What About Frogs and Other Rodents?

An A.P. story on the front page of today's Washington Times begins: "Wisconsin residents ignored passionate opposition from cat lovers and supported a plan that would allow hunters to take out wild felines that kill birds and other small mammals."

Comments

[sage]

That's it, I'm going. I wonder how many I can get with my MAK-90? Although I'm thinking the 12 gauge would work better if they're bunched.

[smacky]

Italicized to death!

[Jacob Sullum]

Smacky, I just fixed the italcs. Man, you're fast.

[smacky]

What can I say? If I weren't correcting people on insignificant posting or grammatical errors, I'd have to be doing other work.

[Henry]

The Wisc. guv says this isn't going anywhere. No story here, aside from desperate hunters making asses of themselves.

[Phil]

It may be poorly worded, but the sentence actually makes perfect sense if you rearrange it thus: " . . . and supported a plan that would allow hunters to take out wild felines that kill other small mammals, as well as birds." "Other small mammals" is being compared to "wild felines," not to "birds."

[ralphus]

I worked in a laundry mat/beer bar in college. One of my regulars was a homeless guy that trapped feral cats and sold them to medial research labs.

Another one of my regulars claimed he was an ex-marine sniper that assassinated drug lords on orders from "That cocksucker Ollie North."

Another guy was one-legged Cajun that liked to be called Stumpy and gave me knife-fighting tips.

Man that was a cool job.

What were we discussing again? Oh yeah. Cat hunting.

Sounds like fun.

[Larry A]

[Amy Kocha said she feared a hunt could harm innocent cats.]

Not to worry, Amy. Any feral cat "innocent" of killing small animals will starve to death long before a hunter finds it.

[The state says studies show feral cats kill 47 million to 139 million songbirds a year.]

c. 2010: "Well, we got rid of the damn cats. Now what are we going to do about the extra 465,000,000 songbirds?

[smacky]

I worked in a laundry mat/beer bar in college. One of my regulars was a homeless guy that trapped feral cats and sold them to medial research labs.

Another one of my regulars claimed he was an ex-marine sniper that assassinated drug lords on orders from "That cocksucker Ollie North."

Another guy was one-legged Cajun that liked to be called Stumpy and gave me knife-fighting tips.

Wow. They must've had some really dirty laundry.

[smacky]

Speaking of other work, there is a strong possibility that I will no longer have the time to post regularly on H&R. My real job will shortly be smothering me with a heavy workload. I'm sure you will all miss my sophmoric, pointless comments. I know it will be hard, but try to manage without me.

[Aaron]

Oh Sid, where are you now that we need you?

[bigbigslacker]

"Katy Francis of Madison was one of about 1,200 people who attended the Monday evening meeting at Exhibition Hall at the Alliant Energy Center in Madison. She wore cat ears, whiskers and a cat nose and held a sign that read, "Too Cute to Kill." "

I don't think its the hunters making asses of themselves, and I doubt this woman was too cute to shoot. But I don't doubt this isn't going anywhere. The gov of wisconsin is not a 2nd amendment sort of guy. For those that missed it, he vetoed concealed carry legislation in the recent past. Why not, nobody ever tried to rape HIM.

[NoStar]

Smacky, where are your priorities? Posting snarky comments on Hit&Run is more important than any job (except for actually writing or editing for Reason magazine.)

NoStar

[Don]

Another one of my regulars claimed he was an ex-marine sniper that assassinated drug lords . . .

He probably also watched Sniper . . . a (very, very bad) movie about a USMC sniper after a drug lord.

There is a web page devoted to outing fake Navy SEALs. I think USMC snipers need something similar.

[Mo]

Too Cute to Kill
I always hated that line of reasoning. One of my friends was horrified when I said that I liked the taste of venison on the grounds that deer were adorable. I don?t make gastronomical decisions on how cute an animal is. I can be swayed by arguments of cruelty (I?d pay the difference for free-range beef and poultry if I could afford it) and I can be swayed by arguments of endangered species status (no whale for me). I?ll be damned if I stop eating an animal because someone, somewhere has it as a pet or they made a sappy Disney movie out of it. Same goes for my sympathy regarding thinning of animals.

