Notes From a Red State Film Festival in Hollywood

I spent a chunk of this weekend in Hollywood over at the American Film Renaissance, the self-described "first-ever film festival formed expressly to celebrate the timeless principles of individual freedom that made America great." Triumph of the individual? In Hollywood??

I kid. I liked all three features I saw: Rocky-for-seniors motorcycle biopic The World's Fastest Indian, Finnish WWII orphan-tearjerker Mother of Mine, and the inexplicably straight-to-DVD Back to the Future-meets-On the Road coming-of-age yarn from 2002, Interstate 60.

The main impression I took away from the weekend reinforces one I've long had -- that right-of-center or pro-WoT types who actually work in Hollywood (of whom I know several) seem much less agitated by the film industry's allegedly stifling anti-conservative sentiment than their right-leaning fans. Most of the Q&As I saw turned to Media Bias or Hollywood Conformity by question 2 at the latest; Gary Sinise, for one, (who was there to promote his worthwhile Operation Iraqi Children initiative) repeatedly passed up opportunities to damn his colleagues, or even to ascribe a blanket characterization of their politics.

There are certainly flaws with this analogy, but conservative activists' approach to Hollywood reminds me much of gay activists' approach to marriage -- they want desperately (and understandably) to have equal access to the institution, but are conflicted about how to maintain a separate identity on enemy territory. That tension played out in the festival's advertisements -- "Red State acting coach, Blue State industry," promised one. "You are not alone," cooed the Hollywood Congress of Republicans.

And the aggrieved-minority perception still works well as raw organizing fuel. "The Tide is turning," the beleaguered Sisypheans at ModernConservative.com announced. Who knows? Maybe one day the conservative movement may rise again.

Back in October, Jesse Walker shared his lessons from another conservative film festival.

Comments

[David]

These people seem to have a hard time distinguishing the liberal leanings of filmmakers and stars with the films they produce. Can anyone name a really big budget movie that was overly "liberal" in tone or message?

[Jason Ligon]

I don't like the flavor these increasingly desperate sounding cries to circle-the-wagons have had since the last election. I've always believed that if you want to know what motivates the bulk of a coalition, all you need to do is watch the rhetoric that makes national headlines.

What seems to be the common denominator from the right these days is the notion that People like YOU are Being Squeezed Out of America. It is all about the homosexual Agenda, the anti war Agenda, the Secularist Agenda, and so on. Your way of life will be over soon!

Conspicuously absent are the oldie but goodie "Big government liberals want all your money," or "Social engineering isn't what we pay government to do," or maybe "They are out to destroy business, one regulation at a time!"

Resolved: Rick Santorum is a mainstream member of the right coalition. We are doomed in the forseeable future to left and right coalitions dominated by class warfare and culture warfare respectively. These were not aberrations, but actually reflect what moves most people to vote.

[Matt Welch]

Can anyone name a really big budget movie that was overly "liberal" in tone or message?

I guess it depends on what you mean by "really big budget movie," but in general, Hell Yes. Wasn't the last Star Wars supposed to be a hit on George Bush? Did you ever see, I dunno, "Meet the Fokkers" (uptight CIA Red state patriarch taught the virtues of Blue state free love by Barbra freakin' Streisand?). And I hear there have been a few movies about the heroic efforts of class-action trial lawyers....

[Dan]

The arts are supposed to challenge conventional wisdom and push the boundries of human experience.

This is why conservatives never have and never will be good at them.

[theCoach]

Did you see 'Meet the Fokkers'?

Upstanding CIA red state patriarch promotes traditional values among freaky, 60s hippies played by Barbra freakin' Streisand?

Do you really think everyone is supposed to identify with the Dustin Hoffman character (as opposed, actually, to the virtuous red state matriarch)?

[Jason Ligon]

"And I hear there have been a few movies about the heroic efforts of class-action trial lawyers...."

Egad. The lowest form of movie. Worse even that "John Q" message movies. At least the latter is broadly based on an ideological commitment to socialized medicine rather than a direct stroking of high dollar constituents.

[John]

Can anyone name a really big budget movie that was overly "liberal" in tone or message?

The Day After Tommorow global warming is real and is going to destroy civilization unless we stop the evil capitalist system from causing it.

