Babies as Public Goods

Will Wilkinson has a good post on the problematic logic of treating reproduction as a public benefit, to be promoted by the state.

Comments

[Hakluyt]

Well, first of all, there is the taint associated with such an idea from the efforts of the Nazis.

[Hakluyt]

Try:

Koonz, The Nazi Conscience

Koonz, Mothers in the Fatherland: Women, the Family and Nazi Politics

Stepheson, Women in Nazi Germany

[saw-whet]

Why is there a taint? Just because they're Nazis? Not very Libertarian of you.

[metalgrid]

Well, as long as we have the pyramid scheme of SS/MC and in turn you end up paying for their education, how else would you want to view children as? They are your ticket to retirement.

[Hakluyt]

saw-whet,

Just call me intolerant. 🙂

[Misanthrope]

I'd comment, but I'm too busy retching.

[Old Fogey]

Nazi taint?

I thought a taint was the little piece of skin that taint yer balls and taint your arsehole!

[Akira MacKenzie]

Scary stuff Herman. Reminds of Pat Buchanan's last book where he called for Western Christians to be fruitful and multiply in order to try to outbreed the Muslims.

Is still a violation of Goodwin to compare someone to the Nazis when they're actually acting like Nazis?

[metalgrid]

Is still a violation of Goodwin to compare someone to the Nazis when they're actually acting like Nazis?

Until they kill 6 million jews, you can't compare them to nazis.

[Mike]

Well, as long as we have the pyramid scheme of SS/MC and in turn you end up paying for their education, how else would you want to view children as? They are your ticket to retirement.

I thought one objection to SS/MC was that it broke the generational bond: young people no longer needed to stick around to help their old parents because the government was doing it for them.

[British Libertarian]

what about if they invade poland?

[scape]

The taint looks closer to that of Communist China. Change the one-child per family maximum to a four-child minimum and these Conservatives have their policy.

[metalgrid]

I thought one objection to SS/MC was that it broke the generational bond: young people no longer needed to stick around to help their old parents because the government was doing it for them.
Comment by: Mike at November 15, 2005 02:41 PM

The government is doing it for them, by using their money. That's why I said it was a pyramid scheme.

[Ruthless]

Someone already made this comment on Will Wilkinson's post, namely the US government already considers babies public goods.
"Let's do it for the children."

[ralphus]

Is this really a problem? This country seems like it's on a baby bender. If you go anywhere these days screaming brats surrounds you. All our friends are spitting out kids. We're thinking about having one just for the sake of our social life.

Question for parents. When did strollers become mini SUVs? My parents used the same stroller for my sister and me. I remember it folding up to about the size of a large umbrella. Now I go to the mall and have to dodge oblivious parents pushing their brood around in the Babies R' Us version of an up-armored Humvee.

[citizengnat]

Of course, all our social spending worries could be cleared up just as easily by altering immigration laws. Its clear what the real problem here is: not enough white babies.

[Ruthless]

citizengnat,
I'm with you.
The government's solution to EVERYTHING is to spend more money: Build a higher fence between the US and Mexico. Dole out more money to encourage fecundity. (Is that the right word?)

[Jeff P.]

If you get the chance, read the comic Concrete: The Human Dilemna (it's out in trade paperback).
In it a pizza empire billionaire does the opposite of the article, and gives cash subsidies to college age people who choose to get irreversable sterilization. The author approaches the subject from the left, but his take on the right's reaction is quite accurate. They equate not having children with actively killing children and endangering the country.

[somebody]

Ruthless,

I believe demographers use 'fecundity' to refer to the reproductive potential of a population in a given period (the number of women of childbearing age) and 'fertility' to refer to actual live births. But I could also have it backwards.

S.

[Not David]

Ralphus,

We didn't use a stroller except when absolutely necessary. They're a pain in the ass and I had too many bad memories of dealing with other people's strollers, especially the double-wides. But I expect that big strollers are just a part of the general broadening of America, from SUVs to asses to middle-class entitlements. Bigger is better! America! Love it or leave it!

Hak, oddly enough I have one of the books you cited in my house.

[Ruthless]

Gee thanks, somebody.
Did I have it right or not?

Speaking of demographers, did you see where the princess of Japan married a city planner? Probably a distant cousin of joe's?

[Hakluyt]

Not David,

Cool.

[winter]

Re: Free K-12 education

Government K-12 "schools" are the biggest middle-class entitlement in the U.S. It costs more to run K-12 schools than it does the military. ( federal, state, and local costs combined). It costs as much or more to educate a K-12 child than a college student.

Today, please notice the big, expensive cars on the freeway. Glance up at the mini-mansions on the hill. Everyone of these people can afford to pay some or all of the costs of educating their own children. We can start the process of privatizing K-12 education by handing these worthies a tuition bill.

[Serafina]

Oh, what we really need to do is follow France's example and pay mothers an extra thousand a month for having a third kid.

[saw-whet]

Since 1970 I have been saying there are too many people. But do people listen? Nooooooooo! Jezus, do I have to shoot people to make myself heard?

Hmmmm, increase my killing power, you say.

[Seamus]

"When did strollers become mini SUVs? My parents used the same stroller for my sister and me. I remember it folding up to about the size of a large umbrella. Now I go to the mall and have to dodge oblivious parents pushing their brood around in the Babies R' Us version of an up-armored Humvee."

None of those strollers are as big as the baby carriages that you used to see until around the mid-60s. In fact, neither are today's baby carriages.

[Seamus]

"Is still a violation of Goodwin to compare someone to the Nazis when they're actually acting like Nazis?"

I'm confused. Is encouraging the consumption of wholesome food and otherwise trying to reduce environmental carinogens (see http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0691070512/reasonmagazinea-20/ like Nazis"? Is building superhighways? Is staging the opening of the Olympics with a torch-lighting ceremony?

Just pointing out that the Nazis did something isn't a serious argument against our doing it. Even if you're talking about genocide, the reason to oppose it isn't that the Nazis did it, but because . . . (wait for it) . . . it's WRONG.