Show-Me-State Stoopidity (Warm Beer Edition)

Come on you goddamned Missourians--stop electing dead men to the Senate already and protest this godawful policy suggestion from one of your legislators:

A state senator wants to force Missouri stores to sell warm beer. Under a bill by Sen. Bill Alter, grocery and convenience stores would risk losing their liquor licenses if they sold beer colder than 60 degrees. The intent is to cut down on drunken driving by making it less tempting to pop open a beer after leaving the store.

"The only reason why beer would need to be cold is so that it can be consumed right away," Alter, who has been a police offer for more than 20 years, said Thursday.

Here's the kicker:

He said the idea came from a fifth-grade student in Jefferson County who was participating in a program to teach elementary students about state government. He sought their suggestions for new laws and chose the cold beer ban from a list of the top three ideas.

I'll leave it to our kind, gentle, and surprisingly attractive readers to wonder what the other two top ideas might be…

Whole bit here.

Thanks to reader Bill Cook--enjoy a store-bought cold one (while you still can).

Comments

[The Wine Commonsewer]

law like that wouldn't work in Britain.

Can't imagine why somebody would run down to the likker store and expect to buy a cold sixer for the second half.

[April]

Never mind that you might want to drink it as soon as you get HOME, without waiting for several hours until it's good and cold.

Freaks.

[ChicagoTom]

Would Guiness have to be sold cold? Guiness is supposed to be consumed (whats the proper past tense of drink in this case? drunk?? drank??) warm right?

And come on, if you really need to pop open that beer in your car, would warm beer really be a deterrent?

And what about the homeless? When the homeless person has gathered enough spare change to buy a 40 or a tall boy, how the hell is he/she she supposed to chill it ?

[Evan]

Aww, shucks, let's see...

2) Make it illegal to sell guns that actually fire ammunition.

3) Make it illegal to sell glass blown flowers & scouring pads. Oh, wait...

Seriously---I would LOVE to know how many accidents are caused each year by folks who decided to pop open a beer on the way home from the 7-11. Hell, the whole idea of outlawing drinking alcohol while driving is horseshit in the first place. If I have a single beer, or even two, and I'm still under the legal limit, then WTF? That self-important asshat two cars over who is engulfed in her cellphone conversation poses more of a threat (it's been scientifically proven!) than me with my one or two beers in the cupholder.

Really, I just want to know from this idiot pol: show me the data that indicates how many drunk driving accidents are caused by this "menace".

And what about people, like me, who live mere minutes from the convenience store, and/or are walking home?

[Eryk Boston]

1. storing beer warm for an extended time damages the taste.

2. If you get a delivery of beer on a cold day do you have to wait for it to warm up before you can sell it?

[MP]

storing beer warm for an extended time damages the taste.

"warm" is relative. 55-65 degrees is fine for long term storage...but that's not "cold".

[ralphus]

1) Mandatory cootie screening for 4th grade girls.

2) Lower all amusment park "Mut Be This Tall to Ride" signs two inches.

[temujin334]

Add Alabama in with Missouri, they are working on doing away with sales of kegs to individuals (but in this case it's "for the children"):

http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=5755

The reason being that so many of those kegs end up serving underage drinkers.

In another article they note that the beer industry is behind the proposed law. I imagine they would be, I'd rather sell a gazillion bottles and cans in place of the few thousand kegs across the state each year.

[~L.]

As a homebrewer, I just wanted to clarify -- beer can be stored warm or cold with no adverse effects, but warming a beer up after it has previously been cold will skunk the heck out of your beer.

This is esp. bad for the beer Missouri is known for -- Budweiser is advertised as being stored and shipped cold. That born on date isn't worth crap if you end up skunking it with a stupid law. Not that I drink Bud, but don't most people from Missouri like it?

[Dave]

Maybe it should be mandatory that everyone buying alcohol be accompanied home by a police officer to make sure they don't drink it on the way. And they could make a law that all beer must taste terrible. Or maybe they could just ban alcohol sales all together. You know, "prohibit" them. In some sort of "prohibition".....

[Andy Volstead]

You know, "prohibit" them. In some sort of "prohibition".....

Innnnnnteresting. Tell me more.

[Russ 2000]

ChicagoTom,

Guiness says right on the can "serve cold". It even says it should be chilled for at least 3 hours.

[Eric the .5b]

I think he's thinking of the British beers that are supposed to be kept and served at room temperature.

[Jennifer]

Lawmakers who take professional advice from fifth-graders need to be impeached.

