As mentioned this morning, Jimmy Carter has strongly endorsed the Racial Anxiety Hypothesis for explaining this summer's townhall/Tea Party protests. Carter's quote:
I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man[.]
The 39th president thus joins a long list that includes Maureen Dowd, Paul Krugman, Frank Rich, and plenty of non-New York Times columnists, too. Some more recent co-signatories:
What does not matter is the sentiment of the people who gathered Saturday in Washington to protest … just about everything, from the national debt to President Obama's push to improve America's health care system. There always is a slice of America that is fearful on its best day and paranoid on its worst day. Add the worst economy in decades, and you have a part of the population ripe for exploitation - in this case by demagogic talk-show hosts and organizations such as FreedomWorks that were opposed to the president anyway.
Those at Saturday's rally lost whatever credibility they might have had by depicting Mr. Obama in protest art flavored with racism.
What we are seeing is the rage of a minority--we don't know exactly how large, but we do know that it is almost entirely white and concentrated in the South and Southwest--at an African-American president who is considered not only wrong in his policies but illegitimate as the leader of our nation. […]
Many Americans spent a good deal of time last November patting themselves on the back for having elected an African-American president. What we are seeing now is the bitterness of an unreconciled minority that will never accept the legitimacy of that election. But of course, none of this has anything to do with race. How could it, in our enlightened society?
What won't stop is the growing hatred toward a young President based on his beliefs and the color of his skin.
It won't stop until he is stopped. That is the goal of the right.
They've done it before.
In the summer months of 1963, the voices of the right were tossing hate bombs at another young President. This time over concerns he was too liberal and his religion was one that frightened a fair number of them, primarily those who lived in the South. There were no Becks, Rushs or Hannitys back then, so the John Birch Society filled the void. They tossed out messages of hate, threats and warnings.
One such warning was for President John F. Kennedy to stay out of Texas.
To stay out of Dallas.
You think what is going on today is harmless? You think it's just people protesting as is their right? You think all the angry talk and the hate speech are just words?
Meanwhile, this column about the media's racism double-standards from John McCain's cranky co-author and alter ego, Mark Salter, is worth pondering:
I'm more than a little familiar with that calumny, having been charged along with other senior members of the McCain campaign and our candidate with the same offense. We were somehow complicit with every intemperate jerk who shouted something obnoxious at any of our campaign events. Our ads about Democratic support for Fannie Mae were racist. Calling candidate Obama a "celebrity" was racist. Shouts of "murderer" or "warmonger" by Obama supporters or our opponent's accusation that Senator McCain was anti immigrant or trying to steal grandma's Medicare went largely unnoticed. And yet it was our candidate who often and publicly denounced crude or outrageous attacks on our opponent. The courtesy was seldom returned. McCain would have fired any staffer who said something or acted in a way that could fairly be described as racist. For his troubles, he was likened by a leading civil rights figure and Obama supporter to the murderers who killed three little African American girls. There was barely a murmur of protest by the press about that injustice.
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Those at Saturday's rally lost whatever credibility they might have had by depicting Mr. Obama in protest art flavored with racism.
So, if every one of hundreds of thousands of protesters lose all credibility because of signs carried by a handful, then I suppose we are hereby cleared to disregard any lefty protest attended by ANSWER or the Socialist Worker's Party or any of the other loony leftists?
One such warning was for President John F. Kennedy to stay out of Texas.
To stay out of Dallas.
The Book Depository museum in Dallas is full of garbage like this. Tons of stuff about right-wing opposition to Kennedy, one small section of a poster about how Oswald was a Communist.
"What we are seeing now is the bitterness of an unreconciled minority that will never accept the legitimacy of that election."
Actually, very few are unable to accept the legitimacy of the election. However protesting the policies of the man has nothing to do with the legitimacy of his holding the office, but what he's doing with it.
Of course, if white people (and I'll allow that most of the protestors are white) say anything negative about the actions of a black president, it's racism? Sounds like kind of a racist attitude if you ask me.
This isn't going to work. My opposition to the president and his policies (and his party) just grows the more as they flail about trying to distract people from the substance of their ridiculous and unpopular agenda.
Either do a Clinton or prepare for minority party status again. This crap will not work. Carter was despised for some of the same reasons, so blaming race is worse than idiotic.
I consider Obama to be a liar because he's a politician. If politicians were a separate race, I guess I could be considered a racist, but I think the mindset required for someone to enter politics can be classified at most as a mental problem, and not as a separate race.
My question is, do you think leftists really believe this nonsense, or do they knowingly use it as a distraction? I'm guessing there are a lot of people who may be sincere, but I think the big opinion makers are lying on purpose.
"Those at Saturday's rally lost whatever credibility they might have had by depicting Mr. Obama in protest art flavored with racism."
I love it when liberal pundits who have no credibility on anything start making proclamations on the credibilty of others.
All this new full court press by the left to scream racism is a sign of desparation. They cannot defeat the opposition on substance. Their strategy always depended on jamming their agenda through as fast as possible before people could get a chance to find out what it was really about. Now that they are getting bogged down, they revert to type and start screeching racism because that's all they've got.
"My question is, do you think leftists really believe this nonsense, or do they knowingly use it as a distraction?"
The leftists I know seem to really buy into it. I know I've had arguments about this same subject.
I think what's happening is that liberals/progressives/whatever we're calling them this week see the situations like this:
Obama's policies will help minorities
-and-
Tea Party protestors oppose Obama's policies
-therefore-
Tea party protestors oppose minorities
I don't know that, but I can see the reasoning. Then, there are those who see it exclusively as a black President with opposition and so it has to be racist opposition.
And some are just not telling anything approaching the truth. There's that too.
I'm not sure that race is the issue, but it's not an unreasonable conclusion to draw. I know that people who read "Reason" are generally opposed to big government, so I wouldn't think that commenters on this thread or writers at Reason are racists for opposing Obama's policies.
But when there was nothing like these protests while Bush took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit, started a senseless war and legitimized torture, then I'm suspicious about the motives of the protesters. Frankly, I think that this isn't race, but rather simply politics -- Republicans supporting their own and protesting the Democrats. Either way, there's pretty clearly something going on besides the principle of "limited government."
I walked through the crowd at one of the first Tea Parties this year. Although I generally agreed with their platform, I couldn't shake the thought that they were protesting Obama more than they were protesting the specific policies.
Reason's only "weapon" in this "battle" is spitballs. You heard me: spitballs.
Calling someone a "racist" is almost always a personal opinion. The way you show that someone's opinions can't be trusted is by busting them when they lie or mislead about facts. Let me know when Reason understands that and lays the groundwork; it'll be a while.
Another group that didn't understand that and probably still doesn't is the incompetent hacks in the McCain campaign. Their response to Dem/MSM "concerns" (as in the troll) about loonies at their campaign events was to capitulate and give the Dems/MSM what they wanted. Of course, that incompetence and capitulation to the far-left shouldn't be a surprise considering that one of McCain's advisors was a former cabinet-level member of the Mexican government.
If anybody knows racism it should be former president Jimmy Carter, the guy who still wants to shove all the Jewish Israelis into the sea, if they don't walk there voluntarily.
Sadly, I think we are witnessing a very steep backslide concerning race. The message of the civil right movement was always, "everyone should be treated equally regardless of race, religion, etc." That sentiment is at the heart of libertarianism (despite what trolls like Tony think). Read H&R for a week and you'll see this, concerning anything from gay marriage to school choice.
In 2009, we are dominated by "indentity politics." People are lumped into groups (black/white/hispanic/gay/female/Muslim). And politicians are pitting these groups against each other. Legislation is debated not on if something is good for the country, but on which group will benefit. The automatic reaction to anything bad that happens is to frame it around these divisions. If a person is murdered, we have to ask the race or religion of the victim and the murderer. If someone opposes the President, we have to ask the race of that person. It is just assumed that every individual acts for the interest of their own group.
[T]he demonstration this weekend and the rhetoric that surround it look and sound much more like the Beer Hall Putsch than the Boston Tea Party.
Wow. An overwhelmingly, undeniably anti-fascist crowd is portrayed by the left as...fascist! The mind reels at the left's idiocy. They are impotent, bereft of ideas, intellectually bankrupt. But (it's important to recognize) they fill a vacuum created in part by the right.
"I couldn't shake the thought that they were protesting Obama more than they were protesting the specific policies."
its fitting since obama was largely elected based on being himself and not any specific policies and his support is based largely on being himself and not any specific actions since he's large been unsuccessful in accomplishing anything from his campaign.
I, too, think there may be a lack of perspective on the part of Mr. Welch and other Reason writers when it comes to the race issue. This blog is written by and for people who oppose what they see as government irresponsibility and intrusion carried out by both Democrats and Republicans, including Obama. These are reasonable people with intelligent arguments. But that doesn't mean a majority of anti-Obama activists are on the same page.
Maybe it's because I live in the deep south (north Louisiana), but I know from first-hand experience that the vast majority of people I've encountered who are concerned about health care reform and the Obama administration's policies in general work from a deeply racist and misinformed base. I've been to my local Tea Party rallies, and I'm not exaggerating when I say most of the chatter there wasn't about unfair taxation or government takeover of private business but was instead about how Obama is a secret Muslim terrorist seeking to subjugate white people. Also, there was a fair amount of joking about how much Michelle Obama resembles a gorilla.
This kind of idiocy is real, and it's a huge part of the wave of protests against Obama. To ignore it or downplay it because it's not in your backyard is foolish, especially since it most adversely affects people trying to make reasonable Libertarian arguments.
But when there was nothing like these protests while Bush took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit, started a senseless war and legitimized torture, then I'm suspicious about the motives of the protesters. Frankly, I think that this isn't race, but rather simply politics -- Republicans supporting their own and protesting the Democrats. Either way, there's pretty clearly something going on besides the principle of "limited government."
I would agree with this, but add that the price tag on the bailouts and stimulus contributed a lot. The Iraq war cost a lot, but I seem to recall it was funded in small chunks, so we never saw $787 billion being spent at once.
I'm getting fucking tired of criticism of Obama being kneejerkingly attributed to racism. When you toss out the racist card what you're doing is admitting you don't wish to debate the isue on it's merits.
Fuck you Jimmy Carter (agriphobia)
Fuck you Maureen Dowd (gingerism)
Fuck you Paul Krugman (anti-semitism)
Fuck you Susan Jacoby(misogyny)
Fuck you Lorenzo Carcaterra (anti-immigrant backlash)
Fuck each and every one of you disingenuos blowhards who claims to have peered into my soul and determined what is motivating me to disagree with Obama's dumbshit policies and hold him in lower esteem almost daily.
This is really starting to fucking piss me off. I sometimes rant, using profanities and obscenities extensively, when arrogant shitheads impugn my motives and are unable to carry on a civil debate.*
Since you dishonest fuckstains listed above started the racist accusation game, here's one right back at ya.
You only allow Rangel to remain uncensured and chairman of the Ways and Means Committtee because he's black. You are assumning that a black man from Harlem is just a well meaning idiot, not smart enough to handle his own goddam finances.
I'm looking at you Nancy Pelosi, goddam cocksucking sanctimonious bitch.
* This is one of those times. Every shit eating lefty thought police wannabe listed above can get down on their knees and rim my royal Americam asshole.
Some morning I'll wake up to find that Jimmy Carter has passed away. And I'll smile a little smile just like I did upon hearing of the passing of Ted Kennedy.
How much of a pass did Bush really get? At the end, people were pretty upset about the bailout. But even with the war and everything else, we never approached the level of spending this administration has proposed. In the first six months! Naturally, around here, we were bitching about Bush's spending spree (seems so quaint, now) back then, too.
With the war, as well, Bush got a honeymoon period from a large number of people because of 9/11. It's easy to ignore that now, but it bought him 3-4 years with a good number of centrists. Obama is doing all of this, claiming that we're all doomed if we don't, but people aren't buying it.
I'm getting fucking tired of criticism of Obama being kneejerkingly attributed to racism.
It's also tiresome to see the knee-jerk "if you think something is racist you are the racist" remarks. It's also tiresome to see the apologists downplay the significant racial aspect to these protests.
There's a reason why there's quite a bit of overlap between tea partiers and birthers. There's a reason why MANY of these people make sure to mention the "Hussein" part of his name. It's also quite telling how these same people never cared one whit while Bush was running up defecits and adding "socialist" entitlements or engaging on some of the worst crony capitalism America has ever seen (Haliburton and its subsidieries are just the easiest example)...but when Obama spends money or tries to change our craptastic health care system, he is destroying America.
Live in denial all you want, but it isn't racist to think that maybe all these pasty white people demanding their country back are at least partly motivated by fear of them not retaining their traditional place at the top.
I would agree with this, but add that the price tag on the bailouts and stimulus contributed a lot. The Iraq war cost a lot, but I seem to recall it was funded in small chunks, so we never saw $787 billion being spent at once
So that makes the hypocrisy ok?
Even if it wasn't at once, the numbers were out there (how many billions per month were being spent was reported quite often) and people knew about the price tag of the war (and if they really are simply interested in reigning in deficits and limiting spending, shouldn't they have made an effort to figure out the the price of the war -- even if it meant adding up each chunk?) These "tax protesting patriots" couldn't have cared less how much money GWB was spending on nation destroying and rebuilding.
"Frankly, I think that this isn't race, but rather simply politics -- Republicans supporting their own and protesting the Democrats. Either way, there's pretty clearly something going on besides the principle of "limited government.""
This is how our modern politics work. The electorate is more concerned with cheering for their team than what actually gets done policy wise. Just as it can be argued where were these protests when Bush did it? - It can also be asked, where are all the left anti-war protests now? Obama has the exact same Iraq plan as Bush did when leaving office and is ramping up Afghanistan with not exit strategy or benchmark for success... sound familiar?
Brian Thompson's post illustrates the article's point exactly:
Brian said the crowd at a Louisiana tea party was racist based on ... hmmm ... actual racist comments made by many in the crowd.
The columnists and pundits lampooned in the article don't bother with such details as actual evidence. It is enough to interpret code words like "consitution". When you don't have code words, you just imagine racist language being appended to what was actually said.
Before the kids stopped by, Kevin said: We are heading into some dangerous territory.
Indeed. And, sites like this are acting as TourGuides for one of the groups. (The Dems and GOP are TourGuides for much larger groups).
All those TourGuides support far-left concepts, whether they admit it or not. For instance, instead of exposing the SPLC, Reason links to them approvingly. Instead of opposing race-based calls for MassiveImmigration, Reason has endlessly promoted them (by calling opponents of MassiveImmigration names just as much as the NCLR does).
It all basically comes down to intelligence and integrity, and, well...
I must admit I feel a little foolish now. Back when people were protesting democracy in Iraq, a lot of rightwing types said that all those people in those big demonstrations where just a bunch on anti-Americans and communist. I said, no, most protestors were reasonably mainstream Americans and that we couldn't judge an entire movement on the basis of few extremist even if those extremist played a key role in organizing the rally.
Apparently, I am wrong. Apparently, we are to judge the millions of people within a movement by their most extreme elements. So, now we can all say in good conscious that everyone who opposed the liberation of Iraq only did so because of their deep and abiding hatred of America.
"This blog is written by and for people who oppose what they see as government irresponsibility and intrusion carried out by both Democrats and Republicans, including Obama. These are reasonable people with intelligent arguments."
When the Tea Party has their rallies, people turn back the covers and find racists hiding behind their protest signs, depite the fact that the majority of those at the rally aren't racist and reject any racist message.
When the left had their anti-war rallies, they inherently rejected America itself, and you didn't have to turn back any covers to find extreme anti-American viewpoints that wished death and destruction of the entire country and its leaders.
Yet according to the media and Jimmy Cahtah, The tea parties are racists, and the anti-war protests were patriotic.
Live in denial all you want, but it isn't racist to think that maybe all these pasty white people demanding their country back are at least partly motivated by fear of them not retaining their traditional place at the top.
For a tangible example of Reason not holding the line against the far-left, I just checked and they've never once mentioned this.
I mean, come on, it's still right there on his site:
my.barackobama.com/page/content/eahome
In fact, as with something else that could have been extremely effective against him that was right on his site, I'm the only person who picked up on it.
P.S. In case anyone replies to this, their responses will almost assuredly be ad homs, thereby conceding my points and showing the childish, anti-intellectual nature of libertarians.
Quite a bit of a pass. I mean 9/11 happened on his fucking watch (more than 9 months after taking office) while he was getting memos saying Bin Laden determined to attack the US and intelligence agencies and the FAA were aware of the potential to use planes as weapons.
I think that right there is a pretty big pass. He also had a lapdog press that downplayed the anti-war movement and covered them like they were just a bunch of deranged peace-nicks (an anti-war movement that dwarfed the current tea party movement -- yet the tea party loons get a ton of positive press and are treated as something other than batshit crazy) because they were caught up in war fever post 9/11.
But even with the war and everything else, we never approached the level of spending this administration has proposed
So let's ignore that the economy went to shit as Bush left office, and pretend like their circumstances were exactly the same.
You can disagree with the concept of spending your way out of a recession, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a legitimate course of action.
Obama felt he had to spend to get the economy on track...an economy ruined by Rands most famous disciple Alan Greenspan.
Their situations weren't really the same were they? But let's pretend they were. Cuz Obama is a liberal and facts don't matter when you are attacking liberals.
Define "overwhelming majority".
IMHO that's in the neighborhood of two thirds.
It is also disingenous bullshit hyperbole used to discredit opponents.
There are terrorists against the war in Iraq. There are anti-semites opposing aid to Israel. There are socialists supporting more government intervention in health care. There are communists opposed to prayer in the public schools. And it goes on and on and on and on ...
P.S. In case anyone replies to this, their responses will almost assuredly be ad homs, thereby conceding my points and showing the childish, anti-intellectual nature of libertarians
The part of Jamie Kelly will be played by J sub D.
"Live in denial all you want, but it isn't racist to think that maybe all these pasty white people demanding their country back are at least partly motivated by fear of them not retaining their traditional place at the top."
Yeah, all of those privileged tea partiers, in their monacles, spats, and top hats. You're not sticking with the script, Tom -- you're supposed to be portraying them as knuckle-dragging rednecks, no doubt driving to their events by the pickup truck-load from the trailer park.
Ah, the Deep South, where, after watching Cannonball Run, break up into discussion groups afterwards to talk about Dom DeLuise as a reoccurring Christ figure....
"But when there was nothing like these protests while Bush took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit, started a senseless war and legitimized torture, then I'm suspicious about the motives of the protesters."
Yessir! No one ever protested the war during the Bush administration!
