Reason Writers Around Town

Has the U.S. played right into Osama's hands?  In his column for FoxNews.com, Radley Balko fears the worst.

Comments

[Marcvs]

They published that on FoxNews.com? Wow. That's surprising.

[George]

There is some evidence that Iraq had WMD and was responsible for 9-11 because they were known to have bought aluminum, and maybe uranium.

[Marcvs]

I'm sorry, I was going to make a reasoned argument, but after 6 years there is only one thing you can say to people that state things like you did George:

You are a fucking idiot.

[kohlrabi]

Hey, I thought FoxNews was supposed to be a mouthpiece for Bush.

Anyway, good article, it articulates the point without sounding shrill. I'm happy to see it on Fox and hope it'll have some impact.

[kohlrabi]

Marcvs,

I think George was being sarcastic.

[George]

I think George was being sarcastic.

Ja

[Marcvs]

If so, then I apologize, and my sarcasm detector is on the fritz. It's hard to tell sometimes on here, though.

[J sub D]

Just for the sake of argiment, let's concede that the president truly believed than Saddam eas cooperating with Al Queda and posessed WMDs. Let's also concede that he desired to bring (force?) a secular democratic government to Iraq. He knows better now, he knew better years ago. His actions indicate either delusion or an immoral disregard for the live s of Iraqis and U.S. servicemenbers alike. I see no reason to forgive him or his supportters in congress. Those who have said "I was wrong, let's get out." I'll give credit for honesty and the ability to doubt their own infallibity. We will be reaping what he has sown for decades to come. Worst president ever? He's in the bottom three.

[KingHarvest]

J sub D:

Just curious, who do you consider the two other worst presidents? Lincoln & FDR?

[Episiarch]

They published that on FoxNews.com? Wow. That's surprising.

Radley has had articles on Fox for years. If you actually think Fox is any worse in its way than any of the other networks, you're delusional or partisan. In fact, other than Stossel on ABC(?), Fox is the only outlet I've seen ever give any real space to libertarian ideas.

[Warren]

Yeah well, try finding the link to Balko's article from the Fox home page. No fair doing a search. Here's a hint, it's wedged between "What is Robert Redford's Problem with America" and "Mourning, Remembering Jennifer Dunn"

[Reinmoose]

Fox is the only outlet I've seen ever give any real space to libertarian ideas.

Which they then all have a good laugh at

[Reinmoose]

I'll grant you though, I also hate all major news networks. CNN is just a bunch of hacks.
I'm a personal fan of CSPAN, expecially when they have those call-in sessions where they have 3 lines (1 for republicans, 1 for democrats, and 1 for independents). They really crawl out of the woodwork for that one!

[Episiarch]

Which they then all have a good laugh at

For all I know, that may be, but at least they did it. When you see a libertarian piece on CNN you let me know, laughs or no.

I'm not saying Fox is TEH GRE4TEST, but at least give them credit for printing something their competition won't even let see the light of day.

[J sub D]

ust curious, who do you consider the two other worst presidents? Lincoln & FDR?

James Buchanan and Richard Nixon.

[Warty]

Radley, please, please, please post the mail you get for this one. Please.

[JBinMO]

WTF did Buchanan do?

[Warty]

Buchanan let the Union dissolve like a prick. I'd replace Nixon with Wilson, but Buchanan is definitely the worst.

[Aresen]

Radley, please, please, please post the mail you get for this one. Please.

Especially the ones you get from the people on Little Green Footballs.

I need something to depress me.

Seriously, though: Good post, Radley.

[JBinMO]

We were a Republic, you can't blame him for the civil war. If you want to blame anyone for it try Lincoln, he didn't even appear on any ballot in any of the states that formed the confederacy.

[Randolph Carter]

I was gonna say...

HATE MAIL FEST!!!

I wonder if the word 'demoncrat' will appear. I wait with baitin' breath.

