Intactvists Mark Genital Integrity Awareness Week with White House Protest

Protesters against male circumcision marched outside the White House this week to mark Genital Integrity Awareness Week. The foreskin defenders, who call themselves "intactivists," want a federal ban on infant circumcision. As the Washington Post reports:

How intactivists define circumcision: a cruel, traumatic and unnecessary surgery (the American Academy of Pediatrics says the benefits are not sufficient enough to recommend the procedure) that causes enduring sexual and psychological injury to a helpless infant who can't give his consent.

How much of the medical community defines circumcision: a simple, nearly painless operation that removes an obsolete part of the body that can increase a man's susceptibility to infections and sexually transmitted diseases (circumcision reduces the risk of getting HIV by 60 percent, studies show).

How religion defines circumcision: as a covenant with God, as conveyed to Abraham.

It's a lopsided fight, but each side has doctors and lawyers. Each side has data. Each accuses the other of denial. One side is labeled as a bunch of baby-cutting sex criminals. The other is labeled as sex-obsessed, fanatical loonies who are duping the public.

Interestingly, numerous reports have found that circumcision reduces the chance of being infected with HIV and a study out last week in the New England Journal of Medicine found:

Heterosexual men who undergo medical circumcision can significantly reduce their risk of acquiring two common sexually transmitted infections--herpes simplex virus type 2 (HSV-2), the cause of genital herpes, and human papillomavirus (HPV), which can cause cancer and genital warts…." 

On the other hand, a study published in 2007 found that circumcision may reduce sexual sensation: 

…the transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. It appears that circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

Tradeoffs. Always damned tradeoffs! 

Comments

[OO===D]

hmmmm... This looks interesting.

[TofuSushi]

Damn it! The Egyptian cock beat me.

[Naga Sadow]

I'm beginning to suspect TofuSushi is one of the Reason staff trolling the threads . . . I'm on to you!

[SugarFree]

The Egyptian cock beat me.

The horrors of his childhood back to haunt him anew.

[Naga Sadow]

Everybody got a gri-gri as Penn Jillete has stated before . . .

[Naga Sadow]

Thanks for the mental image SugarFree.

*shakes fist in direction of Kentucky*

[Episiarch]

Rice Mascot: You don't think they're...dicking around over there, do ya?

Mr. Wong Burger: I doubt it. They're professional dick hunters. They crave dick...as we all do.

[SugarFree]

Don't make it illegal, but don't dress it up in "prevention."

Mutilating the sexual organs of a infant is a bad idea. In a sane world this would be a fairly uncontroversial statement.

[sage]

That picture instead should be of a covered wagon.

[D.A. Ridgely]

[Insert "Rabbis get salaries but mohels get all the tips" joke here.]

[SugarFree]

"When you rub it, it becomes a briefcase."

[SugarFree]

Shaken fist energy is how we power our meth labs, Naga. Thank you.

[Naga Sadow]

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!

LMAO!

[Episiarch]

Mutilating the sexual organs of a infant is a bad idea.

I blame the Jews. See how easy that is? Now I understand the Nazis!

GODWIN

[Naga Sadow]

SugarFree,

What? You guys aren't using the stoves in your campers anymore? For a while down here apparently people were using their FEMA trailers to cook meth in.

[semm]

There is no tradeoff. By the time a person had reached sexual maturity they can decide for themselves if they would rather have decreased STD risk or increased sensation.

There is no argument for allowing this procedure to be done to someone wihtout thier consent. The only upside to the bad situation is that the foreskin can be regrown. See Penn and Teller's BS episode on circumscision.

[yet another dave]

in canada we call it a toque, and when it's cold it's nice to pull one"s toque over one's ears

[Abdul]

The only upside to the bad situation is that the foreskin can be regrown

It hasn't regrown on me and it's been about 37 years since I joined the Abraham's covenant with Yahweh.

[SugarFree]

Kentucky is on the cutting-edge of Green meth-production technology. Scrap wood-burning, bio-diesel, and child labor are all being used to save on fossil fuel usage. The average gram of Kentucky green-tech meth has a carbon footprint of less than one metric ton. Beat that, Mexico!

[Naga Sadow]

Whoa! One of those activist dudes is on the thread.

Semm,

Legal guardians decision NOT the baby's.

[semm]

Abdul:

CAN be rgrown. You have to apply pressure to it for it to grow back. There are several types of small weights which you can purchase to do this if you are interested. I'm sure you cna find them on the internet if you wish

[Naga Sadow]

SugarFree,

Indeed. Though you could argue that Mississippi's is a more mature industry that needs loans(FEMA grants) and capital infusions(FEMA trailers). We're to big to fail! Systemic risk and what not.

[yet another dave]

I've always loved that
god "abe you see that skin around the end of you cock that I gave you?"

abe "yea?"

god "cut it off"

abe "okay"

[Semm]

Naga:

Logically then you would support the right of the guardians to consent to other procedure on the baby's behalf? Where do you draw the line? How about female circumscision? How about an amputation of a limb to conform to the parents religious beliefs?

Here we have a case where there is no upside, since the only noted benefit, STD risk reduction, can be done later in life.

