Two Senators Who Make You Say "Pew"

Dueling Joe Catholics in the World's Greatest Deliberative Body And School of Dance:

In a 2002 column at Catholic Online, Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) blames Beantown high livin' for the church sex abuse scandal:

It is startling that those in the media and academia appear most disturbed by this aberrant behavior, since they have zealously promoted moral relativism by sanctioning "private" moral matters such as alternative lifestyles. Priests, like all of us, are affected by culture. When the culture is sick, every element in it becomes infected. While it is no excuse for this scandal, it is no surprise that Boston, a seat of academic, political and cultural liberalism in America, lies at the center of the storm.

Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) fires back a Boston defense:

Rick Santorum owes an immediate apology to the tragic, long-suffering victims of sexual abuse and their families in Boston, in Massachusetts, in Pennsylvania and around this country. His outrageous and offensive comments - which he had the indecency to repeat yesterday - blamed the people of Boston for the depraved behavior of sick individuals who stole the innocence of children in the most horrible way imaginable… The people of Boston are to blame for the clergy sexual abuse? That statement is irresponsible, insensitive and inexcusable. Rick Santorum should join all Americans in celebrating the accomplishments of the people of Boston.

It's not entirely clear why the issue has bubbled up like so much Santorum three years later, but apparently John Baer of the Philly Daily News resurrected the old column, and it's silly season in D.C. Whether it was Santorum or Kennedy who assaulted a priest and drank all the holy water at a Georgia church law enforcement officials will have to sort out.

Santorum, who holds the mutually exclusive beliefs that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son and that the Son was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, may not be the best man to look to for numerical scrupulousness, but Boston is almost certainly not the worst diocese in the country in terms of sexual abuse. The diocese of Covington, Kentucky is paying out the single largest settlement in the country for abuse claims—$120 million to an unknown number of claimants. That figure is roughly equal to all the settlements the much larger Boston archdiocese has paid out since 1950. Rock-ribbed Orange County, CA recently settled a class action suite for $100 million. Vice-ridden San Francisco, meanwhile, is on the lower end of the lawsuit scale.

Considering the amount of accident and opportunism involved in a class action suit, these numbers should be viewed with skepticism; and in one respect, Santorum's right: As I have argued again and again to no avail, the clergy sex abuse scandal has never been about the sexual abuse but about the mismanagement by the higher-ups. Boston is deservedly at the center of this scandal, not because it has more abusive priests but because the shameless ladder-climber Bernard Law ignored the problems in front of him. So in a sense, it is all about the culture of Boston—the culture of overweening apple-polishers and pushy meritocrats that Kennedy celebrates in his comments.

Comments

[Aaron]

I would rather have not been reminded of that slang named after Rick Santorum. Thanks Tim, there's a year or so of thought repression down the drain...

though whoever came up with that should be given a gold star and a hearty handshake.

[Happy Jack]

When the culture is sick, every element in it becomes infected.

Would it be presumptuous to assume that "every element" includes members of Congress?

[WSDave]

"it is no surprise that Boston, a seat of academic, political and cultural liberalism in America, lies at the center of the storm."

And here I thought Seattle held that title....

[m]

the culture of overweening apple-polishers and pushy meritocrats

Doesn't that pretty much encompass the entire world?

[MySoxAreKillingMe]

I dunno...

I realize that it's difficult for a Reason writer to be seen to agree with Teddy-boy, but Jeez, aren't we reaching just a little bit to identify Boston as somehow the poster town of "the culture of overweening apple-polishers and pushy meritocrats"? Ouch.

Let's just let ourselves admit that Santorum's analysis was of a piece with Pat Robertson's warning about gay tolerance drawing hurricanes to Florida and let it fade into history.

Incidently, it didn't start with Cardinal Law. Cardinal Medeiros, his humble pious predecessor, played hide-the-molestors as did HIS predecessor, JFK's favorite prelate, Cardinal Cushing. That's as far back as my memory goes but I suspect [from the nationwide repercussions] that this was a national church policy of long standing. It may be [gasp] that bringing the general crsis to a head is one more instance of Boston being first, not worst.

I'll admit that having 32.7 lawyers per acre gave Boston a leg up on the competition, but as you note, the bar moved higher [lower] as the scandal spread to the hinterlands.

Besides, putting aside the relative municipal rankings, perhaps a touch more of meritocracy,pushy or otherwise, would be a better governing philosophy than ideological purity.

