Our Porn Bureaucracy

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Truly, The Adam Walsh Child Safety and Protection Act, which comes to us courtesy of former Rep. Mark Foley, is a neverending bounty.

The Department of Justice wants to come up with an official list of every porn star in America—and slap stiff penalties on producers who don't cooperate.

The new rules, proposed under the Adam Walsh Child Safety and Protection Act, would require blue-movie makers to keep photos, stage names, professional names, maiden names, aliases, nicknames and ages on file for the inspection of the department's Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section.

"The identity of every performer is critical to determining and ensuring that no performer is a minor," according to the new proposal.

Given the longstanding tradition of legal compliance in the child porn industry, I don't see how this can possibly fail to solve the problem. 

My take on Foley and his lawmaking skills here. 

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  1. It’s just something to drive up the cost of producing porn. It’s pork for Hustler and Vivid, to strong arm their smaller competition out of business.

  2. Foley wanted to know who to shake down if his stock got too low. Hell, he’s still trying to find “Abram”.

  3. Won’t somebody think of the naked children?

  4. When you think about it, porn is basically a giant loophole in the prostitution laws.

    I had this idea a few years ago that involved opening a “movie studio” where male “actor/producers” could pay female “actresses” to make features with them for a *very* limited release audience (the producer).

  5. slap stiff penal ties

  6. The producers of adult movies do not pay the actors for having sex. They pay for the licensing rights to distribute the actors’ likenesses.

  7. It’s pork for Hustler and Vivid

    … heheheheh …

  8. The Department of Justice wants to come up with an official list of every porn star in America – and slap stiff penalties on producers who don’t cooperate.

    Heh, heh, heh. He said “stiff.” Heh, heh.

  9. If only there was information about porn readily available on the internet, it would make the job so much easier…

  10. The producers of adult movies do not pay the actors for having sex. They pay for the licensing rights to distribute the actors’ likenesses.

    I met a porn actress once, who told me that actors were paid by the sex act, with different rates for different acts. And the pay was pretty crappy if you didn’t have “star” status. Sort of like real acting.

  11. Given the longstanding tradition of legal compliance in the child porn industry, I don’t see how this can possibly fail to solve the problem.

    In criticism of the law, spokesmen for the child porn industry complained that compliance with the law would lead to a shut down of their businesses, creating an unfair catch-22.

  12. Well it’s funny how people jump up in arms when the topic is food for Africa or universal healthcare, but when it’s porn “don’t touch it”. I guess everyone is addicted to porn and any criticism is met with derision and humour. But I really really believe that it should be illegal, because it is prositituion and is not free speech. And it is immoral because it is violence against women. I am not Christian btw. I’m going to be viciouly attacked because I dare speak against their porn…

  13. No, I see how they is. This is just a cheap ploy by the DOJ suits to get the names, phone numbers, and addresses of all the actresses. Without having to hunt them out in bars and buy them drinks and lobster dinners for that kind of information. Very classy.

  14. But I really really believe that it should be illegal, because it is prositituion and is not free speech. And it is immoral because it is violence against women. I am not Christian btw. I’m going to be viciouly attacked because I dare speak against their porn…

    Is that an honest opinion, San Franciscan, or is that parody? I doesn’t seem like parody.

    In what way is prostitution/pornography violence against women? Is all sex violence against women, or just when they demand material compensation for engaging in sex?

  15. And it is immoral because it is violence against women.

    Real San Franciscan,

    I’m not sure what tittles you normally watch, but if you try googling “romance” or “couples” instead of “bdms” you’ll get more mainstream films.

  16. Well I’ll buy in part.

    Neither porn nor prostitution nor lap dancing, nor strip tease is speech.

    If porn is immoral, then one should avoid it rather than legislating against it.

  17. I think lap dances and strip teases are free speech. In each case the person is trying to communicate something to another person or audience. Free speech doesn’t have to be words (written or spoken). I might have to go see if if dance is a protected form of expression.

  18. Pornstar registration! The first thing the Nazis did.

    They’re take my pornstar from my cold, dead hands. If I had a pornstar.

    They came for the gonzo insertion specialists, and I did nothing. For I was not a gonzo insertion specialist.

  19. I think lap dances and strip teases are free speech.

    Batin’ for Liberty! I saw her at the club, just last night.

