Brother, Kanye Spare a Dime?

Via Boing Boing, check out video (.Mov) of rapper Kanye West going a bit off-script during an NBC telethon for Katrina victims. While little about this situation is funny, I've got to admit it's a little amusing to watch an increasingly uncomfortable Mike Myers attempt to stick to the teleprompter as a palpably emotional West riffs:

I hate the way they portray us in the media. If you see a black family it says they are looting if you see a white family it says they are looking for food….They've given them permission to go down and shoot us.

And concludes: "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

Comments

[Bob Basil]

A truly beautiful moment.

[Tom Crick]

"George Bush doesn't care about black people."

To be fair, I'm not sure he cares about white people either.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Hey, DUDE, black people don't care about George Bush, neither.

[sidereal]

Well, he cares about Trent Lott. Poor guy lost half his houses.

[James]

Spread the link, sign the petition, and write your representation in DC.

http://www.petitiononline.com/help829/petition.html

[Dave]

BIG FUCKING SHOCK. Black people tear up their own town, shoot up hospitals and their rescuers and whose fault is it? WHITE PEOPLE! Gee, didn't see this coming. Fuck Kanye West. You show me the newscast where they showed black people looting and then showed white people doing the same and said "But they were just feeding their families". What channel? When did you see it? No, you just made it up. Fuck you. Everything bad that happense to black people is always everybody elses fault, right? Never has anything to do with their own behavior. Ok Kanye, tell me the shooting of the hospital didn't happen. Tell me the stealing of jewelry, electronics that can't be used, and all other sorts of non-survival supplies didn't happen. Look into the camera and say it. And George Bush invented bad weather, too. George Bush was there at the formation of the world, releasing viruses, mosquitos, ticks, venemous snakes, lightning, tornados, and earthquakes. His power has haunted humanity for all time! BWoohahahahaha! GROW UP AND TAKE A LITTLE RESPONSIBILITY. Learn a lesson from the kid who took the abandoned bus to rescue his neighbors. How many "white" news outlets criticized him? Did Bush ty to have him arrested? Who called him a looter? The spectacle of grown people with the mindset of little fucking children ("Let's take free stuff, I want that, fix this") who do nothing to help themselves sickens me.
I don't care what color these people are. Any white people who were stealing TV's are scum too. Any black people who tried to band together and help each other are heroes too. But that's not how people like Kanye West ever want us to see things. Black people are eternally the victims of the evil white plot, including the laws of physics that tell you hanging out in a neighborhood below a levee during a flood is a bad idea. But I guess you're saying that innocent simple minded black people could never understand it without the Great White Father coming and telling them that water runs downhill. Do you see what you are saying about your own people?

[The Wine Commonsewer]

You notice that Kenya didn't tell anyone what the fuck he's done to help the Katrina Vics. And spare me the telethon histrionics. I wanna know what he's actually done. How much money has he donated? How many buses did he charter to get people out of town? How many trucks full of food and water did he pay for and send? How many life vests, Zodiacs, and rain boots did he pop for?

Five bucks to the first reporter with cajones enough to ask him.

[mewsifer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050903/ts_alt_afp/usweatherpolitics_050903164710

Don't worry Dave, Tim Robbins is on the way to show that White People are idiots too.

Notice that yahoo use "weatherpolitics" in their filename. What does that tell you?

[BT]

You show me the newscast where they showed black people looting and then showed white people doing the same and said "But they were just feeding their families".

http://www.sploid.com/images/lootfind.jpg

[Frank]

They used to tell me I was building a dream, and so I followed the mob,
When there was earth to plow, or guns to bear, I was always there right on the job.
They used to tell me I was building a dream, with peace and glory ahead,
Why should I be standing in line, just waiting for bread?

Once I built a railroad, I made it run, made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad; now it's done. Brother, can you spare a dime?
Once I built a tower, up to the sun, brick, and rivet, and lime;
Once I built a tower, now it's done. Brother, can you spare a dime?
...
http://www.library.csi.cuny.edu/dept/history/lavender/cherries.html

[Jim Anderson]

BT, note that they're entirely different news agencies. Romenesko already covered this one.

[Julian Sanchez]

TWC-
Actually, he does say at one point in his rant that he's just called his business manager to ask how much he could give, so he does at least seem to be doing something.
-js

[Jim Walsh]

Tomorrow watch the Jerry Lewis Telethon as Kanye explains how George Bush is solely to blame for Muscular Dystrophy...

[Dave]

By the way, this isn't the first time Kanye has done something like this. During an interview at Live AID, he explained that AIDS was invented by the US govt to destroy black people. Yup.
This guy should be permanently blacklisted (no pun intended) from any sort of televised charity.
I heard the US govt also invented death itself just to kill black people. It's true.

