MSM Derangement Syndrome
Michelle Malkin has returned to earth after a Drudge Report story had her highly suspicious (and a bevy of fellow travelers absolutely convinced) that CNN flashed a big black "X" in front of Dick Cheney's face during video of a speech as some sort of ploy to subliminally influence its audience. (Someone finally slowed down the video and noticed it was a pretty standard TV transition frame that got accidentally superimposed.)
OK, first, subliminal: "sub-" meaning below and "liminal" referring to a threshold, as in "below the threshold of conscious perception." If you noticed it, it ain't subliminal. More importantly, though: Have we really reached the point where upon seeing an obvious technical glitch in a live TV broadcast, the first reaction of many people—not folks living in mom's basement among stacks of old John Birch Society newsletters, mind you, but widely-read and well-remunerated pundits—is "subliminal brainwashing"? Really?
Addendum: And oh dear sweet freaking Jeebus, while I was wading around on that site, I noticed that a couple entries below, Malkin flips out over a quote from a Chris Matthews speech:
"The period between 9-11 and (invading) Iraq was not a good time for America. There wasn't a robust discussion of what we were doing," Matthews said."If we stop trying to figure out the other side, we've given up. The person on the other side is not evil. They just have a different perspective."
Malkin then slaps up a photo of bodies falling out of the World Trade Center (classy, Michelle) and asks "Remember this perspective?" Zing! Except it's pretty obvious that in context here the "other side" means Democrats and war opponents—the people with whom Matthews is saying the administration didn't have a "robust discussion." Or rather, it's pretty obvious if you're not in the grips of the assumption that Bush critics are ipso facto terrorist sympathisers.
Addendum-to-the-Addendum: Commenters aver that Matthews has, in fact, said stuff along the lines of the "just have a different perspective" line about Islamist terrorists. That didn't strike me as the intuitive or charitable reading in this context, but punditry, like a good cereal, has many varieties of nuts and flakes, so it's certainly possible.
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How dare they put subliminable messages in a Dick Cheney clip!
"not folks living in mom's basement among stacks of old John Birch Society newsletters, mind you, but widely-read and well-remunerated pundits?is "subliminal brainwashing"?"
Michelle Malkin is that? Really?
I think I'd believe the John Birch Society basement dweller before I'd give second thought to any of her drivel. At least the basement dweller is thinking for himself. Malkin, like most 'pundits' today, tries to write the most shocking, one-sided analysis she can, whether it is remotely truthful or not.
See also, Coulter, Ann.
Inconsolable shrieking has become the first line of defense of the Right over the last five years. Any time something gets thier goat, be it the "assault" on Christmas or an unpopular nominee, they go straight into "shocked outrage" mode. The trope of substituting indignation for moral certainty is a trick they picked up from the Left.
I'd like to see a Reason cover that features the faces of assorted pundits at the peak of thier blowhard-ness, with the words "goddamned crybabies" across them all.
Yeah, Michelle, you got it, honey. Ol' Dickey Boy's approval rating is hovering somewhere between that of ALF and, oh, I'd say, Brownie. What, less than 1 in 5 people approve of him? The American public obviously knows how evil and crooked the VP is---they certainly don't need a big "X" over his face on CNN to convince them. Oh, but, yeah, maybe the "Communist News Network" [so clever, Michelle - do you even know what Communism is?] was really trying to convince that last 20%.
Quasibill's got it right. Why does Julian actually put entertain the idea that MM and her ilk have a baseline rationality? Why should anyone be surprised? You give them too much credit when you analyze them in rational terms. Idiots like her and Coulter, along with their kneejerk mirrors on the left, do nothing but play into the biases and emotions of their readership. Hmm, with those kind of credentials, maybe she should be a politician.
My favorite part is the one of the last updates from MM, after her little conspiracy theory has been completely and absolutely debunked:
"Update IV: Let's stay focused on the importance of what Cheney actually said. Jeff Goldstein breaks it down here. Paul Mirengoff shares his favorite part of the speech. Transcript is here."
Yeah, um, forget that I'm a kneejerk halfwit who jumps to errant conclusions at the first sign of any potential bias against my team. Focus on what he said. Yep. Nothing to see here.
And, after she's encouraged her readers to focus on what Cheney said, she then turns around and links to a Drudge lead about a CNN staffer laughing when the X came up. Yeah, focus on what Cheney said. Unless, well, you know...
Jesus, she's a piece of work.
Well, Tyler Cowen was wondering why UFO reports have declined. I'm guessing they all became OSM bloggers.
Shocking. But let's not forget when that rock of sobriety, Albert Gore, had his compaign whine and bitch during the DemocRATS ad campaign.
However, it's definitely worse for the nation when it's pundits that nobody really pays attention to anyway, as opposed to the man running for president.
X
jf:
Yeah, you know, you're right. Gore was worse than MM. We should all just shut up and talk about Al Gore's actions from years and years ago.
And Clinton was worse.
*sigh* What in the HELL does that have to do with this issue? Not a goddamned thing. Nobody's judging MM relative to the democrats. The only reason anyone would have to bring that up would be an attempt at obfuscation. Like, uh, yeah, sure they might have cherry-picked intel to justify their war, but, see, Clinton got his johnson waxed and then lied about it!!
Bringing up relevant historical incidences is one thing. But tossing out a completely unrelated, irrelevant non sequitor like "Gore was worse!" is just worthless.
Now, now, don't be too hard on ol' Michelle -- she doesn't always write her own stuff.
Dave Neiwert has had a great series on this twit. Start here and read all five parts.
I wonder if it was really an homage to the X-Files? Specifically the character "X?" 🙂
It is silly but how would the various lefty blogs reacted if Fox News had made the same mistake when say Hillary or Reid or Kerry or (pick a Big Dem of your choice) was speaking?
I think the current Lefty and Righty positions would simply be reversed.
This&That
"But tossing out a completely unrelated, irrelevant non sequitor like "Gore was worse!" is just worthless."
A while back, I got chided for claiming that people still did this seriously.
I'm waiting for my apology.
It is SUPER-liminal suggestion. Only blindfolds can save us from this pernicious threat - that and not watching tv news.
Evan,
Well, it all started with Jeff P.'s effort to paint "the Right" as somehow stepping over some line (of civility?) over the past five years.
This&That,
I expect Republicans and Democrats to be equally nasty, hypocritical, etc. when they are in power.
Blue,
I so rarely watch any form of TV news I would have never noticed.
Anyway, Malkin or whomever clearly have way too much time on their hands.
I have this feeling if we would just ignore these people they would go away. They just want to sell books.
Jason Ligon,
Michelle Malkin (and others like her) are the L. Ron Hubbarb's of political punditry. 🙂
Right, Sanchez, Malkin isn't the most relaxed conservative out there.
Matthews's quote is borderline hilarious. After the tone and content of the questions he routinely throws at GOP/conservative show guests he has the temerity to counsel us that we need to "figure out" the other side??? Priceless.
