Revolutionary Violence in a Wall Street Gym

Lehman Brothers chief Richard Fuld

was attacked on a Sunday shortly after it was announced that the banking giant was bankrupt.

Following rumours that the incident had occurred, Vicki Ward, a US journalist, said "two very senior sources - one incredibly senior source" had confirmed it to her. "He went to the gym after … Lehman was announced as going under," she told CNBC. "He was on a treadmill with a heart monitor on. Someone was in the corner, pumping iron and he walked over and he knocked him out cold."

Comments

[brotherben]

I reckon he should have gone to that California spa with the fuckwads from AIG.

[Jaybird]

I would like to add my voice to the chorus that says that we completely disapprove of this, no matter how much we may understand it.

[Episiarch]

I would like to add my voice to the chorus that says that we completely disapprove of this, no matter how much we may understand it.

Can I technically disapprove while loving it?

[Caveman]

I applaud this action. If every CEO, CFO, COO, etc knew that suffering physical violence was the penalty for fucking up, there would be far fewer fuck ups.

[Elemenope]

With Epi on this one.

"He shouldn't have done that...but you gotta know you had it coming."

[henry]

You can't make an omelet....

[JMR]

Does anyone else think this is probably the worst consequence any of these overpaid CEOs will ever face? (Good thing they spent so much tax money on bullshit political cases fighting against ANY attempt at honesty in money!) And no, I don't think their salaries are set in a free marketplace, or I'd have no problems with what they're paid, but I'm old-fashioned. An excellent salary demands (gasp) excellence.

[John C. Randolph]

So, who's the guy who cold-cocked him, and is he available to be the next treasury secretary?

-jcr

[Warren]

pffft No matter how much of a fuck up Richard Fuld is, he didn't fuck me. My government fucked me.

Where does Henry Paulson work out?

[robc]

What Im wondering, in the area of violence, would it be wrong to tar and feather my Rep who flip flopped on the bailout bill?

When did doing that to government officials become unacceptable?

[Shirley Knott]

Paulson? Work Out? Have you *seen* him?
I think the last time he worked out was well before the ceremonies that turned him into a lich. Or a Skeletor equivalent...
[Not as bad as Chertoff, who *is* Skeletor, but...]

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott

[Steve]

If he has only been hit once since all of this went down I think he is still coming out ahead...

[economist]

Given his complicity in the theft, I wouldn't be bothered if they had killed him and sold his organs on the black market.

[economist]

Tarring and Feathering seems like a perfectly acceptable punishment for any pol who voted for the monstrosity.

[SugarFree]

You can punch me in the face as hard as you like for $480 million. Twice even.

[Red Green]

Fuld did not"fuckup". Fuld did what the rest have done, and are doing.It's planned and provided for. Where's mine?

[Jack]

Sounds like a case for http://www.sadtrombone.com

[robc]

SugarFree,

[looking in wallet, nope a little short]

Dammit!

[domoarrigato]

Fuld is no innocent ghandi here, he was involved in a slapfest a while back at some kiddie soccer game. He is a violent personality himself - live by jungle law...

[Episiarch]

You can punch me in the face as hard as you like for $480 million. Twice even.

You didn't specify which kind of dollar. Let's all start a Monopoly money collection so that somebody gets to deck NutraSweet. Twice.

[SugarFree]

Dollars? I want Euros or gold. Something stable.

[Episiarch]

I'll write you a check. Don't cash it until 2534, though.

[SugarFree]

By the way, $480 million in Monopoly money would take 15,852 sets to gather up. 15,852 sets would cost $221,769.

You can punch me in the face for $221,769 US.

[Pro Libertate]

Executive compensation is so out of whack. What are we paying for? Each time an industry is exposed--? la financial services--we learn that the executives were usually buffoons. I don't at all want the government involved in this process, but it would be nice if boards and shareholders would start drawing a line somewhere. . .anywhere. While they are paying the market rate, they aren't paying for value. I think there are plenty of idiots who can run your company into the ground for a mere $1 million/year, so why not simply refuse to pay these nutty compensation packages?

[Episiarch]

You can punch me in the face for $221,769 US.

Don't tempt me.

