Blast from the past: OxyContin and Color Commentary Don't Mix
Well, some may still say Rush Limbaugh was right in his infamous closing argument at ESPN, while others aver that he was a victim of political correctness gone mad, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say Donovan McNabb is not just an overhyped black quarterback.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Black or not, I would argue that the position of QB is overhyped--it's still about defense and the running game.
...Just ask Payton Manning.
Way to take a strong stance on this a year and half later, Tim. Shows some real bacbone. Let's remember the context, instead of posting on it after they beat the very lucky Atlanta Falcons.
*backbone
Considering that McNabb just advanced to the Superbowl, I think Cavanugh's post is downright timely.
...And as far as the Falcons being lucky--there's nothing lucky about having a formidable run defense, the league's best special teams and averaging around a hundred and eighty yards on the ground over sixteen games.
fussball
Let's remember the context
Yes, it's not fair to judge historical figures from the year 2003 by the standards of our own time.
Now we must all root for the Steelers, to ensure plenty of cheesy pun headlines over the next two weeks involving the Pennsylvania showdown. Yeah, it's not looking good -- Pittsburgh down 13 at the moment -- but surely somebody would coin the name that sticks.
For the meta-media-minded among us, it would be fun to watch the whole process: which names get tossed out by whom, then which name takes over, how and why.
Er ... Now make that down 14 ...
I would argue that the position of QB is overhyped--it's still about defense and the running game.
Well, it's true that if the other team scores more points than you, you won't win; and the Eagles' inside-the-ten stop in Q1 was phenomenal. But McNabb threw a pretty great game today.
Semolina: The Keystone Bowl? The Susquehanna Sack Factory? The Schuylkill Scrimmage?
The way things are looking it's going to be the Super-I-95-Bowl anyway.
Yeah, but Rush is sure to have a good comeback:
"The only reason McNabb got his team through the NFC playoffs is because they faced two teams with even more inferior black quarterbacks! Wait until they face the Aryan (and Bush-loving)Tom Brady!
OxyContin uber alles!"
We have a winner: "Broad Street vs. Beacon Hill." It's short, it's on-point, and it riffs on two inflated, outdated self-images: that Broad Street is still a rough-and-tumble den of blue-collar toughs, and that the rest of the country is still in awe of Boston's upper class. Depending on the outcome (I'm rooting for Philly despite my South Jersey post-colonial bitterness, but the Pats looked pretty impressive out there), this may leave John Kerry as Boston's only loser of the season.
Black or not, I would argue that the position of QB is overhyped.
Let's remember the context, instead of posting on it after they beat the very lucky Atlanta Falcons.
Typical...McNabb plays his ass off all season and QB's a team that's now one of the 2 best team in the NFL.
But either his position is overrated or it was just luck.
Somehow, I don't think Tim is the one lacking backbone.
As for context, since it's pretty obvious (to me anyway) that since he's slam-dunked el Rushbo's "analysis", I'd say the context is right on the money.
Good going, Tim
I would argue that the position of QB is overhyped--it's still about defense and the running game.
...Just ask Payton Manning.
Uh, if you ask Ben Roethlisberger, he probably wouldn't agree with you. The running game didn't get him to the SuperBowl. And it was Brady's passing game that demolished the Steeler defense, while they predictably contained Corey Dillon.
Last time I checked, Foxboro wasn't near Beacon Hill.
The worst thing about the Keystone State not closing out the Super Bowl is that then the Championship would have been between two National Football League teams, and the upstart AFL would have been locked out. This is supposed to help the economy in the upcoming year, in some arcane manner.
If Philly wins the SB, then all the other teams will pay insane amounts for their unrestricted free agents, drawing them back to the pack in the NFC East. As a Giants fan, I see this as a Good Thing. Should the Iggles lose, Reid & Co. will redouble their efforts to get better, insuring more whuppins for my lowly Jints.
Kevin
The funny thing is, Limbaugh didn't criticize McNabb.
He criticized the mainstream media for political correctness.