[Rick]

"Santorum" as a phrase was invented by syndicated sex-advice columnist Dan Savage. And if you have never seen santorum, (which should be lower-case, by the way, as used in the blog-post) you are a free individual free to avoid the mildly unpleasant product of the conservatively pleasurable anal penetrative act.

But the substance (a frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is somtimes the byproduct of anal sex) can scare adventurous anal-sex enthusiasts. My girlfriends have been frightened of the possible consequences of anal sex, so by being prepared for a very harmless substance, especially when given a funny name, the whole ass-fucking act has been rendered more comfortable and pleasurable, and less fraught with unreasonable anxiety.

A function world-class douche Rick Santorum can be proud of.

[Jim Walsh]

Question: when is it not the silly season in DC?

[Anonymo the Anonymous]

...the mutually exclusive beliefs that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son and that the Son was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit...

Seems picky. Once you start believing ghosts are participating in the sexless conception of the Son of God, mutual exclusivity probably isn't your biggest problem.

Anonymo the Anonymous ex-Catholic

[Aaron]

Rick,

Thanks for the rather eloquent etymology of santorum. I've read a couple of Savage's books but didn't know he had his hand in making that (pun absolutely intended). Thumbs up to him. Nor was I aware of its social benefits. Carnal benefits, yes, but not social.

Santorum's comments, while usually so asinine to be rejected as "cute," are particularly hypocritical here, especially our "sick culture" lies is the era that finally made public what has probably been a much longer tradition than people are willing to admit. Some wit wrote once that "abstinence makes the cloth grow fondlers." Given my history, Dan Savage probably came up with that too.

[Stevo Darkly]

the mutually exclusive beliefs that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son and that the Son was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit

There is an error of logic here, but it is your own. Per Catholic doctrine, there are "three persons (aspects?) in one God," and all have always existed as God. In other words, the Son existed before He was conceived in human form. The conception was merely His fleshly incarnation.

By way of analogy: The Holy Spirit runs to the grocery story at the request of the Father and the Son. The Son is then fed peanut butter sandwiches through the power of the Holy Spirit. No contradiction.

Yeah, I was taught by Jesuits. In yore face, Cavanaugh! 🙂

[tros]

And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon God they made.
And the sign flashed out its warning,
In the words that it was forming.
And the signs said, the words of the prophets
Are written on the subway walls

I blame television and conspicuous consumption. It's pretty difficult not to be repressed with all the almost-but-not-quite explicit material on television these days. Incidentally, the walls of the T are plastered with ads for casinos, ipods, and Bank of America. You know how it goes. (blank)->(blank)->women. Take a guess.

Can you imagine being a legitimately devout Catholic in that kind of place? Me neither. And I did not know about that vulgar slang, but I'm glad they named it after a Republican.

[Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)]

Look, I subscribe to old-fashioned values: Love your neighbor's dog as you love your wife.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

You can't imagine being a devout Catholic in Boston?

[Tim Cavanaugh]

I realize that it's difficult for a Reason writer to be seen to agree with Teddy-boy, but Jeez, aren't we reaching just a little bit to identify Boston as somehow the poster town of "the culture of overweening apple-polishers and pushy meritocrats"?

Fair enough, but read those Kennedy comments. Holy moly, no wonder everybody hates Harvard pukes.

[tros]

You can't imagine being a devout Catholic in Boston?

I am an atheist pothead, and the decadence of that city offends me. I always thought Catholicism was about being miserable. Maybe I shouldn't say "devout". I'm sure there are quite a few Catholics who don't mind the armies of yuppies-in-training that infest the area, but I automatically think of the Puritanical types. I blame The Media.

[Shem]

This actually came up because the Good Senator representing Pennsylvania from Virginia just released a book where he repeated most of these sentiments, as well as a whole host of other ones that are morally offensive and logically fallacious, to say the least.

[dead_elvis]

On some TV news report the other day they actually referred to Santorum as a potential presidential candidate. I'm curious if he were to actually be a serious contender, would the mainstream news outlets be compelled to cover his name's alternate meaning? Because it would be *all over* the internet. Anyone on-line would be sure to run across it. Heck, probably even my parents. Which makes me think: forget the children- we need to clean up the smut so I don't have to discuss "santorum" (the liquid) with my 67 year old dad. Talk about uncomfortable.

As for his comments from the original topic, geez, that guy is sure going out of his way to be a real first class asshole.

[Verse2]

The good thing is that we can look for Santorum to be out of the job after the mid-term elections.

The sad thing is that Teddy will be with us for the long term.

