He Said, He Said
He said Americans "are possibly the dumbest people on the planet…" He said that we Americans have "that big [shit-eating?] grin on our face all the time because our brains aren't loaded down." He asked, "Should such an ignorant people lead the world?" He concluded that "It's all part of the same ball of wax, right? The oil companies, Israel, Halliburton." He analysed, "The motivation for war is simple. The U.S. government started the war with Iraq in order to make it easy for U.S. corporations to do business in other countries. They intend to use cheap labor in those countries, which will make Americans rich." He cheered, "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not `insurgents' or `terrorists' or `The Enemy.' They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow ? and they will win."
Who? You know who.
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I … hate … him.
It is a visceral kind of thing I haven’t felt since Schumer and Clinton in the lead up to the ‘assault weapon’ ban. He is the embodiment of leftist self importance.
Hey Mike! “Manufacturing Consent” was supposed to be a cautionary tale for the left, not a friggin’ How To book …
Who — Jesse Walker????
the proof: who tries to follow the NY Times link sans registration… ha ha.
was it bob hope?
nope. it was mitch cumstein. my roommate.
“The motivation for war is simple. The U.S. government started the war with Iraq in order to make it easy for U.S. corporations to do business in other countries. They intend to use cheap labor in those countries, which will make Americans rich.”
Maybe Mr. Moore can explain how all those greedy corporations are moving to Haiti then?
Our stupidity is embarrassing
I think people love Michael Moore for the same reason they and their bastard children are glued to the tube to see who’ll do what next on what Fox show. Michael Moore helps market a new cool -Americans complaining about how “ignorant” and “stupid” Americans are. Meanwhile, streets are littered with an ever increasing number of effeminate men on scooters carrying little A|X purses. Coincidence? Not at all. What is new is always old, and for the left it is still that sycophantic obsession with anything European, including the absurd notion that we’re any more ignorant than they. Watch out for Moore on a Vespa. He will run you over, because he doesn’t really care about you when he’s not in character.
stop it. First of all, Michael Moore would have to use a whole ox-team of vespas to move his fat ass even an inch. But more importantly, to read a larger “Europeanification” into the success of this one film is to give it too much credit. Europe wants to think that we’re stupid, and they’d have elevated whatever pseudointellectual they could find to celebrity status as long as he’d be willing to tell them what they wanted to hear.
“Meanwhile, streets are littered with an ever increasing number of effeminate men on scooters carrying little A|X purses.”
classic.
this article just made me want to throw something heavy at Moore’s smug, fat face.
“They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet”
Actually, given the gross receipts from Fahrenheit 9/11 I’m almost inclined to agree with him.
I do like how his sentiment changes from third person (“they”) to first person (“we”). He catches himself alienating his customer base, then tosses in some self-deprecation to Keep It Real.
You go, fatass. Go make some more tripe to sell to people so stupid they’ll buy it and call it truth.
Maybe he and Gibson should get together a little support group for Disillusioned Filmmakers Who Once Thought Themselves Uniquely Important.
Today, while driving back from an assignment, I listened to one of our local Rush Limbaugh-wannabes (he even gets to sit in for Rush when he’s in drug treament—err, I mean on vacation) read a Chicago Sun Times piece on the various points where Moore either get’s it wrong or is misleading. This was followed by the usual rant about how anyone who questioned the sainted President Dubbya is in league with Iraqi insurgents who lop off the heads of U.S. hostages. While listening to the article and comments, I came to the following conclusion: Political debate is dead.
In the U.S., politics have degenerated to the point where we don’t even try to convince one another that our beliefs or policies are the correct course of action. Instead, we do everything to tar, feather, lambast, impune, and attack. Ad hominem sound bites (“My opponent is a amoral, terrorist-sympahizing, liberal!” “Oh yeah? Well, you’re a hate-mongering, jingoistic, right-winger!”) and preaching to the choir have replaced reasoned debate.
Give me a reason to vote FOR you rather than against you. Tell me why your policies are superior to your oppenents, and do so without doom-and-gloom scenarios about how one side or the other will ruin America.
