The Greatest
The former Cassius Clay receives the Presidential Medal of Freedom:
Bush, who appeared almost playful, fastened the heavy medal around Muhammad Ali's neck and whispered something in the heavyweight champion's ear. Then, as if to say "bring it on," the president put up his dukes in a mock challenge. Ali, 63, who has Parkinson's disease and moves slowly, looked the president in the eye -- and, finger to head, did the "crazy" twirl for a couple of seconds.
The room of about 200, including Cabinet secretaries, tittered with laughter. Ali, who was then escorted back to his chair, made the twirl again while sitting down. And the president looked visibly taken aback, laughing nervously.
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What office does Mr. Ali hold that he's being fired from?
I wonder how often Bush has to face personal, direct mocking.
Too bad Ali didn't just punch him. Now _that_ would have been good comedy!
Please, God, let there be video footage.
I had a great joke about the Ali/Superman comic, but the comment filter nailed me.
I genuinely don't understand what the president could have been "taken aback" by.
He made a little gag, "I'm going to fight Muhammad Ali!," and Ali made a little gag back, "This guy must be crazy!"
What's the problem?
Maybe Bush felt like David Letterman did when Cher famously called him an asshole on his show.
This is a man who became a member of the Nation of Islam. This is the man who, for religious reasons, took a five year prison sentence rather than serve in Vietnam. ( ...later overturned by the Supreme Court, to be sure.) This is the man who was stripped of his Championship Title as well as his license to box for refusing to serve in that war.
Why would Bush's people set the President up for such a public rebuke? ...Were they counting on Ali's inability to speak in public? ...or is this just another example of the incompetence of the President's people?
And what are they giving Ali an award for anyway? ...Ali is a great American, not because of the Fight of the Century or the Rematch of the Century, because he stood up for his rights rather than cave in. If it was the Bush Administration that drafted him, wouldn't they have sought to have him thrown him in jail?
Who decided to give him this medal?
Did Ali beat any women while he was there?
> Please, God, let there be video footage.
What for? Does anyone doubt that Bush is an awkward guy? They say he used to be a fluid and expressive public speaker (Fallows, Atlantic Monthly Jul/Aug 2004). But now he's tighter than a drum. Does anyone remember the pace of his radio announcement when Reagan died? Two syllables per second. It was grueling.
Yes, in recent years, he's probably lost the fratboy gift for backslabbing that he had twenty years ago. Condi's not into that so much.
Ken Schultz,
What rebuke?
>What for?
It sounds like comedy gold, that's what for. Geez.
I was about to post, but then I saw Ken had covered almost everything I wanted to say. As to why give Ali the medal, all I can think of is that this is for inclusion in Karen Hughes' "We [heart] Muslims!" PR campaign.
Ken Shultz,
I figure it was because of the "Rumble in the Jungle." 🙂
I genuinely don't understand what the president could have been "taken aback" by.
The first finger twirl sounds like it was in line in tone with what Bush did, and a direct response to it. The second one, clearly after the point and joke had already been made, sounds like it kind of laying it on. So I can see why it would come across as mocking Bush to his face.
I know "put 'em up" is the perennial joke to make with retired fighters, but it strikes me as rather obnoxious and not quite right when the retired fighter has Parkinson's. Am I being too PC?
My take is the same as joe's -- both guys trying to make funny in a room full of stuffed shirts. Neither gesture is particularly funny, but I'd say the onus is on the guy without Parkinson's Disease to come up with the better sight gag, if one is absolutely required.
The crazy finger twirl has long been Ali's response to anyone who strikes up a boxing pose as if to fight him.
I may be reading into it, but my take is Ali is in effect saying, "You must be crazy if you think that joke is original."
I haven't checked, but I'm sure that right now over at World Nut Daily, some pinhead is bellyaching about "that draft-dodgin' Moo-slim," dissin' our great and glorious commander in chief. BTW: have I mentioned lately that Joe Farah has his head up his ass...
What rebuke?
