The Jihad Against Global Warming

Move over Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth and Al Gore, Osama bin Laden is now speaking out against global warming according to the transcript of his latest communication with the world. To wit:

"The life of all mankind is in danger because of the global warming resulting to a large degree from the emissions of the factories the major corporations." 

Whole CNN story here.  

Comments

[shecky]

He added he'll be announcing his bid for the Presidency in a few days. And as President, he'll continue his policies of keeping American troops engaged in Iraq.

[A Big Man]

I guess I have to admit it. Wiegel was right. Daily Kos has taken over the world.

[Cesar]

Anyone seen how PETA says meat-eaters are responsible for global warming now? I'd be more concerned about global warming if every single leftist group under the sun didn't use it to promote whatever looney issue they believe in.

[CFisher]

Makes sense.

They both want to roll us back to the 8th century and they both would like to silence unbelievers.

[sixstring]

"Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth and Al Gore, Osama bin Laden"

All of the same ilk in my book.

[John]

'You elected the Democratic Party... but the Democrats haven't made a move worth mentioning. On the contrary, they continue to agree to the spending of tens of billions to continue the killing and war'...

Has anyone actually seen OBL and Kos in the same place at the same time? Moreover, are there any confirmed sightings of Kos prior to the US invastion of Afghanistan in 2001? I am really starting to wonder.

[gaijin]

read the whole thing fer yerself...

http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/transcript2.pdf

[Michael Pack]

Ron,With all the left wing nuts and now this I still can't but a carbon tax.When the issue is used to further every argument it loses it's validity.I saw on Yahoo news how all polar bears will be gone ny 2050 thanks to,yes,global warming.

[Aresen]

MSNBC is reporting that he blasted Democrats for not forcing a withdrawal from Iraq.

Jeez. He's trying to get President Bush a third term. He must REALLY hate the US.

[M.]

Wow, Osama has a better grasp of the science than Bush it seems.

[Taktix?]

I start getting worried when OBL start stumping for a national health care system...

I suppose there little reason to point out his hypocrisies, but doesn't OBL's money come from a massive Saudi construction firm? You know, one of those major corporations he's whining about...

Sadly, replace OBL above with many of the big anti-global warming names, and you won't miss a beat...

[Cesar]

I start getting worried when OBL start stumping for a national health care system...

Well, the Iranian president did criticize the US because people 40 million people are without health insurance and we have too many people in prison! I'm not kidding.

[stoneymonster]

"I just think people have got to be clear that we're being manipulated every time that they issue a statement, because they're trying to use the media as a way to terrorize us," she said. "After all, we haven't seen an attack, and this is one way that they try to terrorize the American people." - National Security Advisor

Pot/Kettle? (Not that Osama isn't a piece of filth).

[MikeP]

When the issue is used to further every argument it loses it's validity.

A recent letter to the editor...

With regard to Mary Terry Bader's response to the diaper-free children's story (Letters, Aug. 29), I would rather deal with a baby urinating in a public sink than the thousands of plastic diapers that will take eons to disintegrate in our landfills. She needs to see "An Inconvenient Truth" - that's something to worry about.

Name withheld to save them the embarrassment...

[joshua corning]

"The life of all mankind is in danger because of the global warming resulting to a large degree from the emissions of the factories the major corporations."

Global warming is panning out to be a great catch all for intellectually bankrupt political groups. The only one I can think of that it hasn't trapped yet is the Republican party.

[Episiarch]

Does the left or the right ever get embarrassed when terrorist scumbags use their talking points? I mean, seeing as most terrorists are collectivists of one stripe or another (religious/socialist/racist), they are bound to jump on somebody's bandwagon, whether it's social conservatism (all this decadence is destroying the decency or our society!), la Raza, or global warming.

[TrickyVic]

I haven't seen John and OBL in the same place at the same time either. Hummm, come to think about it, I have seen myself and OBL in the same place at the same time either. Wow, I have some thinking to do. lol.

