Reason Writers Around Town: Kerry Howley on Lipstick Libertarians

Over at Bloggingheads.tv, Senior Editor Kerry Howley discusses feminism, libertarianism, birthrates, and much more with The Atlantic's Megan McArdle. Click on the image below to watch.

Comments

[Brian Sorgatz]

Since you're sporting enough to call yourselves lipstick libertarians, I'll have to blog about your discussion in some detail at Reflections on Playboy soon.

It's politically complicated for a guy to mention, but you two are reinforcing the positive stereotypes about brainy brunettes. I don't know if it's good, bad, or neutral for feminism, but it's fascinating.

[Warty]

In my imagination, you two are planning a rainbow party. I'm not about to watch the video and spoil that image.

[Your Mother]

You girls would be so pretty if you just did something about your hair and makeup.

[Fratboy libertarian]

Kiss! Kiss! Kiss! Kiss!

[LT Nixon]

For a fun drinking game, see if you can spot whenever Kerry rolls her eyes while McArdle drones on and on. It's hard for me to be a big fan of McArdle when she makes ridiculous assertions about the military being a bunch of dumb kids with guns.

[Episiarch]

In my imagination, you two are planning a rainbow party

lulz?

[MikeT]

If one is really a libertarian, then how can one subscribe to an ideology that has to be redefined in such a tortured manner to be individualistic as feminism? The very idea of feminism is a collective identity political system. Not that I am surprised, since many libertarians are so enamored of left-wing politics.

[Jack]

"It seems highly probable that there's some selection bias. But a desire to kick some ass is only one reason to become a police officer or a soldier. There's also a desire for justice, an interest in protecting your community, a sense of duty to something larger than yourself, a desire to do something really important with your life, like, say, put it between your beloved home and war's desolation. What do I expect from people like that? Quite a lot, actually."

Yeah, McArdle really hates the troops there. I dig Megan because she manages to simultaneously infuriate No True Scotsman libertarian essentialists and left wing feminists who think conservatism is a betrayal of her vagina.

[thoreau]

How did I know even before clicking that the thread would go down this road?

[Warty]

Lipstick. Rainbow parties. Babes. This isn't hard.

Heh. Hard.

the thread would go down this road

*snicker*

[robc]

For some reason, threads like this always remind me of the "men and women cant be friends" scene from When Harry Met Sally.

[Bingo]

thoreau:

I had to physically restrain myself from touching the keyboard when there were 0 comments.

[MP]

thoreau,

If the level of maturity of H&R posters reached the point that a thread like this would not occur, then there'd probably be little reason to hang out here in the first place.

[Mean Guy]

I'm sure it's fascinating but I'd rather perform my own lobotomy.
Who has an ice pick?

[Bingo]

Girl's got quite the noggin, glad she's on our team! *friendly, athletic slap on the ass*

[Brian Sorgatz]

Since "essentialist" is already being hurled as an insult around here, I want to defend evolutionary psychology (broadly speaking). If you're epistemologically willing to defend evolutionary biology in general, you have to acknowledge EP's basic premises for consistency's sake.

[SugarFree]

Feminism is perfectly compatible with libertarianism when you take the simplest definition of it, i.e. "equality between the sexes."

Feminism only runs aground when it conflates the actions of individual men to denote the attitudes of all men and decide it's a conspiracy. That's when they want the government to practice thought control and it collapses into just another flavor in the Baskin-Robbins of authoritarianism.

[Brian Sorgatz]

I'm 35 minutes into the video. Yes, Megan, smart is sexy!

[mrk]

Please find a better image. They kind of look a little bit like Bert and Ernie in that one.

[Nigel Watt]

just another flavor in the Baskin-Robbins of authoritarianism

/me adds that to his stock phrases

[R C Dean]

How did I know even before clicking that the thread would go down this road?

Because you had already started down that road before checking the comments?

I had to physically restrain myself from touching the keyboard when there were 0 comments.

I suspect we all know why you weren't touching the keyboard, Bingo.

Yes, Megan, smart is sexy!

True dat.

[Orange Line Special]

It's politically complicated for a guy to mention, but you two are reinforcing the positive stereotypes about brainy brunettes.

