A "Monstrous Act Directed Against Human Dignity"

The headline quotes the Vatican's statement against the provisional approval of the creation of human-animal chimeric embryos by Britain's Human Fertilization and Embryology Authority. Human eggs are hard to come by, so researchers want to put human nuclear DNA into the eggs of cows and rabbits to create embryos for medical research. The nuclear DNA would be removed from the animal eggs leaving chiefly the animal DNA (about 13 genes) found in their energy producing mitochondria. Researchers would then inject the enucleated animal eggs with nuclei taken from human cells and hope that they would grow into blastocysts from which embryonic stem cells could be derived.

The Vatican's statement brings up the question: If the presence of 13 animal genes is not enough to block the installation of a human soul, how many would be?

Senator Sam Brownback's (R-Kan.) Human Chimera Prohibition Act discussed here.

Some of my earlier thoughts about embryonic souls here.

Comments

[Timothy]

If this leads the way to intelligent, flying monkey servants I am for it.

[Reinmoose]

and this is news?

[Shelby]

If this leads the way to intelligent, flying monkey pests I am against it.

[TrickyVic]

Wasn't this a Rob Schnider movie?

[Syloson of Samos]

"The profound ethical question is: Is it right to transgress that species boundary and attempt to mix human and animal natures in however limited a fashion?"

Species boundary?

[John C. Randolph]

There is no reason for medical researchers to consult any geriatrics in funny hats for moral guidance.

Any vestiges of moral authority that the Vatican ever had were squandered when they failed to act against the many infamous child molestors among their ranks. Talk about a "monstrous act against human dignity"!

-jcr

[Syloson of Samos]

Ron Bailey,

BTW, I'm surprised that you didn't quote the statement that I did.

[Cowardly Lion]

You're creeping me out here.

[Keith]

God Schmod, i want my monkey man

[smartass sob]

What in hell does the Vatican or the Roman Catholic Church know about "human dignity"?

[Adam]

According to one study, we share more than 98% of our DNA and almost all of our genes with our closest living relative, the chimpanzee. This is just a another futile attempt of the church to maintain the myth of man's "special creation".

[LibertyPlease]

Any vestiges of moral authority that the Vatican ever had were squandered when they failed to act against the many infamous child molestors among their ranks. Talk about a "monstrous act against human dignity"!

Absolutely. If those predatory mystics can't even abide by known standards of decency, why should anyone pay attention when they claim authority for delineating new standards?!?

[Doctor Duck]

Species boundary?

Specious boundary.

[Aresen]

If this leads the way to intelligent, flying monkey pests I am against it.

Not sure of the clades - in the taxonomic sense - here, but aren't the Great Apes (including us) a branch of Primates who, in turn are a branch of monkeys?

Since the Pope has a plane to fly him around, wouldn't that make him an "intelligent flying monkey?"

Just askin'.

[Blue]

"transgress that species boundary"

Transgressing the species boundary is illegal in most states. EVEN between consenting species.

And the anwser is 32 genes.

[smartass sob]

Not sure of the clades - in the taxonomic sense - here, but aren't the Great Apes (including us) a branch of Primates who, in turn are a branch of monkeys?

Apes and monkeys are both primates. Apes don't have tails - monkeys do.

[The Dude]

Anybody read Michael Crichton's book "Next"? Terribly disorganized for a thriller, but it brought up a whole list of issues regarding biotechnology. Kinda scary a lot of the stuff he rails against in it is coming to pass.

[jimmydageek]

The Vatican's statement brings up the question: If the presence of 13 animal genes is not enough to block the installation of a human soul, how many would be?

Or, if animals have souls, would they really differ from ours (humans)?

[J sub D]

Since the Pope has a plane to fly him around, wouldn't that make him an "intelligent flying monkey?"

Flying monkey, yes. Intelligent? The jury's still out on that one.

[tk]

What happens when an elephant makes sweet love to a (consenting) pig?

[jimmydageek]

You get a mammoth porker?

[smartass sob]

What happens when an elephant makes sweet love to a (consenting) pig?

An elephant joke! Oh nooooooooo!

[Aresen]

What happens when an elephant makes sweet love to a (consenting) pig?

e-pig.com

[bigbigslacker]

Devilled ham?