[The Anti-Puritan]

BT shared this URL:
http://www.sploid.com/images/lootfind.jpg

Did unconscious racism create this discrepancy in reporting? Perhaps. It's healthy for us all to be vigilant against prejudices, but I think we've reached the point of diminishing returns here.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

JS, thanks, I guess I should have watched the video, but still, he should have made that call on day 1 not 15 minutes before air time. And I still want a list. 🙂

[Tom Crick]

"To be fair, I'm not sure he cares about white people either."

That probably wasn't fair.

...But he certainly seemed to care a lot more about Iraqis.

[Shannon Love]

The degree of racial paranoia evinced by African-American is really disturbing. Its got to the point where it has to be self-crippling. When it gets to the point where activist believe tall tales of cannibalism and disaster survivors seemed surprised that white people will actually help them, you really have to ask if people aren't becoming somewhat delusional, seeing racism as the explanation for every negative event.

I think it distracts people from asking hard questions, such as why the African-American mayor of a city 67% African-American neglected to use city or state resources to evacuate the poor and infirm from city.

[matthew hogan]

Would have been nice (agree or not) if Myers ended the segment after West's comments by shouting Waynespeak: "NOT!!!"

[Thomas Paine's Goiter]

Then Bill Clinton hates white people and hispanics.

Read up on Hurricane Andrew relief.

[Tom Crick]

"The degree of racial paranoia evinced by African-American is really disturbing."

I think you have to be careful about the use of the word "paranoia" in this context.

I've heard people describe Hitler as paranoid--please note that I rank Hitler among the most disgusting people ever. ...But calling Hitler paranoid ignores the facts; indeed, hundreds of millions of people all over the world were, in fact, conspiring to kill him.

Most people don't base what they believe on logic or facts--what they believe is a function of who they trust. A lot of black people don't trust power structures dominated by white people. ...Calling them paranoid for that ignores a lot of history and a lot of facts.

[DB]

Did unconscious racism create this discrepancy in reporting? Perhaps

No, racism did not create the discrepancy in reporting. The photos were from two different agencies with different standards for captioning. Snopes has information on it here.

Those who say that George Bush doesn't care about black people should pause to consider that it was the (black) mayor of New Orleans' fault that the people were left behind in the first place. He ignored the official hurricane procedures, delayed the evacuation until it was too late, and made no effort to save the poor. And, indeed, the only reason he ordered the evactuation at all was because he was asked to... by George Bush.

[Jim Walsh]

Amid all the frustration and silliness came a much-needed email today from an old friend:

Hi everyone,

(Her daughter) Aaezonah said this today while watching the news with me (Hurricane Katrina). She said that she was going to help all the people who lost their homes by building new ones. She said she was going to get glue and bricks so this way the house won't blow down. Then she is going to give her food to the ones who don't have any so they can eat.And this is all coming from a 4 year old. My little humanitarian.

Thanks, Sally and Aaezonah.

[Shannon Love]

Tom Crick,

Paranoia is by definition unwarranted suspicion. It really doesn't matter what a person or groups history is, it only matters if they have an accurate world view. Somebody might have suffered some grievous event that leaves them with a phobia or similar condition but that doesn't mean the phobia isn't dysfunctional.

People that are paranoid won't accept help or advice from those they irrationally distrust or may attack innocent people. Anyway you look at it, it is destructive.

[Warren]

Louisiana cronyism has always used race to distract attention away from the consequences of corruption. And I guess it still works. What we?re seeing in New Orleans, is not so much a question of white vs. black, as it is of civilization vs. third-world backwater. The apartheid politics that spawned an oppressed population wallowing in poverty and squalor naturally ensured that population was black. And so once again we are blinded by the politics of race and passing over the systemic problem of despotism.

[The Anti-Puritan]

No, racism did not create the discrepancy in reporting. The photos were from two different agencies with different standards for captioning.

Thanks for the info, DB. Looks like I gave the people who constantly cry wolf on racism too much credit.

Some people see racism everywhere, just as Wilson Bryan Key sees subliminal dirty words and dirty pictures in every ad.

[Tom Crick]

I have several reservations about what you're saying Shannon. I'll list two:

1) I'm not sure that large groups of people or cultures can be "paranoid".

2) I'm not sure it's irrational for black people in Louisiana to expect discrimination.

[Captain Awesome]

Quickly, someone dispatch Bill Cosby to the scene!

[Chip Breedlove]

While Kanye's comments were all over the place, using the term "paranoia" to describe the mind-set of poor black southerners is absurd.

Consider the statement by the governor of Louisiana that the troops trained in Iraq were ready to shoot to kill...who do you think they are going to be shooting at?

If I were a poor black resident of New Orleans, I would be remembering the end of "Night of the Living Dead" where the dark-hed hero is killed by the 'liberating' posse...

[Chip Breedlove]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1451906.htm

I am an African-American male, and I've been forced to submit to the indignity of police harrasment on numerous occasions during the 'best of times'.

