Rush Limbaugh, Francophile

There are tons of fascinating details in the New York Times's long profile of talk radio king Rush Limbaugh, from his twelve-step pill purge to his dismissals of competitors Michael Savage ("He's not even in my rearview mirror") and Sean Hannity ("I have no competitors…Hannity isn't even close to me"). But who knew Limbaugh favored pommes frites over freedom fries?

Unlike many right-wing talk-show hosts, Limbaugh does not view France with hostility. On the contrary, he is a Francophile. His salon, he told me, is meant to suggest Versailles. His main guest suite, which I did not personally inspect, was designed as an exact replica of the presidential suite of the George V Hotel in Paris.

Whole thing here.

Comments

[John thoams]

Sorry, but Rush Limbaugh is an IDIOT. There is just no better word to describe him.

JT
http://www.FireMe.To/udi

[Dagny T.]

I was wondering if the good folks at reason would catch that article.

I've never heard his show before, so maybe I'm the only one who was a little surprised at just how stupid he sounded.

The quote where he's listing his oh-so fascinating reasons for owning multiple cars highlights a particular pet peeve: "Firstly...[blah blah blah], two..."

Ouch.

[Right Wing Shill]

Too bad REASON can't afford him. he is more libertarian than some of your contributors.

[Dagny T.]

Too bad REASON can't afford him. he is more libertarian than some of your contributors.

Drink!

[Naga Sadow]

But I thought Rush hated everyone and everything? Sometimes I've feared he may be Satan himself . . . maybe I was wrong. Unless Satan is a Francophile, of course.

[Fluffy]

I do not want to RTFA, so can anyone tell me if the interviewer gets Rush to address the pretty blatant and obvious fact that when the Clintons were in the White House, he routinely criticized them on small-government and libertarian grounds, but then for some reason forgot he ever said any of those things when W became President?

I'm looking for an exchange of this kind, perhaps:

Interviewer: So how do you reconcile your ongoing support for the worst big-government President in history with the libertarian rhetoric you used against Bill Clinton?

Limbaugh: Well, that's because I'm a two-faced worthless rat fucker.

Interviewer: Oh, I see. So what you're saying is that your deafness is the result of the fact that you had to gouge your own eardrums out after hearing yourself smugly repeat libertarian criticisms of Bill Clinton that you didn't really believe and never really believed?

Limbaugh: Yes, basically it was a combination of not being able to stand hearing myself and extreme personal self-loathing that led me to mutilate my own ears.

Any section of the article that sounds anything like that?

[Old Bull Lee]

My parents listened to his show when I was a kid. It's easy to talk shit about him now, but hearing him rail against big government and preach about capitalism were a few of the seeds I grew my own libertarian ideas from.

[Fluffy]

It's easy to talk shit about him now, but hearing him rail against big government and preach about capitalism were a few of the seeds I grew my own libertarian ideas from.

Even though it all turned out to be a lie?

The degree to which I admired that aspect of his work in the 90's is one of my primary reasons for hating him now.

[Dagny T.]

Fluffy,

extreme personal self-loathing that led me to mutilate my own ears

You came pretty close. He essentially admits that his substance abuse problem was a result of just that, which he's ostensibly replaced with baseless overconfidence?

It's an interesting read if glimpsing the psyche of the extremely un-self-aware is your thing.

[ed]

I do not want to RTFA

Har har har. Don't let that stop you from commenting!

[Eric Atkinson]

Sorry, but Rush Limbaugh is an IDIOT. There is just no better word to describe him.

It should read,"John Thoams is an IDOIT". There is just no better word to describe him."
As well to say no one will pay "John Thoams" a dime for his opinion, unlike the $40o million Rush get for his opinion.

[ed]

Sorry, but Rush Limbaugh is an IDIOT

I'm not aware of any self-made, multimillionaire idiots. One might very well disagree with his methods and his politics, but he's certainly no fool.

[Clever Hans]

Even though it all turned out to be a lie?

The degree to which I admired that aspect of his work in the 90's is one of my primary reasons for hating him now.

He has criticized Bush on libertarian grounds. Repeatedly. He just hates the Democrats more.

Certainly, you can criticize his foreign policy as be un-libertarian. I don't think that's inconsistent with his philosophy, though. He's always been a "peace through strength" type. You just disagree with him on that point.

[Gay Marriage]

Rush can't be the least bit libertarian if he doesn't support the most important libertarian issue (me).

[Old Bull Lee]

Fluffy - I feel the same way, i.e. betrayed, but I think most people just hate him because they think they're supposed to. Going to school with gun-toting kids housing project kids and liberal teachers in the politically correct Clinton era, it was nice to hear something different (so maybe it's just nostalgia).

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"Limbaugh: Well, that's because I'm a two-faced worthless rat fucker."

Well, let's just say he knows his audience...

Here's what I know about Limbaugh. He's fat, he's a pussy, and he's stupid.

And yes, dumbasses can become self-made (whatever the fuck that means) millionaires. It happens all the time. The market is good because it allows us choices and is flexible, not because the people it ultimately rewards are deserving of it.

[TallDave]

I listen to Rush maybe once or twice a year, but it's got to be hilarious to any free-marketer to see the MSM abdicate a gigantic media market this way. They just can't help themselves.

Rush certainly isn't a libertarian; he's a movement conservative, arugably THE movement conservative.

It's sad he either doesn't see the parallels between the WOD and his own painkiller use, or at least doesn't think that image sells as well as being a so-con.

[JW Gacy]

Gay Marriage: "Rush can't be the least bit libertarian if he doesn't support the most important libertarian issue (me)."

I'm a bit puzzled by that one. Why would he even care?

[Eric Atkinson]

Fluffy...Its time for your fucking GeoDon.
Put the capsule in you mouth this time...it not a suppository.

[TallDave]

but then for some reason forgot he ever said any of those things when W became President?

Same reason the MSM has forgotten all about how the wonderfulness and necessity of campaign finance reform: he does the shilling for the GOP that the MSM does for the Dems.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"politically correct Clinton era"
I have to ask you where the fuck you lived, because during the Clinton era all the people I lived near talked about was that "nigger-lover Clinton." And the guy was accused of murdering people, and initiating military action to cover his hummer, and leaving the guys in Somalia to be killed, and violating the Constitution in Bosnia, and etc., etc., etc., etc., all the time....

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"Rush certainly isn't a libertarian; he's a movement conservative, arugably THE movement conservative. "

Well said Talldave....
Now I'm going to take a shower...

[Eric Atkinson]

Here's what I know about Limbaugh. He's fat, he's a pussy, and he's stupid.
Add to that... Mr Nice Guy is a poor dumb whinny bich.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"he does the shilling for the GOP that the MSM does for the Dems."

OK, that's better, I can disagree with Talldave.

The MSM leans LEFT (not necessarily Democrat), like most professional groups (attorneys, social workers, college professors). But they are HARDLY the coordinated lapdogs of the left the way that right wing radio is the lapdog of, not conservatism (that would be to falsely attribute to them principles they do not have,) but of the Republican party.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Eric, sorry but Rush Limbaugh is a fat man. If you don't realize that you should look up "fat" in the dictionary.