But now the story is that he said McNabb sucks because he's black. What he actually said was that McNabb got a free pass from the mainstream media because he's black.
But why let what he actually said get in the way of a good race-baiting?
Yes, it's not fair to judge historical figures from the year 2003 by the standards of our own time.
It is when you're talking about the development of a young football player. In 2003, when many considered him an elite QB, he threw 16 TDs, 11 INTS and had a QB rating of 79.6. In 2004, he threw 31 TDs, 8 INTs and had a QB rating of 104.7. I think it's fair to say that he is a better, more mature QB now than when Rush made those remarks.
In 2003, when many considered him an elite QB, he threw 16 TDs, 11 INTS and had a QB rating of 79.6. In 2004, he threw 31 TDs, 8 INTs and had a QB rating of 104.7. I think it's fair to say that he is a better, more mature QB now than when Rush made those remarks.
...and none of those pundits who considered him an "elite" qb had any foresight; they just wanted to see him succeed because he was black?
I should have mentioned I don't agree with the whole "black QB" angle - just that there was a time when McNabb was overrated, and now he is correctly rated.
"I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. . . . There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team." - What Rush said in 2003.
But then he later said this:
"the sports media, being liberals just like liberal media is elsewhere, have a desire that black quarterbacks excel and do very well so that their claims that blacks are being denied opportunity can be validated."
So the sports media didn't like what Rush said OR the way he said it. So they're all liberals. Mmm-hmmm. They disagree with his characterization of them so they MUST be liberals. Right.
Wake Up.
Maybe the criticisms of Rush insinuating that these remarks prove he's racist are unfair.
But he's made plenty of OTHER quotes over the past 15 years that suggest he IS racist.
"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."
Limbaugh to a black caller:
"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back."
When Spike Lee urged that black schoolchildren get off from school to see his film Malcolm X:
"Spike, if you're going to do that, let's complete the education experience. You should tell them that they should loot the theater, and then blow it up on their way out."
Limbaugh also still uses mock dialect -- substituting "ax" for "ask"-- when discussing black leaders.
Rush IS a bigot and at least some of his career is due to his remarkable ability to make bigotry seem entertaining and insightful. What a talent.
R C Dean,
Thank you for a reasoned and even-handed response to my post.
I looked up my quotes using a variety of Google searches and made sure that each of the quotes was from at least 3 different sources. Not the most error-proof, I'll admit. But would, IMHO, eliminate the wild loner wackos.
The "bone" bit came from a number of them but had the most detail on FAIR.com at http://www.fair.org/articles/limbaugh-color.html. I know some folks will react to anything from FAIR if they can sometimes be faulted for liberal interperatation, they DO usually get the actual facts right.
I have heard the "ax" bit myself many times.
To be specific, I listed the quotes in support of my statement "that suggest he IS racist."
Since I have no way of knowing if he is racist, I can only provide his quotes and my opinion of what they indicate.
However, I DID outrightly call him a bigot, which is often confused with being racist but actually means being intolerant...which he demonstrably is.
Back to whether ot not he's a racist...he might very well simply be a very astute marketer.
Rush makes his money bashing liberals. Rightly or wrongly, liberals co-opted civil rights as an issue in the 60's.
Many people (myself included) feel that civil rights as a movement has its failures largely because of the same liberal influence.
But remember, when liberal Democrats siezed civil rights, that left a lot of disenfranchised southern white racists who were promptly courted by Goldwater, Nixon and (most successfully) Reagan. (Southern strategy anyone?)
Many Republicans have idealogical problems with civil rights largely due to the liberal methods used to secure them. Those methods (often rightly) are considered ineffectual and fraught with high costs and long-term weaknesses.
But there are still a number of southern conservatives who have a problem with civil rights - not because of idealogical concerns - but because they are racists.
Rush's methods walk the fine line of resonating with both groups.
So is he a racist? I think it's safe to say there are a lot of racists out there who get a lot of satisfaction listening to him mock minorities and minority leaders. I think he's fully aware of the affect he has on them and he courts it.
I think it's probably naive to assume he's doing African-Americans any favors when he reinforces stereotypes.