Trust me---The 98% of of Louisiana black males that are law-abiding citizens are going to become the target of some vicious, and over-zealous law enforcement.

And when they complain, they will be called "paranoid"

[mariana]

Then maybe you need to start cracking skulls in your own community and demanding that the people who act like barbarians behave themselves instead of glamorizing, lauding and defending the very people who make your communities hellholes.

Maybe there's paranoia on both sides. Of course, the white cops aren't exactly imagining that most of the street crime in America (murder, robbery, etc) is perpetrated by young black males. Unfortunately, they're flying blind and don't know as well as the actual community members who the real criminals are. So they fuck up and innocent people get hurt.

Also, Kanye West has also stated that he thinks AIDS was invented by the White Man with Magical Powers to kill poor Africans. Paranoia? I think so.

[Sandy]

It boggles my mind how at every level there seems to have been a race to prove who was the more useless. Right now it's a tie between the feds and the locals.

I have to wonder: is there a kind of internalized racism among New Orleans residents who don't expect much out of their own, but are not terribly surprised when whites don't deliver either?

And are things really better in Mississippi or are there no spots where reporters have fond memories of getting blasted and seeing titties there to compare with the present?

[Captain Awesome]

I work in Oakland and the "AIDS was created to control the black man" idea is prety ervasive there. These people' experience of authority is that it is seeking to screw them however possible, so I can see where the ideas come from. But this place is a fucking hellhole of conspiracy theories, even more so than your average libertarian discussion group. The liberal plan to fix the situation doesn't work, and I see the proof all around me every day, people are suggesting that black culture has to change somehow. But no one has a real plan for what that somehow is. Any ideas here?

[Tom Crick]

"Any ideas here?"

Equal protection under the law would be a good place to start.

Giving more parents an alternative to subjecting their children to state schools would help.

Young urban black males are, by far, the greatest victims of our minimum wage laws, and, for that reason alone, like slavery, those laws should be abolished.

One of the best things about being a drug dealer is that no one--except the cops--cares what your race is. Calling a truce in the drug war might a) break up fewer families, b) rob fewer urban black males of the opportunity to get a good job later in life and c) get rid of a lot of the black on black violence.

[Mike]

Black culture has problems and Leftist whiteys help to perpetuate them. There, I said it.

[joe]

At "George Bush doesn't care about black people," Myers went from "visibly uncomfortable" to "full scale deer in the headlights."

First laught I've had in days.

[joe]

Everything that's happened in the last six days and THIS is what gets "Dave's" panties in a wad.

Fucking typical. Fuck you too.

[Captain Awesome]

I totally agree on equal protection of the law being a great first step. It's one of those things in the constitution and all. So apparently even old dead rich white men knew it was a pretty good idea (yes I know their other failings). And I also agree about the other things. Charter schools are starting to show up here and they're wonderfull (we've done work with Oakland School for the Arts). It's amazing the smear campaigns against the charter schools here by the teachers unions and other groups entrenched in the status quo. Although I agree with you on the drug war, the law abiding 90% of the local community has bought the drug war line hook and sinker (with the exception of some marijuana liberalization support). To most of the people here, all the problems would be gone if law could magically make drugs, guns and whitey all go away. It's a tough attitude to overcome.

[joe]

If more black people went to private schools, fewer white people would be inclined to view black disaster victims foraging for survival as looter.

OK, walk me throught this.

[Flyover Country]

I sure as hell couldn't survive without a new DVD player and TV.

Show me where somebody called a black disaster victim foraging for survival a looter. Somebody who takes advantage of the chaos after a disaster to grab electronics is looter.

[Sean]

Anybody remember the skit on SNL with Heather Locklear and Myers doing a parody of an infomercial? Myers was selling a pasta maker and Locklear was the 'host.' She kept saying stuff like "this pasta maker is so easy to use, even a puerto rican can figure it out" and there was some holocaust denial stuff. Everytime she said something like that the phone switchboard would light up, and Myers would grow more uncomfortable.

Myers had the same look on his face in that video. truly priceless

[Tom Crick]

"If more black people went to private schools, fewer white people would be inclined to view black disaster victims foraging for survival as looter."

I'm not sure how that logic works either joe.

...But I think that giving more options to people with relatively few options is a good thing.

[joe]

"Show me where somebody called a black disaster victim foraging for survival a looter."

http://www.wonkette.com

[Dynamist]

So, lets say all the wackjobs who see the situation as black punishment are right. Then what? If the conspiracy is true, why do y'all keeping taking it, generation after generation?

And all y'all that aren't black, but so deeply moved...what are you doing to break the cycle?

And, who give's a rat's ass about what celebrities think? If they're black or Irish they've got some special insight into suffering?

[Dynamist]

The only conspiracy that makes sense is coming clearer. Benson set this all up to get the Saints to San Antonio. No government could be so clever and so evil.

