Screw Obama: Crank Up the A.C.

In today's excellent New York Times Findings column, John Tierney gives us 10 things not to worry about as we head off to the beach for vacation (if only…). Among them: Cell phone induced cancer, food miles, the Arctic's missing ice, and my favorite:

Your car's planet-destroying A/C. No matter how guilty you feel about your carbon footprint, you don't have to swelter on the highway to the beach. After doing tests at 65 miles per hour, the mileage experts at edmunds.com report that the aerodynamic drag from opening the windows cancels out any fuel savings from turning off the air-conditioner.

So don't listen to Obama when he says:

"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times … and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK."

In the car, at least, enjoy the sweet, cool, conditioned air, guilt free. Opening the windows is a drag.

More from my old boss Tierney on Martians and South Park in reason.

Comments

[Naga Sadow]

My Z28 gets less gas mileage than most SUV's. Take that Obama!

[Monster Truck]

Kath, be sure to let us know the next time your house is moving at 65 miles an hour.

[Tbone]

Ignoring life cycle costs and presuming that a few billion pounds of GWG halocarbons never escape the AC loops.

But I'll be clicking it on shortly in the 102 Heat Index today.

[J sub D]

I've heard this before. It always made sense to me and I really wanted to believe.

The confirmation is nice.

[Seanfucious]

The Earth can heat up as much as it wants, as long as my AC keeps my room nice and cool.

[karl]

I live in Phoenix, and believed (when I was young) that not using my car's AC was a way to build character. Boy, was I wrong!

Incidentally, my 1993 Corolla gets 24.5 mpg in city traffic with AC and 26 mpg without AC. On the freeway it gets 36 mpg with AC. That's character!

[dave W.]

Sometimes I miss Julian Sanchez. Like now.

[Cool Cal]

Evidently Messrs. Obama and Gore would have other (developing) countries give up those indulgences as well. I'd love to see either of these fellows step up to a podium before a throng of abjectly impoverished villagers in India and tell them they'll have to stay "sustainable". I'd hope for their sake the villagers don't have odd stones and torches at the ready.

[The Angry Optimist]

coincidentally enough, no one ever misses you, Dave W.

[prolefeed]

Technically, at low speeds, such as stop and go city driving, you get better gas mileage with the A/C off and the windows open, since very little aerodynamic drag at low speeds. At freeways speeds, better gas mileage with the windows up.

Of course, if there is no aerodynamic drag from air coming in through open windows, there's little cooling effect from rolling down the window, because the car isn't creating any breeze. All you get is the natural breezes.

So I just run the A/C all the time. My comfort is worth more to me than a few bucks worth of gas each month.

[Occam\'s toothbrush]

Apparently, they didn't consider the very clever workaround of leaving the AC off and leaving the windows up, which I'm pretty sure is more energy efficient than either of the alternatives they considered.

[Dave W.]

no one ever misses you, Dave W.

sure there are. Why do you think there are so few reg commenters left from the glorious McJersey Jones era of the HnR blog?

Don't forget to check out my patent law blog at:

http://fedcirpatentcaseblurbs.blogspot.com/

Scorchin' commentary!

[Fluffy]

This week I got to experience "coming attractions" of the way politicians will pivot on a lot of their calls for conservation when it starts to impact tax receipts.

I saw in the Boston Globe that Bay state politicians are angry because people are driving less and buying less gasoline. Because of this, gas tax receipts are down, and Massachusetts Turnpike Authority toll receipts are down. Officials are brainstorming to come up with ways to raise revenue that won't allow those pesky conservers out there to evade paying the gas taxes the state demands by cheating and driving less or using more fuel efficient vehicles. They want to come up with a way to charge you for every mile you drive everywhere in the state, and to do so independently of the gas tax, so that those cheaters driving Prius' have to pay a lot too.

This of course should be a lesson to everyone who believes politicians when they argue that one benefit of a gas tax is that it discourages consumption. It should also be a lesson to people who think that the politicians will be happy if the carbon taxes they devise to discourage GHG's actually work and drive down the production of GHG's. They're full of crap. The purpose of taxes is to raise revenue, period, and if the conservation goals talked about when selling these taxes to the public are actually met, the politicians will get pissed off because their revenue goals won't be.