Syriana - The usual oil companies are evil mantra

The Contender - Evil Republican Senators unfairly attack innocent feminist vice presidential nominee

Erin Brocovich - typical crusading trial lawyers versus evil industry story

Muinich - tale of the moral equivilence between terrorists and the people who fight them

Cyder House Rules - The hero of the story is an abortionist

American Beauty - All suburbanites are immoral fakes

The Mancurian Candidate (remake) - took classic movie and made it into typical tale of evil corporate America.

Anything by Olliver Stone, but granted Stone is such a whackjob, it is not really fair to tag even Hollywood with responsibilty for him.

The list is actually a lot shorter than you would think it is. Hollywood is looking to make a profit and political movies don't ussually sell well. What is more interesting is the absence of movies with a conservative bent, even though there is a huge audience for them and the ones that are made, especially patriotic ones, tend to do very well at the box office. I really well made terrorism movie with (gasp) someone besides corporations or neo Nazis white guys as the enemy and perhaps even (double gasp) radical muslims as the enemy would make a fortune at the box office, but Hollywood would never stand up to the likes of CARE and make it, despite its reality.

[John]

The arts are supposed to challenge conventional wisdom and push the boundries of human experience.

This is why conservatives never have and never will be good at them.

I don't think that is true so much anymore because liberalism is the conventional wisdom. When is the last time liberals made any decent satire? It has been a long time. All of the best satire in the last ten years has been things like South Park and the Simpsons making fun of liberals and PC mores. The best art is iconoclastic and considering how dogmatic, interest driven and narrowminded liberals have become, its pretty hard to be an iconoclast and be a liberal. Sure, you can toe the line and pretend that making a movie like Cyder House Rules where an abortionist is the hero is couragous, but who are you kidding? It may have been a good movie (I think it was) but it took about as much courage to make it as it does to denounce the Republicans as racist at a NAACP meeting.

[AnonCowherd]

really well made terrorism movie with (gasp) someone besides corporations or neo Nazis white guys as the enemy and perhaps even (double gasp) radical muslims as the enemy

Team America?

[Number 6]

John- You're under the impression that the Simpsons are conservative? I can only attribute that notion to selective perception. Like South Park, the Simpsons is (was) funny because it savages everyone.

[Number 6]

A really well made terrorism movie with (gasp) someone besides corporations or neo Nazis white guys as the enemy and perhaps even (double gasp) radical muslims as the enemy would make a fortune at the box office, but Hollywood would never stand up to the likes of CARE and make it, despite its reality.

Why not go all the way and make a Triumph of the Will for the WOT?

[Phil]

Muinich - tale of the moral equivilence between terrorists and the people who fight them

Of course it wasn't, but I don't expect the likes of you to be able to figure it out.

I really well made terrorism movie with (gasp) someone besides corporations or neo Nazis white guys as the enemy and perhaps even (double gasp) radical muslims as the enemy would make a fortune at the box office,

They had one. It was called The Siege. It sucked. There was also True Lies, which was better, but is generally considered James Cameron's worst movie.

Anyone who has listened to any of the commentaries on The Simpsons DVDs would realize that John, as usual, has his head about 3/4 of the way up his rectum on that count.

[mediageek]

"The arts are supposed to challenge conventional wisdom and push the boundries of human experience."

I'm just going to assume you haven't been to a movie in awhile.

Also, I can't be the only one who's noticed that every single Jerry Bruckheimer/Michael Bay movie enthusiastically plays to neocons?

[Matt Welch]

There was also True Lies, which was better, but is generally considered James Cameron's worst movie.

True Lies was Cameron's best, by far.

[John]

Anyone who has enough time to listen to the commentaries on the Simpsons DVDs needs to get out more. The point is that they Simpsons, when they are funny, which less often than you would think when you consider the fact that it has been on for 16 years now, is that yes, it does lampoon everyone and is not a particularly liberal or conservative show. I repeat give me one good piece of overtly liberal satire done in the last 20 years? There hasn't been any because liberals have lost thier sense of humor.

Phil,

As far as Munich goes, it does percisely that. It never shows the crimes that these people committed, it only seemingly innocent Arabs living peaceful lives being murdered by Israelis. It is the Sister Perjohn view of the death penality. Trot some seemingly nice guy out who is about to be executed and totally ignore and belittle the crimes that got him there. Figures the likes of you wouldn't see that.

Why not go all the way and make a Triumph of the Will for the WOT

Yeah I know number 6, muslims have never committed any acts of terror and to make a movie portraying them as such is equivilent to Triumph of the Will. I guess you would be one of the ones who thinks that 9-11 was perpetraited by the Isrealis, along with Bali and Madrid as well, because Muslims would never do anything like that and even if they did the people are too stupid to be told the truth about it.