TO Clarify, I wrote "civil rights" when I should have written "civil rights movement".
I believe wholeheartedly in the aims of the civil rights movement and I abhor racism in any form.
I believe many Republicans also believe in equality and civil rights regardless of race creed or color. After all, the party was founded largely to oppose slavery.
Just as The Beatles were likely the most important rock band in history and the most overreated one at the same, the quarterback position may be overhyped, but it is still the most important single position on the field. It's just the media's habit of taking the obvious and making it more obvious.
EAGLES!!! 🙂
R.C. Dean,
Limbaugh did criticize McNabb (that he also criticized the media at the same time doesn't disprove his criticism of McNabb). Now let's go to the actual transcript (as opposed to R.C. Dean's tortured interpretation of it) to see what he really said (as an attorney, R.C. Dean of all people should know to form opinions only after reading the transcript in full):
Rush Limbaugh: I?ve listened to all you guys, actually, and I think the sum total of what you?re all saying is, Donovan McNabb is regressing, he?s going backwards. And my, I?m sorry to say this, I don?t think he?s been that good from the get-go. I think what we?ve had here is a little social concern in the NFL. I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well ?
[McNabb is going to the Superbowl this year; yes, he surely is "regressing."]
Tom Jackson: Mm-hmm
Limbaugh: ? for instance, black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there is a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he really didn?t deserve ? [crosstalk] the defense carried this team, I think, and he got credit for it.
Jackson: But Rush, somebody went to those [NFC] championship games ?
Limbaugh: Oh, they went ?
Jackson: ? somebody went to those Pro Bowls, somebody made those plays that I saw, running down the field, doing it with his legs, doing it with his arm. He had been a very effective quarterback for this football team over the last two or three years [crosstalk], different than what we see right -- and they didn?t have any talent then than they have now.
Limbaugh: On defense, on defense they did. [crosstalk]
Jackson: Well, on defense they did, but I?m talking about the offensive side of the ball.
Limbaugh: But that?s what I?m saying: I think he got a lot of credit for the defensive side of the ball winning games for this team.
Steve Young: But I?ll tell you what, I?ll say it even more strongly, Tom: When they?re [the Philadelphia Eagles] winning, nobody makes more plays ?
Jackson: Than Donovan McNabb.
Young: ? with his feet and with his arm than Donovan McNabb. That guy is really one of the best in the league at making plays. But making plays does not win championships. Running the offense does, so at some point I think that if Coy Detmer looks like a better option [crosstalk] because he?ll go in there, drop back and throw the ball correctly.
[Note here the attempt - by Young - to draw a distinction (probably unwittingly) between Detmer and McNabb based on the typical notions of white & black QBs.]
Chris Berman: Isn?t it odd that last year, with the broken leg, I know it was Arizona, but that one game he was in the [pocket] he looked great. [crosstalk]
[And Koy Detmer sucked the two games he started this year in junk time.]
Young: He had to run that offense.
Jackson: So Rush, once you make that investment, though, once you make that investment in him, that?s a done deal.
Limbaugh: I?m saying it?s a good investment, don?t misunderstand, I just don?t think he?s as good as everyone said he has been ? [crosstalk]
[He's a "good investment," but he's also "regressing?" Grow a brain and make some consistent statements idiot.]
Michael Irvin: Rush has a point ? Rush has a point.
Needless to say, Rush's predictive abilities suck.
R.C. Dean,
And let me reiterate, Limbaugh did criticize him, and did so quite stupidly in an easily verifiable way.
What's interesting about McNabb has been his remarkable ability to change his entire playing style. At Syracuse he was the prototypical "running black QB" (in the style expected of black QBs - that is seen as their "natural role" as QBs). At Phildelphia - over his six year career - he has become largely a "passing QB" (consider the domain of white QBs) and has become very good at it (look at his statistics this year). Not very many QBs could make such radical shifts over such a short period and its a testament to his talent and work ethic IMHO.