[SugarFree]

Boo! Let them go bankrupt and reorganize to cut down on labor and contract costs. The meth producer pension debacle is not the taxpayers problem!

[Naga Sadow]

Semm,

You are unaware of snark my friend.

[Minute Man]

I sure as hell don't need any more sensation. It's a lasting problem.

[Naga Sadow]

SugarFree,

Year after year, decade after decade, we have seen problems papered-over and tough choices kicked down the road, even as foreign competitors outpaced us. Well, we have reached the end of that road.

We cannot, we must not, and we will not let our meth industry simply vanish. But we also cannot continue to excuse poor decisions.

And we cannot make the survival of our meth industry dependent on an unending flow of tax dollars. These companies -- and this industry -- must ultimately stand on their own, not as wards of the state.

[Naga Sadow]

I gotta go. Later.

[Atanarjuat]

I made absolutely sure no sharp objects went near my son's junk. His #$(*&@# decision.

It was kind of creepy how everyone kept pressuring me to get it done too. At one point an older female relative actually said, "Think about when he's older, no one will want to suck on an uncircumcised penis--ew!"

[Silentz]

Naga Sadow | March 31, 2009, 12:50pm | #
Semm,

You are unaware of snark my friend.

Naga, he's new around here. You gotta ease them into the full fledged snark. It's a bit overwhelming to some.

[Cabeza De Vaca]

If God is infallible why cut off part of his creation?

[ikky007]

if you think that's a resonable arguement you know nothing of God

[Episiarch]

You have to apply pressure to it for it to grow back. There are several types of small weights which you can purchase to do this if you are interested

semm, does it look something like this?

[jtuf]

semm, your proposal to just delay circumcism until adulthood has a catch. Major rewiring of the nervous system occurs in the first year of life. Delaying circumcism until adulthood might mean loosing even more sensitivity, because the nerves for detecting and processing touch on the forskin can't switch their focus to surrounding areas as easily at that late stage. It's kind of like the difference between someone who is born blind and someone who becomes blind as an adult. I know many people experience problems with phantom limbs after an amputation. This might also be a problem for people who get circumcised as an adult, but I'm not sure on that.

[Warty]

I have a suggestion: let's not amputate any healthy part of any child.

[J sub D]

CAN be rgrown. You have to apply pressure to it for it to grow back. There are several types of small weights which you can purchase to do this if you are interested. I'm sure you cna find them on the internet if you wish

No thanks. That's already TMI.

[alittlesense]

JTUF: There's a joke somewhere in there about "The Phantom Menace" but I just can't find it.........

[J sub D]

Naga, he's new around here. You gotta ease them into the full fledged snark. It's a bit overwhelming to some.

I railed against the evils of BJs correctly pointing out that it's sodomy and God nuked a city over that stuff once.

Someone took it seriously.

[The Angry Optimist]

Semm - logically, would you forbid a legal guardian from consenting on behalf of the child? Where do YOU draw that line? No penicillin?

[SugarFree]

J sub D,

Anyone who objects to sodomy is an asshole.

[jtuf]

Semm, the vast majority of people missing an arm would like to get it back. The vast majority of men missing a forskin never gave it's absence a second thought. I don't think any negative consequences of circumcism are severe enough to justify overriding parents.

[Episiarch]

NutraSweet, here's a song for you.

[Taktix?]

It is really medically feasable later in life? I mean, I would assume any manner of boner would cause the wound to reopen.

Not that I defend the involuntary abuse of children, but if there's a time for the parents to decide to do it, I would assume infancy would be best...

[jtuf]

The scientific article on the loss of sensitivity is here. Give me an hour to read it, and then I'll post a review. If anyone wants a review of the article on disease prevention, just link to it and I'll be happy to read it over.

[jtuf]

From the abstract of the sensitivity article:

Circumcised and uncircumcised men were compared using mixed models for repeated data, controlling for age, type of underwear worn, time since last ejaculation, ethnicity, country of birth, and level of education.

That last factor just struck me. Why would level of education and penis sensitivity be correlated?

[val]

If I remember correctly the study regarding disease prevention had some flaws with it.
Specifically the major study done in Africa, did not account for social circumstances of the subjects, where a male child from a family that is willing to undergo a circumcision and is able to afford, is already at a much lower risk due to the more religious upbringing, hence the circumcision, and the better financial status and hence better education and position later in life. I didn't review the study myself obviously, that was just one of major criticisms of the study that I ran across when it came out

[Guy Smiley]

The prepuce is more sensitive than the glans? What? No fucking way...

I had no foreskin, but it seems to me that if you have a foreskin, then when you get laid, half of the time you are banging your own foreskin.

And that makes God angry.

[Kyle Jordan]

"It is really medically feasable later in life? I mean, I would assume any manner of boner would cause the wound to reopen."

Yes it is feasible and happens. My father had a second circumcision a couple of years before he passed away. The surgeon explained to him that an erection would probably not reopen the wound but to err on the side of caution and try not be become aroused. Though apparently, the general pain was enough for that not to be an issue.

[Toxic]

So what was the justification before they knew about AIDS?

Also, you know what is way better at preventing AIDS transmission? Castration.

Or you could just tell your kid to wear a rubber and let him keep his dong intact.