[Dan]

What is more interesting is the absence of movies with a conservative bent

It sort of depends on how you define ?conservative bent?.

If you count having a straight, white, macho hero defeating bad guys with an onslaught of violence, then you?ve got quite a few. Or any of the numerous police dramas, where the police always get their man and he?s always guilty. Or all the Tom Clancy/pro-military type films, and so forth.

[John]

Mitch,

In the movies all decent right thinking people are Democrats and all Republicans are at worst horrible monsters or at best well meaning but confused dopes who need to be shown the proper way. I can't think of one movie that has ever shown a outwardly conservative character in a positive light.

[Umbriel]

Phil --

True Lies would be Cameron's 2nd worst feature film -- Remember he started with "Piranha II: The Spawning"

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000116/

[John]

Dan,

Good point on the cop movies. Hollywood has made a great living off of movies like Dirty Harry and Death Wish. That is probably the best example of conservative movies. I honestly haven't seen any of the Clancy movies since Hunt for Red October, which was pretty apolitical really. Even those are changed to meet PC mores. The villians in Sum of All Fears were changed from Arabs to keep from offending people like Number 9's sensitive ears.

[Umbriel]

John --

Check out Michael Gross and Reba McIntyre's characters in Tremors

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100814/

[John]

Umbriel,

I love that movie and those characters in particular. But even they are portrayed as kind of exotic whackjobs. It is a great satire of the typical gun nut.

[David]

Did you ever see, I dunno, "Meet the Fokkers" (uptight CIA Red state patriarch taught the virtues of Blue state free love by Barbra freakin' Streisand?).

Mercifully, no. My girlfriend is in agreement with my "Ben Stiller sucks the laughter out of every scene he's in" stance. And Star Wars shouldn't count, as George Lucas is technically an independent filmmaker.

I guess I shoud have phrased my initial question better. I meant the movies that Hollywood spends the most money to make. Looking at that list, I see Superhero films (you'll be hard-pressed to find more conservative characters than Superman or Batman), kids movies(usually have a pretty black/white morality, although I suppose that talking animals theoretically promote PETA-type activism), Epics (Lord of the Rings, Narnia, Troy, Gladiator, etc. which are all pretty conservative tales). The rest on the list is standard action movies with a cop/soldier/fireman hero saving the day and getting the girl.

One thing I forgot was how difficult to define the concepts of liberalism/conservatism really are. I suppose one could look at any film, find some politics they don't agree with, and classify it accordingly.

[Eric the .5b]

"I guess we can't make fun of their lifestyle, anymore."

Of course, in the sequel (which I saw part of), McIntyre's character left Gross's due to his depression after the fall of the USSR...which would be a bit of broad anti-conservative satire.

[Dan]

I repeat give me one good piece of overtly liberal satire done in the last 20 years?

While it?s doubtful that you?ll consider any of these ?good?, I submit to you:

Fahrenheit 9/11 (along with Moore?s other stuff)
The Daily Show
Bob Roberts
The Onion
Dilbert
Boondocks
Undercover Brother

[Umbriel]

John --

They're certainly played for laughs, but not unsympathetically in the end -- as evidenced by the line quoted by Eric the .5b

[Don Mynack]

How many people here have actually seen Triumph of the Will? Not being condescending, just genuinely curious.

I am asking because if you've seen it, you know it's stunningly good filmmaking, morally repugnant message aside.

[Jamie Kelly]

"Can anyone name a really big budget movie that was overly "liberal" in tone or message?"

Are you serious?
1. Field of Dreams: Hippie dreamer spurns evil banker brother-in-law and brings back idealistic young ballplayer wrongfully railroaded by Big Baseball.
2. The Birdcage: Gay dad makes conservative Republican lawmaker look like a hideously bigoted asshole (I agree with the premise, BTW).
3. Any -- ANY -- John Grisham flick.
4. Two words: "Erin Brokovich."

Uhh, there's just too much. Too much. Can't go on. Brain will explode.

[mitch]

Dan,

Is Dilbert really "liberal?" I recall a piece in the "Village Voice," many years ago, in which some genius at the Voice moaned that Dilbert didn't attack capitalism, but attacked incompetent members of the firm, people who made capitalism less efficient, so that "Dilbert" actually was supporting capitalism.