[Warty]

I prefer demonrat, myself. Bonus points if it's written in full caps, double bonus if it's written in partial caps, like: demonRAT.

[J sub D]

WTF did Buchanan do?
While the union was disintegrating and the southern states were seceding, not a goddamn thing.

[TrickyVic]

"""Their best hope is to scare us into rash, ill-considered actions like overextending our military, alienating our allies, and doing away with the open society and civil liberties that define who we are."""

It's interesting how much Bush has contributed to make it a job well done.

[J sub D]

I'd replace Nixon with Wilson,...

If we were talking the four worst presidents, Wilson makes my list too.

[Happy Jack]

They published that on FoxNews.com?

The fun begins when Radley posts the letters to the editor.

[Cesar]

Radley, please, please, please post the mail you get for this one. Please.

Seconded. Please do it!

[Joe Dokes]

Marcvs,

I have to agree, I'm afraid that I voted for GW Twice! Although, given the choices I had I can still make the argument that he was at least nominally better. Plus, I live in California so my vote didn't count.

Gee is that the most pathetic rationalization you ever read or what.

Yes, I am afraid marcvs is correct Bush is a fucking idiot. I'll add the evidence:

1) squandared a trillion dollar surplus, by giving a great tax break to his buddies.

2) Failed to close the deal on Afganistan, Fuck what would it have taken, another six months of concerted effort?

3) Failed to listen to his generals. Several said it would take at least 250,000 troops to conquer and pacify Iraq. Bush tried to do it on the cheap and created a quagmire.

4) Installed Paul Bremmer as the head of Iraqi reconstruction. Bremmer brought in a bunch of neocons, a bunch of homeschooled ninies who wanted to play monopoly in Iraq by privatizing the whole fucking country. The result being they treated Iraq as a giant chance to create the perfect neocon utopia. When that didn't work they went home, leaving Iraq in ruins.

5) Failed to fire George Tenet on September 12.

6) Failed to fire George Tenet six months after no weapons of Mass destruction in Iraq.

7) Gave George Tenet the Presidential Medal of Freedom. My god WTF?

8) When the army and Marines were beginning to be stretched thin in 2004 and 2005 failed to ask Congress to increase defense spending to increase the overall size of the armed forces. Thus, in 2007 with some progress in Iraq the US is unable to continue combat operations in Iraq at current levels without actually hurting our national security.

9) Hired and listened to Donald Rumsfeld, who's "light footprint" strategy in Iraq sent in a force too small to pacify the country. Remember Don was the same Moron who brought us the end of the Viet Nam War.

10) Failed to Fire Don Rumsfeld after the 2004 Presidential election when it was safe to do so, instead kept him in office for another two years to further destroy our armed forces.

11) Failed to reconfigure our armed forces. Although the U.S. has been facing asymetrical warfare for over two decades the U.S. still fails to adequately train our troops in counter insurgency.

Regards

Joe Dokes

[Brandybuck]

One thing that's unmistakable throughout the book is that without Bin Laden and Al-Zawahiri, there could not have been a Sept. 11

OMG! That's not the 9/11 Truth! Radley must be one of the insiders who planned the 9/11 false flag op!

🙂

[Cesar]

Dokes-

I agree with everything you wrote except the tax cuts, which I think were good--of course he didn't cut spending so, that kind of makes it a wash. I can add to your list

The so-called "No Child Left Behind", a huge federal intrusion into what should be a state and local issue, education

Medicare Part D, the biggest entitlement program since Lyndon Johnson pushing us further down to the road towards federal bankruptcy

Signing McCain-Feingold, a huge affront to freedom of speech

Expanding the powers of the executive branch enough to make Richard Nixon blush

Choosing two of the worst attorney generals in modern memory

In short, hes combined the big government spending of Lyndon Johnson with the paranoid, over-reaching executive branch of Richard Nixon.