"I've been to my local Tea Party rallies, and I'm not exaggerating when I say most of the chatter there wasn't about unfair taxation or government takeover of private business but was instead about how Obama is a secret Muslim terrorist seeking to subjugate white people. Also, there was a fair amount of joking about how much Michelle Obama resembles a gorilla."
He also had a lapdog press that downplayed the anti-war movement and covered them like they were just a bunch of deranged peace-nicks
No, they were PATRIOTIC. Remember? Dissent is patriotic! Tea parties are RACIST. Marxists who pass out pamphlets calling for the end of capitalism and openly calling for the assassination of our president were PATRIOTIC.
"Brian said the crowd at a Louisiana tea party was racist based on ... hmmm ... actual racist comments made by many in the crowd."
Look, as I said I love Lake Bruin. And I have spent a great deal of time in Louisiana. And yes, there are an amazing number of overtly racist folks down there. It's stunning really. But then so are the bayous and Grand Isle, which is why I go there. Oh, and the food too.
They were racist before Obama (in '97 there were ubiquitous "Duke Country" posters around Breaux Bridge high up on the telephone poles.
But here's the thing, Mr. Thompson (and The Extispicator) don't pain my northern ass with your racist southern brush. It's as foolish as claiming that because there are alligators in LA rivers, then there are alligators in all the rivers of America. It's just stupid.
Come on. I don't blame Bush for 9/11, nor do most people. I blame al Qaeda. The U.S. in general took a rather lackadaisical approach to potential attacks on U.S. soil, mostly because we figured no one would be stupid enough to attack us here. The Clinton administration could be more fairly criticized, since a lot of the build up to 9/11 (including other attacks) happened back then, but I don't think that's fair either. In hindsight, a lot could've been done better.
As for the economy, what did Bush have to do with the recession? It's a cycle. The financial services crash wasn't anything he could've done much about. Presidents can certainly hurt the economy, but they have little to do with the economic cycle in general.
There has been so much deceit and misdirection from this government that I'm surprised you're so willing to back it. The stimulus wasn't at all intended to help the economy, it was fulfilling a wishlist of spending programs that couldn't get passed previously. Witness the fact that most of it hasn't been spent even now, when we're showing signs of a partial recovery. Personally, I think the growing lack of confidence in the government likely has hampered the recovery, if anything.
This is a bad president and a worse Congress. Period. And since he's preserving much of the badness from his predecessor, this president may end up being worse than Bush. I sure hope not, but he's trying really hard.
"Obama felt he had to spend to get the economy on track...an economy ruined by Rands most famous disciple Alan Greenspan.
Their situations weren't really the same were they? "
Bush inherited the dotcom bust and then watched the economy take a trillion dollar hit thanks to 9-11. That is not quite the banking crisis that happened last summer but it was pretty big. The DOW and the NASDAQ both tanked big time and a lot of people were wiped out.
Bush responded by cutting taxes and letting people keep more of what was theirs. Obama responded to his crisis by letting Pelosi and Reid pass a stimulus bill that was insane even by Keynesian standards.
It is not so much that Obama has ballooned the deficit. You are correct in saying that because of the recession any President would have big deficits right now. The problem is that Obama has ballooned the deficit in ways that do nothing for economy. Worse than that, he hasn't lowered taxes or done anything to create incentives for investment. On top of that he is fighting about healthcare and cap and theft, both of which are likly to radically change the business environment, which is creating uncertainly and further destroying investment.
Yes, Obama inherited a recession. But, he has done absolutely nothing to combat it.
"But when there was nothing like these protests while Bush took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit, started a senseless war and legitimized torture, then I'm suspicious about the motives of the protesters"
This is such a line of horseshit. Last I looked Republicans lost control of Congress in 2006 because people were pissed about the spending and corrpution. Then in 2008, they kicked more Republicans out of Congress and gave the reins to McHopey.
McHopey and Congress are stealing even more money and are even more corrupt than the Republicans were. And not surprisingly people are pissed off about it only to be told that they have no right to be mad since Bush did it to. Yes, Bush did it to and saw his party get kicked out of office for it. And that is exactly what is going to happen to the Dems.
I haven't been hypocritical in the least so your bullshit accusation rings hollow.
So your description of the TEA protests have been honest? Really?
Live in denial all you want, but it isn't racist to think that maybe all these pasty white people demanding their country back are at least partly motivated by fear of them not retaining their traditional place at the top.
Maybe all the TEA protectors are racists? Motivated by racism? That's your fucking hypocrisy. And don't fig leaf behind "partially motivated" because no one your side would accept "Oh, he's just partially racist, the rest of him is A-OK."
joe slunk off with his tail between his legs, but you went fucking insane.
Jimmy Carter used the term overwhelming majority. Will you go on record saying he's full of shit? Since four is "more than a few" I'll agree with you there. More than a few Communists are against prayer in public schools as well. So fucking what?
What would be your guess of the percentage of people who think realize Obama regularly lies to the American public are racists who think he was born in Indonesia, Kenya or the Falklands?
And for the record, my experience in Southwest Georgia at tea parties had not a hint of racism, so the previously mentioned experience could easily be counted as the "fringes" since multiple tea parties in Georgia haven't delivered similar accounts of racism and idiocy (which is a huge chunk of what that story contains).
In this incident with Congressman Joe Wilson speaking out of turn and Jimmy Carter trying to play the race card by stating it's about racism in America.
As God is my witness folks get this through your heads, the Elitists are working hard to play this as the race card! In effort to get us taring at each other's throats - divide and conquer!
No, this thing with President Barack Obama has nothing to do with race, many of us have grown up with all kinds of races outside our front and back doors - that is America and we have for quite some time been able to see the quality in all races! We have been best friends with people of other races and cultures in our day to day lives!
The thing that causes Americans to dislike and not trust or respect President Obama is his Fascist, Marxist style of politics along with his habitual habit of lieing! From the day Americans are born we were taught to dislike any form of communism or oppression of society! Now we have it practicing it's politics in our own back yard!
Not something that will fly in the "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave!"
Charlie Sheen is offering a Live debate on the "Larry King", show with any Government Rep or Reps in lieu with his 20 questions that he has requested sensible answers for from President Barack Obama!
Charlie has had no takers for the debate challenge so what does that tell us? 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! http://www.infowars.com
What won't stop is the growing hatred toward a young President based on his beliefs and the color of his skin.
Political beliefs =/= color of skin
Tell you what, though, let's test this racism hypothesis -- have Obama resign and see if anyone is still protesting when Biden does the same stupid stuff.
It is all about there being a black President. Because no one ever had any crazy conspiracy theories or kooky hatred of Clinton or Bush. Right Tom? These kooks never were around when there was a white man in office.
Tell you what, though, let's test this racism hypothesis -- have Obama resign and see if anyone is still protesting when Biden does the same stupid stuff.
"Overwhelming portion" implies majority, therefore "overwhelming majority" is redundant at best.
A better weasel would have been "intensely demonstrated animosity," thereby saying he was only talking about the people mad enough to march and wave signs.
But since your media outlets have defined all the protesters as violent nutbags, then that does not really work either.
God that show was awful, even as 70s sitcoms went. It ranked right up there with "Enos" and "The Misadventures of Sheriff Lobo". Not that I didn't watch it...
joe slunk off with his tail between his legs, but you went fucking insane.
Awesome
Still i am pretty sure Joe is somewhere being just as insane as ChicogoTom...probably convinced that the time he spent here was in the company of full blown KKK members.
For the more conspiracy minded....did anyone else notice that joe left at about the same time Wagel did?
"What we are seeing now is the bitterness of an unreconciled minority that will never accept the legitimacy of that election."
That is just comedy gold. All those "selected President" bumber stickers after 2000 didn't seem to create much of a problem. I think the Republic will survive this.
Tell you what, though, let's test this racism hypothesis -- have Obama resign and see if anyone is still protesting when Biden does the same stupid stuff.
I'd be behind this without reservation. I know Joe is nuts, but I suspect his version is significantly less harmful than the version we're facing right now.
I didn't intend to paint all northerners with my southern racism brush. I only intended to point out that the number of racists from both the north and the south involved in TEA protests and associated rallies should only be brushed off at the peril of honest discussion. It's foolish for liberals to claim the number of nutjobs in their ranks is insignificant, and it's just as foolish for people with genuine gripes against Obama to downplay the number of nutjobs in their ranks.
Maybe some people have been playing the race issue to avoid real debate, but my argument is that the race issue is deserving of real discussion. Anyone with reasonable concerns about Obama and our current Democratic congress should be willing to recognize and deal with the worst of his ideological brethren instead of pretending they don't exist.
On another note: since you have first-hand knowledge of the overt racism down here, you probably also won't be surprised that our racists are not above writing letters to the editor about how they're tired of being called racists by "libs". In their minds, they aren't so much racist as upset. They just happen to be upset mostly about black people.
"Biden would be a hilariously goofy President. Throwing a bean ball as the opening pitch at the Little League Championships sort of goofy."
Very true. Biden is dumb as a post and goofy as hell. But, he would have the advantage of at least giving us a President with whom you might want to someday meet. OBama is just grim and grating.
Tell you what, though, let's test this racism hypothesis -- have Obama resign and see if anyone is still protesting when Biden does the same stupid stuff.
Ummm....i am sorry i can't go along with this...Obama sucks but Biden is bat shit in-fucking-sane. I do not want that guy to have the codes.
The difference between a simple majority and an "overwhelming majority" is the same as the difference between a victory and a landslide. "Overwhelming" implies a matter of degree. There's no redundancy. Cliche, maybe, but not redundant. But then again, so is using the phrase "at best".
I don't think Obama would be that bad in person. He strikes me as the sort of man that results when a boy is raised primarily by women. They reward seriousness and "good-boyism" way too much. I bet you get him out with the boys and a few beers in him and he'd be fine to shoot the shit with.
"I don't think Obama would be that bad in person. He strikes me as the sort of man that results when a boy is raised primarily by women. They reward seriousness and "good-boyism" way too much. I bet you get him out with the boys and a few beers in him and he'd be fine to shoot the shit with."
That is how I always viewed Clinton. Obama seems like such a schoolmarm. A lot like Carter that way. But maybe if you played baskeetball with him and didn't talk politics he would be okay.
Really, the smartest think Obama could have done would have pulled a Nixon and walked out on the mall and talked to the 9-12 marchers. It would have totally taken the wind out of their sails and made him look like a great guy. I would have been brilliant.
Will the President have a West/Swift beer summit soon? What would Kanye drink? I assume that Swift would have like, a Bacardi O3 or, if she's a big girl now, a Natty or something. I mean, she does sing country.
"Overwhelming portion" is more than a simple 50.1% limp over the finish line. Do you have the overwhelming portion of a chicken if we split it down the middle but I give you my near-meatless wing?
"Overwhelming portion" is at least 2/3 or 3/4, i.e. a supermajority. A supermajority being described as an "overwhelming majority" is barely redundant, I was just trying to be nice.
And neither "overwhelming majority" or "at best" are cliches, but maybe over-common figures of speech.
This guy Capeheart from the WaPo was just on MSNBC (Ezra Klein wasn't available? No, he was available, he just wasn't black.)
He says roughly "again I want to say that, yes, there are some shrill voices in the extreme among those protesters who are motivated by something else."
By that standard I think there are some in the front row of the DNC in Denver who "were motivated by America-hatred."
And the Thomas-Franks-style condescension. These crackers are so stupid and ignorant (meaning they think nigras are stupid and ignorant) that they let racist memes and hatreds confuse them as to which side their bread is buttered on. If only they were smarter they would support Obama and learn to love the government.
Maybe all the TEA protectors are racists? Motivated by racism? That's your fucking hypocrisy. And don't fig leaf behind "partially motivated" because no one your side would accept "Oh, he's just partially racist, the rest of him is A-OK."
I absolutely believe that if this were a white president proposing the same things these people wouldn't get off their asses and protest. Just like they didn't care when Bush was pushing Medicare Part D without proposing how to pay for it. I absolutely believe that the fact that Obama is black and has the middle name Hussein fuels the flames.
Race may not be the only motivation, but it does seem to have a significant impact on what's going on. And it isn't limited to just a handful of the fringe as you dishonest fuckers keep trying to make people believe.
But it isn't surprising. Libertarians love to peddle the delusion that we live in a post racial America.
joe slunk off with his tail between his legs, but you went fucking insane.
Pot meet kettle. You fucking glibertarians scream out socialism and communism any time someone wants to fix something that your beloved corrupt capitalism is failing at, and I'm the crazy one? Uh huh.
The financial sector was robbing people blind and destroying our economy with their high risk gambles and the only outrage you whackjobs could muster was when the government, who were now bailing out the financial institutions and keeping them alive, tried to limit compensation to the people that got us into this mess. OH and you wanted even less regulation.
It's like you idiots believe that if a boat has a hole and is taking in water, the solution is to drill another hole in the boat so the water can escape.
Because no one ever had any crazy conspiracy theories or kooky hatred of Clinton or Bush
Sure -- you righty loons have had tons of conspiracy theories for Clinton. He was a serial rapist, he killed Vince Foster, etc.
But none of them were about him being an illegitimate president nor were they about him being a secret manchurian president. Those have been reserved for the black man with the middle name Hussein.
But to that that racism has any part of that is just plain crazy -- that's what you retards want others to believe.
You fucking glibertarians scream out socialism and communism any time someone wants to fix something that your beloved corrupt capitalism is failing at, and I'm the crazy one? Uh huh.
Dude, seriously?
Libertarians love to peddle the delusion that we live in a post racial America.
Based on ancdotal evidence and personal experience, most people really aren't racist.
I'd rather have Obama than Biden, although the gap has narrowed based on seeing what Obama has done in practice compared to his rhetoric. Chosing Biden for VP (and telecom immunity) were the warnings that Obama was going to be a huge disaster in terms of delivering any actual reform of executive power. I think Reid slightly outdoes him as the distiliation of everything that's wrong with the modern Democratic party into a single individual, but Biden's a close second.
You fucking glibertarians scream out socialism and communism any time someone wants to fix something that your beloved corrupt capitalism is failing at, and I'm the crazy one?
Yes. Yes, you are. You've reached Tony levels of disingenuous bullshit.
Oh, and Brian Thompson? "Glibertarians." There's your cliche.
Tell you what, though, let's test this racism hypothesis -- have Obama resign and see if anyone is still protesting when Biden does the same stupid stuff.
Ha, nice try, racist. Just another way to get rid of the black man.
The financial sector was robbing people blind and destroying our economy with their high risk gambles
Fanny May and Freddy Mac?
Your argument would have an ounce of credibility if you could actually produce a democrat who was opposed to what Wall Street was doing before the bubble burst...furthermore it would have more credibility if Obama's treasury department and FED was not filled with poeple who were working at wall street when the bubble did burst.
You fucking glibertarians scream out socialism and communism any time someone wants to fix something that your beloved corrupt capitalism is failing at, and I'm the crazy one?
You're wrong. We completely support the socialism and communism that's proposed by white politicians. We're only opposing it when Obama proposes it because we're racists.
He also had a lapdog press that downplayed the anti-war movement and covered them like they were just a bunch of deranged peace-nicks (an anti-war movement that dwarfed the current tea party movement -- yet the tea party loons get a ton of positive press and are treated as something other than batshit crazy
Really? Despite all those links up there demonstrating that the press treats the current protesters like they're "batshit crazy?" Even I gave you Fox News, what about the rest of the media?
Sure, Republicans gave Bush more of a pass because he was a Republican than they would if he were a Democrat. Partisan politics and group belonging is stupid that way. It didn't help that Democrats weren't calling for less spending, but rather arguing that Bush still wasn't spending enough or was cutting Medicare too much, etc, but they still did give him more of a pass.
You could just as equally argue that "Democrats aren't allowed to oppose the Iraq War, because they didn't oppose Bosnia and Kosovo when it was a Democratic President calling for those interventions." Sorry, any fine distinctions between the cases we'll ignore, including distinctions of size. War is war.
But the people that Reason interviewed were certainly upset with Bush.
The financial sector was robbing people blind and destroying our economy with their high risk gambles and the only outrage you whackjobs could muster was when the government, who were now bailing out the financial institutions and keeping them alive, tried to limit compensation to the people that got us into this mess
No, Reason complained about the bailouts to the financial institutions. Obama supported the bailouts, just like he supported every bailout.
But you are at least as hypocritical as the imaginary protesters you haven't met. Obama can continue Bush's policies.
"Just like they didn't care when Bush was pushing Medicare Part D without proposing how to pay for it. I absolutely believe that the fact that Obama is black and has the middle name Hussein fuels the flames. "
1. Part D, is about 1/10th of the size of Obamacare. It also didn't affect very many people. Obamacare totally changes the way everyone's insurance opeartes in this country. You can't compare one to the other.
2. People were pissed off about Bush's spending. Maybe you missed it, but the Republicans got voted out of office in 2006 and 2008. If no one cared about Bush's spending, then how the hell did Obama get elected in the first place?
"But none of them were about him being an illegitimate president nor were they about him being a secret manchurian president. Those have been reserved for the black man with the middle name Hussein."
Oh that is fucking laughable. They just thought that Clinton's wife killed Vince Foster and that he was selling drugs in Mena Arkansas and that Bush allowed 9-11 to happen and invaded Afghanistan in order to get a pipeline deal and invaded Iraq in order to make Halliburton rich..
You are just being a douschbag Tom. You don't even believe this shit.
" I think Reid slightly outdoes him as the distiliation of everything that's wrong with the modern Democratic party into a single individual, but Biden's a close second."
Will the President have a West/Swift beer summit soon? What would Kanye drink? I assume that Swift would have like, a Bacardi O3 or, if she's a big girl now, a Natty or something. I mean, she does sing country.
She's 19 years old. Thanks to Liddy Dole, she's not allowed to drink anything.
As has been said earlier, we voted out republicans that pissed us off. Many, Many of us called congress critters to complain about the direction things were going, and about specific misguided legislation. Just because there weren't many of us out on the street, doesn't mean we weren't upset, and doing something about it. Remember, we aren't the protesting sort. The fact that so many have hit the streets really says something.
Additionally, on the racism front, anecdotally, I didn't see a single sign, or hear a single comment that I'd classify as racist. Maybe being St. Louis, it's different. I don't know. However, the constant claims of racism do in fact block actual reasonable debate on the issues. Claiming that it is an issue that needs to be discussed is simply attempting to legitimize this obstructionism.
Riding out of DC on the Metro, 9/12, there were some folks from South Dakota and also another Mid-West state I can't recall in the same Metro car. We were talking, nothing special, really - politics, of course.
In the back were maybe ten or so black kids taking up that section of the car. There was no confrontation, just one or two of them talking loudly enough to make sure they'd be heard.