[val]

The prepuce is more sensitive than the glans? What? No fucking way..

I think the idea is the protective layer around the glans makes the glans more sensitive. Once thats removed, the glans is exposed to the elements (or your tidy-whiteys) and becomes less sensitive.

[Sol Rosenberg]

I've got these warts on my ass and genitals, and they're all silly looking...

[Guy Smiley]

val,

But that's not what the blurb in the post said, it said,

...the transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis.

[val]

So what was the justification before they knew about AIDS?

Also, you know what is way better at preventing AIDS transmission? Castration.

Or you could just tell your kid to wear a rubber and let him keep his dong intact.

That was actually another criticism related to the study. It was felt that in Africa where condoms are already not exactly favored, this study would give further excuse to avoid the prophylactic. The risk reduction with a circumcision in the study was infinitismal compared to the risk reduction with a condom.

[SugarFree]

Africa, Jews, and STDs are just a distraction. The vast majority of circumcision in this country are due to silly hygiene panics and the desire to not to have your son "look funny." Millions of boys mutilated based on shoddy fad science and fashion.

Don't make it illegal, but don't encourage it either and certainly don't make the "default setting." If the benefits of sexual organ mutilation are so apparent, I'm sure a vast majority of adult men can choose it for themselves.

[wayne]

I don't think any negative consequences of circumcism are severe enough to justify overriding parents.

Then why is there such an uproar about female circumcision? It is no different.

[val]

val,

But that's not what the blurb in the post said, it said,

I'm no expert on the subject, so I'm totally prepared to eat my words.

[Guy Smiley]

and the desire to not to have your son "look funny."

Yeah, but it really does look funny, doesn't it?

[Cabeza De Vaca]

I bet female circumsion reduces STD's also. Being that since the woman can't enjoy sex she has no desire to engage in it.

[Taktix?]

So what was the justification before they knew about AIDS?

IIRC, the Bullshit! episode on this claimed that non-religious, medical circumcision came into vogue in the late 19th century to prevent adolecent males from 'batin...

[SugarFree]

Yeah, but it really does look funny, doesn't it?

It looks funny either way.

[FetusPenis]

Shrug. What's a little penis clipping when you can legally cave their skulls in and suck out their brains a few weeks earlier?

[Guy Smiley]

Then why is there such an uproar about female circumcision? It is no different.

As I understand it, female "circumcision" removes the clitoris. That would be like cutting off the glans.

That should be called "female castration". The two couldn't be farther apart. That's like calling female decapitation a hair cut.

[val]

It looks funny either way.

Fuck you guys, mine is spectacular and is the epitome of manliness. At least thats what all your moms tell me.

[Cabeza De Vaca]

There are parts of Africa where they wait till the boys are 7 years old before they do the circumsion. I watched one on tv it looked really painful.

[Drum & Drummer]

"Semm, the vast majority of people missing an arm would like to get it back. The vast majority of men missing a forskin never gave it's absence a second thought. I don't think any negative consequences of circumcism are severe enough to justify overriding parents."

I didn't know until I was in the sixth grade in th showers after basketball practice. I saw this big black uncircumcised eighth grader and I went WTF???

BTW "cum" the middle word in circumcise. Hmmm...

[Colonel_Angus]

So I lost my dick scarf when I was an infant. I never consented, it probably hurt, whatever. It get's the job done, I don't have to scrub it out, so why should I give a shit?

This seems relevant again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeCJJT0-CBo

[Rabbi Shlomo Levy]

"So what was the justification before they knew about AIDS?"

A precient G-D.

[Warty]

Guy, there are various grades of female circumcision. The most minor removes the clit hood, which is pretty much the same as male circumcision. The worst involves cutting off the clit and labia, and sewing up the vagina hole.

[J sub D]

Then why is there such an uproar about female circumcision? It is no different.

Congratulations. While that may not be the most moronic thing ever posted at H&R, it's definitely worth of top ten consideration.

[Muhammad]

"The worst involves cutting off the clit and labia, and sewing up the vagina hole."

I LOVE it!

[Warty]

why should I give a shit?

So you don't mutilate your sons' penises.

[Isaac Bartram]

non-religious, medical circumcision came into vogue in the late 19th century to prevent adolecent males from 'batin...

Doesn't seem to have worked that well.

[P Brooks]

Is there anything I care less about?

Probably, but I can't think of anything right now.

[SugarFree]

Warty,

The most minor can actually be just a tiny incision on the clitoral hood enough to draw blood. Still not pleasant, and no one makes any excuses for it.

[Warty]

SugarFree, I've heard that some Jews have a "symbolic" bris where the mohel just pricks the foreskin with a needle to draw a little bit of blood. That might be even fucking weirder than a real bris.

[jtuf]

OK, I finished the sensitivity article. It appears that there is no increased sensation in the surrounding area to compensate for the lost of the foreskin. So, from a medical perspective, I would advise following Semm's suggestion of waiting until STDs are a factor. However, I still don't think the effects of circumcism are severe enough to justify government action.

[aix42]

I'm intact and enjoy myself immensely.

I agree with the concept of not making it illegal, but certainly not the default position.