[Tom Crick]

"If the conspiracy is true, why do y'all keeping taking it, generation after generation?"

...I don't think they've been "taking it, generation after generation"; I think each individual grapples with racism one incident at a time.

[Sparky]

"If more black people went to private schools, fewer white people would be inclined to view black disaster victims foraging for survival as looter.
OK, walk me throught this."

Without addressing the vailidity of arguments themselves, I just want to point out that it's painfully obvious that they're not meant to address the situation in New Orleans specifically, but problems in black communities generally - both problems from outside (racism on the part of predominantly white authorities of various sorts) and from within (acceptance of paranoid theories and general cultural dysfunction). Come on, joe, you're obviously not stupid; you can do a lot better than this.

[joe]

"I just want to point out that it's painfully obvious that they're not meant to address the situation in New Orleans specifically, but problems in black communities generally"

It is, Sparky. I'm just wondering why a thread about evil things happening to black people brings out so much discussion about the alleged internal problems in black communities.

No, Sparky, I'm not stupid. I'm smart enough to notice when people are trying way too hard to change the subject.

[Phil]

Also, Kanye West has also stated that he thinks AIDS was invented by the White Man with Magical Powers to kill poor Africans. Paranoia? I think so.

You know, within my parents' lifetimes, the United States government deliberately left 400 black men with untreated syphilis while feeding them aspiring and telling them they were treating it, just to see what would happen. Within my lifetime, the government dosed black men with full-body radiation without their knowledge or consent, just to see what would happen Do you think these ideas just arise in the black community in a goddamned vacuum? Of course they don't.

For these same reasons, by the way, blacks donate blood to the Red Cross at a fraction of the rate that whites do. They don't trust the medical community, and there are well-grounded historical reasons for it.

[Thomas Paine's Goiter]

You know, within my parents' lifetimes, the United States government deliberately left 400 black men with untreated syphilis while feeding them aspiring and telling them they were treating it, just to see what would happen. Within my lifetime, the government dosed black men with full-body radiation without their knowledge or consent, just to see what would happen

So, you're old. It hasn't happened in mine, and I didn't do it, so you and the black community can stop fucking blaming me.

[mariana]

From the Guardian of all places:

"Louisiana has a large poor white population, but where have they gone? Where are the white people? New Orleans sits in a basin and hasn't the same pattern of suburbs as other US cities, but it does have them. Ninety percent of the houses in the town of Slidell, just over the bridge across Lake Pontchartrain, have been ruined. The west-lying towns, on higher ground, all have a river side, their backs to the levee. Where are those residents? They got out."

It's a damn good question. If they got out, why didn't New Orleans poor blacks? I'd never even thought to ask that question about Louisiana since I don't know much about the state except for Huey Long, Mardi Gras and corruption.

"It is, Sparky. I'm just wondering why a thread about evil things happening to black people brings out so much discussion about the alleged internal problems in black communities."

Because part of what people are discussing is the higher poverty rates in the black community as well as the gangsters shooting at rescuers, stealing tvs and raping and killing seven year-old children in the Terrordrome. Because part of what is being discussed is why order broke down so thoroughly among the majority black victims of the hurricane. Because some of the evil things being done to black people are being done to black people by other black people.

[DB]

You know, within my parents' lifetimes, the United States government deliberately left 400 black men with untreated syphilis while feeding them aspiring and telling them they were treating it, just to see what would happen.

Let's be realistic here. If blacks based their paranoia on actual empirical evidence, they'd trust white folks and fear other blacks. 94% of black homicide victims are murdered by other black people; the statistics for rape, robbery, and other violent crimes are similar. For the past generation the primary source of victimization and abuse for American blacks has been other American blacks.

And for pity's sake, I've met *Jews* with less fear of the *German* government than the average black American has for the American government. It's time to stop making excuses here; the problem isn't past wrongs, it is modern ignorance. We allow too large a percentage of blacks (and, for that matter, whites) to drift through the school system without ever learning critical thinking skills. So naturally they fall victim to these bizarre conspiracy theories, because they never learned to distinguish fantasy from reality.

[Frank]

Mariana,

Several explanations as to why the black residents didn't leave:
1. New Orleans public transit system is used by everyone and relativly effective at getting from point A to B, so if you're poor, why have a car and of course who's the majority of the poor in NO? If you're in Slidell, like anywhere in the boondocks in the US, you need a car and you will use it.
2. The whole disaster chain-of-command was FUBAR. FEMA was MIA as well as Blanco, Nagin ordered for a mandatory evacuation of NO, but then allowed people to go to the Superdome? It's one of the early contradictions that people like me didn't harp on, to our shame. Basically, the USA had all three levels of disaster relief crap out.
3. Many people in New Orleans were gifted with the ability to shove their heads way up their ass in times of danger. The hurricanes in the last 25 years more-or-less came and went and so they said they could ride this one out. I wouldn't be suprised if many of the poor black people felt the same way.