David,

Comics before 1970 or 1968 or whatever may have been right-wing, with The Hulk, Spider Man, and especially Iron Man, fighting the Soviets, but I think after that there is at least as much liberalism/leftism in superhero fiction. For extreme examples, don't forget the Superman movie that Reeves himself produced, the one with Nuclear Man. And Captain Planet.

[mediageek]

"Anyone who has enough time to listen to the commentaries on the Simpsons DVDs needs to get out more."

I stopped reading right there. John, you may as well have posted "I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, so I'm just going to make fun of the people who do."

[wellfellow]

I'd be curious to see a Hollywood movie where the antogonist was not either an example of corporate America, or English. And naming True Lies doesn't count, how long ago did that come out? I was utterly shocked when I watched Ghostbusters the other day and the villian was the EPA! Fat chance you'll see that happen ever again.

Number 6, you're Triumph of Will comment doesn't even make sense. Unless of course every movie with a villian is like that.

"have to save a Senior's Center from being torn down by a developer."

That's great! The villian would have to be evil expansionist Wallmart.

And The Day After Tomorrow? Brilliant!

Yeah, Hollywood filmaking isn't leftist at all. Carry on.

[mediageek]

I'll note that Michael Gross' portrayal of Burt Gummer has made him an underground celebrity among gun enthusiasts.

But I suspect that ultimately it's the same sort of thing that happened with Archie Bunker: a character who is supposed to be a satirical stereotype of a particular culture ends up getting adopted by that culture as a positive example of it.

[wellfellow]

You know, pretending that Hollywood isn't obviously leftist damages credibilty. Just a little. Now, I don't want any self-consciously conservative movies, that'd be terrible, but who's kidding whom?

"Can anyone name a really big budget movie that was overly "liberal" in tone or message?"

Amazing.

[acc]

"But I suspect that ultimately it's the same sort of thing that happened with Archie Bunker: a character who is supposed to be a satirical stereotype of a particular culture ends up getting adopted by that culture as a positive example of it"

Huh? That never happened with Archie Bunker. What are you talking about? Please point me in the direction of bigots or racists or whatever holding up Archie Bunker as a positive icon.

[mediageek]

"Please point me in the direction of bigots or racists or whatever holding up Archie Bunker as a positive icon."

Archie Bunker was idolized by lots of people on the right in his day.

Such was the name recognition and societal influence of the Bunker character that by 1972 commentators were discussing the "Archie Bunker vote" (i.e., the voting bloc comprised of urban, white, working-class men) in that year's presidential election; in the same year, there was a not insignficant parody election campaign, complete with T-shirts and bumper stickers, advocating "Archie Bunker for President."

I've also seen a couple of times where Carroll O'Connor, who was an avowed Democrat, was rather non-plussed at the number of people who thought Archie was great.

[Eric the .5b]

Comics before 1970 or 1968 or whatever may have been right-wing, with The Hulk, Spider Man, and especially Iron Man, fighting the Soviets

What was so "right-wing" about fighting the Soviets? Liberals were into that, to.

but I think after that there is at least as much liberalism/leftism in superhero fiction.

Yup. The Green Arrow is explicitly a pretty far leftist (occasionally called an outright communist), if still a decent, patriotic guy. Every incarnation of the X-Men uses a period-appropriate allegory of the struggle of oppressed minorities.

And a lot of modern comic writers (and some of the best of them in particular) simply are liberals or leftists. Just how it goes - genre in general fiction attracts a lot of "anti-conservative" attitudes in the broadest sense, and that's rarely libertarian, per se.

[mediageek]

"Please point me in the direction of bigots or racists or whatever holding up Archie Bunker as a positive icon."

Archie Bunker was idolized by lots of people on the right in his day.

Such was the name recognition and societal influence of the Bunker character that by 1972 commentators were discussing the "Archie Bunker vote" (i.e., the voting bloc comprised of urban, white, working-class men) in that year's presidential election; in the same year, there was a not insignficant parody election campaign, complete with T-shirts and bumper stickers, advocating "Archie Bunker for President."

I've also seen a couple of times where Carroll O'Connor, who was an avowed Democrat, was rather non-plussed at the number of people who thought Archie was great.

[Eric the .5b]

Sorry, meant to type "genre fiction in general".

[Warren]

Can anyone name a really big budget movie that was overly "liberal" in tone or message?

Ugh. Let's see what's playing now?

Brokeback Mountain
Glory Road
Good Night and Good Luck
North Country
Syriana

[rdkraus]

The Constant Gardener - evil drug companies experiment on poor blacks in Africa, let some of them die (and hide the info), but who cares, as long as our profits go UP UP UP !!!!!!

