Not In His Backyard!
Texans preparing to see their homes bulldozed would like to know why DHS is skipping some choice properties as it lays down the border wall:
As the U.S. Department of Homeland Security marches down the Texas border serving condemnation lawsuits to frightened landowners, Brownsville resident Eloisa Tamez, 72, has one simple question. She would like to know why her land is being targeted for destruction by a border wall, while a nearby golf course and resort remain untouched.
Tamez, a nursing director at the University of Texas at Brownsville, is one of the last of the Spanish land grant heirs in Cameron County. Her ancestors once owned 12,000 acres. In the 1930s, the federal government took more than half of her inherited land, without paying a cent, to build flood levees.
Now Homeland Security wants to put an 18-foot steel and concrete wall through what remains.
Just 69 miles north, Daniel Garza, 76, faces a similar situation with a neighbor who has political connections that reach the White House. In the small town of Granjeno, population 313, Garza points to a field across the street where a segment of the proposed 18-foot high border wall would abruptly end after passing through his brick home and a small, yellow house he gave his son. "All that land over there is owned by the Hunts," he says, waving a hand toward the horizon. "The wall doesn't go there."
"I don't see why they have to destroy my home, my land, and let the wall end there." He points across the street to Hunt's land. "How will that stop illegal immigration?"
The Observer was unable to get any answers as to why some properties were being passed over, and it seems premature to conclude much of anything about the process. But Garza's question applies to the entire project: The wall will cover 370 miles of a 1951 mile border. That's not much "border security," but it's a lot of condemned property.
Whole thing here.
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She would like to know why her land is being targeted for destruction by a border wall, while a nearby golf course and resort remain untouched.
Is it really so hard to figure out?
The wall would make the 9 hole a par 45?
One of the big problems with this wall, not discussed enough, it the disruption of access to food/water/habitat for wild life that don't recognize the border.
One of the big problems with this wall, not discussed enough, it the disruption of access to food/water/habitat for wild life that don't recognize the border.
True enough, but perhaps the reason this doesn't come up all that often is that the people who would be swayed by it already don't like the wall for other reasons, and it is unlikely to appeal to those that do.
She would like to know why her land is being targeted for destruction by a border wall, while a nearby golf course and resort remain untouched.
Perhaps they have a very capable greenskeeper...
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down the wall....oh wait.
Since the wall is protecting Americans from illegal immigration, who is supposed to protect the Americans from the Wall?
Well if the more valuable property of the politically well connected is taken, that would also mean that the fence would wind up costing all U.S. taxpayes a lot more money in the form of compensation to the property owner for condemnation.
Presumably someone very powerful would like to see the golf course overrun with illegal immigrants.
Nick,
Since the wall is protecting Americans from illegal immigration, who is supposed to protect the Americans from the Wall?
Im sure I could find some Mexicans willing to do it cheap. Just dont ask for paperwork.
Well if the more valuable property of the politically well connected is taken, that would also mean that the fence would wind up costing all U.S. taxpayes a lot more money in the form of compensation to the property owner for condemnation.
Anyone want to guess whether the cost of property compensation was figured into the total cost of the project, when proposed to Congress?
One of the big problems with this wall, not discussed enough, it the disruption of access to food/water/habitat for wild life that don't recognize the border.
Speak for yourself. I shouldn't have to compete for food with those lazy Mexican animals.
Pissed Off American Wildlife...
Who said the good was on the American side?
good = food
As my first act as President, I am directing the various departments to stop sending welfare payments to EVERYONE, thus ending the welfare state. My second act will be directing the various departments' now-less-busy bureaucrats to the border to tear down the wall.
Everybody wins!
NM, both words work just fine there.
Presumably someone very powerful would like to see the golf course overrun with illegal immigrants.
We prefer to call them, "groundskeepers."
Land acquisition costs are usually included in the estimate for any engineering and construction project and as far as I know it is required on all public projects.
And while all costs tend to overrun as the project proceeds land acquisition is frequently the one that inflates the most, especially on public projects where eminent domain comes into play.
Estimating legal costs and predicting the whims of judges and juries in handing out settlements in condemnation cases is a tough game.
Who said the good was on the American side?
Dude, if you have to ask, you can't understand the answer.
Alan,
You may know this, but
The original text of the Second Amendment was:
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country; but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person.
This clause is clearer, and seems on its face to be primarily about two things 1) the right to defend the country by forming a militia and 2) the right of individuals to be free from compulsory service.
Do we look to this clause for the "original intent" of the 2nd?
No.