[Cesar]

JBinMO--

The United States is not a league, and hasn't been since the Articles of Confederation. States can't enter and leave as the please, it would lead to nothing but strife and war. I don't like Lincoln's over-reaching in civil liberties, but he made the right decision in not letting the lower south seceede.

[JBinMO]

I understand that, my point was that you can't blame James Buchanan for the Civil War.

[Cesar]

I understand that, my point was that you can't blame James Buchanan for the Civil War.

Oh, my fault. I thought you were one of those "LINCOLN IS TEH EVIL" types.

[JBinMO]

I do wonder however if the representatives from the colonies knew their states could not leave when they joined. Right now all the european counrties think they will be able to leave the EU if they want. I bet in a few hundred years their decendants will find that is not the case.

[Cesar]

I do wonder however if the representatives from the colonies knew their states could not leave when they joined.

They probably believed they could leave if they were ever denied effective political representation, or suffered real tyranny. I.e., some dictatorial President says they no longer have representation in Congress or something along those lines. But the South left for a very petty reason--because their sectional party lost an election.

[Warty]

You can blame him more than Lincoln. The real people to blame, though, are the bellicose idiots in the South who were perfectly willing to destroy the country.

[TJ]

Really Good Article, Mr Balko. Really, really good! Thanks.

[Urkobold?]

FOX NEWS? CNN? BAH. THE URKOBOLD GETS ALL OF HIS NEWS FROM HSN.

[JBinMO]

When I talk to europeans, they tell me they can leave the EU whenever they want. I wonder if you would have gotten the same answer from the people of South Carolina in 1790.

[Cesar]

When I talk to europeans, they tell me they can leave the EU whenever they want. I wonder if you would have gotten the same answer from the people of South Carolina in 1790.

South Carolina always thinks they can leave.

Outside of there, it probably would depend on who you ask.

[gaijin]

Good article Radley...the only thing missing is what should be done about the situation we find ourselves in.

[Pro Libertate]

Key West seceded.

[JBinMO]

Neither our constitution nor the EU charter/constitution say you can or cannot.

[Smappy]

Radley (or other educated commenter),

Just curious. You mention in the piece that "we now know" that the Iraq war was planned before the 9/11 attacks. Where's the evidence on that? I'm not claiming to know it's not the case, I'd just like to know if there really is solid proof that Bush would have made the pitch to go into Iraq without 9/11 to grease the wheels.

[Joe Dokes]

Cesar,

Excellent post particularly this--

"In short, he's combined the big government spending of Lyndon Johnson with the paranoid, over-reaching executive branch of Richard Nixon."

Probably the best criticism of GW EVER!!

As far as worst presidents. GW has to rank right at least in the top ten, if not the top 5. Let's see who else sucked:

Lyndon Johnson-- Vietnam fiasco and the Great Society. Liberals try to pin Vietnam on Ike, but there were fewer than five hundred advisors in Vietnam when Ike left office. The civil rights act and voting rights act were perhaps the most important social gains made (although most on this board would disagree since it usurped state power.) The Great Society has had the distinction of almost undoing all the gains of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights acts.

Nixon-- He really didn't have any secret plan to end the Vietnam war, so he let it drag on another five years so another 25K men could be killed. Watergate was perhaps the most serious and substantial breech of trust and the constitution by any elected official.

U.S. Grant-- Proof that competence in one area does not mean competence in all areas. Scandal ridden adminstration.

Andrew Johnson-- Almost impeached due to political incompetence. Nearly destroyed the office of the President.

Regards

Joe Dokes

[J sub D]

Radley, please, please, please post the mail you get for this one. Please.

Seconded. Please do it!

Me three!

[Andrew]

Another vote for posting the hate mail, Radley. Work's stressful lately. Need to laugh.

[Pro Libertate]

Buchanan arguably allowed the Civil War to happen. Speaking of that period, Lincoln could be simultaneously labeled good and terrible, depending on how much you credit or blame him for certain actions.

Don't forget Carter, either.

