Trace That Gun

After several recent shooting deaths in Hartford, Mayor Eddie Perez is pushing to toughen Connecticut's gun laws, "especially in the areas of tracking illegal firearms and reporting lost and stolen guns."

In a local TV news report about the latest fatal shooting, the mayor tells the camera:

"The issue is not who used the gun, it's how did the gun get there."

By the way, the killer in that case is still at large. (Not that he's the issue.)

Comments

[OJ]

By the way, the killer in that case is still at large. (Not that he's the issue.)

I will not rest until I find the real killer.

[abdul]

It's wrong to blame the gun.

It was probably abused as a child, or subject to institutional discrimination. the answer is to educate the guns and empower them.

[Dar]

The actual killer is likely still lodged in the victim or sitting in a zip lock bag. It wasn't the original gun owner nor was it the criminal who stole the gun and pulled the trigger. The gun itself can not be blamed since it was just an unwilling accomplice forced to do what it did by the bullet and the criminal.

The gun always gets the bad end of the deal. Its about damn time we take this to the root of the problem causing all this violence, the law abiding gun owners. Finally something to get behind.

Ask your doctor if its right for you!

[MP]

an unwilling accomplice forced to do what it did by the bullet

According to Ron Bailey, there should be a miracle drug to cure lead poisoning any day now, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.

[Evan]

In other news:

After a recent rash of fatal hit-and-run accidents involving pedestrians in the Stamford area, several car dealers were arrested and charged with aiding and abetting in 3 of the slayings. According to one police spokesman, the investigators were not actively seeking the drivers of the cars, asserting that, 'the real issue is not who drove the cars, but where the cars came from'.

[whizler]

I hope when they find that gun, they prosecute it to the fullest extent of the law!

[Evan]

There's all this talk about blaming gun dealers, or blaming gun manufacturers...but I say, it's about time we went after the miners who dug up the raw metals that are used to make these guns & ammunition. If they weren't so careless about who they sold their metal to, then the careless dealers wouldn't have guns in the first place, and thus, criminals wouldn't have guns, and thus, nobody would be killing anyone.

I call for legislation that would impose harsh penalties on any mining company that sells raw metal to a company that refines it who sells it to a gun manufacturer who sells it to a dealer who sells it to a criminal who uses it in a crime.

See, I can play this game too.

[Jennifer]

Of course, if they ever find the actual killer, they'll probably learn his gun was illegal anyway. There is indeed a great deal of crime in Hartford, but the ones committing the crimes are (duh) criminals, who will ignore any new laws about guns.

This state gets more idiotic every day. At least our politicians do.

(This might be a double post. The daily server malfunction came early today.)

[Stephen Macklin]

It is frightening how quickly Connecticut is becoming Massachusetts.

[David]

It is frightening how quickly Connecticut is becoming Massachusetts.

Don't remind me. I used to enjoy making fun of Massachusetts' silly puritanical laws. Now, I think, at least they have an excuse. Ours are that we misreact to everything.

If someone gets shot with an illegal gun, we toughen guns laws that already ignored. A drunk kills someone with a BAC 4 times the legal limit, our solution is to lower the limit.

[thoreau]

None of this would have happened if those damn Chinese chemists hadn't figured out gun powder. Let's face it, gun powder is a chemical weapon.

I say we invade China, since they are the ones responsible for chemical weapons proliferation.

[Qbryzan]

By their logic, they will need to stop blaming the president for any deaths from the war and put the blame on the defense contractors.

[David]

Actually after reading the media advisory, and doing a few quick googles, crime in Hartford is at it's lowest point in five years. Why then would we need tougher gun laws? Because shootings over this summer were well-pubicized, with criticism of the mayor and police force for "allowing" them to happen. This move is to appear to be "doing something".

I almost bad for people who really think that tougher standards on those already following existing laws will have any bearing on those who don't. They seem to believe that if we just had laws addressing everying and enough police with enough authority to enforce them all, nothing bad would ever happen to anyone. Sadly, they never learn their lesson, and they make life more difficult for the rest of.

[jive miguel]

___(1)____ have deeper pockets than ___(2)____. so let's go after ____(1)_____.

fill in the blank game:

gun dealers, the people responsible for the crime;
the rich, the poor;

any others?

[zach]

Well I can't watch the video at work, but even from Mr. Alissi's blog, it seems that (one ridiculous quote notwithstanding) the mayor's just trying to make it easier to track lost and stolen guns, which to me is an admirable pursuit. I'm not exactly sure how one would "toughen laws" in that regard, but again, I'm ignorant of the specifics here.