[Flatulor]

Of course, if there is no aerodynamic drag from air coming in through open windows, there's little cooling effect from rolling down the window, because the car isn't creating any breeze. All you get is the natural breezes.

Or you can make your own breeze.

[Antiglobalist]

The real energy cost in the USA is infrastructure, which per the Nanny State's goals, aims to expend itself on those least able to take care of themselves.

We don't need as many malls, stores, etc as we have, and we don't need as many people as we have, especially since most of them are useless.

Imagine 500 million people with IQs over 120 enjoying air conditioning and normal sized cars, instead of 7 billion mostly idiots wasting time.

[Taktix?]

Whoowee, I took mah tailgate off mah truck and, shoot, I saved me 1/10 of a gallon per fill-up.

Seriously, when people talk about turning the A/C off, removing the tailgate, etc., they are talking about saving fractions of a gallon per full tank. That's it.

You can save more by putting about 3 ounces of Acetone for every 10 gallons of gasoline when you fill up.

Look it up...

[The Angry Optimist]

sure there are. Why do you think there are so few reg commenters left from the glorious McJersey Jones era of the HnR blog?

there are quite a few of us left, thanks very much. I remember fondly the era of bump n' go handguns.

Imagine 500 million people with IQs over 120 enjoying air conditioning and normal sized cars, instead of 7 billion mostly idiots wasting time.

Right on! I'd add a caveat: misanthropic assholes such as yourself go first. I'll even buy you the bullets!

[prolefeed]

You want to save gas, here are the things that make a big difference:

1) buy a smaller, lighter car

2) get a smaller engine in the model you prefer

3) avoid jackrabbit starts

4) use the cruise control when driving at steady speeds

[Naga Sadow]

Antiglobalist,

You seem to be certain of your place in the world, i.e. you are under the impression you are not stupid and useless. I admire that.

[Anonymous]

You can save more by putting about 3 ounces of Acetone for every 10 gallons of gasoline when you fill up.

Only if the vehicle is designed for the high-octane gasoline that you're not feeding it. Otherwise, you're in for knocks or worse, as a result of premature combustion (that's what she said).

[Dave W.]

there are quite a few of us left, thanks very much. I remember fondly the era of bump n' go handguns.

Linkee dinkee doo:

http://news.google.com/news?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1226554456

[Bender]

WOOOOOOOHHHHHHH!

[J sub D]

You want to save gas, here are the things that make a big difference:

1) buy a smaller, lighter car

2) get a smaller engine in the model you prefer

3) avoid jackrabbit starts

4) use the cruise control when driving at steady speeds

5) Check your damned tire pressure! Under inflated tires cost plenty.

[K. Bolino]

While prolefeed mentioned stop and go driving at low speeds, there are often times when I'll be cruising at low speeds (25-40 mph), on country/residential roads or through a stretch of green lights. In many weather conditions, that's more than sufficient to provide a cooling breeze.

Since the force of resistance from the air upon an object is a function of its velocity, I'm wary about accepting the results of this 65 mph study as generally applicable. I'd be interested to see the results of multiple tests--at various speeds with various cars of different makes, vintages, and body types--before jumping to any broad conclusions.

[Taktix?]

I'd be interested to see the results of multiple tests--at various speeds with various cars of different makes, vintages, and body types--before jumping to any broad conclusions.

All cars must be treated as individuals. I thought this was a libertarian blog...

[e]

Oddly, Barack Obama is never mentioned in the Tierney article, which is about which saves more gas, AC or rolled down windows (the former). KMW, if we want to "screw Obama" shouldn't we do the *opposite* - i.e., roll down the windows and use more gas? That'll learn that socialist Barack to meddle with your driving habits!

[Jim Henley]

e and Monster Truck: Katherine's jibe against Obama doesn't have to make any sense. It just needs to be "conservative." There are ecological niches that reason staffers fit into. KMW and Michael Moynihan are in the starboard niches. What is important is that they represent. It is a big tent at reason.