And the guy, though talking tough about character and drugs fell to them. And he didn't serve his nation because of a boil on his fat (previously established) ass. So yes, I think he is a pussy.

And the guy is no James Thurber, or hell, no Adam Sandler. He's a pretty dumb human being.

Sorry to piss on your boyfriend and make you cry though. Man up bud, there are plenty of other dicks you can suck.

[Eric Atkisnon]

Mr. Nice Guy...I have never "sucked a dick".
What is it like?

[Tbone]

Limbaugh is no idiot. He is a self-aggrandizing partisan hack fully aware that the projection he (and his counterparts) cast onto opponents while ignoring the same offenses of their own candidates is rank hypocricy - he just doesn't care. He keeps up the conservative moral purity shtick as an act which keeps the sheeple guzzling and the checks rolling. He and his ilk (left and right) decry the lack of civility while doing everything possible to keep the rhetoric at a boil. I have given up on the notion these leeches on the body politic can ever be scraped off - there are just too many morons (or dittoheads if you prefer) out there.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Eric
I wouldn't know, but when I saw your mom last night she said it was like "trying to swallow a tree."

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I'm paraphrasing of course, because there was a lot of gagging and gurgling involved. But I think I captured her sentiment.

[Eric Atkinson]

Mr Nice Guy...maybe if you were nice to Mr. Limbaugh he might let you fly on his new G550.

[Ayn_Randian]

you know, as someone who listens to him almost every day, I find that the only person more misrepresented and lied about in most circles than Rush Limbaugh is Ayn Rand.

[Eric Atkinson]

Well "My Mom" has been dead now for ten years. My you are kinky.,

[mattt]

Wow, even at Reason, an article about Limbaugh brings the Team Red/Team Blue cheerleaders out of the woodwork.

(no offense to the regular cheerleaders)

[Right Wing Shill]

If you don't realize Rush is way more libertarian than say, Kerry Howley, you aren't listening at all.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Eric
My dick is pretty magical. Once someone has had it they will do anything to get it again, including cheating death.

I'm sure it was her, she mentioned that she was "wearing the panties my dear son Eric Atkinson wears." I thought that was strange I must say.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

But Eric, my problem with Limbaugh is he has no principles, as pointed out by fluffy. He is a GOP hack.

[Ayn_Randian]

But Eric, my problem with Limbaugh is he has no principles, as pointed out by fluffy. He is a GOP hack.

Do you even listen to him? It's obvious and apparent that you do not and have chosen to latch on to a convenient caricature.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"If you don't realize Rush is way more libertarian than say, Kerry Howley, you aren't listening at all."

Sure Shill. Maybe you can provide some documentation about when he has stood up to GOP stalwarts but liberty hating nuts like Jerry Falwell, James Dobson or Pat Roberston, or any conservative religious nuttery. Go ahead. I'd like to hear it.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

A-R
I've listened to him and watched his terrible tv show (I didn't have cable back then and only had four channels, and it was either his fat, cowardly, unprincipled ass of Days of Our Lives).

You have really discredited Ayn Rand by your analogy. Jesus.

[Eric Atkinson]

Matt. I disagree with almost every thing Rush says about Science and Religion. But he is almost right on when talking about economics.

And he is funny and light hearted, and he really is the only "equal time" most of the unwashed can get.
I just hate seeing him trashed by the stupid.

[Eric Atkinson]

What the hell is magical about four inches?
Answere me that Mr. Nice Guy.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"I disagree with almost every thing Rush says about Science and Religion. But he is almost right on when talking about economics."

Lord, there is an endorsement. On two of the largest issue in life he is horribly wrong. He's only partially right on another issue.

I love the guy. Those who criticize the guy are bad.

Jesus, you need more friends buddy! Don't se the bar so low! Do you only have radio or something?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Eric, the word your mon used was "tree." What can I say? Maybe it was only incredibly large in relation to your dad's, but I was trying to be gentle. She mentioned how much he had let you down, why add to that?

[Eric Atkinson]

Yes I drive alot. Rush's show is entertaining.
But the way if my dead mother did talk. I am pertty sure she said "weed"..not tree.

[Ayn_Randian]

I've listened to him and watched his terrible tv show (I didn't have cable back then and only had four channels, and it was either his fat, cowardly, unprincipled ass of Days of Our Lives).

You have really discredited Ayn Rand by your analogy. Jesus.

Learn to read, you tiny-minded twit. It was a comparison of the level of "misunderstood-ness" to coin a term, nothing more nor less.

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother throwing pearls before swine.

Anyway...

I'm not even sure where the "science and religion" thing is coming from. I haven't heard him talk a lot about religion (I would bet 50 bucks that he's not even particularly religious...just look at the level of opulence in which he resides, for "Exhibit A"). If the science thing is in reference to AGW, well, I'm still skeptical, so feel free to call me ignorant, too, MNG.

[Eric Atkinson]

Ayn...ever heard rush go on about Evolution?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Well A-R you are ignorant on that! There is a massive consensus by PhD's across the fucking globe, not beholden to any common paymaster, and you are "skeptical."

Pray tell A-R, what other current scientific consensuses have you deduced are not worth buying? Elucidate us...

As I said A-R, if he has denounced nuts that are important to the GOP, like Falwell or Robertson, please supply us with the documentation. WTF? They are clearly nuts, why are you having trouble finding the documentation? Why?

Rand was a pedantic self-important blowhard. But she was a frigging college professor compared to some goofball like Limbaugh. If possessed by God Almighty Limbaugh could never write an excellent work like We the Living (he could probably write Anthem though, but my dog could too).

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"There's nothing good about drug use. We know it. It destroys individuals. It destroys families. Drug use destroys societies. Drug use, some might say, is destroying this country. And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs, using drugs, importing drugs. And the laws are good because we know what happens to people in societies and neighborhoods, which become consumed by them. And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up.

What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with drug use. Too many whites are getting away with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we're not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too.

--Rush Limbaugh TV show (10/5/95)"

C'mon Eric, defend it.

Defend it.

Or do you like the soft texture of his lil' dick in your mouth...

[Ayn_Randian]

There is a massive consensus by PhD's across the fucking globe, not beholden to any common paymaster, and you are "skeptical."

Oh, well, that settles fucking that, then, doesn't it? I suppose, too, that I should consider the political opinions of the so-called "massive consensus"? Perhaps I am supposed to like the cheeses and bourbons of which they partake?

WTF? They are clearly nuts, why are you having trouble finding the documentation? Why?

I bet I would have just as much trouble finding Chris Mathews or commentators on Air America or whomever hand-wringing over the various lefty nutcases, too. It's called picking a side, for good or for ill. I'm not a fan of his "side", but you don't shit where you eat. Hence why he's not stupid, despite your earlier mewling.

Rand was a pedantic self-important blowhard.

Hm. Couldn't have seen that one coming from a mile away. The thoughtless emotional lefty who basically makes the same "If a man has an empty bowl/stomach, can HE TRULY BE FREE???" argument ad infinitum doesn't like a passionate defender of the individualist. How original. What's your next trick?

