Who Blows Most in the Windy City?

Writing in the Chicago Tribune, columnist Steve Chapman offers some astute observations on the city's anti-prostitution campaign:

Politicians may think prostitution is a grim, degrading life. But prostitutes think the same of politics.

Whole thing here.

Comments

[Dave Straub]

Good column as always by Chapman.

Our local "right-wing" evening paper runs Chapman's column. I wonder if they'll pass on this one...

[Jason Ligon]

Very nice headline.

[Evan Williams]

The most important point he makes is that the Mayor, and others who complain about the violence and street presence that surrounds prostitution, are confusing the effects of prostitution with the effects of laws against prostitution. This could be applied to countless other laws against victimless, nonviolent crimes. The laws agin something do more harm than the act itself would ever inflict.

The problem is, if we ever started getting rid of the laws against victimless/nonviolent crimes, there'd be a WHOLE lotta cops and beaurocrats who would be forced to get REAL jobs. Good luck on that.

[kmw]

Wow, that's tagline material.

[Windypundit]

Aside from being unwinnable, the war against prostitution also the subject of some dubious moral posturing. I mean, how does the thinking go? "These woman are so deperate that they're reduced to selling their bodies to strangers on the street! We must do something about this problem. I know, let's lock them in cages!"

[Yogi]

One of the best arguments I've ever heard for keeping prostitution illegal came from the show, "West Wing", of all places. They were going back and forth and making good points, like making it legal would give them access to benefits like health care, etc. Donna, the character arguing against, came back with the line, "You think if you make prostituion legal, then all of the sudden prostitutes would want everyone to know they're prositutes?"

I don't like it, but she had a point.

[joe]

Did anyone else read about the German woman whose unemployment benefits got cut off because she wouldn't work as a stripper?

You're supposed to show that you are trying to get a job, and you're supposed to take any legit job that comes along, and there were all these stripper jobs available...

[kmw]

Yogi,

Like strippers, you realize that some would and some wouldn't. (Want to be ID'ed as hookers.)

[nobody special]

Who Blows Most in the Windy City?

My soon-to-be ex-boyfriend does. He'll be in Chicago this weekend. He'll give free gay blow jobs all weekend - just tell him you are in a "band" and are interested in "booking a show".

[Stevo Darkly]

Aside from being unwinnable, the war against prostitution also the subject of some dubious moral posturing. I mean, how does the thinking go? "These woman are so deperate that they're reduced to selling their bodies to strangers on the street! We must do something about this problem. I know, let's lock them in cages!"

Sad Confession #1: Your post inspired me to do a Google search for "chicks in cages."

Sad Confession #2: Found lots of sites about raising poultry.

[Yogi]

Yes, kmw, I'm sure there are. I, myself, of course, have no problems with either profession. I personally get creeped out even in Hooters, but that's just me. People are obviously willing to pay for such services, and anybody freely willing to provide said services should be able to. However, the argument is that making it legal won't get rid of the pimps and the dark side of prositution. That said, its a start in the right direction.

[linguist]

Oh Stevo, you're killing me! LOL!

[xray]

joe: fake story.
http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

[Ruthless]

Yogi,
Making it legal WOULD get rid of the dark side of prostitution, improve the quality and make it much cheaper... same as legalizing all drugs.

[keith]

Considering that many people trade sex for material objects other than money (cars, fancy dinners, jewelry, one more shot of whiskey, etc) and that is perfectly legal, perhaps prostitutes could adopt some sort of barter system by which trade is conducted with anything but money. Well, money and drugs.

A bundle of wheat for a blowjob! A couple sparkplugs in exchange for a handjob. Good stuff like that.

[Steven Crane]

Gee, Stevo... if it's (human) chicks in cages you want photos of, I'll bet I know a few who would be more than happy to allow me to photograph them...

Of course, if a certain poster from Cleveland whose name rhymes with "lackey" wanted to volunteer, that'd be cool too.

[smacky]

Steven Crane,

I'll do it, as long as you give me all of the sedatives you can get your filthy hands on.

*sigh*

Sorry, I'm in an awful mood today.

[linguist]

Smacky's from Cleveland?! Hey smacky, I grew up in Akron.