Without resorting to the poor diction it was along the lines of, these are the people who think Obama is the anti-Christ. That McCain he wasn't chit. Obama's going to be president as long as he wants, so these people better get used to it, etc. It went on but not really to a level that was so loud, or so confrontational that it needed to be addressed.
We just ignored them without much trouble at all.
Yeah, they were technically thugs. But the reality was they were still wannabes really, pretty young, not that big, or many. And if the several adults there for 9/12 actually needed to do something about it, the kids wouldn't have lasted very long.
So just so we are clear....talking loudly about how Obama will be allowed to serve out his term and seek re-election makes you a thug. Carrying pictures of Obama with a Hitler mustache, bringing guns to town halls, and contemplating beating up children on the subway makes you a patriot.
Other than the fact that they were black youths, what exactly made them "thugs" ??
The racist claim is going to totally screw the Dems. A lot of independents voted for Obama because they thought he was going to a centrist like Clinton and they thought it would help race relations to have a black President. Running around breaking the bank and calling everyone who disagrees a racist is not what people bargined for.
You are insane and you can't read no good neither.
"Obama's going to be president as long as he wants, so these people better get used to it, etc." does not equal "serve out his term." It equals dictatorship.
"I recall very similar levels of anger by "the right" aimed at Bill Clinton when he was Prez. That the right does not like the left is not news."
Yes. Doesn't anyone remember the 90s? People on the right hated Clinton. It was called Clinton derrangement syndrome. For better or worse, the party out of power usually hates the President. Go back and read what people said about Roosevelt, Kennedy or Nixon sometime. It makes what they are saying about Obama seem pretty tame.
I don't doubt that racism plays a big role in a good chunk of the anti-Obama crowd, but a lot of it is policy disputes. All this stuff started happening when Obama proposed what he himself admits are some pretty radical changes to an important issue for most Americans.
ooh, ooh, MNG, I'm smelling a logical fallacy in ChicagoTom's rantings. I cannot decide if it's hasty generalization or the fallacy of composition. Can you help me, O Wise One?
John
I agree. I think the Dems should stop complaining about the fact that many people in America oppose what they want to do. Fucking duh, that's how two party politics works! It's making them seem pretty whiny imo...
"I agree. I think the Dems should stop complaining about the fact that many people in America oppose what they want to do. Fucking duh, that's how two party politics works! It's making them seem pretty whiny imo..."
If obama would come out and tell his own supporters to shut up about racism, it would go a long way. Say that he disagrees with the 9-12 marchers, but he understands their concerns and that we need to move beyond race and stop calling each other racists and other over the top things. It would be great.
"if this were a white president proposing the same things these people wouldn't get off their asses and protest"
Yeah, that's stupid. He's proposing a big government program. A shitload of people are strongly opposed to big government programs. They are going to strongly oppose that kind thing. I mean, people who say things like this have been in a cave since 1980 I guess.
I don't think it would help you to identify the fallacy since you seem to not understand the basic nature of what logical fallacies are and mean. As I explained they are not Harry Potter-esque incantations that prove assertions and arguments are fatally defective, but indicators that the assertions/arguments are not, by themselves, 100% conclusive.
I absolutely believe that if this were a white president proposing the same things these people wouldn't get off their asses and protest. Just like they didn't care when Bush was pushing Medicare Part D without proposing how to pay for it.
But Obama *is* a white president (that is, as much white as he is black).
Dems screaming racism is only going to play badly.
I don't think so. I think it's a fine strategy. Who are they really making angry about it? People who probably weren't on their side in the first place. If the circus freaks in the GOP manage to take back Congress, then they have it made. All failures can be their fault.
My prediction is that as hideous hybrid plan will be passed, a sop to insurance companies like mandated coverage and a dribble to the single-payer advocates like high floors for subsidization of the mandated coverage. The Dems have done something about healthcare; the GOP has stopped socialized medicine. Yay, America!
It will be an utter failure because it does nothing to get at the underlying causes of the spiraling costs (the 3rd party payer problem) and insurance companies with start doing everything in their power (i.e. use the government when people stop looking) to fuck people over because of poor risks eating into their profits.
A lot of conservative pundits were pissed at Bush's prescription drug program. But you can see why it did not engender marches and such, it was just about meds for old people. Obama is talking about possibly changing everyone's health care. There's a big difference there!
"Other than the fact that they were black youths, what exactly made them "thugs" ??"
We'd need to see pictures in order to make that determination. But maybe they were wearing Larry Hoover shirts or something. Why don't you ask Dan Reihl instead of us, as he was actually there, dipshit.
SF
I think they will make independents angry, or at least unsettled, by all this bitching. Remember Obama tried to stay away from the all the racism stuff when he ran. There was a reason for that. Americans are tired of that Jesse Jackson shit.
SF - it's going to backfire. If you want to foster resentment in white people very quickly, call them racist no matter what they do. What this reckless use of the "R" word does is that it allows actually racism to go unnoticed. Boy Who Cried Wolf and all that.
But none of them were about him being an illegitimate president nor were they about him being a secret manchurian president. Those have been reserved for the black man with the middle name Hussein.
I recall quite a bit about how Bush was an illegitimate president. (Too bad those claims were undercut when the Miami Herald actually did a complete recount of the Florida ballots, and found that, under any set of counting rules that had actually been proposed in November-December 2000, Bush won if those rules were applied consistently.)
It's like you idiots believe that if a boat has a hole and is taking in water, the solution is to drill another hole in the boat so the water can escape.
Given the proper hull design and conditions, this actually works.
Will the President have a West/Swift beer summit soon? What would Kanye drink? I assume that Swift would have like, a Bacardi O3 or, if she's a big girl now, a Natty or something. I mean, she does sing country.
She's 19 years old. Thanks to Liddy Dole, she's not allowed to drink anything.
She could snort some coke. Might as well get hung for stealing a sheep as a for stealing a lamb.
"But none of them were about him being an illegitimate president nor were they about him being a secret manchurian president."
Dude, do you not remember the past few decades? Bill Clinton was accused of having Vince Foster murdered, remember? George Bush was accused of knowing about and allowing 9/11...This is hardly remarkable stuff...The illegitimate meme was just one that was more available in regards to Obama because his dad was a furriner and his name is funny, and he did live outside of the US for a chunk of his childhood.
I rarely hope I'm wrong, but I do in this case. The problem is that "racism" has become so toxic (as it should be) that even getting it splashed on you makes you a leper.
I agree, of course, about the diluting of racism.
It's funny: Most of the people who get maddest at being called a racist are probably not racists.
There was actually at lot of "Clinton isn't legitimate because he didn't have over 50% of the vote" stuff too. Bush I is the last President I can't remember any "illegitimate election" talk about.
I don't think the President could control this stuff, liberals don't actually get daily directions from the White House...Many liberals just can't help themselves in this area, they just gotta cry racism sometimes!
There may not have been the illegitmate meme explicitly with Bush I but there was all this kind of "he cheated" stuff over things like the Willie Horton ad.
Especially when it's so plainly obvious that much of the hysteria is racially motivated. But I'd be willing to offer a truce: I'll stop playing the race card if conservative whites stop playing it with regard to Obama, Sotomayor, and practically every other prominent person of color.
I don't think the President could control this stuff, liberals don't actually get daily directions from the White House
Dude, yeah right. I guarantee you that falling back on the "R" word was the plan from Rahm from day one of the President's candidacy. You know how it isn't really a coincidence that all right-wingers have the same line on the same day? So too with leftist pundits.
Is that the worst PR photo op of all time? I'm sure more damaging unposed and paparazzi shots exist (Donna Rice for one), but surely not deliberate ones.
I don't think the President could control this stuff, liberals don't actually get daily directions from the White House...Many liberals just can't help themselves in this area, they just gotta cry racism sometimes!
I would agree that this probably isn't coming from Obama or from his inner white house circle...he is a smarter political actor then that. Still this feels like a concerted effort. From the looks of it it is coming from the B squad who probably don't have good polling numbers or good political annalists. Krugman and Carter being on board would seem to support this.
Is the "everyone is racist" meme a grass roots counter campaign or is it astro turf?
You know what? I bet some of the Democratic leadership backed Obama precisely because they thought he'd be coated with racial Teflon when he and Congress started pushing a radical agenda without modern precedent. Is that racism? Is the race card a shield or a sword?
About Sotomayor. . .didn't she open the door to claims of irrational bias with her comments and opinions that seem motivated strictly by identity politics? I'm not sure one can discount her opposition as strictly sexist, racist, or whatever. My absolute first choice for the Supreme Court is a black woman. 'Cause I like her limited government viewpoints. Bet virtually all libertarians and a large number of Republicans would agree.
Where was all the Republican condemnation of Condoleezza Rice's appointment to SoS? She was a black female, right? Someone who all Republicans secretly want to enslave and strip of the vote?
Cause Obama and Sotomayor were so qualified for their positions as to make the question of race unjustified.
It was sufficiently clear that in both cases race played a positive role in getting them to where they are. Pointing that out doesn't make one a racist, unless viewed from a racist liberals perspective.
Is the "everyone is racist" meme a grass roots counter campaign or is it astro turf?
I think it's liberals, who tend to be sensitive (often oversensitive) to race issues, trying to explain the motivation behind protesters who are so painfully ignorant of the facts behind what they're protesting.
Is the "everyone is racist" meme a grass roots counter campaign or is it astro turf?
Neither. Being aware of racism (good thing) became looking for racism (neutral thing) and if you look for something hard enough you'll find it (bad thing.) It's really just the unintended consequence of stamping out most acts of racism, the stamping felt so good that moved on to trying to suppress racist thoughts.
A Clockwork Orange is the most important book of our time for understanding the right and left extremes in America. It's not enough to act correctly, you have to think correctly.
Plus we've seen this show before. If there's a way to get southern conservative whites fired up the likes of Dick Armey and Karl Rove aren't going to refuse to do it no matter how tasteless. The conventional narrative of the 2004 election is that Kerry lost because Bush was able to get enough die-hards out to vote against the existential threat posed by the gays. The story, to me, is not so much that there's a vast army of KKK devotees, but a large number of southern white conservatives who are able to be strongly motivated by the threat of the "other" and a GOP machine that has been using this strategy for 40 years.
You know what? I bet some of the Democratic leadership backed Obama precisely because they thought he'd be coated with racial Teflon when he and Congress started pushing a radical agenda without modern precedent. Is that racism? Is the race card a shield or a sword?
I was just thinking that a little while ago, but also, they would've had a similar situation with Hillary Clinton. "You're just opposing her because she's a WOMAN! Misogynist!"
Plus we've seen this show before. If there's a way to get southern conservative whites fired up the likes of Dick Armey and Karl Rove aren't going to refuse to do it no matter how tasteless. The conventional narrative of the 2004 election is that Kerry lost because Bush was able to get enough die-hards out to vote against the existential threat posed by the gays. The story, to me, is not so much that there's a vast army of KKK devotees, but a large number of southern white conservatives who are able to be strongly motivated by the threat of the "other" and a GOP machine that has been using this strategy for 40 years. [citation needed}
The "Southern White Conservative" is actually the liberal version of the "other". Proof? The fact that the protestors were not solely, or even majorly, made up of Southern White Conservatives.
Where was all the Republican condemnation of Condoleezza Rice's appointment to SoS? She was a black female, right? Someone who all Republicans secretly want to enslave and strip of the vote?
I secretly wanted her to enslave me. But I'm not a Republican, so I guess I don't count in that regard.
I don't know. Maybe Kerry was stupider because he should have known better from Dukakis' example, but pioneers in stupidity are also pretty special. Kerry just showed himself as a dork, something we already knew. Dukakis' main weakness was Cold War military authority, something he proved lacked in that silly picture.
Sort of the difference between diving into the shallow end and diving into a completely empty pool.
Well to give Tony some credit he is a lefty who is simply calling the protesters ignorant rather then calling them racists.
That is progress. I actually feel sorry for Tony. The back lash from the "racist" meme is going to be severe and will hurt his position even though he did not spread the meme.
"The conventional narrative of the 2004 election is that Kerry lost because Bush was able to get enough die-hards out to vote against the existential threat posed by the gays."
"In American politics, the Southern strategy refers to a purported Republican method of winning Southern states in the latter decades of the 20th century and first decade of the 21st century by exploiting opposition among the conservative South to the cultural upheaval of New Left, Vietnam protests, and the Hippie culture. Some analysts think widespread demographic shifts and the election of Barack Obama as president in 2008 are signs that the Southern strategy is declining in significance."
Notice the word in bold type?
Per Dictionary.com
-adjective
reputed or claimed; alleged: We saw no evidence of his purported wealth.
Now, you link to a site that says it was claimed, and THAT is your citation? Dude, you need to really rethink that strategy.
The "Southern White Conservative" is actually the liberal version of the "other". Proof? The fact that the protestors were not solely, or even majorly, made up of Southern White Conservatives.
Are you one of the ones claiming there were literally gazillions and billions of teabaggers present? How do you know who made up the majority? All I saw were a bunch of honkies.
I believe that is referring to all of the ballot initiatives regarding the banning of gay marriage. The idea was to get social conservatives out en masse to vote on them, and also vote (R) while in the ballot booth.
I hate to sort of agree with Tony troll but here goes.
Yes, many (most?) of the taxpayer protesters are ignorant. I go to protests to pick up women (it's a meat market guys!). There all populated by ignorant people, left or right.
I think a major factor in the hysteria on both sides is that some people build their identity around who their political opponents are.
In addition to the knee jerk support/opposition to the policies even when "their side" was exposing the same thing mere months ago, their sense of self becomes wrapped up in their contempt for the other side - their ability to see themselves as good people becomes linked to seeing their "enemy" as consisting of bad people. The eviler and more powerful their foe is, the more righteous and courageous they are for standing up to them. Thus, they develop a very powerful psychological need to have enemies and for those enemies to be powerful and evil, since their own self worth is derived from their opposition to them. They'll believe nearly anything negative said about their foe since it isn't just an insult to their foe, it's a complement to them. It's the neurotic love child of fear of The Other and comfirmation bias and the bread and butter of organized politics.
why doesn't Obama just resign? It would defuse all the racism and everyone would go along with Joe Biden because he's white and we could have single payer tomorrow.
Keep doing what you are doing Chi-com Tom. Find all those racist under every rock. Expose them. Don't stop now when you are just building some momentum on that train. It's important that you yell it out as shrill as you can until you get horse, as loudly, in as public a forum as you can. By God, my party may just have a chance, after all!
Oh, the anti-Capitalist stuff. Don't forget that. Add that in every time because the American people just eat that up like gravy on a biscuit. That is why Michael Moore is so popular with them. You are doing great.
There's a secret agreement that if Obama resigns, dies, becomes mentally incompetent, or otherwise has to leave office, Joe Biden can only succeed him if he gets a lobotomy first.
Oh, whatever you do, never admit that you are wrong. It will make you look human and vulnerable just like your enemies want you to appear. Don't give in. Keep fighting!
This is rapidly becoming a litmus test for who is a complete flaming assclown retard that is wasting perfectly good 02 that would be better spent on a Peruvian Dung Beetle.
The list already posted is a veritable who's who of stupid fucking people.
The contrast between the intelligence of the writing on this blog and the intelligence of many of the commentators here who seem to be of the same ideological stripe is astonishing.
So, there are no racists involved in TEA protests? There are some racists, but they don't matter? The race thing is a distraction cooked up by liberals and the media? White racist southerners are a myth?
Unless all of those people showing up to health care town halls and TEA parties waving their guns around and nonsensically calling Obama both a Marxist and a fascist are just the computer generated creations of MSNBC, claiming the insane haven't hijacked a good portion of both the conservative and libertarian debate just seems willfully ignorant.
It's the same as claiming the anti-Iraq war protests weren't bogged down in trust fund babies. Or that a large percentage of the Republican electorate has no problem with two men getting married. Or that a lot of the people handing out Ron Paul bumper stickers last year weren't 9/11 Truthers.
As much as everyone would like the debate to be about the merits of ideas, racists, Birthers, and "death panel" conspiracy theorists have taken the podium. Ignoring that fact won't make it go away.
For a group so concerned about straw man arguments, saying those who point out the racist motivations of many anti-Obama protesters are painting all protesters as racists is itself a straw man argument.
The contrast between the intelligence of the writing on this blog and the intelligence of many of the commentators here who seem to be of the same ideological stripe is astonishing.
I'm used to the sites I enjoy having a nice mix of thoughtful discussion and batshit crazy ranting. Not a dull sheen of witless mediocrity and Jay Leno-caliber Joe Biden jokes.
The contrast between the intelligence of the writing on this blog and the intelligence of many of the commentators here who seem to be of the same ideological stripe is astonishing.
Race is a red herring. Regardless of whether some opponents to the reform plan are racists. There are not only substantial reasons for opposing the plans on the table (as they change from week to week), there are few reasons for supporting these plans. Talk real reform--deregulation, reduction of direct government involvement in healthcare, etc.--and then we'll listen politely. Keep up the nonsense that the president and the Congress are spouting, and a large percentage of us will continue to run away and think about voting against the status quo in 2010 and 2012.
I think it's absolutely pathetic that NO ONE supporting the "reform" can stick for twenty seconds on the actual provisions of the reform or actually stick to the truth about what's being proposed. If Congress and the president were serious and honest, they'd put socialized medicine on the table and defend it. Since they can't do that without getting clobbered politically, they bullshit and redirect the argument to irrelevancies like racist charges. Which have absolutely nothing to do with the merit of their case. Look, over there, it's a guy who doesn't like black people!
I was contemplating whether or not I should be ramping up my reality troll filter and setting it to ignore all Democrats, but ChiTom sealed it for me.
They have ceased to be a group of people who are worth listening to, for any reason. It's just one contrived lie or slur after another now. They have reached null data value, and should be thusly ignored.
Oh, and fuck you ChiTom, you slobbering, partisan hack.
Carefully placing the ball on the tee for the XVII World Series of Tee-Ball, President Biden heard the distinct sound of knuckles cracking which given to the nearness of No. 8's aluminum bat to his trio of otic bones and the slow connection of stimulus to pain, he only lately realized the gravity of injury to the hand that was to shortly sign into law the stimulus of all stimuli...
Racism: denying other humans to a subhuman designation so as to deny them their rightful rights as fellow humans. Science tried to establish subhuman status through Phrenology and other studies. Outcome: Phrenology showed that we are all one species without even a subspecific nominator.
Counter-racism: catching up the law with science to provide full human legal status for all and guaranteeing their inherent rights.