[Ayn_Randian]

MNG - would you care to provide something a little more recent? Or do you want me to go back 13 fucking years and find out what you (no doubt, ignorantly) thought about things?

Regardless, if he's wrong on drugs, he's wrong on drugs. That doesn't make your 2nd-grade "He's a big fatty! And he's mean!" taunts any less insightful or any more mature (if there were any of those two attributes present in your writing in their nascence).

[Mr. Nice Guy]

A-R
Yeah, Chris Matthews has never been critical of any left wing politician. Are you that drunk or crazy?

So do you agree with Falwell, Robertson, Dobson, et al.? C'mon, where is the documentation of that fat fag Limbaugh disagreeing with them? None...Hmmm.

"The thoughtless emotional lefty who basically makes the same "If a man has an empty bowl/stomach, can HE TRULY BE FREE???" argument ad infinitum doesn't like a passionate defender of the individualist."

A-R, Shit, I don't need that ideology to think Rand was goofy. Her pompous style and terrible ear for dialogue would do that. And her insanely ideological drive...It ruined any chance she had of her stuff being "art."

[Eric Atkinson]

Well..Mr Cum breath...I think Rush's "drug problem" was more of a pain magagement problem.
If you don't believe that the try your own little experment. Play in traffic untill you get run over. If you live I am sure you will have your own little opioid problem.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

C'mon A-R, you like the guy, and you have the internet at your disposal, surely you should be able to come up with something where he denounced these, what would Goddess Rand call them, well "witch doctors." You can't you? Why?

Maybe he was a spineless faggot hack...

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"Well..Mr Cum breath...I think Rush's "drug problem" was more of a pain magagement problem."

HaHaHa. And everyone ELSE'S drug problem has nothing to do with emotional or physical problems they may have. It's just some Epicurean indulgence...

That poor, brave, Rush...No wonder you suck his dick. He really is amazing. I'm more of a pussy man myself, but hey, whatever floats your boat...

[Brandybuck]

Unless Satan is a Francophile, of course.

That would explain a LOT of things...

[Eric Atkinson]

More of a pussy. Yes, I see that.
You sure seem to talk about "dick" alot...must be weighing heavely on you mind.

[Ayn_Randian]

So do you agree with Falwell, Robertson, Dobson, et al.? C'mon, where is the documentation of that fat fag Limbaugh disagreeing with them? None...Hmmm.

Uhh...no I don't. And I don't see Limbaugh singing their praises, either. Or is he supposed to go out of his way to especially emphasize the people you don't like? What is this, "MNG's Special-Super-Secret Goal Post Moving Test"? The thrust of your argument was that he's an idiot and a hack. And I set you straight and you're too stupid to realize it.

Maybe he was a spineless faggot hack...

I smell a homophobe, a rube and a redneck in the house. Don't you have some kids to beat or some High Life to swill? Better go get those car parts offa that lawn...the sheriff done warned ya once...

And her insanely ideological drive...It ruined any chance she had of her stuff being "art."

Oh well, there you go. The person running around calling people "fat faggots" is most assuredly her target audience. My Galt, how will the dead ghost of Ayn Rand ever come to rest knowing that a scholar such as yourself doesn't approve of her work?

MNG, learn a lesson here: many times millionaires probably aren't stupid hacks; you sound like a fuckin' yokel and an ignorant cracker with all this "fag" stuff, calling people fat isn't productive, and no one cares what the hoi polloi's opinion of Rand is. Seriously, back to the great unwashed with you.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Hey Eric, you are the guy very upset over any slight to your fat-ass man.

I said "more of a pussy man." Meaning I like pussy.

Actually Rush seems to like pussy (sorry) given his marriage record. He's all talk about his positions, like O'Reilly.

[Eric Atkinson]

Thats what she said!!!

[Ayn_Randian]

MNG, I hope you come out of your cheap-gin induced stupidity parade tomorrow and realize what a child and an ass you have made of yourself in this thread.

The old maxim "Don't wrestle with a pig..." applies to you here. Your immaturity is making me feel...dirty. Perhaps you best get our your aggression on some "fat fags", eh wot?

[Randolph Carter]

I'm with Ayn Randian here - the dude is funny, he's cornered something of a niche market, and he's not the goatheaded demon that he's made out to be. Until he was the nominee, Limbaugh was also very critical of McCain, and has been for a long time.

As long as you listen and basically accept that he's a Republican hack, it's not all scary, and sometimes it's pretty entertaining.

[Cab]

I'm in the "Rush is not an idiot" camp. I listen to him regularly, he's no idiot. His opinion differs from mine on occasion, but unlike most, I don't assume that makes one an idiot. It just means they disagree.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

A-R: Pam Anderson has probably made more than Ayn: "many times millionaires probably aren't stupid hacks". Well, I guess you should read her stuff and love her. Or something.

"And I don't see Limbaugh singing their praises, either. Or is he supposed to go out of his way to especially emphasize the people you don't like?"

Uhh, he goes "out of his way" all the time to condemn anyone "in the news" that he "disapproves of." As I've said, unfortunately for you, I listen to his stupid show at times, so I know the drill. So these "witch doctors" are in the news all the time and YOU STILL CANNOT FIND A SINGLE TIME HE HAS DENOUNCED THEM. WTF?

Maybe he's a fat fag hack. Y'know.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"As long as you listen and basically accept that he's a Republican hack, it's not all scary, and sometimes it's pretty entertaining."

Well, yeah, he's a GOP hack, and a cowardly fat hypocrite partisan fuck, but that is what I've been saying. I find that much to be reason to dislike someone.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Look A-R, the guy's whole motif is "I'm reading the news today and this is what outrages me."

Well, the fundie nutjobs, whom Ayn would have called "witch doctors" were in the news quite a bit.

So, why did not this guy come up with any example you can provide that denounces them? And why does this not shake you a bit?

[Randolph Carter]

MNG - because to him, SAME TEAM. He's not going to insult one of the larger segments of his audience.

[Johnny Nowhere]

Ayn and Eric,

serious question from somebody who doesn't especially like or dislike the guy...

Rush, after the Nov. '06 elections, said, "I feel liberated. I no longer have to carry the water for people who don't deserve it."

how does this not reveal him to be a partisan hack?

[Rush Limbaugh]

Brilliant commentary MNG. I couldn't have done better myself.Insight and humor.

[Not my fight]

I find that much to be reason to dislike someone.

Seems you find lots of reasons to dislike people. You might want to work on that.

[Ayn_Randian]

you know, MNG, I'm just going to do your highlight reel here, because I'd rather mock you than engage with you on your "ideas", because it'd be akin to talking to a tree:

Here's what I know about Limbaugh. He's fat, he's a pussy, and he's stupid.

Eric, sorry but Rush Limbaugh is a fat man. If you don't realize that you should look up "fat" in the dictionary?Sorry to piss on your boyfriend and make you cry though. Man up bud, there are plenty of other dicks you can suck.

it was either his fat, cowardly, unprincipled ass of [sic] Days of Our Lives).

So do you agree with Falwell, Robertson, Dobson, et al.? C'mon, where is the documentation of that fat fag Limbaugh disagreeing with them? None...Hmmm.