Now I know why you're not meeting the right men... 🙂

[Steven Crane]

What's the deal, smacky?

And I'm afraid you'd be disappointed with my supply of sedatives. I have three vicodin pills left, but they're for my poor aching dislocated shoulder. I think there might be some Old Style beer in the fridge, though...

[Stretch]

Well, the only experience I've had with legal prostitution was, of course, in Amsterdam. There's no way you can convince me that legalizing prostitution wouldn't solve 90% of the problems. These girls were professionals in a clean, safe environment. Or perhaps some of you have seen the HBO specials on the Bunny Ranch in NV? Again, professionals in a clean, safe environment.

Now, why don't we go cruise for whores down Atlantic Ave and see if you can spot the difference?

[Lastiko]

If you doubt that legalized prostitution won't work in reducing prostitute related crime, or related health risks, then just look to the success of legalized prostitution in Nevada at the BunnyRanch, or the redlight district of Amsterdam, or Singapore.

Those are real success stories. To bad 99% of our politicians and all of their special interests know nothing about making real success stories out of something as trivial as prostitution.

[Rhywun]

He'll give free gay blow jobs all weekend

Is he cute?

[Windypundit]

"Considering that many people trade sex for material objects other than money (cars, fancy dinners, jewelry, one more shot of whiskey, etc) and that is perfectly legal, perhaps prostitutes could adopt some sort of barter system by which trade is conducted with anything but money."

Isn't that what Peoria's Chief Settingsgaard was suggesting?

[Steven Crane]

Yeah, what Rhywun said.

[keith]

Isn't that what Peoria's Chief Settingsgaard was suggesting?

I thought he wanted to trade sex for love, affection, understanding, and marriage.

Oh wait, I see he added dinner and a movie in there as well. Well, aslong as it was a guaranteed contract. But then, movies here are $10.75 a ticket, plus the cost of milk duds and transportation -- I think I'll stick to offering wheat.

[Magic Don Juan]

Ain't no po-po gonna take away my string!

[drf]

cool Smacky and Linguist. i grew up in Chagrin.

we used to swim akron firestone and had good competition with them...

[Steven Crane]

hey drf.. I'm leaving Stevo Darkly's turf (the St. Louis area) and moving to Chicago next week. How many other Reasonoids live there?

[drf]

cool.

not sure - there are a few erstwhile posters, but besides gaius and me, there's chicago tom and windypundit... um.... will think about it!

is it employment why you're moving? do you know where ? we're in the lincoln square neighborhood. it's right by the chicago brauhaus and degerberg martial arts.

tim has my address - drop me a line.

cheers,
drf

p.s., next weekend we're visiting stevo's turf to watch our cubbies get clobbered by st louis. since st louis is the baseball mecca with the best fans, we wanted to go to busch before it gets razed.

[zach]

anyone ever see "the cathouse" on HBO? it's a TV documentary series about a legal brothel in nevada. the prostitutes in that show clearly aren't bashful about what they do for a living; they want the publicity, because it gets them business.

it's a pretty interesting show, by the way.

[joe]

Chagrin? The town's name is Chagrin?

[zach]

sorry, i didn't notice other people had already brought that up.

[drf]

joe - Chagrin Falls. it's about 20 miles east of cleveland in the snow belt. back when i lived there, it was more of a small town than a suburb. from what i've heard, it's become more of a suburb of cleveland. (but i grew up just outside there).

hey - it's cleveland. names like "depressed" "dispondant" "chagrin" "pathetic" "parma" etc. make perfect sense there 🙂

[Steven Crane]

Jobs yes, with the intention of finishing my undergrad degree (i'm 24) within a couple of years. I'll be living somewhere between Rogers Park and Edgewater.. two blocks from the lake, and one block from a Red Line stop.

I do NEED employment, desperately. Got any jobs to offer? :D?

[KentInDC]

Years ago, I was skiing at Jackson Hole and was sharing the ski-lift with a young woman who lived in Nye County, NV and was originally from Corpus Christi, TX. She said she was a teacher and gave vague answers when I asked how she ended up teaching in the middle of nowhere. It all became crystal clear later when I was reading that Joe Comforte moved his whorehouse from the Gulf Coast of TX to Nye County, NV after the TX authorities ran him off.