Bigotry: the pervasive categorization of fellow humans based on melanistic qualities and cultural qualities that does not deprive them of their fundamental rights (Merely calling someone a racial epithet or thinking it or as in our case being accused of implying it by prejudiced judges.) Unfortunately, ignorance is the default for humanity, but the First Ammendment trumps them. It presupposes (correctly, I believe) that the truth will prevail in the marketplace of ideas.
Racism is fortunately illegal in our country. Bigotry is protected by the first ammendment along with a litany of ideas to which I strongly take exception.
The President of the United States should always be open to derision, ridicule, hatred, ridiculous ad hominems, spam, junk mail, infomercials, racist diatribes, pyramid schemes, partisan attacks, bogus accusations, inflammatory rhetoric, drunk-dialing, free blow-jobs in the White House, free phonics lessons, etc.
Racism would proscribe Mr. Obama ever becoming President.
"But when there was nothing like these protests while Bush took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit, started a senseless war and legitimized torture, then I'm suspicious about the motives of the protesters."
Another 'Truther'? President Bush did NOT have slimey, scummy, jihad bastards fly airplanes into the Twin Towers, the Pentagon or the ground.
He didn't have them blow up embassies or the Cole years earlier either.
Oh, wait, you are cool with that war, right? Sorry.
"But when there was nothing like these protests while Bush took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit, started a senseless war and legitimized torture, then I'm suspicious about the motives of the protesters."
The "senseless" war would be the one where Iraq constantly violated the terms of their surrender and shot at American and French pilots for a decade before Bush gave them an ass kicking, right?
Once Hillary Clinton lost the nomination to Mr. Obama, some of my bigoted Democrat friends temerously voted for Obama. They voted for their team, NOT necessarily for Obama. Right now they are saying nothing because they like Obama's agenda.
Once Hillary Clinton lost the nomination to Mr. Obama, some of my bigoted Democrat friends temerously voted for Obama. They voted for their team, NOT necessarily for Obama. Right now they are saying nothing because they like Obama's agenda.
Just like the feminists shudder who supported Clinton after all of his stuff? I am never using that term for me again.
I share SugarFree's contempt for anyone trying to lump a libertarian in with Glenn Beck or any other freakazoid simply because there is an overlap over profligate spending, Federal Government takeover, etc. If Beck et al. are johnny-come-latelies, then take them to task for that. Anyone who has regulary read comment threads here knows they are being dishonest to try to categorize posters into any kind of ant-farm. It is akin to assigning 'other' as a unified category.
I share SugarFree's contempt for anyone trying to lump a libertarian in with Glenn Beck or any other freakazoid simply because there is an overlap over profligate spending, Federal Government takeover, etc.
You racist! Glenn Beck is the tea-baggers' leader! Why do you have a racist leader, racist?
Everyone knows that Hillary wore the pantsuit (now she's moved on to more matronly wear as Madame Sec.) in that family. I always remember Bob Packwood, a Republican-in-name who lost his seat simply because he was a Republican-in-name.
Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed lurking this thread. Just one little thing:
ChicagoTom | September 16, 2009, 2:35pm | #
Sure -- you righty loons have had tons of conspiracy theories for Clinton. He was a serial rapist, he killed Vince Foster, etc.
But none of them were about him being an illegitimate president nor were they about him being a secret manchurian president. Those have been reserved for the black man with the middle name Hussein.
THIS is why no one can have an intelligent conversation with you. I have been waiting patiently for someone else to poke a hole in this.
Slick Willie Clinton WAS the Manchurian Candi
date in conspiracy theory lore. No one remembers all the chatter about his London days, his visit to Moscow, how he supposedly was a Communist mole who was selling all of our military secrets to the Red Chinese?? Nobody?
Those who cannot remember their histrionics are condemned to repeat them.
Everyone knows that Hillary wore the pantsuit (now she's moved on to more matronly wear as Madame Sec.) in that family. I always remember Bob Packwood, a Republican-in-name who lost his seat simply because he was a Republican-in-name.
Um, dear sir, I was referring to the William of the Clinton clan, not the house boss.
KFP is correct on that one. Clinton the Rhodes Scholar>Cecil Rhodes>"Paint the World Red". Remember it or not, the connection was made before the internet and not exclusively in conspiracy theory private mailings.
You are an angry individual like a lot of us here. Stop bringing 'race' and sex into the equation. I realize the 'extra' texture of the 'Uncle Tom'-bullshit, but man up (We only know you here by what you write, we can't see you.)
Otherwise, you fall prey into the senseless 'race' debate perpetrated by a certain faction of the Democratic Party and its counter mirror image in the Republican Party.
jester,
That's exactly my point. I'm trying to point out to the idiot trolls that the protesters are AMERICANS. Not just "white Americans." So the majority of the crowds are white? So what, the majority of the COUNTRY is white. What does it matter?
The racism meme just pisses me off. I'm letting these jackasses know that being conservative, libertarian, or just plain not liking Obama or Democrat policies is not exclusively white, Republican, or racist.
As usual the opponents of any kind of restriction on the illegal immigration, is playing the race card? It's a forgone conclusion that the benefactors of promoting a mass invasion of our shores, such as religious groups, unions, ACLU, radical ethnic caucuses and even our own US Chamber of Commerce, will mouth epithets that doesn't benefit big business, that doesn't advocate a continuous force of illegal cheap labor. Now they are really livid because their objection to E-Verify was thrown out of court. Now all federal contractors and subcontractors must adhere to the law. They have conspired against the American worker and people for too long, and now we are fighting back ourselves against corrupt politicians and other elected officials nationwide,
Rep.Joe Wilson was actually telling the truth at the time, and now Democrats have placed restrictive language in the Health care reform package as a reluctant afterthought by public demand. This was nothing to do about bigotry or racism, but the American workers and family survival. None of the business community who hire them wants their labor, but forces the taxpayer to carry the financial load. The US labor force should not have to be in competition, with people from other countries. Businesses have already offshore American jobs, because it's cheaper? So every illegal foreign national and family member should be exempt from government run health care, jobs and all the billions of taxpayer dollars secretly allocated to pay for their support. Twenty million plus illegal people compromised themselves, when they entered a sovereign nation without permission. Find out the truth at NUMBERSUSA, JUDICIAL WATCH and contact your politician at 202-224-3121 demanding no weakening conditions to E-Verify or any other law authored by Congress.
Brittanicus, sir, you're the one bringing race into the equation. A lot of Europeans would like to work in our country as well. Idiot bureaucracy vs. the market: I choose the market everytime. If you can't find fault with the HealthCare proposal in and of its self and have to bring immigration into the picture, sir, lonewacko is alone no more.
The contrast between the intelligence of the writing on this blog and the intelligence of many of the commentators here who seem to be of the same ideological stripe is astonishing.
So, there are no racists involved in TEA protests? There are some racists, but they don't matter? The race thing is a distraction cooked up by liberals and the media? White racist southerners are a myth?
Oh, my, smelling salts for m'lady?
Have you seen my pantaloons? Do you think I need another layer of cake flour on the visage?
Oh, those indelicate libertarian commentators, they make me feel so riled!
Keep up the nonsense that the president and the Congress are spouting, and a large percentage of us will continue to run away and think about voting against the status quo in 2010 and 2012.
Good argument from beginning to the end, PL. I swear, way back in 2006, I was pretty damn happy that the Republicans lost control of the Congress because of their mismanagement. I was even hoping Pelosi would give us some show trials of Bush officials behaving badly. Now, I can't wait until the Republicans regain control. God, these morons make me nauseous. From comments from the likes of ChiTom, to the left blogosphere, to the wretched masses in the White House and the Halls of Congress, never has such a sickly excuse for humanity tried to ride in on a white horse.
The humorous aspect of this entire affair is that, because the paranoia of the left is as unworthy of attention as the "racism" of the right, there is absolutely no reason to take seriously the entire Democratic party.
It makes for great politics... the government gets nothing done while the paranoid left and parnoid right refuse to even entertain each other's perspective/input/views. It's pathologically self-destructive. The left brings down their own presidency.
by the way, has anyone noticed that it's now the left that plays the "race card" (anti-Obamaism) and uses wedge issues (Creigh Deeds in Virginia)? clearly, like the republicans of yesteryear, the left has no real ideas so they have to resort to the politics of distraction and fear.
So, if every one of hundreds of thousands of protesters lose all credibility because of signs carried by a handful, then I suppose we are hereby cleared to disregard any lefty protest attended by ANSWER or the Socialist Worker's Party or any of the other loony leftists?
Indeed.
In fact, David Duke made more than one antiwar speech in the past few years.
All this new full court press by the left to scream racism is a sign of desparation. They cannot defeat the opposition on substance. Their strategy always depended on jamming their agenda through as fast as possible before people could get a chance to find out what it was really about. Now that they are getting bogged down, they revert to type and start screeching racism because that's all they've got.
How would they respond if someone were to cry racism when someone proposed stricter gun regulations?
its fitting since obama was largely elected based on being himself and not any specific policies and his support is based largely on being himself and not any specific actions since he's large been unsuccessful in accomplishing anything from his campaign.
We should remember that in 2004, Barack Obama conspired with the Chicago Tribune and a corrupt judge to unseal the divorce records of his opponent in the U.S. Senate race.
That should never be forgotten and never forgiven.
"For a group so concerned about straw man arguments, saying those who point out the racist motivations of many anti-Obama protesters are painting all protesters as racists is itself a straw man argument"
Isn't the straw man argument to take an isolated incident and apply it to many?
In this case the "racist" were the isolated and you seem to be making them the many?
Racism is dead, thankfully. The law changed that. Bigotry is alive and well and probably will never be stamped out, especially if there is a concerted effort to do so, simply because it steps on free speech rights.
Instead, bigotry could be shamed out of existence (as in shut the fuck up lonewacko), but longtime visitors to this site will see that at least one generation is necessary for that to happen.
This is actually a positive development. 10 months into Obama's term and most people are already sick and tired of hearing the word "racist". By the end of 4 years, using it in public will probably get your teeth knocked out of your face for you. This is a Good Thing.
At least in that respect, the Obama presidency will be a very, very positive influence on America!
From comments from the likes of ChiTom, to the left blogosphere, to the wretched masses in the White House and the Halls of Congress, never has such a sickly excuse for humanity tried to ride in on a white horse ass. (Ass as in donkey)
Yeah and I'm purporting this to be an extension of the purported strategy.
So you're just this side of pulling it out of your ass? Glad you finally admit it.
Tomcat1066,
Not too familiar with political history are you?
Irrelevant, but actually I am. I'm simply showing how idiotic your use of that source is you pompous dipshit. Come on, you could at least come up with something better...because frankly I think they did do just that. But if you're so much of a fucking idiot to not find something better than a wikipedia entry that just says that some people say it and call that a citation, then you're truly as irrelevant to any discussion as the turd I flushed earlier this morning.
"What won't stop is the growing hatred toward a young President based on his beliefs and the color of his skin."
Nice phrasing here, delegimatizing opposition based on a difference in political beliefs by throwing it in with opposition based on race. Cute, bad faith hack writing, but cute.
The fact that I'm wearing pink short-shorts and fiddling with my mangina right now doesn't make your arguments any more compelling.
@schempft
You're assuming the paranoid racists in the TEA party movement are somehow isolated. Even if they aren't the majority of the national movement, they aren't isolated. Go to any southern local newspaper's website and read the letters to the editor about Obama. Better yet, read the comments. Watch Glenn Beck, one of the leading figures in this movement, talk about how Obama's policies are shaped by his hatred of white people.
Before you claim I'm tossing out another straw man in the shape of Glenn Beck, you should consider that even though you may not be a fan of his, his ratings are large enough to be something more than an isolated distraction.
Reasonable, intelligent people may be making reasonable, intelligent arguments at these protests, but the crazies have control of the message. This is because they're loud and many. And you aren't helping your own cause by pretending this isn't the case.
On another note, I also give Condi Rice four out of five boners. But then again, I'm a sub.
Brian, the worst thing you can say about Beck is that he claims Obama has a hatred of white people?
That's pretty thin. Especially since many of Obama's supporters do seem to have a hatred of white people that don't bow down before the messiah. Calling mass groups of people 'racists' for no reason counts as hatred in my book.
I don't agree with all of what Glenn Beck says, but he is more on the mark than the rest of the MSM these days. It is news and important that Obama hired Van Jones who was a former communist and Truther. Beck covered the story while the rag NYT tried to cover it up.
"Especially since many of Obama's supporters do seem to have a hatred of white people that don't bow down before the messiah. Calling mass groups of people 'racists' for no reason counts as hatred in my book."
Both you and Beck appear particularly adept at contradicting yourselves in two sentences or less.
"Libertarians love to peddle the delusion that we live in a post racial America."
No, we WANT that to happen, Tom. It's a handful of right-wing malcontents, aided and abetted by the majority of the left-of-center, that keep fanning the racism flames.
Obama could go on TV and say something about this, but he's too much of a chickenshit and, therefore, has his mouthpiece Gibbs go out and fumble his way through some lame-assed explanation.
Oh, and you can take that anti-capitalist attitude and shove it up your ass, then tell us what the freedom-friendly replacement for capitalism would be. (Hint: There isn't one.)
JB | September 16, 2009, 11:32pm | #
If it's now racist to criticize the president, then I guess I was racist when I criticized Bush and I guess I'm racist now when I criticize Obama.
close JB...if you lived it you'd remember we are racist now, but we were anti-semites last year.
Those at Saturday's rally lost whatever credibility they might have had by depicting Mr. Obama in protest art flavored with racism.
So, if every one of hundreds of thousands of protesters lose all credibility because of signs carried by a handful, then I suppose we are hereby cleared to disregard any lefty protest attended by ANSWER or the Socialist Worker's Party or any of the other loony leftists?
One such warning was for President John F. Kennedy to stay out of Texas.
To stay out of Dallas.
The Book Depository museum in Dallas is full of garbage like this. Tons of stuff about right-wing opposition to Kennedy, one small section of a poster about how Oswald was a Communist.
Remember, disliking a President is MURDER.
"What we are seeing now is the bitterness of an unreconciled minority that will never accept the legitimacy of that election."
Actually, very few are unable to accept the legitimacy of the election. However protesting the policies of the man has nothing to do with the legitimacy of his holding the office, but what he's doing with it.
Of course, if white people (and I'll allow that most of the protestors are white) say anything negative about the actions of a black president, it's racism? Sounds like kind of a racist attitude if you ask me.
I give you the leader of the Tea Party movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fymdNxn82M&feature=player_embedded
Yeah, it's just the fringe of the group that are nuts. Just a handful....
Do we have to start adding disclaimers to everything?
"President Obama, who is black, not that there's anything wrong with that, today said in a speech..."
This isn't going to work. My opposition to the president and his policies (and his party) just grows the more as they flail about trying to distract people from the substance of their ridiculous and unpopular agenda.
Either do a Clinton or prepare for minority party status again. This crap will not work. Carter was despised for some of the same reasons, so blaming race is worse than idiotic.
I consider Obama to be a liar because he's a politician. If politicians were a separate race, I guess I could be considered a racist, but I think the mindset required for someone to enter politics can be classified at most as a mental problem, and not as a separate race.
Carter's obviously getting senile.
That, or he's just an idiot. I suppose given the historical record, you could make the case for either position.
Carter's obviously getting senile.
Nope, just reciting the party line.
My question is, do you think leftists really believe this nonsense, or do they knowingly use it as a distraction? I'm guessing there are a lot of people who may be sincere, but I think the big opinion makers are lying on purpose.
"Those at Saturday's rally lost whatever credibility they might have had by depicting Mr. Obama in protest art flavored with racism."
I love it when liberal pundits who have no credibility on anything start making proclamations on the credibilty of others.
All this new full court press by the left to scream racism is a sign of desparation. They cannot defeat the opposition on substance. Their strategy always depended on jamming their agenda through as fast as possible before people could get a chance to find out what it was really about. Now that they are getting bogged down, they revert to type and start screeching racism because that's all they've got.
Well, Carter is one of the most respected statesman around the world. Why, Osama Bin Laden just endorsed his book!
President Obama's push to improve America's health care system.
Bull
Shit!
Bull
Shit!
Bull
Shit!
Bull
Shit!
"My question is, do you think leftists really believe this nonsense, or do they knowingly use it as a distraction?"
The leftists I know seem to really buy into it. I know I've had arguments about this same subject.
I think what's happening is that liberals/progressives/whatever we're calling them this week see the situations like this:
Obama's policies will help minorities
-and-
Tea Party protestors oppose Obama's policies
-therefore-
Tea party protestors oppose minorities
I don't know that, but I can see the reasoning. Then, there are those who see it exclusively as a black President with opposition and so it has to be racist opposition.
And some are just not telling anything approaching the truth. There's that too.
I'm not sure that race is the issue, but it's not an unreasonable conclusion to draw. I know that people who read "Reason" are generally opposed to big government, so I wouldn't think that commenters on this thread or writers at Reason are racists for opposing Obama's policies.
But when there was nothing like these protests while Bush took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit, started a senseless war and legitimized torture, then I'm suspicious about the motives of the protesters. Frankly, I think that this isn't race, but rather simply politics -- Republicans supporting their own and protesting the Democrats. Either way, there's pretty clearly something going on besides the principle of "limited government."
I walked through the crowd at one of the first Tea Parties this year. Although I generally agreed with their platform, I couldn't shake the thought that they were protesting Obama more than they were protesting the specific policies.
Reason's only "weapon" in this "battle" is spitballs. You heard me: spitballs.
Calling someone a "racist" is almost always a personal opinion. The way you show that someone's opinions can't be trusted is by busting them when they lie or mislead about facts. Let me know when Reason understands that and lays the groundwork; it'll be a while.
Another group that didn't understand that and probably still doesn't is the incompetent hacks in the McCain campaign. Their response to Dem/MSM "concerns" (as in the troll) about loonies at their campaign events was to capitulate and give the Dems/MSM what they wanted. Of course, that incompetence and capitulation to the far-left shouldn't be a surprise considering that one of McCain's advisors was a former cabinet-level member of the Mexican government.
Yeah, it's just a different kind of racism. Republicans hate blue people.
If anybody knows racism it should be former president Jimmy Carter, the guy who still wants to shove all the Jewish Israelis into the sea, if they don't walk there voluntarily.
Sadly, I think we are witnessing a very steep backslide concerning race. The message of the civil right movement was always, "everyone should be treated equally regardless of race, religion, etc." That sentiment is at the heart of libertarianism (despite what trolls like Tony think). Read H&R for a week and you'll see this, concerning anything from gay marriage to school choice.