I have never been refused oral action at the last second due to the snakes turtle neck. Plus it is a handy catch basin if a sock is not available.

[Taktix?]

Then why is there such an uproar about female circumcision? It is no different.

Congratulations. While that may not be the most moronic thing ever posted at H&R, it's definitely worth of top ten consideration.

Really, I took this commect as a sarcastic way of saying "we (rightfully) cry foul when other cultures perform female genital mutilation, but we are a-ok with male genital mutilation."

Of course, I may be projecting...

[Warty]

I favor genital mutilation for Steelers fans, personally.

[Guy Smiley]

Warty,

If that's true, then removal of the prepuce should be called "female circumcision", and removal of the clitoris should be called "female castration".

Failure to do so strikes me as a deliberate attempt to conflate castration and circumcision in order to vilify circumcision.

Sewing up the vagina should be referred to as an "Arabian Cock Block".

[Taktix?]

I favor genital mutilation for Steelers fans, personally.

Egalitarian!

[Taktix?]

Sewing up the vagina should be referred to as an "Arabian Cock Block".

Not to get too graphic, but how exactly does menstration work in those cases?

As Dr. House said: "Religion isn't the opiate of the masses, it's the placebo of the masses."

Fucking nutjob fannatics...

[George H. Henry]

Have you heard of Amari Cream - it blocks STD's

[Warty]

Taktix: supposedly they leave a small hole for drainage. To make it even more fucked up, the poor chick's husband has to rip open the stitches before he can get down to business. No wonder they blow themselves up.

Guy: that's why I prefer the catch-all term "genital mutilation".

[Jessica W]

Yes i have heard about the cream and have used it. Have u? It is an amazing cream all you need to do is apply it before sex and you are protected, it is so easy and fun too. Go to http://www.amaricream.com as they are givinf away FREE samples check it out!

[Hazel Meade]

You guys forgot to mention the most compelling reason to have your kids circumcised.

Circumcised men get more head.

[Jason]

I haven't seen that painting in color before...

IIRC, the hieroglyphs on the left say something like "Hold him fast, make sure he doesn't faint!"

[Warty]

These spambots are boring. Bring back Anonymity Bot!

[Aaron]

Dur- just wear a condom and it won't matter if you're cut or not. I read the study in the link provided. There are all kinds of gaping holes...

[George H. Henry]

That can't be true about Amari Cream - are they really giving away samples?

[Guy Smiley]

Guy: that's why I prefer the catch-all term "genital mutilation".

But that prejudges the question of whether or not circumcision is mutilation.

I really don't think that it is.

I've never shown my circumcised penis to a lady and had her respond "Oh my God, what the hell happened to you!"

But I have heard of women having negative reactions to uncircumcised penises.

This suggested to me that it's mutilation NOT to circumcise. End male genital mutilation! Circumcision for everyone!

[Sarah h]

Yeah I heard about that stuff my sister said she used it as her boyfriend has genital herpes and she still is herpes even during his breakouts!!!

[Bruce Majors]

Actually Atjuanarat if your son were gay having foreskin seems to make it more likely everyone would want to date him. So it cuts, as it were, both ways.

[sarah h]

I meant she is still herpes FREE

[Jessica W]

Yeah they are giving away lots of free samples go to their website http://www.amaricream.com and you can order and it will cost you nothing

[Guy Smiley]

I used Amari Cream, and it gave me crabs.

[Warty]

What the fuck is mutilation if it's not cutting off healthy tissue?

But I have heard of women having negative reactions to uncircumcised penises.

A hearty dick-slapping shuts those up.

[Warty]

Amari cream mutilated my genitalia.

[SugarFree]

I'm with Warty.

[Bruce Majors]

Warty you are correct. Rabbis in the middle ages had a rudimentary concept of the heritability of human genetic disorders and promulgated a rule for families (with genes for hemophilia) where sons kept dying from blood loss during the bris that after you had had two sons die from the bris you did not have to circumcise the third or subsequent sons.

[Ska]

vagina hole

Best redundancy ever.

[Guy Smiley]

I applied Amari Cream to me penis and in the morning it was covered in bite marks.

[Jaimie L]

What are u guys talking about with this cream?

[SugarFree]

I don't think any of you guys understand that "Amari" is a big Greek dude and his "cream" doesn't come in a plastic tube.

[Taktix?]

Amari Cream did my taxes for me!

[herpeprincess]

I have herpes will anyone i have sex with be safe if we use this cream? Does he use it or do I?

[Jessica W]

You both can use it it comes in a pack and u just smear it on u and ur partner before sex like u would a lubricant!

[Warty]

Bruce, I'd heard of that custom, but I was talking about the modern Jews who do the Brit Shalom (I think) instead of the regular bris.

[Warty]

Jessica, I have herpes of the ass. If I eat a lot of Amari Cream, will my shit be herpes-free?

[Jessica W]

Start drizzling, cowboy!

[Jessica w]

I think it was ur mom who gave u the crabs sunshine

[Taktix?]

Added bonus: AmariCream doubles as a great face paint for the kiddies at Halloween...

[Jessica W]

Yeah ur shit will be herpes free but ur face wont

[Warty]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Guy Smiley]

Jessica,

I want to use Amari Cream, but I don't have herpes. Do you sell a cream that will give me herpes?

