That's Our Bill
The Huffington Post reports on yet another clever and thorough analogy on the part of Bill O'Reilly:
The latest dispatches from the Natalee Holloway case in Aruba in a moment. But first, what do The New York Times and the mafia have in common? That is the subject of this evening's "Talking Points Memo".
The answer to that question is both The Times and organized crime routinely engage assassins. In the case of the newspaper, they are propping up character assassins.
I must confess, I do like the image of Bill Keller lying in wait, sweat on his brow, nervously clutching at piano wire as his mark approaches.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Don't keep us in suspense here. Is Nancy Holloway still white?
Never in all the history of the universe has there been an age as addicted to hyperbole as this one.
Todd, only a Nazi would say such a thing.
Sean Hannity's been beating this drum since the story broke. Defense attorney says suspects say Holloway was drunk and had "sexual contact" with the Dutch guy in the back of the car. Hannity screams they're "smearing" the girl, a straight-A student, positioning themselves to blame her once it's inevitably discovered that she was murdered.
First, a teenager in Aruba, drinking and making out with the locals? Yeah, that's unheard of. Particularly since, as experts like middle-aged conservatives know better than anyone else, reputedly smart high schoolers have absolutely no interest in drinking or sex, much less on nominally-chaperoned trips to Aruba. Must be special classes in law school devoted to making up ridiculous, implausible lies like that.
Second, since when is saying a teenager may have (legally) consumed alcohol and kissed/fondled some guy on a tropical vacation a "smear"? It's only dickheads with FOX News shows who give it that connotation. And if she was drunk, would anyone sane assign blamed for being murdered and possibly raped to her? Wouldn't that just be more evidence that she was a vulnerable potential victim, thus more likely to be targeted by someone who wanted to rape/murder someone, and therefore bolster the prosecution's case?
In summation... fuck those guys.
Hear hear.
On the other hand, this is probably the best material Al Franken could have ever been provided as a comedian. Anyone interested in betting on how long it'll be until we see this made into a book a la "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot"?
"And if she was drunk, would anyone sane assign blamed for being murdered and possibly raped to her?"
That seems to be what you are doing, despite your disclaimer anonymo.
The 80's might be over, but it's still not okay to rape and murder a girl who got drunk and flashed tail.
The defense attorneys are already working the, she-wanted-it defense. And anonymo thinks it's bullshit that Bill O'Reilly tries to clumsily defend her? Conservative defends the slut and the opposition defends the slut-defense for the rapist/murderer. One more indication that the political coin has flipped. Next up, Dems promote small, responsible govt in 2006.
Are you defending the woman in question by calling her a slut?
Yes Rich, even sluts don't deserve to be raped and murdered, despite what you might think. Calling her a slut acknowledges any slut like behavior she might be accused of while making it clear that that's not free reign to rape and murder her. Sorry if you disagree. And if you do, fuck you, stay away from my slut daughter you asshole.
You must admit, it's not often you see the phrase "clever and thorough" and the name "Bill O'Reilly" in the same sentence...
Those calling the girl a slut are implying she was non-white or something. Which is ridiculous, because if that were true, where's the story?
As O'Reilly points out, the NYT has not only done 24 stories on Air America Radio, they also soft-soaped the Franken Talkers meltdown. Maybe you should read the whole thing instead of just going off the first paragraph of what he said.
"That seems to be what you are doing, despite your disclaimer anonymo."
It wasn't, at least it certainly wasn't my intention, and I'm sorry if that was unclear. Nor do I think that's what Rich was doing, but that's his business.
What I was saying was that A) Given what we know at this time, the reported claims of the suspects that the victim was drunk are quite likely true. 18-year-olds on trips to Aruba often drink - regardless of their reputed academic prowess and general good-girlishness. The opportunity to do so is one of the main attractions to such trips (and I'm speaking from knowing hundreds of people who took such trips within the last five years), and many teenagers don't need much incentive to drink (ditto). Nowhere did I imply that this was improper; I in fact said that the reactions of the aforementioned pundits, calling such a claim a "smear" were misguided because they read charges of impropriety into what I perceived as a description of perfectly normal, common teenage behavior in that environment. Those pundits cited the girl's sterling reputation as evidence that she wouldn't have engaged in such behavior, and I think anyone who's ever been to high school can come up with many examples of people who match that description, but also drank and had sex. The two are hardly incompatible.