(starts reviewing bank accounts and investments)

[Hmm]

Episiarch -

May I recommend Zimbabwean currency?

[economist]

PL,
Good point. I figure that executive compensation is one of the things that can be most easily cut (in terms of how it would affect the company's performance, not in terms of resistance to it) when you need to cut costs. If you're John D. Rockefeller or Andrew Carnegie, maybe you can justify your multimillion salary. That said, it's shareholder business, not government business, so the government should stay the hell out.

[Ashley]

Mama said, knock you out.

[rana]

AJAJAJAJAJA!! Best news have heard all week!
(I enjoyed reading this and I'm not ashamed to admit it).

[SugarFree]

Hmm,

Fuld's compensation package was worth 2x10^15th Zimbabwean dollars.

(I'm just a lowly English major. Is that the right notation for a 2 with 16 zeroes after it?)

[Pro Libertate]

economist,

Agreed. To clarify, I was talking more about salaried executive help, not so much founders of businesses. Bill Gates should be able to cash in on his success. But someone like, say, Barry Diller or Kerry Killinger, well, I don't get it.

What's interesting about shareholders is that the law seems to disfavor concerted actions by them to deal with things like mismanagement and loony compensation packages. I'm not sure why that is, to be honest.

[kinnath]

but it would be nice if boards and shareholders would start drawing a line somewhere. . .

Bingo, we have a winner.

The owners of these businesses are solely responsble for their failure.

Some level of regulation is useful to ensure that the shareholder have enough visibility to detect malfeasance on the part of the management. But it is not the responsibility of government to prevent management from running a business into the ground.

[robc]

SugarFree,

Off by 1.

2E16.

10^1 has 1 zero, 10^2 is 100, or 2 zeros, etc.

[SugarFree]

robc,

Thanks.

^16th sounded right. Should have gone with my instinct.

[economist]

Shit, I completely forgot about Bill Gates.
Middle Age senility?
Must look up in the dictionary.

[robc]

The biggest change I would like companies to make is to run multiple candidates for board positions. If 8 are being elected, give me 16 choices, even if all 16 are hand picked by the board.

Or, have some sort of nominating process where shareholders can nominate candidates for the board, with a low threshold of nominating shares to be on the ballot, so that minority shareholders can easily suggest candidates.

[Episiarch]

And NutraSweet, pop quiz: what is 10^0?

[Isaac]

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

[robc]

SugarFree,

Should have gone with my instinct.

Bah. You should have just derived it from first principles.

Ive always been bad at memorization. I dont know how many formuli I derived from scratch during a test as an undergrad because I couldnt remember the formula.

[economist]

robc,
I used to the same thing, but I was always rather slow. I remember barely passing Calc II (originally a 64, with a curve a 73) thanks to that.

[SugarFree]

And NutraSweet, pop quiz: what is 10^0?

I don't know... your taint?

[Hogan]

epi - 1

[SugarFree]

You guys remind me of all those mean AP Calc kids who used to beat me up in high school.

Not OK!

[Episiarch]

I don't know... your taint?

x^0 is always 1. And yes, thanks, my taint is #1.

[SugarFree]

See... Instinct.

[Episiarch]

I dont know how many formuli I derived from scratch during a test as an undergrad because I couldnt remember the formula

I did this too, especially on the math team, because you never knew what the hell they were going to throw at you.

[robc]

Epi,

What about 0^0. Isnt that 0? or undefined? Damn, stupid conflicting math rules.

[economist]

Maybe I shouldn't have gotten high before class all those times.

[economist]

0^0 is an indeterminate form. There's some calculus method to determine the limit for functions that approach that, but I can't remember it. I think I still have my old calc book though...

[economist]

Sugarfree,
Not me. My high school didn't offer AP calc. I took high school calc as a senior and took calculus I again as a college freshman.

[robc]

economist,

L'hopital's rule, I think. I know that applies in the 0/0 situation.

You need functions though, not just a general statement.

Im having 20 year old calculus flashbacks now. Ugh.

[Episiarch]

What about 0^0. Isnt that 0? or undefined? Damn, stupid conflicting math rules.

Ask NutraSweet. He has "instinct".

[Hogan]

0^0 is undefined. (it's like it can be infinity or nothing or anything so they just call it undefined). it doesn't conflict with everything else to the zeroth being 1.