[Jim Walsh]

I fear this is a debate the right-to-bear-arms side is going to lose in the long run. All the gun grabbers have to do is keep wheeling a drooling Jim Brady out for the cameras....

[zach]

We can show them video of emotionally abused handguns.

Yeah, it doesn't have quite the same oomph to it.

[thoreau]

We can show them video of emotionally abused handguns.

Therapist: Where did he touch you?

Gun: On the trigger, and on the hammer, and then he....

Therapist: It's OK. You can tell me.

Gun: He pulled out my magazine.

Therapist: And what did he do with your magazine?

Gun: He put these round things in it.

Therapist: Bullets?

Gun: Yeah. And then he shoved it inside me.

[matt]

"Therapist: Where did he touch you?..." (etc)

Damn, thoreau, you're going to get me fired for laughing so hard I completely disrupt the office!

[Matt]

Seems like he's being a parrot for this site http://www.cagv.org/ which seems inordinately concerned with "where the gun came from", and much less concerned with who pulled the trigger (perhaps a blame the victim type approach, the abused handgun being the victim? "Handgun, did you dress provocatively and invite him to pull your trigger?", but I digress).

They also seem much surprised that long guns actually kill people too. Go figure.

[Brett]

Anybody who uses the "guns don't kill people...PEOPLE kill people" line is a loon. Or so my wife's TV shows have taught me (Law and Order, etc.).

And besides, we need to focus energy on this thought...Just what if there were no guns?

[Rich Ard]

Just what if there were no guns?

Drs. Skynyrd et al examined that possibility in their landmark work "Mr. Saturday Night Special", as I recall.

[mediageek]

"the mayor's just trying to make it easier to track lost and stolen guns, which to me is an admirable pursuit. I'm not exactly sure how one would "toughen laws" in that regard, but again, I'm ignorant of the specifics here."

It's a moot point, because it's already been instituted.

Let's say the cops recover a Smith and Wesson at a crime scene. S&W gets a phone call and is given the serial number for the gun. Once they've got the serial number, S&W tells the authorities which wholesaler bought that particular firearm, and from there they can trace it down to which dealer in what state. A phone call to that dealer, and they will find out, via the Federal Form 4473's that are required to be filled out by anyone purchasing a firearm from gun store, who the gun was sold to. From there they can find out who the end buyer was and and get in contact with him to see if he's the criminal in question, or in turn re-sold the firearm.

Ultimately, it's really a moot point. Finding out where a gun came from doesn't really do anything to stop crime. At least not that I've been able to tell.

[mediageek]

A World Without Guns

One of the most brilliant bits of text to come out of National Review.

[Evan]

Brett:

"And besides, we need to focus energy on this thought...Just what if there were no guns?

I'll tell you what would happen: Kang & Kodos would enslave us all.

Seriously? If the gun were never invent, then the criminals would simply use other forms of weaponry to commit their crimes. The biggest fallacy of the anti-gun movement's ideology is this absurd belief that, without guns, the violent crime that guns are used for would disappear. No, they'd just use other weapons. Guns aren't the catalyst for crime, per se. They are simply a tool used for such.

But it's easy to blame the tools used, and not the underlying, complex factors that really cause crime. And as I've always said: show me an easy way out that never solves anything, and I'll show you a politician or nanny busybody whose idea it was.

[mediageek]

And I apologize for my previous overuse of "moot."

[R C Dean]

All the gun grabbers have to do is keep wheeling a drooling Jim Brady out for the cameras....

Oddly enough, the drooling-Brady ploy coincides with a liberalization of concealed carry laws, the expiration of a certain assault-gun ban, and a general turning of the tide, political-received-wisdom-wise against gun control.

[Evan]

RC:

Might that have anything to do with the fact that tighter gun control laws don't actually work? I wish that I could say that pols & the general public were having sea-changes of principled beliefs, but I think it might have something to do with the fact that, pragmatically, they are useless. My ma, an avowed liberal-democrat through and through, was whining about the assault weapon ban expiring (musta read some scare story in the WaPo); but when I replied that it hadn't resulted in any decrease in crime, she sort of mumbled something and trailed off. Gun control folks will argue ideology all day long, but they don't know what to say when you show them that their stupid tactics just don't work.