[The Lonewacko Blog]

Some backstory here. The anti's even have their own website about this.

[JBOLD1]

Killing cats is illegal???

[Brian]

Good eatin'.

[mike2039]

I?m a gun owner and a hunter and I have no problem shooting feral cats, however cats are not marked feral or a 7-year-old's pet. If someone can please tell me how to determine if a cat is feral when looking down the barrel of my twelve gauge, please enlighten me.

[Terry]

Mike2039 wrote, "If someone can please tell me how to determine if a cat is feral when looking down the barrel of my twelve gauge, please enlighten me."
If your see a cat looking down the barrel of your twelve guage, don't take chances, SHOOT.
Don't worry, the 7 year old won't be able to recognize anyway if it isn't.

[kevrob]

A feral cat is one that is

1.) Not yours

2.) On your property

3.) Not wearing a collar

Simple, no? If you don't want Tabby to get plinked, put a bell around his neck and/or keep him indoors. You might want to think about fixing your kitties, too.

Kevin

[The Real Bill]

I've no problem with hunting, but if someone killed my cat, I'd kill them. I'm not kidding. I love my cat more than 6.3 billion people. Only my family and friends are more important to me. This is the big problem with this potential legislation. People like me will murder the hunters out of vengeance. If I had to wait 10 years so that I wouldn't be suspected, I'd do it.

[Sandy]

Real Bill:

I love my cockatiel. If you ever let your cat out and it gets to my cockatiel, I'll kill your cat. Possibly by beating you to death with it.

But then, that's why I keep my cockatiel indoors. Because I'm not the type of ass who lets his pet roam all over the planet eating other creatures and pissing on everything and then whine when it runs afoul of something bigger or more lead-containing and wonders why other people didn't look after the little beast while I was too busy bidding on that "Hang In There, Kitty" Hummel figurine to do so.

[The Real Bill]

Sandy,

You would be justified in killing my cat if it killed your cockatiel. But seriously, are you saying that cats shouldn't be allowed to roam around? (I do keep my cat indoors. I got him at the SPCA, and he's been nothing but an indoor cat. He's actually afraid of going outdoors.)

Your analogy is a bit faulty, though, since the cats naturally eat birds, but the hunters just want to kill for fun (because they're not going to eat the cats). Now, if you're saying that the hunters are so stupid as to be the moral equals of cats, well then, why don't we have hunting season for stupid hunters?

[UncleJimbo]

They're Coming Right At Us!!!

[kevrob]

Bill:

If you wanna let your kitty roam your property, that's fine. You could get a real good fence built to keep him in, or install one of those electro-shock thingees. I think one brand is called Invisible Fencing. But when Boots starts eating the eggs in Farmer Brown's henhouse, or worse, starts chowing down on wild grouse or pheasant eggs, or making lunch out of songbirds, he's just volunteered for varmint status.

BTW, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, the delisting of feral cats has at least two steps to go before it becomes law.

Now it's up to the Conservation Congress, a five-person advisory group to the Department of Natural Resources, to vote and possibly pass along to the DNR its recommendation on what to do with feral cats.

Any changes in animal-cruelty laws, however, would require action by the Legislature. That means it won't be open season on kitties, at least not yet.

Gov. Doyle, who was only elected by a plurality back in `02, thanks to the LP's Ed Thompson, has to face the voters in `06. He'll veto any changes that would alleviate the stray cat scourge, lest the cat loving hordes in Milwaukee and Madison turn on him.

Kevin

[bob]

Not sure if any of you have encountered feral cats but in my experience, they are pretty easy to tell apart from domestic pets. The feral cats populations I have encountered have had the same general charactaristics: thin, unhealthy, sometimes mangy and always wary of humans. You can easily tell the difference between the abandoned pet types and their wild raised young. (Not saying I would really care which one I was shooting at as I hate cats.)

Also, (not sure if hunting area was addressed in the article) most incorporated cities have pretty strict laws against the discharge of firearms within town limits or within say X yards of a residence. So unless you live in a somewhat rural area, the odds of your cat being taken out in your neighborhood by a bullet is remotely less than by a passing car.