[I\'m not saying he should have]

You know the worst thing about CEO's? CEO's always want credit for some shit they supposed to do. A CEO will brag about some shit a normal businessman just does. A CEO will say some shit like, "I take care of my company." You're supposed to, you dumb motherfucker! What kind of ignorant shit is that? "I ain't never been bankrupt!" What do you want, a cookie?! You're not supposed to be bankrupt, you low-expectation-having motherfucker!

[SugarFree]

Ask NutraSweet. He has "instinct".

Let see. Who here got laid in high school with a math formula and who got laid with a faggy poem I wrote in ten minutes?

Faggy poem = FTW!

[squarooticus]

0^0 is undefined.

I think it's better labelled "indeterminate", because the limit exists along any path in the domain. E.g., lim x->0 x^0 = 1 but lim y->0 0^y = 0.

[economist]

robc,
No, I think L'Hopital's rule only applies for 0/0 and possibly infinity over infinity. I don't know. Shows how much we mechanical engineers actually used L'Hopital's rule (though many other things in calculus have been critical)

[Dread]

Can I technically disapprove while loving it?

Yes.

While I'm not in favor of physical violence, I think it is high time we bring back public shame.

These twats (corporate and government) should be jeered, mocked, and have rotten vegetables thrown at their cars.

[economist]

SugarFree,
Neither. I got laid by...uh...shit. I was kind of wasted, so I don't remember.

[economist]

Dread,
I've always preferred the pillory.

[gabe]

I had a friend on the football team who actively lobbied the school administration to hold a pep-rally for my math team.

[Kreel Sarloo]

When did doing that to government officials become unacceptable?

The day that tar and feathers and horsewhipping went out of style was a sad day indeed.

I could live with letting women wear shoes if we could bring them back.

[dhex]

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

what about people who are highly competent at violence?

[Episiarch]

Let see. Who here got laid in high school with a math formula and who got laid with a faggy poem I wrote in ten minutes?

I got laid by being me--cool and fun and good-looking.

You needed a poem.

[wayne]

Dollars? I want Euros or gold. Something stable.

Uh, "Euros" and "stable" are oxymoronic. Gold though, now that is stable.

[Mike Laursen]

Great. One of the guys who didn't take public bailout money gets punched.

[SugarFree]

I did what I could with what I have.

Also, math team? Really?

And not for the sheer nerdiness of the math team, but it is rather my deep disappointment that you participated in after school events. You were a joiner. [shudder]

[KyleG]

It is getting to the point that these kinds of acts are becoming more acceptable. Not a good thing for those people.

[R C Dean]

Gold though, now that is stable.

Until it isn't. Over long time frames, gold is actually pretty volatile.

[P Brooks]

One of the guys who didn't take public bailout money gets punched.

It's not because he didn't *want* public money.

In a robust performance in front of the committee, Mr Fuld said that he would wonder "until they put me in the ground" why the US government had not rescued the 158-year-old firm.

[R C Dean]

Someone was in the corner, pumping iron and he walked over and he knocked him out cold.

How, exactly, do we know it was a guy who punched him out?

He was on a treadmill with a heart monitor on.

Why would the CEO of Lehman's have a heart monitor, anyway?

[dhex]

"Why would the CEO of Lehman's have a heart monitor, anyway?"

he finds the flat line calming.

[rimshot]

[Episiarch]

And not for the sheer nerdiness of the math team, but it is rather my deep disappointment that you participated in after school events. You were a joiner

If you want to get accepted at Johns Hopkins, you have to have your extracurriculars. Besides, I enjoyed the math team. We never "practiced", were #1 in CT for small schools, and usually took #1 in the New England's for small schools.

And you have to do sports, man. Gotta stay in shape.

[P Brooks]

I'd like to see a printout from the heart monitor: tick, tick, tick, tick, zing! tick....

[Dread]

I've always preferred the pillory.

I'd be fine with that.

Put them all in Times Square or the Capitol mall.

[gao xia en]

He should have caved his head in with a dumbell. By the way, is it difficult to get into the congressional gym?

[DADIODADDY]

violence...bailouts...math...higher math...currency speculation...violence

it's true, violence begats violence. I just never knew how.