Maybe he was a spineless faggot hack...

Maybe he's a fat fag hack

Are you proud of yourself, MNG? It's kind of like holding up a mirror to a rabid dog, innit?

[Ayn_Randian]

oh, and from the article:

Recently, I sent Limbaugh an e-mail message, his preferred means of long-distance communication, asking what his own presidential agenda would look like. His answer reflects his actual concerns. A Limbaugh administration would seek to:

1. Open the continental shelf to drilling. Ditto the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

2. Establish a 17 percent flat tax.

3. Privatize Social Security.

4. Give parents school vouchers to break the monopoly of public education.

5. Revoke Jimmy Carter's passport while he is out of the country.

6. Abandon all government policies based on the hoax of man-made global warming.

Not much there to disagree with from a libertarian perspective, is there? Yes, we can quibble over whether we should be more oriented towards a balanced budget instead of cutting taxes, and yes, we can talk about the denial of AGW...but I'd be hard-pressed not to vote for someone who ran on that platform.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

C'mon A-R, where are the documentations that would prove SOME principle in that fat fuck?

Let's see it.

You don't like how tough I am on him. He's a bit like that, eh? Boo-huh.

Hacks don't deserve respectful language.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

This is good. Why, in the libertarian name, should Jim Carter have his passport revoked?

[[e-mail]]

how does this not reveal him to be a partisan hack?
So he spouts what the neocons say.He, unlike the rest of the "drive by media," never claimed to be impartal. I bet the Repubicans get some of their talking points from Rush.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

As to the drilling thing.

The government owns that land.

In a fiduciary sense they should take care of it in the way best for those they hold it for (us).

I for one don't want them fucking up the environment there. They have a fiduciary duty to take care of it.

You want RENT-SEEKING!

[Not my fight]

Hacks don't deserve respectful language.

I agree.

(oh, and you're a hack, bitch)

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Yeah, I'm a hack because I don't like (who you admit is a) hack. Yeah.

Yeah, keep up that thinking. Go to sleep, your foreman will be mad at you if you don't think sharp 2morrow plebe.

[Les]

...but I'd be hard-pressed not to vote for someone who ran on that platform.

But what if they had a long history of dishonesty, hypocrisy, and racism? What if they had, time and again, demonstrated a greater love for the GOP than for the Constitution? What if their love of big government was only determined by who was running it?

In other words, why would you vote for such an obvious asshole?

[Ayn_Randian]

This is good. Why, in the libertarian name, should Jim Carter have his passport revoked?

MNG, it's a joke. Ha-ha. Lighten up, Francis.

But what if they had a long history of dishonesty, hypocrisy, and racism? What if they had, time and again, demonstrated a greater love for the GOP than for the Constitution? What if their love of big government was only determined by who was running it?

Rush is a racist? news to me!

Perhaps you should "See Above" (or, you know, actually listen to the man) to understand why you're so off-base on this.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Like I said Les, during the guy's tenure there were ample chances for him to denounce pro-GOP evangelicals. They were in the news that he red on his shows. But he did not...

He's a coward and opportunist (fill in any other epithets I have used in this post).

I'm still waiting for A-R to prove me, principally wrong. A-R? Hey?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

C'mon A-R, I've asked you multiple times: where is your libertarian hero Limbaugh's denouncement of Falwell or Robertson EVER.

And you still haven't provided one example.

For shame. Is it you or him that love those two?

[Ayn_Randian]

I'm still waiting for A-R to prove me, principally wrong. A-R? Hey?

Wrong about what? You called him an idiot; you are demonstrably wrong.

There. Consider yourself fulfilled.

[Ayn_Randian]

C'mon A-R, I've asked you multiple times: where is your libertarian hero Limbaugh's denouncement of Falwell or Robertson EVER.

And you still haven't provided one example.

He's not "my libertarian hero". Please, for the love of the children, learn to read.

I'm failing to see where defending Rush as a "non-idiot" mandates that I go looking for a quote that denounces the religious right.

Why is that the criteria again? There's a difference between "wrong" and "idiot".

You, however, are a great big ball of both, rolled into one!

[Not my fight]

Did I admit something?

You implying anyone else isn't sharp is rich, real rich.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

And what can we say of a person whose handle is Ayn Randian, but has such affection for a man who seems to have, in the last 15 years of reading the newspaper to his customers, no adverse mention of Falwell or Roberston?

[Ayn_Randian]

in the last 15 years of reading the newspaper to his customers, no adverse mention of Falwell or Roberston?

Oh noes! He failed to say something bad about someone! That must mean he endorses or approves of them!

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Rush reads the newspapers to his audience.

And A-R, in the last decade, and with the internet as his tool, cannot find ONE example of this hack opposing Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell (both of whom were in the NEWSPAPERS quite a bit in that period).

[Ayn_Randian]

And A-R, in the last decade, and with the internet as his tool, cannot find ONE example of this hack opposing Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell (both of whom were in the NEWSPAPERS quite a bit in that period).

You still have yet to inform me why this is in any relevant to whether than man is "an idiot".

MNG, you really are going to regret that highlight reel up there. It shows a very ugly side of you.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

If your job is to, non-stop, discuss politics recently, and you don't discuss the religious right in this nation, then that is a bit goofy, right? Cause they are kinda a big deal in most outlets...

[Mr. Nice Guy]

An "idiot" is someone who ignores things that, by his stated principle, he should object to.

SO: do you think Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are correct in the things they have said?

If NOT, then please provide ANY example of Limbaugh, whose job is to commentate on politics EVERY DAY coming down on their views.

C'mon A-R, you CAN DO IT!

[Ayn_Randian]

If your job is to, non-stop, discuss politics recently, and you don't discuss the religious right in this nation, then that is a bit goofy, right? Cause they are kinda a big deal in most outlets...

That. Still. Does. Not. Make. Him. An. Idiot.

This. Isn't. Hard.

[Not my fight]

This is almost surreal.

MNG starts out by talking about sticking his you-know- what in a dead mother's mouth, now he somehow equates not finding quotes against random people as absolute proof of idiocy. Jesus.

[Ayn_Randian]

MNG, you have so twisted this debate beyond relevance and intellectual stimulation that I don't see any need to waste my time on you any further.

Just for the record, I saved your homophobic and vitriolic highlight reel. I'll play it every once in awhile when I'm feeling particularly catty.

Just so you're aware of what's in store.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

C'mon A-R ONE EXAMPLE of intellectual integrity.

One.

C'mon.

One.

Wow. He really likes the witch doctors, doesn't he?.

[Les]

Rush is a racist? news to me!

Well, I'm glad we're at least in agreement on his dishonesty, hypocrisy, and love of big government in the hands of the GOP. Anyway, I don't think Rush is a racist (we're all racists, really, and it's not necessarily a bad thing). Rush is much more of a bigot.

But this is a guy who would play the "Movin' On Up" theme song from TV's "Jeffersons" whenever he mentioned Carol Moseley-Braun. He once told a black caller, "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back." He also said:

"Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

Honestly, I don't mind racial humor if it's funny. Bigots never seem to be able to tell funny racist jokes.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"now he somehow equates not finding quotes against random people as absolute proof of idiocy."