So, at least legal prostitutes get to ski in great locations even if they don't like to tell everyone what they do.

[smacky]

Hey, I live in Depressed Duplex Garden Apartments off of North Dismayed Rd. (in West Color-Me-Suicidal).

[smacky]

Are any of you Chicago Reasonoids going to Intonation Festival this weekend at Union Park?

[drf]

cool!

at which school are you finishing the degree?
(i'm at illinois-chicago mba/ma in econ (if i were younger (i'm 35), i'd do the phd, but argh! - so with a sigh, i'm just finishing up the master's. sigh. a tough, but necessary decision))
what fields are you interestd in? lemme think about it... but most definitely if i hear of something. it's a good question to ask! 🙂

[joe]

smacky,

There's a road in my town named "Marginal Street."

So, do you live in a nice neighborhood?

Eh...it's all right.

[linguist]

drf, Steven,

Yup, I'm in Chicago too. Let's have drinks!

[Steven Crane]

Well, at this point it'll be whoever takes me once I've got the money saved up. I'll be living on the North Side, so ideally Loyola or Depaul.... but Roosevelt and UIC are options too. (I'm also an econ major).

Shit.. as for jobs, I'll work anything. I've got eight years of railroad experience, plus two and a half years of worthless Wal-Mart experience, heh... but I was also a National Merit Scholar in my time, so I'm no dummy. Anything that pays decently and isn't below, like, Roosevelt Road will do!

[smacky]

I can beat that, joe.

In Cleveland, there is a street called "Gay" (and there is one next to it that has another suggestive name on the lines of sexuality, although I can't remember what it's called...but is apparently the topic of many jokes by the locals...)

Also there is a street in another area of Cleveland called "Random".

"Where do you live?"

"123 Random Rd."

"Is that in Anytown, USA? Har har har".

[linguist]

"I'll be living somewhere between Rogers Park and Edgewater.. two blocks from the lake, and one block from a Red Line stop."

You'll be right near me, then. What sort of job are you looking for? I'll warn you, it took my 8 months to find one here.

[R C Dean]

Now, why don't we go cruise for whores down Atlantic Ave and see if you can spot the difference?

Now that's what I call a libertarian field trip!

[linguist]

Smacky...LOL and, you should move to Chicago too. Still depressing Great Lakes winters, but *it's a real city*!

What's the Intonation Festival and why should I go?

[Steven Crane]

linguist:

Anything that'll pay rent on a studio plus other expenses will do. I'll be entirely debt-free as of September, so that's a big weight off my shoulders. I think as long as I don't have to work overnights or cook french fries, I'm cool.

[smacky]

http://www.intonationmusicfest.com/

[linguist]

Steven, I'll keep my ears open for you. You might want to keep a hold of my email address (I'm not uptight about my privacy) since it never hurts to have a contact in a new city.

[drf]

Smacky - where is Random road? where are you now?

Joe - a friend of mine (my best man!) lives on Plesant St. in Belmont. and he carries a gun. 🙂 sending him snail mail with the name "Plesant" in quotes like that would always get his goat 🙂

Steven: i don't know anything about the undergrad at UIC. I do know, of course, the econ people there, and there's some good people. if you go there, the econometrics prof is a crazy guy. he's lots of fun. i know someone who graduated from loyola, so she might be of help, too. lemme know

linguist - check yer mail 🙂

cheers,
drf

[smacky]

drf,

Random Rd. = Little Italy (Cleveland proper)

[linguist]

drf...

Hmmm. Nothing yet. Now I'm scared!

[linguist]

smacky, is there a particular band at Intonation that you're recommending?

[drf]

technology. it's [e-mail], right?

there's official one, not hidden by the happy tree friends 🙂

[drf]

... i mean, i put in my email instead of the "happytreefriends.com".

dammit. warren - pour the drinks.

[smacky]

Well, a 2-day pass is only $22, so if I recommend something that you don't like, there's probably bound to be something that you might like there (if you like indie rock whatsoever).
The Decemberists and Deerhoof for sure. (I have seen these acts live before.) Tortoise, Les Savy Fav, Head of Femur, AC Newman, Death From Above 1979, and Four Tet all seem promising. There are some bands which I know next to nothing about, but I bet it will be worth the money.