[Jon H]

When I want to annoy Obama, I put a black plastic tarp over the upholstery, let it get good and hot in the sun, then I sit there in a pool of my own warm urine while the A/C blasts at me.

[Chloe]

The last thing I think about when the heat index is 110 degrees, and the humidity is 78%, and I've taken off all the clothes I'm allowed to take off in the office, is what someone in freaking Switzerland thinks of me cranking up the A/C.

F-off Obama. I bet Michelle ain't having to sweat in her Jackie Kennedy rip-off clothing.

[thoreau]

Quit all that lefty-sounding "ecological" talk, Mr. Henley, or we'll have to take away your secret decoder ring!

[Cool Cal]

The little lady was at Bar Marmont the other night and every other God damned person had an Urban Outfitters minted Barack Obama t-shirt on in one or another clever incarnation (Do you smell what Barack is cooking, I'll be Barack, The Empire Strikes Barack, and of course the ubiquitous tri-color soviet style HOPE design, among others).

What none of these hipsters realized was that these shirts were ironic in more than just their literal witticisms, but in the circumstances of their manufacture. Consider the fact that companies created shirts to compete in a niche market (though not so niche it would seem anymore), emblazoned with the likeness of a man who has outright political contempt for the free market. Holy frozen Pabst Blue Ribbon, Batman! - THAT'S some serious irony.

[Cool Cal]

I don't mean to turn this into an anti-Obamarama forum, but it just boggles me that people who would otherwise characterize themselves as cynics have been swept up in Hope, Change, etc. I mean these are the same people who can't express any sentiment (think 4th of July) without a smirk unless punctuated with ", man".

[Vladimir Lenin]

A picture is worth a thousand rubles.

http://massbackwards.blogspot.com/2008/07/picture-is-worth-1000-words-rubles.html

[Taktix?]

Hey, what's wrong with punctuating with man, man?

But seriously, the Hope and/or Change mantra will be increasingly ironic as Obama continues to triangulate.

"Hope and Change, but let me play to the middle with the same ol' same ol' until I win, then Hope, and Change!"

[JW]

Mythbusters covered this as well: http://mythbusters-wiki.discovery.com/page/Keeping+the+Car+Cool?t=anon.

Yeah, I know, it ain't scientific.

My favorites are the drafters, the ones that talgate tractor trailers to reduce drag. "I'm-a puttin' my life in mortal danger, but hoooo-wee! look at that mileage!"

[Occam\'s toothbrush]

Wasn't KMW the one who wrote a diatribe against compact flourescent bulbs last year? Why does Katherine hate the Earth?

[joe]

Anyone with a female screen name could get this crowd to drink urine by saying it would piss off Barack Obama or Al Gore.

97 comments of "Woo I drank piss algore!" Easily.

[Dave W.]

can I just say that Mr. Henley is such an improvement over Jon Hankie!!!

[Anonymous]

A picture is worth a thousand rubles.

Thanks a lot, asshole. Now I have one more site to bookmark. You think I have all the time in the day to flip through some loser's entertaining shit?

Actually, yeah, I mostly do.

[Rob]

Saturated fats in a low-carb diet don't have the same effects as saturated fats in a normal diet. They're basically rehashing the Atkins/South Beach diets with less meat (as explained in some of the article's links). Kinda misleading?

[bigbigslacker]

Occam, CFL's are the cat's meow. I suggest you use them in your refrigerator and oven. Also, outdoors in sub-zero weather. Good luck.

I think the point may have been the state mandating their use through elimination of your choice to use an incandescent. Nice try though - maybe a B for effort.

Also, they don't last as long as stated, their light output is questionable in quantity and quality, and they attract bugs when used outdoors.

(that said, I CHOOSE to use about ten of them in and around my house because I'm a Jew)

[bigbigslacker]

I apologize for the Jew crack. I meant Scotsman.

[prolefeed]

While prolefeed mentioned stop and go driving at low speeds, there are often times when I'll be cruising at low speeds (25-40 mph), on country/residential roads or through a stretch of green lights. In many weather conditions, that's more than sufficient to provide a cooling breeze.