This is not to say that neither side doesn’t have stupid, unconstitutional, or just plan immoral beliefs. However, I would like to see PROOF that Dubbya is crypto-fascist who wants Haliburton to run the world, or PROOF that Kerry would sell the country down the river to Bin Ladin, Hussain, or the “Gay Agenda.” While you’re at it, make that objective proof. No left wing AV club geeks, or right wing schlock radio hosts please. If you can’t provide such proof, then shut the fuck up.
>> “Manufacturing Consent” was supposed to be a cautionary tale for the left, not a friggin’ How To book
was it really? or just clever misdirection?
It’s pretty crappy journalism, though.
From the Mirror in Nov 2003: “Take his description of his fellow countrymen and their blind pursuit of the American Dream: ‘They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet… in thrall to conniving, thieving, smug pricks.'”
David Brooks, NYT 2004 has Moore ‘intoning’ this to the Mirror, and Europeans getting ‘quite excited’ as a result.
But of course, it’s a quote from Dude Where’s My Country…
Guess Dave was on a deadline.
Does Moore mean we’re “dumb like a fox” (news channel broadcast)?
And if Moore says it, can it still be true?
While I can’t stand many of Moore’s antics, I love the idea of his movie: tearing down the mystique of the president. It’s a tradition every president must be subjected to.
“Meanwhile, streets are littered with an ever increasing number of effeminate men on scooters carrying little A|X purses.”
Interesting. So it’s not OK when europeans stereotype americans as hick cowboys or whatever our image over there is but it’s quite allright when we stereotype them as catwalk crowding pansies ? Ever hear of soccer hooligans ?
Let’s feed Ann Coulter to Michael Moore. She doesn’t have a lot of meat on her bones but he’d probably choke to death on her ego.
Two problems solved at once.
Sometimes, Michael Moore says stupid things. Sometimes he says inaccurate things.
But much of what he says makes sense to me, and is backed by factual information.
Many surveys and books demonstrate the incredible ignorance of the American public. You don’t have to look very hard to find them.
“Many surveys and books demonstrate the incredible ignorance of the American public. You don’t have to look very hard to find them.”
Green, pick your favorite one, maybe two (we’re Americans, we can’t handle more than that), and cite them as examples. Otherwise your post resembles a Michael Moore flick.
Exactly what Jason Ligon said. Couldn’t have put it better myself. Moore is a pathetic piece of crap who’s laughing all the way to the bank on the gullibility of his leftist (and/or Bush-hating) audience.
The interesting political thing to watch will be how Kerry chooses to deal with him and his magnum opus (assuming the Moore-leaning media actually press him on it).
Actually, it’s kind of ironic that Brooks would get on Moore’s case for being critical of Joe American, since Brooks himself has such a schizoid view of the common man. In his editorial mode he’ll praise the Red volk as the salt of the earth, but in his most recent book he makes them out to be every bit as shallow and moronic as the Bobos in Blue land.
Europe wants to think that we’re stupid, and they’d have elevated whatever pseudointellectual they could find to celebrity status as long as he’d be willing to tell them what they wanted to hear.
In other words, you can’t tell them from American conservatives without a map.
Who or what is a “Moore”?
Sorry, had to get that out of the way – but everyone is wasting a lot of time/space/ink/pixels over this man. People are willing to give him money as he satisfies a need, and he is laughing all the way to the bank.
And then there was thoreau giving him legitimacy by stating his views are close to mainstream (that bothered me more than Moore himself 🙁
Isn’t our President evidence enough of the American populace’s ignorance?
This would take far more research effort than I’m up to, but could someone give us a few quotes from the contemporary detractors of Mark Twain, Will Rogers and H. L. Mencken?
Moore is both a swine and a pearl… as are most of us, once you get to know us.
Burp. Bbbbrrrpppt.
In response to rst:
“‘They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet’
Actually, given the gross receipts from Fahrenheit 9/11 I’m almost inclined to agree with him.”