B) If said charges are true, they don't constitute a valid excuse for whatever someone may have done to the victim. Those who retort with knee-jerk accusations of "character assassination" are either constructing straw men out of their (natural) zeal to defend the girl; or if those making such claims are actually attempting to sully the victim's reputation as a means of lessening their own guilt, they're not worth arguing with, and there is no danger that reasonable people will agree with them.
C) When I said that an intoxicated person makes an easier target for a predator, I wasn't assigning blame to the victim. I explicitly renounced that. Hearing- or vision-impaired persons also make easier targets; by no means do I think they deserve it. No one familiar with the effects of alcohol intoxication can deny that a drunk person is easier to attack, and this is borne out by pretty much everything we know about date rape. Even though a drunk person, unlike the otherwise handicapped, voluntarily induced their state of heightened vulnerability, I don't believe they share responsibility for their fate that occured through the predatory actions of others who violated the victim's rights for their own amusement. If you think I do, you are factually mistaken about my beliefs, which you no longer have an excuse for given this lengthy, explicit rejection of the positions you ascribe to me, or you are committing the straw man fallacy, as I suspect O'Reilly et al. are.
Let me further state that if the accounts from Aruba of the suspects' changing their stories are true, they've got guilty written all over them, and I hope they get the Aruban or Dutch equivalent of the chair. Hope that clears things up.
What's wrong with sluts? Sluts are great!
Seriously, how screwed up do you have to be to be angry at a girl that wants to get down?
Sluts, both male and female, make life a lot more enjoyable for the hard up. They should be thanked for their generosity, for they often screw those that really need it. Sluts are only bad when they continue their slutty ways after marriage. Then, they become lying, cheating spouses, which deserve nothing but scorn.
It's sad that this young woman just out to enjoy her life was unfortunate enough to get involved with evil. If she was murdered, the freaks responsible should be drawn and quartered (very slowly), and I do mean literally.
Of course, we wouldn't even know about this had she not been blonde and white. (This is not an accusal of Americans in general, but of the lame-assed MSM, which seems to get worse every day.)
"fuck you, stay away from my slut daughter you asshole."
Hey, isn't that the title of a movie they run on Oxygen/Lifetime?
She's not a slut, she's just popular.
She's not a slut, she's just popular.
Actually, she is a free and independent spirit. And, a woman who knows how to take charge and get what she wants. She would have made a good CEO one day. RIP.
I've heard people on H&R refer to character assassins all the time. I don't get it. So what?
Oh and Todd,
Nice!
FYI, and actually OT, some guys appear to define "slut" as:
Slut -- n. 1) A girl who will sleep with anyone but me. 2) Any girl I really want to sleep with who won't sleep with me.
And, nice one, Todd.
Anonymo, thanks for the defense, but let me handle that myself:
Feminazi, feel free to go intercourse yourself; sorry that your first inclination was to assume that I think "she deserved it".
🙂
By the way, I'm glad an Aruba-related item made H&R, because I've been dying for an excuse to post this great quote I read a couple days ago:
--------------------------------
ORANJESTAD, Aruba Jun 14, 2005 -- Aruba authorities released two former hotel security guards detained after Natalee Holloway went missing but continued to hold three younger men who took the Alabama teen to a beach before she disappeared.
Officials who confirmed Monday's release of Antonius "Mickey" John, 30, and Abraham Jones, 28, did not offer any clues to solving the mystery of Holloway's disappearance on the Dutch Caribbean island during a student trip. ...
"I'm very happy but also disappointed," John said by telephone of his detention since June 5. "I knew from day one that I was innocent."
----------------
Personally, whenever I'm accused of something, it takes me up to a week to figure out whether I'm innocent or not.
BUUUURRRRRRRPPPPPPP!
Our government also gives half a billion a year to the thug Jordanian regime as a pay off to the Israeli government for non-aggression. The regime's many transgressions against decency include anti-Jewish discrimination laws.
http://www.mirei.com
These numbers don't sound that good to me. It looks like about a quarter of Palestinian Arabs still want to push Israel into the sea. That's more than enough to cause trouble for years to come.
Cedar Park Remodeling Companies
I also know that suspicion of Hezbollah involvement has been circulating in the political class here in Beirut since the killing. One very senior politician told me a few weeks after Hariri's death that "I do not discount Hezbollah involvement
Abilene Roofing Contractor
It was very well researched and I enjoyed it very much. I bookmarked your site and will be back very soon, I look forward to reading some interesting posts! Thanks, Whitney
Round Rock Door Contractors