The RNC Took My Baby Away
MSNBC discovers "conservative punks," i.e., kids who like loud rock music but don't necessarily fall in line with the politics of, I don't know, Jackson "No Nukes" Browne or The Beastie Boys, who are in favor of a Free Tibet and an dethroned George W. Bush (side question for Dalai Lama boosters: From a Buddhist perspective shouldn't it be self-evident the DL and the Tibetans are getting exactly what they deserve for past sins in former lives?).
The MSNBC story, with mandatory Ramones pic and pro-American Johnny R quote, is here.
Without getting into too lengthy a bit, shouldn't it be self-evident that a person's aesthetic tastes don't necessarily translate into political ones, especially at the partisan level? David Weigel made that basic point in his Reason review of Danny Goldberg's crapola Dispatches from the Culture Wars and Brian Doherty and I made it in our obit for Joey Ramone (warning: both of these pieces include the mandatory Johnny R right-wing quote). And Doherty made it at length in his wonderful story about the "strange politics of millionaire rock stars" (this probably has a Johnny quote in it, too, but I can't remember off-hand).
And lest anyone forget, punk, in its earliest forms, was alternately anti-political or as likely to be right-wing as left (anyone else remember Stiv Bator's unabashed jingoism during the Iranian hostage crisis?). One of the reasons punk was liberating was precisely because it mocked hippie-ish social uplift and message music, replacing it with a pure nihilism that was fun, fun, fun until your daddy took the Carbona away.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
"and *an* dethroned George W. Bush"
Virginia Postrel would have never let that through. Way to edit.
Let's not forget "Censorshit" off Mondo Bizzarro, Joey Ramone's wonderful song about Tipper Gore.
...or Frank Zappa, and "Frank Zappa Meets the Mothers of Prevention," including his 12 minute song of loops and samples from the Tipper-inspired congressional hearings where he was harassed by some fuckwit congressman whose name escapes me (and where Al Gore claims to be a huge fan of his).
DIY refers to politics as well as music.
And who could forget the 80s skinheads who expressed their hatred for nanny-state environmentalists with their green laces?
It was my delimma with Rage Against the Machine. I liked the sound of their music, but I was forced to intentionally tune out the lyrics. They were raging against most things I think are important, and against me in particular as an anglo male in America.
Similarly, I can't help but have my movie viewing choices colored by the outspoken idiocy of the cast. I just can't watch Sarandon.
I have the same problem with alt-country. Much as I love the music, I stopped buying "No Depression," because I got tired of the way they turned everything (and I mean everything)into some left-wing polemic.
The reason these stories are especially boring and derivative is that they profile a type of music that's on the decline and point out characterists that have always existed with it on some level.
What would really be interesting is a look at laptop electro/IDM makers that inevitably favor relaxed IP and progressive tech politics in that vein. As many techies are libertarian, we can guess techie-musicians are too
Anyone who's ever seen "The Filth and The Fury" and watched the boiling anger against the conditions of life in England under the Labour Party could well understand how Thatcherism came to be.
In my mind, you don't get more controversial of a song than "Bodies" -- it's a "pro-choice" AND "anti-abortion" song at the same time. If a definition of genius is to hold two contradictory ideas at the same time and not crack under the strain, that song meets the criteria.
You can be "pro-choice" on abortion and make the choice not to abort. That's the point of "choice".
You can also be "pro_choice" and be personally against one of the choices. The point is you believe it's an individuals choice.
no contradiction.
The only real contradiction possible is being anti-abortion and going ahead and having one.
Thanks for the pointless and off-topic nitpicking, Nanny spoodge. Feel better?
Did you not notice the quotes? "Pro-choice" and "anti-abortion" are not my labels, per se, but they are in fact well-recognized labels to delineate the two most vocal camps in the abortion debate.
Nick Gillespie,
"From a Buddhist perspective shouldn't it be self-evident the DL and the Tibetans are getting exactly what they deserve for past sins in former lives?"
No, not really. (1) Reincarnation is tied to individuals, not groups. (2) You misapprehend a basic concept in Buddhism - Karma. Karma is neither fate, nor predestination imposed upon one to which one should sudmit; indeed, can be escaped from. (3) Buddhism does not excuse the evil acts of others in an effort to punish some.
Speaking of Rage, am I the only one who can't hear "Sleep Now in the Fire" without expecting it to go:
I am the Nina
the Pinta
the Santa
Maria
and just when
it hit them
somebody turned around and shouted
PLAY THAT FUNKY MUSIC WHITE BOY . . .
BTW, there are some on the Marxist left who take a pretty jaundiced view of "progressive" efforts to canonize the Dalai Lhama. Pre-Anschluss Tibet was a theocracy built on serf labor.
Jim Henley,
Somebody once told me you could easily imagine any song segueing into the opening guitar hook of "Smoke on the Water." I started trying it with every song I could think of, and he was right.
My experience with RATM was the opposite -- I knew their politics in advance, so figured I wouldn't enjoy their music much (and a zillion programmed spins of "Bulls On Parade" when I was a college radio DJ did nothing to disabuse me of that notion), so I didn't listen to them. One day not too long ago, I flipped over to WHFS while I was in the car, and heard a song I really got into. Looked it up when I got home: "Renegades of Funk." Dammit.