Yeah, not ONE comment on Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell in the past 15 years, for a person who comments daily on politics, is really strange...

Nice try A-R UNDER ANOTHER NAME....

[Not my fight]

MNG is NOT an idiot.

If he were an idiot, you would be able to find quotes of him talking about dead mothers gagging on his d*ck.

Oh....you actually can find a quote like that?

I stand corrected.

[Not my fight]

A) I'm not A-R

B) You owe Eric a public apology

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Good for you NMF.

Now, address my argument. It has both empirical and conceptual issues. Do you know what that means?

Jesus, now I've hurt your brain. Sorry, when you're doing whatever grunt work you have to do 2morrow, I'm sure you'll INNOVATE ;).

[Ayn_Randian]

Wow. He really likes the witch doctors, doesn't he?.

I don't know. He hasn't said. Which you take as proof that he does. Which just shows how special you are.

[Not my fight]

Again, you talking about conceptual arguments is rich given this thread.

You still owe Eric an apology.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"B) You owe Eric a public apology"

NMF, I realize that you don't like people who threaten you. Small penis people usually feel that way.

I also realize that you are not used to "liberals" playing tough. We are "supposed" to be granola crunching, immigrant loving, criminal-excusing, tax-hiking beasts.

Fuck you. Limbaugh is a pussy coward, and if you love him, you might be too..

[Ayn_Randian]

you're not being "tough", MNG. You're being a coarse, small-minded Neanderthal. Calling people "fags" and talking about orally copulating a dead person isn't playing tough; it's playing junior high.

[Not my fight]

I'm a "liberal," so I'm used to them playing tough. I'm just not used to them playing like a fool.

You owe Eric an apology. Give it to him.

[Fluffy]

A-R,

Sorry, dude. I generally respect what you write here quite a bit, but your credibility just dropped quite a bit.

I used to like Rush, and used to defend him. I would listen to his radio show, and watched his TV show back in the day. I also listened to Jay Severin's radio show. [Another guy who employs libertarian-sounding rhetoric when it suits him.]

I have turned against Rush because the W years have proven - absolutely proven - that's he's a full of shit fucking liar. Period.

He picked up some small-government rhetoric somewhere along the line and started his shtick of using that rhetoric to attack liberal public figures and Democrats and to support Republicans. But the W years have proven that his shtick is a fucking con and he's full of shit.

It doesn't matter what nice little email he sent you. He's a fucking con man.

By any reasonable small government measure, W has been about 100,000 times worse than Bill Clinton. But according to Rush, Bill Clinton was the worst kind of collectivist liberal imaginable and Rush led a talk radio crusade against the man for EIGHT YEARS. That means that he should be leading a talk radio crusade AGAINST THAT PIECE OF SHIT W that is approximately 100,000 times more intense than the one he led against Bill Clinton.

So where the fuck is it? Huh? Did I miss it? Did he fit it all in one afternoon and I didn't hear about it?

Read what Rand had to say about Nixon, and try to scale that up to the incandescent level of rage she would have if she lived to see W's Presidency. And then keep in mind that Rush himself admits that he carried water for W for years. YEARS.

It makes me sick to hear Rush speak now [or that snake Severin, on his smaller scale]. Because he doesn't deserve to say the things that he says. "He's right on economics". He doesn't deserve to be right on economics. When you carry water for W, you don't get to accuse anyone else of being for big government. When you carry water for W, you don't deserve to talk about anyone else's collectivism. You've lost the right. Rush has lost his small-government-rhetoric privileges.

Face it. Rush is the best example around today of the way the GOP lies to, tricks, and then betrays people who believe in limited government. If you're defending him in this thread, it's because you're still letting him fucking play you and con you the way I let him con me at one time. He's full of shit and anything "good" you hear him say is just something he has learned to parrot so that guys like you will be tricked and will fall in line behind his corrupt and despicable party.

[Not my fight]

Here, MNG, I'll start it for you...

"Eric, we both know that things can kinda start out as a joke then get a little heate. However, once I was informed of your mother's passing, rather than continue down the same line of jokes I should have backed off. Instead of backing off, I panicked and got even more coarse. That was wrong, and I apologize for it. I still disagree with your opinion, yet I shouldn't have gone down that road."

If you are man enough, you can finish the rest .

[GG]

His salon, he told me, is meant to suggest Versailles. His main guest suite, which I did not personally inspect, was designed as an exact replica of the presidential suite of the George V Hotel in Paris.

No pics? Too bad.

You can take a gander at the interior of William F. Buckley's house, which is now on the market.

[Not my fight]

You've had time. You're a piece.

[Mo]

Just because a guy has made millions doesn't make him brilliant. Is Sean Penn a genius? Shaquille O'Neil?

Actually, what turned me off to Rush was his idiotic comment that the media wanted McNabb to be good and that he was overrated because he was black. That statement proved that he is an idiot.

[Eric Atkinson]

Rush said that McNabb is over rated and the MSN wanted to him to be great because he is black.
Pay attention next time Mo.

[Mo]

WTF? You just flipped the order of the the "overrated" and "wanted McNabb to be good" and said great instead of good. How was I wrong? Fail reading comprehension Eric? I guess I shouldn't expect much from a dittohead.

I watched on TV live and it was a mystifyingly dumb comment. The fact that McNabb took those Eagles teams, with those receivers and backs to the NFC Championship 3 times was amazing.

[Santiago]

Megadittos, Fluffy.

Same goes for Neal Boortz. He used to be a something of a Libertarian, but then he enlisted in the War on Terr', and likes to order his constitutional amendments a la carte.

[Mo]

Same goes for Neal Boortz. He used to be a something of a Libertarian, but then he enlisted in the War on Terr', and likes to order his constitutional amendments a la carte.

I've noticed a pattern. Conservatives are all for small government until they gain control of it. At that point the Bill of Rights becomes the Bill of Suggestions. At least, liberals are honest about wanting big government. Liberals tend to lie about protecting civil rights though. They're for them when they're out of power and against them when they're in power.

[SIV]

As a Right Wing Reactionary Warmonger I tend to agree with Neal Boortz (and Glenn Reynolds) on "the War on Terror", but Neal loses me completely on that stupid %30 V.A.T. tax.

[Miquelondotorg]

Rush - a Francophile? What a hypocritical gas bag. He wants to gloss over his anti-French hatred of yesteryear. Nice try, but we haven't forgotten the "John Kerry Looks French" diatribes of 2004.

Miquelon.org

[Douglas Fletcher]

Well, that was very insightful. Good to see we're all above puerile personal attacks these days.

[kwais]

Well I do like Rush, and I listen to him whenever I can.

I disagree with much of what he says. And sometimes I can?t listen to the guy. (such as during the time that they wanted to unplug that vegetable chick).

But other times Rush is BRILLIANT.

I know you hate him MNG, you are a socialist. You have to hate the guy. But he is the one that gave many of us the libertarian seeds that grew.

He might be fat. He might be on drugs. He might or might not be a coward.