  20. I’m not sure what tittles you normally watch

    Your Freudian slip is showing.

  21. Now that you mention it, why *should* there be a de facto porn-movie exemption from the prostitution laws? Especially when there are so many new digital technologies which would avoid the need for human actors, thus bypassing the problem altogether.

    “The producers of adult movies do not pay the actors for having sex. They pay for the licensing rights to distribute the actors’ likenesses.”

    [Insert Bill Clinton joke here]

  22. Now that you mention it, why *should* there be a de facto porn-movie exemption from the prostitution laws?

    Why should prostitution be illegal? Please, someone tell me that someone besides me questions the premise that it’s okay to prevent people from having sex.

  23. Real San Franciscan | August 21, 2007, 7:15pm | #
    Well it’s funny how people jump up in arms when the topic is food for Africa or universal healthcare, but when it’s porn “don’t touch it”. I guess everyone is addicted to porn and any criticism is met with derision and humour. But I really really believe that it should be illegal, because it is prositituion and is not free speech. And it is immoral because it is violence against women. I am not Christian btw. I’m going to be viciouly attacked because I dare speak against their porn…

    I call TROLL.

    Note this pathetic attempt by some conservatarian troll to create the myth of the anti-porn liberal. Only RightWingNutFundies think porn should be illegal.

  24. If they’re all adults, prostitution should be legal. It’s odd that the Supreme Court thinks a woman can pay a male doctor to end a pregnancy 3 weeks after conception but would lock her up if she paid him for the conception itself.

  25. Given the longstanding tradition of legal compliance in the child porn industry, I don’t see how this can possibly fail to solve the problem.

    Because the real goal of the Act is not to deter child pornographers, but to deter adult porn industry. May be? I imagine that some of the adult wannabes will be deterred if they knew that the government has such a watch list.

    If porn is immoral, then one should avoid it rather than legislating against it.

    Exactly! And I think that is the only way to keep “morality” alive.

  26. “The identity of every performer is critical to determining and ensuring that no performer is a minor,” according to the new proposal.

    And how long will it be before a prosecutor uses the law to nail someone for making home movies?

  27. Neither porn nor prostitution nor lap dancing, nor strip tease is speech.

    Is oral sex speech?

  28. They’re just going to drive nudie movies to offshore locations. Just like Thomas Friedman said, the world we live in is now round and bouncy.

  29. There is a certainty that any law that is named after someone, especially a child, is going to be specifically tailored to trample Liberty. No law should ever have someone’s name attached to it. It is a sign of emotionalism and nothing ever good comes from it. Anyone proposing a “[insert victim]’s Law” needs to be publicly taken out and horsewhipped and then tarred and feathered and beaten with a sack of doorknobs.

    As for John Walsh he’s a repugnant piece of shit who has been riding his dead son’s corpse all the way to the bank. I can’t stand the ghoulish Liberty hating bastard.

  30. Lamar:

    I hope you are still around. Glad to have found you. I hope you got a chance to read my comment at:

    https://www.reason.com/blog/show/122067.html#769282

    (My apologies to others for the out-of-topic comment).

  31. Especially when there are so many new digital technologies which would avoid the need for human actors, thus bypassing the problem altogether.

    Spoken like someone who has never been on the production side of an animated movie.

  32. This has been a big topic of news in DarkLady’s Yahoo group. Apparently the paperwork is anticipated to be very demanding under the circumstances in which porn makers usually operate, including such things as Web cams and “secondary producers” — i.e. those who merely compile for re-release material produced by others. And it will be arbitrary to judge whose productions and performances are part of the porn industry and which part of the unaffected non-porn producers (including documentaries, candid shots, event photography), for the criterion will not be merely the contents of the production.

  33. “And it is immoral because it is violence against women.”
    This is along the same lines as the exploitation of women arguments. The fact that these individuals are willing participants doesn’t seem to stand in your way when you make these “arguments”.

  34. “Neither porn nor prostitution nor lap dancing, nor strip tease is speech.”

    Why aren’t they? Because no words are involved? I guess mimes better watch out and start covering their asses.

    Oh, and I just love how you throw prostitution in with lap dancing and strip teases. There is no difference in degree at all, is there?