Restated as: Actually, given the number of people who voted for a dim-witted Texan liar in the 2000 presidential election I’m almost inclined to agree with him.
In response to rst:
“‘They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet’
Actually, given the gross receipts from Fahrenheit 9/11 I’m almost inclined to agree with him.”
Restated as: Actually, given the number of people who voted for a dim-witted Texan liar in the 2000 presidential election I’m almost inclined to agree with him.
Yes, let’s please sit down and compare Moore to a an assortment of philosophers, theologians, novelists and journalists. Oops. Wrong medium.
I thought a cultural critic is supposed to explain something? Capture the moment somehow? Why are all these dismissive critiques of Moore utterly limp compared to the force of his movie?
Maybe it’s because their point is necessarily equivalent to arguing that Americans *are* stupid for liking this movie and thereby proving Moore right. Or maybe these dim hacks are just missing the point, raging like bulls seeing red everytime anyone utters something “anti-American.”
Moore ate David Brooks’ readership as a topping to his dessert last night. On the way home from NYC last night I saw Moore’s movie playing in 6 out of 10 theatres at a cinemaplex…so you better come up with something better than “Michael Moore is dumb, because he thinks Americans are dumb” as your pathetically ironic point.
“Who? You know who.”
I thought the answer was going to be Chomsky! Guess I’m one of those stupid Americans 🙂
“Moore ate David Brooks’ readership as a topping to his dessert last night. On the way home from NYC last night I saw Moore’s movie playing in 6 out of 10 theatres at a cinemaplex…”
Moore’s movie got about 2.5 M viewers this weekend, with about 800,000 coming yesterday. Brooks writes for the NYT which has readership that ranges from 1.1 M daily to 1.6 M on Sundays. I’m sure Moore can eat more dessert topping than most, but you’re exaggerating just a bit.
Green, pick your favorite one, maybe two (we’re Americans, we can’t handle more than that), and cite them as examples. Otherwise your post resembles a Michael Moore flick.
What Americans Know about Politics and Why It Matters
First Amendment survey finds knowledge lacking
Finding this took four minutes.
rst,
Then go don’t look very hard and find them for us. Please, enlighten me as to how incredibly ignorant I am and you are not.
I was not suggesting posters to this board are ignorant. I am referring to America as a whole.
Also, see pipa.org
P.S. I am not a fan of the Washington Times, but this article pointed to a survey.
hey green:
from your first example, “while Americans are not as knowledgeable as they should be, they are not completely ignorant of politics and that the level of political knowledge has remained virtually unchanged over 40 years”
and
“that many Americans know a lot and many know nothing, and that the proportion has not changed over the past half century.”
how does that show that we really are that stoopid in a different, meaningful way from the rest of the (western) world?
not just in the us:
presse.uvm.dk/jus/250303.htm shows silly examples of what danish school kids don’t know, either. and they’re touted as the best educated in the world. just ask ’em.
cheers,
drf
pepe,
feed ann coulter to michael moore? no, a better idea would be to feed him to her. put a little meat on those bones and hubba hubba.
I have to admit, I don’t have strong feelings for Moore one way or the other, but Mr. Freund…
I am deeply intrigued by the way you listed the quotes:
He said that we Americans have “that big [shit-eating?] grin on our face all the time because our brains aren’t loaded down.”
`Hey! Hi! How’s it going?’ We’ve got that big [expletive] grin on our face all the time because our brains aren’t loaded down.”
I really like how you moved the “we” outside of the quotes when you wrote it. With what I know about the way the language centers of the brain work, I might almost assume you didn’t want the readers to realize what a difference that little alteration makes in the intent of the sentence. Your way, distances Moore from americans. Moores way includes him as a silly american.
Amusing. And probably even a bit more dishonest than Moore himself.
Quite beneath you frankly sir.
Christopher Hitchens said it perfectly. The Europeans want to believe that all Americans, are fat, stupid, arrogant, ignorent, and self absorbed and by embracing Michael Moore as one their own they have embraced someone who is a perfect espression of all of that.