A/C versus open windows is probably a wash at those speeds.

But the main point is, do whichever gives you the most enjoyment -- the two styles aren't that much different in terms of fuel economy. No point worrying about small kine stuffs.

[Paul]

Anyone with a female screen name could get this crowd to drink urine by saying it would piss off Barack Obama or Al Gore.

Not true in the first... I'll withhold judgement on the second. And on the second it wouldn't take someone with a female screen name.

[Paul]

What is important is that they represent. It is a big tent at reason.

Yeah, and it's getting a little crowded in here. And I think joe stole the last beer in the cooler.

[Neu Mejican]

What an oddly disingenuous posting by KMU.

It isn't odd that KMU is disingenuous, it is just that this one was so obviously disingenuous.

[Neu Mejican]

Double those "U's"

[The Angry Optimist]

Anyone with a female screen name could get this crowd to drink urine by saying it would piss off Barack Obama or Al Gore.

I don't even think it'd take a female to get joe to drink Obama's urine.

[thoreau]

Then again, drinking one's own piss is a great way to keep anybody from testing the piss for drugs.

Anyway, these comments give me a whole different perspective on the H&R drinking game.

[Jim Henley]

But the main point is, do whichever gives you the most enjoyment -- the two styles aren't that much different in terms of fuel economy.

No no no no no! Do whatever continues to feed and be fed by the vicious circle of your resentment against (pick one) a) Barack Obama; b) Al Gore; c) Shit, I don't know who else to hate! Michael Moore?

Jon H. at 8:17 shows you how.

[P Brooks]

This windows-up vs windows-down aero drag thing has been well known to *some* people for many years. I would say 65mph is an unnecessarily high cutoff, for modern aerodynamically clean designs.

And the mythbusters did an episode on tailgates- leave it on. The best part was the homemade "hydro tunnel" complete with oatmeal, for visual reference.

I don't believe Jim Henley ever had a decoder ring.

[bigbigslacker]

If you really want to save gas, don't sit there like an idiot just because you missed the green turn arrow on a "left turn on green arrow only" intersection. Look for cars, "special" cars in particular, and blow through that baby. Also, coming to a complete stop at a stop sign in farm country wastes gas, kills kids with asthma, and lets the locals know you are from out of town. If the cops have a problem with this they can mail me the fucking ticket, cuz at $4 per gallon I'm not pulling over.

(Jamie is out today, I'm taking his place)

[thoreau]

Then let's give Jim a ring so we can take it away from him and piss off Al Gore. Or something.

[Jennifer]

So don't listen to Obama when he says: "We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK."

I read long ago that driving with the windows down is no better for gas mileage than windows up/AC on, but what the devil does that have to do with Obama's statement quoted here? He wasn't calling for people to turn off their automobile air conditioners; he was criticizing low-gas-mileage SUVs, and heavy use of home AC.

Dammit. Now y'all've got me defending Obama. Bleah.

[The Angry Optimist]

It's the general attitude, Jennifer, that's being mocked, and deservedly so. People older than me were told by Jimmy Carter to put on a sweater...it's the condescending elitism/environmentalist impulse to control that gives us collective jock itch.

[thoreau]

That's it, I'm going to buy a coal-powered Humvee and drive it to an appliance store where I'll buy the least efficient air condition that I can find.

Just to stick it to Jimmy Carter. The man has it coming. Do you have any idea how many kids die from peanut allergies every year?

[The Angry Optimist]

if Obama had been talking about efficiently cooling your house to 72 degrees, that'd be a fair snark, thoreau. He was talking about dialing back American comfort to suck up to other countries who have bought into "Statism. Will. Save. The. Planet!"

Oh yeah, and so will Obama. I forgot.

[Jim Henley]

Carter was the greatest libertarian President in living memory, Thoreau; still, we must hate him. HATE HATE HATE! FEEL THE BURNING PURITY OF IT! HE - something.

P Brooks: Decoder ring, phooey. I AM THE FUCKING CODE!