But he is brilliant and he can be entertaining, so why should I really care about the rest? I don?t want to adopt him, or idolize him, I just want to be entertained by him.

When the man is good, he has NO competition in any media really.

I know it sucks for you that such a brilliant entertainer is not a socialist hypocrite.

OK I am done, now make some penis jokes, about moms, and gays and stuff.

[Minion of URKOBOLD]

Douglas Fletcher | July 3, 2008, 6:08am | #
Well, that was very insightful. Good to see we're all above puerile personal attacks these days.

I'M NOT.

Whoever that guy was who said that thing about the stuff up there. That was the troglodytic sack of weasel dung comment of the day. HOW COULD SOMEONE SAY THAT WHEN CLEARLY THE CONSENSUS OF THE SKEPTIC PHD COMMUNITY WORLDWIDE MAJORITY SAID THAT OTHER THING???

Mein gott.

That is a heapin honkin bukkit of rancid Spongebob spunk.

[ups the voltage]

ahhh. much better. Oh, hay hai, gaiz. what's the happy-happs?

[Jim Bob]

He's fat, he's a pussy, and he's stupid.

Michael Moore?

[Fluffy]

But he is brilliant and he can be entertaining, so why should I really care about the rest?

Um, maybe because - whether he "planted his libertarian seed in you" [ick] or not - his show and his movement exist to piss on virtually every libertarian concern by serving the modern GOP. That's why.

Rush gets up every morning and says to himself, "How can I support Bush's GOP today? What can I do? What should I say on my show?" Other than collecting his paycheck that's his reason for existing.

So unless you think W has been a great libertarian President, you should care about Rush's gigantic scam.

I don't care how many drugs he takes [the hypocrisy annoys me, true] and I don't care if he is fat or was fat and I don't care if Al Franken likes him or not. What I care about is that there is no libertarian issue - economic, social, whatever - that Rush wouldn't turn against in a second, no matter how many times he has sung its praises or used it as a weapon against Democrats, if W or the GOP needed him to. He'd turn against everything he has ever said in a heartbeat. Maybe less.

[Gilbert Martin]

"Sorry, but Rush Limbaugh is an IDIOT. There is just no better word to describe him."

He just signed a new $400 million contract with Clearchannel.

Get back to me when you manage to get that smart.

[kwais]

BTW Rush has criticized big name republicans.

He has led a Reasonesque campaign against McCain. What he has said against McCain is a big part of why I won?t vote for him, and would rather hand over the reigns of the presidency to Obama.

He has endlessly critiqued Buchanan on his lac of knowlege about the free market.

He has critiqued GW also quite a bit. He has said though, and is probably right, that GW is probably better than both McCain and Obama.

I don?t know if he has criticized Pat Robertson or MNG?s axis of evil. I imagine that to the point that their opinions on economics are unlibertarian, and to the point that they are relevant, he probably has.

[Gilbert Martin]

"Rush gets up every morning and says to himself, "How can I support Bush's GOP today?"

Uh Huh.

I guess I didn't actually hear all that criticism he had for Bush's illegal alien amnesty program or his criticism of Bush creating the prescription drug program.

[J]

Guys, keep in mind, money = intelligence. Always, and in a 1:1 ratio.

That's all I have to add since I've never listened to him and the rest of this thread is just ridiculous.

[TallDave]

Heh, looks like Rush still makes lefties mad.

I'm not sure people realize he's more of an entertainer than anything. Even so, he's certainly no less principled as the MSM with its Dan Rathers and Ted Turners.

[Douglas Fletcher]

"John Kerry Looks French"

Actually he looks like more of a Hapsburg type, whatever that is.

[TallDave]

Gilbert,

That's the typical criticism you get from people who have never actually listened.

He just signed a new $400 million contract with Clearchannel.

And $100 million for a signing bonus! Granted, he's probably front-loading because of the massive tax hikes Obama is promising, but his success is just incredible.

[Fluffy]

I guess I didn't actually hear all that criticism he had for Bush's illegal alien amnesty program or his criticism of Bush creating the prescription drug program.

I'm really not impressed by the talk radio "revolt" on the illegal alien issue. If Rush's big moment of standing up to Bush was when he got angry that W didn't hate Mexicans enough, sorry but it's just not enough.

And as for the prescription drug benefit, again - if Bill Clinton had:

1. ushered in a huge new Medicare entitlement
2. passed a bill that involved the Department of Education in the operation of every local school everywhere in the country
3. signed into law legislation that looked anything like McCain-Feingold
4. presided over the largest increase in government spending since LBJ
5. run up deficits of trillions
6. dramatically increased the total amount of federal regulation
7. wiretapped American citizens

etc etc etc - Rush would probably have ended up in jail after he completely lost it and started advocating armed insurrection on the air every day.

If you changed the R after Bush's name to any other letter, Rush would have turned his show into nothing but a relentless attack on W, every day, day after day, for the length of the entire show, for years. He would have had an entire series of abusive nicknames for Bush, he would have given airtime to each and every conspiracy theory about Bush he could dig up, he would have had jingles and songs about how despicable Bush was, he would have given him the full Clinton treatment.

If you think the fact that Rush took a week or two to complain that Bush doesn't hate Mexicans enough balances out those scales, you are really, really forgiving of hypocrisy and double standards.

[TallDave]

So unless you think W has been a great libertarian President

On tax policy, free trade, guns, protecting our liberties from terrorists, and securing basic rights for 50 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan, he's been a great boon for libertarian ideals. On Medicare, the war on drugs, and civil liberties for suspected terrorists, he's been terrible.

[Fluffy]

That's the typical criticism you get from people who have never actually listened.

Please direct me to the musical equivalent, for the GOP or W, of "Barack the Magic Negro". Where is it?

Please direct me to an archive of the series of shows where Rush gave airtime to the Bush or GOP equivalent of the Vince Foster conspiracy theories, or the Mena conspiracy theories.

Please direct me to an archive of the series of shows where Rush advocated W's impeachment.

Please direct me to an archive of the decade of shows where Rush critiqued the GOP's big government collectivist policies, with something resembling the intensity and ferocity he employs to critique the Democrat party's big government collectivist policies.

Since you're such an expert on Rush's content and I'm just so wrong about poor Rush, it should be easy for you to do that. Right?

[TallDave]

5. run up deficits of trillions

LMAO which year had a trillion-dollar deficit?

Deficits under Bush are fairly typical as a % of GDP.

[James Ard]

The Obama phenomenom proves Rush was right about the media and McNabb. One of my favorite C-span calls was when I told Al Franken that Rush earned 20 million last year how many million did you make?. 38 million a year now and probably underpaid. Operation chaos alone was worth 50 million in my mind.

[TallDave]

zomg Fluffy has discovered that Rush is more sympathetic to the right.

[TallDave]

Please direct me to an archive of the decade of shows where Rush critiqued the GOP's big government collectivist policies,

Heck, even in the hour or two I've heard in the last year I've caught that. He's more than happy to take it to GOPers that go left.