Hypocrisy doesn't necessarily invalidate one's argument, but in this case it's too blatant.
Hak:
Did you see the scientology South Park? Truly awesome. I loved the notice "Scientologists Really Belive This".
Yeah, you know, you're right. Gore was worse than MM. We should all just shut up and talk about Al Gore's actions from years and years ago.
Well, dipshit, if you can tell me where I made either of those points, I'd appreciate it.
Now, if you're done changing the subject, my point was: Julian found this important enough to make a post. Jeff and Quasibill went over the top with their comments. Hell, Evan, you yourself said "Yeah, um, forget that I'm a kneejerk halfwit who jumps to errant conclusions at the first sign of any potential bias against my team." I made a rational, reasonable reply concerning the lack of outrage when a presidential candidate did THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING as Malkin, and yet Malkin (who I still contend has no real influence over anything) is the "kneejerk halfwit".
And as for you, M1EK, if you have anything of substance to add to this thread, it'll be the first time that you've done that in some time. Perhaps if you considered your role to be less of "pot-stirring kneejerk liberal" and more along the lines of "contributer to the discussion" we might be better off.
Children, do not make me turn this blog around.
Although, apparently there's this "shocking" new development:
CNN SENIOR MANAGEMENT LAUNCHES INVESTIGATION; CONTROL ROOM STAFFER 'LAUGHED' WHEN X FLASHED, SAYS SOURCE...
OH MY STARS! Somebody laughed! At a technical glitch! Involving the VP! Quick, ressurect Nixon and restart COINTELPRO, get Bobby Seale on the case! This is a travashamockery!
It's like JFK conspiracy people, or Creationists: once you know what the answer is, it's just a game of figuring out how the latest information proves it.
The possibility of a technical glitch must not be true, because it doesn't prove that the MSM is engaging in dirty tricks against Republicans.
"lack of outrage"
Well, I neither blogged nor worked for Reason when that happened... but I may well have been outraged; I don't recall. Do I have to get re-outraged about it now because I'm noticing something similarly silly on the other side?
jf,
Thanks for laying down a marker for 'contributor to the discussion'.
M1EK and Evan,
I think jf's response to Jeff P. was valid, he just didn't need to go as far back as the Al Gore rant. He could have simply pointed to Harry Reid and the other democrats' whiny double-super-secret closed-door senate meeting. "Whaaaa! We didn't get the indictment we wanted! We're gonna close the Senate!" 🙁
Down the rathole:
jf, the "Rats" graphic had to be purposely designed to appear that way. There was no way that it could appear unless the person doing the title designed chose to make it appear.
The X frame, otoh, is standard operation procedure in video editing. It is spliced into feed when jump cut is made. It's appearance is no different than when you see the color bars for a moment.
Jason Ligon,
Nope.
Timothy,
Clearly they need to take some lessons in rat fucking from a professional. 🙂
Julian:
Your outrage, or lack thereof, is not the issue. I simply find it strange that some people are getting so worked up over a nobody pundit making a big deal out of a stupid alleged "subliminal message" incident.
And outrage is not the right word, it's just the first one that comes to mind. Perhaps "disquietness" would be more appropriate.
Then again, the color bars do look sort of like a rainbow flag. Aha, more subliminal leftist propaganda!
This is sort of fun.
Have we really reached the point where upon seeing an obvious technical glitch in a live TV broadcast, the first reaction of many people?not folks living in mom's basement among stacks of old John Birch Society newsletters, mind you, but widely-read and well-remunerated pundits?is "subliminal brainwashing"? Really?
yep.
anyone wants to take bets on how long it is before the shooting starts?
To her credit though, even an anti-immigration reactionary sees the folly of the drug war.
Then again, the color bars do look sort of like a rainbow flag. Aha, more subliminal leftist propaganda!
LOL! That is the funniest thing I've seen from you in a while.
anyone wants to take bets on how long it is before the shooting starts?
LOL! That is the funniest thing I've seen from you in a while.
How, exactly, was my point over the top, unless you are a party-line elephant? The point I made was that MM is not worthy of the moniker of serious pundit. As Jason said, she's selling books, plain and simple.
But then I guess when you've got blue colored glasses on, anything that challenges it is over the top?
When will someone take a cane to Malkin's tormentors? 🙂 Then we can wave the bloody shirt (or whatever piece of apparel happens to get bloodied) and disparage the viciousness of our opponents!
The image on all frames of film to be used for editing purposes or emergency broadcasts shall hereafter be Rorschach Blobs. We may now assume left and right reactions will exactly cancel each other out, so nobody will need to say anything else this stupid.
This has been a public service announcement - not in the loaded 'public sentiment' way, but in a strictly neutral 'more than a couple of you guys' sort of vein.
You know, you don't have to be a Democrat to want to put an X on the Vice President.
This is silly. Even if someone at CNN did this on purpose--a proposition I doubt very much--there's no way anyone in management authorized such a move. It's a screw up, big flockin' deal. Though I must say that if I were going to do something like that on purpose (and probably lose my job as a consequence), I'd want to do something more dramatic, like put a Manson swastika on Cheney's forehead or something. Of course, being a nominal member of the GOP, I suppose I can't do that, since only Democrats are allowed to dislike the Administration.
quasibill:
I'm guessing that you didn't read Rob's link yet, and you're probably not as familiar with Malkin's writings as you might try to claim. Which Republican talking point mentions being anti-drug war?
Maybe it was only on that one, single column, where she actually thought for herself. Surprising the Republicans didn't immediately send her to the re-education camps for that transgression.
He could have simply pointed to Harry Reid and the other democrats' whiny double-super-secret closed-door senate meeting. "Whaaaa! We didn't get the indictment we wanted! We're gonna close the Senate!" 🙁
Wow. You couldn't get a more mis-stated version of what occurred here if you simply picked random words out of a magnetic poetry set.
And what does any of that have to do with "OMFG TEH EVIL MSM X-ED OUT TEH VICE-PRES" conspiracy theory nonsense? Do you not actually see the difference between ludicrous conspiracy peddling and taking advantage of the internal rules of the Senate?
"I'm guessing that you didn't read Rob's link yet, and you're probably not as familiar with Malkin's writings as you might try to claim."
Well, you guessed wrong. Sorry, try again next time.
"Which Republican talking point mentions being anti-drug war?"
WTF does that have to do with any of my posts? Are you on crack?
"Maybe it was only on that one, single column, where she actually thought for herself. Surprising the Republicans didn't immediately send her to the re-education camps for that transgression"
Well that nails it down. I didn't realize I was dealing with someone on narcotics or suffering from schizophrenia. Really - what does that rambling rant have to do with anything I said?
Let me spell it out for you, because apparently my first post was too complicated. Malkin is trying to sell books, so she makes the most outrageous, controversial statements she can that play toward her market. She is not a serious thinker. She is a book-seller. Granting her the respect of a "well-read" pundit is over-the-top, IMHO.
