Belgians Ban BBQ

OK, so it's not quite a ban. But there will be a tax on grilling in Wallonia, a French-speaking region of Belgium:

Experts said that between 50 and 100 grams of CO2, a so-called greenhouse gas, is emitted during barbequing. Beginning June 2007, residents of Wallonia will have to pay 20 euros for a grilling session.

But that's not the worst of it. If any wily Walloons are tempted to skip out on the 20 euro surcharge for their char-grilled wieners or steaks, they risk high-tech detection:

The local authorities plan to monitor compliance with the new tax legislation from helicopters, whose thermal sensors will detect burning grills.

To review: The state will be flying CO2-spewing helicopters over neighborhoods in search of telltale thermal images of CO2-spewing BBQ grills. Perhaps they can develop other, more efficient gadgets for their BBQ enforcer helicopters in the future, like smoke detectors or alarms that go off when in the presence of dumb novelty aprons.

UPDATE: Just foolin'. Details here. 

Comments

[VM]

ah, yes! The "taking a piss in the ocean" tactic!

what to expect from the toads of Europe?

(difference in cost per hour in helicopter to revenue raised from the bbq tax? and agreed: what's the GHG difference?)

aw fuckit. Warren! Warren! goddammit. Warren. Pour a double. Nehi. Grape.

[Chris S.]

So what are the helicopters running on?

[Dave W.]

1. There is a big difference between a tax and a ban. For example, i would be much happier with a tax on incandescent bulbs than a ban on them. Better to avoid conflating taxes and bans, even in jest, especially on these emerging carbon issues.

2. Depends upon whether there are additional helicopters, or whether the existing ones will fly further for enforcement. If the helicopters are already up there for other purposes, then adding a heat sensor probably will not make much additional margin of pollution.

[de stijl]

Reason #497 why the Phlegms are vastly superior to the Wallies.

Dirty, fat, Belgian bastards. Stupid sprouts. Waffle eaters. Home of pomme frites, my ass.

[VM]

de stijl 2: Rise of the Machines!

"hij is terug!!!!!"

[-]

I kinda figured something like this was coming. No one REALLY wants to reduce or ban greenhouse emissions; they just want to tax them. Global warming? Just another excuse to rob people. (Sorry motherfuckers.)

[ed]

And why ban cigarettes when so much cash is collected from taxing them?

[highnumber]

20 &#8364?!
Per grilling session?!
WTF?!

[Guy Montag]

Wow, doing California one better on their charcoal starter fluid ban eh?

[Passim]

Please, please, please, can any of you Gorites tell me why you are so determined to eliminate everything enjoyable from life? Clearly, the only possible reason for this tactic is to destroy human happiness.

Really, what is the reasoning behind this? Do you want humanity to live in caves, go naked, eat raw meat, die from simple infections, etc.?

PS: don't try destroying my fun. I'm moving to Tristan da Cunha, perhaps the last place on earth that could not give a damn about carbon credits, CO2 levels, and the enviro-communist desire to destroy decency.

[Thomas Paine\'s Goiter]

It seems to me that the solution is an underground grill with Co2 sequestered.

[z]

I love it. Like when 10,000 blow hards jet to Africa to lecture about how everyone else needs to cut out driving and flying around.

[Thomas Paine\'s Goiter]

Clearly, the only possible reason for this tactic is to destroy human happiness.

I'm grilling out tonight, just to counter these bastards.

I'm going to let the grill burn long after I'm done too.

[SmartGuy Peter McHollis]

Well, if your grill emits CO2 there is a cost involved that somebody has to pay. Why not the person enjoying the benefits of the grill instead of the rest of society?

[NoStar]

A co-worker said he heard this was an April Fools joke.

The helicopter surely would emit more greenhouse exhausts than 100 outdoor grills in an afternoon.

[smacky]

To review: The state will be flying CO2-spewing helicopters over neighborhoods in search of telltale thermal images of CO2-spewing BBQ grills.

"-" is right. This is just menacing. It is not even in the interests of society in any way (not that that would necessarily be an acceptable rationale). It is merely an excuse to menace people and eliminate any speck of happiness that may or may not still exist in their lives.

