But Can We Still Have the Folk Mass? (Anti-Rock Pope Edition)

Via Arts & Letters Daily comes this Asia Times account of the new pope's view on the noise that the kids today mistake for music:

Rock music seeks release through liberation from the personality and its responsibility…[it is] among the anarchic ideas of freedom which today [1985] predominate more openly in the West than in the East. But that is precisely why rock music is so completely antithetical to the Christian concept of redemption and freedom, indeed its exact opposite. Hence music of this type must be excluded from the Church on principle, and not merely for aesthetic reasons, or because of restorative crankiness or historical inflexibility.

Whole thing here. And before any of us gets too judgmental, please note that the future pope was speaking in 1985, which saw the release of Billy Joel's Greatest Hits, Vols. 1 and 2

If John Paul II was the rock star pope, then Benedict XVI is shaping up to be more of a Sinatra, I'd say. (Francis Albert, after all, was the one who declaimed in 1957, "Rock and roll smells phony and false. It is sung, played, and written for the most part by cretinous goons. By means of its almost imbecilic reiteration it manages to be the martial music of every sideburned delinquent on the face of the earth.")

Well, what about the folk and endless choruses of "Let It Be"? From another article:

Benedict XVI rejects the "folk" Mass on the simple grounds that God, rather than the "folk", is the actor in the Mass.

That bit here.

No word yet on the proposed rap mass, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's black smoke on that one too.

Comments

[Jeff]

Ah, I think it's time for an All Christian Rock Weekend.

[Stevo Darkly]

I'm still keeping my Jesus Christ Superstar CDs.

[joe]

Vatican II established the doctrine of "con-celebrants," in which the congregation are as essential a part of the mass as the clergy.

Of course, Pope Rat thinks Vatican II was a big mistake.

[thoreau]

You know, if the Pope keeps up with this, he might succeed in making Christian rock "cool".

[Benedict XVI]

Pope Rat thinks Vatican II was a big mistake

Nonsense. I was a key player in Vatican II, and since I am Infallible there is no way that Vatican II could have been a mistake.

[Stevo Darkly]

Ben16, you don't understand the concept of "papal infallibility." Popes are only considered to be infallible when officially speaking ex cathedra on matters of morals and doctrine, which has only occured twice in the entire history of the Catholic Church. Maybe three, tops.

[Stevo Darkly]

Hey, it just occurred to me that one of the rats in the book/movie Willard was named "Ben." What an eerie coincidence.

[B.P.]

Hmmm... the trash heap of pop culture is just another sign of the individual turning away from responsibility and embracing anarchy.

Did Gaius Marius get elected pope?

[Jennifer]

"Christian rock doesn't make Christianity better. It just makes rock worse."
--Hank Hill

[Benedict XVI]

Ben16, you don't understand the concept of "papal infallibility."

Nonsense! I'm infallible! 🙂

[Xboy]

Does this mean no more "Kumbaya"? Please let it be so.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

When I was forced to go to mass as a kid in the 70s-early 80s, I preferred going Saturday nights because the services were usually a little shorter, it got the obligation "over with", and it was nice to sleep in on Sunday.

But Saturday night meant FOLK SINGERS. Hell. Pure hell. The audio equivalent of encasing one's balls in liquid nitrogen and then smashing them free with a hammer.

[Pope Rat]

You bet. And none of that huggy handholding crap, either. Fags.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

...and I hate when that happens..

[kwais]

"And none of that huggy handholding crap, either. Fags."

I like this new pope

[joe]

"Peace be with you."

"Go get your vagisil, nancyboy."

[Lowdog]

I love how godless I am! And if the pope don't like rock, I know he wouldn't be "down" with the crazy electronic music I've got bumpin' through my speakers right now. Not to mention the fact that there's all those drugs at those "rave parties" - gasp! 🙂

But what I really want to know is, what does the puppy pope think about rock, rap, and/or electronic music?

[dhex]

i want to know what he thinks of "papal breakdance" by psychic tv.

[Marty Haugen]

joe,

The vagisil comment was priceless. But Pope Benedict was one of the big players in Vatican II. I think he would say that it's been implemently badly in some ways, but hardly a "mistake".

[SPD]

I have it on good authority that Benedict is a closet Michael Bolton fan.

Hmmm.

Maybe Jack Chick was right -- the Pope is the Anti-Christ!

[joe]

What's a puppy pope?

[thoreau]

Puppy Pope Rex Rover (sorry, can't remember which number) has posted in other pope-related threads.

[Stevo Darkly]

I'm not as good about attending Mass as I used to be. Thank God several of the Catholic churches around here now offer a last-chance Mass at 5 p.m. on Sunday -- sometimes known as "the sinners' Mass" for folks who can't get out of bed before noon on Sundays.