I simply find it strange that some people are getting so worked up over a nobody pundit making a big deal out of a stupid alleged "subliminal message" incident.
If even one person reads her post and says "damn liberal MSM", that's all the justification anyone needs for calling her a twit.
You seem to be much more worked up than anyone else is.
WHat did I say that was over the line? There hasn't been a shred of actual philosophical thought thrown out by either party since mid-Clinton. I'm talking about mainstream media and big name punditry, here. Neither official party has done a damned thing to counter it.
The possibility of a technical glitch must not be true, because it doesn't prove that the MSM is engaging in dirty tricks against Republicans.
A friend of mine at The Hotline has a hypothesis about this: that the "liberal bias" in the media isn't a part of some grand conspiracy, and generally isn't malicious, but just sort of the practical upshot of the vast majority of reporters leaning liberal a bit. And it has more to do with story selection than anything else. Are there counter examples in the more partisan media? Yes, yes there are. Then again, partisan outlets don't pretend to be anything but.
I think as long as a viewer is aware of this on some level, and I think most are, it isn't that big a deal. So Clinton got better media treatment that GWB, big deal. Both are mediocre, forgettable presidents anyway.
What should we expect from a bitch who thought that sending Japanese-Americans to concentration camps during WWII was kosher?
Like I said a couple of days ago: After 9-11, conservatives went stark, raving, nuts. Any disagreement with war or anti-terror policy is tantamount to treason. Any despicable tactic from conjuring up tales about yellow cake uranium so we could invade Iraq to outright torture of terrorism suspects that is now somehow justifiable. Malkin's paranoid ravings about "subliminal messages" from the liberal media are just another symptom of a larger problem. We've got a bunch of power-mad, nationalistic loonies in the White House and no one in the mainstream has the guts to stand up to them.
The American Right needs collective therapy, or a collective straight jacket.
They used an "X" for goodness sakes. What more proof does anyone need?
Cheney and the X-Files
Akira:
but don't you dare criticize the democrats for their part in this. that'll upset others 🙂
(as usual, "heiter..." etc etc)
Oh, and yes, blah blah blah, Dan Rather, Mary Mapes. Rather has had a personal thing with the Bushes for a few decades, and even if the story had been true I fail to see how weasling out of service in Vietnam by getting into the AirGuard has to do with being president in 2005. I also fail to see what being a hero/being a criminal/whatever on a swift boat in the jungle 35 years ago has to do with running for president in 2004, but maybe I'm just naieve.
Well, according to Technorati the "nobody pundit" runs the 8th most-linked blog on the planet and routinely appears on TV, but it was more a point about the mentality than about Malkin per se.
"So Clinton got better media treatment that GWB..."
You am the smartest historian on Bizarro World!
Ron: So Clinton may or may not have gotten better media treatment, either way I honestly think the whole issue of "media bias" is unimportant.
I seem to remember Clinton's media treatment as better, but I was like 12 then so I could be misremembering it.
I still contend that the Right learned this trait from the Left, whom it served well.
Go re-read Sowell's Visions of the Anointed
http://lfb.org/index.php?stocknumber=TS8476
"Well, according to Technorati the "nobody pundit" runs the 8th most-linked blog on the planet"
Seriously? Egad. That many people like a little Jerry Springer with their punditry, I guess.
"Well, it all started with Jeff P.'s effort to paint "the Right" as somehow stepping over some line (of civility?) over the past five years."
Several people (most of them more civil than JF himself) have made a similar proclamation on JF's behalf. So, shall we go back and look at the Jeff P. post in question? We shall:
"Inconsolable shrieking has become the first line of defense of the Right over the last five years. Any time something gets thier goat, be it the "assault" on Christmas or an unpopular nominee, they go straight into "shocked outrage" mode. The trope of substituting indignation for moral certainty is a trick they picked up from the Left".
So, to everyone who claimed that JF was just responding to Jeff P.'s supposedly unfair criticism of the right while letting the left off easy: I remind you all that Jeff P., in the very post in question, stated that the Left actually invented the whole "trope" that is being discussed here. Thus, leaving jf's original posts, and subsequent rabid rants, a bit lacking in rationality.
Jeff P: I think that's a pretty sensible position.
See, there used to be this period when political discourse in the U.S. wasn't silly, petty, filled with paranoid rantings, etc. 🙂
"See, there used to be this period when political discourse in the U.S. wasn't silly, petty, filled with paranoid rantings, etc. :)"
🙂 🙂 🙂
when would that have been? say, 1837-1860?
heh
JF:
"Well, dipshit, if you can tell me where I made either of those points, I'd appreciate it."
Thanks for the childish name-calling. It most assuredly shores up your already astounding credibility!
Anyway, why else would you bring Al Gore up? Jeff P. had already noted that the Left actually invented this kind of stuff. You don't have to explicitly state something for it to be implied. Subtlety, anyone?
"my point was: Julian found this important enough to make a post. Jeff and Quasibill went over the top with their comments. Hell, Evan, you yourself said "Yeah, um, forget that I'm a kneejerk halfwit who jumps to errant conclusions at the first sign of any potential bias against my team." I made a rational, reasonable reply concerning the lack of outrage when a presidential candidate did THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING as Malkin, and yet Malkin (who I still contend has no real influence over anything) is the "kneejerk halfwit".
Yes, she is. Again, you are attempting to redefine the point of reference here. Our point of reference was objective rationality, and how absurd on its face this kind of thing was. You, on the other hand, want that point of reference to be how much outrage Al Gore generated some years ago.
And I'm the one trying to change the subject?
P.S., I think someone needs to take some Ritalin or something. The fact that your very first response was to hurl some childish insults at me because I dared to challenge your assertions, should cause at least a little bit of self-reflection.
No.
The link to Chris Matthews is not the text of his speech but rather a story that takes that quote and implies he is talking about the Dems instead of the terrorists. I can't find a text link to his speech.
The quotes as reported above appear to be slightly mixed for example here is the quotes I found,
"The period between 9-11 and (invading) Iraq was not a good time for America. There wasn't a robust discussion of what we were doing," Matthews said."If we stop trying to figure out the other side, we've given up. The person on the other side is not evil. They just have a different perspective.
[and]
"The smartest people understand the enemy's point of view, because they understand what's driving them."
This is in context of a speech about the idea that "... Americans have still not learned to know their enemies instead of just hating them, said American political journalist Chris Matthews yesterday."
Americans include both Dems and Rep last time I checked.
So how can one tell if his quotes support the idea that he is talking about the Dems or the terrorists? I fail to understand how the people "know" one way or the other....yet what they 'know' fits their already known opinions.
For example if one wanted to assume that Chris was talking about the terrorists he has done something akin to understanding the terrorists about a year ago; that the terrorists are not bad guys, just people who disagree:
(via ACE) "MATTHEWS: Well let me ask you about this. If this were on the other side, and we were watching an enemy soldier-- a rival, I mean, they're not bad guys especially, they're just people who diagree with you; they are in fact the insurgents figthing us in their country -- if we saw one of them do what we saw our guy did to that guy [the playing-dead terrorist], would that be worthy of a war-crime charge?"