But it, imho, identifies the source of the collective rights interpretation...the fact that the 2nd was introduced as a collective right. Then, through group editing during debate the text turned into something less clear. Arguments ensued.
States, fortunately, are typically much clearer on the language they use to protect your right to own a gun for individual protection.
The beauty of a federation.
oops, wrong thread.
All we need to do is outfit illegal immigrants with blinders, so that when they see the wall across Tamez's former property they won't be able to look to their left or their right and notice the unwalled golf course. Dejected, they will turn around and trudge back to their simple villages, where they'll enjoy a nice refreshing siesta.
This would be specatcularly obvious if y'all would learn to THINK OUTSIDE THE FUCKING BOX once in awhile.
Unless we're talking about armed landowners preventing the bulldozers from coming on their property.
"Wrong thread" reference, above.
DUH!!
*Mexicans dont play GOLF!!!*
Im dissapointed with the woman's dark sarcasm in the... uhm... well, all in all it's just a... another step forward for America.
Also, how can she have any pudding if she doesnt eat her meat?
Seriously though. When this is all over I think everyone is going to go back and look at my proposal for "Invisible electric fence+hooking shocking dog-collars on mexican babies at birth", and say to themselves, the answer was right in front of us all along
Also, how can she have any pudding if she doesnt eat her meat?
I've got some meat she can eat RIGHT HERE (grabs crotch).
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down the wall....oh wait.
Close, except THAT wall was to keep people IN.
Gilbert Martin is right. Fiscal responsibility would dictate that only the poor should be screwed over by having their property taken, because it's cheaper to compensate them. That, and they can't afford lawyers, so we might not even have to compensate them at all!
And if they don't like losing their houses, they can at least look on the bright side of the wall: By limiting the free flow of labor they're benefiting from less competition for jobs. So their wages will go up. Econ 101.
And by saving money on compensation, we're keeping their taxes low.
Poor people just don't appreciate the great economic good that comes from confiscating private property for the purpose of restricting the flow of labor.
THAT wall was to keep people IN.
Stay tuned.
She would like to know why her land is being targeted for destruction by a border wall, while a nearby golf course and resort remain untouched.
She knows why. We all know why. Mr Gorbachev Bush, tear down this wall!
Why don't we just have somebody throw buckets of $100s into the ocean. Y'know, cut out the middleman.
Imagine if the Soviets had built a wall that covered only a third of the Berlin border.
One of the big problems with this wall, not discussed enough, it the disruption of access to food/water/habitat for wild life that don't recognize the border.
Speaking of Organ Pipe Nat'l Monument and the environment.....
Just sayin'
Yes, I know why the drug smugglers and illegals trample the park. Just pointing out that the wall issue is complex.
DUH!!
*Mexicans dont play GOLF!!!*
Let's make it interesting, $100 per hole, gringo?
J sub D | February 20, 2008, 12:32pm | #
Why don't we just have somebody throw buckets of $100s into the ocean. Y'know, cut out the middleman.
Whoa, slow down there Mr "Out-of-the-Box-Thinker"
I know that may seem *logical*, but you see, those 'middlemen' are also Voters and Potential Donors to campaigns, and developers, and MexicanGovernmentInfluence... uh, wait. FORGET THAT LAST PART. I DIDNT MENTION THAT. OH CRAP.
Speaking of Organ Pipe Nat'l Monument and the environment...
It's such a shame when I-25 is right there.
Just pointing out that the wall issue is complex.
Not really. It won't do the job it is designed for, it's going to cost billions to erect and don't get me started on the low ball maintenance estimates. It's rotten PR.
That it's FEMA (formerly FUBAR) and a monumental waste of money, doesn't seem that complex to me.
Now, this wall, it's gonna be one of them "smart" walls, right? The ones that keep people out but don't keep them in?
No?
Just 69 miles north, Daniel Garza, 76, faces a similar situation with a neighbor who has political connections that reach the White House..."All that land over there is owned by the Hunts," he says
Hah! If its THE Hunts then their connections extend up pass the White House to God/Buddah/whatever. This is the family that spawned the brothers that tried to corner the silver market back in the 70's. I think they still own a big chunk of southeast Texas. They probably have enough cross-party pull at all levels to have part of the wall built through Mexico if they wish.
The wall will cover 370 miles of a 1951 mile border. That's not much "border security," but it's a lot of condemned property.
I'm not a fan of the wall but its gross placement is designed to close off the most easily accessible routes based on terrain. Its like sealing a mountain range by just blocking the passes. There are long stretches of the Rio Grande out in Big Bend country that you can't transit unless you have an inflatable raft and serious rock climbing skills.