But I've learned to avoid the 5 p.m. Mass at one of the churches near my office. Turns out it's a special "teenage mass," heavily attended by the parish's religious-minded teens, who also provide the folk-rocky music. The music doesn't suck so bad, but during the "sign of peace" the teens (all regulars who know each other) all hug each other. And the guys (who are probably uncool geeks) take the opportunity to hug as many of the girls (who tend to be pretty cute) as possible. I think all the songs and the hugs add a good extra 30 minutes to the service. Not that I should really blame the horny little bastards. But I do. (I'm feeling curmudgeonly today.)

[SPD]

Scratch a rock-music-hating pope, find a frustrated Jimmy Page wannabe. You know it's true. He's been practicing Stairway to Heaven without success since 1987.

[His Howliness the Puppy Pope R]

(Sorry, I just now noticed the clamor for me to appear and make a statement.)

I say, make a joyful noise unto the Lord, bitches!

And doesn't anyone remember the religious rock-opera Dogspell? That was one of my favorites.

Especially the hit song " Bay by Bay."

[SPD]

Habemus Puppem!

[gaius marius]

Turns out it's a special "teenage mass," heavily attended by the parish's religious-minded teens, who also provide the folk-rocky music. The music doesn't suck so bad, but during the "sign of peace" the teens (all regulars who know each other) all hug each other.

i still maintain that there's hardly a decent catholic in america, mr darkly, and this is why.

[dhex]

hugging teenagers?

[thoreau]

I say, make a joyful noise unto the Lord, bitches!

Your Howliness, I just burst out laughing for a few minutes when I read that. Much needed stress relief, let me tell you!

[Penry]

Rock music is about sex. The entire genre is devoted to teenagers and their eternal quest for sex. The very word "rock" is a euphemism for sex.

So why exactly should it be a surprise that the Pope is not a fan?

[gaius marius]

no, mr dhex -- or at least not just that -- but the constant contravention of catholic tradition and doctrine to follow the latest self-indulgence.

it's regrettable enough that the mass is in english and people read and interpret the bible for themselves outside canon law exegesis -- vatican 2 was a concession to a basically protestant individualism, imo, and a dilution of the catholic church's real strength. but i think it's virtually impossible to be a decent catholic in a society as self-obsessed as the west. the appeal of the church is in community, law, tradition and mystery -- which is why it does much better in the third world.

[Former Altar Boy Jim Walsh]

Benedict XVI rejects the "folk" Mass...

Does this mean that the new pontiff won't be hanging out with JPII's pal, the armless guy who plays folk-rock guitar with his feet?

No word yet on the proposed rap mass...

I like Altar Boys and I cannot lie/You other padres cannot deny...Ok, I'm bored with it...

Scratch a rock-music-hating pope, find a frustrated Jimmy Page wannabe.

There's a joke about mackerel-snapping in there somewhere but hey, I've already racked up enough time in purgatory...

[dhex]

gaius, i think there are a lot more people out there looking to sublimate themselves to something greater than you would think. your blindness may stem from the fact they're sublimating themselves to some truly fucked up shit (american empire (TM), etc)

i'm pretty sure the church broke its own back in america with the molestation scandal, at least on the east coast. it had very little to do with english translation bibles and everything to do with the sublimation of the small to the great.

[gaius marius]

the proletariat is always looking for a leader to acknowledge, right? i think there can be little doubt of that. but there are different ways of going about that, and different leaders to suit.

catholic leadership is (in its purest form) principled, rigid and very slow to change -- properly institutional.

modern american leadership is all about producing quick-fix facile "solutions" that will (or can be made to by propaganda) appeal to the judgement of the masses, regardless of what law or doubt or reality that might stand in the way. the leadership has been effectively proletarianized; institution is something we talk about. including yourself in something like that isn't sublimation at all.

and its telling, i think, that half the country can't abide by even easy, false community like that -- regardless of whether its clinton or bush in office.

[grylliade]

You know, if the Pope keeps up with this, he might succeed in making Christian rock "cool".

A (very) small amount of it already is. Look up the 77's sometime ? they covered Led Zep's "Nobody's Fault But Mine," and their lead singer counts Jerry Garcia as one of his biggest influences. The Choir is pretty good too, mostly love songs and introspective songs about faith, not so much of the "we're trying to make Jesus cool" vibe. And, of course, the Prayer Chain . . . their last album, Mercury, is absolutely awesome. Once again, not so much of the self-conscious trying-to-be-cool, but rather some geeky guys trying to make good music.