[Fluffy]

On tax policy,

He has increased the total tax burden, and not decreased it. The tax cuts he funded with deficit spending have to be paid for some day. I look at the fully financed cost of Bush's deficits and I apply that to our future tax burden. There's really no other way to look at it.

free trade,

Being good on free trade didn't induce Rush to cut Clinton any slack. So relative to W this is a wash. Frankly, I'm being charitable calling it a wash because while W has rhetorically advocated free trade, his record of actually shepherding free trade agreements through the Congress is pretty shitty.

guns,

W has been good on guns.

protecting our liberties from terrorists, and civil liberties for suspected terrorists,

These two cancel each other out. Actually, W is in the hole, because terrorists don't threaten my liberties at all. My liberties are not threatened by any external action that stops short of eliminating the US as a political entity.

and securing basic rights for 50 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan, he's been a great boon for libertarian ideals.

If you spend a couple of trillion dollars, lose the lives of thousands of American soldiers, erode the rights of Americans, despoil the honor of the United States, and discredit our ideals in the eyes of the world, you have to do better than hold a couple of sullen populations under technical democracy. A lot better.

By the way, if you belong to a political party that isn't part of the ruling coalition in Iraq and you own a gun, the Iraqi Prime Minister feels entitled to kill you on sight. That kind of undermines the "good on guns" part, doesn't it?

On Medicare, the war on drugs, [snip] he's been terrible. And on spending, and on education, and on free speech, and on the separation of church and state, and on government accountability, and on the rule of law, and on the separation of the functions of government agencies from political campaigning.

[TallDave]

He has increased the total tax burden, and not decreased it.

Bullhooey. He cut taxes. Deficits are financed below inflation so they actually save us tax dollars.

These two cancel each other out.

I think 3,000 people at the WTC and Pentagon might disagree.

hold a couple of sullen populations under technical democracy.

Are we talking about Japan and Germany now? After all, they're occupied countries that didn't even write their own constititions like Iraq.

By the way, if you belong to a political party that isn't part of the ruling coalition in Iraq and you own a gun, the Iraqi Prime Minister feels entitled to kill you on sight.

That's possible the stupidest thing anyone has ever written about Iraq. All Iraqis are allowed to own guns, and you need warrants to arrest anyone.

[Fluffy]

LMAO which year had a trillion-dollar deficit?

W has not been President for a single year.

His deficits run into the trillions in the aggregate.

Brutally so, if you include all the spending Bush refuses to actually count in the budget. Because if we don't count it, it didn't happen, or something.

zomg Fluffy has discovered that Rush is more sympathetic to the right.

No, I've discovered that Rush is sympathetic to the GOP, and any time he employs libertarian rhetoric, it's merely because he sees it as advantageous to the GOP.

There are people in this thread trying to tell me that Rush is a great libertarian and he's just misunderstood and I just hate him because he's been tricked. Since that's the topic under discussion, if I "discover" that Rush pretends to be a libertarian, or have libertarian "roots" or "seeds", when it's useful for attacking a Democrat president, but then forgets all about any of that when a Republican president is in the White House, that pretty much proves that the people telling me Rush is just misunderstood are wrong.

I have no doubt that you think it's good that Rush acts in this hypocritical and dissembling manner, because what's important to you is that the GOP remain in power instead of Democrats, because in some marginal way you think the GOP is still "better" than the Democrats. But if that's what Rush is doing then my critique of Rush is correct.

[Fluffy]

That should read, "...because I've been tricked." Sorry.

[TallDave]

No, I've discovered that Rush is sympathetic to the GOP,

Again, clearly you don't ever listen. He criticizes Republicans for insufficient conservatism pretty often.

[Citizen Nothing]

This thread proves Limbaugh is a genius in his chosen field. An evil genius? Mais, oui. But still a genius.

[Mojotron]

I think 3,000 people at the WTC and Pentagon might disagree.
...about Bush protecting their liberties, right? Cus he pretty much dropped the ball on THAT one.

[TallDave]

His deficits run into the trillions in the aggregate.

Yes, the total runs into the trillions -- which again is pretty typical as a % of GDP, and actually very good considering we're at war in two countries.

[Mark Borok]

One of my favorite C-span calls was when I told Al Franken that Rush earned 20 million last year how many million did you make?

I would guess more than you, but that was a great riposte if Franken was accusing Limbaugh of not making lots of money.

Limbaugh pretty much copped to "carrying water" for Republicans even when he didn't agree with what they were doing. I think it's pretty hard to defend him against charges of being a Republican shill without also calling him a liar.

[TallDave]

Cus he pretty much dropped the ball on THAT one.

He at least responded with a plan that actually accomplished something, unlike his predecessor.

[Fluffy]

Deficits are financed below inflation so they actually save us tax dollars.

Treasury bills and bonds are sold at auction to primary dealers and indirect bidders. Those bidders factor in future inflation in the prices they are willing to pay for US instruments.

No one is out there buying Treasury instruments at what they perceive will be net real losses.

If anything, movements in the Treasury markets are one of the best proxies for perceived future inflation that we've got.

In addition, the Treasury department does periodic re-fundings rather than pay debt off, so you can't even just calculate the cost of deficit financing using the initial instrument used to fund it. You have to try to guess how many times the Treasury department will roll that debt over.

All Iraqis are allowed to own guns, and you need warrants to arrest anyone.

Give me a break. The Prime Minister personally led a Basra operation where anyone who was armed who wasn't in the security forces or in the Badr militia was shot at. The primary focus of the campaign against al-Sadr is one aimed at disarming his supporters, whether they're engaged in active resistance to the security forces or not.

[Gilbert Martin]

"I'm really not impressed by the talk radio "revolt" on the illegal alien issue. If Rush's big moment of standing up to Bush was when he got angry that W didn't hate Mexicans enough, sorry but it's just not enough."

I really don't care what impresses you or what you think is "enough".

I get it that you rabidly hate Rush and Bush but you were just plain incorrect in your claim that Rush slavishly shills for whatever the GOP wants every day.

[Breeboo]

Fluffy, your statements on Rush's position are very much misinformed.

Look, it's totally cool if you hate someone for any reason. Actually, you don't even need a reason. But... if you do give a reason, at least make it accurate. Rush has been one of the most vocal criticizers of Bush over his "Drunken Sailor" style of Big Government spending. I'm sure you probably don't listen to his show very often, so there's really no way for you to know about that. That's no big deal... "listening to Rush" is not a requirement anywhere. But, if you don't know something, don't give it as a basis for an opinion.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I do want to apologize for using the term "fag" on this thread last nite. Where I grew up it was a general term of derision used interchangeably with "pussy" and when I and most people used it there was no real linkage to gay people (whose rights I've defended time and time again on this thread), but I realize that the term certainly has an ugly history and connotation and it was stupid and wrong of me to use it. And I was over the top in attacking some folks last night, for that I also apologize.

I have a sister serving a four year prison term for what Rush Limbaugh was doing (while he was advocating for people like him and my sister to be sent "down the river"). I think he's an amazingly intellectually dishonest person and a boil on the butt (like the one that got him out of military service) of the political discourse in this nation. Nothing gets me madder than that people still like this complete phoney. But that's no excuse. Sorry.