[Jessica W]

Guy smiley,

I am not selling the cream but just ask ur girlfriend to have sex with u then bada bing u got it

[Mark Lyndon]

You might also want to check out the following:

Canadian Paediatric Society
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/fn/fn96-01.htm
"Recommendation: Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed."

http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/pregnancy&babies/circumcision.htm
"Circumcision is a 'non-therapeutic' procedure, which means it is not medically necessary."
"After reviewing the scientific evidence for and against circumcision, the CPS does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn boys. Many paediatricians no longer perform circumcisions."

Royal Australasian College of Physicians
http://www.racp.edu.au/download.cfm?DownloadFile=A453CFA1-2A57-5487-DF36DF59A1BAF527
"After extensive review of the literature the Royal Australasian College of Physicians reaffirms that there is no medical indication for routine neonatal circumcision."
(those last nine words are in bold on their website, and almost all the men responsible for this statement will be circumcised themselves, as the male circumcision rate in Australia in 1950 was about 90%. "Routine" circumcision is now *banned* in public hospitals in Australia in all states except one.)

British Medical Association
http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/malecircumcision2006?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,circumcision#Circumcisionformedicalpurposes
"to circumcise for therapeutic reasons where medical research has shown other techniques to be at least as effective and less invasive would be unethical and inappropriate."

National Health Service (UK)
http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/articles/article.aspx?articleId=649
"Many people have strong views about whether circumcision should be carried out or not. It is not routinely performed in the UK because there is no clear clinical evidence to suggest it has any medical benefit."

Canadian Children's Rights Council
http://www.canadiancrc.com/Circumcision_Genital_Mutilation_Male-Female_Children.aspx
"It is the position of the Canadian Children's Rights Council that 'circumcision' of male or female children is genital mutilation of children."

drops in male circumcision:
USA: from 90% to 57%
Canada: from 47% to 9.2%
UK: from 35% to about 5% (less than 1% among non-Muslims)
Australia: 90% to 12.6% ("routine" circumcision has recently been *banned* in public hospitals in all states except one, so the rate will now be a lot lower)
New Zealand: 95% to below 3% (mostly Samoans and Tongans)
South America and Europe: never above 5%

It's worth remembering that we wouldn't even be having this discussion if it weren't for the fact that 19th century doctors thought that :
a) masturbation caused various physical and mental problems (including epilepsy, convulsions, paralysis, tuberculosis etc), and
b) circumcision stopped masturbation.

Both of those sound ridiculous today I know, but if you don't believe me, then check out this link:
http://www.noharmm.org/docswords.htm

Over a hundred years later, circumcised men keep looking for new ways to defend the practice.

The record payout for a botched circumcision is $22.8 million. It was said at the time that the victim "will never be able to function sexually as a normal male and will require extensive reconstructive surgery and psychological counseling as well as lifelong urological care and treatment by infectious disease specialists."
Sure, cases like that are very rare, but why should they happen at all? If you look up the galleries of botched jobs, one thing that may surprise you is just how many jobs were botched cosmetically, rather than medically. Skin tags and skin bridges and hair growing half way up the shaft are not normal, but would not be counted as medical complications.

[George H. Henry]

Why are you pencil dicks dogging Jessica

[Sarah H]

Yeah I agree with George shes not doing any harm shes just letting u guys know....jeeez

[Guy Smiley]

George,

I recently applied Amari Cream to my whole body, and I became bullet proof!

Well, I assume that I'm bullet proof.

I figure, if I'm going to take your word about the STDs, then, hey, what the fuck?

[Episiarch]

Why are you pencil dicks dogging Jessica

HAHAHAHAHAHA...perfect. So many levels in that one line.

[Taktix?]

Sarah left her AmariCream uniform at my house last night!

[Guy Smiley]

Sarah,

Did you know that they just came out with sperm-flavored Amari Cream?

[Jessica W]

You guys are pretty funny but on a serious side there are people out there with STDs that need something like this in their lives!! Bullet proof well u wouldnt b bullet proof if i was hlding the gun thats 4 sure!! 🙂

[Warty]

Why would I buy Amari Cream when I can just use some Med-X and Buffout?

[Sarah H]

Yeah i did leave my uniform at ur house tell ur dad i said hello and thanks 4 last night!!

[Guy Smiley]

Sarah and Jessica,

You must be best friends! You short hand is so similar!

There's no other possible explanation...

[Sarah H]

Sperm flavored thats awesome tell ur grlfriend to get it as she probably hasnt tasted u yet u impotent fuck

[Guy Smiley]

Sarah, George, and Jessica,

How badly does this promotion have to go before you abandon it?

[Taktix?]

Yeah i did leave my uniform at ur house tell ur dad i said hello and thanks 4 last night!!

No wonder you got turned on the AmariCream.

Serously though, thanks for ruining what was a pretty interesting discussion. You might be able to lure people to your website on blogs like LGF or FreeRepublic, but most of us are not dumb enough to be tricked by spam here...

Fuck! I've always said I've admired the loose moderation of this site (free speeh and all that), but it still is your property, Reason, and if people kept coming on my lawn and shitting on it, I'd build a fence.

