Reason Writers Around Town: Katherine Mangu-Ward on Hillary Voters

In the third installment of her weeklong debate in the Los Angeles Times with blogger Amanda Marcotte, Katherine Mangu-Ward ponders the appropriateness of white shoes after Labor Day and whether any Hillary voters will cast a ballot for Palin.

Read today's exchange here.

Read the second installment here.

Read the first installment here.

Comments

[Clamboy]

Reason:

But enough about Palin. Let's talk about Hillary votes.

So, Hillary voter, what do YOU think about Palin?

Reason

All Palin! All the time.

[Kant feel Pietzsche, my Balzac]

DATELINE special tonight:

Does the Sarracudah wear white shoes after labor day?

[Clamboy]

BTW, Kim Jong Il likely had a stroke. Hasn't been seen since Aug 14.

Russia threatens to target US missile shield sites.

Interfax: Venezuela.

Lehman falls 45% on capital concerns.

7.5 Mag Earthquake in Iran.

But I digress.

[R C Dean]

Clamboy reminds me - did we see anything on Reason about the handover of Anbar province to the Iraqis?

When was the last time Reason said anything about Iraq, anyway?

[joe]

"Voters aren't that stupid
Counterpoint: Amanda Marcotte"

I gotta give this one to Katherine.

[BDB]

RC Dean-

Everything is now about Palin and lipstick and pigs and who is being more sexist or something. Didn't you get that memo? That's the most pressing issue facing our nation right now.

[Seward]

R.C. Dean,

Does this Anbar transfer mean that the Sunni fighters the U.S. is currently paying no longer get those payments?

[ed]

Oh, that photo's rich. Or should that be reich? Heil anyway!

[Clamboy]

"Interfax: Venezuela."

That should have read: Two Russian bombers land in Venezuela, but I was in a hurry to leave the office.

That Russia and Venezuela are conducting joint military exercises is major news. Perhaps someone from Reason can head down there and ask the bomber pilots why they're there and what do they think about Palin.

[BDB]

Putin has to be laughing his ass off right now over what our news media is discussing.

[Paul]

BTW, Kim Jong Il likely had a stroke. Hasn't been seen since Aug 14.

But what's his position on Palin?

Anyhoo, out of curiosity, I read Marcotte's profile on Wikipedia. Almost feel sorry for her. It reminds me of the idiom that suggests that women could rule the world... if they could get along with eachother for five minutes.

[BDB]

Does Chavez like Mooseburgers?

[Paul]

joe:

Voters are only stupid when they don't agree with you. Everyone agrees on that.

[Media Geek]

I think I know what Reason is doing here. They have come to realize that the hyper-coverage of Obama over the last year produced reader fatigue (Obama is so last year know). They're hoping to do the same with Palin. But. Unfortunately. There. Is. So. Little. Time.

[J sub D]

Putin has to be laughing his ass off right now over what our news media is discussing.

Nah. He's evilly chortling over what Russia's news media isn't.

[J sub D]

Most voters, like all other forms of humanity, are too fuckin' dumb for words. I'm constantly flabbergasted by the stupidity and ignorance displayed by my fellow Homo sapiens.

Dems and Republicans, Libertarians and Commies, men and women, the old and the young, the rich and the poor ...

[shrike]

Its back to identity politics! God, guns and gays for the ignorant rural rednecks who fear "scary European ideas and liberals" and the ACLU.

Jesus fucking Christ. Americans are too stupid to survive.

[Gorgeous Gus the Wonder Dog]

"In the third installment of her weeklong debate in the Los Angeles Times with blogger Amanda Marcotte, Katherine Mangu-Ward ponders the appropriateness of white shoes after Labor Day and whether any Hillary voters will cast a ballot for Palin."

I can't wait for installments four and five.

[Caribou Carl]

I sit with baited breath, waiting for installments four and five of the Palin Chronicles.

God help us.

[Paul]

Palin

Palin II, the Return of Palin

Palin Goes to Washington

[Dagny T.]

Marcotte basically countered KMW's assertion that voters flip-flop and aren't always rational with the fact that "it's the media's fault." Ick.

Media responsibility? Last I checked, there are zillions (yup, zillions) of places to get your news. Some are more reliable than others, but that's up to the consumer to figure out. Caveat emptor and all that jazz. If one media outlet gets too "shallow [and] stupid," change the channel &/or website.

And, surprise!, there's no massive media conspiracy to force us to focus on Hil's pantsuits or Obama's weight. That's what we want to read.

The evil, male-driven media makes us focus on gender? The deus ex machina is always a tempting solution, but usually doesn't pan out in reality.

[prolefeed]

Just got done voting at the walk-in voting booth at the mall, for a bunch of people none of whom has any chance whatsoever of getting elected. And none of whom has any chance of getting endorsed by the local papers. Actually, since I consider any endorsement by the Honolulu Advertiser as proof that the person endorsed is a ruinously bad choice, that second sentence is probably redundant.

[joe]

Palin IV: the RePalining

[BDB]

Palin V: Panic

[Kant feel Pietzsche, my Balzac]

Palin VI: GILF and lovin' it!

[Kant feel Pietzsche, my Balzac]

*Off-topic* but I couldn't help it.

Bush supposedly looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul. Considering the general demeanor of our CIC, and the fact that Vlad's last name sounds like a juvenile BR joke...is anyone else surprised that Bush didn't break out into huge beavis like guffaws when he was face-to-face?