[CodeMonkeySteve]

though whoever came up with that should be given a gold star and a hearty handshake.

Surely you mean given a Laurel and Hardy handshake.

[Stevo Darkly]

"I was pulled over in Massachusetts for reckless driving. When brought before the judge, I was asked if I knew what the punishment for drunk driving in that state was. I said, "I don't know... reelection to the Senate?"

-- Emo Philips

[mk]

I know for a fact (cuz I seen it) that R. Santorum has lunched with Mel Gibson. They're buds now apparently.
It's "Celebrity Gossip" but sinister.

[David]

Since when is Boston a super-decadent city?

[raymond]

the mutually exclusive beliefs that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son and that the Son was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit,

"Conceived" as in... "conceived". The HG made Mary pregnant.

Here's an explanation of the Trinity which I find makes sense. (As much sense as one is going to make.) (In this explanation, "perfection" includes "existence", since something perfect could not not exist.)

God has an image/understanding/logos of Himself. Since this image is God's, it is perfect. And since it is perfect, it exists. We call this image the "Son".

The Son and the Father possess a perfect bond, a perfect Love. Since this love is perfect, it exists. This love is the Holy Spirit.

-------
Last night on Swiss tv there was a programme (from Swedish tv) about Jehovah's Witnesses, sexual abuse, and cover-ups. Though I understand that JWs do not recognise the authority of the courts, I think the real reason behind the cover-ups is the fear of making their religion/organisation look bad.

It seems to me that this fear is what lies behind the American Catholic cover-ups, too.

What we have in both cases is a combination of family and oppressed minority. (I can develop that if anyone wants.)

After Oklahoma City I remember feeling relief when the perpetrators were found to be white guys. (Contrary to what one might think, that is not a non sequitur.)

Anyway. My point is: Cover-ups like these (Catholic and JW) are only to be expected.

[Dan]

?but Boston is almost certainly not the worst diocese in the country Covington, Kentucky... Orange County, CA ? Vice-ridden San Francisco, meanwhile, is on the lower end of the lawsuit scale.
You see, Tim, your numbers prove the ?santorium? view. The reason place like Covington have higher pay outs is because they have more people with morals, as to where vice ridden locals as Boston and San Francisco have lower settlements because their youth are depraved and like the extra curricular attention. Ah, we have a new revelation here. Liberal children (or the children of liberals) like being molested so they don?t report said molesting accounts for the lower payouts. Ooh, ooh, better yet, the molested youth BECOME liberals. Now that explains a lot, and apparently there is a lot more of this going on than we were previously aware. Wait, than logic would dictate that the Catholic diocese is responsible for the massive numbers of liberals in this country (the male liberals, anyway). Would this be akin to Dark Ages priest running covens?

[Matt Furey]

I think those sinister little liberal children *forced* the preists to molest them.

[joe]

Tim,

The statements aren't mutually exclusive if you posit that the Son existed before Mary became pregnant, and that the conception just made Him flesh.

However, I leap to your defense about the "apple polisher" comment. Why the hell did Kennedy decide to turn his denunciation of Santorum into a brochure for higher education in Boston?

Kerry's remarks, and those from SNAP (a group of priest abuse victims) are both a lot better.

Also, Kennedy called out Santorum on the Senate floor, Rick said he was going to come out and defend himself in a few minutes, and he never showed.

Buck buck ba-cack!

[ScrewtheSchilling Experiment]

Boston as a decadent city? Then where does the term 'banned in Boston' come from?

[tros]

Since when is Boston a super-decadent city?

It's the only city where I've seen panhandlers with CD players begging for batteries. The people there sweat money, and being a self-righteous asshole (lobbyist) is a respectable position in a growth industry. It's the other Babylon. You know, the one with the whore.

[Evan McElravy]

"...the mutually exclusive beliefs that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son and that the Son was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit...

Seems picky. Once you start believing ghosts are participating in the sexless conception of the Son of God, mutual exclusivity probably isn't your biggest problem."

I think Tim is trying to be too clever by half. This was the official theological basis for the Great Schism between Catholics and Orthodox back in 11whatever. The Latin version of the Nicene Creed read that the Sanctus Spritus proceeded from the father filioque, "and the son". Hence, the Filioque Controversy. Some people just can't let go of the parochial school programming....