[smacky]

Anyway, the CO2 emitted from grills shouldn't count against total CO2 emissions. It should get a pass solely because it smells good.

[JKP]

Well, just so long as it's done for the children....

[uncle sam]

Maybe they can put heat sensors on the bear patrol planes.

[highnumber]

When I lived in a condo that had no central AC, but did have a balcony, I grilled every day in the summer. I have to imagine that there are some Walloons for whom indoor cooking in the summer is not a choice. I guess the microwave won't heat the place up too much. Enjoy your frozen meals, Wallonia!

And for those with central AC, doesn't the AC have to work harder when one is cooking a meal indoors in the summer? Have they sat down to compare the increased energy consumption from that?

I am officially crossing Belgium off the list of countries I may run to when GWB declares himself President for life.

NoStar,
I think your co-worker might have been right. RIA Novosti appears to be the only news service running this.

[Guy Montag]

Just remember: in the future weed will be the only thing left legal to burn.

I have been shopping for a more efficient motor for my 'hybrid' 1972 Dodge Charger. In the 440^2" selections I can go from 375 HP at around $2300US to 510 HP at around $6500US (add about $2000 and a few more horses for the uber-efficient Six-Pack carb. setup).

All this anti-earth talk is leaning me toward the pricier motors.

[Guy Montag]

NoStar,

BRUSSELS, April 3 (RIA Novosti) -

Aren't those jokes supposed to be confined to 1 April to count?

[SmartGuy Peter McHollis]

Having now read the story, yeah, I think it's April Fools as well.

In fact, it's pretty laughable to think that the government is actually going to have a fleet of helicoptors flying around looking for grills with their "thermal sensors". Maybe if they see one they'll destroy it with their proton torpedos?

[MikeP]

I'm going with April Fools joke...

A single human being puts out 900 grams of CO2 per day.

[MikeP]

...by breathing.

[highnumber]

Guy,

If this is a gag, I would guess that someone else issued the original story, and RIA Novosti picked it up just today.

[R C Dean]

There is a big difference between a tax and a ban.

In one of its very first decisions, the US Supreme Court observed (correctly) that the power to tax is the power to destroy.

If the grill is burning charcoal, I would have thought the CO2 emissions, in the long run, were nil, as it is merely releasing CO2 that is sequestered in wood only until that wood decomposes. Isn't this the argument for why bio-fuels are CO2-neutral?

If the grill is burning LP, is it really emitting much more CO2 than cooking on a gas range?

A single human being puts out 900 grams of CO2 per day.

How much methane?

[Stevo Darkly]

It seems to me that the solution is an underground grill with Co2 sequestered.

A possible simpler solution would be to grill under an awning that is insulated somehow -- maybe lined with aluminum foil. On the top side. Or an awning made of aluminized mylar, but I don't know how easy that is to obtained.

[Passim]

PLease let this be a joke. I am actually praying to be an April Fool.

[welfare queen]

From The Guardian's summary of the hilarious comedy stylings of the British press:

"The Mail on Sunday claimed councils were to start demanding ?5 to offset carbon emissions from barbecues, which would "allow sufficient barbecuing - as long as the cook is proficient - to create 20 steaks, or 40 if you like them rare." The carbon offsets were to be bought by a Glastonbury-based firm called Gases R Us."
http://tinyurl.com/2fxneu

[Guy Montag]

If this is a gag, I would guess that someone else issued the original story, and RIA Novosti picked it up just today.

I did not see a credit to another news source.

Be that as it may, I am still getting a 440 with a six-pack and hooking it up to a torqueflite 727, because I love the earth more than you. Oh, and I don't want to cut a hole in the floor pan.

[Thomas]

Passim wrote:
> Do you want humanity to live in caves, go
> naked, eat raw meat, die from simple
> infections, etc.?

Absolutely not. We just ask that you attempt, to the maximum degree possible, to leave the Earth in the same condition in which you came in to it. It is your duty to future generations, as it was for past generations to you.

[Dave W.]