[downstater]

Jamie Kelly,

man, field of dreams was one of the most conservative movies EVER!

i mean, there's even a famous speech in it about how all once was good and how we can go back to the good old days of baseball and apple pie.

do you seriously think that movie was about a hippie spurning an evil banker to stick it to "big baseball"?

this thread screams persecution complex!

[Eric the .5b]

Carroll O'Connor, who was an avowed Democrat, was rather non-plussed at the number of people who thought Archie was great.

Now, I haven't seen the show in years, but from what I remember, Archie wasn't a bad guy. He was crude, ignorant, and prejudiced, but he didn't hate anyone. At least once, his attitudes got contrasted with real hatred. (In the episode I'm thinking of, he's horrified to be mistaken for a Jew - and gets very amusingly taunted for his reaction - but even more horrified that neo-Nazis have mistaken him for a Jew. He's quite comfortable with - and readily sympathetic to - a guy from a Jewish vigilante group who comes to protect him.)

As for being sympathetic...he stood his ground and sometimes deflated his know-it-all, lecturing, unemployed, liberal son-in-law. "Meathead" wasn't a universally sympathetic character. Some conservatives I've known seemed to consider the guy an archetypical liberal.

[acc]

mediageek,

commentors labeling a group something is not the same as that group adopting the name for themselves, which is what you claim happened.

And (I'm embarrassed to even have to explain this to someone), outside of t-shirts for actual presidential candidates; t-shirts that say _________ for President are usually jokes.

For example, this shirt:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6029105195&category=20910&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1

is not intended to actually encourage registered voters to elect Gumby.

[mediageek]

acc-

Let me put it to you this way:

My parents, who are staunch conservatives* still wax nostalgically about "All in the Family."

Now, granted, the show was cancelled while I was still in shortpants, but I've seen more than one conservative voice such an opinion about ol' Archie Bunker.

*But not racist by any stretch.

[coarsetad]

If you can only enjoy entertainment that reinforces your political view, then I feel sorry for your closed mind.
Politically I find the WonT to be utterly despicable. Yet my favorite show is 24. And if that isnt isnt pro-neocon, Im not sure what is.

[downstater]

If you can only enjoy entertainment that reinforces your political view, then I feel sorry for your closed mind.

my sentiments exactly.

furthermore, i think many folks are identifying political influences and inferences that aren't really there. someone who wants to find a fault will find one if they are determined enough. it's like when people who travel abroad expecting the locals to be rude and are vigilantly on the lookout for rudeness expressed toward them inevitably reporting back that the locals were indeed rude to them because a waiter wasn't quite as amiable as they thought he should have been.

sometimes it's just a movie, y'know?

[Matt Welch]

field of dreams was one of the most conservative movies EVER!

A friend and I once spent 16 consecutive hours in a bar, trying to pinpoint exactly When It All Went Horribly Wrong, and we finally concluded it was with the release of Field of Dreams. Among its many cynical messages is that if you peddle absolutely BS nostalgia, you'll get a line of suckers stretching out for miles willing to pay $6 for the thrill. (I imagine during the inevitable Jake Glynenhall remake, the ticket price will be bumped up to $8...)

[John]

All in the Family completely made fun of Archie Bunker and his views. Granted, he wasn't a monster, but he was a pretty big and sometimes funny dope. He held conservative view but did so in a way that made him look racists and narrow-minded. If you were not a liberal on that show, you were Archie Bunker. There was no such thing as a thoughtful conservative in the world of Norman Lear. I always think of Archie Bunker when I hear boomers waxing philosophical about the "greatest generation". Yeah, you know what you really thought of the people of the generation when they were young enough to matter in society and we saw it in Archie Bunker. Now that they are too old to matter and your consciences are bothering you, they are the greatest generation.

Dan,

I will give you the Daily Show, although its not nearly as funny as claims to be. But it is funny sometimes and completely over the top liberal. Stewart is really kind of a nasty fellow but he is funny. I don't see how you can put anything done by Moore as funny or satire. The guy who writes Dilbert is very conservative from the interviews I have read. The Onion is very centric. It lampoons ignorant leftists just as much or more than it does conservatives. One the best articles I have ever read in there was "Where the Fuck is Diane with my Fair Trade Coffee" making fun of your typical uptight upper middle class liberal yuppie. It was great.