[gaius marius]

Rick Santorum should join all Americans in celebrating the accomplishments of the people of Boston.

far be it from me to support santorum, but this shallow effusivity from teddy the decadent is one of those mild cultural signposts on the road to decay. when's the last time boston did anything creative of note? what are they "accomplishing"? the big dig? fourth of july fireworks?

the plain silliness of ginblossom's words, which one wishes were true but aren't, are a sort of validation of santorum's comments, mr cavanaugh, i agree.

Would it be presumptuous to assume that "every element" includes members of Congress?

no it wouldn't, mr jack -- but be sure to include the presidency as well.

[joe]

gaius,

Does inventing and sustaining the biotech industry count?

How about the successful re-introduction of beer that doesn't taste like piss to the American market?

[gaius marius]

Does inventing and sustaining the biotech industry count?

taste of hubris, mr joe? 🙂 i'm not slamming boston particularly, fwiw -- i'd say the same of chicago, where i live, an immodest commercial city on a dead trade route.

[CAT_Violations]

Yeah gaius, don't they know that it's the rise of individualism that's responsible for the moral decadence and eventual collapse of civilization?

If everyone went to church and made sure to join and participate in some other traditional institutions everything would be hunky-dory. I think all individualists are retarded, or at least mentally ill. They might even have adult consensual sex. But I think if we get a vigilante group together that believes in hunting down and mutilating the men who had consensual sex with their adult daughters we can do some good.

[gaius marius]

How about the successful re-introduction of beer that doesn't taste like piss to the American market?

last i saw, bud light and miller corruption-of-the-language "lite" were running away with the american liver. and that'll last only so long as someone doesn't invent something yet more watery and sweet.

taste isn't something america has ever excelled at, sadly.

[Isaac Bartram]

How about the successful re-introduction of beer that doesn't taste like piss to the American market?

You can't mean Sam Adams, or is there actually a good beer made in Boston?

[joe]

I will hunt you down and slaughter you like a goat for that, Issac.

[Phil]

Winning the World Series after nearly a century? To the extent that that's "creative," which is not much, but still.

Boston has been and still is responsible for a lot of great bands. In the heyday of the 90s' left-of-the-dial scene, you couldn't spit without hitting a band who had some connection to Boston and the Fort Apache studio.

[R C Dean]

Whoa, joe, going all jihadi on us.

Sam Adams is not bad. When it first hit the market, it was a frickin' revelation. People are spoiled nowadays (ooh, channeling gaius there. Sorry.) with all the micro- and craft brews, but Sam Adams was the first to plow that ground.

[linguist]

Hey! Gaius!

Bash Boston if you must, but leave Chicago out of this! 🙂

[Tim Cavanaugh]

I will hunt you down and slaughter you like a goat for that, Issac.

Easy, joe. No bar fights or beer muscles in the comments. This is a respectable licensed establishment.

[Steven Crane]

Sam Adams isn't even MADE in Boston. It's made in Pennsylvania somewhere.

[drf]

such east coast bias. what about anchor steam? the first and best national micro brew.

plus, sprecher, new glarius, bells, etc. are better than sam adams is now. sam adams is good for white zin drinkers or people who "like soccer" where that means ManU and think that bass and harp are "good".

and east coasters: Yuengling is "america's oldest brewery".

[joe]

You can't just say "Sam Adams isn't good." Sam Adams makes about a dozen different varieties, including a light beer that's actually decent, a stout that stacks up nicely against Guiness, and a great Summer Brew.

What am I, and ad company? First Priuses, now Sam Adams.

[drf]

yup joe - there's only one variety, to my knowledge, i've not tried (including the ancient lighthouse), and i'm not a fan. and fat bastard's stool sample stacks up against guiness, imo. add that one to my "bass and harp" rant. and ManU.

but then again, i'm a fan of central european brews, which is in a different style 🙂

[Eric II]

Those curious about the origins and influence of the Beantown blowhardism epitomized by Kennedy's comments might want to read E. Digby Baltzell's Puritan Boston and Quaker Philadelphia. I can't say that I agree with all of its conclusions (though gaius marius would probably be more sympathetic), but it's a pretty good work of sociological history.

[Isaac Bartram]

Easy, joe. No bar fights or beer muscles in the comments.

Thanks, Tim.

joe, if you calm down I'll buy you a Sammy and have one myself. But being better than Budweiser does not make it great.

but then again, i'm a fan of central european brews, which is in a different style 🙂

Perhaps a Budweiser from Budweis, then.

[joe]

Sorry, chief, I'll keep it down.

[drf]

you bet, Issac. Cesky Budejovice is a neat town. My friend is a lector at the university there. Budvar is tasty. 🙂

[Stevo Darkly]

I will hunt you down and slaughter you like a goat for that, Issac.