😉

[TallDave]

I did my part. Instead of an SUV, I bought a 7.0L Corvette.

Nancy and I are saving the planet!

[thoreau]

P Brooks: Decoder ring, phooey. I AM THE FUCKING CODE!

Jim, are you saying you're the Matrix?

Maybe a Neolibertarian will try to challenge your control of humanity.

[Mr Burns]

Am I the only one that noticed that Obama never said anything about AC in cars in that quote?

[The Angry Optimist]

No, Senor Burns, you aren't.

[P Brooks]

We don't need as many malls, stores, etc as we have

And many of them are being boarded up, right now.

And listen to JsubD- check your tire pressure, and run it at the upper limit, or higher. (You'll get a little sharper turn-in, too.)

[Gilbert Martin]

"Apparently, they didn't consider the very clever workaround of leaving the AC off and leaving the windows up, which I'm pretty sure is more energy efficient than either of the alternatives they considered."

It may be more energy efficient but it won't be more cost effective.

Getting hauled off to the hospital to be treated for heat stroke will cost you more than running the AC will.

[Jennifer]

if Obama had been talking about efficiently cooling your house to 72 degrees, that'd be a fair snark, thoreau. He was talking about dialing back American comfort to suck up to other countries who have bought into "Statism. Will. Save. The. Planet!"

Sounds to me like you're being overly picky; in context, he was saying "We can't have a super-wasteful lifestyle and expect other countries to say 'OK.'" If you want to argue with that then do so, but don't criticize the guy for not saying "We can't continue air-conditioning our homes to 72 degrees unless we switch to better forms of insulation or take advantage of geothermal heating/cooling options."

[Gilbert Martin]

"if Obama had been talking about efficiently cooling your house to 72 degrees, that'd be a fair snark, thoreau. He was talking about dialing back American comfort to suck up to other countries who have bought into "Statism. Will. Save. The. Planet!"

I beleive what Obama said was that the other countries were not going to sit back and say OK - implying that other countries have some legitimate veto power over how we choose to live.

He should have his mouth sealed forever with epoxy resin for that bullshit.

[Jim Henley]

I beleive what Obama said was that the other countries were not going to sit back and say OK - implying that other countries have some legitimate veto power over how we choose to live.

So is it that you didn't read, or that you can't?

[thoreau]

If those other countries want to tell us how to live, they'd better be careful not to mess with Jim Henley. As even Reason said:

How do you defend a country against small stateless bands of terrorists?

Jim Henley

And the same goes for the rest of you. If you want to fight some sort of Libertarian Kulturkampf, realize that you're going up against Jim Henley.

Chuck Norris watches Jim Henley movies to get scared on Halloween.

When you google for "Jim Henley weaknesses" you get "Error 404."

[nobody]

Two questions for the reason audience RE: KMW's post -

1 - Is this the most ridiculous leap of logic/misrepresentation of facts made by a reason staffer not surnamed Young?

2 - Will Weigel publicly add this to his running tally of absurd right-wing Obama conspiracy theories?

Discuss.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Plus it is a well established fact that cooling homes in Phoenix is a lot more cost effective than heating homes in New England's winter.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Besides, who the hell has their thermostat set at 72 degrees?

It's called the fargin' electric bill. Dial your thermostat down at your peril.

[Occam\'s toothbrush]

Gilbert,

Yeah, if you're among the weak and elderly perhaps. I drove from Montgomery, Alabama to Columbus, Ohio one day last August with the windows up and the AC off, and I was doing just fine. True, when I got out I did have a giant sweat stripe on my shirt where the seat belt had been, but such are the sacrifices we make for Mother Gaia.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Prolefeed lives in Hawaii, nobody ever drives faster than 35 except the touristas and gas is eleven bucks a gallon.

[Kolohe]

Plus it is a well established fact that cooling homes in Phoenix is a lot more cost effective than heating homes in New England's winter.

I'm not so sure about that; at best it's not trivial obvious. Even though the delta T is generally lower for making AZ in Aug livable vice MA in Jan, when you consider entropy and thermodynamic efficiency it's a close call.