I would like to see a text of the full speech with the quotes in context, before I believe one side or the other.
Not that it will stop partisans for either side from demonising that "B*tch" or that "B*stard".
For some odd reason the speech text is not on the web.
This&That
"The American Right needs collective therapy, or a collective straight jacket."
A serious case of the American Left pot calling the kettle black.
A serious case of the American Left pot calling the kettle black.
I know leftists sir, and Akira is no leftist.
"Have we really reached the point where..."
20 years ago, where have you been? Or is this news because it is someone on the Right and we expect this out of lefties and libertarians?
Evan:
You did not "challenge my assertions", you put words in my mouth. I come here off and on during the workday to hope to participate in a discussion, and instead some clown turns the assertion I did make, that "Pundit A doing the same thing that Candidate B did is somehow worse", into something quite different.
Furthermore, the point I was making had nothing to do with Right versus Left, so I don't know why everyone is injecting that into this. It's "Presidential Candidate vs. Pundit".
I'm done with this, but I can't believe how thick some of you are. Even Julian asked me some nonsense question about "the other side". I don't live in your Right/Left world, people.
Hi JF:
here's your first comment on this thread:
"Shocking. But let's not forget when that rock of sobriety, Albert Gore, had his compaign whine and bitch during the DemocRATS ad campaign.
However, it's definitely worse for the nation when it's pundits that nobody really pays attention to anyway, as opposed to the man running for president."
to get back to discussing, what do you mean by this? are you excusing one side by juxtaposing the other side in a worse case? i'd like to give you your due on this, as we do have times where there is the pot and kettle, as David C. says (incorrectly about Akira, however).
Has "tighty whitey" Gore weighed in on terror, treason, and tricycles (couldn't think of a third "t") that makes the juxtaposition topic relevant as well as polar-relevant?
And what exactly was the particular whine by the dems in this case?
thanks!
cheers!
VM
Julian's take on this makes no sense. When did Republicans ever call Democrats "evil?" That word has been reserved for terrorists and Saddam Hussein's regime.
Also, Matthews has made these statements before.
http://morethanloans.blogspot.com/2005/11/compare-and-contrast.html
MATTHEWS: Well let me ask you about this. If this were on the other side, and we were watching an enemy soldier-- a rival, I mean, they're not bad guys especially, they're just people who disagree with you;
No, actually, they're people who are trying to kill you.
20 years ago, Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan were knocking back drinks after work.
Things got looney when the "hippie traitor" charge failed to sink Clinton's campaign.
I think calling Akira a leftist is about as accurate as calling Jimmy Carter a libertarian.
We've got a bunch of bright people here, which makes it all the more astounding that the majority seem to be under the impession that MM means what she says. For dog's sake, people, she's just like Coulter-demagoguery for fun and profit. They're both sophists, and are both getting rich doing their schtick. Don't for a second think that it's anything other than a performance.
This&That,
Exactly, you nailed it.
Yes, Tip O'Neill, that paragon of virtue, you know, one of these paranoid fucktard, scumbags that brought us the "Better, More Improve War on Drugs."
joe,
Actually it was "pot-smoking draft-dodger who 'loathes the military'" and Clinton didn't deny any of it, because it was true.
But I only hold two of those against him, and I thought he was a reasonably good Prez.
Then we've got LBJ painting Goldwater as a war-mongerer.
Number 6, I would posit that the problem with all of them -- Malkin, Coulter, Limbaugh, the whole sheband -- isn't that they don't believe the crap they say; it's that mainstream Republican voters do.
"20 years ago, Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan were knocking back drinks after work."
And what were the lefty pundits saying about Reagan?
Anyone else remember the mystery device at the back of Bush's jacket?
"Well, according to Technorati the "nobody pundit" runs the 8th most-linked blog on the planet and routinely appears on TV, but it was more a point about the mentality than about Malkin per se."
Well, Malkin never fully embraced it as you said, and has backed away from it after a little consideration. So what's your point exactly? Western Society is collapsing because there are wingnuts who can post ill considered opinions on the web? We should all be glad of that, especially you, Julian.
Do you think this is uniquely strange? A 1 day consideration of a wacky conspiracy theory is pretty tame for what goes on out there... Have you read antiwar.com over the past 4 years libertoid?
A serious case of the American Left pot calling the kettle black.
--Dave C.
I know leftists sir, and Akira is no leftist.
--MP
I think calling Akira a leftist is about as accurate as calling Jimmy Carter a libertarian.
--Timothy
To conservatives, I'm a "liberal." To liberals, I'm a "conservative." At this point, the terms have become so meaningless that I really don't give a well digger's chicken what people call me.
If you want to label me politically, I would say the term "curmudgeon" works best.
Haven't RTFA, but I suspect that here and elsewhere, accusations of subliminality mean "I noticed this nefarious plot but I don't think other people are smart enough to, so I must save them from themselves."
Just for fun, will someone comment on Ms. Malkin's Glamour Shots photo and the old photo it replaced?
Don't feel bad, Akira. On this board I've been called everything from a statist to a Randroid.
"You did not "challenge my assertions", you put words in my mouth. I come here off and on during the workday to hope to participate in a discussion, and instead some clown turns the assertion I did make, that "Pundit A doing the same thing that Candidate B did is somehow worse", into something quite different."
Once again: that was what your post implied. I'm not the only one who picked up on it. You call it "putting words in your mouth", I call it "calling you on your implications". So be it. At least I have the wherewithal and maturity to refrain from calling those who disagree with me "clowns" and "dipshits". If you came here to "participate in a discussion", you sure as hell did a good job of sabotaging that attempt with your incessant personal insults.
Furthermore, I have a problem with your claim that you weren't commenting on the left or the right: you have subsequently asserted that you were responding to Jeff P's and Quasibill's posts. Their posts were pretty much about partisan (left and right) tactics.
So, if you were, in fact, responding to their posts, then I find it contradictory for you to absolve yourself of any commentary on partisan fighting, seeing as how that was the subject of their posts.
Meanwhile, your assertion that MM is a nobody has been thoroughly debunked as well.
So, after denying this and absolving yourself of that, where does that leave you? With a rather vapid point about how the outrage against Al Gore was insufficient. So?
How does that tie into this discussion? Are we too outraged at MM? Relative to what? Al Gore?
Well, then, either you're CYA'ing now to fix your prior mistakes, or you're left with a pretty empty point about standards of outrage.
Twba,
She's ugly?
Wow, all this fighting over a technical glitch and a usual suspect pundit being ridiculous?