[Eric the .5b]

Agreed.

[keith]

Tilde L beat me to the homebrewer's point of view. I would have thought Bud would pwn the MO legislature, in the way DuPont p-owns Delaware.

[Mike Laursen]

Guess any Missourian dead set on drinking a cold Bud while driving can hook up one of these babies to his car:

http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/

[smacky]

What about this scenario: people who are having a party who run out of beer and go to the store to get more - driven by a designated driver! Fancy that. Parties would be completely ruined if warm beers were brought to replenish the depleting supply...it would take forever to chill them, and people would just go home after the initial supply was finished.

[pigwiggle]

Because, you know, drunk driving inclined alkies wont drink warm beer.

In Utah this is how real beer is sold. Lightweight beer can be sold in the grocery store (cold), while wine and anything over 3.5% is sold in the liquor store, warm of course. Nice to know my states legislators aren?t any more inspired than some snot-eater.

" who was participating in a program to teach elementary students about state government."

This aught to do it. Lesson; how to impose your arbitrary whim on your neighbors. An incredibly apt lesson in government.

[Timothy]

British beers aren't served at room temperature, but at cellar temperature, which is generally 50-60 degrees.

That said, the Brits are dead wrong about it. Beer should be could, brutally cold. Cold Cold Cold.

And I agree with Jennifer, but I'll take it a step farther, any official taking policy advice from elementary schoolers should be hanged for treason.

[Madog]

Asking kids to propse laws is a terrible idea. They're some of the worst statists around, until they hit the teen years.

They pretty much expect their every need to be catered to, their major decisions to be made for them, and to be told what's good and bad after all.

[smacky]

Oh yeah, let's see, the other two suggestions:

2.) Prosecution of any manufacturers of sugar cereal whose products cut the roof of your mouth.

3.) Time limits for individual use of specific playground equipment, under penalty of sitting at the back of the room and putting your head down on your desk when infringed.

[Stevo Darkly]

I feel compelled to rise to the defense of my homeland, the great state of Missouri.

First, as an libertarian of the anarchist persuasion, I see nothing wrong with electing a dead person to the legislature. In fact, I think death should be a prerequisite for holding office. This would slow the growth of government considerably.

Second, you obviously don't understand the process by which a bill becomes law in Missouri.

1) A concerned elementary school student sends a letter to a Missouri legislator, proposing a new law.

2) Vox papooses, vox dei. The legislator proposes the bill forthwith in the state senate. Or the state house of representatives. Or either one, I forget. One of those.

3) The bill, if passed by the house of representatives, proceeds to the senate for voting. Or vice versa. Whatever.

4) If the bill passes both state legislative houses, it is sent to Anheuser-Busch Companies for approval or veto.

5) If the brewery approves, the bill is sent to the governor for signature.

6) If the governor signs the bill, it becomes law.

Because the right to a cold, frosty A-B product is guaranteed in the state constitution ("The right to keep and drink beer shall not be infringed..."), there is no way this bill will get past Step 4. That's why no one is giving it a moment's thought.

[Stephen Macklin]

So we have now officially devolved to Government of the Children, by the Children and for the Children. What's next a law mandating double recess on really nice days?

[Yogi]

LOL.... this is pretty funny. I really wish they'd make the other two ideas public, because it may lend this guy some credibility. I'm sure he meant well by promising the 5th graders that he would introduce a law they came up with. Is there anyone in the legistlature taking it seriously? I hope not. I'm willing to bet this guy isn't even taking it seriously behind closed doors. If he inspired just one elementary school kid with this stunt, I don't mind it a bit. As long as no one takes it seriously, that is. If any of them actually are, I propose that they have to drink warm PBR for the rest of their life as punishment.

[rac]

And what about hard liquor? How hot do we have to make that before people wait to get home to drink it?

In North Florida, where I spent some time, a "roadie" was a necessity. I predict that if you take Americans' cold beer away from them, it will be the death knell for MADD.

[Timothy]

If he inspired just one elementary school kid with this stunt, I don't mind it a bit.

If he inspired any of them to be elected officials, I hope he gets cancer, being that he already is one.

[Number 6]

I am in Missouri, and happen to be the news editor of a bi-weekly paper here. Thanks for the tip. Too bad all of three people read my rag.

[bob]

"That said, the Brits are dead wrong about it. Beer should be could, brutally cold. Cold Cold Cold."