And there's the fact that there's multiple ways to heat, but only one practical way to cool (i.e. electricity).

(BTW, it's only been in last little surge that gas has been more in HI; until about a month ago, we were 4th or 5th - LA SD NY & DC metros were all more.)

[Occam\'s toothbrush]

Context of the Obama quote:

Pitching his message to Oregon's environmentally-conscious voters, Obama called on the United States to "lead by example" on global warming, and develop new technologies at home which could be exported to developing countries.

"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said.

"That's not leadership. That's not going to happen," he added.

He's saying that if we don't conserve energy, we can't expect other countries to conserve either.

[thoreau]

Is this the most ridiculous leap of logic/misrepresentation of facts made by a reason staffer not surnamed Young?

No, that distinction goes to Shikha Dalmia and her article on how Humvees are better for the environment than hybrids.

Although Dalmia is really just doing her part to help the environment: Her brain consumes no oxygen.

[The Ghost of Reason Past]

Not nice. Your heart consumes no oxygen on that post.

[max]

If the "would-be" president uses a bicycle and only flys to other countries with a minimum staff of 50 people (security including), then I will also think about buying an "eco-saving" car.. Before that, bull-sh#t yourself!

[The Angry Optimist]

Occam's - if you want to contort yourself into that position just to defend Obama, you're going to get what you deserve on January 20th.

[Jim Henley]

Provided "contort yourself into that position" means bother to read the quote accurately, yeah.

[Jim Henley]

Is this the most ridiculous leap of logic/misrepresentation of facts made by a reason staffer not surnamed Young?

Jeff Taylor's investigative report into Hillary Clinton's tears is strong competition.

[The Angry Optimist]

The larger point is this Jim: why are "expecting" other countries to conserve, and why are they projecting those expectations on us?

And why does Obama care? That's the point.

[Jim Henley]

Again, reading, a fringe activity popular early in the last century that has declined in popularity over the decades, can help answer your questions TAO. Though not currently the case, Reading used to be fundamental.

Now, in addition to making the words go across your eyeballs, you also have to make the imaginative leap of recognizing that there are people who not only accept the truth of anthropogenic global warming, but seek a global concord to mitigate it. These are not the only kinds of people in the world, but they are a kind of person in the world. The context of the linked article (here's where "reading" comes in) makes it clear that it was such an audience Obama was addressing.

That should get you most of the way there. Let me know if you need one more push after that.

[Occam\'s toothbrush]

All else aside, I'm curious as to what text was omitted from Obama's quote by the reporter (note the ellipsis). The bare quote itself makes it sound like he is saying the world should have a veto over our energy choices, making it a prime target for cherrypicking, even though the context makes it clear that's not what he meant.

[Old person]

I'm doing my part for Freedom? by driving 55 in the fast lane.

[The Angry Optimist]

Jim - I know the ostensible reason, but...

never mind. I can't have a conversation with someone who wants to condescend to me.

You want to defend this?:

"We can't drive our SUVs and, you know, eat as much as we want and keep our homes on, you know, 72 degrees at all times, whether we're living in the desert or we're living in the tundra, and then just expect every other country is going to say OK, you know, you guys go ahead keep on using 25 percent of the world's energy, even though you only account for 3 percent of the population, and we'll be fine. Don't worry about us. That's not leadership."

That's the full quote. It's that kind of college freshman claptrap that makes Obama entirely an ignorant product of the echo chamber in which I am sure he resides. Adults don't talk like this; the Green Party does.

[The Angry Optimist]

oh yes, Jim, and what the hell does eating as much as we want have to do with backing a global "concord" to "battle AGW"?

[Jim Henley]

TAO: 1) I don't much like the quote, for the record; 2) Where does your full version of the quote come from? 3) Do you know how farming actually works in this country?

[Fluffy]

Wait a second, here.

If Obama's statement is saying that the US won't be able to provide "leadership" on the global warming crisis because other countries will resent, and point to, our high energy consumption per capita and our high production of greenhouse gases per capita, that's simply true to the point of being noncontroversial.

If you don't think greenhouse gases are a problem, then you can just shrug this statement off and not care about it.