John I'm sure you understand that the Dems didn't win enough to get their way. It takes a greater majority than what they have to bring about change.

[stoneymonster]

John I'm sure you understand that the Dems didn't win enough to get their way. It takes a greater majority than what they have to bring about change.

Or at least some desire to effect change...

[TrickyVic]

Cesar, that is correct. We have more people in prison than any other country. Maybe because we pass on summary executions. Maybe not. Certainly we cut less limbs for crimes than Iran does.

[JasonC]

I think he has us pretty well pegged when it comes to our idiotic foreign policy.

[Cesar]

Cesar, that is correct. We have more people in prison than any other country. Maybe because we pass on summary executions. Maybe not. Certainly we cut less limbs for crimes than Iran does.

Yes, I too thought it was ironic coming from a man whose government cuts off limbs and hangs people from cranes for "gender mixing".

[John]

all this decadence is destroying the decency or our society!), "

That is so 1960s. The society is degenerate is really the left's gig these days, especially after they lose an election.

"The book describes Soros, after Bush's victory in 2004, coming to the realization that (in Bai's words) "it was the American people, and not their figurehead, who were misguided. ... Decadence ... had led to a society that seemed incapable of conjuring up any outrage at deceptive policies that made the rich richer and the world less safe."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/books/review/Gillespie-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin

Soros has to be one of the creepiest people on earth. He is right out of Dr. Strangelove or 10 Days in May or something. Thank God he is not actually in charge of anything.

[John]

TrickyVic,

I said before the election that it wouldn't change a thing and I was right. We have the big scary Democratic Congress and here we are almost a year later and there are more troops in Iraq than ever before and the NSA has more authority to conduct wire taps on foreign communications. Make all the excuses you want, but the facts are still the facts.

[Karen]

Taktix, it's not just that he's able to finance his homicidal lunacy through money from a big corporation, it's that the actual source of the money is the Saudi government's oil revenues. No oil, no Osama-as-the-next-caliph. Of course, he's a murderous loon, which is usually inconsistent with much actual self-awareness.

[S.A. Miller]

I've read the whole transcript. Once you remove all the religious stuff, that is leaving only the political stuff, it reads like DailyKos talking-points.

Well except for the no taxes part....

[Minion of URKOBOLD]

"Yes, I too thought it was ironic coming from a man whose government cuts off limbs and hangs people from cranes for "gender mixing"."

NECK STUMP!!!! DO NOT FORGET THE NECK STUMP!!!

[prolefeed]

The only one I can think of that it hasn't trapped yet is the Republican party.

Dunno about your state, but a feelgood let's-all-fix-global-warming bill at the Hawaii state legislature was passed 49-2, with only one out of eight Republicans voting "no".

[Malto Dextrin]

The only reason he's wearing a turban is to cover up the tinfoil hat underneath.

[SuperMike]

What a hoot, it's amazing how many people really seem to want to destroy liberal western civilization. (Even some libertarians) I personally see western civilization and liberty are intertwined, and the enhancement of one leads to the enhancement of the other. Not everyone feels this way, of course.

[J sub D]

OK, I get it. He's a "true believer" a "man of faith" who has "submitted to the "Will of Allah".

I am forming new, all inclusive, religion with me as the Supreme Occultist, Holy Reverend, Caliph, High Mucky-muck, High Priest and so on. It's going to be called th "ONE TRUE FUNDAMENTAL, HOLY, APOSTOLIC, REFORMED, ORTHODOX, CONGREGATIONAL, PRESBYTERIAN, CHURCH OF WE DON'T KNOW SHIT AND WE'RE SURE OF IT!. I think I have most of the bases covered there. It's divinely inspired because God, Allah, all of the archangels, Buddha, Shiva, and all of the prophets didn't visit me or tell me anything about the "meaning of our existence". It therfore logically imperative that I have to share that non-message with the world. Tithing, for this millenium only, is reduced to 5%. I get the cute cheerleaders for my spiritual harem, celibate of course.