In one of its very first decisions, the US Supreme Court observed (correctly) that the power to tax is the power to destroy.

And owning a gun is the power to murder, but owning or even using a gun is not the same as being a murderer.

Both the high 20 Euro figure for the tax and the helicopters thing make me think this is a joke.

If you really want to tax this stuff, then you keep it commensaurate with environmental impact and enforce it sensibly.

[Guy Montag]

If the grill is burning charcoal, I would have thought the CO2 emissions, in the long run, were nil, as it is merely releasing CO2 that is sequestered in wood only until that wood decomposes. Isn't this the argument for why bio-fuels are CO2-neutral?

Exactly! That is why my 'hybrids' are so good. When the organic alkalis that I use seep to the surface of the earth they are ignited by lightning and release the same minute amounts of CO2 as I do when I feed the trees.

[highnumber]

I did not see a credit to another news source.

Guy,
Not from a news wire, but from a press release probably.

[de stijl]

How much does a surplus Soviet-era man-portable surface-to-air missile go for?

[Thomas Paine\'s Goiter]

Absolutely not. We just ask that you attempt, to the maximum degree possible, to leave the Earth in the same condition in which you came in to it. It is your duty to future generations, as it was for past generations to you.

This is cute.

Which generation, exactly, left the earth as they found it?

[Alan Vanneman]

Let's hope the Belgies develop alarms that can accurarely distinguish between "dumb novelty aprons" and hip, witty, urbane novelty aprons, like the kind David Brooks wears.

[jw]

" We just ask that you attempt, to the maximum degree possible, to leave the Earth in the same condition in which you came in to it. It is your duty to future generations, as it was for past generations to you."

If each generation left everything as they found it, we would still be "living in caves". There would be no material wealth to pass on; the lifelong works of the preceeding generation would be wasted - would be for naught. There can be no progress without change.

[Warty]

And owning a gun is the power to murder

I would say it's the power to make a chunk of copper and lead go really fast.

[lunchstealer]

To review: The state will be flying CO2-spewing helicopters over neighborhoods in search of telltale thermal images of CO2-spewing BBQ grills.

OK, so the grill produces between 50 and 100 grams of CO2 per session. Most smallish turbine-driven helicopters use about 20 gallons of JET-A per hour. One gallon of JET-A emits ~2800 grams of CO2. In a 2.5 hour grill-patrol session, the helicopter would produce ~140,000g of CO2. Assuming that all the grillers they catch are at the high end of the scale, 100g per session. Each 2.5 hour helicopter flight would have to prevent 1,400 of grilling to break even for its own carbon emissions.

Add to that the fact that charcoal is a biomass fuel, not a fossil fuel, and is therefore carbon neutral (except for the carbon used in manufacturing and transportation). In the US, probably half of all grills burn charcoal (the rest burn fossil fuels like propane or natural gas), so now the helicopter has to prevent 2800 BBQ sessions per 2.5 hour flight.

Yup, this is the worst idea ever. Way to do basic fucking math, Belgium. No wonder your name is the foulest curse in the galaxy.

[Gilbert Martin]

"Which generation, exactly, left the earth as they found it?"

The one's who inhabited the earth in the alternate universe floating around in his head.

[Guy Montag]

Absolutely not. We just ask that you attempt, to the maximum degree possible, to leave the Earth in the same condition in which you came in to it. It is your duty to future generations, as it was for past generations to you.

Groovy! A 440 wedge and six-pack it is then! Need to de-tune it a little because I think they were using 413s with a little less hoursepower when I was born than what came along in the 1970s.

Looking forward to bringing back the tradition of changing oil over a storm drain in the city too!

[Graphite]

We just ask that you attempt, to the maximum degree possible, to leave the Earth in the same condition in which you came in to it. It is your duty to future generations, as it was for past generations to you.

Boy, they really screwed up then, what with all the skyscrapers and cities and highways and railroads and power lines I see everywhere.

DAMN YOU ANCESTORS! YOU BUILT IT UP! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!