Closing off the easily transited areas will seriously impeded the ability to people to sneak across boarder. In theory. If the government wasn't running the show.
Closing off the easily transited areas will seriously impeded the ability to people to sneak across boarder. In theory. If the government wasn't running the show.
As an added benefit it will increse traffic through the many undiscovered tunnels that have been burrowed beneath the border making it easier to ID them and shut them down.
I know, you naysayers will just claim that more tunnels will be built because of some mysterious demand thingee, but you're wrong.
Or not.
Here's something interesting: the lawyer representing those suing over this has a series of links to the MexicanGovernment.
Not only that, but a relative of the plaintiff mentioned above and others use some rather interesting terms, like the "USApartheidWall".
Needless to say, knowing about that and discussing what that part of the story means is beyond Reason's capabilities. Their goals are simply to support corporate welfare.
Okay J Sub, bad choice of words.
Let's say that building a border fence isn't going to be more disruptive to the habitat than what we got now.
The larger point is that the whole border issue is complex, it isn't a simple matter of not building a wall, which, for the record, I am against. I saw the Penn & Teller vid. 🙂
Immigration laws have to be reformed and streamlined so that we can have an orderly flow of labor back and forth across the border. Simply not building a wall isn't enough. And although we hate GWB for his multitude of sins, he has been more forward thinking on this matter than any recent prez.
Open Borders? Sure. I'm for that. Right after you abolish the welfare state and we move on to a system that looks a little more like libertopia.
In the meantime, we're not getting open borders any sooner than we're going to legalize drugs or hookers. So, we have to make the best of what we have and that requires a push for a wholesale liberalization of immigration law and procedure.
And, guess what? That ain't going to happen either. So we'll dodder on trashing the environment, screwing up the labor market, and nothing will change much except taxes will go up and people will continue to hate immigrants.
Needless to say, knowing about that and discussing what that part of the story means is beyond Reason's capabilities
UUUUHHHHHHHHH. I DONT UNDER STAND LASTWORDS. WAY TOO CLEVR 4 US. BIG WORD??!! I SEE WORDS NO SPACES AND ME CANT UNDERSTAND MEXICANGOVERNMENT WORD EITHER. IF WE DUMB, NO ARGUE, WHY HE KEEP COMING BACK? LOOK, A ROCK!
TWC,
If the government went back to mostly ignoring illegal immigrants -- the relative state of affairs prior to the crackdowns demanded by compromises towards the (failed) comprehensive immigration reform -- there would be less trashing of the environment, less screwing up of the labor market, and less hatred of immigrants.
Sorry, OOgh get angry when oogh not have cigarette.
I have plenty of time to surf the entire internet just to link to my own blog. I work at home sealing envelopes.
Imagine if the Soviets had built a wall that covered only a third of the Berlin border.
Yeah, they meant business. They built over 800 miles of wall with guard towers, bombs, and mean dogs. The Mexican Wall, in comparison, is just for show.
Wow. I'm shocked that they're actually building the thing. Ever since it's been proposed, the WALL has seemed like vaporware.
Click,
Why would it be surprising that people who live near the border have LinksToMexico? And who fucking cares? You act as if Mexico is our NumberOneEnemy or something. The majority of America doesn't give a shit about The Wall one way or the other. The fringe does, and they are most vocal - as always.
I took a look at the areas mentioned using Google Earth...while the area in Brownsville is difficult to determine, the golf course is prominent with a fair bit of development around it.
As for Grenajeo, it is easier to see. The area defined for Sharyland Plantation is a fair bit north of the border. Enough so that it should not be affected by any wall.
Perhaps the journalist could elaborate on the areas impacted.
Is the placement of the wall publicly available?
MikeP, I don't think the government is going to ignore the illegal problem any longer. There are too many people who are loud and pissed.
I'm not a fan of the wall but its gross placement is designed to close off the most easily accessible routes based on terrain. Its like sealing a mountain range by just blocking the passes.
A golf course isn't easily accessible? You know that a sand trap isn't really a form of trap, right?
If the golf course fees are high enough, then it is most definitely not easily accessible.
TWC,
Bush, McCain, Obama, and Clinton are all on the pro-immigrant side of the general population. It's not dreadfully obvious that the intransigent anti-immigration folk are going to get their way in the end.
The fence was the first part of a bigger deal that never came through. It can be unappropriated by Congress just as it was appropriated, though the political price for legislators may be high.
Spending other people's money, on the other hand, is always cheap.
Yeah, I saw The Coneheads movie, too.