[Note here the attempt - by Young - to draw a distinction (probably unwittingly) between Detmer and McNabb based on the typical notions of white & black QBs.]
Somebody should do a collection of the kind of tortured faint praise commentators come up with when they're doing this unwitting-distinctificationizing of white players:
"He packs his lunch and really comes ready to play."
"He sees the whole field."
"Not a lot of speed, but he's one of the most serious players out there."
I should note that I think there's less of this stuff now than there was ten years ago. Then again, I'm more of an optimist on race matters than I used to be.
I've gotten more than tired of pro and anti Rush folks misstating what Rush said on that show (and avoiding what the other commentators said as well).
Rush may have been right about the media (how anyone could know if it were true or not I cannot say - which is why his comment is nearly meaningless), but he was clearly wrong in his criticism of McNabb (since McNabb has gone on to prove Rush wrong).
McNabb is a very good, but not great QB. Until this year, his numbers were very pedestrian and his statistics in the three lost NFC championship games were abysmal. The Eagles are the best team in the much weaker NFC. The Patriots will demonstrate this in convincing fashion. Regardless of race, Tom Brady is the better QB and the Patriots are the better team.
Whether Limbaugh was right or not is sidelight to the larger issue. It is impossible to have a reasonable discussion regarding race in America, not in a society scared to death of offending a person of color but who will pay $8.50 to see a movie entitled, "White Men Can't Jump."
Gary Gunnels,
FWIW, Rush did not say McNabb was regressing. He said that everyone else was saying that but that they were wrong because, in his opinion, McNabb was never very good "from the get-go." In other words, the other commentators thought McNabb was in a slump, but Rush apparently thought his poor play was what should be expected from him once pro-black-QB bias is set aside.
These are McNabb's numbers:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/McNaDo00.htm
Compare them to Joe Montana's:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/MontJo01.htm
Compare them to John Elway's:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/ElwaJo00.htm
The basic difference between these guys is that McNabb has yet to win a Superbowl. When and if McNabb wins a one or two of them, people will continue to snipe.
fyodor,
I took him to be in agreement with the "regressing" comment, while at the same time saying that he wasn't very good to begin with. Of course this season has shown either sentiment to be wrong (then again, McNabb was on fire soon after the commentary above - so he he disproved it then too).
Until McNabb wins a one or two of them, people will continue to snipe.
Jose,
I don't claim to be an expert in how good McNabb was or is. But I should point out that while the vaunted QB rating is one reasonable measure of a QB's performance, it is hardly exhaustive, for what should be obvious reasons.
As for double standards, on one hand, you are correct to a degree, but on the other, that's life. There will always be so-called double standards and it's hardly news or shocking or necessarily even bad if people are more sensitive about what is said about groups that have suffered more obvious persecution. (Maybe not ideal either, but then, what is?) And don't forget that Rush didn't lose his day job. What is seen as appropriate for policitical commentary may not be for sports talk. Plus, let's not forget that it was Rush who introduced the subject of race into the debate about McNabb in the first place. It's not like everyone was crying about poor oppressed Donovan until Rush said enough!
Gary, funny you bring up Elway. As a Denver resident, I can attest that Elway was consistently inconsistent throughout most of his career! But the bottom line is he got the W's. It's funny how sports heros are made. It's not always very logical, and maybe it shouldn't be!
fyodor,
Well, Elway was considered a "loser" by many football fans, commentators, etc., for the three superbowls he lost (the 59-10 drubbing in 1989 was especially bad). But once he got his rings no one cared about those past performances.
If McNabb ends up winning two weeks from yesterday then all criticism will be silenced forever I think (especially if they can defeat the Patriots). However, though I am a big Eagles fan (have been since Dick Vermeil coached there), I predict a Patriots victory. Anyone picking either the Colts or the Steelers over the Patriots the past two weeks was just being silly.
A lot of folks are picking apart what Rush did or didn't say about McNabb.
How 'bout his statemenets accusing sports journalists as being (ohmygod) "liberal".
More over, that they were "invested in" or "desirous of" black quarterbacks doing well.