[Kermit]

My fingers smell like ham.

[Trollaphile]

What about human plant combinations, we could engineer millions of soldures from poision ivy.

[Nomar Garciapara]

mine smell like Hamm...

(did I just go there? I sure did!)

[smartass sob]

What happens when an elephant makes sweet love to a (consenting) pig?

Hambugger?

[Chris S.]

God is outraged that we're forcing him to put human souls into these monsters. He's hurt, and he feels powerless to stop this atrocity.

[Ham]

My fingers smell like Noah.

[J sub D]

Kermit | September 6, 2007, 3:59pm | #

My fingers smell like ham.

Nomar Garciapara | September 6, 2007, 4:06pm | #

mine smell like Hamm...

(did I just go there? I sure did!)

You people are sick! Funny as hell, but sick.

[Ron Bailey]

The Dude: See my review of Crichton's NEXT here.

[jimmydageek]

Ham | September 6, 2007, 4:12pm | #

My fingers smell like Noah.

[VM] My fingers smell like Noam [/VM]

[footnote]

in catholicism, animals have no souls

[Chef]

What happens when an elephant makes sweet love to a (consenting) pig?

Now I know how all those white women feel.

/can't believe it took this long to get the reference.

[The Dude]

Thanks, Ron.

Very good review.

[tk]

Thanks Chef.
I was feeling all alone out here...

[iih]

Flying Monkeys?

I saw a few debating monkeys on Fox last night. Are these some of the products of this kind of research? Yes? Then no thanks, we have enough of them already.

[Brian Sorgatz]

Intelligent, flying monkeys? But that technology would bring us down to the level of Ding Dong the Witch.

[John C. Randolph]

Brian,

Why bring Hillary Clinton into this?

-jcr

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I thought Ron's best moment was when he ate Robert George's lunch on cloning.

[jtuf]

Human eggs are hard to come by

Maybe that's because it's illegal to sell them in the UK. Ethics aside, I would rule out this procedure on scientific grounds. During the late response, the first wave of protein synthesis translates maternal mRNA. Results from an egg with animal cytosol and a human nucleus might not apply to eggs with human cytosol and human nuclei. Why settle for lower quality data when the UK flushes millions of perfectly good human eggs down the toilet each month? UK MPs should get over their fear of paying women for their eggs.

[Daze]

Whatever happened to creating human-animal chimeric embryos the old-fashioned way?

[chuckpony]

Cue beat . . . a little bit more, a little bit more ... a little bit more, a little bit more.

[Mad Max]

"What in hell does the Vatican or the Roman Catholic Church know about 'human dignity'?"

Other than opposing compulsory sterilization, opposing World War One, saving numerous Jews in World War Two (gaining thanks from Albert Einstein and future Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir), destabilizing the Soviet empire and hence contributing to the collapse of Communism in Europe, feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, and a few other things, what have the Catholics done to promote human dignity? Gosh, that one really stumps me.

[SuperMike]

Where is it written that, to be a Libertarian in good standing, one must be a balls-to-the-wall (or in this case, no balls needed) transhumanist? Blurring the line between human and nonhuman is inherently risky with regards to all kinds of ethical propositions; some of those propositions, most especially those having to do with moral agency, would lie at the foundation of any workable libertarian society.
When you deny one kind of human dignity, it becomes much easier to deny other kinds. I just don't think an army of stalin-style chimeric man-monkeys would really fit into a libertarian future. If they're dumb enough to be treated like animals (and someone would undoubtedly make them dumb enough), then what about the few retarded people with demonstrably less capacity for moral judgement than them? We could treat them better than the man-monkeys out of respect for their genetic purity, but that obviously puts you on a slippery slope with the potential to unravel another strand of human dignity.

[daniel k]

What happens when an elephant makes sweet love to a (consenting) pig?
Spam?
And where do I go to get a cross species horse cock? (uh... for a friend, cause I certainly don't need one... probably even need penis reduction surgery - you know, like most Reason commentors)

[dhex]

i missed the part where we were actually going to create flying monkey men and all that.

[StupendousMan]

SuperMike,

What the heck is Human Dignity?