[Eric the .5b]

Yeah, you know what you really thought of the people of the generation when they were young enough to matter in society and we saw it in Archie Bunker.

On the other hand, that means they (at least, the writers) saw themselves as Meathead. The more I think about that, the more that amuses me.

[John]

Good point Eric, I never thought of that. It really is true, they did see themselves as Meathead and the more I think about it the more it amuses me too.

[Stevo Darkly]

Oh, and another thing:

The main impression I took away from the weekend reinforces one I've long had -- that right-of-center or pro-WoT types who actually work in Hollywood (of whom I know several) seem much less agitated by the film industry's allegedly stifling anti-conservative sentiment than their right-leaning fans.... Gary Sinise, for one... repeatedly passed up opportunities to damn his colleagues, or even to ascribe a blanket characterization of their politics.

I'm guessing one or more of the following might be true.

1) Sinise doesn't really feel all that stifled.

2) Sinise is too classy a guy to criticize the politics of his friends and colleagues.

3) There might be some other reason why Sinise declines to say too loudly, "Most of the people I am likely to work with, or who might be in a position to hire me, are blinkered, bigoted lefty loons." I'm just saying.

[John]

Stevo,

I remember listening to an interview with Rob Reiner in about 1993. He was saying how it wasn't good to degerate the government and that the government could do good things and that Hollywood need to make some films to reaffirm people's faith in the government. Hmm, I wonder if his new found love of government had anything to do with the election of the first Democratic Presidential Administration in 12 years the previous fall? Maybe? Interestingly enough come say November 2000, his interest in reaffirming people's faith in government fell off a bit. I wonder why?

[Stevo Darkly]

OK, one last thing:

I clicked on the official Web site of The World's Fastest Indian, and I'm sure it's a fine film, but it only reinforced my opinion that official Web sites for movies are, almost without a single exception, among the most suckily designed Web sites on the WWW.

Again, almost without a single exception, they suck because of all the following lock-step reasons:

1) Visually they are very pretty and impressive, but

2) Are difficult to read, and

3) Most of all, they are saddled with the most show-offy, self-consciously artistic, painfully belabored and cumbersome navigation systems that any Web "designer" could ever devise.

Yes, I'm in a bit of a ranty mood.

[Mo]

John,
So when H&R makes fun of loony libertarians it is no longer a libertarian magazine. Just because the Simpsons, Daily Show, Boondocks, the Onion, etc. make fun of wacky liberals does not mean they are not liberal comedies.

Regarding Reiner's comments about government, don't you think the same is true with regards to conservatives' new-found love for the government since Bush's election in 2000?

P.S. The Daily Show didn't get worse because of his liberalism, it got worse once it became vastly more popular and John Stewart got full of himself. The early John Stewart years until about 2002 were comedic gold. I still like him better than Kilborn in that post.

[Phil]

Can anyone name a really big budget movie that was overly "liberal" in tone or message? . . . Ugh. Let's see what's playing now? . . . Glory Road

Ah, that loony-left message, "Black kids should be allowed to play basketball with and against white kids." What a bunch of fucking wingnuts. Coocoo! Coocoo!

As far as Munich goes, it does percisely that.

Well, no, it doesn't.

It never shows the crimes that these people committed,

You clearly have not see the fucking movie. Not even a clip.

it only seemingly innocent Arabs living peaceful lives being murdered by Israelis.

No.

It is the Sister Perjohn view of the death penality. Trot some seemingly nice guy out who is about to be executed and totally ignore and belittle the crimes that got him there. Figures the likes of you wouldn't see that.

Nope, you definitely haven't seen it. And you clearly have neither seen nor read Dead Man Walking, either, if you think Helen Prejean ignored or belittled the crimes of the men involved in the stories she told.

[David McElroy]

For the person wanting to know which big-budget movies have had a liberal message, check out, "Fun with Dick and Jane," if you can stand a really unfunny movie. It has a message that is relentlessly anti-business. I can't even remember all the examples I noticed in that movie. It was so bad that I've tried to put it out of my mind.

[John]

Phil,

I have seen the movie and read Dead Man Walking and Perjohn does percisely that. I have also seen her speak on several occasions and came away with the same impression of her in person. She admits in the book and in person the pain that her work has caused the victim's families. She cares a hell of a lot more about the scumbags she ministers to than she ever has about their victims.