Careful! The man can fight like a giraffe!

[drf]

Stevo!

what a terrible metaphor. You are hereby condemed to listening to Lackoff and Johnson go over their work on the matter. Then you will report to our building project that's behind schedule and over budget and have joe show you how to feed your genitals to the sharks.

[B.P.]

Covington, KY and morals? Hah! The place was the 20th century's home of vice. And if it's beer in Boston, make mine a Tremont (or Harpoon... that's made in Boston, right?).

[joe]

LOL Stevo!

[Tim Cavanaugh]

There is an error of logic here, but it is your own. Per Catholic doctrine, there are "three persons (aspects?) in one God," and all have always existed as God. In other words, the Son existed before He was conceived in human form. The conception was merely His fleshly incarnation.

I've always considered the story of St. Augustine and the little boy digging a hole on the beach to be the tell on this one. If even he couldn't figure it out...

[Isaac Bartram]

Geez I'm glad joe's chilled out. Had me scared for a minute:)

[drf]

that's right, Issac - but Joe probably eschewed Tim's reading and skipped to "portrait of the artist" sermon scene where the priest describes what "eternity" is - where the bird takes a grain of sand from every beach and every desert, etc. one grain at a time and moves it far away...

[Stevo Darkly]

Tim,

At St. Sabina Grade School and St. Thomas Aquinas High School, I think the teaching on the Trinity went something like this:

"We say there are three persons in one God. What does that mean? That's what we call a 'mystery.' "

Anyway, I think even an atheist would agree that if there's a Supreme Being infinitely above us, there's some things about it we're never going to figure out.

Heck, I'm sure my dog never figured me out, and we were practically on the same level, relatively speaking. Like pants. Do dogs understand pants?

[Jim Walsh]

I've always hated that St. Augustine On The Beach story. Personally, if I were Augie, I'd have throttled that self-righteous little shit...

[Eric the .5b]

So...The Trinity is an incomprehensible mystery beyond the ken of human beings.

If you're an awesome diety who presumably knows lots of things beyond human understanding - and who has an utterly correct grasp of what "human understanding" is - why bring this unnecessary incomprehensibility to human attention? Why not cleanly hide the implementation? "I'm God. That's My Son."

[Stevo Darkly]

That's exactly why I used to refuse to wear pants -- for fear of confusing my dog.

Or ... maybe human beings will someday grasp the meaning of the Trinity ... but we need 50,000 years to mull it over first.

Eternal Beings take the long view like you wouldn't believe...

[Tim Cavanaugh]

Here's a mystery I've been pondering all my life: Who are the extras on Fantasy Island? Every storyline has one or two main characters, who run into a bunch of minor players while acting out their fantasies. Presumably these would all Fantasy Island employees; but they're not, because if any kind of relationship develops between the hero and somebody he meets in the course of its fantasy, it invariably turns out that the other person is also a Fantasy Island customer having her own fantasy fulfilled. You could see that being possible in a case where a man has a Robin Hood fantasy, and after it's over, while he's saying goodbye to Mr. Roarke, he meets the woman who played Maid Marian just as she's leaving the island, and they hook up. It makes sense that a woman might have a Maid Marian fantasy because she's a major player. But what about, say, when a guy does a Wild West fantasy, and in the course of it falls for a schoolmarm or a hooker with a heart of gold. Are there really that many women who want to play Old West schoolteachers or can can girls?

I saw one episode where a guy has a fantasy of being a Puritan in Old Salem, and in the course of the episode he meets a pretty young widow. The villainous towne elder, played by a pre-ironic Leslie Nielsen, tries to get with the widow, and when she turns him down he brands her as a scarlet woman, and they're going to hang her. Everything works out, of course, and during the final goodbye he meets the widow, who is another customer, and the two get on the plane together happily. Are we really supposed to believe some woman had a fantasy of being a powerless, falsely accused widow in colonial times? So what about Leslie Nielsen (who doesn't show up at the end): Is he a Fantasy Island employee? What if the hero and the widow had never met up?

So I talked it over with a friend who fancies himself an expert on seventies television. His argument: "Mr. Roarke has powers that aren't for us to understand."

Me: "Then all the other people the hero meets are Roarke's employees?"

"No, they're customers, but Mr. Roarke is always working the scenario. You know how they'll have these interstitials, where Mr. Roarke and Tattoo are going from one place to another, and Tattoo's wearing a cap and bells, but they don't say what that particular fantasy is? That's where he's arranging things."