[ed]

I sit with baited breath

It's "bated." Go back two spaces and forfeit a roll.

[John C. Randolph]

Why bother to write about Hillary? The democrats narrowly escaped a crushing defeat by picking Obama, and we don't have to worry about that bitch again for at least four years.

I would hope, of course, that her lying, sniveling, arm-twisting and race-baiting this time around would have sunk her nomination prospects for good, but that's probably giving the members of the pinko wing of the Ruling Party too much credit.

-jcr

[B]

"Does this Anbar transfer mean that the Sunni fighters the U.S. is currently paying no longer get those payments"

You gotta love it. Every time someone points out the obvious progress in Iraq, there is always some moron with his hands over his ears, or eyes in this case, shouting "la la la la la".

[B]

"I would hope, of course, that her lying, sniveling, arm-twisting and race-baiting this time around would have sunk her nomination prospects for good, but that's probably giving the members of the pinko wing of the Ruling Party too much credit."

I challenge you to provide one legitimate example of race-baiting by Hillary Clinton.

[Bill Clinton]

Jesse Jackson won South Carolina twice--in '84, and '88. He ran a good campaign, and Senator Obama has run a good campaign.

[B]

Of course a sizable portion of Hillary die-hards are going to vote for McCain. A McCain victory is the only way that Hillary will ever be able to run for president again, unless the Democrats suddenly decide eight years from now that age is not an issue. Of course their hypocrisy knows no bounds, so you never know.

[B]

"Jesse Jackson won South Carolina twice--in '84, and '88. He ran a good campaign, and Senator Obama has run a good campaign."

I said a legitimate example, not an example that is racism only in the feverish minds of thin-skinned Obama supporters. Or maybe you missed the story concerning the memo from the Obama campaign. You know, the one where they state they are going to equate every perceived slight with racism. Hell, it even discussed making up shit.

[Mark Penn]

Did you get my memo?

[joe]

Palin V: Panic

Palin VII: Sexism!

[John-David]

*Yawn*

You know what's the only thing more tired than people talking about how dumb Americans/humans/Everyone else is? The people who don't realize that those people *dumber* than they are actually decide the fate of the world. Far better to educate/enlighten them than constantly bemoan how stupid they are.

[Kant feel Pietzsche, my Balzac]

I sit with baited breath

Maybe he just a tuna sandwich, and he has a secret lesbian fetish

[MJ]

Though I disagree with her mostly, I think Marcotte has the better side in this. Hilary voters are unlikely to vote for McCain/Palin just because Palin is a woman. I think they are on the whole primarily motivated by ideology and secondarily by identity politics. Palin does not share their politics so her identity as woman will not trump their liberalism. There might be some Hilary women who are upset about how the primaries turned out to vote GOP as a "take that" to the Obamans, but I doubt they would be more than a very narrow fringe. On the other hand, women who lean toward voting GOP anyway but were tepid at best about the McCain ticket will likely have more enthusiasm to vote in numbers with Palin on the ticket, both for her ideology and for being a woman. That is likely the point of Palin's selection, not the pipe dream of turning liberal women to vote for a GOP ticket.

[MJ]

"In part, it's because an honest education of the public on the candidates' major policy differences would hand this election to Obama in a landslide, driving down ratings because people wouldn't be chewing their nails staring at the screen every minute in anticipation of what's going to happen."

Really? Obama thinks it's a good idea to raise capital gains taxes in an inflationary economy out of a sense of "fairness" but Marcotte thinks that Obama's policies are just so obviously better that he'd win for sure if someone would only explain them to the voters properly. Amanda, your delusions are just so cute.

[MJ]

"The main group of voters as concerned about gender as the mainstream media might be right-wing men who become very anxious at the idea of female authority,..."

Right wing men are anxious about women in authority? Uh yeah, sure. Right wing men are anxious about the kind of woman you'd want to put into authority does not mean they don't like female authority figures at all. Th enthusiasm for Palin on the right would seem to debunked Marcotte's thesis even before it was made.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Kath, that is just the perfect picture of St Hill.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

t's "bated."

Not if you're Urkobold.

[Urkobold?]

BATED BREATH IS DISGUSTING; THEN AGAIN, IF THE URKOBOLD COULD BATE WITH HIS MOUTH, HE'D NEVER LEAVE HIS HOME.

[rana]

"Most voters, like all other forms of humanity, are too fuckin' dumb for words. I'm constantly flabbergasted by the stupidity and ignorance displayed by my fellow Homo sapiens."

QFT. Many times I have thought and said the same thing... the masses are asses.
(just being an echo... Im tired of all the Palin talk).

[R C Dean]

Many times I have thought and said the same thing... the masses are asses.

Unfortunately, its a short step from this to the conclusion that the masses need large chunks of their lives organized and managed by their Betters. I'll pass, thanks.

[LarryA]

In part, it's because an honest education of the public on the candidates' major policy differences would hand this election to Obama in a landslide, driving down ratings because people wouldn't be chewing their nails staring at the screen every minute in anticipation of what's going to happen.

This from the one who starts out, "Voters aren't that stupid?" This is a typical "We know what's right and the voters are too uninformed to see the Truth" liberal. (There are counterparts on the conservative side.)

I mean, really, is there anyone who is even mildly interested in the election left, who does not understand what the Obama and McCain policies are?