In 2009, we are dominated by "indentity politics." People are lumped into groups (black/white/hispanic/gay/female/Muslim). And politicians are pitting these groups against each other. Legislation is debated not on if something is good for the country, but on which group will benefit. The automatic reaction to anything bad that happens is to frame it around these divisions. If a person is murdered, we have to ask the race or religion of the victim and the murderer. If someone opposes the President, we have to ask the race of that person. It is just assumed that every individual acts for the interest of their own group.
We are heading into some dangerous territory.
Shut the fuck up, Lonewacko.
[T]he demonstration this weekend and the rhetoric that surround it look and sound much more like the Beer Hall Putsch than the Boston Tea Party.
Wow. An overwhelmingly, undeniably anti-fascist crowd is portrayed by the left as...fascist! The mind reels at the left's idiocy. They are impotent, bereft of ideas, intellectually bankrupt. But (it's important to recognize) they fill a vacuum created in part by the right.
Why should winning a popularity contest make a ruler "legitimate"? No,really, I have to wonder.
Shut the fuck up, LoneWacko.
Shut the fuck up, Warty.
Shut the fuck up, Jimmy Carter & Friends.
Spell Lonewacko's name the fuck properly, Xeones.
Learn the fucking difference between capitalization and spelling, Warty.
Fascism- it's not just for fascists, anymore.
Yo, fuck your spelling conventions, Warty.
And your capitalization conventions.
It's also for racists, P Brooks.
How many conspiracy theories about the JFK assassination would there be today, had Oswald really been a right-winger?
Wait, did 24 just make reference to "concerned observer" as a troll?
Fascism- it's not just for fascists, anymore.
Shut the fuck up, meanings of words.
"I couldn't shake the thought that they were protesting Obama more than they were protesting the specific policies."
its fitting since obama was largely elected based on being himself and not any specific policies and his support is based largely on being himself and not any specific actions since he's large been unsuccessful in accomplishing anything from his campaign.
Spelling and punctuation are fascist constructs, designed to keep free men in their places.
e.e. cummings was the free-est man of all
I, too, think there may be a lack of perspective on the part of Mr. Welch and other Reason writers when it comes to the race issue. This blog is written by and for people who oppose what they see as government irresponsibility and intrusion carried out by both Democrats and Republicans, including Obama. These are reasonable people with intelligent arguments. But that doesn't mean a majority of anti-Obama activists are on the same page.
Maybe it's because I live in the deep south (north Louisiana), but I know from first-hand experience that the vast majority of people I've encountered who are concerned about health care reform and the Obama administration's policies in general work from a deeply racist and misinformed base. I've been to my local Tea Party rallies, and I'm not exaggerating when I say most of the chatter there wasn't about unfair taxation or government takeover of private business but was instead about how Obama is a secret Muslim terrorist seeking to subjugate white people. Also, there was a fair amount of joking about how much Michelle Obama resembles a gorilla.
This kind of idiocy is real, and it's a huge part of the wave of protests against Obama. To ignore it or downplay it because it's not in your backyard is foolish, especially since it most adversely affects people trying to make reasonable Libertarian arguments.
Calling constructs fascist is a fascist tactic.
Calling fascist tactics fascist is a fascist ploy.
e.e. cummings was the free-est man of all
Fuck you, archy was. And don't complain that he was a cockroach, you fascist fascist.
I would agree with this, but add that the price tag on the bailouts and stimulus contributed a lot. The Iraq war cost a lot, but I seem to recall it was funded in small chunks, so we never saw $787 billion being spent at once.
Pointing out that calling fascist tactics fascist is a fascist ploy is a fascist pass time.
wotthehell ever, Warty, you fascist racist fascist fascist.
I'm getting fucking tired of criticism of Obama being kneejerkingly attributed to racism. When you toss out the racist card what you're doing is admitting you don't wish to debate the isue on it's merits.
Fuck you Jimmy Carter (agriphobia)
Fuck you Maureen Dowd (gingerism)
Fuck you Paul Krugman (anti-semitism)
Fuck you Susan Jacoby(misogyny)
Fuck you Lorenzo Carcaterra (anti-immigrant backlash)
Fuck each and every one of you disingenuos blowhards who claims to have peered into my soul and determined what is motivating me to disagree with Obama's dumbshit policies and hold him in lower esteem almost daily.
This is really starting to fucking piss me off. I sometimes rant, using profanities and obscenities extensively, when arrogant shitheads impugn my motives and are unable to carry on a civil debate.*
Since you dishonest fuckstains listed above started the racist accusation game, here's one right back at ya.
You only allow Rangel to remain uncensured and chairman of the Ways and Means Committtee because he's black. You are assumning that a black man from Harlem is just a well meaning idiot, not smart enough to handle his own goddam finances.
I'm looking at you Nancy Pelosi, goddam cocksucking sanctimonious bitch.
* This is one of those times. Every shit eating lefty thought police wannabe listed above can get down on their knees and rim my royal Americam asshole.
Every shit eating lefty thought police wannabe listed above can get down on their knees and rim my royal Americam asshole.
I think most of those listed would enjoy that too much.
illegitimate as the leader of our nation.
Are they still bitching about 2000?
"This kind of idiocy is real, and it's a huge small part of the wave of protests against Obama."
FTFY
e.e. cummings was the free-est man of all
Fuck you, archy was. And don't complain that he was a cockroach, you fascist fascist.
You're both wrong. Its will.i.am
The artist-formerly-known-as-the-artist-formerly-known-as-Prince was, for a time, but then he decided to slip back into the chains of fascism.
It doesn't matter
What you do or say
They'll call you racist
Anyway
Some morning I'll wake up to find that Jimmy Carter has passed away. And I'll smile a little smile just like I did upon hearing of the passing of Ted Kennedy.
will.i.am is a fascist.
J sub D,
Have you stopped beating your wife?
J sub D,
Have you stopped beating your wife?
J sub D likes beating his wife like Steve Smith likes raping hikers. No way he'll stop.
will.i.am is a fascist.
That is definitely racist.
will.i.am is a fascist.
fuck the Black Eyed Peas for birthing "My Humps" into an already godforsaken world
Calling people racist is fascist, you fascist.
I think Paul Krugman should take up hiking.
"Those at Saturday's rally lost whatever credibility they might have had by depicting Mr. Obama in protest art flavored with racism."
Where's the NEA when you need them?
How much of a pass did Bush really get? At the end, people were pretty upset about the bailout. But even with the war and everything else, we never approached the level of spending this administration has proposed. In the first six months! Naturally, around here, we were bitching about Bush's spending spree (seems so quaint, now) back then, too.
With the war, as well, Bush got a honeymoon period from a large number of people because of 9/11. It's easy to ignore that now, but it bought him 3-4 years with a good number of centrists. Obama is doing all of this, claiming that we're all doomed if we don't, but people aren't buying it.
fuck the Black Eyed Peas for birthing "My Humps" into an already godforsaken world
What Xeones actually meant to say here was "fuck the Black Eyed Peas (except Fergie).."
Godsdamned racist.
I'm getting fucking tired of criticism of Obama being kneejerkingly attributed to racism.
It's also tiresome to see the knee-jerk "if you think something is racist you are the racist" remarks. It's also tiresome to see the apologists downplay the significant racial aspect to these protests.
There's a reason why there's quite a bit of overlap between tea partiers and birthers. There's a reason why MANY of these people make sure to mention the "Hussein" part of his name. It's also quite telling how these same people never cared one whit while Bush was running up defecits and adding "socialist" entitlements or engaging on some of the worst crony capitalism America has ever seen (Haliburton and its subsidieries are just the easiest example)...but when Obama spends money or tries to change our craptastic health care system, he is destroying America.
Live in denial all you want, but it isn't racist to think that maybe all these pasty white people demanding their country back are at least partly motivated by fear of them not retaining their traditional place at the top.
I would agree with this, but add that the price tag on the bailouts and stimulus contributed a lot. The Iraq war cost a lot, but I seem to recall it was funded in small chunks, so we never saw $787 billion being spent at once
So that makes the hypocrisy ok?
Even if it wasn't at once, the numbers were out there (how many billions per month were being spent was reported quite often) and people knew about the price tag of the war (and if they really are simply interested in reigning in deficits and limiting spending, shouldn't they have made an effort to figure out the the price of the war -- even if it meant adding up each chunk?) These "tax protesting patriots" couldn't have cared less how much money GWB was spending on nation destroying and rebuilding.
"Frankly, I think that this isn't race, but rather simply politics -- Republicans supporting their own and protesting the Democrats. Either way, there's pretty clearly something going on besides the principle of "limited government.""
This is how our modern politics work. The electorate is more concerned with cheering for their team than what actually gets done policy wise. Just as it can be argued where were these protests when Bush did it? - It can also be asked, where are all the left anti-war protests now? Obama has the exact same Iraq plan as Bush did when leaving office and is ramping up Afghanistan with not exit strategy or benchmark for success... sound familiar?
"there was nothing like these protests while Bush took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit, started a senseless war and legitimized torture"
CONGRESS took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit.
CONGRESS approved a senseless war and legitimized torture.
FIFY
Brian Thompson's post illustrates the article's point exactly:
Brian said the crowd at a Louisiana tea party was racist based on ... hmmm ... actual racist comments made by many in the crowd.
The columnists and pundits lampooned in the article don't bother with such details as actual evidence. It is enough to interpret code words like "consitution". When you don't have code words, you just imagine racist language being appended to what was actually said.
P Brooks and Warty -
I'm a widower so beating my wife doesn't help much anymore. I am willing to hire out my expertise though.
If you'd like me to beat your wife dial 1-800-BRUISER (1-800-278-4737)
Before the kids stopped by, Kevin said: We are heading into some dangerous territory.
Indeed. And, sites like this are acting as TourGuides for one of the groups. (The Dems and GOP are TourGuides for much larger groups).
All those TourGuides support far-left concepts, whether they admit it or not. For instance, instead of exposing the SPLC, Reason links to them approvingly. Instead of opposing race-based calls for MassiveImmigration, Reason has endlessly promoted them (by calling opponents of MassiveImmigration names just as much as the NCLR does).
It all basically comes down to intelligence and integrity, and, well...
Rahm's revisionism: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/15/AR2009091503697.html?hpid=topnews
The Constitution was a slave document.
Rahm's revisionism: the John Birch Society was created in reaction to Kennedy,"
I must admit I feel a little foolish now. Back when people were protesting democracy in Iraq, a lot of rightwing types said that all those people in those big demonstrations where just a bunch on anti-Americans and communist. I said, no, most protestors were reasonably mainstream Americans and that we couldn't judge an entire movement on the basis of few extremist even if those extremist played a key role in organizing the rally.
Apparently, I am wrong. Apparently, we are to judge the millions of people within a movement by their most extreme elements. So, now we can all say in good conscious that everyone who opposed the liberation of Iraq only did so because of their deep and abiding hatred of America.
Guess I owe the John Birch Society an apology.
Shut the fuck up, Lonewacko.
"This blog is written by and for people who oppose what they see as government irresponsibility and intrusion carried out by both Democrats and Republicans, including Obama. These are reasonable people with intelligent arguments."
WTF???
When the Tea Party has their rallies, people turn back the covers and find racists hiding behind their protest signs, depite the fact that the majority of those at the rally aren't racist and reject any racist message.
When the left had their anti-war rallies, they inherently rejected America itself, and you didn't have to turn back any covers to find extreme anti-American viewpoints that wished death and destruction of the entire country and its leaders.
Yet according to the media and Jimmy Cahtah, The tea parties are racists, and the anti-war protests were patriotic.
That makes a lot of sense.
Live in denial all you want, but it isn't racist to think that maybe all these pasty white people demanding their country back are at least partly motivated by fear of them not retaining their traditional place at the top.
I noticed you threw "pasty" in there.
For a tangible example of Reason not holding the line against the far-left, I just checked and they've never once mentioned this.
I mean, come on, it's still right there on his site:
my.barackobama.com/page/content/eahome
In fact, as with something else that could have been extremely effective against him that was right on his site, I'm the only person who picked up on it.
P.S. In case anyone replies to this, their responses will almost assuredly be ad homs, thereby conceding my points and showing the childish, anti-intellectual nature of libertarians.
How much of a pass did Bush really get
Quite a bit of a pass. I mean 9/11 happened on his fucking watch (more than 9 months after taking office) while he was getting memos saying Bin Laden determined to attack the US and intelligence agencies and the FAA were aware of the potential to use planes as weapons.
I think that right there is a pretty big pass. He also had a lapdog press that downplayed the anti-war movement and covered them like they were just a bunch of deranged peace-nicks (an anti-war movement that dwarfed the current tea party movement -- yet the tea party loons get a ton of positive press and are treated as something other than batshit crazy) because they were caught up in war fever post 9/11.
But even with the war and everything else, we never approached the level of spending this administration has proposed
So let's ignore that the economy went to shit as Bush left office, and pretend like their circumstances were exactly the same.
You can disagree with the concept of spending your way out of a recession, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a legitimate course of action.
Obama felt he had to spend to get the economy on track...an economy ruined by Rands most famous disciple Alan Greenspan.
Their situations weren't really the same were they? But let's pretend they were. Cuz Obama is a liberal and facts don't matter when you are attacking liberals.
"Maybe it's because I live in the deep south (north Louisiana)"
I love Lake Bruin!
Chicago Tom -
Define "overwhelming majority".
IMHO that's in the neighborhood of two thirds.
It is also disingenous bullshit hyperbole used to discredit opponents.
There are terrorists against the war in Iraq. There are anti-semites opposing aid to Israel. There are socialists supporting more government intervention in health care. There are communists opposed to prayer in the public schools. And it goes on and on and on and on ...
ALL HAIL!
Back when people were protesting democracy in Iraq
Who was protesting that exactly?
You can't even honestly describe the anti-war movement -- so why the fuck should the rest of your pathetic rant be taken seriously?
Yes, yes, I remember all those "No Democracy for Iraq signs" at the anti-war rallies.
The part of Jamie Kelly will be played by J sub D.
"Live in denial all you want, but it isn't racist to think that maybe all these pasty white people demanding their country back are at least partly motivated by fear of them not retaining their traditional place at the top."
Yeah, all of those privileged tea partiers, in their monacles, spats, and top hats. You're not sticking with the script, Tom -- you're supposed to be portraying them as knuckle-dragging rednecks, no doubt driving to their events by the pickup truck-load from the trailer park.
Ah, the Deep South, where, after watching Cannonball Run, break up into discussion groups afterwards to talk about Dom DeLuise as a reoccurring Christ figure....
(HT Dennis Miller).
race-based calls for MassiveImmigration
Czech girls! Lots and lots of teenage Czech girls. That's some race-based MassiveImmigration I can really endorse.
ps-
[insert egregious insulting ad hominem]
How many conspiracy theories about the JFK assassination would there be today, had Oswald really been a right-winger?
One fewer.
They wouldn't need "Oswald was really a right-winger."
Take a hike, Lonewacko!
"But when there was nothing like these protests while Bush took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit, started a senseless war and legitimized torture, then I'm suspicious about the motives of the protesters."
Yessir! No one ever protested the war during the Bush administration!
Not. even. one. soul.
Those Bush years sure were quiet.
Racism: injecting race into situations where it doesn't belong.
You can't even honestly describe the anti-war movement -- so why the fuck should the rest of your pathetic rant be taken seriously?
Is being the biggest fucking hypocrite in the universe some sort of perverse sexual thrill for you?
Define "overwhelming majority".
Why? I never said "overwhelming majority" -- it might not be. But it is more than just a few fringe extremists that are few and far between.
"I've been to my local Tea Party rallies, and I'm not exaggerating when I say most of the chatter there wasn't about unfair taxation or government takeover of private business but was instead about how Obama is a secret Muslim terrorist seeking to subjugate white people. Also, there was a fair amount of joking about how much Michelle Obama resembles a gorilla."
I call bullshit on this.
BULLSHIT.
Knowing Steve Smith is still at large (lumbering around at the periphery of America's roads and trails), this is a pretty harsh demand.
He also had a lapdog press that downplayed the anti-war movement and covered them like they were just a bunch of deranged peace-nicks
No, they were PATRIOTIC. Remember? Dissent is patriotic! Tea parties are RACIST. Marxists who pass out pamphlets calling for the end of capitalism and openly calling for the assassination of our president were PATRIOTIC.
"Brian said the crowd at a Louisiana tea party was racist based on ... hmmm ... actual racist comments made by many in the crowd."
Look, as I said I love Lake Bruin. And I have spent a great deal of time in Louisiana. And yes, there are an amazing number of overtly racist folks down there. It's stunning really. But then so are the bayous and Grand Isle, which is why I go there. Oh, and the food too.
They were racist before Obama (in '97 there were ubiquitous "Duke Country" posters around Breaux Bridge high up on the telephone poles.
But here's the thing, Mr. Thompson (and The Extispicator) don't pain my northern ass with your racist southern brush. It's as foolish as claiming that because there are alligators in LA rivers, then there are alligators in all the rivers of America. It's just stupid.
Is being the biggest fucking hypocrite in the universe some sort of perverse sexual thrill for you?
You can either point out my hypocrisy or you can go fuck yourself, NutraSweet.
I haven't been hypocritical in the least so your bullshit accusation rings hollow.
CT,
Come on. I don't blame Bush for 9/11, nor do most people. I blame al Qaeda. The U.S. in general took a rather lackadaisical approach to potential attacks on U.S. soil, mostly because we figured no one would be stupid enough to attack us here. The Clinton administration could be more fairly criticized, since a lot of the build up to 9/11 (including other attacks) happened back then, but I don't think that's fair either. In hindsight, a lot could've been done better.
As for the economy, what did Bush have to do with the recession? It's a cycle. The financial services crash wasn't anything he could've done much about. Presidents can certainly hurt the economy, but they have little to do with the economic cycle in general.
There has been so much deceit and misdirection from this government that I'm surprised you're so willing to back it. The stimulus wasn't at all intended to help the economy, it was fulfilling a wishlist of spending programs that couldn't get passed previously. Witness the fact that most of it hasn't been spent even now, when we're showing signs of a partial recovery. Personally, I think the growing lack of confidence in the government likely has hampered the recovery, if anything.
This is a bad president and a worse Congress. Period. And since he's preserving much of the badness from his predecessor, this president may end up being worse than Bush. I sure hope not, but he's trying really hard.
"Obama felt he had to spend to get the economy on track...an economy ruined by Rands most famous disciple Alan Greenspan.
Their situations weren't really the same were they? "
Bush inherited the dotcom bust and then watched the economy take a trillion dollar hit thanks to 9-11. That is not quite the banking crisis that happened last summer but it was pretty big. The DOW and the NASDAQ both tanked big time and a lot of people were wiped out.