  35. “Note this pathetic attempt by some conservatarian troll to create the myth of the anti-porn liberal. Only RightWingNutFundies think porn should be illegal”

    Ever heard of Andrea Dworkin, moron? Obviously not.

  36. Hello, Goldthwait, nice to see you here. Still waiting for your response regarding our earlier discussion.

  37. I’m going to be viciouly attacked because I dare speak against their porn…

    There no need to “viciouly” attack you. Pointing and laughing usually does the trick much more effectively.

  38. Why should prostitution be illegal? Please, someone tell me that someone besides me questions the premise that it’s okay to prevent people from having sex.

    It shouldn’t be. But if it is, it seems natural that the same law would cover the other people who have sex for money.

  39. I guess mimes better watch out and start covering their asses.

    Absolutely. Pass me the 12 Guage, Pa.

  40. how long will it be before a prosecutor uses the law to nail someone

    I thought the reverse was the problem.

  41. Ever heard of Andrea Dworkin, moron?

    If that’s her title, shouldn’t it be capitalized?

  42. Please, someone tell me that someone besides me questions the premise that it’s okay to prevent people from having sex.

    The only semi-good argument I know against legal prostitution is to point to the pimps and say “women are hurt, therefore it’s a bad thing.”

    The problem is that, just like the Drug War, prostitution is dangerous because it’s illegal. Hookers have to go to pimps for protection, because if they have a legitimate business dispute, the hookers can’t go to the police.

    It’s that damn law that keeps these pimps in business. Fuck, won’t people wake up?

  43. jh-

    Is oral sex speech?

    Only if she hears you mumbling while you’re “doing the alphabet”…

  44. iih,

    Constantly referring people to discussions you had with them in unrelated comment threads shows that you are a loser at teh internets.

  45. Johnny D.,

    What’s wrong with that?

  46. But actually you are right, I am a bit lousy with the internets.

  47. iih,

    Thanks for the link. I saw the comment. ?

  48. Lamar,

    I am glad you did.

    Sorry, again, Johnny D.!

  49. iih,

    I should probably be ignored, because I only got 2 hours of sleep and am one grumpy fart. Apologies for being a prick.

  50. Johnny D.,

    Not at all. Though, have some sleep.

  51. As to whether prostitution should continue to be criminalized, think about who benefits most from governmental prohibition of sale of alcohol. (I use the present tense because many local jurisdictions are still dry.)

    Prohibition on a national scale benefited miscreants such as Al Capone and the Five Families of New York. Local prohibition has made bootlegging and moonshining profitable.

    The human drive to copulate is strong enough that some were even willing to pay a hag like the late Andrea Dworkin for her favors. So long as there are willing buyers and willing sellers, people will find a way to make ends meet despite any governmental prohibition.

    The criminalization of prostitution keeps pimps from having to actually work for a living.

  52. The criminalization of prostitution keeps pimps from having to actually work for a living.

    Good point.

  53. You can make fun of my opinion, but what is funnier is that you all think the exact same thing…not an ounce of original thought.

    Porn is violence against women because in a male dominated society they are being raped for your viewing pleasure.

  54. Porn is violence against women because in a male dominated society they are being raped for your viewing pleasure.

    You don’t appear to understand the nuances of the word “raped.” Do you believe all sex is rape?

  55. Real SF:

    Is your bit of “original thought” the redefinition of rape to encompass all sexual activity? Then yeah, no original thought here (at least in the non-troll population).

  56. My definition of rape is when you are having sex when you don’t want to have sex. Pretty basic. BTW what do you mean by “troll”. Most of you are so courageous and insulting on here, but I doubt you would be that way if you were in front of me. Really.

  57. My definition of rape is when you are having sex when you don’t want to have sex.

    That definition leaves a lot of wiggle room. So if my wife doesn’t particularly feel like having sex when I get frisky, but she decides to go ahead with it anyway because it’s my birthday or something, I’ve raped her?

    Or do you mean “against your will” instead of “when you don’t want to”?

    Most of you are so courageous and insulting on here, but I doubt you would be that way if you were in front of me.

    Why? Are you a powerful wizard?