In the last 24 hours my wife has been sick, she got into a car accident while trying to drive to the doctor (she's fine, but the body work means we just coughed up a $500 deductible), I feel guilty for not leaving the lab to drive her, we spent the entire rainy evening dealing with the aftermath and trying to keep the other driver happy until the tow truck came (late), we're crossing our fingers that they just send the bill to our insurance and don't call a lawyer, this morning I ran into every conceivable technical and scheduling glitch before delivering a presentation on my latest calculations, and the mechanic can't get started on the car until Monday at the earliest.
Fortunately, the presentation went far better than I hoped and we've just started a nice new collaboration and will be publishing some good papers soon. But the roller coaster of the past 24 hours puts a lot of things in perspective.
So I'd be happy to trade places with anybody whose biggest fucking problem is that a politician from their party was the subject of a technical glitch on TV. Or whose biggest fucking problem is that an idiot pundit said something stupid.
The only people that I won't trade places with are idiot pundits and corrupt politicians. I need to keep my brain functioning and my soul reasonably pure.
JDM:
Well, Malkin never fully embraced it as you said, and has backed away from it after a little consideration. So what's your point exactly? Western Society is collapsing because there are wingnuts who can post ill considered opinions on the web? We should all be glad of that, especially you, Julian.
Never fully embraced it? Jesus, what standard are you using? She's still frothing over a CNN staffer laughing about it.
Julian never said anything about western society collapsing. His point, it seemed, was that this kind of kneejerk reactionary, jump-to-conclusions, kind of shit is pretty foolish---and MM is one of the main culprits. Is he required to make a more grand, "deep" point than that?
And regarding the "wingnuts" sentence: I don't think Julian has any problem with the fact that they can do so...it's just pretty foolish that they do do so. And that "wingnut", while she is a wingnut, is pretty widely read and linked to.
thoreau - Dude, you and I are having approximately the same week. Hang tight, it's a holiday weekend.
Unfortunately,there appears to be a whole new generation of Michelle Malkins out there. The Omaha Weird-Herald is shepherding a little ray of nutty sunshine by the name of Rainbow Rowell. Some days she comes off like the granola-munching child-of-Dead-head-parents her name suggests, other days she can outrant MM, Coulter or O'Reilly all rolled into one. If she were at all consistent, I'd say she was dangerously insane. Apparently young, female and reactionary is chi-chi these days.
She is not a serious thinker. She is a book-seller.
True enough. Problem is when the babblings of Malkin or Coulter or Michael Moore (or for that matter just about any politically-oriented talk show host) get mistaken for serious political discourse.
She is not a serious thinker. She is a book-seller.
My wife sells book. Malkin spews lunacy. Get it straight.
Evan:
Nowhere did I say I was respond to Jeff and quasibill; I said I was reply (to the original post by Julian) because of the quasibill and Jeff remarks concerning the rantings of a pundit. Quit making things up.
As far as my assertion that Malkin is a "nobody" and that being "debunked", please tell me one piece of legislation, one social issue, or one anything that Michelle Malkin has had any role in affecting. Can't do it? Thank you.
thoreau:
OUCH! That's major suckage. I hope everything works out for you.
Killing Bush's immigration reform, by helping to whip up public scorn towards paperwork-deprived America-joiners?
Now we get to see jf go from "has had any role in affecting" to "singlehanded caused the outcome."
thoreau: hang in there, man, hope next week is better.
Actually it was "pot-smoking draft-dodger who 'loathes the military'" and Clinton didn't deny any of it, because it was true.
I can only hold the 'loathes the military' against him and I'm not even sure that's demonstrably true.
The draft is an immoral, repugnant thing and I can't really hold dodging it against anybody. That's like trying to get me upset that somebody evaded taxes. As for pot smoking? Well, it makes me paranoid as all get-out, but other people can do what they want. Of course, I'll hold the man's taste in women against him, but his punishment for that is being married to Hillary.
More importantly, though: Have we really reached the point where upon seeing an obvious technical glitch in a live TV broadcast, the first reaction of many people--not folks living in mom's basement among stacks of old John Birch Society newsletters, mind you, but widely-read and well-remunerated pundits--is "subliminal brainwashing"?
Yes.
...and if you play what Michelle Malkin says on Fox News backwards, it sounds like, "Kerry would have been worse."
It's a lot better than what she says played forwards.
Good grief, Thoreau. I had no idea. I hope things resolve themselves quickly.
I once heard a comedian say something to the effect of "They got mad at Clinton for smoking pot, and Bush for not going to Viet Nam. SO what they want is someone who went to Nam, but didn't smoke pot..."
Gosh thoreau, nail up a horseshoe quick!
I once heard a comedian say something to the effect of "They got mad at Clinton for smoking pot, and Bush for not going to Viet Nam. SO what they want is someone who went to Nam, but didn't smoke pot..."
So they want Al Gore then? :p
As for political pundits I get the impression that the whole point is to say some party line talking points and yell a whole lot. Not for me.
'His point, it seemed, was that this kind of kneejerk reactionary, jump-to-conclusions, kind of shit is pretty foolish---and MM is one of the main culprits. Is he required to make a more grand, "deep" point than that?'
No, but the "have we reached the point" language is foolish, which is my point. It is a knee jerk reaction in itself. We've been there a long time, and this is pretty tame as far as conspiracy theories go. A libertarian especially ought to understand that.
People far more read and respected than Malkin have been saying crazier stuff for a long time. More importantly, they have been standing by it. Ever hear the name "Noam Chomsky?"
Thanks for the sympathies and well wishes. My plan is to finish up a few loose ends here, go home, wait for our tow truck (last night's tow truck was for the other guy's car), then exercise and relax, and start everything all over again tomorrow.
On the plus side, those calculations that I've been hinting at for a few weeks got somebody really excited during my presentation. He came up with an excellent application for them, so when I start over fresh tomorrow it will be to start writing a journal article and get started on our joint project.
Yeah, I know, leaving in the middle of the day sounds bad, but considering that today was my most successful presentation yet, and on the heels of my worst day in a while, I don't feel too bad about it.
I would posit that the problem with all of them -- Malkin, Coulter, Limbaugh, the whole sheband -- isn't that they don't believe the crap they say; it's that mainstream Republican voters do.
amen. and i'd include as many leftist pundits vis-a-vis democratic voters. people are wonderfully complex creatures, but are susceptible to propaganda and get a lot of propaganda in the united states that has the effect of making them senseless. keep increasing the level of vitriol, and people will start shooting each other over it.
For what its worth, I think that CNN and big swathes of the establishment media have a serious case of tunnel-vision and Bush-hatred.
But the Cheney X isn't part of it.
Michelle Malkin? Seems like a right-wing Michael Moore, only with smaller boobs.
Remind me again, how many papers is Noam Chomsky published in? Because Malkin appears in hundreds.
Michelle Malkin? Seems like a right-wing Michael Moore, only with smaller boobs.
R C, you put a smile on my weary face!
"Remind me again, how many papers is Noam Chomsky published in? Because Malkin appears in hundreds."
Remind me again how many papers his followers are published in, and hom many university faculty positions they hold...
thoreau,
I just caught up on the non-Evan and me stuff. I'm really sorry to hear about your run of luck, and I sincerely hope things get better for you.