[JBinMO]

Buchanan was a lame duck president, lincoln had already been elected jst hadn't taken office yet and his mittary was in "the West", even if hed had disptched notices to recall them right away, they probably would not have made it back before Buchanan left office.

[Brian Courts]

although most on this board would disagree since it usurped state power

Not to get too far OT here, but that is not the (real, at least) reason most people on this board would give for opposing something. In case you haven't noticed, libertarians are not all that infatuated with state power of any kind, be it national or local. Most libertarians are concerned with federalism, to the extent they are, only for pragmatic reasons tied to the most practical way of defending individual freedom. True philosophical opposition from libertarians is founded on a government usurping individual power, if you will, not from usurping another government's power.

[J sub D]

Don't forget Carter, either.

Carter doesn't make my list. He was completely ineffectual, but he's got a lot of company among the 42 who have held the office.

[JBinMO]

"True philosophical opposition from libertarians is founded on a government usurping individual power, if you will, not from usurping another government's power."

That is correct on its' face, but when the states had more power it sort of extended the seperation of powers. If the state government had more power, than it would not be as big a deal if the excutive brance tried to increase its' powere over the ledistative and judicial.

[JLE]

I'm sure I'm not the first to say this, but it's a sad day when Reason is referring to Fox for the news.

[joe]

Fox News is not a mouthpiece for Bush. Fox News is not a mouthpiece for conservatism.

Fox News is the volunteer house organ of the Republican Party. When it helped the Republicans to build up Bush's image, they fellated him. Now that he's unredeemable damaged goods, they kick him around.

[iih]

JLE:

Indeed -- especially that it is 2 days after Dr. Paul gets mistreated by Bill O'Reilly. And 9 days after he was setup by Fox in the GOP debate. Sad indeed.

[joe]

Worst three presidents, in alphabetical order:

Bush the Lesser, Andrew Jackson, Richard Nixon

So far, on the Minnesotans have taken that criminal, idiot genocidaire's name off the annual party dinner. Good for them.

[Brian Courts]

Anyway, about the topic at hand, Balko's is a fantastic article and probably the best short piece I've seen on the topic for concisely laying out just how terribly wrong the US has been in its actions since 9/11. It would be comical if it wasn't so deadly serious just how inept this administration has been in dealing with Al-Qaeda.

Actually inept is too kind - if it were only inept we'd be much better off. But, as Balko explains, Bush's actions actually produced precisely the best-case scenario for Al-Qaeda while simultaneously destroying the lives of tens of thousands and squandering hundreds of billions of dollars.

As some others have pointed out, I could even forgive an honest mistake about the relevance of Iraq and the need to remove Saddam fueled in part by the anger and confusion following 9/11. But, blindly refusing to reflect on the situation in the years since and come to some re-evaluation in a desperate attempt to save face for that initial mistake is simply criminal.

The sad fact is that it would have been much better had Bush simply done nothing after 9/11. That isn't to say doing nothing was the correct response - I think going after and killing or capturing Osama and his lieutenants and dismantling the Taliban was entirely justified. It is only a testament to how disastrously wrong his response has been that doing nothing would have been so vastly superior to his actual actions these last six years.

[prolefeed]

joe, worst three presidents ever:

FDR, Wilson, Harding

The three you named aren't even close (well, OK, maybe Nixon ...)

[Brian Courts]

I'm sure I'm not the first to say this, but it's a sad day when Reason is referring to Fox for the news.

Uh, they weren't referring to Fox for the news, they were linking to Reason Senior Editor Radley Balko's column which Fox has published for several years. Unless you think Balko is a mouthpiece for the GOP I see no reason to lament linking to them (and, if you do think Balko is a mouthpiece for the GOP you obviously haven't been paying attention).

[joe]

Yeah, the FDR and Lincoln things just advertise your lunacy.

Sorry, that's just the truth.

[Skoal]

FOX NEWS? CNN? BAH. THE URKOBOLD GETS ALL OF HIS NEWS FROM HSN.