You may now count me in the "Reason needs better moderation" camp...

[Ali-oop]

Consider the New world Bible. It's been altered right in front of our eyes while we were yet alive. What if the socio-NORM-O-paths have altered the Bible many times in the past and always to their liking?
When it comes to the worlds most persistent perversion, what if the truth is that creation & the creator are one way but the socio-NORM-O-paths & the devil are the other?
Would it be a case of liars leading the blind & they both fall into the bottomless ditch?

[galthran]

Amari cream caused my foreskin to grow a hindskin.

[galthran]

Taktix: Is this discussion really so interesting? I must have read the same back-and-forth a couple dozen times on the net anytime circumcision came up. It's widely recognized that the only reasons people do it to thier kids these days are religion and peer pressure.

[Guy Smiley]

the only reasons people do it to thier kids these days are religion and peer pressure.

But have you considered that religion and peer pressure are all that holds civilization together?

[Warty]

Don't forget inertia, galthran. People will do just about anything if they think it's normal.

[Tom]

This is a true story:

I would not of ever been born if my father was circumcised. My father, was shot down over Germany while flying a B-24 mission. After bailing out and landing safely, he was captured & beaten by the local Gestapo and believed to be Jewish because of his last name. Luckily he wasn't circumsised which was proof enough and was released to a Luftwaffe officer.

[Rick H.]

Spammers who infiltrate message boards to have fake conversations with themselves are quite thin-skinned.

They get really touchy whenever it's pointed out that they have tertiary syphilis, listen to U2 and fuck dead toddlers.

[Pappy Smear]

" Luckily he wasn't circumsised which was proof enough and was released to a Luftwaffe officer."

Your mother was a Lutwaffe officer? Did she wear Luftwaffe boots.

[Jessica W]

"They get really touchy whenever it's pointed out that they have tertiary syphilis, listen to U2 and fuck dead toddlers."

Listen to U2? No way.

[Taktix?]

Is this discussion really so interesting?

Mildly interesting, and a welcome break from hourly horrible news coming from DC...

[T]

Your mother was a Lutwaffe officer? Did she wear Luftwaffe boots.

You got gypped, man. You'd want your mom to be Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS, if you had to choose.

[Schultzy]

"You got gypped, man. You'd want your mom to be Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"

Whoa!

http://www.ligotti.net/picture.php?albumid=25&pictureid=513

[random guy]

No, you want your friend's mom to be Ilsa.

[Head]

Jessica W,

May your genital warts grow over your vagina like Cauliflower panties.

[Jessica W]

I don't have genital warts or any other STDs, despite banging a different guy every night. That is how I know Amari Cream works.

[Head]

Too bad - the knobby crusty parts provide lots of friction.

[Slade]

"I don't have genital warts or any other STDs, despite banging a different guy every night. That is how I know Amari Cream works."

Not wit me you don't bitch. I ain't puttin' no jimmy cream on my johnson.

[Adam W.]

Taktix...
Funny, but I'm circumcised (Jewish you know) and it hasn't stopped ME from jerkin' it.

[Tony]

Being an American in England was awesome for my sex life, but I had to deal with being referred to as "deformed" once I got my pants off.

[Bobbitt]

Six drops of Amari Cream will burn that pesky foreskin right off.

[Shelby]

They can have my penis when they pry it from my cold dead hand!

Um, wait...

[Sam Grove]

The study was done in Uganda.

How does that relate to the U.S. experience?

[fwiw]

jtuf | March 31, 2009, 1:28pm | #
From the abstract of the sensitivity article:

Circumcised and uncircumcised men were compared using mixed models for repeated data, controlling for age, type of underwear worn, time since last ejaculation, ethnicity, country of birth, and level of education.

That last factor just struck me. Why would level of education and penis sensitivity be correlated?

It may factor in the expected accuracy of the subjects' reports.

[Ali-oop]

There is no evidence tha circumcision is any good. There is only a continuous bombardment of lies saying so.

There is a special interest group that wants to pervert the societies they live in so that they will seem normal.

If their lies were seen through & their perversion was done away with then they would become exposed as an abnormal minority!

[Bruce Majors]

I'd love to see a reference or link for what you are discussing Warty, just because I am interested.

I know that if you convert to Judaism, and are already circumcised, you have a ritual circumcision that involves a pricking to draw a drop of blood.

Having been circumcised at age 6 because the new doctor replacing our vacationing family doctor urged my 1960s doctor-worshipping mother to have it done, I tend to keep up on this topic.

[SxCx]

The new pediatrics: carving things off to save trouble.

[Ron Low]

The foreskin is the BEST part of the penis; 20,000 sensual pleasure-receptive nerve endings (vs 8,000 in the glans and 4,000 in the clitoris).

The skin protects the glans and the mucosal region. The slack skin provides and awesome frictionless rolling/gliding action during intimacy.

95% of the non-Muslim world does not circumcise. And hundreds of thousands of US men have died of AIDS; three-fourths of them were circumcised at birth. In seven African countries it's the circumcised who have markedly higher HIV rates. Circ only affects HIV odds in the non-placebo-controlled non-double-blinded "controlled" trials run by long-time circ justifiers.