To me, sports in the U.S. seems to be the ultimate meritocracy. Oh, I can see a vague sort of "that would be nice" thing on the part of any sports journalists that gave it a second thought.
But I just don't see most of them as thinking that way...implicitly or otherwise.
I think that's the REAL reflection of just how out of touch Rush is outside of his circle of sycophants.
madpad,
Well, the Eagles aren't going to employ someone for very long if they don't have faith in their actual playing abilities. The notion that the Eagles have McNabb around as a "charity case" is just stupid. If he had continued to stink up the room like he did at the start of 2003, he would have been benched.
The basic problem for the Eagles is that they had lost three NFC championships in a row, and that was fault of the Eagles as a team (e.g., the offensive line didn't protect McNabb against the Panthers and McNabb was knocked of the game, the Eagles defense didn't come up with a big takeaway from the Bucs, etc.) as much as any single player.
Give Elway or Montana the recent Eagles teams and Philadelphia would already have one or two Super Bowl trophies. Elway and Montana are Hall of Fame quarterbacks not simply based on statistics, but on the ability to win close games. The simple fact is that when McNabb had a chance to be the "difference maker" in the three previous conference championships, he wasn't. And one Super Bowl ring won't put McNabb in the pantheon of great quarterbacks. It certainly won't put him in the same room as Montana, arguably the greatest NFL quarterback in history.
McNabb will face a future Hall of Fame QB in Tom Brady. We will see which QB makes a difference for his team.
Gunnels:
Thanks for the transcript.
You're right, Limbaugh criticized McNabb. If all Limbaugh had done was criticize McNabb, no one would have blinked. What got him into trouble was his claim that other people didn't want to criticize McNabb because he is black.
Limbaugh didn't peddle any of the stereotypes (Young did that), he never linked what he saw as McNabb's sub-par performance to his race. He just said he was overrated. Which, at the time, he probably was. Since the Limbaugh comments, his play and his stats have improved markedly; Rush probably did him a favor by pissing him off.
You can disagree with what Rush said in 2003 about McNabb's abilities (although at the time he had the stats on his side), but what you cannot point to is a single statement by Rush that can be called racist.
And yeah, there is a larger point to this. Rush was race-baited. Anyone who is not on the lefty/liberal reservation who says anything regarding race in the US gets race-baited. That is very bad for any long-term solutions to the race issues we have in the US.
Give Elway or Montana the recent Eagles teams and Philadelphia would already have one or two Super Bowl trophies
Depends which Elway you get, the late 80s early-90s Elway or the late 90s Elway. Gee, Elway wasn't able to win without Terrell Davis and a decent O-line. And Joe Montana was fortunate to have a couple WRs named Rice and Taylor, Roger Craig in the backfield din't exactly hurt either. McNabb had neither a decent running game or a game breaking WR during his runs. Notice how much a help a healthy Westbrook has been, even without TO.
To say that Montana and Elway were great quarterbacks is undeniable, but the team you get has a lot to do with it. I'll bet money Until he could beat Dallas in the playoffs, Brett Favre couldn't win the "big games," now when he makes the most basic mistakes it gets laughed off (see: throwing the ball 5 yards passed the line of scrimmage).
I'm not saying any QB can line up without ten other decent players and win the Super Bowl. We certainly know an average QB can play on an otherwise great team and win a Super Bowl ring (witness Trent Dilfer). Statistics can inform but numbers do not establish "greatness." In my opinion, greatness is established by the ability to win big games with clutch performances, to make the critical difference between winning and losing.
As stated before, McNabb is a very good NFL QB but he isn't even the best quarterback in the NFL right now. The only person I can think that would place him with likes of Montana or Elway (or Unitas, the starter on the "All Time NFL Team) would be his mother.
Jose,
I'm not sure what your point is, but who's rating McNabb as the best QB of all time anyway? No one, I belive. But one needn't rate him that high to take issue with Limbaugh's contention that he was not "that good" and that the only reason anyone was surprised by his slump of that time was that he was propped up by the media and the league for being black. If you're arguing with Gary Gunnels because he cited Montana's and Elway's stats, he obviously did that because others have cited McNabb's stats to back Limbaugh. I'm sure there's intangibles that could go either for McNabb or against him, such being the nature of intangibles....