[LarryA]

I wonder how many Carbon Offsets it takes to compensate for a truck bomb.

[Trey]

"Dear Lord, please don't let OBL endorse Ron Paul. Yea in fact, cause him denounce Dr. Paul as the only Presidential Candidate he fears. Or, God, maybe it would be better if he doesn't mention Ron Paul, now that I think about it.

Your humble servant, etc,

Trey"

[SxCx]

Next up: Wal-Mart and private health care. After that: the Democratic nomination?

[Doctor Duck]

"ONE TRUE FUNDAMENTAL, HOLY, APOSTOLIC, REFORMED, ORTHODOX, CONGREGATIONAL, PRESBYTERIAN, CHURCH OF WE DON'T KNOW SHIT AND WE'RE SURE OF IT!

Dr. Bronner has your back, good buddy.

[Ken Shultz]

"Hardline" fused Islam and deep ecology oh so long ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardline_%28subculture%29

...no, I'm not saying that OBL is essentially hardline!

[affenkopf]

'I invite you to embrace Islam... There are no taxes in Islam...'

Osama bin Laden - Libertarian

[J sub D]

My thoughts on organized religion here.

[Cesar]

J sub D-

Where do I sign up?

[J sub D]

Hey, I made an HTML link work! Just one or two hundred more and I'll be proficient.

[J sub D]

Cesar: Send check or money order to 😉

[SuperMike]

Wow, I just read the article about hardline mentioned above. It's difficult for me to imagine a subculture that sounds like I'd enjoy it less than that. I know people I like that seem to hold two or three of their tenets, but it's like a hodgepodge of the ridiculous. If my lefty, vegetarian sister were also irritatingly spiritual and an annoying teetotaler, she'd be unbearable. It's like if had a Ted Nugent, Cat Stevens, and Julia Butterfly Hill (The tree-sitter) teleporter accident.

[joshua corning]

Does the left or the right ever get embarrassed when terrorist scumbags use their talking points?

Yes...i just read that Osama said that Islam has no taxes.

As a libertarian I am embarrassed that Islam has no taxes but we do.

[joe]

Cesar,

Shouldn't the truthfulness of the meat eating/carbom emissions statement be judged on its scientific merits instead of its political merits?

[Cesar]

Shouldn't the truthfulness of the meat eating/carbom emissions statement be judged on its scientific merits instead of its political merits?

Let me know when you give up meaet eating, joe.

[Cesar]

should read "MEAT eating". This blog really needs an "edit" feature.

[joe]

Cesar,

Shouldn't the truthlfulness of the meat eating/carbon emissions hypothesis depend on its scientific merits, rather than its political merits, or what I do?

And since you asked, I have drastically changed my meat consumption to reduce my carbon footprint, thank you very much.

[Cesar]

And since you asked, I have drastically changed my meat consumption to reduce my carbon footprint, thank you very much.

PETA says thats not enough joe!

Oh, and if you have kids you shouldn't be using disposable diapers! And you shouldn't drive very much. And don't leave your iPod plugged in when its fully charged. And you should probably live in Florida instead of Massachusetts to reduce your natural gas/oil consumption! Don't want to lie in a warm climate to reduce your "carbon footprint"? Your not serious about the threat!

[joe]

Who cares what PETA says is enough?

Shouldn't the truthfulness of the meat eating/global warming hypothesis depend on its scientific merits, not its political merits, what I do, or what PETA thinks is enough?

As far as your other suggestions go, the auto-dependency mandated by the sprawl pattern that dominates Flordia vastly increases one's carbon footprint, compared to the urbanist living arrangements available in Massachusetts.

[joe]

Cesar,

The Freeman say your opposition to big government isn't enough! You should be stockpiling weapons and canned food, blah blah blah blah blah...

[Cesar]

The Freeman say your opposition to big government isn't enough! You should be stockpiling weapons and canned food, blah blah blah blah blah...