Oh yes, they're both very brilliant (in the "libertarian" sense, that is).

[SugarFree]

They kind of look a little bit like Bert and Ernie in that one.

Bert and Ernie were a couple, so does mean Kerry and Megan.... [WARREN'S HEAD 'ASPLODE]

[MikeT]

Feminism is perfectly compatible with libertarianism when you take the simplest definition of it, i.e. "equality between the sexes."

In other words, it's perfectly compatible when you ignore anything beyond the most superficial definition, especially virtually every work that has come out under the label.

Feminism only runs aground when it conflates the actions of individual men to denote the attitudes of all men and decide it's a conspiracy.

Most feminists are guilty of this behavior.

That's when they want the government to practice thought control and it collapses into just another flavor in the Baskin-Robbins of authoritarianism.

In other words, when it is the sort of feminism practice by Pandagon, Feministe, Feministing, etc., ie mainstream, self-identified feminism, it becomes authoritarian.

I think female libertarians who call themselves feminists would be a lot better off admitting, if they're actually libertarians, that their primary focus is actually individual liberties that tend to primarily concern women, not feminism.

[prolefeed]

Well, Howley is a libertarian, and she is wearing lipstick, so it would seem a stretch for her to get all worked up over the "lipstick libertarians" label.

Unless it's like a drinking rules violation, where the label implies she's not a REAL libertarian.

Would it be so hard to post an edited 10 minute version of these bloggingheads videos for those of us with less than copious amounts of time?

[shrike]

Any chick who classifies themself as a libertarian, atheist, or Tom Waits fan automatically gets extra Hotness points - but not quite as many points as "bisexual" garners.

[Brian Sorgatz]

The drive for "monster children" they describe has something healthy for libertarianism in it. With a little luck, the de facto monopoly (through preventive taxes) on early education by the government is too stupid to survive a nation of mothers so obsessively doting.

[Brian Sorgatz]

Will be too stupid.

[prolefeed]

I think female libertarians who call themselves feminists would be a lot better off admitting, if they're actually libertarians, that their primary focus is actually individual liberties that tend to primarily concern women, not feminism.

I see nothing wrong with trying to reclaim a respectable word like "feminist" that has been tarred by authoritarians, just as using "classical liberal" to reclaim a good word that has been sullied seems appropriate.

[Jim Bob]

How did I know even before clicking that the thread would go down this road?

Seems that any thread featuring Kerry's picture/byline/hint that she may have been in the area while it was being posted results in this sort of thread.

>_>

[robc]

but not quite as many points as "bisexual" garners.

A friend of mine was at the 1992 GOP convention. He met a chick there. It turns out "Bisexuals for Buchanan" was a small, but non-empty, set.

[Nigel Watt]

A friend of mine was at the 1992 GOP convention. He met a chick there. It turns out "Bisexuals for Buchanan" was a small, but non-empty, set.

Sir, you just blew my mind.

[SugarFree]

Feminism is perfectly compatible with libertarianism when you take the simplest definition of it, i.e. "equality between the sexes."

In other words, it's perfectly compatible when you ignore anything beyond the most superficial definition, especially virtually every work that has come out under the label.

Feminism as an idea is quite simple, but it can go off the rails. It's has a lot to teach libertarians, really. If you've ever said that "Libertarianism is concerned with human freedom, who's against freedom?" you've made the same mistake as authoritarian feminism when they assert that "Feminism is about equality, who against equality?" The devil is always in the details, but that doesn't mean the simple definitions are fundamentally flawed. I don't have a problem with feminism, I have a problem with the way authoritarian feminists use it. My bafflement of humorless people in general only compounds my derision.

Most of the really bad things done in the world have been thought up and put in motion by humorless people. It's the serious ones you have to watch out for.

[Brian Sorgatz]

Girl's got quite the noggin, glad she's on our team! *friendly, athletic slap on the ass*

Was somebody calling me a sexist pig? I totally wouldn't mind if Megan or Kerry made public comments about my freckles. Therefore, I think I have integrity here.

[Mike Laursen]

Oh yes, they're both very brilliant (in the "libertarian" sense, that is).