“I thought a cultural critic is supposed to explain something? Capture the moment somehow? Why are all these dismissive critiques of Moore utterly limp compared to the force of his movie?”
Well, Leni Refinstahl did all of that and more and had a hell of a lot more talent than Michael Moore. Does that make her anything more than a facist stooge? “Captureing the moment” by lying and being on the wrong side of history is not justified by popularity.
Anti-Americanism is a get-rich-quick scheme in Europe these days. I could take a crap, through a stick that says “USA SuxX0r5!!11!!” on it and it would do well.
Come to think of it, that’s Moore’s strategy too.
Gunnar,
I’m too damned lazy to do a websearch to prove it, but I’ve seen umpteen million newspaper articles in my lifetime on the latest poll of college students, at least a third of whom can’t place Abraham Lincoln or WWI within fifty years or find Europe on a map. Not to mention polls of the public at large which find a majority can’t perform even junior high civics crap like naming the three branches of government. And how about those surveys of people who thought the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence was written by Karl Marx, or that “from each according to his ability…,” etc., was in the Constitution?
A few weeks ago, Bill O’Reilly was bloviating on some circuit court’s latest outrage against decency, and one of his callers said “the judiciary’s almost becoming a fourth branch of government!” I don’t think he was being ironic.
I used to watch Family Feud just for the inadvertent humor. Once when Richard Dawson asked for Iron Curtain countries (this was a while back), I got to watch a family frantically wracking their brains for answers like Ireland, Iceland, and (my favorite) West Germany. Well, I guess you’d have to have been drunk to appreciate it.
I am no big fan of Michael Moore. First of all I think he’s a hypocrite more than a liar as most of his critics would rather portray him. For a man who whines against capitalism as much as he does, he certainly is raking in the bucks. I can’t believe what an icon he has become to the left. Unfortunately most of the criticisms of George Bush by the left have degenerated into a psychotic breakdown devoid of any rationality whatsoever. Sure, there may be alot of threads of truth in Moore’s films, but it is mostly his opinion. It’s pathetic that the left is taking it as gospel
Actually, given the number of people who voted for a dim-witted Texan liar in the 2000 presidential election I’m almost inclined to agree with him.
Depends on your definition of stupid. Gore wasn’t exactly a shining alternative, even if he did invent the internet. What a genius that stiff must be. What a shame we didn’t have a chance to see how he would have fucked it up, instead of seeing how Bush fucks it up.
When you elect a president, you are picking the person whom you are going to blame for fucking up your planet. If you’re lucky, and you have been, you’ll be able to pile blame on him so reliably that by the time the man leaves office you’ll be convinced that this shithole planet was a utopia before Bush was elected. Moore knows this; his genius if any is his ability to sell his b.s. as a “documentary” and have people actually believe it’s a documentary. It is in truth a well-constructed propaganda piece, the populist equivalent of such blockbusters as Reefer Madness. I have to hand it to him, he too can hoodwink with the skill of a Bush, or perhaps even a Chalabi.
So it’s not OK when europeans stereotype americans as hick cowboys or whatever our image over there is but it’s quite allright when we stereotype them as catwalk crowding pansies ?
It’s not a stereotype, it’s a marketed attitude. Catwalk crowding pansies is an aspect which is apparently easily marketed for consumption; idiots buy it because it makes them feel like they belong to what they’ve come to understand as “European”. Part of that is the childish belief that Americans Are Ignorant Imperialist Protectionist Dogs And We Are Not. Arms crossed, lower lip stuck out.
Many surveys and books demonstrate the incredible ignorance of the American public. You don’t have to look very hard to find them.
Then go don’t look very hard and find them for us. Please, enlighten me as to how incredibly ignorant I am and you are not.
Hmmmm . . . Michael Moore and a Vespa scooter. Like those fat twin wrestlers from the 70’s.
And, of course there’s this:
http://theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4026&n=1
And, of course there’s this:
http://theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4026&n=1
And, of course there’s this:
http://theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4026&n=1
sorry, the form was hanging.