Oh, you know those powerful holders of faculty positions - the ones that are so out of touch with mainstream America that they, er, exert a powerful influence on public discourse.
Name a lefty college professor that has a cable show. Name one that has a popular talk radio show. Tell you what, I'll spot you Krugman - name another lefty college professor that writes a syndicated column. Name a college professor that my mother would recognize if she met him walking down the street.
Tell you what, name me one of Chomsky's "followers." Go ahead, the most famous follower of Chomsky in America. Take a minute, and come up with the most famous name you can.
Remind me to point out to JDM what a "tu qouque" fallacy is.
Edit: "Tu Quoque"
Damn dead languages.
"Remind me to point out to JDM what a "tu qouque" fallacy is"
Please do, then point out where I'm making one. Or, try paying attention to what I'm saying. Or just butt out, you pick. (To be fair, you also have the option of continuing to post irrelevantly.)
I'll say it again - this is no special high water mark, or even a good barometer for where we are. There are lots of idiotic things said every day, and have been for a long time. She even took this one back.
joe,
What are you blathering on about? There are no lefties saying stupid things in the public discourse? Or are they different because they don't take them back the next day? Or is it because many of them pretend to be objective? What do you think my point is?
Please do, then point out where I'm making one.
Let's see...
People far more read and respected than Malkin have been saying crazier stuff for a long time. More importantly, they have been standing by it. Ever hear the name "Noam Chomsky?"
Ok, you've started with a premise, now you just have to figure out how it relates to my proposition, then you'll have it.
Almost there...
You essentially downplayed Malkin's rhetoical drivel by playing the "the lefties like Noam Chomsky say cray things too" card.
That sounds pretty Tu Quoque to me.
Edit: "...say crazy..."
"If we stop trying to figure out the other side, we've given up. The person on the other side is not evil. They just have a different perspective."
Even if he were talking about terrorists, I don't see why this is bad. You have to understand your enemy in order to anticipate his moves and defeat him. Critics of Matthews' statement need to get a dictionary and look up the difference in meanings between "empathy" and "sympathy." Not the same.
Damn, kids, don't make me turn this blog around.
"Michelle Malkin? Seems like a right-wing Michael Moore, only with smaller boobs"
A-f'in-men. Neither is a serious analyst. Both are focused more on sensationalism than truth. Which, again, was my only point - her opinion is worth nothing more than a good laugh (at her, not with her), just like Moore's.
"That sounds pretty Tu Quoque to me."
So someone just has to say "this is a transgression worse than all that have come before" and no one can challenge that in your world without it being a tu quoque?
Subliminal influence: an imaginary creature.
See
http://skepdic.com/subliminal.html
Who, thoreau, I'm sorry to hear about your tribulations! I hope things get better.
At least your presentation went well.
A bit of synchronicity on the car accidents. Over the weekend, one of my relatives got rear-ended on the highway. He's OK, but the car was totalled. Moreover, for loony reasons I won't go into here (not drug-related or illegal, but he's rather eccentric), he was carrying $5,000 in cash on him. In the course of the accident, approximatly $1,400 went blowing down the highway. I have yet to hear what the police response to that was. Luckily he's old and extremely unhip, or they'd peg him as a dealer for sure.
Who = Whoa!
I have yet to hear what the police response to that was.
Running down the road stuffing bills into their pockets?
So someone just has to say "this is a transgression worse than all that have come before" and no one can challenge that in your world without it being a tu quoque?
Unless you are willing to equally condemn both sides and not play favorites. However, saying that "Noam Chomsky is worse than Malkin" in no way excuses, dismisses, or justifies what Malkin have done or said.
Stevo-
So, you're a libertarian, your uncle is eccentric, yet he carries $5000 in cash? Not gold?
🙂
In the course of the accident, approximatly $1,400 went blowing down the highway. I have yet to hear what the police response to that was.
I would have helped him stuff the cash back into his mattress before properly securing it in the bed of his pickup truck.
Why don't you try to make your argument for yourself, JDM?
In general, you seem to be trying to make a "you, too" argument, but you keep being made the fool whenever you attempt to demonstrate your case. Like when you present Noam Chomsky as some who is "more read" than Michelle Malkin. Or that the existence of leftist college professors is somehow equivalent to the right wing shrieker industry.
I'm influenced by neither righty shriekers or lefty profs, but one could make the argument that profs are, you know, teaching the next generation of folks that may go on to become politicians or another form of policy maker.
I will point out, while acknowledging that this has no more to do with adult, mainstream liberals than The Turner Diaries has to do with mainstream conservatives, that it was Chomsky who had a bestselling book out rather quickly about 9/11, not Malkin. As for fans of either, Malkin probably has an edge for selling beyond academics and college students who think they're being rebellious.
If it was somebody else, you know, I'd just think, well eccentric is eccentric, but it's Stevo we're talkin' here!
...To Stevo, what is eccentric? ; )
And best wishes for your wife and you, Thoreau.
Wow, you guys are so nice!
Now, if only that tow truck driver would show up....
Stevo and R C Dean-
Reno 911 called, and they want their script back.
"Why don't you try to make your argument for yourself, JDM?"
I have been, why don't you try paying attention to it? (Yes, that's a rhetorical question. I know why you don't.)
"In general, you seem to be trying to make a "you, too" argument,"
I've restated my point several times. Poor joe, how will he ever figure out what I "seem" to be saying?
"but you keep being made the fool whenever you attempt to demonstrate your case. Like when you present Noam Chomsky as some who is "more read" than Michelle Malkin. "
Noam Chomsky and his ideas are more widely read and accepted than a thought on Michelle Malkin's blog that is taken back the next day. Call me crazy, but I stand by that statement. It is foolish, I'll grant, to "argue" with the likes of you.
"Or that the existence of leftist college professors is somehow equivalent to the right wing shrieker industry"
You're right joe, I see my error in arguing that that right wing pundits are the equivalent of of lefty college professors. Now if I could just figure out where I did that so I could perform a proper rectraction.
Here's some help for you - substitute Michael Moore for Noam Chomsy, or Eric Alterman, or any other *example* you like.
Either that or come out and say that linking without endorsing a stupidly mistaken interpretation of an X on a broadcast that no one saw because her readers were asking what she thought about it, then saying it was an innocent mistake once more information came in, (linking the info voluntarily, I'll add) should be a revelation to any sane person about how low the discourse in this country has sunk.
Wow, gee, now that you've make a snippy, dickish remark, I've completely forgotten that you can't address any of my arguments. Brilliant!
But wow, you certainly have a remarkable number of different ways to write "I didn't say..." what you just said.
"I see my error in arguing that that right wing pundits are the equivalent of of lefty college professors. Now if I could just figure out where I did that so I could perform a proper rectraction."
Uh, right here: You quoted me saying, "Remind me again, how many papers is Noam Chomsky published in? Because Malkin appears in hundreds."