[Steven Crane]

xiu xiu will be there also, I think.

[Sandy]

The two cross-streets leading to my apartment are "Wayne" and "Newton" in that order. Makes my friend giggle like a schoolgirl every time.

[Phil]

In Cleveland, there is a street called "Gay" (and there is one next to it that has another suggestive name on the lines of sexuality, although I can't remember what it's called...but is apparently the topic of many jokes by the locals...)

Even better, and nearly on-topic, prior to the revitalization of downtown Cleveland in the late 80s-early 90s, the downtown street most notorious for streetwalker business was Prospect Street.

[Eddy]

if i were younger (i'm 35), i'd do the phd

I'm 37, and I'm doing a thoreau. I'm told biophysics ain't gonna be pretty. So just for fun should I take micro or macro economics?

So, who is this "Most" person? Why is he having trouble getting a hummer in Chicago?

[Stevo Darkly]

Perhaps Donnie Most of Happy Days?

[el jefe]

old chicago joke:

what three streets rhyme with a part of the female anatomy?

carolina ...
paulina ...
and lunt.

[Stevo Darkly]

I was away from this thread for too long. Everybody on the day shift has already gone home, but I'm sorry to hear smacky's in an awful mood.

PS: This is the closest I have to an "unusual street names" story. Two of the roads going through Forest Park in St. Louis (PDF map) are Government Drive and Fine Arts Drive. They intersect just north of the zoo, where there's a stop sign. So you could easily take a photo that shows the streets signs portraying a big red "STOP" above the intersection of "GOVERNMENT" and "FINE ARTS." I've long thought that would make a cool "conceptual" photo for an article discussing the funding of the NEA from a libertarian point of view. Maybe even in Reason.

[Steven Crane]

I've seen that, Stevo!

It gave me a chuckle.

So does driving through all three seconds of the municipality of "Charlack" on I-170. Why does Charlack exist?

[Stevo Darkly]

So Glen Echo Park doesn't get an inferiority complex?

[Stevo Darkly]

Oops, maybe Glen Echo Park is actually a park, not a municipality. Although it's tiny. That area is really fragmented into tiny little villages.

Although, as a libertarian, that's the way I think it ought to be. I should be able to declare the Sovereign Nation of My Own Body if I wanted to. (Then I could excuse myself to the bathroom by saying, "Be right back. About to have a secessionist movement.")

[drf]

hey Stevo:

st louis question:

where is a good place to eat near the stadium? my wife and i are going to the game next sat and, since this is our first time in st. louis where it's not on business, we have no clue. what does an "insider" recommend?

and Phil: yeah. Prospect ave was always mentioned growing up. one of the theaters is near there (the playhouse?). but the first time i saw hough ave (projects), we saw someone lob a brick at someone else's car. scary.

Eddy: depends on the academic level. undergrad macro i'd recommend. graduate, either one. micro doesn't start to get interesting or relevant, imo, until then. 🙂 hell, i recommend econometrics. that's the fun part. what other discipline, to quote Gujarati's intro book, has such fun terms as auto-correlation, heteroskedasticity, spurious regression, dicky-fuller test, or a worry about a unit root 🙂

[joe]

Stevo,

The city I used to work in had an industrial park that was built by the Industrial Development Authority. So of course the two streets were "Industrial Drive" and "Authority Drive."

I tell you, I've got a problem with that last one.

What road is this?

Authority Drive.

Are you sure.

Yes. I am.

[kwais]

I remember hearing in my health class about the chances of getting an STD from a hooker in NV, is like, a million times less than getting an STD from a college student. Or that a college student is a million times more likely to have and STD than a a Nevada hooker or something.

It might have been a Nevada pride class not a health class or something though.

In Carson city there is a cross street of the streets Long, and Peters. I got a picture of it.

[Stevo Darkly]

Joe: Good job. Always question Authority Drive.

[kmw]

And Stevo gets the #69 prize.