Hair Style Network?

[joe]

Naming FDR or Lincoln is like naming Reagan, or Carter, or Clinton.

Fine, you don't like them. A little perspective, please!

[Cesar]

Worst three: James Buchannan, Woodrow Wilson, and believe it or not James Madison. Yes, Madison did great things before the Presidency but he was very ineffective in office. He did not conduct the War of 1812 all that well.

I will add that I also think Bush the Elder is the most under-rated President.

[joe]

Bush the Elder is very underrated. Ford, too.

But you've got to do better than "undistinguished" to get into the bottom tier, at least in my book.

For example, Andrew Jackson distinguished himself by refusing to enforce a Supreme Court decision, so that the ethnic cleansing of Georgia could take place, on behalf of gold prospectors, resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands. And that's just for a start.

Undistinguished? No news is good news, know what I mean?

[joe]

Or even "ineffective."

[Brian Courts]

But you've got to do better than "undistinguished" to get into the bottom tier, at least in my book.

Undistinguished? No news is good news, know what I mean?

Or even "ineffective."

Absolutely. I'd only differ in saying that not only does being ineffective or undistinguished not get you to the bottom tier, but quite the contrary - it elevates you to the top tier.

[x,y]

Radley has had articles on Fox for years. If you actually think Fox is any worse in its way than any of the other networks, you're delusional or partisan. In fact, other than Stossel on ABC(?), Fox is the only outlet I've seen ever give any real space to libertarian ideas.

This is quite true. I often get into arguments with the partisan Democrats in my office about this. I say look, FOX is biased as hell. But have you ever seen CNN? MSNBC?

[joe]

Oh, yeah, bin Laden. Whoops, pulled a Bush there, got distracted by ideology.

In so many ways, the Bush administration misunderstands terrorism, the post-9/11 security environment, and how to fight the War on Terror.

Contrary to what we were told, bin Laden didn't expect us to cower under our beds after 9/11. His object wasn't to intimidate us, but to provoke us. That's what dissident terrorists - as opposed to state terrorists - do; they goad their enemies into oppressive security measures (which provokes further dissent from the population that bears the brunt of those "security" efforts), and into making tactical missteps out of rage and frustration.

The Iraq War was both.

[Rhywun]

Anyway, about the topic at hand, Balko's is a fantastic article and probably the best short piece I've seen on the topic for concisely laying out just how terribly wrong the US has been in its actions since 9/11.

I second that statement. Excellent article. And if the notion that Bush used 9/11 as an excuse to hurry up pre-existing plans to invade Iraq, well I say that's not only criminal but depending on the long-term results which we don't even know yet, it's easily enough to give Bush fils a shot at worst president ever.

PS. I too read Balko on Fox and the Agitator long before he showed up around here.

[Rhywun]

Rats. Please insert "is correct" after "Iraq" in my previous post.

[South Carolinian]

We can leave whenever we want.

We just changed our mind in 1865. Maybe we'll change it back tomorrow.

Though seriously there is a group of people that want to move to South Carolina, take control of politics and seceed. Personally I think they underestimate the eccentricity of South Carolinians. Just because we agree with your goals doesn't mean we will agree with you; expecially when it's a bunch of damn yankees moving down here and trying to do stuff.

GW: Definate top 5 worst.

I don't place FDR in the bottom 5, but maybe bottom 10.

Buchanan has to be there; he basically watched the country fall apart.

Grant and Harding get nominated for pure allowing of graft.

Madison doesn't make the consideration for me. He was not an effective president for sure and his handling of the War of 1812 and the events that lead to it were subpar, but we have had some way crappier presidents than him.

Jefferson gets a lot of points with Libertarians, but I come away very unimpressed. Yes he allowed the Alien and Sedition Acts to expire; however the rules that he allowed to fall in place after them were probably actually worse since truth was not allowed as a defense. His embargo was a horrible move. I know the Democratic party did not like a navy, however his complete refusal to have one left the US commercial fleet at the mercy of pirates and the British and the French. He certainly had a hypocritical part to him. Still even after the rant he doen't make the bottom 10 for me. He's like Madison a man out of his element with Executive power.