If I had that sentence to rewrite, I would have written, "Why would Bush's people set the President up for such a potential public rebuke?"
Muhammad Ali is an icon. I've never met him, but I think I know what he thinks of the President's war. If the President hadn't bandied a punch at him, and Ali had mocked him as crazy anyway, this would be a big story. ...There was something to lose for the President here, and not much to gain.
This wasn't a state visit with the leader of Venezuela. ...I don't think his people had to set this up. I don't understand why the potential reward on the risk/reward analysis filtered out like this for the President's people.
They say he used to be a fluid and expressive public speaker
If he was ever fluid or expressive, then somebody like Reagan or Clinton must have had godlike skills in oratory.
Maybe he just wanted to hang out with Muhammed Ali. A friend of mine once said that the coolest thing about being President is that you get to meet all these famous and important people. So maybe he's like "Hey, I'd like to meet Muhammed Ali. Somebody set up a photo op!"
I suspect this comes from W's general lack of spontaneity. The second "crazy" twirl stretched the gag too long for the prez's comfort. Reagan and possibly Clinton might have ad-libbed a response to break the tension and regain the upper hand. I think Shrub lacks those skills.
Maybe Bush felt like David Letterman did when Cher famously called him an asshole on his show.
I thought that was Madonna. Am I wrong?
I'm gonna put some money on that Stewart and Co. wil l have this on thier little comedy show tonight.
Sigh. I guess I'm taking away something a bit different. Ali, the man who used to poeticize that he would be launching the first negro satellite, is reduced to a finger twirl. Mortality sucks.
Yogi,
If it isn't a re-run.
I dunno, Jason, even crippled he managed to leave the world's most powerful man with an embarrassed grin on his face and totally lost for words. He still has something.
Stewart must take a lot of "personal days".
And what's with the goyische name?
Remember that Bush is a sports fan, so it may just be he was having a good time honoring someone he admires.
Hey, I know we all hate Bush and everything, but you're reading a bit too much into the Washington Post's account of the incident. There was no "rebuke," there was no "embarrassment." Bush wasn't stunned or at a loss for words. It was just a ceremony with some light moments thrown in. No right wing nut-jobs are freaking out about the incident because there was no incident. At least not in the video footage I saw last night or every other account of the evening that I've read.
Joe is correct.
About this.
Had the former Cassius Clay given GWB the finger I would be of a different opinion. As it sits, I think sometimes a cigar is just a fargin cigar.
And certainly he's an icon, no argument there, but so is Marilyn Manson.
> It sounds like comedy gold, that's what for..
Well, yeah... But we've got lots of tape like that to watch at this point.
There are a few things W's biographers are going to have to clear up for us. One is, how did this former master of casual bonhomie lose his touch? Did he trade it for some worthier political skill?
Did Bush tell Ali how the bodily tremors and lack of bowel control brought on by Parkinson's is all part of the gift of human dignity?
Or did he just tell him how much he likes the grill he sells on TV?
Once again guys, my contention is that Bush's publicist--for want of a better term--did a Tom Cruise for him on this. ...What's the upside of the risk? ...and the risk was exposing himself to the potential for public ridicule.
Ken,
There was no possibility of public ridicule. Ali's joshing wasn't ridicule. The only possibility of public ridicule came when Bush himself acted the fool...
Oh, wait.
ChicagoTom:
Madonna used the word "fuck" on Letterman about 12 or so times. The audience booed her when she came on stage and she was pissed. It was sometime in the aftermath of the Sex book. Her next record contained the song "Human Nature," which I believe might have been inspired by that event.
"And I'm not sorry...I'm not your bitch, don't hang your shit on me..."
Then there was Sandra Bernhard, who brazenly made fun of him for co-hosting some show with Shelly Long ("Blowing my mind and turning me on with Shelly Long.") and then refused to appear on Letterman for years because she didn't like the way she was treated on the show.
So, lots of women get bitchy with Dave.