Serving beer brutally cold or in frosted mugs only serves to hide it's flavor. While the majority of beers made in Missouri should have their flavor masked, I tend to brew and serve beers that benefit from a serving temp of around 55 degrees.

[emme]

"Not that I drink Bud, but don't most people from Missouri like it?"

That's what I hear. I also hear they buy their tires and groceries from the same store.

[bubba]

This doesn't address the legislative moron, but who are all the idiots who don't buy enough beer for the game?

I suppose Texans get a pass, since you can't buy beer before noon on Sundays, and maybe you drank most of it Saturday night...

But I've seen those Miller ads. You've run out of beer. There are 2 or 3 guys watching a game that has at least another 1.5 hours. You buy a six pack? WTF?

[Crushinator]

The Senator asked the fifth graders to propose new laws. The basic assumption being that all the world's ills can be solved by government if enough laws are enacted. This is more sickening than the thought of warm beer.

If only a politician would ask schoolchildren to suggest which existing laws could be repealed! That would be an encouraging tale indeed.

My guesses as to the other two suggestions: 1)Lower the driving age to 12YO, 2) Establish a state funding program for indigent students who cannot afford the latest video games.

[Debbie]

Giggle...
The best part is that I know there is already a way around this. The brother of a friend has a liquor store in Oklahoma. I do not remember the exact circumstances, but there was some reason for a while that he was not allowed to sell the beer cold. However... once it was sold, it could obviously be chilled. He had some sort of freezer that would chill beer to drinking temperature in 2-3 minutes. He would sell the beer, then rent the chiller.

[downstater]

i guess i should support the homeland as well. i really don't think this bill is getting much attention because it seems to be getting run as an "awww, look at the kiddies getting all involved and stuff" kinda thing. i doubt this will ever happen...i hope.

anyway, it seems to me that a-b doesn't have as much sway in jeff city because a-b isn't a missouri icon as much as it is a st. louis icon and to support anything related to the city in state politics is bad, mmkay?

fwiw, i'm currently reviewing a pile of bills that will tighten down eminent domain and TIF abuses in the state - some of them actually look like sensible legislation.

a more interesting missouri story now regards a proposal to ban protesting at military funerals in the state - a la fred phelps.

[Timothy]

Serving beer brutally cold or in frosted mugs only serves to hide it's flavor. While the majority of beers made in Missouri should have their flavor masked, I tend to brew and serve beers that benefit from a serving temp of around 55 degrees.

Depends on the beer. I sort of enjoy the flavor transition as the beer warms, from 40 degrees up. Maybe I'm weird.

[downstater]

I also hear they buy their tires and groceries from the same store.

whooaaa! hang on there emme! it's not ALL like that here. in fact, there's a little joke that goes like this, (uppity city humor ahead)

what do you call missouri without stl & kc?

arkansas!

and for all those that think electing a dead guy is a bad idea, consider the alternative in that particular election.

[smacky]

If only a politician would ask schoolchildren to suggest which existing laws could be repealed! That would be an encouraging tale indeed.

Seriously. It seems to me that politicians are only programmed to be MakingLaw Bots. I'm not sure how this came about. Was it the term "lawmaker" that popularized the notion that laws always need to be created and never destroyed? We need to either come up with a new robot with a RepealLaw function, or else we need to figure out a way to train/reprogram politicians (a.k.a. "lawmakers"!) to also repeal items. It seems so simple, really. Maybe if someone coined a new term other than "lawmaker" and disseminated it into common parlance, perhaps Da Unwashed Masses would catch on. Better yet, come up with this term (something other than libertarian?) and designate these people as law destroyers. Ideally, the same person should be able to comprehend both tasks, but when has government ever been effecient?...*sigh*

[independent worm]

If only a politician would ask schoolchildren to suggest which existing laws could be repealed!

Amen!

[Barry P.]

The British don't serve beer "warm". They did during WWII because electricity was too valuable to waste on something like refrigeration of beer. But that was 60 years ago. Time to cast off the misapprehensions and stereotypes generated by mostly-dead GI's.

There is a range of recommended temperatures depending on the style of beer. Generally speaking, the "heavier" the beer, the warmer it should be. In any case, serving beer very cold will only serve to deaden the tastebuds and mask any flavor the beer might have. If you're drinking Budweiser, this masking is certainly beneficial. If you're pounding a few Coronas after working outside in 100 degree heat, then I'm sure you don't care about the taste. But if you actually like beer, and like tasting the flavors it has to offer, you don't want it with floating ice crystals. Serving a beer like Dogfish Head Raison d'Etre at 36 degrees is wasting so much of what it has to offer.