Bush responded by cutting taxes and letting people keep more of what was theirs. Obama responded to his crisis by letting Pelosi and Reid pass a stimulus bill that was insane even by Keynesian standards.
It is not so much that Obama has ballooned the deficit. You are correct in saying that because of the recession any President would have big deficits right now. The problem is that Obama has ballooned the deficit in ways that do nothing for economy. Worse than that, he hasn't lowered taxes or done anything to create incentives for investment. On top of that he is fighting about healthcare and cap and theft, both of which are likly to radically change the business environment, which is creating uncertainly and further destroying investment.
Yes, Obama inherited a recession. But, he has done absolutely nothing to combat it.
And since he's preserving much of the badness from his predecessor, this president may end up being worse than Bush.
You can piss down on the heads of a lot more people when you're standing on the shoulders of a man who pissed from the shoulders of giants.
It's pissing turtles all the way down, Xeones.
@ Federal Dog
My experience comports with his claims. I could tell you stories for days on end.
We could really use a Un-President right now. Some kind of limited government freak who vetoed stuff and shutdown large portions of the government.
Otherwise, the guy after Obama will be able to hit all of his with his high-altitude urine stream.
All of us, that is. And I use guy and his in the gender-neutral sense.
"But it is more than just a few fringe extremists that are few and far between."
[Citation Needed]
"But when there was nothing like these protests while Bush took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit, started a senseless war and legitimized torture, then I'm suspicious about the motives of the protesters"
This is such a line of horseshit. Last I looked Republicans lost control of Congress in 2006 because people were pissed about the spending and corrpution. Then in 2008, they kicked more Republicans out of Congress and gave the reins to McHopey.
McHopey and Congress are stealing even more money and are even more corrupt than the Republicans were. And not surprisingly people are pissed off about it only to be told that they have no right to be mad since Bush did it to. Yes, Bush did it to and saw his party get kicked out of office for it. And that is exactly what is going to happen to the Dems.
I haven't been hypocritical in the least so your bullshit accusation rings hollow.
So your description of the TEA protests have been honest? Really?
Live in denial all you want, but it isn't racist to think that maybe all these pasty white people demanding their country back are at least partly motivated by fear of them not retaining their traditional place at the top.
Maybe all the TEA protectors are racists? Motivated by racism? That's your fucking hypocrisy. And don't fig leaf behind "partially motivated" because no one your side would accept "Oh, he's just partially racist, the rest of him is A-OK."
joe slunk off with his tail between his legs, but you went fucking insane.
Chicago Tom -
Jimmy Carter used the term overwhelming majority. Will you go on record saying he's full of shit? Since four is "more than a few" I'll agree with you there. More than a few Communists are against prayer in public schools as well. So fucking what?
What would be your guess of the percentage of people who think realize Obama regularly lies to the American public are racists who think he was born in Indonesia, Kenya or the Falklands?
And for the record, my experience in Southwest Georgia at tea parties had not a hint of racism, so the previously mentioned experience could easily be counted as the "fringes" since multiple tea parties in Georgia haven't delivered similar accounts of racism and idiocy (which is a huge chunk of what that story contains).
In this incident with Congressman Joe Wilson speaking out of turn and Jimmy Carter trying to play the race card by stating it's about racism in America.
As God is my witness folks get this through your heads, the Elitists are working hard to play this as the race card! In effort to get us taring at each other's throats - divide and conquer!
No, this thing with President Barack Obama has nothing to do with race, many of us have grown up with all kinds of races outside our front and back doors - that is America and we have for quite some time been able to see the quality in all races! We have been best friends with people of other races and cultures in our day to day lives!
The thing that causes Americans to dislike and not trust or respect President Obama is his Fascist, Marxist style of politics along with his habitual habit of lieing! From the day Americans are born we were taught to dislike any form of communism or oppression of society! Now we have it practicing it's politics in our own back yard!
Not something that will fly in the "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave!"
Charlie Sheen is offering a Live debate on the "Larry King", show with any Government Rep or Reps in lieu with his 20 questions that he has requested sensible answers for from President Barack Obama!
Charlie has had no takers for the debate challenge so what does that tell us? 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!
http://www.infowars.com
Why? I never said "overwhelming majority" -- it might not be. But it is more than just a few fringe extremists that are few and far between.
Would you believe 10%?
It's also tiresome to see the knee-jerk "if you think something is racist you are the racist" remarks.
You racists are so sensitive about that. Especially Illinois Nazi racists.
"I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama"
- Jimmy Carter
"Jimmy Carter used the term overwhelming majority"
- What you claim he said.
The two are not even remotely the same thing. Words do matter.
We need the Cone of Silence for this one, Chief.
* * *
Say, are you positing an overwhelming minority?
What won't stop is the growing hatred toward a young President based on his beliefs and the color of his skin.
Political beliefs =/= color of skin
Tell you what, though, let's test this racism hypothesis -- have Obama resign and see if anyone is still protesting when Biden does the same stupid stuff.
ChicagoTom is clearly a fascist.
It is all about there being a black President. Because no one ever had any crazy conspiracy theories or kooky hatred of Clinton or Bush. Right Tom? These kooks never were around when there was a white man in office.
Tell you what, though, let's test this racism hypothesis -- have Obama resign and see if anyone is still protesting when Biden does the same stupid stuff.
NO, N?O, NON, NEE, NEIN, NYE, NYET, LAA!
Quit scaring me at work!
"Overwhelming portion" implies majority, therefore "overwhelming majority" is redundant at best.
A better weasel would have been "intensely demonstrated animosity," thereby saying he was only talking about the people mad enough to march and wave signs.
But since your media outlets have defined all the protesters as violent nutbags, then that does not really work either.
ChicagoTom is clearly a fascist.
I hate Illinois Fascists.
I'm looking at you Nancy Pelosi, goddam cocksucking sanctimonious bitch.
J sub D -- calling a woman a cocksucker is not, in my book, criticism or a pejorative.
Feature, not a bug.
Carter Country
God that show was awful, even as 70s sitcoms went. It ranked right up there with "Enos" and "The Misadventures of Sheriff Lobo". Not that I didn't watch it...
joe slunk off with his tail between his legs, but you went fucking insane.
Awesome
Still i am pretty sure Joe is somewhere being just as insane as ChicogoTom...probably convinced that the time he spent here was in the company of full blown KKK members.
For the more conspiracy minded....did anyone else notice that joe left at about the same time Wagel did?
And for the record, my experience in Southwest Georgia at tea parties had not a hint of racism,
Ditto for West Texas, although my experience is pretty limited.
@ Suger
No. It's "I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity"
[I]ntensely demonstrated animosity is the subject, not people protesting per se.
"What we are seeing now is the bitterness of an unreconciled minority that will never accept the legitimacy of that election."
That is just comedy gold. All those "selected President" bumber stickers after 2000 didn't seem to create much of a problem. I think the Republic will survive this.
Tell you what, though, let's test this racism hypothesis -- have Obama resign and see if anyone is still protesting when Biden does the same stupid stuff.
I'd be behind this without reservation. I know Joe is nuts, but I suspect his version is significantly less harmful than the version we're facing right now.
Biden would be a hilariously goofy President. Throwing a bean ball as the opening pitch at the Little League Championships sort of goofy.
@spitball
I didn't intend to paint all northerners with my southern racism brush. I only intended to point out that the number of racists from both the north and the south involved in TEA protests and associated rallies should only be brushed off at the peril of honest discussion. It's foolish for liberals to claim the number of nutjobs in their ranks is insignificant, and it's just as foolish for people with genuine gripes against Obama to downplay the number of nutjobs in their ranks.
Maybe some people have been playing the race issue to avoid real debate, but my argument is that the race issue is deserving of real discussion. Anyone with reasonable concerns about Obama and our current Democratic congress should be willing to recognize and deal with the worst of his ideological brethren instead of pretending they don't exist.
On another note: since you have first-hand knowledge of the overt racism down here, you probably also won't be surprised that our racists are not above writing letters to the editor about how they're tired of being called racists by "libs". In their minds, they aren't so much racist as upset. They just happen to be upset mostly about black people.
"Biden would be a hilariously goofy President. Throwing a bean ball as the opening pitch at the Little League Championships sort of goofy."
Very true. Biden is dumb as a post and goofy as hell. But, he would have the advantage of at least giving us a President with whom you might want to someday meet. OBama is just grim and grating.
Tell you what, though, let's test this racism hypothesis -- have Obama resign and see if anyone is still protesting when Biden does the same stupid stuff.
Ummm....i am sorry i can't go along with this...Obama sucks but Biden is bat shit in-fucking-sane. I do not want that guy to have the codes.
Biden would solve the current domestic situation by partitioning the United States.
Biden/Palin 2012!
Joe Biden=Gerald Ford?
@SugarFree
The difference between a simple majority and an "overwhelming majority" is the same as the difference between a victory and a landslide. "Overwhelming" implies a matter of degree. There's no redundancy. Cliche, maybe, but not redundant. But then again, so is using the phrase "at best".
I don't think Obama would be that bad in person. He strikes me as the sort of man that results when a boy is raised primarily by women. They reward seriousness and "good-boyism" way too much. I bet you get him out with the boys and a few beers in him and he'd be fine to shoot the shit with.
"I don't think Obama would be that bad in person. He strikes me as the sort of man that results when a boy is raised primarily by women. They reward seriousness and "good-boyism" way too much. I bet you get him out with the boys and a few beers in him and he'd be fine to shoot the shit with."
That is how I always viewed Clinton. Obama seems like such a schoolmarm. A lot like Carter that way. But maybe if you played baskeetball with him and didn't talk politics he would be okay.
Really, the smartest think Obama could have done would have pulled a Nixon and walked out on the mall and talked to the 9-12 marchers. It would have totally taken the wind out of their sails and made him look like a great guy. I would have been brilliant.
Will the President have a West/Swift beer summit soon? What would Kanye drink? I assume that Swift would have like, a Bacardi O3 or, if she's a big girl now, a Natty or something. I mean, she does sing country.
In their minds, they aren't so much racist as upset. They just happen to be upset mostly about black people.
The simple fact is you will find more independents and democrats who voted for Obama at those protests then you will find racists.
Brian Thompson,
"Overwhelming portion" is more than a simple 50.1% limp over the finish line. Do you have the overwhelming portion of a chicken if we split it down the middle but I give you my near-meatless wing?
"Overwhelming portion" is at least 2/3 or 3/4, i.e. a supermajority. A supermajority being described as an "overwhelming majority" is barely redundant, I was just trying to be nice.
And neither "overwhelming majority" or "at best" are cliches, but maybe over-common figures of speech.
This guy Capeheart from the WaPo was just on MSNBC (Ezra Klein wasn't available? No, he was available, he just wasn't black.)
He says roughly "again I want to say that, yes, there are some shrill voices in the extreme among those protesters who are motivated by something else."
By that standard I think there are some in the front row of the DNC in Denver who "were motivated by America-hatred."
And the Thomas-Franks-style condescension. These crackers are so stupid and ignorant (meaning they think nigras are stupid and ignorant) that they let racist memes and hatreds confuse them as to which side their bread is buttered on. If only they were smarter they would support Obama and learn to love the government.
Maybe all the TEA protectors are racists? Motivated by racism? That's your fucking hypocrisy. And don't fig leaf behind "partially motivated" because no one your side would accept "Oh, he's just partially racist, the rest of him is A-OK."
I absolutely believe that if this were a white president proposing the same things these people wouldn't get off their asses and protest. Just like they didn't care when Bush was pushing Medicare Part D without proposing how to pay for it. I absolutely believe that the fact that Obama is black and has the middle name Hussein fuels the flames.
Race may not be the only motivation, but it does seem to have a significant impact on what's going on. And it isn't limited to just a handful of the fringe as you dishonest fuckers keep trying to make people believe.
But it isn't surprising. Libertarians love to peddle the delusion that we live in a post racial America.
joe slunk off with his tail between his legs, but you went fucking insane.
Pot meet kettle. You fucking glibertarians scream out socialism and communism any time someone wants to fix something that your beloved corrupt capitalism is failing at, and I'm the crazy one? Uh huh.
The financial sector was robbing people blind and destroying our economy with their high risk gambles and the only outrage you whackjobs could muster was when the government, who were now bailing out the financial institutions and keeping them alive, tried to limit compensation to the people that got us into this mess. OH and you wanted even less regulation.
It's like you idiots believe that if a boat has a hole and is taking in water, the solution is to drill another hole in the boat so the water can escape.
Because no one ever had any crazy conspiracy theories or kooky hatred of Clinton or Bush
Sure -- you righty loons have had tons of conspiracy theories for Clinton. He was a serial rapist, he killed Vince Foster, etc.
But none of them were about him being an illegitimate president nor were they about him being a secret manchurian president. Those have been reserved for the black man with the middle name Hussein.
But to that that racism has any part of that is just plain crazy -- that's what you retards want others to believe.
ChicagoTom is clearly a racist.
"And neither 'overwhelming majority' or 'at best' are cliches, but maybe over-common figures of speech."
Mind = blown.
Dude, seriously?
Based on ancdotal evidence and personal experience, most people really aren't racist.
I'd rather have Obama than Biden, although the gap has narrowed based on seeing what Obama has done in practice compared to his rhetoric. Chosing Biden for VP (and telecom immunity) were the warnings that Obama was going to be a huge disaster in terms of delivering any actual reform of executive power. I think Reid slightly outdoes him as the distiliation of everything that's wrong with the modern Democratic party into a single individual, but Biden's a close second.
CT, clearly you are delusional, and biased.
SF,
This debate over overwhelming is underwhelming me.
Getting the remember me thing to remember me instead of ! is overwhelming me.
Wow, I'm all about the typos today.
You fucking glibertarians scream out socialism and communism any time someone wants to fix something that your beloved corrupt capitalism is failing at, and I'm the crazy one?
Yes. Yes, you are. You've reached Tony levels of disingenuous bullshit.
Oh, and Brian Thompson? "Glibertarians." There's your cliche.
ChicagoTom's latent-cum-tertiary racism has eaten holes in his brain. That, or the syphilis.
Tell you what, though, let's test this racism hypothesis -- have Obama resign and see if anyone is still protesting when Biden does the same stupid stuff.
Ha, nice try, racist. Just another way to get rid of the black man.
The financial sector was robbing people blind and destroying our economy with their high risk gambles
Fanny May and Freddy Mac?
Your argument would have an ounce of credibility if you could actually produce a democrat who was opposed to what Wall Street was doing before the bubble burst...furthermore it would have more credibility if Obama's treasury department and FED was not filled with poeple who were working at wall street when the bubble did burst.
Yes Chicagotom...you have gone insane.
Yep, my bad.
Nope. Overwhelming portion puts you in the 55-60% range. Not the exact same thing as two thirds, but I won't cop to "not even remotely".
Yep, again. Including "not even remotely". 😉
You fucking glibertarians scream out socialism and communism any time someone wants to fix something that your beloved corrupt capitalism is failing at, and I'm the crazy one?
You're wrong. We completely support the socialism and communism that's proposed by white politicians. We're only opposing it when Obama proposes it because we're racists.
Really? Despite all those links up there demonstrating that the press treats the current protesters like they're "batshit crazy?" Even I gave you Fox News, what about the rest of the media?
Sure, Republicans gave Bush more of a pass because he was a Republican than they would if he were a Democrat. Partisan politics and group belonging is stupid that way. It didn't help that Democrats weren't calling for less spending, but rather arguing that Bush still wasn't spending enough or was cutting Medicare too much, etc, but they still did give him more of a pass.
You could just as equally argue that "Democrats aren't allowed to oppose the Iraq War, because they didn't oppose Bosnia and Kosovo when it was a Democratic President calling for those interventions." Sorry, any fine distinctions between the cases we'll ignore, including distinctions of size. War is war.
But the people that Reason interviewed were certainly upset with Bush.
No, Reason complained about the bailouts to the financial institutions. Obama supported the bailouts, just like he supported every bailout.
But you are at least as hypocritical as the imaginary protesters you haven't met. Obama can continue Bush's policies.
What I meant to say was that an overwhelming majority of people aren't racist, at best.
"Just like they didn't care when Bush was pushing Medicare Part D without proposing how to pay for it. I absolutely believe that the fact that Obama is black and has the middle name Hussein fuels the flames. "
1. Part D, is about 1/10th of the size of Obamacare. It also didn't affect very many people. Obamacare totally changes the way everyone's insurance opeartes in this country. You can't compare one to the other.
2. People were pissed off about Bush's spending. Maybe you missed it, but the Republicans got voted out of office in 2006 and 2008. If no one cared about Bush's spending, then how the hell did Obama get elected in the first place?
"But none of them were about him being an illegitimate president nor were they about him being a secret manchurian president. Those have been reserved for the black man with the middle name Hussein."
Oh that is fucking laughable. They just thought that Clinton's wife killed Vince Foster and that he was selling drugs in Mena Arkansas and that Bush allowed 9-11 to happen and invaded Afghanistan in order to get a pipeline deal and invaded Iraq in order to make Halliburton rich..
You are just being a douschbag Tom. You don't even believe this shit.
" I think Reid slightly outdoes him as the distiliation of everything that's wrong with the modern Democratic party into a single individual, but Biden's a close second."
Racist.
The financial sector was robbing people blind and destroying our economy . . .
You're only saying that because you're an anti-Semite. Don't think we can't see through your coded language.
Will the President have a West/Swift beer summit soon? What would Kanye drink? I assume that Swift would have like, a Bacardi O3 or, if she's a big girl now, a Natty or something. I mean, she does sing country.
She's 19 years old. Thanks to Liddy Dole, she's not allowed to drink anything.
If she needs a shoulder to cry on...
As has been said earlier, we voted out republicans that pissed us off. Many, Many of us called congress critters to complain about the direction things were going, and about specific misguided legislation. Just because there weren't many of us out on the street, doesn't mean we weren't upset, and doing something about it. Remember, we aren't the protesting sort. The fact that so many have hit the streets really says something.
Additionally, on the racism front, anecdotally, I didn't see a single sign, or hear a single comment that I'd classify as racist. Maybe being St. Louis, it's different. I don't know. However, the constant claims of racism do in fact block actual reasonable debate on the issues. Claiming that it is an issue that needs to be discussed is simply attempting to legitimize this obstructionism.
From Dan Reihl:
So just so we are clear....talking loudly about how Obama will be allowed to serve out his term and seek re-election makes you a thug. Carrying pictures of Obama with a Hitler mustache, bringing guns to town halls, and contemplating beating up children on the subway makes you a patriot.