I say the freeman are full of shit. They are using a very real concern about the growth of government to further their extreme ideological views/

I actually believe there is a lot of truth to global warming, but when every crackpot group on earth tries to use it to further their crackpot agendas I have to wonder if they are being truthful. Don't you?

You don't think PETA is abusing a very important issue to further their ideological agenda?

[joe]

Cesar,

It is healthy to be skeptical when a group with an agenda latches onto an issue like this.

But PETA is right on this one. Meat production produces vastly more carbon emissions per calorie than vegetable or grain production.

Skepticism isn't the same thing as Lysenkonism.

[Malto Dextrin]

My all-time favorite bumper sticker:

"Back to the Pleistocene", being sold at an Earth First meeting.

Made of plastic, of course, and meant to be stuck to the bumper of your car.

[Lamar]

I drastically reduced my meat consumption to reduce the level of carbon in my fat freaking belly. So far it seems to be working, and my own emissions are down as well.

[Cesar]

PETA says we should all be vegans to help reduce global warming. Let me know when you do your part!

[joe]

Whatever.

[jtuf]

I kind of wonder why OBL's video gets released by the media. After all, they didn't air the Virginia Tech shooter's video. The two men differ only in degree.

[Sam-Hec]

I had to look it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

Point being, making decisions about scientific matters on the basis of politics is stupid. Then it was about explaining genetic traits vs collectivist agrigulture. Now it's about Global warming vs. the status quo. In this regard, both OBL and various Climate Septics are 'Lysenkoistic' in their response.

[Sam-Hec]

p.s.
I am under the increasing suspicion that this Administration does not actually want OBL to be found as that would help put an end to the war profiteering going on.
http://tinyurl.com/2fzcta

[John C. Randolph]

Just for the record.. Osama's father owned a number of cement plants, among other business ventures. The money with which he financed his army of concubines and bastards is just as CO2-tainted as that of any other tycoon you care to name.

Incidentally, Osama is the ultimate poster boy for the hazards of rich kids going bad. He beats the Kennedys all to hell.

-jcr

[John C. Randolph]

"Skepticism isn't the same thing as Lysenkonism."

Lysenko was a woo-woo of the first order. I can't imagine how anyone could associate him with skepticism.

-jcr

[Sam-Hec]

"Lysenko was a woo-woo of the first order. I can't imagine how anyone could associate him with skepticism."

It's the poser 'septics' who call themselves 'skeptics' who are under comaprison with Lysenko. They reject actual science in favor of political theater. Ron Bailey may be considered a recovering 'Climate-Septic'. Though this is I think somewhat unfair; enviro-causes are often too political to not deserve automatic initial skepticism. It's the persistently septical to watchout for.

[Lib Vegan]

Cesar-
Are you going to address joe's point about judging the scientific merits of meat eating's environmental effects, or are you just going to keep asking 'are you vegan yet? are you vegan yet? are you vegan yet?'

Joe is right about that issue - and PETA's desire that everyone go vegan for animals and the environment is really not different than talk of abolishing the IRS for economic and individual freedom.

[SugarFree]

"Hardline" fused Islam and deep ecology oh so long ago.

Such is the power of our culture... just when I'd was pretty sure I had heard the dumbest fucking thing ever, along comes "Hardline" vomited up like a retarded hairball by our friends at wikipedia.

As for the rest of it, we always get in the weird fights over this sort of stuff. Vegans can be vegans. Most libertarians don't care, as long as they aren't trying to legislate everyone else into being vegans too.

Of course, many leftists have a tendency to reframe what libertarians see as ethical stances into moral stances, and our culture seems to have little problem legislating "morals" when the right comes up with them.

PETA gets mocked so much because they are assholes. In fact, I'm pretty sure they come up with the most retarded stuff so they can be mocked and gain victim sympathy. They are single issue trolls. If we didn't feed them, they'd probably just go away.