[The Real Bill]

kevrob,

I understand if my cat was eating the private property of someone, but wild grouse, pheasant eggs, and songbirds? Sorry, but these don't belong to you or anyone in particular. So, in my book, you don't have the moral (fuck the legal) right to shoot my cat for doing what comes naturally. (When I say moral right, I mean the moral right I give to you, not God. Meaning the moral right to avoid my killing you in retribution.)

My problem is not with hunting of the feral cats. They definitely can be a menace. My concern is with the "accidental" shooting of a cat that legally belongs to a person. The law seems too loose.

As an aside, why do so many second amendment supporters (and I'm one) also have a lust for killing things? I really don't see why anyone should have any respect for people who kill for the sake of killing. IMO, people like that are just primitive. The world would be a better place without them. Although, I can see why some people might enjoy killing wanton killers. Hell, I'd pay good money to be allowed to execute anyone that rapes and/or murders a child. Really, I can't imagine a more uplifting experience than ridding the world of such monsterous trash.

[The Real Bill]

bob,

I admit you make good points (even if you're a cat-hating piece o' shit).

[kevrob]

Actually, RB, the wildlife in Wisconsin are technically the common property of The People of Wisconsin, so yes, I am part-owner of the grouse and ducks.

My dislike of feral cats dates to when I lived in the lower of a duplex with a rather large yard that the owner didn't have properly fenced. The lawn outside my bedroom window became Nookie Central for every stray cat in the county. The screams of felines in heat are not conducive to a good night's rest.

BTW, I don't plan to do any cat-hunting. First, I live in the city, and no matter what the state eventually decides, it isn't going to allow plinking at Felix in my neighborhood anymore than it authorizes a much-needed deer hunt. Second, I support hunting philosophically, but am too damn lazy to get out in the woods myself.

Kevin

[The Real Bill]

Okay, nuff said kevrob.

(Except for those sex-crazed kitties. I prefer cats to be neutered or spayed.)

[OPUS]

Wow, PETA is against cat killing but for bird killing by cats. I wonder what their position is on dogs killing cats?

[Eryk Boston]

Hunting season for stupid hunters (better yet, stupid people)? Where do I sign up?

...for the record, I'm not advocating eugenics. The stupid people would, of course, be given a fair chance to shoot back. I always get a good laugh from reading stories of hunters who are attacked by their game.

[Evan Williams]

Wow, PETA is against cat killing but for bird killing by cats. I wonder what their position is on dogs killing cats?

Looking for principled consistency from PETA is like trying to find a peacenik at a PNAC conference. They base their position primarily on how much they like the animal in question---granted, I'd venture that they have little problem killing a spider, but what about that poor, helpless spider!?

[Evan Williams]

The stupid people would, of course, be given a fair chance to shoot back. I always get a good laugh from reading stories of hunters who are attacked by their game.

Deer were given grace and speed and a keen sense of smell and sight. Bears were given strong muscles and sharp claws. Black Mambos were given poisonous fangs. Humans were given...a highly developed brain. With that brain, they devised tools with which to trap and/or kill their prey. I have no problem with animals fighting back against their would-be predators (man), but it's not like it's some sort of "grand justice", and I don't find it any more humorous than when a man shoots an elk in the neck (except for that one time, that guy was dumb enough to douse himself in deer musk, and the deer mauled his ass---that was funny, but only because the guy was so fucking stupid).

[db]

I, too, question the thrill-kill paradigm of some hunters. I'm a big supporter of the right to own weapons (and I have a rather comprehensive collection), but I'm never entirely comfortable around people who like to shoot living things just for fun. Steel targets at 200 yd are plenty for me. "Varmint hunters" kind of creep me out.

[Solitudinarian]

db,

What you said. I love guns and I love hunting, but snuffing animals because you've got nothing better to do (that's what TV is for, fer cryin' out loud!) is the mark of a disturbed and disturbing person.

[mark]

To make it easy to rid yourself of feral cats, feed them in in a small pan for a few days. Then you can get several with one shot from a shotgun.

[ralphus]

"Wow. They must've had some really dirty laundry."

smacky,

You have no idea.

[Mike H.]

I've found that feral kittens are much easier to kill than feral adult cats.