But any statement constructed in the form, "If the US does X, foreigners who believe Y will have emotional response Z" is simply an observation and should be evaluated as an observation.

If your position is "Fuck those foreigners, who cares what they think?" that's fine, really, but it really has nothing to do with whether the observation is accurate or not.

The fact that some of us are ideologically invested in opposing the policies likely to grow out of world's global warming fears doesn't really have any impact on the existence or nonexistence of those fears in non-libertarians. If a lot of people worldwide believe in global warming, those people are likely to be angry with the United States if we produce a lot of greenhouse gases. This is true whether global warming is real, or a hoax, or what have you.

It's sometimes surprising to me the way in which the people who proclaim the loudest that they don't care what people in other countries think are really prickly and sensitive when they hear that people in other countries don't approve of what the US is doing. They're basically saying, "Fuck you foreigners, we don't care what you think - but wait a second, what did you dirty foreigners just say? Did you complain about the US? I'm going to bitch and moan about that for an hour now, here I go!" If you really don't care, then show you don't care by shutting up.

[The Angry Optimist]

Quote is from here.

Yes, I am thoroughly aware of how farming works in this country. My understanding is that the largest concerns of AGW come from vehicle and industrial emissions. Obama talking about "eating as much as we want" is pretty much cribbed from the "America is the Greedy Resource Sucker" playbook. American farming is pretty low on the list of most serious scientists concerned with AGW.

[Abe]

Obama wants everyone to open the windows and turn off the AC in their houses while going 65 mph.

[R C Dean]

They want to come up with a way to charge you for every mile you drive everywhere in the state, and to do so independently of the gas tax, so that those cheaters driving Prius' have to pay a lot too.

This is being bandied about in England as well, in connection with peak time pricing for road use. Of course, the only way to do it is to put a black box in your car that monitors all your movements. I expect it will also auto-generate traffic tickets, as well.

[IOZ]

Will no one speak up for the Ecological Catastrophe Is Coming and Will Destroy Society and That's a Good Thing wing of the libertarian ideological, uh, bird?

[joe]

My understanding is that the largest concerns of AGW come from vehicle and industrial emissions...American farming is pretty low on the list of most serious scientists concerned with AGW.

There has been a good deal written about the contribution of American agricultural practices to global warming. Short version, it's a big deal - maybe not as big as auto and power-plant emissions, but a big deal nonetheless.

American agriculture is very energy-intensive, especially meat production.

[Occam\'s toothbrush]

the "America is the Greedy Resource Sucker" playbook.

This die-hard free-market libertarian must admit that America has been a greedy resource sucker for quite some time. You don't have to be a tree hugger to recognize greed, especially greed unwarranted by one's financial resources (hence this little thing called the national debt).

Our current travails are due to the fact that the game's up, and we can't afford the lifestyle to which we'd become accustomed any longer (or more precisely, it's getting harder to borrow enough to finance that lifestyle). And things are only going to get worse.

[Occam\'s toothbrush]

joe,

No way! You mean it takes energy to make oranges grow in the California desert? (;

[BCL]

I live in South Florida and drive with the AC off and the windows up. How do I stand it? Well, I use the fan and drive a white car. White cars absorb much less energy from the sun and the fan is enough to keep me cool. Try it!

[Jordan]

Two questions for the reason audience RE: KMW's post -

1 - Is this the most ridiculous leap of logic/misrepresentation of facts made by a reason staffer not surnamed Young?

2 - Will Weigel publicly add this to his running tally of absurd right-wing Obama conspiracy theories?

Discuss.

3 - Do leftwingers possess a sense of humor? Note: I'm not saying you have to find this post to be humorous, I'm just saying you have to recognize that it is, in fact, an attempt at humor.

[Neu Mejican]

3 - Do leftwingers possess a sense of humor? Note: I'm not saying you have to find this post to be humorous, I'm just saying you have to recognize that it is, in fact, an attempt at humor.

Things are funny because they're true, or so I have heard. This attempt at funny falls flat because it did not play upon a truth, but rather tried to be funny while misrepresenting Obama's position.