And then responded with: "Remind me again how many papers his followers are published in, and hom many university faculty positions they hold..."
Sigh, poor joe, if only he was smart enough to understand that I didn't really mean what I meant.
The only reason you're more dickish than easily refuted, is because you are such a dick.
So, you're a libertarian, your uncle is eccentric, yet he carries $5000 in cash? Not gold?
He's neither a libertarian nor a goldbug. His eccentricity defies description.
But at least he's neither a whacky leftist college professor nor a hottish Asian but hyperventilating Right-wing columnist, either. (Deftly pushing the thread back on track...)
Thoreau - Ouch. My sympathies. Look at it this way: at least everything can be fixed with a bit of time and money (I'm hoping your wife's illness is of that sort).
Timothy - I don't particularly mind that Clinton dodged the draft. I do mind that he thought he should be Commander-in-Chief after that. It kind of says, "I'm too important to die in a pointless war! You aren't, though."
(Deftly pushing the thread back on track...)
I dunno Stevo- your uncle sounds much more interesting than this thread.
"Remind me again, how many papers is Noam Chomsky published in? Because Malkin appears in hundreds."
And then responded with: "Remind me again how many papers his followers are published in, and hom many university faculty positions they hold..."
Convenient that you weren't quoting anything I'd previously said when you made your comment. And that there was no context to my remark. Otherwise, it might be obvious that you were dodging my point, while hypocritically accusing me of doing the same. Oh wait, now that I re-read it, you *were* quoting me, and I was bringing the argument back to my original point. It's all there in black and white, how sad for you...
But really, even out of context, that means righty pundits are the equivalent of lefty professors? Really? I couldn't maybe be saying something else that requires the context of the conversation to interpret? That's just stupid. Here's some more help for you. I was saying that the number of papers she appears in are utterly irrelevant. Especially since the comment at hand didn't appear in a newspaper.
And here you are, ironically, conveniently ignoring even that.
You haven't made a relevent argument. You've just tried to pretend you think my comments mean something they obviously don't.
"The only reason you're more dickish than easily refuted, is because you are such a dick."
So where have you refuted my proposition? I'd like to see. You know, I'd just like to see you state my proposition. I don't think you will.
Seriously, try to figure out what someone is saying before you start talking, or writing. Just a little free advice.
I dunno Stevo- your uncle sounds much more interesting than this thread.
Hey! I just said he was "a relative." How did you know he was my uncle?
My lord -- what else do you know?
mercy -- mr jdm, you might at least admit that you really don't understand what is meant by to quoque. not that you're going to, in the midst of this fit of hostile insecurity... but it is pretty evident that mr mackenzie caught you out -- so you might as well admit it to save some face. try a bit of self-deprication. 🙂
apologies -- "tu quoque". dead languages, indeed!
Even if he were talking about terrorists, I don't see why this is bad. You have to understand your enemy in order to anticipate his moves and defeat him. Critics of Matthews' statement need to get a dictionary and look up the difference in meanings between "empathy" and "sympathy." Not the same.
absolutely, mr elvis. the degree of failure that has accompanied american militarism since world war 2 is directly correlated to the indulgence of the myopic paranoid fear of exposing oneself to the views of one's ostensible opposition -- as though the other view were viral!
we would do far better to understand our enemy than demonize him -- perhaps finding that he needn't be an enemy, perhaps finding our opposition ever more justified, but at least finding.
"mr jdm, you might at least admit that you really don't understand what is meant by to quoque."
A tu quoque is a fallacy of relevancy. It's hardly possible to make a point about the degree of stupidity in ideas compared to other ideas without bringing up the stupidity of other ideas.
Here's some simple logic for you: all tu quoques are fallacies, my argument is not fallacious therefore...
Go ahead and finish the sentence.
JD: I don't really see a problem with it, as during Clinton's term we had an all volunteer military. You know what the job is when you join up: the job is getting shot at and killin' fools. Not a job I'd want, but some folks want in.
Or that the existence of leftist college professors is somehow equivalent to the right wing shrieker industry.
I think that the lefty college professors and left wing shrieker industry have a non-zero interection. But that doesn't make Malkin any less of a psychotic hose beast.
We can all read what you just wrote, JDM. It doesn't matter if you adopt a dickish tone while you try to walk it back.
We can all read what you JUST WROTE.
gaius, "...this fit of hostile insecurity..." is pefect.
He does this every time he's challanged, and hopes that nobody will notice his backsliding and spinning.
But, unfortunately for him, we can all read what he just wrote. It's all still right there, a little higher up in the thread.
gaius marius,
You've come up with some crackpot shit in the past, but the idea that we didn't demonize with a passion Germans and Japanese in WWII, or Germans in WWI, etc. is flat out absurd.
People who think that Malkin is even remotely good looking don't get out much. That chick is as ugly as homemade sin.
"We can all read what you JUST WROTE."
Ok, go ahead...
On demonizing Japanese:
(also: see Dr. Seuss's depictions of Mussilini etc. And of Tojo and Hirohito et al)
From "Time" 22 Dec 1941:
"How to tell your friends from the Japs"
"Virtually all Japanese are short. Japanese are likely to be stockier and broader-hipped than short Chinese. Japanese are seldom fat; they often dry up and grow lean as they age. Although both have the typical epicanthic fold of the upper eyelid, Japanese eyes are usually set closer together. The Chinese expression is likely to be more placid, kindly, open; the Japanese more positive, dogmatic, arrogant. Japanese are hesitant, nervous in conversation, laugh loudly at the wrong time. Japanese walk stiffly erect, hard heeled. Chinese, more relaxed, have an easy gait, sometimes shuffle."
I'll leave it there. If any readers are still interested, "Ok, go ahead" and read the progressions of JDM's comments over the course of the thread.
You got me joe. Because Michelle Malkin is in more newspapers than Noam Chomsky, her linking to a conspiracy theory on her blog, then saying it's false is a new low in public discourse. I can't beleive I was ever foolish enough to argue against it.
We can all agree that Chomsky and Malkin are both assholes.
Yup, I got you, cold, attempting to equate Noam Chomsky to Michelle Malkin in terms of their significance in public discourse, then trying to back away from it.
And gaius and Akira got you cold making a tu quoque argument, denying it, and having to look up what it meant.
Ha ha.
quasibill,
As a political analyst, Chomsky is for the most part no great shakes. He's a one trick pony, and the ferocity with which he's determined to explain everything with his pet "American Empire" theory harms his credibility, even when he discusses issues that could benefit from being looked at in that light.
But he is a linguist by education and profession, and the analysis he does that is closely related to the examination of language - as opposed to his free-range opinionizing about the world - is actually quite good. His investigation into the press's treatment of Central American politics during the Reagan years in "Manufacturing Consent" is sharp as a tack.
And I understand he's quite well respected in his academic field, too.
JDM,
Will you ever be able to live down the shame of being on the wrong end of an argument on a blog? 🙂 You better kill yourself now and get it over.
joe,
And I understand he's quite well respected in his academic field, too.