As far as Munich goes. I wonder if you have seen the movie. They show the hostages being siezed but they only show the announcement that they are dead. Speilberg does everything he can to sanitize that murder but shows the Isreali murders in great detail. Throughout the entire movie we never see any of these people doing anything but living normal lives and being killed by ruthless Israelis and of course giving impassioned speeches about the righousness of the Palistinian cause. Its pure propaganda and apparently effective propaganda because it went right over your head.

[John]

Mo,

If you make fun of both sides, doesn't that make you centrist more than one side or another? I read the Onion every week and don't see it go against one side more than another.

[SM]

I am surprised no one's brought up "Starship Troopers" as a conservative movie given that it's got everything to satisfy as a WOT-allegory. Nary a hint of moral equivalence in the whole movie, the villains are bugs so the viewer gets to imagine that they stand for any class of creature they don't really like, the military is fully in charge, no traitors leaking to the NY Times, no hippies, &, as a bonus, the directors' cut is even bloodier. Four stars.

[John]

SM,

There is one good scene in that movie where the bugs are invading earth killing people and the talking head in on TV saying something to the effect of "what has the human race done to these creatures to get them to hate us so much?". It was the classic guilty western liberal.

[SM]

"There is one good scene in that movie where the bugs are invading earth killing people"

Say what ? I am going to assume you mean when the Bugs set off a WMD (ding!) in Buenos Aires coz that's as close as they ever get to any Earth system (in the movie - i think it was somewhat different in the book)). Are you implying that the Bugs are capable of engaging Earth troops in any way other than in a sneak attack ? I am offended.

[Dan]

John sez:

As far as Munich goes. I wonder if you have seen the movie. They show the hostages being siezed but they only show the announcement that they are dead. Speilberg does everything he can to sanitize that murder but shows the Isreali murders in great detail. Throughout the entire movie we never see any of these people doing anything but living normal lives and being killed by ruthless Israelis and of course giving impassioned speeches about the righousness of the Palistinian cause. Its pure propaganda and apparently effective propaganda because it went right over your head.

Dude, either you're lying or you walked into the wrong movie. (SPOILERS ahead, sorta) The Munich I saw repeatedly revisted the scene of the original hostage-taking/massacre, breaking it up into episodes throughout the film. The movie ends with a graphically violent restaging of the murders of the 11 athletes which was intense enough to leave me almost shaking with anger. This last scene in particular has been endlessly discussed and analyzed in print and online, the point being that if you wanted to pretend to the readers of this forum that you'd seen Munich, you could've at least done a little bit of research. You are so totally busted.

[Akira MacKenzie]

Meh... I want futuristic soldiers killing bugs, I'll watch Aliens.

[dhex]

um...the film version of starship troopers struck me as being satire. and very funny at that.

also: who the fuck cares if people make fun of big business? it's not like there aren't enough real world examples of vile larceny in such settings to last a thousand films.

[gfmnnb]

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[Phil]

As far as Munich goes. I wonder if you have seen the movie. They show the hostages being siezed but they only show the announcement that they are dead.

No. You are a liar. The statement above is an outright lie. There are at least four different flashbacks to the Munich event, in which we see a few of the athletes shot to death in the hotel room, and in which we later see the horror at the airport during which the rest of the athletes were massacred. This last has been the point of some controversy, being intercut with a scene of Avner (Eric Bana) having sex with his wife. Why do you think you can get away with a lie like this, you asshole?

Speilberg does everything he can to sanitize that murder

Yeah, that scene where we see the body of an athlete lying on the floor with most of his lower back missing from automatic weapon exit wounds is sure sanitary. And when the other one is shot and we see the bullets hitting the wall behind him with a torrent of blood. And when five of them are machine-gunned at close range in a helicopter. Clean as a whistle.

Throughout the entire movie we never see any of these people doing anything but living normal lives and being killed by ruthless Israelis and of course giving impassioned speeches about the righousness of the Palistinian cause.

You didn't pay any attention to the Daniel Craig or Geoffrey Rush characters at all, did you? Or to Golda Meier, or to Avner's mother? Of course you didn't, because you didn't see the movie.

Its pure propaganda and apparently effective propaganda because it went right over your head.

Fuck you, you lying bag of shit.

I never thought I'd live to see the day when Steven Spielberg -- STEVEN FUCKING SPIELBERG -- would be accused of being a Jew-hater.

[Stevo Darkly]

I am surprised no one's brought up "Starship Troopers" as a conservative movie given that it's got everything to satisfy as a WOT-allegory. Nary a hint of moral equivalence in the whole movie, the villains are bugs so the viewer gets to imagine that they stand for any class of creature they don't really like, the military is fully in charge, no traitors leaking to the NY Times, no hippies, &, as a bonus, the directors' cut is even bloodier. Four stars.