[zach]

Let's say the cops recover a Smith and Wesson at a crime scene. S&W gets a phone call and is given the serial number for the gun. Once they've got the serial number, S&W tells the authorities which wholesaler bought that particular firearm, and from there they can trace it down to which dealer in what state. A phone call to that dealer, and they will find out, via the Federal Form 4473's that are required to be filled out by anyone purchasing a firearm from gun store, who the gun was sold to. From there they can find out who the end buyer was and and get in contact with him to see if he's the criminal in question, or in turn re-sold the firearm.

Right, and maybe this is harder to do in CT, for some reason... again, I'm ignorant of the details. And why do you say the ability to trace guns does nothing to solve crimes? I'm not an expert on the efficacy of certain forensic techniques, but conventional wisdom holds that it does, so I think you bear the burden of proof here.

[mediageek]

"Gun control folks will argue ideology all day long, but they don't know what to say when you show them that their stupid tactics just don't work."

In my experience, they tend to just up the volume.

To a large extent, I think there was a pretty serious sea change after (yeah, it's a clich?) 9|11.

Many gun companies reported a sharp uptick in sales, and anecdotal evidence seemed to indicate that many of the sales were to first-time buyers.

[JD]

It's all posturing, we knew that, but here's an interesting tidbit I found the other day:

Slayings in the city plunged last year to a level not seen in more than 40 years, but fewer than half the killings were solved, according to internal NYPD statistics obtained by Newsday.

(http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/manhattan/nyc-nyhomi104582476jan10,0,6994037.story)

But remember, Mayor Mike says guns are the problem! Pay no attention to the lack of detective behind the curtain!

[mediageek]

"Right, and maybe this is harder to do in CT, for some reason... again, I'm ignorant of the details."

In which case, the authorities in CT really ought to explain why a federal, nationwide system doesn't work for them.

I have a hunch that the explanation has very little to do with actually reducing violent crime, and everything to do with attempting to institute a registration scheme for legitimate gun owners.

"And why do you say the ability to trace guns does nothing to solve crimes? I'm not an expert on the efficacy of certain forensic techniques, but conventional wisdom holds that it does, so I think you bear the burden of proof here."

Because the only time anyone is going to trace a gun is after a crime has already been committed. And most crime guns are committed with weapons that are stolen. The only crime that this might prevent is to stop someone who commits a straw purchase.

[David]

Right, and maybe this is harder to do in CT, for some reason... again, I'm ignorant of the details.

It shouldn't be. Through college, I worked in a pawnshop in CT that sold new and used guns, and you had to keep a log of whom each gun was sold to or bought from, as well as send a corresponding form to the state.

For pistols, you had to submit a background check for each gun sold, and similar paperwork documenting the serial number, brand, caliber, etc.

As far as I know, there was also paperwork to be submitted for gun sales between private individuals, although I'm not certain if that's still allowed.

[Captain Holly]

I have a hunch that the explanation has very little to do with actually reducing violent crime, and everything to do with attempting to institute a registration scheme for legitimate gun owners.

That's the purpose of every gun control law that has ever been passed....

[mediageek]

"That's the purpose of every gun control law that has ever been passed...."

No it isn't! Turrists, children, 9|11!!!!!

😉

[Jennifer]

"Right, and maybe this is harder to do in CT, for some reason... again, I'm ignorant of the details."

Haven't you heard? The laws of physics, science and mankind work differently, here in the Nutmeg State.

[Qbryzan]

Haven't you heard? The laws of physics, science and mankind work differently, here in the Nutmeg State.

Finally the name makes sense - in sufficient amounts, nutmeg is a hallucinogen:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/nutmeg/

[mediageek]

Yeah, but what about The Sideburn State?

[Stevo Darkly]

"And besides, we need to focus energy on this thought...Just what if there were no guns?"

"I'll tell you what would happen: Kang & Kodos would enslave us all."

Oh yeah, I forgot about that Simpsons Halloween episode, where Lisa's wish for a world without weapons comes true. The Kopel article that mediageek linked is great, but the Simpsons episode made a similar point in a much punchier way.

I'll never forget this line from a club-wielding Kang (or was it Kodos?):

"Your superior intellects are no match for our puny weapons!"

[Jennifer]

By the way, I read that Connecticut got its nickname because back in the day when spices were quite rare and expensive, people in Connecticut were apparently notorious for selling fake nutmegs carved out of wood.

Ah, there's nothing quite like immortalizing fraud in your state nickname. Maybe the original residents of Nags Head, North Carolina, would have felt more at home here.