[ed]

A lot of this has to do with powerful liquor store lobbies working in several states who want to do whatever they can to get liquor and beer out of grocery stores, convenience stores, and drug stores.

In Indiana, they're trying to change the legal definition of "grocery store" to prevent liquor sales there. They're doing the "it's for the children" thing, but the liquor store people are behind it (along with the bible thumpers at the state house, of course).

[downstater]

number 6,

the post d-p covered this last week. what's your paper? i'll see if i can boost your circulation by 1.

[mediageek]

I've heard that this is (or judging by Debbie's post was) the case in Oklahoma.

I like St. Louis, but God, I'm glad I left the midwest.

[Isaac Bartram]

ChicagoTom:Would Guiness have to be sold cold? Guiness is supposed to be consumed (whats the proper past tense of drink in this case? drunk?? drank??) warm right?

Eric the .5b:I think he's thinking of the British beers that are supposed to be kept and served at room temperature.

Of course one needs to keep in mind the fact that the temperature in your average British room is about 38 degrees F.

[Eric the .5b]

A lot of this has to do with powerful liquor store lobbies working in several states who want to do whatever they can to get liquor and beer out of grocery stores, convenience stores, and drug stores.

Isn't it always? They're also big donors to anti-drug efforts.

[Eddy]

I can see the sale of CO2 fire extinguishers going through the roof. Ahh, the sweet smell of market opportunity.

I also hear they buy their tires and groceries from the same store.
The studded tires must be in the meat section and I'm guessing those monster paddle tires are next to the salad bar.

[DaveInBigD]

This is absolutely, without question, the worst idea since... well... probably the last bit of legislation proposed by a fifth grader.

There are any number of reasons to buy beer pre-cooled.

1 - Any time the beer will be going in a cooler. Suppose you have been tasked with providing beer for a long camping weekend. You will probably be buying more beer than you have room for in your fridge, unless you don't keep food in your fridge. So if your beer comes warm, your only option is to ice it down, and then keep replacing the ice as it melts, until the beer is cold. If your cooler isn't big enough to have a lot of ice in with your beer, you're hosed.

Actually, I just figured out who must be bankrolling this. The folks who sell bagged ice and styrofoam coolers. If you can't buy your beer pre-chilled, you'll be a lot more likely to buy a cheap cooler and 20lbs of ice.

Anyway, make the sunnovabitch drink a twelvepack of warm busch light on an eighty-degree day (don't want it to be hot enought that anything wet is refreshing by comparison) and see what he thinks then. Then impeach him anyway.

[johnl]

Stevo that was the post of the day.

Hasn't Mo already done more than its share to make beer taste bad?

I have heard of but not seen a process to chill champagne real fast that involves blasting the bottle with some kind if liquid. And there is the old ice bucket system.

[Isaac Bartram]

The British don't serve beer "warm".

Actually, they do. But it's only because Lucas makes their refrigerators.

[Shem]

Come on you goddamned Missourians--stop electing dead men to the Senate already

To be fair, Nick, if the choice were between a dead man and John Ashcroft, I don't see how there's any question.

[JD]

~L: As a homebrewer, I regret to have to disagree with you about the skunking thing. You're the first person I've ever heard say that temperature changes cause skunking, and other sources seem to disagree with you:

When light hits beer, it provides the energy necessary to drive a reaction that transforms the iso-alpha-acids into 3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol. ... This photochemical reaction is the only cause of skunked beer. Warm storage, while damaging to the flavor of beer, does not skunk it. Cycling the temperature of beer from warm to cold and back again is also not implicated. Storing beer in the dark is the simple way to prevent skunking.
(http://www.evansale.com/skunked_beer.html)

The rec.food.drink.beer FAQ seems to confirm this. Beer can go off/stale in other ways, but skunking is specific. (I've got some wheat homebrew around that is definitely past its drink-by date...)

[anomdebus]

JD beat me to it.
I have brewed a few lagers in my time and although I can arrange the lagering, once that it finished half of it needs to come out of the fridge for storage due to space concerns. (brew 10, serve 5) I have not experienced any skunkiness related to this.

[mediageek]

So, does Corona taste that awful out of the factory, or do their clear bottles cause it to give it that skunky taste?

[anomdebus]

mediageek,
Yes, it is the clear bottles. I can't say whether they expose the bottles to strong light before it leaves the factory, though.. 😛

[Mr. F. Le Mur]

He had some sort of freezer that would chill beer to drinking temperature in 2-3 minutes.