Look at the movie again. The film version of Starship Troopers, very much unlike the book, is an anti-military movie. Note the frequent use of propoganda clips that should be readily recognizable as parodies of patriotic rah-rah propaganda. Specifically the clip encouraging children to stomp on (ordinary Earthly) insects -- whipping up blind hate of all things Bug-like.

And look at the spaceships at the end of the movie -- sleeker, more streamlined, more "modern/futuristic" and obviously upgraded versions of the clunky versions of the ships that came before. Thus implying that the war has gone on for years and years and may well go on forever.

It would serve as a decent WOT allegory, but on the anti-WOT side.

PS: The movie also makes the military look like a bunch of milling-around incompetents, but I doubt that was intentional.

[Mo]

All of Spielberg's movies are liberal tropes, anti-Semitism or a combination of the two. Like Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List.

John,
Uh, the Onion is not at all balanced between left and right humor. Either you completely miss the jokes or are willfully ignorant. Judging by your review of Munich, I'll say it's the latter.

P.S. The balance of the humor doesn't mean jack squat about the politics of the writers anyways. When I make a series of self-depricating jokes, it doesn't mean I'm anti-Mo.

[Mo]

John,
Also, way to avoid my statement regarding conservatives' new love of government after Bush got elected. Or is it ok when NR switches its opinion on government, but not if Rob Reiner does.

[thoreau]

Mo-

First, congrats on post #69.

Second, I'm not sure what the Onion's slant is, and I read it religiously. I guess it's slightly left, but only slightly. And there's some healthy libertarian sentiment in there too. Any newspaper with a headline like "Marxist apartment illustrates why Marxism doesn't work" or "Libertarian Party Convention Held in LA Apartment" is cool in my book.

[Dan]

There seem to be two Dans here.

[Dan T.]

Dan,
I will give you the Daily Show, although its not nearly as funny as claims to be. But it is funny sometimes and completely over the top liberal. Stewart is really kind of a nasty fellow but he is funny.

Stewart plays the straight man, usually. He doesn?t strike me as nasty at all but then that?s probably because I usually agree with him.

I don't see how you can put anything done by Moore as funny or satire.

I don?t know, a good bit of F911 was dedicated to making GWB look stupid: ?We must fight the terrorists wherever they are. Now watch this drive.? Clearly, he at least attempts to use humor to get his points across at times.

The guy who writes Dilbert is very conservative from the interviews I have read.

He might be, but doesn?t Dilbert mostly concern itself with lampooning the absurdities of capitalism? It clearly appeals to the ?labor? by making workers look smart and rational while management is greedy and buffoonish.

The Onion is very centric. It lampoons ignorant leftists just as much or more than it does conservatives.

I disagree with you here, but that could just be a matter of perception. I guess with Republicans in power they are more likely to be the targets of the Onion right now at least.

[SM]

"um...the film version of starship troopers struck me as being satire. and very funny at that."

Yes, of course & so is "Robocop" and most everything Verhoeven does. But people who are prone to see political talking points everywhere may not neccesarily be equipped to detect the parody.

[mediageek]

"I am surprised no one's brought up "Starship Troopers" as a conservative movie given that it's got everything to satisfy as a WOT-allegory. Nary a hint of moral equivalence in the whole movie, the villains are bugs so the viewer gets to imagine that they stand for any class of creature they don't really like, the military is fully in charge, no traitors leaking to the NY Times, no hippies, &, as a bonus, the directors' cut is even bloodier. Four stars."

Um, Paul Verhoeven is on record as stating that he made Starship Troopers to mock right-wing hawks.

The entire movie is basically a filmic screed against Yankee imperialism as seen through the lens of an idiot manchild.

[SM]

For the luvva ... I now understand why people use sarcasm tags.

[mediageek]

Oh...

Sorry. 8^

[ispdrudge]

I would encourage everyone to go watch Interstate 60. I can't understand why it never got a theatrical release. "John", however, should skip movies and read more, until he learns how to spell.

One other neglected movie with rightist themes is The Beast, concerning mujaheddin vs Soviets, and an appreciation of at least one aspect of Islamic culture.

Will Hollywood ever have the guts to make a movie out of Crichton's "State of Fear", to balance "Day After Tomorrow"? Don't hold your breath, although it would reduce your CO2 emissions.