  58. [Beavis-Great Cornholio voice]Are you threatening me?[/Beavis-Great Cornholio voice]

    Is all porn “violence against women”? How about gay porn? In that case, there’s no women being “raped” or even involved, typically. How about some of the fetish stuff out there? Is a video of girls playing with balloons while giggling and wearing skimpy lingerie “violence against women”? What about BDSM stuff where a dominatrix beats the hell out of men? Is that “violence against women”?

    What about “by women- for women” porn? The market is smaller, but it exists. Is that stuff “violence against women”?

    Personally, I’m not aiming to “make fun of your opinion.” I just think you are using a faulty dictionary.

  59. Real SF:

    I, for example, am a very conservative person on many issues regarding morality (I believe that all extra-marital sexual relations are immoral and that porn has a negative effect on society), but I believe that I can not forcefully impose my definition of morality on others. In fact, my stance on the issue of porn and prostitution is that both should not be criminalized by the government since, as as is the case with alcohol prohibition, will cause more problems by going underground.

    If we really want to defend morality (defined differently among the people), the people ought to do it themselves on a grassroots basis so that, for example, the evils of prostitution are clearly identified and avoided by most of society. The government doing this on our behalf eliminates the grassroots social cultural involvement in eliminating such evils from society.

  60. Most of you are so courageous and insulting on here, but I doubt you would be that way if you were in front of me.

    If I was, would you punish me?

  61. Scooby,

    Overall porn is violence against women, but of of course there will be cases as you mentioned which are different and more grey. All I’m trying to do is express an opinion which isn’t main stream, but which I believe has truth. Usually the women that do porn are not the women that had all the opportunities to do something else. It’s the more marginalized women that will do porn. So if you take these realities into consideration and you take into account that these women are being f… in front of a camera…You can see how this can be considered violence. Legal and as mainstream as it may be.

  62. No. I can’t see how this can be considered violence, as long as there is no force or coercion involved.

    Don’t like it? Don’t buy it. Don’t participate in it’s making. You’re free to have your (IMO wrongheaded) opinions, but keep your hands to yourself.

    If, on the other hand, there is actual rape (in the definition that the rest of the world uses) involved in the making of porn, or in prostitution, then I’m all for stopping that.

  63. Usually the women that do porn are not the women that had all the opportunities to do something else.

    Then I truly believe that you do not know a lot about the porn industry. People (both male and female) drop out of college because what they can make in an hour equals what they make in an entire month after they graduate. To many of them it is a real job. I was stunned once when, I think it was either HBO or Show Time, interviewed a porn star for an hour and how strangely similar she sounded about her as many other working women (you know the usual: wake up, coffee, sometimes even kids, go tow work, not liking your colleagues, arguments, going back home). I completely dislike these women (and I truly felt sorry for her), but to them it is a very well paying job.

    Prostitution is a little different than the porn industry, and you are probably closer to reality if you meant prostitution in your passage (which you clearly not what you mean).

  64. “The Adam Walsh Child Safety and Protection Act”

    They’ve certainly got a lot of mileage out of one mother’s negligence, haven’t they?

    Her husband has even parlayed it into a personal fortune.

  65. if you take these realities into consideration and you take into account that these women are being f… in front of a camera…You can see how this can be considered violence.

    No. You can’t.

  66. Lamar sez:

    They’re just going to drive nudie movies to offshore locations. Just like Thomas Friedman said, the world we live in is now round and bouncy.

    It’s too late; all the good stuff is already made offshore. All U.S. stuff is way too fake.

    From the linky:

    Distributors of foreign pornography aren’t off the hook – they must still produce a copy of the foreign actor’s identification card.

    Dumbasses all around. Like Lamar pointed out, in a web-enabled world, there’s no need for localized distributors. Just go to the original producer’s web site.

  67. The camera is a magical device, but beware its power!

    Used carelessly, the camera can transform the sacred into the profane, the legal into the illegal, the beneficial into the toxic.

    Such a dangerous and powerful instrument, the camera is! Time for the State to begin to regulate their purchase, possession, and use!

  68. It looks like the internet is still only accessble to Dorks and Doofs.

  69. Real SF,

    And which would you be?

  70. Why do you call names? You wouldn’t do that if I was standing in front of you. I’m ten feet tall and carry a personal nuclear weapon!!!1!!ONE!

  71. lol…

    Yeah, that’s all that was left to say. I think it’s all been said.

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