Jeff P.:
"Did Bush tell Ali how the bodily tremors and lack of bowel control brought on by Parkinson's is all part of the gift of human dignity?
Or did he just tell him how much he likes the grill he sells on TV?"
Ha! Good one.
And in a parallel universe President Ali is granting a presidential pardon to drug kingpin George Walker "the Stalker" Bush whose conviction and 60 year sentence for making terroristic threats and attempted murder over 30 years ago were surrounded by controversy and charges of a government set-up.
vabs, still, nothing in Letterman history has ever topped The Crispin Glover Incident. Which I'm proud to say I watched live.
And even that doesn't top the time that Hulk Hogan put Richard Belzer in a sleeper hold and knocked him out.
I'm just free-associating now.
Phil, the Crispin Glover incident sounds like it was a good time! How lucky to have seen it live. I have never seen a live celebrity meltdown, myself.
I gotta say though, the Farrah Fawcett Incident is on par with that one. I don't have a link, but remember when she went on there high as a kite and thought the cityscape backdrop was real? That was around the time it was rumoured she was seen pooping on the grounds of the Playboy mansion during a cocktail party.
Celebrities -- sometimes it seems they're worth every penny they make.
"This is a man who became a member of the Nation of Islam. This is the man who, for religious reasons, took a five year prison sentence rather than serve in Vietnam."
Just how is "I ain?t got no quarrel with them Vietcong?" a religious reason? It's a bit of common sense that, if everyone had it, would make modern war almost impossible. If I were drafted, It's the exact reason I would give for not going (change Vietnam to appropriate current target).
On your larger point, I agree...why is the President giving the Medal of Freedom to someone who openly challenged the power of the state? If conscription were reinstated, wouldn't people who chose not to "serve", citing the same reason as Ali, be prosecuted?
Ali SHOULD receive something called the "Medal of Freedom". Most other recipients should have received a "Medal of Servitude" or "Medal of Obedience".
Back in the Eighties, Ali did an anti-apartheid PSA that included a really bizarre mental lapse:
"A hundred years ago, this country abolished slavery. It's hard to believe that today, in Nineteen-Eighty... uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... uuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... uhhhhhhhh...
Fiiive....."
And now, after twenty more years of mental deterioration, he's still faster on the uptake than George Bush.
A nation has obligations to its citizens, and citizens have obligations to their nation. Clay helped sell more people into slavery than Lincoln saved. Besides that, a few of his "wins" were facilitated by officiating that must have had money on the side.
"I know 'put 'em up' is the perennial joke to make with retired fighters, but it strikes me as rather obnoxious and not quite right when the retired fighter has Parkinson's. Am I being too PC?"
Comment by: fyodor at November 10, 2005 01:52 PM
I feel the same way, I don't think you are being too PC. In that situation it was inappropriate.
I think what happened is that Bush whispered to Ali, "I thought you were awesome in Men In Black".
In those Crispin Glover screecaps, he looks a bit like John Derbyshire did in the Bruce Lee movie.
Considering that this is the nation's highest honor for civilians, I'm amazed by some of the recipients.
The cult of celebrity is alive and well.
Gaius, a lonely (and unhappy) nation turns its eyes to you. 🙂
Video of Ali & Bush
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/ABC-World-News-Tonight-med.wmv
I think trying to 'interpretate' the finger wag is a waste of time. But, that said, I wouldnt actually put it past gthe Louisville Lip to stick it to a guy in public. He actually does still have a little sand in his ass over that 'we dont like your sass so we're going to try to send you to 'Nam, and if that doesnt work strip your title etc' thing. He also knows that he's an easy touch for a politician to use to look good. Whatever Ali meant, I can be sure he meant it *his* way... and not just some toss-off cliche...
JG
Ok, I watched the video. "visibly taken aback" is a fantasy. Bush made a lame joke, Ali made one back, Bush and the folks present laughed a little about Ali's comeback.
Pardon me for askin' Gilmore, but I used to know a J. Gilmore...
Did you ever attend a boarding school in central Virginia?