I've long thought the best thing the build a wall folks could do would be to recommend a ten mile wide, 2000 mile long nature preserve, a la what happened in the Korean DMZ. They'd get nativists and environmentalists united.
"Gilbert Martin is right. Fiscal responsibility would dictate that only the poor should be screwed over by having their property taken, because it's cheaper to compensate them."
Hell yes, screw em.
After all, they've been screwing me for decades by getting all sorts of government transfer payment and government services that they aren't paying for (since they pay no taxes) and that I am having to pay for since I pay plenty of them.
I'm tired of paying the freight for them. I owe them nothing. There's not so much as one single thing that any one of them has ever done in his or her entire life that ever had anything whatsoever to do with me having so much as once cent of what I've got.
Rhywun: let me suggest clicking the link above... and learning.
The person linked to the MexicanGovernment is a lawyer based in L.A. He wrote an "OppositionResearch" paper for them, he collaborated with them on a program to for a CertainTypeOfVisas, and he was at least introduced to some clients by the MexicanGovernment (the prosecutor said it went beyond that). He also has a link to Reason favorite the SPLC.
I just noticed that the author of this is Kerry Howley, a true lightweight who has no ability to look into those links and wouldn't care anyway just as long as some small group of questionable folks could make money.
mo,
A golf course isn't easily accessible? You know that a sand trap isn't really a form of trap, right?
You know what the word "gross" means in this context, right?
It helps if you actually cognitively process all the words I write. I put everyone of them in a sentence for a reason because I found that randomly inserting words confused people.
Gilbert Martin-
Amen! In fact, given how much those poor people have taken for you, I have a modest proposal for dealing with the problem....
Bonus: Pretty soon they won't care if their land is taken to build a fence.
I smell like a strange combination of week-old boiled broccoli and feces.
Serious question, Lonewacko: why don't you use your SpaceBar when writing about ImmigrationIssues?
It won't matter - at the first sign of trampled greens are poor upkeep, the golf course will hire armed security. Golfers don't fuck around.
I think Lonewacko was beaten up by a taco when he was a kid.
or maybe molested by a quesadilla.
The US is better than becoming the Warsaw Pact.
I wonder how the East Germans decided where to place the Berlin Wall?
Probably the same way the DHS is doing now.
So these Hunt characters see all the land surrounding their property eminent-domained away from the rightful owners for a future wall-building project. Then the next administration takes over, and the wall is forgotten. Later, the government sells off the seized land at fire-sale prices to certain individuals with political connections...
(Hey, conspiracy theories are easy!)
Plus, the wall will be made of silver.
If Kerry Howley isn't just a lightweight hack, she should not only be able to name the MexicanGovernment-linked lawyer discussed above, but she should also be familiar with his major "accomplishment" (hint: it involved the U.S. SupremeCourt).
And, since Reason magazine is on the same side as that MexicanGovernment-linked lawyer, I see no reason why they shouldn't highlight his "pro-liberty" "accomplishments" in a future post, perhaps interviewing him about all the good work he's done and encouraging more Americans to be like him.
Question: are "free" trade "libertarians" this century's version of domestic Communist collaborateurs? Discuss.
MikeP, you're not suggesting WEREWOLF MEXICANS are you? That's going to keep me awake all night.
I was actually suggesting silver as a key construction material for the wall to enhance the veracity of the Hunt conspiracy.
But you make a good point. We can't be too careful.
If Kerry Howley isn't just a lightweight hack, she should not only be able to name the MexicanGovernment-linked lawyer discussed above, but she should also be familiar with his major "accomplishment" (hint: it involved the U.S. SupremeCourt).
If her being a lightweight is the issue, a few extra quesadillas should solve that problem. But how is she supposed to get them in a country without Mexicans, huh?
Immigration laws have to be reformed and streamlined so that we can have an orderly flow of labor back and forth across the border. Simply not building a wall isn't enough.
TWC - No arguments from me. The status quo is a legal and humanitarian disaster. Your comment on our mentally challenged president's attempts to deal with the issue I agree with as well. You have to give credit where credit is due.
Guest workers ineligble for public benefits? That is a can of worms isn't it? I couldn't imagine the US kicking someone out for pregnancy like some of the other labor importing nations do.
Given the foaming at the mouth nativists reaction to GWBs proposals, do you think that an adult discussion on these issues will happen on capitol hill during the next administration?
Are "racist" conspiracy "trolls" this website's version of spam V!AGRA MAN-HANCMENT emails? Discuss.
Yes, but how many links is he from Kevin Bacon?
mmm bacon...
Question: are "free" trade "libertarians" this century's version of domestic Communist collaborateurs? Discuss.
hmm.
