Stupid High School Kids (Well, One in Three)

One in three U.S. high school students say the press ought to be more restricted, and even more say the government should approve newspaper stories before readers see them, according to a survey being released today.

The survey of 112,003 students finds that 36% believe newspapers should get "government approval" of stories before publishing…

The survey of First Amendment rights was commissioned by the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation and conducted last spring by the University of Connecticut.

Whole story here.

Comments

[Madog]

They shouldn't be allowed to print stories like this. Makes Americans look dumb.

[Jennifer]

No surprise. My old students agreed that it should be illegal to criticize the government during wartime, lest the criticism hurt morale.

[fyodor]

Good thing the founders slipped all that freedom shit in there before it could be subjected to subsequent majoritarian votes!

[Nick Weishampel]

What the fuck are we teaching our kids?

[Jennifer]

Nick-
To Feel Good about themselves.

[chthus]

This matches my experience pretty closely. Though the sample is small, I've got three cousins in HS with whom I've discussed politics. One dislikes the govt and thinks we should have more freedom, one doesn't give a shit, and the last is enamored with Communism and thinks that's the way we should go. The last, I assume, would agree with more govt control.

Interestingly, the first and last above both end up going to a lot of the same protests. The other just likes pot.

[fyodor]

Luckily, there's a cure for youth.

[Matt]

The sad thing is, one out of the two who disagreed probably thinks that the NFL shouldn't be able to fine coaches who criticize referees because it violates the First Amendment.

But the good news is, each and every one of them has learned how important it is to recycle!

[Ball of Confusion]

I'm surprised it's that low. I assume the numbers are dramatically higher in the adult population. If 2/3 of the country had generally libertarian views on what powers government should have I'd be ecstatic.

[The Lonewacko Blog]

Don't you just love these wacky studies? Like other studies, what's reported is different from what's actually in the study.

Contrast "even more say the government should approve newspaper stories before readers see them" with the actual (if their site is to be believed) question: "Newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories"

A more intelligent survey would have split that into parts:

"Newspapers should be allowed to freely publish any story whatsoever without government approval"

and

"Newspapers should be request government approval before printing stories that might endanger national security"

What a dumb survey.

[Xavier]

"Kids aren't learning enough about the First Amendment in history, civics or English classes."

I don't agree with this conclusion at all. I may think it's obvious that the students calling for more censorship are wrong, but they're not wrong on any factual issue. I don't like the idea of judging the success of education by the opinions that students hold. The only factual survery question mentioned in the article is that 75% of students believe that flag burining is illegal. That's a failure of education. The rest is simply unfortunate.

[andy]

Xavier,

But wouldn't you agree that a person educated in that which most would agree is good (i.e. Our rights and freedoms and the consequences of those freedoms and the loss thereof) would come to the conclusion that the Bill of Rights is indeed a good thing?

It seems these kids don't realize the horrors of fascism, which is exactly why they would agree to the question.

[dhex]

i dunno. you rarely find people who are actually into the first amendment as a principle rather than a rhetorical whacking stick.

[Juanita]

We need an ammendment guaranteing us all the right to live in a drug free society.

[Jennifer]

Juanita-
I'd sooner have an amendment granting us freedom from trolls.

[R C Dean]

A drug-free society, eh? That's gonna be tough on sick people, Juanita.

[chthus]

Juanita,

All drugs? Or just the psychoactive ones?

[Eric the .5b]

Perhaps the preface of the amendment can define "drugs" as "weird control freaks like Jaunita"? 😉

[Eric the .5b]

"Juanita", even...

[dhex]

dearest juanita;

each day my rapture increases
like the fine grains of kif
on the hallucinogenic sands
of the beach of our love

amor.

[SPD]

Two out of three kids probably could not locate Canada on a map, either.

But, like Homer Simpson said, anybody could miss Canada, all tucked away down there like that.

[thoreau]

There are days when I think we could get one out of three H&R posters to support repealing the Bill of Rights, if we just pitched it as taking a tool away from activist judges. 66% support among high school kids ain't so bad.