RC,
If Limbaugh was "race-baited," he baited himself.
That said, I should make clear I found Limbaugh's comments goofy rather than horrible. Just like that Harvard guy, he should have known better. The time and place to bring up race was his other show.
Just like that Harvard guy, he should have known better. The time and place to bring up race was his other show.
You got that right.
Sadly, you'd have to be a fool to try to point out that race is a factor in how people treat each other, unless you do so in the service of the lefty liberal party line.
Mo,
You're largely correct. The Eagles lacked the offensive firepower (at RB and WR) in years past (especially in 2001-2002). Westbrook was especially key in play action pass situations yesterday and he's hell of a blocker too.
fyodor,
My point of course is that neither Montana's nor Elway's yearly marks, etc., up to their sixth season were much different than McNabb's (indeed, they are roughly similar). Indeed, up to this point in their careers all that seperated them was that Montana had two rings, and Elway and McNabb had/have none.
McNabb has another 6-8 years left in him and people are already treating him like he is a has been. Talk about silly and irrational responses.
RC,
Yeah, it's so common to hear on sports talk shows left-wingers complaining that white receivers are overrated because they're white.
Sure, race affects how people react to and treat each other, but likely in much more complex ways than Rush's analysis let on. I'm sure McNabb has been discriminated both for and against for being black. But it's the sportscaster's goal to avoid thinking about race when evaluating players. On rare occassions a sportscaster may address a player being underrated because of his race (eg, Shannon Sharpe was quoted in Denver papers several years ago as saying that cornerbacks didn't think Ed MacAffery could beat them because he was white, and Ed himself liked to remind people of how fast he was), but it's their goal to ignore race as much as possible, and it's taboo to criticize a player of any race in a racial context. Maybe we should all be less sensitive and more open to whatever blah blah blah, but regardless, it's not so--heh--black and white as you make it out to be.
I should make clear in case there's any confusion that Shannon Sharpe was actually a player when he was quoted as I indicated within my parentheses in the post above. The journalist didn't comment on the situation himself, just quoted Shannon. And my point, lest it be lost, is that race is a dangerous and explosive issue in general in our society, and while acting "in the service of the lefty liberal party line" may help in some circumstances for some audiences, it is hardly a panacea nor the norm on mainstream sports shows. And while I wish attitudes would be different enough that the subject weren't so taboo or angst-ridden, I'm okay with sportscasters not getting in over their head with it, and regardless, Rush didn't really add much if anything to the discussion with his dubious one-sidedness.
fyodor:
Re: Ed MacAffery. Don Beebe, who played for Buffalo and finally won a Super Bowl with Green Bay also benefited from the "white guys are slow" meme. Beebe actually runs speed camps to teach young athletes better form. http://www.houseofspeed.com
BTW, Rush had nice things to say about McNabb today.
Kevin
Shannon Sharpe (and Dan Marino) predicted that the Patriots would lose. Not a very smart move.
Rush assumed that the reason people were high on Donovan McNabb was because he's black. Not because of his arm, his legs, his read, or anything football-related that could impress NFL fans and commentators and writers who know football, but because they wanted to see a black quarterback succeed.
And now he's been proven thoroughly wrong. Other people were able to see potential in McNabb that Limbaugh missed. What this demonstrates, first and foremost, is that Limbaugh has a poor understanding of footabll, or a poor capacity to evaluate players.
But it also demonstates that Rush is way too quick to attribute Conventional Wisdom with which he disagrees to liberal bias. He looked at a situation in which his read was quite different from what everyone else is saying, and wondered why. And what did he come up with? That other people understood something that he missed? No, that there was a widespread media conspiracy to disseminate falsehoods in order to promote a liberal political agenda.
Perhaps this episode is worth keeping in mind the next time Rush postulates a widespread medai conspiracy to promote a liberal polical agenda.