Other than the fact that they were black youths, what exactly made them "thugs" ??
The racist claim is going to totally screw the Dems. A lot of independents voted for Obama because they thought he was going to a centrist like Clinton and they thought it would help race relations to have a black President. Running around breaking the bank and calling everyone who disagrees a racist is not what people bargined for.
I recall very similar levels of anger by "the right" aimed at Bill Clinton when he was Prez. That the right does not like the left is not news.
I think John's analysis is correct here. Dems screaming racism is only going to play badly.
Tom,
Your Reil quote is pathetic. Is that the best you got?
CT,
You are insane and you can't read no good neither.
"Obama's going to be president as long as he wants, so these people better get used to it, etc." does not equal "serve out his term." It equals dictatorship.
"I recall very similar levels of anger by "the right" aimed at Bill Clinton when he was Prez. That the right does not like the left is not news."
Yes. Doesn't anyone remember the 90s? People on the right hated Clinton. It was called Clinton derrangement syndrome. For better or worse, the party out of power usually hates the President. Go back and read what people said about Roosevelt, Kennedy or Nixon sometime. It makes what they are saying about Obama seem pretty tame.
I don't doubt that racism plays a big role in a good chunk of the anti-Obama crowd, but a lot of it is policy disputes. All this stuff started happening when Obama proposed what he himself admits are some pretty radical changes to an important issue for most Americans.
"What would Kanye drink?"
His usual drink: a tall glass of snow-white semen. With a twist.
ooh, ooh, MNG, I'm smelling a logical fallacy in ChicagoTom's rantings. I cannot decide if it's hasty generalization or the fallacy of composition. Can you help me, O Wise One?
John
I agree. I think the Dems should stop complaining about the fact that many people in America oppose what they want to do. Fucking duh, that's how two party politics works! It's making them seem pretty whiny imo...
"I absolutely believe that if this were a white president proposing the same things these people wouldn't get off their asses and protest"
No one gives a shit what you "believe". Please go fuck yourself.
TAO
Look, you just exposed yourself as knowing very little about the field of philosophy the other nite, no need to cry about it here.
"But none of them were about him being an illegitimate president" [like Bush in 2000]
This is why no one gives a shit what you believe.
Hey TAO, do you still think "everyone has a right to what they earn" is profound philosophy [snicker]
"I agree. I think the Dems should stop complaining about the fact that many people in America oppose what they want to do. Fucking duh, that's how two party politics works! It's making them seem pretty whiny imo..."
If obama would come out and tell his own supporters to shut up about racism, it would go a long way. Say that he disagrees with the 9-12 marchers, but he understands their concerns and that we need to move beyond race and stop calling each other racists and other over the top things. It would be great.
oh, come on! I'm lost and foundering here! I think that you're morally obligated to help me. 😀
"if this were a white president proposing the same things these people wouldn't get off their asses and protest"
Yeah, that's stupid. He's proposing a big government program. A shitload of people are strongly opposed to big government programs. They are going to strongly oppose that kind thing. I mean, people who say things like this have been in a cave since 1980 I guess.
His usual drink: a tall glass of snow-white semen. With a twist.
Fish semen?
Who is spoofing MNG?
"!" - nobody. MNG's decent on racial issues.
Can anyone get a psychiatrist or at least a GP on here and do a sigh-unseen diagnosis on ChicagoTom? His Racism-Fascism is starting to worry me.
I don't think it would help you to identify the fallacy since you seem to not understand the basic nature of what logical fallacies are and mean. As I explained they are not Harry Potter-esque incantations that prove assertions and arguments are fatally defective, but indicators that the assertions/arguments are not, by themselves, 100% conclusive.
"Thanks to Liddy Dole, she's not allowed to drink anything."
She can drink semen.
I absolutely believe that if this were a white president proposing the same things these people wouldn't get off their asses and protest. Just like they didn't care when Bush was pushing Medicare Part D without proposing how to pay for it.
But Obama *is* a white president (that is, as much white as he is black).
John,
I agree with that.
TAO, MNG,
Which one of you can piss farther?
Dems screaming racism is only going to play badly.
I don't think so. I think it's a fine strategy. Who are they really making angry about it? People who probably weren't on their side in the first place. If the circus freaks in the GOP manage to take back Congress, then they have it made. All failures can be their fault.
My prediction is that as hideous hybrid plan will be passed, a sop to insurance companies like mandated coverage and a dribble to the single-payer advocates like high floors for subsidization of the mandated coverage. The Dems have done something about healthcare; the GOP has stopped socialized medicine. Yay, America!
It will be an utter failure because it does nothing to get at the underlying causes of the spiraling costs (the 3rd party payer problem) and insurance companies with start doing everything in their power (i.e. use the government when people stop looking) to fuck people over because of poor risks eating into their profits.
The race thing is just goofy. If Al Albino proposed a big government program a lot of Americans would go apeshit.
Does anyone remember Bill Clinton's tax increase and the opposition it found? Was that "racist?"
Which one of you can piss further?
"Man, that water's cold."
"And deep too."
A lot of conservative pundits were pissed at Bush's prescription drug program. But you can see why it did not engender marches and such, it was just about meds for old people. Obama is talking about possibly changing everyone's health care. There's a big difference there!
"Other than the fact that they were black youths, what exactly made them "thugs" ??"
We'd need to see pictures in order to make that determination. But maybe they were wearing Larry Hoover shirts or something. Why don't you ask Dan Reihl instead of us, as he was actually there, dipshit.
+1 on your 3:08 post, MNG.
SF
I think they will make independents angry, or at least unsettled, by all this bitching. Remember Obama tried to stay away from the all the racism stuff when he ran. There was a reason for that. Americans are tired of that Jesse Jackson shit.
I guess I'm a racist, b/c I don't get what the Dan Reihl excerpt proves.
SF - it's going to backfire. If you want to foster resentment in white people very quickly, call them racist no matter what they do. What this reckless use of the "R" word does is that it allows actually racism to go unnoticed. Boy Who Cried Wolf and all that.
But none of them were about him being an illegitimate president nor were they about him being a secret manchurian president. Those have been reserved for the black man with the middle name Hussein.
I recall quite a bit about how Bush was an illegitimate president. (Too bad those claims were undercut when the Miami Herald actually did a complete recount of the Florida ballots, and found that, under any set of counting rules that had actually been proposed in November-December 2000, Bush won if those rules were applied consistently.)
Given the proper hull design and conditions, this actually works.
I agree with TAO on this (hey, I agreed with John for crying out loud upthread!). It's going to backfire really badly.
Kayne does like fishstdicks I hear.
Obama's going to be president as long as he wants
Wow....I doubt he will be in there 8 years at this point...but if he does make it 8 years and tries to go for a 3rd term that would be fun to watch.
She could snort some coke. Might as well get hung for stealing a sheep as a for stealing a lamb.
Oh, and while we're on the subject of government actions that made a lot of white people go ape, there's also the uproar sparked by Kelo.
Would it be racist for me to say, as I said when he was Candidate Obama, that I don't really think of him as black?
"But none of them were about him being an illegitimate president nor were they about him being a secret manchurian president."
Dude, do you not remember the past few decades? Bill Clinton was accused of having Vince Foster murdered, remember? George Bush was accused of knowing about and allowing 9/11...This is hardly remarkable stuff...The illegitimate meme was just one that was more available in regards to Obama because his dad was a furriner and his name is funny, and he did live outside of the US for a chunk of his childhood.
That's true, and that's why you're never going to see the president or his peeps complain that his opponents are racially motivated.
"I guess I'm a racist, b/c I don't get what the Dan Reihl excerpt proves."
He called black youths "thug". That's what racists do [disclaimer: Unless they are wearing Larry Hoover shirts and/or gang colors]
MNG and TAO,
I rarely hope I'm wrong, but I do in this case. The problem is that "racism" has become so toxic (as it should be) that even getting it splashed on you makes you a leper.
I agree, of course, about the diluting of racism.
It's funny: Most of the people who get maddest at being called a racist are probably not racists.
Tony - I certainly don't see the "President and his peeps" (RACIST!) falling all over themselves to nip this shit in the bud, either.
There was actually at lot of "Clinton isn't legitimate because he didn't have over 50% of the vote" stuff too. Bush I is the last President I can't remember any "illegitimate election" talk about.
I don't think the President could control this stuff, liberals don't actually get daily directions from the White House...Many liberals just can't help themselves in this area, they just gotta cry racism sometimes!
There may not have been the illegitmate meme explicitly with Bush I but there was all this kind of "he cheated" stuff over things like the Willie Horton ad.
Would it be racist for me to say, as I said when he was Candidate Obama, that I don't really think of him as black?
Of course!
Especially when it's so plainly obvious that much of the hysteria is racially motivated. But I'd be willing to offer a truce: I'll stop playing the race card if conservative whites stop playing it with regard to Obama, Sotomayor, and practically every other prominent person of color.
You rang?
Dude, yeah right. I guarantee you that falling back on the "R" word was the plan from Rahm from day one of the President's candidacy. You know how it isn't really a coincidence that all right-wingers have the same line on the same day? So too with leftist pundits.
like the Willie Horton ad
Yeah, but I think even the hardcore Dems gave it up for lost when Dukakis put on that helmet.
Is that the worst PR photo op of all time? I'm sure more damaging unposed and paparazzi shots exist (Donna Rice for one), but surely not deliberate ones.
You're not that important.
And two wrongs don't make a right (even though it would be patently silly to claim that Sotomayor's race isn't what put her over the top).
I don't think the President could control this stuff, liberals don't actually get daily directions from the White House...Many liberals just can't help themselves in this area, they just gotta cry racism sometimes!
I would agree that this probably isn't coming from Obama or from his inner white house circle...he is a smarter political actor then that. Still this feels like a concerted effort. From the looks of it it is coming from the B squad who probably don't have good polling numbers or good political annalists. Krugman and Carter being on board would seem to support this.
Is the "everyone is racist" meme a grass roots counter campaign or is it astro turf?
"Especially when it's so plainly obvious that much of the hysteria is racially motivated."
[Citation Needed...but not expected since you can't back it up with shit]
You know what? I bet some of the Democratic leadership backed Obama precisely because they thought he'd be coated with racial Teflon when he and Congress started pushing a radical agenda without modern precedent. Is that racism? Is the race card a shield or a sword?
About Sotomayor. . .didn't she open the door to claims of irrational bias with her comments and opinions that seem motivated strictly by identity politics? I'm not sure one can discount her opposition as strictly sexist, racist, or whatever. My absolute first choice for the Supreme Court is a black woman. 'Cause I like her limited government viewpoints. Bet virtually all libertarians and a large number of Republicans would agree.
Where was all the Republican condemnation of Condoleezza Rice's appointment to SoS? She was a black female, right? Someone who all Republicans secretly want to enslave and strip of the vote?
Cause Obama and Sotomayor were so qualified for their positions as to make the question of race unjustified.
It was sufficiently clear that in both cases race played a positive role in getting them to where they are. Pointing that out doesn't make one a racist, unless viewed from a racist liberals perspective.
I think it's liberals, who tend to be sensitive (often oversensitive) to race issues, trying to explain the motivation behind protesters who are so painfully ignorant of the facts behind what they're protesting.
Tony-troll says "Painfully ignorant = not agreeing with Tony-Troll"
"Is that the worst PR photo op of all time?"
Nope. This was:
http://www.imao.us/archives/001734.html
Tony,
Please stop mocking yourself.
Than is all.
Is the "everyone is racist" meme a grass roots counter campaign or is it astro turf?
Neither. Being aware of racism (good thing) became looking for racism (neutral thing) and if you look for something hard enough you'll find it (bad thing.) It's really just the unintended consequence of stamping out most acts of racism, the stamping felt so good that moved on to trying to suppress racist thoughts.
A Clockwork Orange is the most important book of our time for understanding the right and left extremes in America. It's not enough to act correctly, you have to think correctly.
Plus we've seen this show before. If there's a way to get southern conservative whites fired up the likes of Dick Armey and Karl Rove aren't going to refuse to do it no matter how tasteless. The conventional narrative of the 2004 election is that Kerry lost because Bush was able to get enough die-hards out to vote against the existential threat posed by the gays. The story, to me, is not so much that there's a vast army of KKK devotees, but a large number of southern white conservatives who are able to be strongly motivated by the threat of the "other" and a GOP machine that has been using this strategy for 40 years.
Shorter Tony: Liberals pulled the racism thing out of their asses 'cuz they don't like the protestors.
Tony-troll is afraid of that nearly-non-existent, and certainly powerless, Bogeyman, the Southern White Conservative.
You know what? I bet some of the Democratic leadership backed Obama precisely because they thought he'd be coated with racial Teflon when he and Congress started pushing a radical agenda without modern precedent. Is that racism? Is the race card a shield or a sword?
I was just thinking that a little while ago, but also, they would've had a similar situation with Hillary Clinton. "You're just opposing her because she's a WOMAN! Misogynist!"
Plus we've seen this show before. If there's a way to get southern conservative whites fired up the likes of Dick Armey and Karl Rove aren't going to refuse to do it no matter how tasteless. The conventional narrative of the 2004 election is that Kerry lost because Bush was able to get enough die-hards out to vote against the existential threat posed by the gays. The story, to me, is not so much that there's a vast army of KKK devotees, but a large number of southern white conservatives who are able to be strongly motivated by the threat of the "other" and a GOP machine that has been using this strategy for 40 years.
[citation needed}
The "Southern White Conservative" is actually the liberal version of the "other". Proof? The fact that the protestors were not solely, or even majorly, made up of Southern White Conservatives.
Where was all the Republican condemnation of Condoleezza Rice's appointment to SoS? She was a black female, right? Someone who all Republicans secretly want to enslave and strip of the vote?
I secretly wanted her to enslave me. But I'm not a Republican, so I guess I don't count in that regard.
Federal Dog,
I don't know. Maybe Kerry was stupider because he should have known better from Dukakis' example, but pioneers in stupidity are also pretty special. Kerry just showed himself as a dork, something we already knew. Dukakis' main weakness was Cold War military authority, something he proved lacked in that silly picture.
Sort of the difference between diving into the shallow end and diving into a completely empty pool.
Fine, here.
Tony,
Please stop mocking yourself.
Than is all.
Well to give Tony some credit he is a lefty who is simply calling the protesters ignorant rather then calling them racists.
That is progress. I actually feel sorry for Tony. The back lash from the "racist" meme is going to be severe and will hurt his position even though he did not spread the meme.
The same can be said about Obama himself.
"The conventional narrative of the 2004 election is that Kerry lost because Bush was able to get enough die-hards out to vote against the existential threat posed by the gays."
What??
"In American politics, the Southern strategy refers to a purported Republican method of winning Southern states in the latter decades of the 20th century and first decade of the 21st century by exploiting opposition among the conservative South to the cultural upheaval of New Left, Vietnam protests, and the Hippie culture. Some analysts think widespread demographic shifts and the election of Barack Obama as president in 2008 are signs that the Southern strategy is declining in significance."
Notice the word in bold type?
Per Dictionary.com
-adjective
reputed or claimed; alleged: We saw no evidence of his purported wealth.
Now, you link to a site that says it was claimed, and THAT is your citation? Dude, you need to really rethink that strategy.
Are you one of the ones claiming there were literally gazillions and billions of teabaggers present? How do you know who made up the majority? All I saw were a bunch of honkies.
Federal Dog,
I believe that is referring to all of the ballot initiatives regarding the banning of gay marriage. The idea was to get social conservatives out en masse to vote on them, and also vote (R) while in the ballot booth.
Tomcat1066,
Yeah and I'm purporting this to be an extension of the purported strategy. Not too familiar with political history are you?
Obama needs to learn the first rule of frog-boiling.
"I believe that is referring to all of the ballot initiatives regarding the banning of gay marriage."
Thanks for the explanation. The poster really is crazy if he is trying to suggest that that was the principal issue in that election.
I secretly wanted her to enslave me.
Yah. Those black high-heel boots were teh hawt, no question.
Yeah and I'm purporting this to be an extension of the purported strategy.
So the TEA parties are an emanation of a penumbra of the Southern Strategy?
I hate to sort of agree with Tony troll but here goes.
Yes, many (most?) of the taxpayer protesters are ignorant. I go to protests to pick up women (it's a meat market guys!). There all populated by ignorant people, left or right.
an emanation of a penumbra
I love it when you talk dirty.
There all populated by ignorant people
the lack of an exception proves the rule
I think a major factor in the hysteria on both sides is that some people build their identity around who their political opponents are.
In addition to the knee jerk support/opposition to the policies even when "their side" was exposing the same thing mere months ago, their sense of self becomes wrapped up in their contempt for the other side - their ability to see themselves as good people becomes linked to seeing their "enemy" as consisting of bad people. The eviler and more powerful their foe is, the more righteous and courageous they are for standing up to them. Thus, they develop a very powerful psychological need to have enemies and for those enemies to be powerful and evil, since their own self worth is derived from their opposition to them. They'll believe nearly anything negative said about their foe since it isn't just an insult to their foe, it's a complement to them. It's the neurotic love child of fear of The Other and comfirmation bias and the bread and butter of organized politics.
No racism here either:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fymdNxn82M
why doesn't Obama just resign? It would defuse all the racism and everyone would go along with Joe Biden because he's white and we could have single payer tomorrow.
Keep doing what you are doing Chi-com Tom. Find all those racist under every rock. Expose them. Don't stop now when you are just building some momentum on that train. It's important that you yell it out as shrill as you can until you get horse, as loudly, in as public a forum as you can. By God, my party may just have a chance, after all!
Oh, the anti-Capitalist stuff. Don't forget that. Add that in every time because the American people just eat that up like gravy on a biscuit. That is why Michael Moore is so popular with them. You are doing great.
FTR,
Dr. William Frist, former U.S. Senator | September 16, 2009, 4:01pm was me. I hate it when I do that.
There's a secret agreement that if Obama resigns, dies, becomes mentally incompetent, or otherwise has to leave office, Joe Biden can only succeed him if he gets a lobotomy first.
Oh, whatever you do, never admit that you are wrong. It will make you look human and vulnerable just like your enemies want you to appear. Don't give in. Keep fighting!
This is rapidly becoming a litmus test for who is a complete flaming assclown retard that is wasting perfectly good 02 that would be better spent on a Peruvian Dung Beetle.
The list already posted is a veritable who's who of stupid fucking people.
The pep talk given to the Secret Service's presidential protection detail every morning is
There are some seriously motivated people guarding the president.
"Obama needs to learn the first rule of frog-boiling."
That they taste just like chicken?
This thread is rather like the Sept. 12 rally: A few thoughtful commenters, a lot of crackpots and more than a smattering of retards.