[trainwreck]

is it "kif" or "keef"?

While the first amendment allows me to use words that describe illegal substances, I want to spell those words correctly.

[dhex]

kif, near as i can tell.

[smacky]

The game is up; I've figured you out, Juanita. And now I'm going to expose you to everyone on H&R:

You are my junior high D.A.R.E. officer. And, incidentally, one of the main people I credit for turning me on to drugs as a youngster. You truly are an inspiration. Thank you.

[Juanita]

And, incidentally, one of the main people I credit for turning me on to drugs as a youngster.

Too bad, you are not free if you are enslaved by drugs.

Freedom is drug free.

[Lord Duppy]

You should see it at U of M.

The trouble is, a lot of kids (I'm using "kids" broadly here) think that being "anti-establishment," i.e., against the current exploitative capitalist system, is the same thing as being pro-freedom. I saw a yugo the other day with two bumper-stickers: one said, "There's no government like no government," the other had the AFL-CIO seal on it. To me, that seems a bit contradictory.

Nobody actually takes the time to think through their opinions, even professors. I had an engineering professor demonize the auto industry the other day because "they could make safer cars, but they would cost too much. So they accept X number of deaths per year so they can make a profit." I don't think it ever occurred to him that if they didnt make a profit, they wouldnt be able to make cars.

The textbook for that class has two chapters on diversity and four on the environment. Together, they make up more than half the book. I'm not against promoting some awareness, but this material is far beyond the point of becoming dogmatic.

Three more years...

[smacky]

Lord Duppy,

Sounds like your engineering professor (and a lot of other people at your school) probably watched one too many screenings of "Fight Club".

[Russ D]

If the results of the poll in the linked article are any indication, the high school kids are more cognizant of the 1st amendment than the general population.

I like Jennifer's answer: To Feel Good about themselves.

Too bad a third of them don't also feel good about others.

[Phong Phuhn]

It isn't suprising that 1/3 of most children under 21 think this way. From day one in school they are searched, sniffed by dogs, told to pee in a cup, etc, etc.

[SR]

I don't think the survey figures for students are that different from the general population. Based on the daily surveys at Iwon.com (yes, I know, they're self-selecting rather than random), it appears that roughly 30-35% of the population will support *any* anti-freedom measure (e.g., random warrantless searches, total firearms prohibition, speech restrictions, etc.) so long as it is prefaced by, "To improve security...", "To prevent terrorism...", etc.

[Jennifer]

Russ D-
The sad thing is, I wasn't kidding. I wasn't even exaggerating.

[atomicsoda]

"I saw a yugo the other day with two bumper-stickers: one said, "There's no government like no government," the other had the AFL-CIO seal on it. To me, that seems a bit contradictory."

I don't see this as contradicatory. Workers banding together to collectively negotiate their wages, benefits and working conditions with there employer is a way to equalize the barganing power of the two sides. Each worker is insignificant if they had to negotiate with the large and powerful mutinational corporation. By banding together voluntarily they increase there barganing power and freely negotiate the terms of there agreement. This is very consistent with limited government. In fact if workers in the US were more unionized and powerful there would be less need for government social programs as health, unemployment, retraining, disability, retirement and other benefits would be negotiated by workers and employers and provided for adequatly by the private sector.

[Skeptikos]

Juanita...does that include only the drugs that you, personaly find offensive. Me, I find insulin offensive, and really the research shows it is quite bad for you if abused (I had a roommate who had a very strange habit of "over" doing it to get high, if only the FDA had restricted his bad use, he and countless others would be dead, of course you woun't find this problem written up much, but it is real.)

About the real post...I have 2 friends teaching on the high school level here in Chi (one suburb, one city). They tell me that one of the things taught, with full blessing of both local demos and repubs is that the ultimate good, is authority, and authority automatically justifies authority. From what they tell me, in one way or another (from how they teach history-or fail to teach it) to how teachers justify thier actions, there is only one question, not: Are they right, but do they have the authority to act.

[Juanita]

Juanita...does that include only the drugs that you, personaly find offensive

Just psychoactive, illegal, drugs.