"So when special guest stars Ray Bolger and Bert Lahr and the guy who played the Tin Man play World War II buddies reliving their greatest adventure, you're telling me there are a bunch of people out there who spent whatever a Fantasy Island vacation costs just to be a subaltern in the Wehrmacht? Come on, even a neo-Nazi would make himself at least an SS officer."

"Some are employees, but you never know who's who. Like, you see how they never make it clear how big the island is? That's all part of the mystery of Roarke's powers."

"But then, when some woman has a fantasy of being Anastasia in exile, who is the idiot whose fantasy is to play the simple but goodhearted garcon du cafe she finds happiness with? Because he turns out to be a customer too."

"Well, it's very mysterious..."

Clearly, he was just trying to sound magisterial. This wasn't the answer.

Then one day, I was walking on the beach, trying to figure it all out, when I saw Tattoo pouring water into a hole in the sand...

[joe]

That was thirty seconds of my life, Tim. I want them back, dammit.

[drf]

and don't forget, Tim, that each fantasy had a bit of ...danger.

how about the fantasy, courtesy of Bloom County's spoof, where they fantasize about mr. roarke driving off the cliff in his 1982 chrysler cordoba with corinthian leather.

loved wrath of kahn.

Joe - in certain situations, that could be a really cold thing to say. grin.

[kevrob]

Savage's Santorum joke isn't exactly original. In Myron, Gore Vidal replaced certain ribald words with the names of Supreme Court Justices who had voted in the majority on an obscenity case.

Kevin

[Stevo Darkly]

My musings on Fantasy Island:

1) When the series was actually running, I remember reading speculation somewhere (possibly in TV Guide magazine), that Mr. Roarke was actually some kind of supernatural being, possibly an angel. He certainly had some kind of knack for looking into people's hearts and seeing what they really wanted, as opposed to what they thought they wanted. If he had that power, he could also arrange for the people who really needed to meet, to meet.

2) "Are we really supposed to believe some woman had a fantasy of being a powerless, falsely accused widow in colonial times?" A couple things. First of all, ever hang out with some Renaissance Festival folks? They like to dress up and seem to be disproportionately kinky. Second, although it's not very PC or empowering or the kind of thing that NOW would approve of, there are some women who do have fantasies about being in, and/or rescued from, dire distress. Not all women, certainly, but somewhere between 0.005% and 75%, as far as I can tell. Not that I'm an expert or anything.

(Speaking of which, I do remember one episode in which Adrienne Barbeau had her hands tied behind her to a stake, and she kept lunging forward in her deeply V-necked dress to show amazing cleavage, before ultimately being rescued by some nerdy guy who thereby proved he was a Real Man. That punched several of my atavistic buttons. But I digress.)

3) Maybe some of the Fantasy Island customers of lesser means agreed to play bit parts or supporting roles in exchange for discounts on their own fantasies.

"So you want to be Hitler, eh? I tell you what. First spend a couple weeks as a regular German infantry officer in someone else's fantasy, and then I will give you your Hitler fantasy for half-price, eh? Plus, we will need a couple weeks to round up the Julie Andrews lookalike you want too."

We never hear of such arrangements, however, because it would have been boring to have an episode about somebody playing a less glamorous role in order to get their discount.

Those are my ret-con theories about Fantasy Island.

PS: I think it would be cool to start a Fantasy Islands airline. At the end of your flight, a French dwarf would stand by the exit and wave passengers toward the door while urging them to "Deplane! Deplane!"

[Tim Cavanaugh]

Now I know you really were educated by the Jesuits St. Ignatius Loyola himself couldn't have come up with a better line of blarney. Too bad they didn't have a spinoff Fantasy Island: Discount! series.

I still don't believe even the most perverse woman would fantasize about having her vitue solicited by Leslie Nielsen...

[Stevo Darkly]

Thank you, Tim.

I also read a lot of science fiction, and watch a fair amount of the TV/movie version. Especially for the latter, I am used to thinking along the lines of "How could this seemingly improbable and bizarre situation have come about?"

I still don't believe even the most perverse woman would fantasize about having her vitue solicited by Leslie Nielsen...

I read an article in a some magazine (a legit mainstream magazine, I forget which one) about a woman who used to fantasize about being Johnny Carson's sex slave. And I used to know a girl who had once similar fantasies about Mickey Rourke -- and she hated Mickey Rourke. So who the hell knows? I don't. [/Holden Caulfield]