I'll grant you, though, that most Christian rock is just awful. This coming from someone who listened to Petra almost exclusively all through high school . . . *shudders*

[crimethink]

catholic leadership is (in its purest form) principled, rigid and very slow to change -- properly institutional.

modern american leadership is all about producing quick-fix facile "solutions" that will (or can be made to by propaganda) appeal to the judgement of the masses,

You're comparing the ideal to the actual. Speaking as a Catholic, there ain't much Catholic leadership around "in its purest form." The vast majority of bishops are at best incompetent or at worst corrupt; and this has been the case whenever the Church has not been persecuted.

The pre-Vatican II Church may have looked vigorous and pure from the outside, but was rotten to the core inside. Those who blame all its troubles on a council that really didn't change much doctrinally, are like those who curse the five-minute-long thunderstorm that melted their vast, impregnable fortress.

[Rhywun]

So why exactly should it be a surprise that the Pope is not a fan?

It's not, really. It's also no surprise that he doesn't have a friggin' clue what rock is really about.

[kevrob]

It's been been almost 30 years since I took in a mass, weddings and funerals aside, but the idea of the folk or folk-rock version causes shivers to travel down my spine. I always got a good chuckle from the Saw Doctors' I Useta Lover:

I useta see her up the chapel when she went to Sunday mass
And when she'd go to receive, I'd kneel down there
And watch her pass
The glory of her ass

Maybe Pope Ben will make gaius happy and excommunicate Ray Repp. 🙂

Kevin
(apostate ex-choirboy and ex-altar boy)

[bobderfisch]

and its telling, i think, that half the country can't abide by even easy, false community like that -- regardless of whether its clinton or bush in office.

oh, and what's it tell? I'd say it's that they disagree with or even dislike the guy or those solutions, but that'd just be facile.

And I always kinda liked King's X. Do they count as christian rock?

[Douglas Fletcher]

Not to worry, by the time this new Pope got to worrying about rock, it was already long since dead.

[Jon]

joe writes: "Of course, Pope Rat thinks Vatican II was a big mistake."

Hell, Pope Rat probably thinks VE Day was a big mistake.

[Jon]

"A (very) small amount of it already is"

The best comes from the bands that aren't trying to be "Christian bands" but just "bands who happen to be Christians" like Over The Rhine.

They still work in a fair amount of Christian content, but they don't beat you over the head with it, and they don't just write songs that kiss God's ass and tell him how great he is. They aren't preachy.

Christian content as literary reference goes over best, as in Dylan's Highway 61:

Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"
God say, "No." Abe say, "What?"
God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"
Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?"
God says, "Out on Highway 61."

It lets the listener read as much into it as they wish.

[ed]

I have it on very high authority that the Pope and some of the Cards just love my song "What Would Jesus Do?". They listen during mass on their J-Pods.

[Native NYer]

Having been in catholic grammer school in the 70s, I find folk music to be the worst form of torture ever devised, an update of the hairshirts of the last century.

That said, Vat 2 and introducing "popular" music into the church really energised people into the faith who are about 20 years older then me. In chats I've had with friend's parents, they say how cool they thought it was that they were part of the church and the mass, not just an audience.

Of course, Pope Rat doesn't give a rat's ass about how these clean hippies feel about the church!

[smacky]

And the guys (who are probably uncool geeks) take the opportunity to hug as many of the girls (who tend to be pretty cute) as possible.

That's one thing that always skeeved me out about religious guys. I always got this creepy, lecherous vibe coming from them.

I think SPD is right: Rat is clearly a frustrated, untalented musical hack who is grieving his personal failures publicly.

[dhex]

smackster: well, sublimation ain't easy, especially when you're 15.

"i saw the outline of her bra strap! thank you o lord!"

[Seamus]

"Of course, Pope Rat thinks Vatican II was a big mistake."

So that explains why he (a peritus at Vatican II) cites the documents of Vatican II more often than any source other than John Paul II. (See http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/word/)

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Okay, so the kids did folk music in the 60s, and the church took it on in the 70s.

I think it's time for today's church to do raves. Y'know.. to be "down with it".

[Happy Clappy Sappy Brother]

The Folk Mass is still going strong in Brooklyn New York. While my parish has a choir that provides one Latin piece each Sunday, the Folk Mass is the best attended. When people die they are not requesting traditional hymns but the contemporary music sung at our Folk Mass. The group is a tool for evangelization and it obviosuly meets the need for a more lively worship experience. Regardless of Pope B's wishes, the Folk Mass is here and the music has consistently changed people's lives. This is the experience of all the parishes in my part of Brooklyn so don't put away your tambourines yet!