[Guy Montag]

OK, so the grill produces between 50 and 100 grams of CO2 per session. Most smallish turbine-driven helicopters use about 20 gallons of JET-A per hour. One gallon of JET-A emits ~2800 grams of CO2. In a 2.5 hour grill-patrol session, the helicopter would produce ~140,000g of CO2. Assuming that all the grillers they catch are at the high end of the scale, 100g per session. Each 2.5 hour helicopter flight would have to prevent 1,400 of grilling to break even for its own carbon emissions.

Wait, a few months ago over at Ezra Klein's 'blog I was scolded by his readers for this 'dim' thinking. Somehow, tooling around in a jet is almost carbon neutral or negative. At least when you toss up Al Gore jetting around in one. They even have numbers to prove it.

[Graphite]

If this ban was happening in London I'm sure they could just use those cameras they have everywhere.

[BrianTerrel]

Absolutely not. We just ask that you attempt, to the maximum degree possible, to leave the Earth in the same condition in which you came in to it. It is your duty to future generations, as it was for past generations to you.

I, for one, am glad my ancestors were foolish enough to fail in this responsibility and "damaged" the earth by making it fit for human habitation. Paved roads, plentiful food, sanitation, and a distinct lack of large preditors are all bonuses in my book.

I'm concerned about global warming, but this "leave it like you found it" noise sounds like pseudo-religious environmentalist BS to me.

IMO our priorities should be to find ways to make the world's people better off first, and worry about adapting the gradual change from greenhouse emissions second.

[Dave W.]

here is the full analogy warty (in old fasshioned SAT format):

The power to tax is the power to destroy : owning a gun is the power to murder :: The power to tax is the power to collect money : owning a gun is the power to accelerate a bullet to a high speed

[Was fooled at first, too!]

but c'mon - it's a fun time to tee off on this sort of parody! just run with it!

Plus - Waloons! that one writes itself!

🙂

[lunchstealer]

Wait, a few months ago over at Ezra Klein's 'blog I was scolded by his readers for this 'dim' thinking. Somehow, tooling around in a jet is almost carbon neutral or negative. At least when you toss up Al Gore jetting around in one. They even have numbers to prove it.

Oh absolutely. For every hour Al Gore operates his jet, 1,739 backyard barbequers are slaughtered and composted to fertilize local organic farm coops, or rendered for fat to produce biodiesel. His last trip to Hilton Head removed almost one and a half tons of atmospheric CO2, just on the flight out.

[JimmyDaGeek]

If they can ban their citizens from grilling, what's to stop them from trying to ban grilling worldwide?? I suggest we preemptively strike them before they even think about taking our grills!!

[MikeP]

DAMN YOU ANCESTORS! YOU BUILT IT UP! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!

(Slow pull out, showing TAYLOR and NOVA on the beach. Across the water we slowly see an island appear. Then we pan up the pedestal and over the flowing robes, recently restored, of the Statue of Liberty. Final shot includes bright golden torch gleaming in the rising sun.

Fade out.)

[Thomas]

Thomas Paine's Goiter wrote:
> Which generation, exactly, left the earth as
> they found it?

Don't act stupid on purpose. Obviously man progresses technologically. It is better to live in a house than a cave. But that does not give us the right to irretrievably pollute the water, land, sky, and climate with our waste. Sustainability must be the goal at all times, otherwise you are creating a shithole for those who come after you. You could argue that we're already in one from those who came before us.

[Guy Montag]

But that does not give us the right to irretrievably pollute the water, land, sky, and climate with our waste.

Where have we done that? Even if you dump your motor oil on the ground there are microbes that eat the oil up.

[VM]

"it. It is your duty to future generations, as it was for past generations to you."

it was their duty? they thought of it as such? they codified it?

"sustainability must be the goal at all times, otherwise you are creating a shithole for those who come after you. You could argue that we're already in one from those who came before us."

we can? we are? it is?

unreal bullshit.

"Don't act stupid on purpose"

you shall get the treatments befitting of trolls. THE FILTER.

[jw]

"...otherwise you are creating a shithole for those who come after you. You could argue that we're already in one from those who came before us."