The environment is a red herring for them in this case. Even if meat production wasn't a higher carbon producer than strict plant diets, PETA would still be against eating meat. It's no different than born-again Christians pointing to study that proves a link between prayer and low blood pressure. OK, maybe it does, but if a different study showed it wasn't true, would they all stop praying?

Scientific evidence that bolsters a moral argument doesn't magically transform it into an objective slam-dunk.

Anyway, what happen to your vacation, joe? I'm not trying to get rid of you, I just want you well rested the next time something comes up we can have a real argument about...

[J sub D]

If eating meat contributes to global warming, I just don't see it. If the ratio of plant mass to animal mass (I know it's not that simple) is decreasing perhaps we have an issue to talk about. To date I have not seen any papers presenting evidence of that thappening. My understanding is the aspects of global warming caused by humans is the consumption of fossil fuels. Essentially releasing carbon that was removed from the atmosphere over megayears in a very short perion of time. That incidentally indicates that landfill are a positive in the global warming sceme of things. Granted, a pig eats plants and releases CO2 as part of respiration. The lack of said pig indicates that some other CO2 producers, (animals or barcteria) will consume the plant and release the aforementioned CO2. Methane is a seperate issue. Perhaps beef should be removed from or diets, but that certainly doesn't mean all meat.

[J sub D]

My previous post on this thread is an example of poor composition, but I think the points made are clear enough.

[Cesar]

Lib Vegan-

I'm not going to do something thats very harmful to my physical and mental health because it may help stop global warming. Which veganism is. I've known quite a lot of people who have or are currently vegans, they tend to look sickly, pale, and sleep a lot. Anecdotal, I know, but humans are omnivores by nature. It doesn't seem right to me to refrain from animal products.

[Cesar]

And when someone a little more objective than PETA puts out a report that says meat eating seriously worsens global warming, then I
ll look at the arguments.

[Lib Vegan]

Well, H&R isn't a vegan blog, so i'm not here to argue the vegan case. PETA makes a convenient pinata and they are lefty-dominated, but the more interesting point is how quickly people here engage in ad hominem and assume that the argument regarding environmental issues and meat eating must be without merit.

Certainly there are places to look into that issue in detail, and H&R isn't one of them, I suppose. I don't want to hijack the thread but here's some more info if anyone's interested:
http://www.goveg.com/environment-globalwarming.asp

[Cesar]

Lib Vegan find something like an academic article or journal on the issue. Goveg.com is also not a source I would trust, really. Something tells me they might lean one way on the issue.

[SIV]

...and PETA's desire that everyone go vegan for animals and the environment is really not different than talk of abolishing the IRS for economic and individual freedom.....

Yeah, cause freedom is all about restricting choice.

as long as they aren't trying to legislate everyone else into being vegans too

The animal rights proponents are. Some even engage in terrorism to stop scientific experimentation involving animals.

[Lib Vegan]

Cesar-
In the enlightened internet age, a certain amount of interest in the subject and actual work on your part might be required if you're to think about this issue and come to your own conclusion. If you don't like what you're being spoon-fed, then be a big boy and feed yourself. Of course, you could always retreat to your previous and very-convincing "PETA said it so it must be crazy" position. Yeah, we libertarians are SO much more thoughtful about things....

SIV-
I'm not aware of any legislation or attempts to use force to change people's diet from the vegan community. Educating people through private donations and asking them to change their opinions on issues such as meat-eating, personal freedom, or the evils of taxation seems pretty "free market" to me - whether it's PETA or Reason or anyone else.

If you cannot separate the idea of veganism from the specific philosphical and moral issue of animal experimentation, you should spend some time on Wikipedia.
There are legitimate philosophical positions on both sides of that debate, wouldn't you agree? And I can't believe you used the word "Terrorism". You know, in the post 9-11 world...

[Lib Vegan]

Cesar-
Vegans are weak and sickly? And libertarians are crazy paranoid gun nuts.
Anecdotes are fun! Yay!

[Cesar]

Vegans are weak and sickly? And libertarians are crazy paranoid gun nuts.
Anecdotes are fun! Yay!