It is like racist humor based on untruths about a group...the joke is only funny if you buy into the prejudice premise. In this case the attempt at humor simply exposes the author as a hack. Pointing that out does not, in fact, demonstrate a lack of a sense of humor.

[economist]

Jim Henley: "Carter was the greatest libertarian president in living memory"
Is this a joke, or has Jim Henley been sprinkling meth on his agave worm recently?

[Joe Strummer]

There are ecological niches that reason staffers fit into. KMW and Michael Moynihan are in the starboard niches. What is important is that they represent. It is a big tent at reason.

And this is why I don't choose to be a movement libertarian anymore.

[Mo]

Of course, the only way to do it is to put a black box in your car that monitors all your movements.

You have one in your pocket. It's called a cell phone. And since when do you care about the government invading your privacy, RC? I thought you supported telecom immunity.

FWIW, I disagree with Obama's quote, but it's not uber controversial. He's basically saying to environmentalist that he would like the US to take a leadership role in global warming. However, we would not be able to do so if we're inefficient energy hogs because other countries will say we're hypocrites, not leader. Therefore, we to be leaders in environmental stewardship, we have to practice some energy efficiency.

Oh and per capita energy use is the wrong comparative measure, it's energy use per unit of GDP.

[Neu Mejican]

Oh and per capita energy use is the wrong comparative measure, it's energy use per unit of GDP.

It depends on the question whether you want to use one or the other.

Is the most important question about overall reduction or increased efficiency?

[Jim Henley]

Jim Henley: "Carter was the greatest libertarian president in living memory"
Is this a joke, or has Jim Henley been sprinkling meth on his agave worm recently?

I'm at least half serious. Carter deregulated trucking and air travel, two moves which have had more lasting economic benefit than just about anything else that happened in the last quarter of the 20th Century - except possibly allowing Paul Volcker, at enormous political cost to the incumbent president, to tighten money enough to kill core inflation until Dubya began his LBJ imitation (running phony wars on phony money). Of course, that was Carter too. Plus, to coin a phrase, He Kept Us Out of War. Not a bad record for a guy who had the bad fortune to become President when the bills for Johnsonism and Nixonism couldn't be stretched out any longer.

On the other hand, Carter made a speech once wearing a sweater, and Nick Gillespie vaguely remembers hating him, so it totally makes sense to discount the massive good he did the country in trying circumstances.

[Joe Strummer]

On the other hand, Carter made a speech once wearing a sweater, and Nick Gillespie vaguely remembers hating him, so it totally makes sense to discount the massive good he did the country in trying circumstances.

This reminds me of an incident once where I was at a nominally libertarian institute, and the president of this institute was writing her remarks for an introduction she was preparing to give the next day for that huckster Art Laffer. She wanted to make a point emphasizing the horror that was Jimmy Carter (to illustrate the glories of supply side and Ronald Reagan).

When I pointed out air and trucking dereg and the fact that Carter spent far less than Nixon, LBJ, or George W. Bush, she got pissed off because I wasn't providing the truthiness required to make her point.

Such is life in the libertarian movement.

[Tom Scudder]

Also, Jim deliberately set the bar pretty low with the "best ... president in living memory" clause. Who's the competition? Reagan, I guess, for those libertarians who think the military doesn't count as a federal program.

[IOZ]

My grandmother can remember Silent Cal. Boo-yah!

[Birdzilla]

OBAMA gets the NOBEL PEACE PRIZE and he hasnt done anything for peace might as well give in to FIDEL CASTRO or ASAMMA BIN LADEN

[wizard of oz books]

With many new announcement about the wizard of oz movies in the news, you might want to consider starting to obtain Wizard of Oz book series either as collectible or investment at RareOzBooks.com.

[Max James]

In last few years the usage of electricity in the american homes is shows almost 15% decrease which is quiet surprising. Our life is more machine oriented in last few years so in papers or general perception it has to be increased but it's decreasing. Air conditioners are consuming almost 60 to 70% or home user electricity.An energy efficient ac's are the simple solution for that.Keep maintain your ac so you can better save the energy and the environment.