[Jon]

TWC: "JS, thanks, I guess I should have watched the video, but still, he should have made that call on day 1 not 15 minutes before air time. And I still want a list. :-)"

Well, it's not like Bush has paid anything out of pocket, either.

He's mostly flown around at taxpayer expense, praised his incompetent underlings, expressed concern for the losses of wealthy and powerful white men, and held photo ops in front of staged recovery efforts that were shut down after the camera left. Oh, and his presence in New Orleans shut down relief helicopter flights for hours.

[Jon]

As far as "why didn't they leave", don't forget the old and infirm. They can't exactly jump in the car and drive off. And before anyone suggests that family could help them, many may have no living family.

[Jon]

"Somebody who takes advantage of the chaos after a disaster to grab electronics is looter"

Bah. Let's be realistic. Every damn thing in the stores would probably be marked down as a loss anyway, and paid for by insurance.

Nobody's going to want to sell a DVD player that's been sitting in a flooded store. Even if it isn't visibly damaged.

At best, the whole store's inventory will be sold off to a liquidator at pennies on the dollar; that'd be a lot more economical than a Wal-Mart going through store inventory item by item and trying to estimate the damage to each, and setting prices accordingly.

Many looted stores probably won't even be reopening, whether they're looted or not. If they do open, it could be months, at which point many items will have lost value because newer models will have shipped by then. Even if they can reopen at some point, will there be anyone around to shop there?

Better that people be taking things from stores, than from homes, or from the arms of the owners, by force.

Under the circumstances, I have a hard time getting worked up over looting of stores that have much bigger problems than just inventory "shrinkage".

Looting after a natural disaster with long-term effects isn't nearly as bad as looting during a riot, or a short-term disruption like a blackout, where the only serious damage to the store is the looting itself.

[DB]

Bah. Let's be realistic. Every damn thing in the stores would probably be marked down as a loss anyway, and paid for by insurance

You're forgetting that a lot of the looting happened in parts of the city that hadn't flooded, or that hadn't flooded enough to make all of the merchandise useless. You shouldn't leap to the conclusion that that stuff was a write-off. For that matter, you shouldn't assume that they have insurance or that insurance will cover everything, especially considering that insurance companies are going to be paying through the nose in the coming months.

[jw]

"especially considering that insurance companies are going to be paying through the nose in the coming months."

Yup! And if THEY gotta pay thru the nose, guess how the insurees and consumers are gonna pay!

[Phil]

So, you're old. It hasn't happened in mine, and I didn't do it, so you and the black community can stop fucking blaming me.

The Tuskegee syphilis experiments ran from 1932 to 1972. The Cincinnati radiation experiments ran from 1961 to 1971. We're not talking ancient history here, dickhead. Consider the short timespan between 1972 and the emergence of AIDS, and try to approach the subject with more thought and less hostility. See if you can figure out why those kinds of conspiracy theories arose.

[Chuck]

Jon and DB:

You may or may not be correct about the looted goods having been damged. The real point is that IT'S NOT YOUR STUFF, so it's not up to you to decide that it's OK for other people to come along and take it without compensating the owners. Arguments about whether third parties should be able to take property without the owner's consent based on whether the owner "doesn't need" or "can't use" the property anymore lead down all sorts of dangerous paths.

I understand agruments for taking food based on exigent circumstances, but those are moral arguments, not legal ones. Any decision about whether to impose legal sanctions on an individual for taking things should be up to the owner and/or a jury.

[fyodor]

"Show me where somebody called a black disaster victim foraging for survival a looter." http://www.wonkette.com

Couldn't find anything about that on her first page, so in lieu of doing more research that I care to do, I'm left thinking maybe she said that and maybe you misconstrue her, I don't know.

But y'know, so what anyway, cause there's always an exception to every rule. The question is which is the rule and which is the exception. Whatever Wonkette may have actually said or didn't say, I think the very obvious rule here is that most people and most media are treating people of any color who loot food very differently from those who loot TV's. That exceptions to that might be found (and I should perhaps stress

[fyodor]

Meant to say within the parantheses:

and I should perhaps stress the might be

[chip breedlove]

"If blacks based their paranoia on actual empirical evidence, they'd trust white folks and fear other blacks..."

Unh hunh. You don't think that there is a lot more "white" paranoia about Blacks, not based on "actual empirical evidence"?

When a white lady cowers and clutches her purse because a black guy gets on an elevator with her, that's based on a "rational calculation" rather than ignorance?

The implication of too many of these posts is that "white America" is "ok" psychologically, but that "black America" is chock full of irrational, bizarre, and dangerous prejudices.

That's funny, because I've lived "down South" over the past decade (Jacksonville, Tampa, & New Orleans :-(, and I have heard about 3000% more people with "white" skin say offensive, racially provocative things, or profess racially-based, paranoid political worldviews, than blacks.