Remember we don't believe in roads either 😉

[Lib Vegan]

Uh, oh. How am I going to get to work, then?
I must not be libertarian enough...

[Cesar]

Uh, oh. How am I going to get to work, then?
I must not be libertarian enough...

Toll roads! 😛 Besides that will make people drive less, which will reduce global warming!

I'll google stuff about the meat eating and global warming things, but color me sceptical.

Since I live in the city and walk most places, drive a diesel car when I do drive, and live in a warm climate where I don't have to use much oil or natural gas in the winter I honestly think I'm doing enough without giving up my protein.

[Lib Vegan]

Everybody's got to find their own comfort level, Cesar - I don't tell people what to eat.

I just want people to not dismiss things out of hand - but think about them on their scientific merits and don't judge all veg issues on the most extreme views of PETA or other organizations.
I think those of us in the libertarian community are used to having our positions caricatured and dismissed - those of us in the veg community have the same problem.

Even worse when you're in both camps, trust me...

[SIV]

I've met people who brag they haven't read a book since HS or University, people who proudly refuse to watch a movie in B&W, and people who triumphally pronounce that they don't consume animal products.

It is your choice to limit your experience, but I don't see the first two picketing book stores, libraries and theaters.I've seen vegans protesting fur stores and the KFC. They also disrupt hunting and fishing opening days.

[prolefeed]

Technically, if you really want to do your part to slow down global warming, you should stop eating meat, sell your car and ride a bicycle, get your food and clothes out of dumpsters, become homeless, and stop all electricity usage, including quitting using computers.

In other words, if you're on this thread arguing we need to do more to stop global warming, you're a hypocrite and part of the problem.

I mean that in the nicest possible way, of course.

[Sam-Hec]

"In other words, if you're on this thread arguing we need to do more to stop global warming, you're a hypocrite and part of the problem."

If that's whats actually argued for then it would be; but it's not. What you are describing is mostly the fearful imaginings of anti-hippies.

While there are a few enviro-nazis who would so advocate, the mainstream environmental realises that people want and need a realistic econmical plan to both minimize and adapt to climate change. Sierra Club's '2% Plan' is a good example of htis realism.

"I mean that in the nicest possible way, of course."

No you aren't! If you were sincerely nice you would have done some homework, and so tempered your statement. Homework like this:
http://www.sierraclub.org/twopercent/

[Lib Vegan]

SIV-
Disrupting fishing and protesting fur? Damn that free expression! Oh, the irony - you really don't see this?
Well, you probably don't do illegal drugs such as heroin and methamphetamine. You probably don't juggle or play the violin, either. I guess that's your choice to "limit your experience."
Of all the places on the internet, you'd think a libertarian blog would be one place where people would be celebrating free expression and individual choice. I guess just about some issues, though - right?

Prolefeed-
This is exactly the kind of ridiculous mis- characterization I'm talking about. Well if you're a Libertarian and you don't live off the grid completely, refuse to pay taxes, or own 46 guns, then you're just a hypocrite. So, if you're using government provided power you paid for to power your computer (that computer you also paid sales taxes on) then technically "YOU'RE" a hypocrite and part of the problem.

Wow, that was easy. I don't even have to actually construct an argument or think about individual issues in a detailed way so I can make my own decision. What a fun way to "argue" the issues.

Learning Points:
1. Freedom of choice and expression is good but only if it's on a some issues. Other issues will be laughed about without any real consideration of their merits. Just the way non-Libertarians laugh at our proposals about limited government. This obvious hypocrisy will be COMPLETELY lost on prominent posters here.
2. Global warming must be crap because come groups, thought to be crazy "one-issue trolls" talk about it.

H&R - dedication to critical thinking.[/sarcasm]

[prolefeed]

Sam-Hec: Using the phrases "Sierra Club" and "realism" in the same sentence without intending huge levels of sarcasm is LOL naive.

LibVegan -- Left the and off my 6:52pm post. I thought it was implied, but apparently it needed to be spelled out.