I find it one of the more interesting aspects of the 1790's to 1812 that the Democratic Republicans railed against the Federalists for many things that once they entered office they found out were very useful.

Guess I went off topic there.

But to sum up:

I think Bush the Lesser and Buchanan fit the bottom very well followed by Grant, Harding, Nixon, Wilson, and maybe Carter.

[Fluffy]

Joe, I don't think we can dismiss out of hand critiques that place either Lincoln or FDR high on the "worst" list.

After all, Andy Jackson was nearly universally admired as a fine President for a century and a half. But as noted above, he had the least respect of the rule of law of any President, ever [unless we want to talk about Jefferson Davis]. He also is essentially the equivalent of a Nathan Bedford Forrest for Native Americans.

If Jackson's reputation can disintegrate over time, so can FDR's. OK, Lincoln I grant you may be untouchable. Washington and Jefferson will have their monuments torn down before Lincoln.

[Jon H]

J Dokes wrote: "Yes, I am afraid marcvs is correct Bush is a fucking idiot. I'll add the evidence:"

(squalid litany deleted)

Honestly, it makes me suspect that W only ran in order to rigorously shit on everything his father ever touched. W doesn't have an actual family business to run into the ground, so he did it with the closest thing handy.

I bet W used to wipe his ass on his father's pillowcase, too, when Mom and Dad were out of town.

[Jon H]

"I say look, FOX is biased as hell. But have you ever seen CNN? MSNBC?"

Those networks are primarily biased towards the stupid. CNN goes for freakshow news and celebrity nonsense, plus that rightwing Beck jackass. MSNBC is mostly right wingers, apart from Keith Olberman, and on weekends it's unwatchable because it's mostly stupid reruns of celebrity bio shows from NBC's tape library.

MSNBC is the network that canned Phil Donohue, who was their highest rated show, and replaced him with a string of feckless right wing ideologues who couldn't beat a Ron Popeil infomercial for ratings.

[Bee]

FDR not one of the worst? Obviously not a lot of Westerners or people of Japanese descent voting here. Manzanar.... Heart Mountain.... Topaz ..... much worse than Guantanamo, in my opinion. FDR was a four-letter word in my family.

May we never see the like again.

Oh, and yes, W is a fucking idiot.

[GILMORE]

great post as always.

[gaijin]

Bush.
Like a rock.
Only dumber.

[Warty]

Undistinguished? No news is good news, know what I mean?

Yup. Personally, I think Calvin Coolidge was the best president ever. Seriously.

[TrickyVic]

"""Bush.
Like a rock.
Only dumber.""

Bush as smart as Miss Teen South Carolina.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXRUbJ87abc
This is funny, Or really sad. Ok, it's pretty funny

[Late to the Game Pedant]

Randolph Carter at 5:06:
"I wait with baitin' breath."

Should be bated (or perhaps 'batin', depending upon what you're actually doing while you wait.)

[Head Still Spinning]

7) Gave George Tenet the Presidential Medal of Freedom. My god WTF?

When I read they gave Yosarian a medal for bombing the ocean, I thought that was wry and ironic, but a bit over the top. I mean c'mon, in real life no one gets a medal for screwing up. Fast forward thirty years and we've become Bizarro World.

RIP Joseph Heller

[TrickyVic]

"""I mean c'mon, in real life no one gets a medal for screwing up."""

You can get a silver star for being a victim of a screw-up.

[TrickyVic]

"""7) Gave George Tenet the Presidential Medal of Freedom. My god WTF?"""

It's important to Bush for things to look better than what they really are.

[joe]

Give the devil his due.

Tenet did a bang-up job with Afghanistan, and that was what the medal was ostensibly awarded for.