No?
Are you simply the biggest douchebag ever to grace der intertubes?
In contention, no doubt
Ever occur to you WHY no one like you?
Pardon = "Why no one LIKES you"
I didnt want to give the impression I was talking about your 'uniqueness'. Though there is that. Just, unique in a really, really gay way.
"are "free" trade "libertarians" this century's version of domestic Communist collaborateurs?"
What?
Let's say that building a border fence isn't going to be more disruptive to the habitat than what we got now.
It is a different kind of disruption with potential to be more disruptive to the larger mammals.
And, of course, I agree with MikeP...it is a shame that people don't just use I-25 to get through the desert to their jobs...but the wall ain't gonna help the current disruptions. It's just gonna widen them, and add disruptions of its own.
"Gilbert Martin-
Amen! In fact, given how much those poor people have taken for you, I have a modest proposal for dealing with the problem...."
Nah, taking some of their property is enough.
Consider it reparations for slavery.
As a test, googling "LoneWacko"AND"Idiot"... yields 5,410 results
by contrast, "GILMORE"AND"idiot" yields 234,000 results.
The funny part is the 5,410 are in most cases direct references to our bueno muchaco... while mine are (sadly) all about the Gilmore girls, Happy Gilmore, or the Governor of VA.
He won "idiot of the day" awards on a range of other blogs. Dude gets around!
Im glad he doesnt have children. That would be so sad. Like, say, the Westboro Baptists, who are a continually procreating idiot-machine.
Again, not a fan of the wall but what's with this hysterical comparison with the Berlin Wall. Seriously, isn't there an inherent qualitative difference between a wall designed to keep people in against their will and a wall designed to just make guest use the front door?
It's like saying the person who locks their front door to keep out thieves is the moral equivalent of the serial killer who locks his victims in the basement since they both use locks.
"Again, not a fan of the wall but what's with this hysterical comparison with the Berlin Wall. Seriously, isn't there an inherent qualitative difference between a wall designed to keep people in against their will and a wall designed to just make guest use the front door?"
I would have less of a problem if the sacrifice was shared by all, but of course, some are asked to sacrifice more than others so we can have walls for our house.
FTA:
The Observer was unable to get any answers as to why some properties were being passed over, and it seems premature to conclude much of anything about the process. But Garza's question applies to the entire project: The wall will cover 370 miles of a 1951 mile border. That's not much "border security," but it's a lot of condemned property.
I thought if you owned a piece of property you could choose to defend it any way you pleased. I guess that only applies to non-border adjacent lands.
Pissed Off American Wildlife is code for "jew"
I propose a 10 mile exclusionary zone along the US border with no fence. However, there will be one million billion wild javalina hogs with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.
/Couldn't resist.
It's like saying the person who locks their front door to keep out thieves is the moral equivalent of the serial killer who locks his victims in the basement since they both use locks.
If we had a sane immigration policy--one that doesn't have unintended consequences of the sort that drive folks like Click nuts--we wouldn't be talking about pissing so much money away on a(nother) useless feel-good project.
I would have less of a problem if the sacrifice was shared by all, but of course, some are asked to sacrifice more than others so we can have walls for our house.
Not following. The burden of being locked out of houses is borne disproportionately by the poor, who get locked out of the good houses.
The Wall is a last resort of a dieing culture.
The political will of the US is not to fix the cause of why the wall is being built, but to make mo'monie. Berlin wall, china wall, even the Romans tryed it, and many others also. Walls never-ever do what they were built for.
I assume Ms. Tamez is being glib when she asks this question?
Mr. Bush, tear down this wall.
You know what the word "gross" means in this context, right?
It helps if you actually cognitively process all the words I write. I put everyone of them in a sentence for a reason because I found that randomly inserting words confused people.
Right, because 80% of the US border is impassable. 370 out of 1951 doesn't block all the easily accessible parts, even without looking at the fine details.
I used to be a homeless rodeo clown but now I am a world class magician !
It is unbelievable that we are going back to the Cold War Era, where irrational fears, propaganda, and xenophobia were the leading forces in the world. Even with the amazing technological advancement that humankind has made, apparently in terms of intellect we have not made great progress. I definitely do not know how a fence will "secure" the borders. Unfortunately, we are fragile in other fronts... having some hacker in India or Kosovo who can get access and destroy the air travel or banking system can do more than damage... and does he have to cross the border to do it??? NOOO! So why don't we think of a more sensible, efficient, reasonable (PLEASE!!) way to fix this "security" issue. I am not 100% agreeing with this article's suggestion see here but at least it could be a starting point.