I know of far more "white" religious zanies professing quirky Bible-based politics than blacks.

I suspect that a good many of these posters know that to be the case as well.

Do you HONESTLY think that white racism is based upon some rational, statistical calculation?

In some cases sure, but in general don't you think all of that's usually an after-the-fact justification for atttudes inculcated by black-hating families?

[chip breedlove]

"Then maybe you need to start cracking skulls in your own community and demanding that the people who act like barbarians behave themselves instead of glamorizing, lauding and defending the very people who make your communities hellholes"

People who act like barbarians? You mean Paris Hilton? Pat Robertson? Jeffrey Dahmer?

Did you attempt to 'crack' any of the aforementioned 'barbarians' in the head, o righteous one?

Or is that just advice for "black" people to take (and get arrested for taking...)

[Jon]

Chuck writes: " The real point is that IT'S NOT YOUR STUFF, so it's not up to you to decide that it's OK for other people to come along and take it without compensating the owners."

Oh, I agree that it's wrong. I just don't see it as the dreadful evil some appear to see it as, under the circumstances.

And it's not like the cops rode into Enron headquarters with orders to shoot *those* looters on sight. Looting and wholesale theft get a pass when they're done at massive scales by white collar executives, but when poor black people steal a few things, it's time to shoot on sight.

[Flyover Country]

The whitecollar executive hardly go a pass.

But that aside, there is a diffenence in the crime committed at Enron and the looting in New Orleans. Nobody is made afraid to go into a posh suburb because a whitecollar criminal my bilk them out of a few bucks. Watching people break into stores and take everything in sight in broad daylight will make people very afraid to go into those areas. The damage is not only to the storeowner who's stuff was taken, but to every businessperson and employee who functions in that area because people avoid the area. Even though the dollars stolen are less, the image of lawlessness has a more wideranging affect.

New Orleans will be harmed immeasurably by the images of lawlessness in the aftermath of Katrina. It will be very difficult to rebuild the tourism business.

[andy]

"I know of far more "white" religious zanies professing quirky Bible-based politics than blacks."

Could that be because there's way more "white" people than "blacks?"

"That's funny, because I've lived "down South" over the past decade (Jacksonville, Tampa, & New Orleans :-(, and I have heard about 3000% more people with "white" skin say offensive, racially provocative things, or profess racially-based, paranoid political worldviews, than blacks."

Exaggerations don't help your case. 3000%? Give me a break. Did you live in some sort of permanent KKK rally? It's been my experience that Southern racism goes just as deep on both sides.

"Consider the statement by the governor of Louisiana that the troops trained in Iraq were ready to shoot to kill...who do you think they are going to be shooting at?"

Probably not unarmed, innocent people. To you, it seems, the fact that the people that will be shot at are black far overshadows the fact that the people who will be shot at are depraved (see shooting at hospitals, raping females in Superdome, etc.), armed, criminal fucks.

[joe]

fyodor, apparently it's off the page, but wonkette ran side by side photos of people walking through waist deep waters with stuff in bags. The caption below the white couple told us they were coming back from "finding food and water." The caption below the black man told us he had just "looted a store."

[dhex]

joe, have you seen the salon article? the photographer from the AP, which ran the looting cap, said he saw the folks he was shooting in the process of looting. the AFP cap photographer said the stuff was floating about, hence finding.

now, i think some of this is a non-story, but the elements and emotions which they tap into are a much bigger story, the actual meat as it were. which is what the folks tossing it about are actually talking about, even if the particulars of their story are dead wrong.

[chip breedlove]

"Probably not unarmed, innocent people. To you, it seems, the fact that the people that will be shot at are black far overshadows the fact that the people who will be shot at are depraved (see shooting at hospitals, raping females in Superdome, etc.), armed, criminal fucks."

First of all,while I don't own a gun or even a knife, I have been detained/frisked/made to wait while a police cruiser checked me out perhaps a dozen times in my short life.

Am I an 'armed, criminal, fuck?" Nope. I find your assertion that the unleased forces of the military, fresh from killing Iraqis (only the gulty criminal fuck Iraquis, of course) will mostly be hassling guilty people to be uncharmingly romantic.

The prospect of the American military unleashed on our people terrifies me, but this allegedly libertarian forum is ok with it.

[swill]

I have heard about 3000% more people with "white" skin say offensive, racially provocative things, or profess racially-based, paranoid political worldviews, than blacks.

Chip, I too am having a hard time with the math (not to mention your biology. Why is "white" in quotations and not blacks?). Because you have a quotient I assume you have heard at least one black say something bad. Does that mean you have heard 300 or 3,000 different "white" people profess racially-based, paranoid world views? I am not sure I would lump racially provocative into a pejorative categorization anyway. Noticing that there sure are a lot of blacks in prison may be provocative but it hardly signals a racially-based worldview.