My own half-assed personal theory about punk music is that it was a conservative movement in a musical sense -- so many of them were emulating the sound of old Who and Kinks records and by implication denouncing later bands who brought more complex aspects into rock.
The fact that there was so much leftist/anarchist crap spouted by punk bands I would put down to the fact that it's a lot harder to think through all the twisted logic in politics than it is to figure out the chord progressions in a standard rocknroll tune. The leftist/anarchist approach to politics is basically to try to clear everything off the table and start new, which is pretty much in tune with how a lot of kids have felt about the world at some point in their lives. Somehow this sort of thinking is able to co-exist in the same brain of someone who wants to get back to traditional, fundamental values in their music.
Forunately, at some point it dawns on most of us that life isn't that simple, and we all get serious and study Hayek and Friedman and vote libertarian politicians into national office...
You know, making a mashup of RATM vs. Wild Cherry - Sleep Now in the Funky Music could probably get you a mention in Gawker, or at least the free downloads section of Pitchfork Media.
Thank you, thank you.
Phil: "Renegades" is a great song, but I liked it even better when I misheard it initially as "We're the REDNECK KINGS of funk."
Anyway, did Rage write that song? Wasn't it on their "covers album" or something?
Yes, I'm 43 years old. How did you guess?
Come on, even libertarians have to love that the bassist for RATM had a sticker on his guitar that said "Arm the Homeless," well, until everyone but Zach joined Audioslave. 🙂
Henley--
That's hysterical. I'll probably hear it that way from now on.
Great title BTW, Nick...
Some examples: Paul Weller of the Jam has never lived down saying positive things about Thatcher back in the early 80s. He did recently release the anti-war tune Bombs over Baghdad.
Lots of streetpunk was working class idiot conservative - Cock Sparrer to name one: England Belongs to Me and the anti-internationalist Out on an Island.
Magazine's Shot from Both Sides.
Some examples: Paul Weller of the Jam has never lived down saying positive things about Thatcher back in the early 80s. He did recently release the anti-war tune Bombs over Baghdad.
Lots of streetpunk was working class idiot conservative - Cock Sparrer to name one: England Belongs to Me and the anti-internationalist Out on an Island.
Magazine's Shot from Both Sides.
Hey, libertarianism is all about the devolution
of power to the individual, right?
"I?ll say it again in the land of the free
Use your freedom of choice
Your freedom of choice!" - - Mark Mothersbaugh & Gerald V. Casale
http://www.clubdevo.com/mp_redesign/songs.html
Kevin
I've seen a bunch of posts by Mods the last couple of times there's been a thread about punk rock. Are there a lot of Mod libertarians? One of them usually posts something about what an enormous influence the Who and the Kinks had on punk rock. What do you mean? I might understand if by enormous influence you meant Jam tribute bands, but I don't think Jam tribute bands had much of an influence.
For the record, the Buddhist bit was meant as a joke. The tradition of the laughing Buddha--it's rare for any major religion to incorporate images of humor or jocularity--is one for which I have the utmost respect.
Right leaning punk goes from anti-immigrant, anti-free trade blue collar America First Oi bands like Stars and Stripes to dirty, rebellious, anti-authority, anti-government, anti-almost everyone bands like Antiseen, Cocknoose, and, though it's a stretch, even the mighty GG Allin.
Antiseen's bass player runs as a libertarian in local North Carolina elections.
Kevin Carson:
"Somebody once told me you could easily imagine any song segueing into the opening guitar hook of "Smoke on the Water." I started trying it with every song I could think of, and he was right."
Reminds me of Emily Dickinson and "The Yellow Rose of Texas". Those stunts can totally ruin an intended dark vibe.
Nice Oingo Boingo reference.
Anyone remember Fear's "Bomb the Russians"?
Or the Vandals 'Fun with my machine gun' (which, while not necessarily about RESPONSIBLE gun ownership...)
Gary Gunnels:
Thanks for the corrections to the Buddhist crack. That statement struck me as a bit ignorant and flippant, though I appreciated the article as a whole.
I wonder if there are many Buddhist/Libertarians? There seems to be some conflicts and contradictions, but it still works for me. I was talking to an enlightened individual who runs weekly meditation sessions in his house, and after revealing my political leanings, he paused, and then said that Buddhism is one of the few spiritual disciplines that Libertarians can "stomac".
I just find it strange that a Buddhist would be buying a gun at a pawn shop.. bitching about the waiting period. 🙂
Stars and Stripes was a parody band made up of Slapshot members. So I don't know if you can really count them.
Polka is the only pure musical form...
Tim, yeah, I realize they're a Slapshot side-project, but somehow I doubt their lyrics are far removed from what those guys actually believe. One of the other bands in that vein (politically) would be the FU's.
joanne - at least in nyc, most of the laptoppers i hang out with or play with are either political apathetic or solidly NOTBUSH. it makes for interesting discussions at first, but i'm not much of an evangelizer for my particular inclinations so the discussion tends to stop after the fifth or sixth mention of bush is satan.
many of my favorite musicians have political positions i find repugnant, but i don't like them less because of it. (godspeed you black emperor comes to mind, as does whitehouse)
From what I remember the Stars and Stripes record was a pure joke meant to poke fun at skinheads. Sort of in the same way they were "straight-edge in your face" but the first to mock the whole scene.