Make a water-salt slush and keep it in the freezer; stick bottles of beer in it as needed.

[Again]

"British beers aren't served at room temperature, but at cellar temperature, which is generally 50-60 degrees.

That said, the Brits are dead wrong about it. Beer should be could, brutally cold. Cold Cold Cold."

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail39.html

[~L.]

Yeah, I realize that skunking is the term for light-struck beer. I was just simplifying by just using the word most people know for beer with off flavors. However, chilling then rewarming beer can cause some pretty drastic off flavors -- the Siebel Institute has some cool experiments you can do to see the results for yourself. Feel free to let me know if you want more information about it.

[Kwix]

JohnL,
have heard of but not seen a process to chill champagne real fast that involves blasting the bottle with some kind if liquid. And there is the old ice bucket system
The Winn Dixie down the road from my place in Floriduh had a wine chiller. Basically just a recirculating bath of water attatched to a chiller. Water was probably around 35 degrees F. It would chill a bottle of wine from 70 to under 45 in about 5 minutes.

[Jason Sonenshein]

If I owned a beverage store in Kansas City, Kansas or East St. Louis, Illinois, I'd make a big contribution to Senator Alter's campaign.

[Serafina]

When I lived in Missouri, there was no open container law, so you could drink and drive as long as you weren't over the legal limit.

[D.A. Ridgely]

I suspect many lawmakers would be benefited by the advice of 5th graders. Then again, if the legal age for drinking were lowered to, say, eleven, the suggestion probably wouldn't have arisen in the first place. (Oh well, maybe not.)

For those of us who think Alcohol, Firearms & Tobacco would make a better name for a convenience store than a federal agency, the whole notion of requiring that convenience stores inconvenience their customers is predictably daft.

Should the red wine be chilled so discriminating imbibers need to wait for it to be warmed up? Back in my college era beer drinking days, it was certainly preferable but hardly necessary for beer to be above room temperature. I seriously doubt that for those who regularly drive while intoxicated the situation is much different.

[Eddy]

But it's only because Lucas makes their refrigerators.

Perhaps a fifth grader will come up with a law mandating Lucas wiring in new cars. That would certainly reduce drunk driving. Heck it would even cut automotive CO2 emissions to almost zero. Wait, fifth grade...Lucas...I'm starting to see a connection.

[Ruthless]

I'm having another Vietnam flashback. (Damn Agent Orange!)
With nothing better to do at the time, I carefully watched an helicopter resupply operation for the benefit of the likes of my battalion more or less marooned/isolated on the border between VN and Laos.
First to arrive were pallets of ammo for the heavier weapons we had, like the 82mm mortars. Next were a bunch of bullets for the M-16's. Next were the C-rations, which included cartons of cigarettes and Gillette safety razors.
Finally, if weather did not interfere, were pallets of warm--and I mean warm--beer. In cans. (Not to mention, it was not my preferred brand.)
Having a few pallets of warm beer within view and easy walking distance before the sun went down was almost as comforting as having Mom tuck you into your air mattress.

[Joseph Lucus]

The British don't serve beer "warm".

Comment by: Barry P. at January 20, 2006 05:30 PM

Actually, they do. But it's only because Lucas makes their refrigerators.

Comment by: Isaac Bartram at January 20, 2006 06:02 PM

Perhaps a fifth grader will come up with a law mandating Lucas wiring in new cars. That would certainly reduce drunk driving. Heck it would even cut automotive CO2 emissions to almost zero. Wait, fifth grade...Lucas...I'm starting to see a connection.

Comment by: Eddy at January 21, 2006 12:57 PM

Screw all of ya. My stuff works. The problem was the Brits don't know how to properly ground anything.

[Joseph Lucas]

Damn, I wish I had typed my name properly. I just installed a liquid cooling system on my computer. Now it can leak!!

[Katie!]

Man, sometimes I'm embarrassed of my home state.

But I swear, we're all not like that, and I guarantee this will not become law. KC and StL will not endorse bills by fifth-graders, and Missouri residents who live in the boonies will not want to give up their cold beer. Won't happen.

And I do NOT buy my groceries and tires at the same store. I shudder at the thought.

[dagny]

I think the main problem with this is that people actually drinking a cold beer while driving are probably a small portion of drunk drivers, the majority of whom are heading home after a night at the bar.

More legislation like this and folks will think "I'm not drunk driving! There's no liquor in my car!"

Sickening.