I'm sure it all depends on the circles you run in, but I've lived down South the last 23 years (Atlanta, Tallahassee and Tampa) and the ratio of the number of times I have heard a black insult either a "white", or make a disparaging comment about "whites" would easily be 5-1. I played pickup basketball for 20 years and I heard the word nigger come out of black men's mouths hundreds of times in the presence of other blacks. I could count with Bart Simpson's hand the number of times I have heard a "white" man direct it at a black man and I would still have one finger left to pick my nose and one to scratch my ass.

[s.a.m.]

And all y'all that aren't black, but so deeply moved...what are you doing to break the cycle?

Funny you should ask. How about ending the racially biased war on drugs??? H&R has been quite consistent on this issue. In fact, ending the war on drugs would also help all races by breaking the cycle of endless civil liberties stripping legislation.

[fyodor]

joe,

Maybe the black person had been witnessed looting. And maybe the difference was based on unfair differential assumptions. Even if the latter is the case, my previous point about the rule versus the exception holds. Personally I've heard no one on TV nor heard or read anyone blame for looting food & water. But you're right that it's not always a 100% perfectly fair world. Relevant question to my mind is whether it's unfair enough to warrant what this rapper is rapping. From the bulk of evidence I've seen, I'd clearly say not.

That said, it's only human nature to want to blame others rather than yourself. So while I'd take issue with people spreading this stuff, I'd also look at it in terms of how humans behave, not a foreign and nefarious POV limited to one group of people.

[JD]

To address the whole "Black people are paranoid" issue: I think the kind of thing that a lot of people are talking about is the rumors like, "Elvis Presley was a violent racist who said 'The only thing a Black man can do for me is buy my records and shine my shoes.'" Never mind that Jet Magazine debunked that back in 1957; there are still Black people who believe it today. How do you argue, factually, with people like that?

There are lots of other examples which keep getting retold with only the details varying. The Foobar company secretly gives money to the KKK? Fashion designer John Smith said on national TV that Black people shouldn't wear his clothes because they make his clothes look ugly? Happy Fun Soda has a chemical in it to make Black men sterile? Yes, frankly, I would say that those sound like paranoid delusions. Not to say that all Black people believe these things, but they seem a lot more widespread in the Black community than elsewhere. Not that we can entirely blame them, given their history of suffering...

[andy]

"First of all,while I don't own a gun or even a knife, I have been detained/frisked/made to wait while a police cruiser checked me out perhaps a dozen times in my short life."

I'm sorry that that's happened to you, and I won't say they weren't slightly more suspicious of you because you're black, but cops don't seem to trust any young male. I've been unnecessarily harrassed too, and I'm about as Caucasian as they get.

"I find your assertion that the unleased forces of the military, fresh from killing Iraqis (only the gulty criminal fuck Iraquis, of course) will mostly be hassling guilty people to be uncharmingly romantic."

When we see reports of them harassing innocents, then we'll talk, but it's a safe bet that they'll do far more good than harm. There's a significant number of pezzi di merda in NO(admittedly mostly or all black) that probably ought to be shot in the street like dogs. Let's just hope that it's only (or at least mostly) them that get capped.

[rackmak]

I am black but I don't totally agree with Kanye,all I have to say is how the hell can FEMA and George say they never know people were in the convention center till Thursday when CNN was blowing it up all over the news!!! further more this is America how the hell can people whether black or white be left starving and suffering from dehydration for 5 frigging days!!! That what Black people get for not frigging voting Diddy tried to tell them I bet they will be voting from now on.

[andy]

"Vote or die?"

I don't think anyone's votes would have made a difference. It's not who's in office; they're all fuck-ups. In fact, the government is probably more of a hindrance than help

Diddy should change it to "Don't vote or die."

[chip breedlove]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9208195/

The beginning?

I'm thinking about 1) all of the Iraqi citizens that have been incidentally killed by American soldiers, doing nothing wrong.

and

2) I'll just quote Kevin Phillips "Yet, just as with the Department of Homeland Security, what could develop is the question mark. Civil libertarians worry about the military patrolling streets, making arrests, and conducting house to house searches, hithero a great nightmare of Anglo-Saxon law and politics."

[Johari]

I do believe that the ever present undercurrent of racism fuels many things. And this hurricane has made it all too clear.But as a Black woman, I get tired of these rappers who produce videos that depict Black men as criminals and women as whores and who wonder why this racial climate is still the way it is.While I think it is racist to portray Blacks as looting and whites as getting food,I do see videos that glorify Blacks in criminal behavior. These rappers and musicians are paid quite well and they aren't looking at who is signing their check. Is anyone holding a gun to their heads to produce these lyrics? Before Black folks point that finger, let's look at ALL the reasons why racism is alive end well. How many Jewish people refer to one another as "kike" anywhere?What happened to the things that Fannie Lou Hammer and Medgar Evers and many others fought for?Why does it take a storm to wake folks up?Blinded by the bling bling, buffoonery,and Bentleys I guess.