What is your point, Lonewacko? Do you realize the Megan McArdle piece you linked to said that she respects your anti-immigration views? Perhaps you missed the gist of what she wrote because you're not a native English speaker?

[Episiarch]

Most of the really bad things done in the world have been thought up and put in motion by humorless people. It's the serious ones you have to watch out for.

Oh yeah? Hitler could tell a joke:

"My dog has no nose!"

"How does he smell?"

"Awful!"

[ktc2]

Kerry is hotter. She wins. No need to watch the video unless they get naked and wrestle in some jello.

[PFJ]

Yes, Yes.

/deadspin'd.

[BakedPenguin]

Oh, we have Lonewacko's brilliant magazine over at Urkobold. He's so much smarter than us libertarians, we had to share.

[Seanfucious]

This thread is awesome. Not only is this video being brought up three weeks after it actually was posted, but there was also a deadspin reference. Speaking of Deadspin,

http://hitbyapitch.com/2008/07/31/the-assholes-guide-to-insulting-women/

It's awesomely hilarious.

btw, sorry for looking like who doesn't know how to hyperlink, because I hate html.

[pgt]

This thread has over three dozen comments so far and no one has suggested that a much simpler title might be:

Cosmetarians.

[Seanfucious]

looking like a tool*

/looks like more of a tool now

[Bingo]

pgt wins.

[Alley]

This is an interesting discussion, with a fairly sophisticated grasp of feminism generally. However, like many of the commenters, they slip too easily into assuming that feminism is one thing. In fact there are many forms of feminist thought and politics. Importantly, both Howley and McArdle ignore the long tradition of feminist critiques of the state. This tradition is large and diverse and deserves to be taken seriously by libertarians, even if they are not always *libertarian* critiques of the state. For instance, the state and "patriarchy" (for what that term is worth) are not distinct systems of power. The state interlocks with and supports patriarchal social relations and (certain) men's power, just as it is embedded in most other systems of inequality and power relations. In a similar vein, libertarians might enjoy the withering radical feminist critiques of Marxism. On the other hand, the bloggers do a good job of making the point that a critique of the state is not sufficient for understanding power.

[joshua corning]

Mandatory "this is the reason why there are so few libertarian women" post

[DannyK]

Mandatory "this is the reason why there are so few libertarian women" post

Eh, any unmoderated forum gets nasty like this. I think it sucks, but it doesn't seem likely to change any time soon.

(Making Light is a good example of a liberty-oriented online community that doesn't do misogyny -- it seems to be a lot of work to keep it that way.)

[The Angry Optimist]

I love how the womenfolk* have a conniption every time that their looks are complimented, but will join in on say, the Michelle Malkin/Ann Coulter threads where "SHE HAS TEH ADAMZ APPLE" is the most intelligent post.

* - general observation. Not all womenfolk.

[Happy Jack]

Oh, we have Lonewacko's brilliant magazine over at Urkobold. He's so much smarter than us libertarians, we had to share.

What, no front page article about cornbread?

Mandatory "this is the reason why there are so few libertarian women" post

That which doesn't kill Kerry, only makes her stronger. She's going to live in Iowa, after all. Being exposed to the meat packers here should acclimate her to the culture of Ames, such as it is.

[Flunky]

I liked the gap-toothed one--too bad her mom never sent her to a dentist. The uglier one's okay too, I guess. But where are the hot-ass libertarian women, grrrrrrrr?

[Bob Hope]

But where are the hot-ass libertarian women, grrrrrrrr?

They're all chained up in Drew Carey's dungeon.

[Rick H.]

Oh, so now the term "lipstick libertarian" isn't the blood libel McArdle was making it out to be, less than four months ago? Sheeesh, whatta dick.

I like Kerry's writing, but why in videos must she be teamed with the dumbest of media pseudo-intellectuals? It is unseemly.

[Dayton]

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rry's writing, but why in videos must she be teamed with the dumbest of media pseudo-intellectuals? It is unseemly.

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[siberback]

In my imagination, you two are planning a rainbow party. I'm not about to watch the video and spoil that image. mirc indir mevlana s?zleri