I had a roommate who had a very strange habit of "over" doing it to get high

Perhaps it should not be to self inject, but those who need it and have a prescription should go to a clinic once or twice a day for injections.

[Pavel]

People who do things like question authority or the idea that we were made of clay by a man in the sky 10,000 years ago...well, they tend to hang around others who do the same.

Sometimes it's good to remember where on the spectrum you are.

[Ball of Confusion]

Juanita's posts aren't meant to be taken seriously. They're target dummies designed to provoke response.

My personal theory is that one of the Reason editors launches those 'Juanita' posts just to check that all the new inductees are learning the appropriate conditioned responses, but I can't prove that - yet.

[smacky]

Can somebody here tell me what a troll is?

"Perhaps it should not be to self inject, but those who need it and have a prescription should go to a clinic once or twice a day for injections." -- Juanita

Yeah, good idea. Make all diabetics virtually unemployable because they'll need to make regular clinic visits. That would help the economy, the national healthcare insurance debacle, and the arguement for self-sufficiency in general.

[thoreau]

Maybe Juanita can provide us with another identity mystery. First she'll be Juanita. Then later on there will be a French Marine posting remarkably similar comments....

😉

[mtc]

Ball of Confusion-
I've been trying to prove the same thing about joe.

[thoreau]

This is admittedly off-topic, but this seems to be the most fun of all the threads. From the latest Onion:

Immigrant Laborers Hired To Delete Spam

SAN DIEGO--Executives at Gortman Consulting are hiring immigrant day laborers to delete their junk e-mail. "Our employees were wasting hours of valuable time sifting through spam," Gortman CEO Donald Barris said Monday. "Finally, I was like, 'Eureka! Hire some low-cost Hispanic laborers to empty our Outlook Express trashcans.' Our IT van just swings by the docks in the morning and picks up a dozen or so guys." While Barris said the laborers are "happy for the work," labor-rights groups have complained that repeatedly pressing the delete key has caused numerous cases of carpal-tunnel syndrome among migrant spam removers.

[Ball of Confusion]

troll:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

An internet troll is a person who sends duplicitous messages hoping to get angry responses, or a message sent by such a person. The term derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" and ultimately from trolling for fish. It's used to refer to unwanted internet posts originates on usenet. The term is frequently abused to slander opponents in heated debates and is frequently misapplied to those who are ignorant of etiquette.

Trolling is often described as an online version of the breaching experiment, where social boundaries and rules of etiquette are broken. Self-proclaimed trolls often style themselves as Devil's Advocates or gadflies or culture jammers, challenging the dominant discourse and assumptions of the forum they are trolling in an attempt to subvert and introduce different ways of thinking. Detractors who value etiquette claim that true Devil's Advocates generally identify themselves as such for the sake of etiquette, whereas trolls often consider etiquette to be something worth trolling in order to fight groupthink.

Trolls are sometimes caricatured as socially inept. This is often due to the fundamental attribution error, as it is impossible to know the real traits of an individual solely from their online discourse. Indeed, since intentional trolls are alleged to knowingly flout social boundaries, it is difficult to typecast them as socially inept since they have arguably proven adept at their goal.

[Ball of Confusion]

mtc - if so, the "joe" persona seems to be designed to test a more advanced recruit than the "Juanita" persona.

[smacky]

Thanks, BOC. What a pleasantly full and concise definition. You're a regular encyclopedia. At least in regards to internet trolls.
BTW, does Russ(TM) approve of the resultant connotations of this usage? I can't help but think about the dolls with tall, fuzzy hairdos, little bellybuttons and gleaming plastic eyeballs... and the Olsen twins.

[dead_elvis]

Don't Feed The Trolls.

If you don't feed them, they go away.

[Lord Duppy]

Juanita, I think your posts have transcended satire and become strawmen. While it would be fun to beat them up if someone advanced them seriously, we're losers if we have to argue with an imaginary opponent.

[Juanita]

Juanita, I think your posts have transcended satire and become strawmen.