Then why would one want to leave it as one found it? The truth is that nothing is "irretrievably" polluted - it can always be cleaned up and has been at different times. If I were to leave the Earth as I found it, I would have to remove about half of the present population. Maybe I could start with the Earth Firsters and other enviro-Nazis and finish up with the Progressives and assorted One Worlders.

[de stijl]

Maybe I could start with the Earth Firsters and other enviro-Nazis and finish up with the Progressives and assorted One Worlders.

Nothing like a little eliminationism to spice up a thread!

[R C Dean]

Don't act stupid on purpose.

As you sow, so shall ye reap.

[lunchstealer]

If the grill is burning charcoal, I would have thought the CO2 emissions, in the long run, were nil, as it is merely releasing CO2 that is sequestered in wood only until that wood decomposes. Isn't this the argument for why bio-fuels are CO2-neutral?

Close, anyway. The reason it's carbon-neutral isn't because the CO2 isn't permanently removed, but because the CO2 was recently pulled out of the atmosphere. The carbon in biofuels is derived from atmospheric CO2 that has been broken down via photosynthesis.

So if you're using coal, petroleum, or natural gas, you're essentially adding new CO2 to the atmosphere, that you got from the ground. If you use biofuels, you pull the carbon you use directly from the atmosphere, so returning it to the atmosphere isn't a problem.

[MikeP]

So if you're using coal, petroleum, or natural gas, you're essentially adding new CO2 to the atmosphere, that you got from the ground. If you use biofuels, you pull the carbon you use directly from the atmosphere, so returning it to the atmosphere isn't a problem.

All true.

Nonetheless, it should be noted that it may well be cheaper to grow vegetation and bury it to offset the carbon released from fossil fuels rather than process the grown vegetation into biofuel.

[lunchstealer]

If I were to leave the Earth as I found it, I would have to remove about half of the present population. Maybe I could start with the Earth Firsters and other enviro-Nazis and finish up with the Progressives and assorted One Worlders.

Shit, if I were to leave the world the way I found it there'd still be a bunch of segregationists trying to maintain power, Nixon in the White House, and however many people dying every day in Vietnam. Not to mention that free-market ideas would still be openly scoffed at in the halls of government. Well, more openly scoffed at.

I'll pass.

[smartass sob]

"Shit, if I were to leave the world the way I found it"

No! No! No! That's just wrong! You mustn't shit - you have to leave the world as you found it. (yes, I know that 99% of its population was full of shit when you found it - still is.) 😉

[grizzly]

And it's not a tax on BBQ. It's a tax on grilling. I wish people would get this straight. BBQ is cooking at low temps in a moist environment. Grilling is hot/dry.

BTW...that thing on your back porch that you cook your steaks on...not a BBQ...its a grill. /rant 😉

[Guy Montag]

Nonetheless, it should be noted that it may well be cheaper to grow vegetation and bury it to offset the carbon released from fossil fuels rather than process the grown vegetation into biofuel.

Yea! And who says coal is non renewable? Not I.

[ChrisO]

I didn't know that the Walloons were a grilling people. My estimation of them just rose slightly. I just assumed they were comically named Frenchmen living in the wrong country.

[mike in ftw]

How come nobody has said: "They will get my meat thermometer when they pry it from my dead cold hands."

[Guy Montag]

Another acceptable-to-the-Left use of black helicopters!

[smacky]

How come nobody has said: "They will get my meat thermometer when they pry it from my dead cold hands."

Because that's not where we put thermometers around here. Now bend over.

[smacky]

69 on the bbq thread

[Dee]

Last I checked we all emitted CO2. Its the bullshit emissions that keep pouring out of these jackass's mouths that is poluting our air.

This is just ANOTHER way to get someone elses money. Just think at the rate they are going we will all soon be required for policing of ourselves and others as our main jobs. Yippee we all get to work for the feds, now we will get a real pension plan and health care.

Of course we won't need health care by then because the nannies will have freed us from all that is evil and harmful in the world. With the exception of themselves of course.

[Bright Eyes]

DAMN YOU ANCESTORS! YOU BUILT IT UP! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!