Kittens are very trusting before their eyes have opened, don't ya know.

[brian]

This controversy is easily resolved. Instead of alowing hunters to shoot the cats, the state should breed coyotes and released them all over. That would also take care of the cats in suburban and urban areas where hunting is forbidden.

I love cats. I just don't love the idiots who allow them to roam freely and then complain when something happens to them. Want to be sure your cat isn't killed by a car/hunter/dog/coyote? Keep it inside or outside in an enclosure. Take responsibility for your animal.

[swami]

To allow people to murder cats is disgusting. Don't these cat killers grow up to be serial killers. Why somw people think they have the right to murder a defenseless living creature to satisfy their blood lust is beyond me. Same pathology that afflicts nazis.

[Number 6]

I'm with Bill in that I'd be more than willing to eliminate anyone who killed either of my (indoor) cats.

A woman I work with raised a good point: she lives on a farm, and the feral cats there serve a purpose-killing mice. I doubt its possible for her to keep those cats exclusively on her property.

Another issue-I'm a cyclist, and and sick and fucking tired of being chased by dogs that people can't be bothered to put on a leash or behind a fence. I think fairness dictates that I be allowed to shoot them.

[bill b]

As a motorist I think I should be able to run annoying,elitist cyclists off the road.

[joe]

C'mon, bill b, with a little more practice, I'm sure you'll be able to take the training wheels off.

[Lowdog]

When I was a young lad in New Mexico, there was a feral cat that ran rough-shod over our little neighbourhood. My dad took that fucker out with a .22 - sweet. But oh yeah, you knew that cat was feral.

I love animals, am not a hunter (if I were to ever hunt it would be with a bow), and am in favour of gun rights (owning them myself). But I think I'm forced to suppress a yawn on this issue...

[Ken]

They were pretty sucessful in eliminating cats in Europe once. The rat population exploded and then came a little nastiness now known as the BLACK DEATH. Coincy-dinck, maybe so - maybe not.

[Ken]

But Officer, I didn't see any collar, honest I didn't.

http://www.felineresistance.org/indoors.htm

[Max]

Ralphus, was that in NOLA? I met some wierd "I am a snipper and I guard the President when he is in town/I spent alot of time in Central Amercia" guys down there.

[Great White Hunter]

I was nearly gored to death by a particularly irritated African bull elephant. I barely stopped a monstrous black rhino that charged within 10 feet of me. I've hunted lions. I've hunted tigers. I've hunted bears. All of these creatures had the taste for human flesh, or were very eager to take their first bite.

But nothing comes close to the American House Cat. They may be small, but pound for pound, they are more vicious then Alaskan wolverines. One second, they are in your scope a hundred yards away.. the next, they are on you like stink on a wildebeast.

You can never have enough fire power. Your defensive perimeter is never wide enough. You never have enough men. I've seen grizzled veterans cry out to God as they blindly fired into shadows. When you go on a cat hunt, be prepared to feel that icy hand of death on your shoulder the minute you step into the woods.. and even when you survive another day, and are safe in your bed, the nightmares will come in whispered breaths..

Meeeeow...meeeeooowww...

[bill b]

Thank you Great White Hunter.As I watch the Stock Market vaporize you have made my day.

[Stevo Darkly]

smacky: Speaking of other work, there is a strong possibility that I will no longer have the time to post regularly on H&R. My real job will shortly be smothering me with a heavy workload. I'm sure you will all miss my sophmoric, pointless comments. I know it will be hard, but try to manage without me.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

As one of the very few regular female posters at H&R, don't you realize that you have responsibilities -- to whit, to be the focus of the male posters' horndog fantasies? I don't think Jennifer can handle it all alone. What about her workload, hah? It will double. You can't just shrug off your share so lightly.

Although your days ahead will be filled with countless time-consuming tasks -- bathing, dressing, undressing, making exciting underwear -- surely at some point the load will slow down again and you'll come back to us? We'll wait for you.

PS: On the other hand, if by "other work" you actually mean your participation in the new role-playing chat site that will soon be advertised where Ultimate Fitness Program currently is, that would be OK then.

[Stevo Darkly]

Great White Hunter: I also thank you for helping me take my mind off my pain, however briefly.