[DADIODADDY]

oh yeah, forgot the sex thing it's always in the mix somehow...

[bruce]

"economist" tells us that executive compensation is shareholder business, not government business. sorry buddy, that's the old paradigm. if we're gonna put government money into a business, then we acquire the right to determine executive compensation.

[SugarFree]

if we're gonna put government money into a business, then we acquire the right to determine executive compensation.

Nice way to sum up the libertarian fear of universal health care.

[P Brooks]

If we're going to nationalize the financial services industry, we should impose the government "GS" graded pay scale. See what ol' Hammer thinks of that.

I'd be fine with the pillory; especially if we can throw vegetables (preferably canned) at the occupants.

[Isaac Bartram]

PL and economist

IIANM one of the SEC rules of the 30s vested a lot more power in the management of public companies. I'm not sure why, but it's effect is to make takeovers much harder and more costly.

It came up a lot in Reason articles in the 80s during takeover mania. The view then seemed to be that most of the "harm" from takeovers would happen to the current officers not the shareholders or some nebulous "public interest".

Not being very bright, I have forgotten the exact details. But I think it may have been what allowed the AIG and WaMu management and board to keep potential buyers with offers not consistent with the officers interests away from the shareholders.

Anyone here have a clue?

[Isaac Bartram]

OH, part of my point is that the same rule is what has allowed companies to raise executive compensation to levels that are somewhat hard to square with shareholders' interests.

[Pro Libertate]

Isaac,

Shareholder derivative actions rarely succeed, which makes me think that you may be right. A lot of this is dependent on Delaware law, too.

[HyperIon]

"You can punch me in the face as hard as you like for $480 million."

I believe that Fuld asserts that due to vagaries of the market it's "only" 350 million now. So let's keep this in perspective. (The guy has got balls but, lest we forget, he also has A LOT of money.)

[SugarFree]

Hyperlon,

Considering I'd go all the way down to 221K, 350M works for me too.

[joe]

This is so unfair.

Barney Frank MADE that guy leverage the hell out of Lehman to buy MBSs. And then he touched him where his bathing suit goes.

[Danny]

robc | October 8, 2008, 11:21am | #

SugarFree,

Should have gone with my instinct.

Bah. You should have just derived it from first principles.

Ive always been bad at memorization. I dont know how many formuli I derived from scratch during a test as an undergrad because I couldnt remember the formula.

I was the same way. All you have to do is pay attention to units, use what you know, and connect the dots to get what you need. I'm glad I had a couple of good teachers that stressed the importance of units.

I think it's better labelled "indeterminate", because the limit exists along any path in the domain. E.g., lim x->0 x^0 = 1 but lim y->0 0^y = 0.

I was always taught that x^y (where y=0) was one because you are essentially saying "x times itself y=0 times", and a way to write this is:

1*(x*x*x....*x)

And if x and y are both zero, then you don't multiply by zeros at all, so you just have:

1

Though that's more of an intuitive approach, and taking the limit is probably more technically accurate.

[Tulpa]

"two very senior sources - one incredibly senior source" had confirmed it to her.

What's an "incredibly senior source"? Someone who's 300 years old or something?

[joe]

One of the actual Lehman brothers, during a seance?

[Cushy Oiler]

The 0^0 case is consistent with other exponentiation rules.

x^0 = x^(1-1) = x/x

For x = 0, this is 0/0 which is indeterminate because the definition of division is that z=x/y if and only if z*y=x, and this is true for any z if x=0 and y=0.

For other x, x/x is always 1.

[Danny]

Oh, and 0.9999999.... = 1

😀

[smacky]

What's an "incredibly senior source"? Someone who's 300 years old or something?

Yeah, that seemed a bit illiterate. I have to agree -- I was kind of wondering how old the incredibly old senior is, too, and moreover what that really, I mean, like, totally, rilly, rilly old person is doing at the gym.

[Mike Laursen]

In a robust performance in front of the committee, Mr Fuld said that he would wonder "until they put me in the ground" why the US government had not rescued the 158-year-old firm.

It may have had something to do with Lehman executives endorsing Obama, and Lehman employees contributing much more to Obama's campaign than McCain's.