The contrast between the intelligence of the writing on this blog and the intelligence of many of the commentators here who seem to be of the same ideological stripe is astonishing.
So, there are no racists involved in TEA protests? There are some racists, but they don't matter? The race thing is a distraction cooked up by liberals and the media? White racist southerners are a myth?
Unless all of those people showing up to health care town halls and TEA parties waving their guns around and nonsensically calling Obama both a Marxist and a fascist are just the computer generated creations of MSNBC, claiming the insane haven't hijacked a good portion of both the conservative and libertarian debate just seems willfully ignorant.
It's the same as claiming the anti-Iraq war protests weren't bogged down in trust fund babies. Or that a large percentage of the Republican electorate has no problem with two men getting married. Or that a lot of the people handing out Ron Paul bumper stickers last year weren't 9/11 Truthers.
As much as everyone would like the debate to be about the merits of ideas, racists, Birthers, and "death panel" conspiracy theorists have taken the podium. Ignoring that fact won't make it go away.
ChicagoTom Leaves and Tony immediately shows up.
Tony Leaves and ChicagoTom shows up a few minutes later.
Odd that.
Race Baiting for Dummies,
ChicagoTom is pretty long winded and makes extensive use of strawman arguments, Tony is more succinct but his arguments tend to have logical holes.
Is this racist? You be the judge.
I see a lot of disgust at Obama on sites like democraticunderground because he is not far left enough on many issues.
Perhaps we should label those people as racists?
For a group so concerned about straw man arguments, saying those who point out the racist motivations of many anti-Obama protesters are painting all protesters as racists is itself a straw man argument.
Which one of you can piss further?
"Man, that water's cold."
"And deep too."
And muddy at the bottom.
The contrast between the intelligence of the writing on this blog and the intelligence of many of the commentators here who seem to be of the same ideological stripe is astonishing.
This your first time on the Internets?
"Joe Biden can only succeed him if he gets a lobotomy first"
Joe has kindly made advance preparations.
@Kunal
I'm used to the sites I enjoy having a nice mix of thoughtful discussion and batshit crazy ranting. Not a dull sheen of witless mediocrity and Jay Leno-caliber Joe Biden jokes.
The contrast between the intelligence of the writing on this blog and the intelligence of many of the commentators here who seem to be of the same ideological stripe is astonishing.
Why, why, ... Thank you!
Race is a red herring. Regardless of whether some opponents to the reform plan are racists. There are not only substantial reasons for opposing the plans on the table (as they change from week to week), there are few reasons for supporting these plans. Talk real reform--deregulation, reduction of direct government involvement in healthcare, etc.--and then we'll listen politely. Keep up the nonsense that the president and the Congress are spouting, and a large percentage of us will continue to run away and think about voting against the status quo in 2010 and 2012.
I think it's absolutely pathetic that NO ONE supporting the "reform" can stick for twenty seconds on the actual provisions of the reform or actually stick to the truth about what's being proposed. If Congress and the president were serious and honest, they'd put socialized medicine on the table and defend it. Since they can't do that without getting clobbered politically, they bullshit and redirect the argument to irrelevancies like racist charges. Which have absolutely nothing to do with the merit of their case. Look, over there, it's a guy who doesn't like black people!
Identity politics--it's what's for dinner!
I was contemplating whether or not I should be ramping up my reality troll filter and setting it to ignore all Democrats, but ChiTom sealed it for me.
They have ceased to be a group of people who are worth listening to, for any reason. It's just one contrived lie or slur after another now. They have reached null data value, and should be thusly ignored.
Oh, and fuck you ChiTom, you slobbering, partisan hack.
Carefully placing the ball on the tee for the XVII World Series of Tee-Ball, President Biden heard the distinct sound of knuckles cracking which given to the nearness of No. 8's aluminum bat to his trio of otic bones and the slow connection of stimulus to pain, he only lately realized the gravity of injury to the hand that was to shortly sign into law the stimulus of all stimuli...
...what's wrong with being a racist, anyway? Are you some kind of bigots, or something? Racists are people too!
Wow, missed a hell of a thread here.
@SF and Brian Thomas
I did not have sexual relations with that clich?
If something ironically clich?d becomes common does Schr?dinger's cat die?
Racism: denying other humans to a subhuman designation so as to deny them their rightful rights as fellow humans. Science tried to establish subhuman status through Phrenology and other studies. Outcome: Phrenology showed that we are all one species without even a subspecific nominator.
Counter-racism: catching up the law with science to provide full human legal status for all and guaranteeing their inherent rights.
Bigotry: the pervasive categorization of fellow humans based on melanistic qualities and cultural qualities that does not deprive them of their fundamental rights (Merely calling someone a racial epithet or thinking it or as in our case being accused of implying it by prejudiced judges.) Unfortunately, ignorance is the default for humanity, but the First Ammendment trumps them. It presupposes (correctly, I believe) that the truth will prevail in the marketplace of ideas.
Racism is fortunately illegal in our country. Bigotry is protected by the first ammendment along with a litany of ideas to which I strongly take exception.
The President of the United States should always be open to derision, ridicule, hatred, ridiculous ad hominems, spam, junk mail, infomercials, racist diatribes, pyramid schemes, partisan attacks, bogus accusations, inflammatory rhetoric, drunk-dialing, free blow-jobs in the White House, free phonics lessons, etc.
Racism would proscribe Mr. Obama ever becoming President.
I find the quality of discourse among the habitues of the site sophomorically named "Hit & Run" to be puerile in the extreme.
"Condoleeza Rice...She was a black female, right?"
WRONG. She was an Aunt Thomasina to the race-baiting faction of the Left.
"But when there was nothing like these protests while Bush took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit, started a senseless war and legitimized torture, then I'm suspicious about the motives of the protesters."
Another 'Truther'? President Bush did NOT have slimey, scummy, jihad bastards fly airplanes into the Twin Towers, the Pentagon or the ground.
He didn't have them blow up embassies or the Cole years earlier either.
Oh, wait, you are cool with that war, right? Sorry.
"But when there was nothing like these protests while Bush took a surplus and turned it into a huge deficit, started a senseless war and legitimized torture, then I'm suspicious about the motives of the protesters."
The "senseless" war would be the one where Iraq constantly violated the terms of their surrender and shot at American and French pilots for a decade before Bush gave them an ass kicking, right?
Once Hillary Clinton lost the nomination to Mr. Obama, some of my bigoted Democrat friends temerously voted for Obama. They voted for their team, NOT necessarily for Obama. Right now they are saying nothing because they like Obama's agenda.
Discuss.
Once Hillary Clinton lost the nomination to Mr. Obama, some of my bigoted Democrat friends temerously voted for Obama. They voted for their team, NOT necessarily for Obama. Right now they are saying nothing because they like Obama's agenda.
Just like the feminists shudder who supported Clinton after all of his stuff? I am never using that term for me again.
I share SugarFree's contempt for anyone trying to lump a libertarian in with Glenn Beck or any other freakazoid simply because there is an overlap over profligate spending, Federal Government takeover, etc. If Beck et al. are johnny-come-latelies, then take them to task for that. Anyone who has regulary read comment threads here knows they are being dishonest to try to categorize posters into any kind of ant-farm. It is akin to assigning 'other' as a unified category.
I share SugarFree's contempt for anyone trying to lump a libertarian in with Glenn Beck or any other freakazoid simply because there is an overlap over profligate spending, Federal Government takeover, etc.
You racist! Glenn Beck is the tea-baggers' leader! Why do you have a racist leader, racist?
Suki,
Everyone knows that Hillary wore the pantsuit (now she's moved on to more matronly wear as Madame Sec.) in that family. I always remember Bob Packwood, a Republican-in-name who lost his seat simply because he was a Republican-in-name.
Ya'll gonna get me started again...I may have to change my tag to "Angry Black Male."
Oh, and Tony SHUT UP!
Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed lurking this thread. Just one little thing:
THIS is why no one can have an intelligent conversation with you. I have been waiting patiently for someone else to poke a hole in this.
Slick Willie Clinton WAS the Manchurian Candi
date in conspiracy theory lore. No one remembers all the chatter about his London days, his visit to Moscow, how he supposedly was a Communist mole who was selling all of our military secrets to the Red Chinese?? Nobody?
Those who cannot remember their histrionics are condemned to repeat them.
Ad hoc is no longer a functioning term. You MUST chose a team and if you don't you will be assigned one by the Ministry of Political Team Assignment.
Everyone knows that Hillary wore the pantsuit (now she's moved on to more matronly wear as Madame Sec.) in that family. I always remember Bob Packwood, a Republican-in-name who lost his seat simply because he was a Republican-in-name.
Um, dear sir, I was referring to the William of the Clinton clan, not the house boss.
KFP is correct on that one. Clinton the Rhodes Scholar>Cecil Rhodes>"Paint the World Red". Remember it or not, the connection was made before the internet and not exclusively in conspiracy theory private mailings.
Of course, Suki, just adding emphasis that the shudder was a feigned one.
Please Double D,
You are an angry individual like a lot of us here. Stop bringing 'race' and sex into the equation. I realize the 'extra' texture of the 'Uncle Tom'-bullshit, but man up (We only know you here by what you write, we can't see you.)
Otherwise, you fall prey into the senseless 'race' debate perpetrated by a certain faction of the Democratic Party and its counter mirror image in the Republican Party.
Of course, Suki, just adding emphasis that the shudder was a feigned one.
It wern't feigned, it were maybe a differn't context than ya took it. Was shuddering at the term being useless now.
jester,
That's exactly my point. I'm trying to point out to the idiot trolls that the protesters are AMERICANS. Not just "white Americans." So the majority of the crowds are white? So what, the majority of the COUNTRY is white. What does it matter?
The racism meme just pisses me off. I'm letting these jackasses know that being conservative, libertarian, or just plain not liking Obama or Democrat policies is not exclusively white, Republican, or racist.
As usual the opponents of any kind of restriction on the illegal immigration, is playing the race card? It's a forgone conclusion that the benefactors of promoting a mass invasion of our shores, such as religious groups, unions, ACLU, radical ethnic caucuses and even our own US Chamber of Commerce, will mouth epithets that doesn't benefit big business, that doesn't advocate a continuous force of illegal cheap labor. Now they are really livid because their objection to E-Verify was thrown out of court. Now all federal contractors and subcontractors must adhere to the law. They have conspired against the American worker and people for too long, and now we are fighting back ourselves against corrupt politicians and other elected officials nationwide,
Rep.Joe Wilson was actually telling the truth at the time, and now Democrats have placed restrictive language in the Health care reform package as a reluctant afterthought by public demand. This was nothing to do about bigotry or racism, but the American workers and family survival. None of the business community who hire them wants their labor, but forces the taxpayer to carry the financial load. The US labor force should not have to be in competition, with people from other countries. Businesses have already offshore American jobs, because it's cheaper? So every illegal foreign national and family member should be exempt from government run health care, jobs and all the billions of taxpayer dollars secretly allocated to pay for their support. Twenty million plus illegal people compromised themselves, when they entered a sovereign nation without permission. Find out the truth at NUMBERSUSA, JUDICIAL WATCH and contact your politician at 202-224-3121 demanding no weakening conditions to E-Verify or any other law authored by Congress.
Brittanicus, sir, you're the one bringing race into the equation. A lot of Europeans would like to work in our country as well. Idiot bureaucracy vs. the market: I choose the market everytime. If you can't find fault with the HealthCare proposal in and of its self and have to bring immigration into the picture, sir, lonewacko is alone no more.
and DD, well done.
The contrast between the intelligence of the writing on this blog and the intelligence of many of the commentators here who seem to be of the same ideological stripe is astonishing.
So, there are no racists involved in TEA protests? There are some racists, but they don't matter? The race thing is a distraction cooked up by liberals and the media? White racist southerners are a myth?
Oh, my, smelling salts for m'lady?
Have you seen my pantaloons? Do you think I need another layer of cake flour on the visage?
Oh, those indelicate libertarian commentators, they make me feel so riled!
Keep up the nonsense that the president and the Congress are spouting, and a large percentage of us will continue to run away and think about voting against the status quo in 2010 and 2012.
Good argument from beginning to the end, PL. I swear, way back in 2006, I was pretty damn happy that the Republicans lost control of the Congress because of their mismanagement. I was even hoping Pelosi would give us some show trials of Bush officials behaving badly. Now, I can't wait until the Republicans regain control. God, these morons make me nauseous. From comments from the likes of ChiTom, to the left blogosphere, to the wretched masses in the White House and the Halls of Congress, never has such a sickly excuse for humanity tried to ride in on a white horse.
The humorous aspect of this entire affair is that, because the paranoia of the left is as unworthy of attention as the "racism" of the right, there is absolutely no reason to take seriously the entire Democratic party.
It makes for great politics... the government gets nothing done while the paranoid left and parnoid right refuse to even entertain each other's perspective/input/views. It's pathologically self-destructive. The left brings down their own presidency.
by the way, has anyone noticed that it's now the left that plays the "race card" (anti-Obamaism) and uses wedge issues (Creigh Deeds in Virginia)? clearly, like the republicans of yesteryear, the left has no real ideas so they have to resort to the politics of distraction and fear.
"has anyone noticed..."
you're kidding right? Understatement is a great angle at irony.
i live in a university town. ignorance is a community value.
you're kidding right?
Indeed.
In fact, David Duke made more than one antiwar speech in the past few years.
How would they respond if someone were to cry racism when someone proposed stricter gun regulations?
We should remember that in 2004, Barack Obama conspired with the Chicago Tribune and a corrupt judge to unseal the divorce records of his opponent in the U.S. Senate race.
That should never be forgotten and never forgiven.
If it's now racist to criticize the president, then I guess I was racist when I criticized Bush and I guess I'm racist now when I criticize Obama.
Maybe 'racist' should become the new 'queer' and have the air taken out of it. It's getting to the point where we are all racists now.
Everyone on the planet is prejudiced so maybe it will be a good thing to kill off that word and get people talking about prejudice instead.
"For a group so concerned about straw man arguments, saying those who point out the racist motivations of many anti-Obama protesters are painting all protesters as racists is itself a straw man argument"
Isn't the straw man argument to take an isolated incident and apply it to many?
In this case the "racist" were the isolated and you seem to be making them the many?
Are you not invoking the straw man?
Racism is dead, thankfully. The law changed that. Bigotry is alive and well and probably will never be stamped out, especially if there is a concerted effort to do so, simply because it steps on free speech rights.
Instead, bigotry could be shamed out of existence (as in shut the fuck up lonewacko), but longtime visitors to this site will see that at least one generation is necessary for that to happen.
+1 on the Condi Rice love.
jester,
good points.
Miss Rice, I'm single, too!
thanks for the +1. I might need it in the future when we disagree (but I hope not.)
-Your arm is off.
-No it's not.
-Then, what's that?
-I've had worse!
-YOU LIE!
This is actually a positive development. 10 months into Obama's term and most people are already sick and tired of hearing the word "racist". By the end of 4 years, using it in public will probably get your teeth knocked out of your face for you. This is a Good Thing.
At least in that respect, the Obama presidency will be a very, very positive influence on America!
From comments from the likes of ChiTom, to the left blogosphere, to the wretched masses in the White House and the Halls of Congress, never has such a sickly excuse for humanity tried to ride in on a white horse ass. (Ass as in donkey)
FTFY
Tomcat1066,
Yeah and I'm purporting this to be an extension of the purported strategy.
So you're just this side of pulling it out of your ass? Glad you finally admit it.
Tomcat1066,
Not too familiar with political history are you?
Irrelevant, but actually I am. I'm simply showing how idiotic your use of that source is you pompous dipshit. Come on, you could at least come up with something better...because frankly I think they did do just that. But if you're so much of a fucking idiot to not find something better than a wikipedia entry that just says that some people say it and call that a citation, then you're truly as irrelevant to any discussion as the turd I flushed earlier this morning.
"What won't stop is the growing hatred toward a young President based on his beliefs and the color of his skin."
Nice phrasing here, delegimatizing opposition based on a difference in political beliefs by throwing it in with opposition based on race. Cute, bad faith hack writing, but cute.
@Radcliff
The fact that I'm wearing pink short-shorts and fiddling with my mangina right now doesn't make your arguments any more compelling.
@schempft
You're assuming the paranoid racists in the TEA party movement are somehow isolated. Even if they aren't the majority of the national movement, they aren't isolated. Go to any southern local newspaper's website and read the letters to the editor about Obama. Better yet, read the comments. Watch Glenn Beck, one of the leading figures in this movement, talk about how Obama's policies are shaped by his hatred of white people.
Before you claim I'm tossing out another straw man in the shape of Glenn Beck, you should consider that even though you may not be a fan of his, his ratings are large enough to be something more than an isolated distraction.
Reasonable, intelligent people may be making reasonable, intelligent arguments at these protests, but the crazies have control of the message. This is because they're loud and many. And you aren't helping your own cause by pretending this isn't the case.
On another note, I also give Condi Rice four out of five boners. But then again, I'm a sub.
Brian, the worst thing you can say about Beck is that he claims Obama has a hatred of white people?
That's pretty thin. Especially since many of Obama's supporters do seem to have a hatred of white people that don't bow down before the messiah. Calling mass groups of people 'racists' for no reason counts as hatred in my book.
I don't agree with all of what Glenn Beck says, but he is more on the mark than the rest of the MSM these days. It is news and important that Obama hired Van Jones who was a former communist and Truther. Beck covered the story while the rag NYT tried to cover it up.
Beck is over the top, but that's his schtick.
@JB
"Especially since many of Obama's supporters do seem to have a hatred of white people that don't bow down before the messiah. Calling mass groups of people 'racists' for no reason counts as hatred in my book."
Both you and Beck appear particularly adept at contradicting yourselves in two sentences or less.
"Libertarians love to peddle the delusion that we live in a post racial America."
No, we WANT that to happen, Tom. It's a handful of right-wing malcontents, aided and abetted by the majority of the left-of-center, that keep fanning the racism flames.
Obama could go on TV and say something about this, but he's too much of a chickenshit and, therefore, has his mouthpiece Gibbs go out and fumble his way through some lame-assed explanation.
Oh, and you can take that anti-capitalist attitude and shove it up your ass, then tell us what the freedom-friendly replacement for capitalism would be. (Hint: There isn't one.)
JB | September 16, 2009, 11:32pm | #
If it's now racist to criticize the president, then I guess I was racist when I criticized Bush and I guess I'm racist now when I criticize Obama.
close JB...if you lived it you'd remember we are racist now, but we were anti-semites last year.
If you don't like Paul Wolfowitz it is obvious that you are a joooo hater!