Also needing to be spelled out, apparently, is the fact that we're near the end of an effing interglacial, and that if nothing is done we're liable to eventually see mile-high glaciers once again covering cities like Seattle and Chicago again in geological time frames. That's the really big picture, and if you get it, then pumping some of the stored carbon in the earth into the atmosphere to mitigate this looming long-term ecological nightmare is quite possibly the most rational and virtuous thing to do -- a Woody Allen Sleeper moment writ large. But, hey, keep on believing all the BS of the leftist socialists at the Sierra Club.

In any event, market forces will result in most of the easily accessible carbon on the planet being burned, if not by us, then by China and India. Buying into some Kyoto Protocol type arrangement where we agree to cut back on energy consumption without any limits on Third World energy consumption will simply transfer economic growth from our economy to their economy. Look up "fungibility" in Wikipedia, especially as it relates to nations and power, if you're still scratching your head over the unanimous refusal of the U.S. Senate to be a signatory to that bloody treaty.

Lighten up, d00ds. Try to be happy, and not get your knickers in a twist about things you can't (and arguably shouldn't even try to) control.

[prolefeed]

Take two for 9:15am post:

Left the "sarcasm" and "/sarcasm" off my 6:52pm post. I thought it was implied, but apparently it needed to be spelled out.

******

Also, insert "pokes fun at Chicken Littles" and "/pokes fun at Chicken Littles" at beginning and end of 9:15am post.

Must. Preview.

[Lib Vegan]

Prolefeed-
Thanks for your summary of the coming "ecological nightmare".
It seems your prediction is at odds not only with what the Sierra Club thinks (whatever that is), but mainstream climate scientists as well.

And they say we libertarians are conspiracy theorists...

[Sam-Hec]

Prolefeed wrote:
"Also needing to be spelled out, apparently, is the fact that we're near the end of an effing interglacial, and that if nothing is done we're liable to eventually see mile-high glaciers once again covering cities like Seattle and Chicago again in geological time frames."

wow you really don't do homework. What you are saying is very much at odds with current climatology prdictions. There is NO immenant Ice Age! Any such thing is about 50,000 years away. And if one actually read the small amount of science (since corrected) behind the ice age scare of the 70's, one would have seen a prediction for 20,000 years.
http://www.wmconnolley.org.uk/sci/iceage/

If the goal of CO2 emmissions is to forestall an Ice Age, we have failed miserably in doing that...we are just making an Interglacial hotter and more chaotic; this serves only to stress out our nacent global civilization.

Here again is a link to another greenie site with realistic economical suggestions for minimizing CO2 without going broke, nor destroying freedoms, etc.
http://www.climatecrisis.net/takeaction/whatyoucando/

and nowhere in the GreenPeace Green Living Guide does it demand that we live in Mud-Huts? if not Homelessness, dumpsterdiving or any other onerous thing:
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/green-living-guide

[SIV]

Well, you probably don't do illegal drugs such as heroin and methamphetamine. You probably don't juggle or play the violin, either.

Lib Vegan,

Actually the violin is the only one I haven't tried. I'm pretty good with the juggling and the heroin!

Just because it is "legal free expression" ( and the hunting, fishing, fur protests often aren't)doesn't mean I am wrong to condemn them.
I may use my free expression to oppose protests against freedom and liberty.

I am in full enthusiastic support of every whaler who has freely expressed a harpoon into a GreenPeace vessel.

[SIV]

Lib Vegan,

You're for limiting government(supposedly), yet you are for limiting property rights. You might oughta study up on this "libertarian" thing.

[Lib Vegan]

SIV-
I'm glad to see you aren't limiting your experience with regards to heroin. Let us know how that goes for you.

You're right - it's not wrong to oppose speech you don't agree with by using more speech - but isn't that exactly what those protesters you're talking about are doing?

How have I expressed an opinion supporting the limitation of property rights? You ought to study up on that "non sequitur" thing.