[Fluffy]

Fluffy, your statements on Rush's position are very much misinformed.

So it's your position that Rush doesn't support the GOP?

Seriously. That's seriously what you're trying to tell me here.

Whatever.

[TallDave]

Treasury bills and bonds are sold at auction to primary dealers and indirect bidders. Those bidders factor in future inflation in the prices they are willing to pay for US instruments.

They also factor in risk. Guess which government is the most powerful on Earth and is the best risk to repay its debt?

This is trivially easy to prove. Look up the short-term bond yields at time of purchase and compare that to the inflation over the next few years.

Now, long-term notes will be slightly higher than inflation, but it's still pretty close to free money, and money has a time value.

Of course, you can always have too much of a good thing, which is why it's important deficits remain a reasonable % of GDP. Bush pledged to cut it in half and it appears he will.

[Mojotron]

He at least responded with a plan that actually accomplished something, unlike his predecessor.

My point was that he did jack shit for protecting the liberties of the 3,000 who are dead. To say that if they were alive today they'd support Bush's gutting of the Constitution because at least it's "something" is laughable.

[TallDave]

Give me a break. The Prime Minister personally led a Basra operation where anyone who was armed who wasn't in the security forces or in the Badr militia was shot at.

Again, that's ridiculous. Their reception was quite warm. Even the NYT was running "Dark Ages Ending In Basta" stories during that operation.

The primary focus of the campaign against al-Sadr is one aimed at disarming his supporters, whether they're engaged in active resistance to the security forces or not

If you believe people like Juan Cole, maybe. The fact is many Sadrists have been engaged in extortion, kidnapping, murder and attacks on ISF/coalition and everywhere Maliki sends ISF to arrest them (with warrants!) the locals rejoice and pretty much only the Sadrists complain.

[TallDave]

To say that if they were alive today they'd support Bush's gutting of the Constitution because at least it's "something" is laughable.

Sure, except that "gutting the Constititution" by arresting Mohammad Atta and holding him without trial would have saved them.

[TallDave]

Which is why those things don't "cancel out" as was my orignal point.

[Fluffy]

Look up the short-term bond yields at time of purchase and compare that to the inflation over the next few years.

You can't compare those two things. You can only compare the yields to the rate of inflation over the time frame of the instrument.

Now, long-term notes will be slightly higher than inflation

You're closer to comparing the right two things here.

What you really have to do is calculate the annualized interest rate based on all interest payments made over the life of the debt [since the debt may pass through several instruments as it is rolled over], add in any interest paid on interest, and then compare that to the average rate of inflation over the life of the debt.

The effective interest rate won't be less than the inflation rate. The only way it could be is if, over time, the markets are bad predictors of inflation generally, and bond investors routinely have allowed themselves to realize net negative real returns for decades. That would be a hell of a market failure.

[Mo]

Bullhooey. He cut taxes. Deficits are financed below inflation so they actually save us tax dollars.

That's easily the most idiotic thing I've read in this thread. Bonds are never traded below inflation. A 20 year bond has a yield of 4.57%, the 20 year TIPS yield is 2.05%. That means that over the next 20 years, inflation is expected to average 2.52%.

[kwais]

And as for the prescription drug benefit, again - if Bill Clinton had:

1. ushered in a huge new Medicare entitlement
2. passed a bill that involved the Department of Education in the operation of every local school everywhere in the country
3. signed into law legislation that looked anything like McCain-Feingold
4. presided over the largest increase in government spending since LBJ
5. run up deficits of trillions
6. dramatically increased the total amount of federal regulation
7. wiretapped American citizens

etc etc etc - Rush would probably have ended up in jail after he completely lost it and started advocating armed insurrection on the air every day.

Except for 7 Rush has railed against all those you mentioned.

7 was never really his thing (specially when allegedly against enemy foreigners).

So Fluffy, your perspective is off.

[Mo]

They also factor in risk. Guess which government is the most powerful on Earth and is the best risk to repay its debt?

That's why the real interest rate is low, but it's still not negative. You're not exactly Soros (who according the the Rushbots is hundreds of times smarter than Rush because of how rich he is).

Oh and if we're so loved in Iraq, why do our executive branch have to sneak into Iraq under a cover of night and Ahmendjad cruises in at high noon to cheers?

[Mo]

Even Rush contradicts those that say he didn't carry water for the administrations failings. If he hadn't why would he have apologized in 2006 about it. At that point he could rail against the leadership because the ship was sinking. He's a rat feeding on GOP scraps, when the ship sinks, he's the first off the boat. How honorable and principled.

[onlyalad]

Rush Limbaugh is not a libertarian. He has never (to my knowledge) claimed to be one. So criticizing him for not being one on his show seems a little crazy.

Rush believes that of the two parties, the Republicans are more often than not aligned with his opinions, so all things being equal he'll support Republicans over Democrats every time.

He has loudly and vehemently criticized Republicans on several issues. He has loudly and vehemently praised Democrats when they have agreed with him.

Whatever you think about his political philosophy, his success is certainly a ringing endorsement of the free market.

[onlyalad]

BTW,

Considering the support I've seen in this forum for Obama among so-called libertarians, hypocrisy ain't in it.

[kwais]

BTW,

I don?t think rich equals smart.

I don?t think he is a great Libertarian, though he does have some strong libertarian tendencies in certain areas, and he does a good job of educating some conservatives in that respect.

He is brilliant in his medium. MNG can call him and idiot. And in some ways perhaps he is, who isn?t in some respect.

But in his medium, he IS BRILLIANT. Far and above all of his competitors.

And totally apart from that some of his shows are brilliant.

I disagree with Jon Stewart, and Steve Colbert, because they are socialists. And sometimes I seriously dislike them.

But I recognize their sometimes brilliance.

Rush outshines both of them. If you can?t see that, then you are blinded by your partisan hatred.

[Mo]

I disagree kwais. Colbert and Stewart are at their best when their humor is non-political or parodies for certain characters. When Jon Stewart goes on his political rants, he's not funny. I thought he was at his best presidential coverage when they interviewed the kooky presidential candidates. Colbert is brilliant as a parodist.

Rush is like Stewart's political rants all the time. Plus, the bigotry is a big turn off for me.

[Fluffy]

I don't dispute for a second that Rush is smart, and talented, and funny.

I just don't think he's honest, and I think his claim to support limited government is a sham and a shtick.

But I would never say that he wasn't smart.

Claims of the sort made by kwais and onlyalad that Rush "criticizes both sides" are just comical to me. You may be able to point to limited instances where he has spoken against some particular act by a Republican. But the bottom line is quite simple, and I'll recapitulate my primary point to make it plain: if Rush is telling the truth when he says that he is a limited-government conservative, then Rush should hate politicians to the extent and degree that they pursue policies that are not limited-government conservative policies. And if he did that, he would hate W more than he hated Bill Clinton. And he does not.

To prove my counterclaim wrong, you would have to prove to me either that W's administration was better on small government issues than Clinton's [good luck] or that Rush attacks W more than he used to attack Bill Clinton [double good luck].

[will]

What a waste. "I'm a defender of coporate America" Make me gag with a spoon.