[DB]

Unh hunh. You don't think that there is a lot more "white" paranoia about Blacks, not based on "actual empirical evidence"?

No, I think there's a lot less. The only significant form of white paranoia about blacks is the belief that blacks are more likely to be criminals. Blacks ARE a lot more likely to be criminals -- seven times more likely, to be precise.

When a white lady cowers and clutches her purse because a black guy gets on an elevator with her, that's based on a "rational calculation" rather than ignorance?

Sounds like the same reaction Jesse Jackson has to black guys:

"There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery -- then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved" -- Jesse Jackson, 1993.

[DB]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9208195/

The beginning?

All that URL says is that some thugs shot at a repair team and got killed by police. Where's the problem?

[James Anderson Merritt]

Without speaking to the content of Kanye West's ad-libbed comments, I must express disappointment with NBC's censoring of them for the West Coast feed of the concert. What was the point? Did they think that West Coasters wouldn't be watching the East Coast feed via satellite, or that someone on the East Coast wouldn't record the broadcast and post the relevant excerpt via the web?

I was further disappointed that the 11pm local news on our NBC-affiliate station here made a big deal of the fact that Kanye West departed from his script to criticize President Bush. Yet they did not let him speak in his own words. A visual of Kanye speaking (as the mortified Meyers looked on) was flashed on screen as the local news anchor described the incident briefly, in the most vague terms possible. The main report was indeed barely longer or more informative than the corresponding, sensational teaser, which the station used before the previous commercial break! I didn't learn that the rapper had accused President Bush of not caring about black people, until I went to the web and checked out the AP feed. I didn't get to watch the sequence in question, until I downloaded it from the link published here on Hit-and-Run.

I can appreciate NBC's choice to excise the outburst from the concert itself, which was an appeal for disaster relief funds in the form of an entertainment. But I am surprised that they didn't turn right around and send the Kanye West sequence, enveloped in appropriate description and comment by actual reporters who were on the scene, to their affiliate stations for airing on the 11pm news that same night. The incident was news, and deserved to be reported fairly and accurately. Maybe it was, somewhere else, but not on the NBC-affiliate channel I watched that evening.

Chalk up another reason for the decline of the network news organizations and the rising popularity of internet news soures.

[andy]

"All that URL says is that some thugs shot at a repair team and got killed by police. Where's the problem?"

For real, Chip. You're more afraid of the trained, disciplined military than of the lawless, amoral thugs of your skin color who seek to victimize the people of NO.

[Randolph Carter]

I hope I'm never sought to be victimized.

[passingthru]

"Do you HONESTLY think that white racism is based upon some rational, statistical calculation?"

Of course not, Chip. It's based on cold, hard, first-hand experience with blacks!

How do you justify blacks killing blacks? Oh that's right...it's your culture. Whitey just doesn't understand.

[Unbelievable]

Poor ole oppressed black people - blame everything on "whitey". WTF do you people want? I noticed on the news where "blacks" have stolen several cadallics and attempted to drive them across the border into miss. One caddy was stopped and when the trunk was opened, it was full of looted prescription narcotics, alcohol, clothes and shoes. I say seal off the entire lower portion of louisiana and give it to the blacks and let them fight over what's left. It's just not worth the $$$ nor time. Poor ole oppressed blacks "I blames de white man fo my plight" I SICK OF HEARING THIS CRAP!

[andy]

"Goodnight to all you fuckers who : Love the government( libertarians who see the government as good?), the police ( yeah lets give all the power to people with guns who probably know less about the Consitution than an average public school third-grader and tell them to shoot away at starving poor people), and for some reason LOVE racial Collectivism and tribalism."

Um, sorry to break it to you, but by definition a libertarian accepts the necessity of SOME government. A court system, a military, and THE POLICE all fall into the category of necessary evils. The support of "government" employees to help in the fight against the pieces of shit down in NO right now is not mutually exclusive with libertarianism. Have you even seen the shit these people have been doing? Don't start with the "oh, but black people have historical grievances against the government, therefore the government should never attempt to limit any type of evil that they do, especially agianst their own people." Who would you rather have patrolling down there? There's women getting raped, people getting killed, people getting jacked. Somebody's got to police that, and, whatdyaknow?, that's what the POLICE are for. Are you down there helping to keep order? No? Then shut the fuck up.

[joe]

'"Do you HONESTLY think that white racism is based upon some rational, statistical calculation?"

Of course not, Chip. It's based on cold, hard, first-hand experience with blacks!'

I would just like to point out that you never see shit like this on liberal websites.

Or defense of racism based on anecdotes about black people and their stolen Cadillacs.

[Don Mynack]

Who the hell is Kanye West? Is he one of them rap fellers?