GET YOUR STINKING HANDS OF MY BARBEQUE, YOU DAMN, DIRTY BELGIANS!

[kevrob]

Hey, Guy. There are peat bogs the world over that, if we give them enough time, will eventually become coal, right?

I think it is important to remember that we have only one planet, and that we should not make it uninhabitable - at least until we can find or build a replacement for it. Even after we move all industry off-planet and are turning nearby solar systems into Dyson spheres, Terra would make a nice historical park.

Didn't the California Coastal Commission or an air-quality equivalent start to regulate outdoor cooking starting back in the 70s? I can't find a web-based cite for this vague memory, but another H&Rer mentioned a ban on lighter fluid.

The Belgian BBQ ban might be a joke, but collecting a fee from grillers seems like a highly inefficient plan. It would be smarter to incentivize the use of biomass by reducing the tax on charcoal briquettes, and increasing it on propane or other cooking gasses, in a revenue neutral manner, natch. That might piss off Henri de la Colline, but, I tell you what, it would be cheaper than running choppers around the Belgian skies.

Kevin

[s.m. koppelman]

This is almost certainly a prank story picked up by a Russian news agency, but it does a good job of pinning down what sort of "libertarian" Ms. Mangu-Ward is.

Namely, the sort who mocks the idea of Libertarian avatars like herself actually buying into the movement's claptrap about addressing "tragedy of the commons" by paying for one's externalities. It's not just the silly bit about using giant diesel helicopters to enforce barbecue fees that she objects to, but the very notion of an offset fee for something that does, after all, generate a measurable, demonstrable externality. Not over to what jurisdiction or constituency the imaginary fee goes to, or the best point in the production/consumption cycle to collect it, but the notion of a fee at all. In other words, it's "libertarianism" as a euphemism for might-makes-right feudalism. How novel.

[ChrisO]

The problem is that "externalities" are inherently subjective. What a treehugger sees as an externality, a developer sees as nothing at all. So it ultimately comes down to who wields the guns, eh?

[Guy Montag]

That might piss off Henri de la Colline, but, I tell you what, it would be cheaper than running choppers around the Belgian skies.

Well, if the helicopters are already going to be flying anyway, then it does not add any more CO2 to the atmosphere. Just like those jets that enviro-Kennedy boy flies around in. Arianna Huffington's too.

[MikeP]

but the very notion of an offset fee for something that does, after all, generate a measurable, demonstrable externality.

Did you miss the comment above that two people preparing, grilling, and eating their meal over the course of an hour emit more CO2 by breathing than the article claims the grill makes during the cooking of the meal?

Twenty ?'s?

[Warren]

KISS THE COOK

[Coase Theorem]

d'oh!

Warren! I misread what you wrote and saw a second "C" instead of the second "O".

/whoops Theorem

[-]

Speaking of "externalities" - would it be emitting an externality everytime some broad gets herself knocked up and emits another oxygen-sucking, co2-spewing little bastard into the world? Perhaps we should tax that, too. Oh, wait...

[libertreee]

"When I lived in a condo that had no central AC, but did have a balcony, I grilled every day in the summer. I have to imagine that there are some Walloons for whom indoor cooking in the summer is not a choice. I guess the microwave won't heat the place up too much. Enjoy your frozen meals, Wallonia!"

This post earlier today made an excellent point.

Because of Green taxes, most of Europe does not have air conditioning.

This may not seem such a big deal, except it was, actually. In 2003, the Heat Wave
in France, Germany and even So. England took over 35,000 lives, mostly the elderly.

Some blame global warming. Skeptics, myself included, believe it was the result
of a periodic artic jet stream anomoly that last occurred in 1972. It causes the jet
stream over Europe to essentially stagnate, and prevents cooler, moist air from the
Atlantic from passing over Western Europe, causing colder than normal temparatures
in the Baltic region.

In the US, without Green taxes, air conditioning is an affordable amenity that
is prevalent even in the colder Northeast and Great Lakes regions. Except for the
occasional public utility blackout, elderly deaths by heatstroke are a thing of the past
in the US.