You'd be wrong then.
"To conservatives, I'm a "liberal." To liberals, I'm a "conservative." At this point, the terms have become so meaningless that I really don't give a well digger's chicken what people call me.
If you want to label me politically, I would say the term "curmudgeon" works best."
Heh. You sounded leftish to me. But far be it for me to label someone a leftist if they aren't, so I apologize. I have a weird mixture of opinions that manage to offend people across the political spectrum myself, so I'm familiar with the difficulties of neatly categorizing everyone.
"Yup, I got you, cold, attempting to equate Noam Chomsky to Michelle Malkin in terms of their significance in public discourse, then trying to back away from it."
Right, "equate." You really got me. One comment on Michelle Malkin's blog is more important than the writings of Noam Chomsky. Keep peddling that one.
Also, keep peddling that I was trying to say that lefty professor Chomskites have more newspaper column exposure than righty commentors. Frankly, I think they may, but I'm not arguing that here.
"And gaius and Akira got you cold making a tu quoque argument, denying it, and having to look up what it meant."
Here, I'll help you out again. I'm saying that linking a conspiracy theory on her blog (then denying it) is not comparatively worse than lots of other things that go on in public discourse. If I were trying to use that to make some larger point to which it was irrelevant, that would be a tu quoque fallacy. But I'm not, so it isn't. See how that works?
People who think that Malkin is even remotely good looking don't get out much. That chick is as ugly as homemade sin.
What's so bad about homemade sin? It's 100 times better than the storebought kind.
I wouldn't kick her out of my internment camp for eating crackers in the interrogation room, is all I'm saying.
JDM is right (if he is accurately describing his statements) that he isn't involved in that particular fallacy.
Anyway, the idea Malkin's particular silliness is a new low just a lack of historical perspective.
" that would be a tu quoque fallacy."
I should say, I could accept that as a tu quoque fallacy.
BTW, there are few conversations more pointless than arguing who is worse, Michelle Malkin or Noam Chomsky.
"BTW, there are few conversations more pointless than arguing who is worse, Michelle Malkin or Noam Chomsky."
Of course there are, just tune in tomorrow...
BTW, there are few conversations more pointless than arguing who is worse, Michelle Malkin or Noam Chomsky.
But which one is hotter?
Stevo Darkly,
Maybe Chomsky and Malkin should mate. 🙂
Hakluyt,
NOOOOO! I've just gone blind imagining that! Thanks a lot, bud. 🙂
jf, the "Rats" graphic had to be purposely designed to appear that way. There was no way that it could appear unless the person doing the title designed chose to make it appear.
At risk of going from zero credibility to negative...
I just watched that ad again, and framed through the RATS segment. joe, you are absolutely correct that it had to be intentional. I therefore revoke every argument I made equating that ad with the Malkin piece. I also apologize for the names I called Evan. Not because he was right, but because I was wrong for stooping to such levels.
Slainte'-I would say that the Senate action had more to do with pulling attention away from the Alito nomination than the indictment. Which might be worse, actually...
Gaius-I don't know when the shooting starts, but I call June of 2013 in the inevitable "Towards a New American Civil War" pool.
Akira-I don't care what you are, I just want to sneak "well-digger's chicken" into a conversation somewhere.
jf,
I think that was very big of you. It doesn't lower your credibility, it raises it, in my eyes at least.
Wow, I had completely forgotten about that RATS ad until I read this thread. I just googled it to watch the ad again, and I found it on a CNN page with a story that included the following:
"Bush said he was "convinced" that the ad was not intended to send a subliminal message. (Bush more than once mispronounced the word as "subliminable.")
That parenthetical statement wasn't very nice of them. You can also listen to audio of Bush responding to the ad, which I did in hopes of hearing him call it a subliminable message. No luck there, but it did include this gem: "One frame out of 900 is hardly a conspiracy to me." Don't think too hard about the logic of that one.
jf,
Remember, only joe is allowed to insult people here. Move along now. 🙂
Am I wrong in thinking that H&R used to have more intellectually stimulating discussions and fewer flame wars?
(I am in no way implying that I'm a perfect human being, so there is no need to flame me for my question; I'm being serious.)
The Real Bill,
Its basically an issue of everyone already having staked out their ground on the major and even minor issues of the day.
"Bush said he was "convinced" that the ad was not intended to send a subliminal message. (Bush more than once mispronounced the word as "subliminable.")
That was all part of his strategery to get people to misunderestimate him.
Ironically, in his early Texas political career Bush was actually criticized for being too well-spoken (he sounded too much like an Eastern boy). He reportedly vowed never to be "out-countried" again.
Chomsky's investigation into the press's treatment of Central American politics during the Reagan years in "Manufacturing Consent" is sharp as a tack.
Actually, it's laughable. Despite all Chomsky's alleged "filters" (which somehow fail to weed out the 80% of journalists who describe themselves as left-leaning), the press was extremely anti-Reagan. From the logically farcical method Chomsky "proves" his point (finding any two situtations that were reported differently and pretending they have anything at all to do with each other), I doubt even he really believes what he wrote in that book.
"Am I wrong in thinking that H&R used to have more intellectually stimulating discussions and fewer flame wars?"
Yes, they were. There were a few months there when the discussions were quite good, shortly after a certain banning.
Then, a couple months ago, the started to go downhill.
You never read it, did you ToolDave?
the press was extremely anti-Reagan
now that IS a grand revision of history to satisfy a persecution complex! "the great communicator" -- the cameras actually hated him, you know... lol.
Am I wrong in thinking that H&R used to have more intellectually stimulating discussions and fewer flame wars?
it's a product of increased popularity, imo. the more people you attract ot the board, inevtiably the more likely it is that you'll attract silly people. and silly people tend to be the loudest, of course.
Then, a couple months ago, the started to go downhill.
Speak for yourself, commie pinko booger-eater.
"Am I wrong in thinking that H&R used to have more intellectually stimulating discussions and fewer flame wars?"
It did, but that was years ago. Too clubby nowadays.
Although, the flame wars used to be more fun too.
It did, but that was years ago. Too clubby nowadays.
Yeah, back in the old days it was a freakin' symposium.
...Gimmie a break. ...How our memories glorify the past!
"Yeah, back in the old days it was a freakin' symposium."
It could actually ocassionally be a symposium. People like John Hood, who just had an article for Reason.com used to post pretty regularly. Even the lefties here were smart people like SM Koppelman or Kevin Carson. Both a little crazy at times, but compare them to M1EK and joe. Also, the writers used to mix it up more often. It was a far more interesting place.
"...Gimmie a break. ...How our memories glorify the past!"
Eh, disagree if you want, but it was better by any standard I can think of - more intelligent and informed commenters, more interesting discussions, more humorous.
more humorous
Um, you may have a point on some of the other stuff, but I don't think the humor has gone downhill at all.
(Makes farting noise under armpit)