[Stevo Darkly]

Progress ... bar ... so ... slow ...
Will my post appear at all?
I fear for squirrel

[Qbryzan]

Ah, there's nothing quite like immortalizing fraud in your state nickname.

Well, they call New Jersey the "Garden State". It may not be fraud, but it is certainly false representation.

[Larry A]

Perhaps all those guns are coming from the illegal gun cottage industry in India.

[matt]

"Well, they call New Jersey the "Garden State". It may not be fraud, but it is certainly false representation."

No more than calling something a "honey bucket"....

[Larry A]

Ah, there's nothing quite like immortalizing fraud in your state nickname.

I.e. "Oklahoma Sooners."

[Chris]

I am sure there is at least one garden in NJ 😀

[Jennifer]

I am sure there is at least one garden in NJ 😀

Fertilized by the dead bodies of Tony Soprano's victims.

[Seamus]

"If someone gets shot with an illegal gun, we toughen guns laws that already ignored. A drunk kills someone with a BAC 4 times the legal limit, our solution is to lower the limit."

And when a pedestrian carrying an SKS semi-automatic rifle on Pennsylvania Avenue opened fire on the White House, that was cited by the powers-that-be as a clear indication that only pedestrian traffic should be allowed on Pennsylvania Avenue.

[Snorpht FingerPoot]

da problem wit all youz wee-kneez iz:

WHEN ITS TIME TO SHOOT........ SHOOT.

DON'T TALK

EH HEN'T

[Sherry Parshley]

look, we gotta outlaw guns. guns kill right?

an, and, like the UK, we gotta ban knives. knives kill, right?

yeah, and baseball bats. baseball bats kill, right?

an, and how bout that girl that got strangled, huh? gotta ban rope. rope kills right?

and that those drunk guys that threw the just married guy out the window of the cruise ship. we gotta ban cruise ships, and windows and drinking. yeah and glasses that hold the booze and the ice cubes too.

an ya know, my brother hit me with an ice sikyle one time an I thought I was gonna die so we gotta ban ice sycles too.

an gazoline too cause it makes cars kill people, right?

yeah then were gonna be safe cause we got all the stuff thqat kills ya. rigth?

[Sherry Parshley]

look, we gotta outlaw guns. guns kill right?

an, and, like the UK, we gotta ban knives. knives kill, right?

yeah, and baseball bats. baseball bats kill, right?

an, and how bout that girl that got strangled, huh? gotta ban rope. rope kills right?

and that those drunk guys that threw the just married guy out the window of the cruise ship. we gotta ban cruise ships, and windows and drinking. yeah and glasses that hold the booze and the ice cubes too.

an ya know, my brother hit me with an ice sikyle one time an I thought I was gonna die so we gotta ban ice sycles too.

an gazoline too cause it makes cars kill people, right?

yeah then were gonna be safe cause we got all the stuff thqat kills ya. rigth?

[Bob]

>the mayor's just trying to make it easier to track lost and stolen guns

Keep track how? One presumes that the Hartford police already keep records when a gun is reported lost or stolen.

[Mike W]

media-geek,

I think there is some truth that public opinion re the anti-gun agenda changed after 9/11, but that change began sooner-- during the late 90's and the 2000 election. Gore started out as an ardent gun-grabber but backed up during the campaign to appear more as a centrist.
Moreover, NRA membership skyrocketed during this time period. They are a very efficient and organized I/G who can reach hundreds of thousands of voters with stunning speed, for an issue millions of people between NY and Cal feel very passionate about.

[mediageek]

Mike, well said, and no disagreement here.

Heck, it seems like about every other week the Democrats are sitting around in a cricle asking each other how they can get the gun vote, or at least get the NRA to leave them alone.

Howard Dean was almost on the right track when he said it should be left up to the states, but to be completely honest, I'd have to see a lot of grovelling* coming out of the Democrats before I'd ever consider voting for one. But even though they know they've hosed it on the gun issue, they continue to hew to the same old line of "I'm not going to take away any hunter's duck shotgun."

*Repeal the '86 ban, the GCA 1968, and lots of rabble-rousing about the inherent stupidity of the NFA of 1934, for example.

[JD]

An oh-so-apropos followup to this: It turns out that the Long Beach Police Department is missing about one-fourth of its shotguns and an unknown number of revolvers. No audit had been done since 1998. (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-shotguns13jan13,0,5267085.story)

But remember, it's you civilians who can't be trusted with guns.