Foreskin feels REALLY good. HIS body HIS decision.

[cam balkon]

thanksss

[cam balkon]

thanls

[k?? bah?esi]

yeahhh

[Karen Nurse]

I am looking for someone to do an expose' on a custom. I am a nurse in newborn nursery. The pain that sweet tiny baby boys go through during a circumcision horrifies me. It is surgery without anesthesia. It is 10 minutes of pure hell. The pain is so horrendous that many babies go into shock immediately. They just stare and make gurgly noises. They are the lucky ones. The others remain perfectly aware of the pain that goes on and on. Their piercing screams haunt me.

In history, the earliest surgery was done without anesthesia. Just tie them down and do it quick. Some people were willing to have surgery once. But I've read that people refused to endure surgery a second time - even if it meant death. They knew how severe the pain was, and decided they would rather die than endure that pain a second time.

How can intelligent, educated people not realize that a scalpel causes a horrendous, sharp, excruciating pain that no human being should ever have to endure. Tell me how a custom can be so strong that it overpowers intelligence and common sense.

For example, the Chinese custom of "binding" young girls' feet. The toes were forced down under the foot [ breaking bones, I believe ] and tightly bound forever. So the feet couldn't grow. Forever small. Big feet were considered UGLY. No one would marry a girl with big feet. Can you imagine the pain? Americans are not under the influence of Chinese customs and from a distance, we are apalled! But in China, even after a law was passed against foot-binding, some parents would still do it - knowing that they were going to prison. That is how strong a custom can be. It can cloud judgement.

The pain of circumcision wouldn't be quite as bad if the foreskin was fully developed at birth. But it is still adhered to the glans [ head of the penis ] and does not separate naturally for several years. Mother Nature may be slow, but it produces an exquisitely sensitive sexual organ.

The first step of a circumcision is to rip the adhered foreskin off the glans using a metal probe. But the two skins are still fused as one. And patches of skin are ripped off the glans in the process. I see the glans of these tiny penises with skin missing and the tissue exposed every day. The pain is supposed to be comparable to having a metal probe forced under your fingernail and ripping it back and forth until the fingernail comes off. Imagine the pain! It is now recommended that a pain block be used. But it is not a law. So only a few babies get it.

So why do we do it? Because it is what we are used to. A custom. Explain that to a baby that is enduring a pain that no human being should ever have to endure!

There are many other reasons not to circumcise. It is removing the best skin of the penis. The foreskin contains approx. 20,000 specialized nerves that enhance sexual pleasure. The skin remaining is crude and has only a fraction of the sensation. The foreskin is NOT extra skin. It is there so that the penis can get longer during an erection. It is designed to unfold and stretch out, allowing the penis to grow. In the process, the foreskin is pulled off the glans. The glans is then uncovered and now the intact penis looks the same as a circumcised penis. They end up looking the same during an erection. But the intact penis is larger and has more sensation.

Over the years, doctors have invented excuses for circumcision and the public latches onto them. These excuses are false and misleading. There is no reason good enough to inflict such sharp, excruciating pain on someone you love. To forever decrease his sexual pleasure. To amputate the best, most sensitive part of his penis. To violate his human rights.

As I watch parents hug and kiss their new babies. Then insist that their babies endure a pain that is comparable to a fingernail being ripped off with a metal probe. And then a scalpel cuts - with no anesthesia. I want to scream, "Do you love your baby, or hate him?"

There are many organizations that would help you with an expose'. They are easy to find on the internet. Please help! Babies are weak. This custom is strong.

[Hitler]

I'd like some of the morons who joke about male circumcision to explain how they aren't raging hypocrites? Why is male genital mutilation acceptable, yet any form of female genital mutilation is horrendous?

[Karen Nurse]

I am looking for someone to do an expose' on a custom. I am a nurse in newborn nursery. The pain that sweet tiny baby boys go through during a circumcision horrifies me. It is surgery without anesthesia. It is 10 minutes of pure hell. The pain is so horrendous that many babies go into shock immediately. They just stare and make gurgly noises. They are the lucky ones. The others remain perfectly aware of the pain that goes on and on. Their piercing screams haunt me.

In history, the earliest surgery was done without anesthesia. Just tie them down and do it quick. Some people were willing to have surgery once. But I've read that people refused to endure surgery a second time - even if it meant death. They knew how severe the pain was, and decided they would rather die than endure that pain a second time.

How can intelligent, educated people not realize that a scalpel causes a horrendous, sharp, excruciating pain that no human being should ever have to endure. Tell me how a custom can be so strong that it overpowers intelligence and common sense.

For example, the Chinese custom of "binding" young girls' feet. The toes were forced down under the foot [ breaking bones, I believe ] and tightly bound forever. So the feet couldn't grow. Forever small. Big feet were considered UGLY. No one would marry a girl with big feet. Can you imagine the pain? Americans are not under the influence of Chinese customs and from a distance, we are apalled! But in China, even after a law was passed against foot-binding, some parents would still do it - knowing that they were going to prison. That is how strong a custom can be. It can cloud judgement.

The pain of circumcision wouldn't be quite as bad if the foreskin was fully developed at birth. But it is still adhered to the glans [ head of the penis ] and does not separate naturally for several years. Mother Nature may be slow, but it produces an exquisitely sensitive sexual organ.