The moral::wealthier is healthier, and the invisible hand once again trumps central
planning.

PS the French public health care system broke down completely that summer as
well.

[AlfromAlberta]

Co2 contribution to the THEORY of Greenhouse climate forcing = 3.618%
"Man-made" CO2 = 3.222% of total CO2
3.22% x 3.618% = 0.1166%
Hilarity over concern of C02 emissions ----- Priceless

[Math Guy]

"Experts said that between 50 and 100 grams of CO2"

100 grams is about a quater pound. These "experts" can't be right.

[MikeP]

Yea right, AlfromAlberta.

You expect me to believe Big Tar Sands?

[Lamar]

This is a result of the mayonaisse lobby. Egg-beating greasers.

[Again]

They'll pry my BBQ from my cold dead hands.

[highnumber]

This story has been picked up by a lot of media since this morning. Maybe it's no joke.
Then again, it's been picked up by a lot of American media. I can't find any English language EU or Belgium based media running it. Any Dutch or French translators here?

[In the know]

Belgium does not exist.

[J Golden Rockwell]

Chris S. asked "So what are the helicopters running on?"

Turbine engines run on hot air ("Suck, Squeeze, Bang and Blow").

There is no shortage of hot air in the environmental movement.

[J Golden Rockwell]

BTW, this is a good time to adjourn to YouTube and watch "Thanksgiving With the Kranzes" again.

This is the prefect example of why men are supposed to cook OUTSIDE.

[JePe]

This is definitely an aprilfools joke.
It was first published by RTL.be on the first of april.
Here the source:
http://www.rtl.be/article/71738.aspx?lg=1

[Goldwater Conservative]

Grilling is technically banned in Ohio. Last summer they instituted a new law saying you couldn't grill within 15 feet of a building, so those of us who live in apartments are fucked.

[Zoomie Junior]

Are you concerned about greenhouse gases?

Do your part to reduce CO2 emmisions...

Stop Exhaling!

[rudy ness]

Judge says, "why are you requesting a divorce sir?"
I replied, "Sir, she will no longer("Suck, Squeeze, Bang and Blow").

[cynical bastard]

"You expect me to believe Big Tar Sands?"

MikeP - on the off chance you are not being sarcastic, he's right on the money: Cunningham, Cunningham and Saigo 2007. Environmental Science: a Global Concern. 9th Ed. McGraw-Hill ISBN 0-07-2830089-1

See carbon cycle diagram on p. 68 (Fig. 3.20) and calculate for yourself.

[neil]

Good catch, JePe. Shame on KMW for running it on April 3rd without checking.

[VM]

no - shame on me for reacting without thinking.

[highnumber]

Shame on all of the American media for running with it.

[MikeP]

cynical bastard,

I am being sarcastic. I don't believe global warming is the threat it is made out to be, and I relish the use of Albertan tar sands to fuel the environmental engine of the future.

Nonetheless, showing what a small fraction of the carbon cycle fossil fuels comprise does not negate the fact that the sum of a bunch of small but positive contributions over centuries produces a large contribution.

It is not the yearly input due to mankind that is interesting. It is the rising ppm of CO2 that is interesting.

Arguably, if higher levels of CO2 in the atmosphere will cause catastrophic effects on humanity, we should do something to address them whether or not humans had anything to do with them. Surely if an asteroid were going to pummel the planet, we'd do something about it. Only the extreme anti-human environmentalists would say we shouldn't interfere because it's part of nature's plan.

Look, I, as much as any of you, wants the science on climate change to be wrong. But bringing up the same well understood and easily refuted arguments again and again is simply counterproductive.

The conversation has moved on. And because the "do something about global warming" side sees nothing contradicting them but easily refuted right-wing science deniers, they don't think they need to talk to anyone who disagrees with them. This shuts out the extremely powerful economic arguments against expensive measures to combat carbon emissions. That is where the global warming debate currently resides, and that is a debate those who believe in free markets can win.

[MikeP]

...fuel the environmental engine of the future...

Oops.

...economic engine...

[Bob]

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