[Stevo Darkly]

drf:

Oh man, I'm afraid you're asking the wrong person. I'm not a big baseball fan, so I don't have much reason to go downtown in the neighborhood of the stadium -- maybe once a year -- and I'm not all that familiar with that neighborhood. So I can't really speak as an "insider."

But for what it's worth:

The place I've been to most often is the Broadway Oyster Bar & Grill, which is a few blocks south of the stadium on Broadway, in the Soulard neighborhood. It's kind of a New Orleans style bar and grill. When I go there, it's always on a weekday evening, and I usually sit outside on the patio, and they usually have a band playing blues music out there. I usually go there with the party animals I work with, so I'm usually in the process of either getting buzzed or sobering up when I'm there. I've never been there on a Saturday, and I've never dined inside. If you don't mind a little loudness, drinking, a certain "hole in the wall" quality, and are comfortable with the idea of eating seafood in St. Louis, I like this place.

For a can't-miss place in a slightly quieter and polished but still casual atmosphere (lots of wood), go a little west of what I consider downtown proper to the St. Louis Brewery and Tap Room around 21st Street and Locust. The food is good and so are the beers if you like microbrews. This is probably my first and safest recommendation if you don't mind driving about 20 blocks west of downtown.

If you really want to play it safe without straying too far from the stadium, there is a TGI Friday's downtown near 5th Street and Chestnut.

If you want really good burgers, albeit kind of expensive for burgers, Dooley's is pretty good. Caveat: I've only been there for lunch, years ago, and they may not be open in the evenings. (A lot of places in downtown St. Louis rely on the business of lunching salarymen and shut down after 6 p.m. or on the weekend.)

Dierdorf and Hart's is a possibility if you want a really good steak and want to pay a lot of money for it at an upscale place. I haven't been to the one downtown, but another, and it was pretty good. But quite expensive, and they might not let you in if you're wearing jeans or shorts or t-shirts. Mike Shannon's Steak and Seafood is probably similar; I hear they are good but I've never been there.

Landry's in Union Station (18th and Market Street) is a nice place, and good for seafood, at least in a St. Louisan's opinion. I've only been there a couple times. There is also a Hard Rock Cafe in Union Station.

I hear Harry's Restaurant is good, but I've never been there.

I hear Syberg's is good, in the same area as the STL Brewery and Tap Room.

Charlie Gitto's Pasta should be good for Italian, but I haven't been there in years and years and years.

You might find this a useful resource for identifying downtown restaurants and their locations:

http://www.diningstl.com/Downtown.htm

If you have your heart set on a place, you may want to call to make sure they are open on Saturday after the game.

I hope this is a little bit helpful!

[drf]

Thank you kindly, Stevo.

Will let you know what we end up doing. Appreciate the help!

cheers,
drf

[The Mad Scientist]

I have no idea where he got it, but my brother once sent me a photograph of the street signs at the corner of Bangher Av. and Leever St.

Hey, Smacky, I grew up (though that's debatable) just outside of Norwalk. My mom now lives in Strongsville, just south of the airport and my dad lives in Huron. They're always asking me to come visit and I'm always finding an excuse not to go. I blame Ohio public schools for my poor grasp of adverbs.

[wiggy]

Is Dierdorf of Dierdorf and Hart's Dan Dierdorf, the famous broadcaster and former lineman for the St. Louis Cardinals?

[Stevo Darkly]

wiggy -- yes, it is the very same.

[smacky]

prior to the revitalization of downtown Cleveland in the late 80s-early 90s,

Bwa? [shock]

This is news to me. No one told me about any revitalization.

[/shock]

the downtown street most notorious for streetwalker business was Prospect Street.

I think it still is, although I'm not an authority on the subject. I get my hoes for free.

I blame Ohio public schools for my poor grasp of adverbs.

The Mad Scientist,

I would, too. If it weren't for my 8 years of private religious grade school, I'd be just as clueless about adverbs as you. 🙂

(Ohio) public schools suck.

Funny you mention Bangher and Leever. Someone was telling me about that intersection this weekend, as funny street names came up in conversation.

[Stevo Darkly]

I attended religious schools in grade school, high school and (technically) college, and I still sometimes find adverbs confusingly.

Plus, I was an Englishly major.