The first step of a circumcision is to rip the adhered foreskin off the glans using a metal probe. But the two skins are still fused as one. And patches of skin are ripped off the glans in the process. I see the glans of these tiny penises with skin missing and the tissue exposed every day. The pain is supposed to be comparable to having a metal probe forced under your fingernail and ripping it back and forth until the fingernail comes off. Imagine the pain! It is now recommended that a pain block be used. But it is not a law. So only a few babies get it.

So why do we do it? Because it is what we are used to. A custom. Explain that to a baby that is enduring a pain that no human being should ever have to endure!

There are many other reasons not to circumcise. It is removing the best skin of the penis. The foreskin contains approx. 20,000 specialized nerves that enhance sexual pleasure. The skin remaining is crude and has only a fraction of the sensation. The foreskin is NOT extra skin. It is there so that the penis can get longer during an erection. It is designed to unfold and stretch out, allowing the penis to grow. In the process, the foreskin is pulled off the glans. The glans is then uncovered and now the intact penis looks the same as a circumcised penis. They end up looking the same during an erection. But the intact penis is larger and has more sensation.

Over the years, doctors have invented excuses for circumcision and the public latches onto them. These excuses are false and misleading. There is no reason good enough to inflict such sharp, excruciating pain on someone you love. To forever decrease his sexual pleasure. To amputate the best, most sensitive part of his penis. To violate his human rights.

As I watch parents hug and kiss their new babies. Then insist that their babies endure a pain that is comparable to a fingernail being ripped off with a metal probe. And then a scalpel cuts - with no anesthesia. I want to scream, "Do you love your baby, or hate him?"

There are many organizations that would help you with an expose'. They are easy to find on the internet. Please help! Babies are weak. This custom is strong.

[Karen Nurse]

I am looking for someone to do an expose' on a custom. I am a nurse in newborn nursery. The pain that sweet tiny baby boys go through during a circumcision horrifies me. It is surgery without anesthesia. It is 10 minutes of pure hell. The pain is so horrendous that many babies go into shock immediately. They just stare and make gurgly noises. They are the lucky ones. The others remain perfectly aware of the pain that goes on and on. Their piercing screams haunt me.

In history, the earliest surgery was done without anesthesia. Just tie them down and do it quick. Some people were willing to have surgery once. But I've read that people refused to endure surgery a second time - even if it meant death. They knew how severe the pain was, and decided they would rather die than endure that pain a second time.

How can intelligent, educated people not realize that a scalpel causes a horrendous, sharp, excruciating pain that no human being should ever have to endure. Tell me how a custom can be so strong that it overpowers intelligence and common sense.

For example, the Chinese custom of "binding" young girls' feet. The toes were forced down under the foot [ breaking bones, I believe ] and tightly bound forever. So the feet couldn't grow. Forever small. Big feet were considered UGLY. No one would marry a girl with big feet. Can you imagine the pain? Americans are not under the influence of Chinese customs and from a distance, we are apalled! But in China, even after a law was passed against foot-binding, some parents would still do it - knowing that they were going to prison. That is how strong a custom can be. It can cloud judgement.

The pain of circumcision wouldn't be quite as bad if the foreskin was fully developed at birth. But it is still adhered to the glans [ head of the penis ] and does not separate naturally for several years. Mother Nature may be slow, but it produces an exquisitely sensitive sexual organ.

The first step of a circumcision is to rip the adhered foreskin off the glans using a metal probe. But the two skins are still fused as one. And patches of skin are ripped off the glans in the process. I see the glans of these tiny penises with skin missing and the tissue exposed every day. The pain is supposed to be comparable to having a metal probe forced under your fingernail and ripping it back and forth until the fingernail comes off. Imagine the pain! It is now recommended that a pain block be used. But it is not a law. So only a few babies get it.

So why do we do it? Because it is what we are used to. A custom. Explain that to a baby that is enduring a pain that no human being should ever have to endure!

There are many other reasons not to circumcise. It is removing the best skin of the penis. The foreskin contains approx. 20,000 specialized nerves that enhance sexual pleasure. The skin remaining is crude and has only a fraction of the sensation. The foreskin is NOT extra skin. It is there so that the penis can get longer during an erection. It is designed to unfold and stretch out, allowing the penis to grow. In the process, the foreskin is pulled off the glans. The glans is then uncovered and now the intact penis looks the same as a circumcised penis. They end up looking the same during an erection. But the intact penis is larger and has more sensation.

Over the years, doctors have invented excuses for circumcision and the public latches onto them. These excuses are false and misleading. There is no reason good enough to inflict such sharp, excruciating pain on someone you love. To forever decrease his sexual pleasure. To amputate the best, most sensitive part of his penis. To violate his human rights.

As I watch parents hug and kiss their new babies. Then insist that their babies endure a pain that is comparable to a fingernail being ripped off with a metal probe. And then a scalpel cuts - with no anesthesia. I want to scream, "Do you love your baby, or hate him?"

There are many organizations that would help you with an expose'. They are easy to find on the internet. Please help! Babies are weak. This custom is strong.