Well maybe so. I'm not really into that scene anyways. If anything, I'm more into the AntiSeen/Confederacy of Scum redneck punk bands.
I don't see any problem with listening to bands you disagree with. R.E.M. has always had the most laughably left-wing stances, and people have already mentioned RATM. Tool has the most pretentious New Age mish mash of spirituality, and I'm actually planning on Episcopal seminary, but I still listen to (and love) them. You can ignore the content of the lyrics (which I can do when they're really stupid) and appreciate their poetry, or just ignore them entirely if they're horrible but the music is good, or you can not listen to the band. If the last, you're missing out on a lot of really good music.
I don't know that the Mods influenced punk as much as they did New Wave, however you define that. NW was a bit of a catch-all, covering retro-rockers like Dave Edmunds, graduates of pub rock like Dave's Rockpile mate Nick Lowe, and even more approachable acts like the Pretenders. Ms. Hynde & Co. covered "Stop Your Sobbin'", after all, and later Chrissie DID have a child with Ray Davies. Elvis Costello's jones for early Tamla/Motown is obvious, and he and a few others wore 60's-ish fashion, however ironically, if only for the contrast with the increasingly baroque costumery of prog-rockers, hippie holdovers, and disco drones.
Malcolm McLaren's early forays into promoting music were, after all, meant to sell clothes, from red leather outfits on the NY Dolls to (Boy) George O'Dowd's drag.
Kevin
(used to buy skinny ties at garage sales for NOTHING!)
Mr. Nice Guy,
"Thanks for the corrections to the Buddhist crack. That statement struck me as a bit ignorant and flippant, though I appreciated the article as a whole."
Yes, I did as well.
"I wonder if there are many Buddhist/Libertarians?"
Well, I'm a Buddhist; I'm also nominally a libertarian. Its an interesting question because a lot of economists and philosophers with left-wing notions have tried to graft left ideas onto Buddhism, but given Buddhism's emphasis on individualism and how it eschews materialism (in the philosophical sense), that seems problematic. Furthermore, Buddhism entails a rigidity in actions and moral thought that I think most on the left (and the right as well) would have a hard time dealing with; hell, I have a hard time dealing with it.
"I just find it strange that a Buddhist would be buying a gun at a pawn shop.. bitching about the waiting period. :)"
Well, I own several guns and I am a Buddhist. Buddhists expect a great deal from adherents, yet they are at the same time forgiving of faults or wrong decisions. Heck, some of the funniest people I've ever met were lamas. (I'm not an adherent of Tibetan Buddhism, though I've studied with some lamas; like most Westerners I have an easier time dealing with Zen Buddhism.)
Here are three quite libertarian tunes that I really like by Oingo Boingo:
Catitalism:
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Capitalism-lyrics-Oingo-Boingo/166E1E9646045B2C48256A2B002F906A
New Generation:
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/New-Generation-lyrics-Oingo-Boingo/C026CC01F738B32248256A2B00315B14
Wake Up! (it's 1984)
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Wake-Up-It's-1984-lyrics-Oingo-Boingo/CFA8C822420E4D1148256A2B00306204
Douglas Fletcher:
"Forunately, at some point it dawns on most of us that life isn't that simple, and we all get serious and study Hayek and Friedman and vote libertarian politicians into national office..."
Sign me up!
Pennywise has a song that could be seen as Libertarian. It's called "Fuck Authority", here are the lyrics - you decide.
------------
Someday
You gotta find another way
You gotta right your mind and live by what you say
Today
Is just another day
Let?s set your sights and try to find our way
I say fuck authority
Silent majority
Raised by the system
Now it?s time to rise against them
We?re sick of your treason
Sick of your lies
Fuck no, we won?t listen
We?re gonna open your eyes
Frustration
Domination
Feel the rage of a new generation
We?re living
We?re dying
We?re never gonna stop
Stop trying
You know
You?ve got a right to take control
You gotta take offense against the status quoue
No way
We?re gonna stand for it today
Fight for your rights
It?s time we had our say!
I say fuck authority
Silent majority
Raised by the system
Now it?s time to rage against them
We?re sick of your treason
Sick of your lies
Fuck no, we won?t listen
We?re gonna open your eyes!
Frustration
Domination
Feel the rage of a new generation
We?re living
We?re dying
We?re sick and tired of your endless lying
Destroy
Enjoy
Your fucking world is our brand new toy
Dominate
Eliminate
Your gonna feel the wrath
Wrath of hate
Fuck authority
Silent majority
Raised by the system
Now it?s time to rise against them
We?re sick of your treason
Sick of your lies
Fuck no, we won?t listen
We?re gonna open your eyes
Frustration
Domination
Feel the rage of a new generation
We?re living
We?re dying
We?re never gonna stop
Stop trying(x4)
------------
The video is on Launch.com