What does a strawman mean? A scarecrow?

[smacky]

Don't Feed The Trolls.

If you don't feed them, they go away.

Not always true. If you don't feed Ashley Olsen, she goes to an anorexia clinic and comes back twice as strong as before she was admitted.

[dhex]

if you're going to pay attention to juanita, do it creatively.

she takes my breath away, she does, troll or no.

[saw-whet]

Trainwreck and dhex,

Kef = keef = kif = kief

1. A dreamy condition 2. a substance, as Indian hemp, smoked to produce this condition.

From the 1988 Webster's New World dictionary.

[Akira MacKenzie]

"Kef = keef = kif = kief"

Are we talking abou the green alien on Futurama who Amy is in love with?

[trainwreck]

Thanks saw-whet. I didn't know the term keef had another origin.

In contemporary American drug culture keef usally refers to the resin crystals that are shaken from a bud of marijuana. Sometimes buds are placed over a screen and shaken until the outer resin crystals fall off. These are then collected and smoked, inducing the keef feeling Webster described.

[Bill Clinton]

Not to be confused with queef, a vaginal fart.

[The rule of law is my anti-dru]

"Just psychoactive, illegal, drugs."

Ah, it's a semantics hang-up.

I'm glad you express your support for the rule of law. And I hereforth presume your support for duly passed medical marijuana propositions in the several states as truly reflecting the will of the people and the rule of law working hand in hand.

[dagny]

I'd like to see how the results of any survey or test of high school students match up with answering "C" to every question.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

WTF didya expect? They all went to government controlled public schools.

[raymond]

Is the following legend, or history?

In the '70s ('80s?) a poll was (allegedly) taken presenting excerpts from the Declaration of Independence to Americans. Those polled were asked to determine where the quotes came from. The majority said they were from a Communist document.

I've never been able to find a source for that story. However. When I read here that "inalienable = alienable", that fundamental individual rights may be violated in a "good cause"... the story seems to reflect the modern American zeitgeist.

[Swamp Justice]

raymond:

The story I heard was just the opposite. Given the phrase "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need", most people polled believed it was from the Declaration of Indepence or US Constitution, not the Communist Manifesto.

Yesterday, I saw a car (here in communist Berkeley) with both "NATIONAL HEALTH CARE NOW!" and "ANARCHY!" bumper stickers?! My interpretation is that the driver is one of those lefties who want to do whatever they feel like ("ANARCHY!") but also want other people to pay for all the cool free stuff they want ("NATIONAL HEALTH CARE NOW"!). It seemed funny at the time, but that sounds all to familiar from the Berkeley leftists around here.. <:(

[Douglas Fletcher]

I remember hearing polls like this when I was in school, back in the pleistocene. I think it might be the same dumbass 1 out of 3 kids answering this poll, the idiots still haven't graduated.

[tugboat]

Readers of the work of William Strauss and Neil Howe (Generations, The Fourth Turning) will not be surprised that today's high school kids are a bunch of budding totalitarians.

[andy]

"Yesterday, I saw a car (here in communist Berkeley) with both "NATIONAL HEALTH CARE NOW!" and "ANARCHY!" bumper stickers?! My interpretation is that the driver is one of those lefties who want to do whatever they feel like ("ANARCHY!") but also want other people to pay for all the cool free stuff they want ("NATIONAL HEALTH CARE NOW"!). It seemed funny at the time, but that sounds all to familiar from the Berkeley leftists around here..

[SteveInClearwater]

Little Johnny posted: You cannot be free if you are enslaved by drugs.

To which we Reply, That's why we make the drugs OUR slaves.

[kevrob]

Whenever I propose privatizing the government's schools, the status quo's proponents shriek that "the common school is necessary for citizenship education!" Seems to me that many of those operations have failed utterly at that task. Indeed, given the Blob's tendency to adopt fads such as the Multicult to excess, along with the "safe school" fetish that has turned many a high school into an echo of the Panopticon, I'd say that the case for government schooling being detrimental to the raising of children into free citizens is pretty strong.

Kevin