Laugh, Clown, Laugh

New at Reason: Brian Doherty congratulates Michael Moore on his latest censorship crisis.

Comments

[linden]

"If Moore truly believes in his movie, maybe he should lobby to close the weapons plant, or maybe he should build a manufacturing plant in Columbine so that parents wouldn't be tempted to drive for hours to go to work."

Actually, iirc that wasn't a weapons plant. Wasn't it found out they made satellites?

[Gary Gunnels]

On a related not, another fat pant load - George Bush - declared yesterday National Prayer Day.

[Gadfly]

18 posts and not one addressing the subject of MM's film. The facts of the Bush family connections to the Saudi oil sheiks and the Bin Laden family, coupled with their clearance to leave the country without so much as an interview about 911 are apparently of no consequence to this reasonable crowd.

[MALAK]

He needs it the way his Presidency is going

[Eric]

joe,
Read the story I posted. Disney never agreed to distribute the film in the first place. Moore was lying, and admitted it.

[The Lonewacko Blog]

PETA has suggested that Moore lose some weight.

[joe]

Eric, the story has nothing to do with the point I raised. The "lie" is about timing, not intent.

[planethoth]

Bravo to Brian on this one, except for the gratuituous anti-Israel slight thrown in there. Not showing 'Jenin, Jenin' in Israel may indeed be censorship---and as Brian points out, very much undermined by the age of media on demand. But Israel's effective position in a perpetual state of war does not afford it the luxury, like that of the United States, of taking what is essentially enemy propaganda lightly. Sure, you can argue this is an unjustified curtailing of civil liberties regardless. But the precarious position of politics in the Middle East is much, much different than the relative safety of North America. I believe as much as any libertarian in the moral superiority of voluntarism and freedom from coercion. However, you might ask yourself, despite the universality of those principles, how they may not be possible to uphold in the current context of countries that aren't living with domestic peace. Next time, better to compare the United States with Canada, Australia, or Belgium rather than countries like Israel which is surrounded by enemies.

[planethoth]

Bravo to Brian on this one, except for the gratuituous anti-Israel slight thrown in there. Not showing 'Jenin, Jenin' in Israel may indeed be censorship---and as Brian points out, very much undermined by the age of media on demand. But Israel's effective position in a perpetual state of war does not afford it the luxury, like that of the United States, of taking what is essentially enemy propaganda lightly. Sure, you can argue this is an unjustified curtailing of civil liberties regardless. But the precarious position of politics in the Middle East is much, much different than the relative safety of North America. I believe as much as any libertarian in the moral superiority of voluntarism and freedom from coercion. However, you might ask yourself, despite the universality of those principles, how they may not be possible to uphold in the current context of countries that aren't living with domestic peace. Next time, better to compare the United States with Canada, Australia, or Belgium rather than countries like Israel which is surrounded by enemies.

[Brent Smith]

joe:
"What'a particularly interesting is the reason why Disney won't release the film: because they fear Jeb Bush will cease the State of Florida's preferential treatement of the Disney Corporation."

You can't *possibly* be this stupid.

Jeb Bush, who will end his final term as governor of Florida in two years, is going to single-handedly re-write the state's tax code to punish the state's biggest tourist attraction and one of its largest employers?

[richard]

Linden, I think that you are right and wrong. It was a satellite factory, making satellites to be used in conjunction with smart bombs...so they are weapons factories.

Joe,the Florida legislature has the power to cease Disney's preferred status, not the Governor. Further, the Bush family's connection to the oil sheiks is because of the first Bush's oil inventions and position as a head of the CIA during the Nixon administration. This is no secret. If you think it is, then you have been living in a cave.

[Dan]

I had to burst out laughing when I heard the conspiracy theory Moore's trying to peddle -- that Disney was afraid of Jeb Bush. That's like hearing that Wal-mart is afraid of the governor of Arkansas, or Microsoft is afraid of the governor of Washington.

Florida politicians ask *Disney* for permission to do something, not vice-versa. If Bush tried to carry out some kind of vendetta on Disney, he'd be bounced out of office faster than you can say "Mickey Mouse".

Disney turned down distribution of "Farenheit 9/11" last year because they felt it would be damaging to their brand to be associated with a kook. And that's the whole story.

[Ron]

I though Super Size Me was the latest Moore documentary.

[Tom]

This "censorship" crap about Moore is a stunt. I was watching BBC television the other night and the interviewer treated Michael Moore with the sort of reverence one uses for the Pope, fcrissakes. Moore is a supremely effective master of propoganda. No shame in that -- he's no different from Rush Limbaugh -- but when Moore tries to play the victim, journalists should be sharp enough to see through his spin.

[John Hensley]

There are liars, damned liars, and Michael "the NRA is a KKK front" Moore.

[richard]

Joe, it has been almost 3 hours now. Are you going to respond, or does your silence indicate exactly how full of shit Moore's and your position are?

[Just Stopping By]

Richard,

Lack of response does not necessarily indicate lack of fortitude.

Not that "Joe" is not full of (can I say this on the air?) shit.

[zymurgist]

Michael Moore is an attention whore, plain and simple. He cries "censorship" all the way to the bank. The man reminds me of Howard Stern, except Stern can actually be funny sometimes.

[David Tomlin]

Someone is making a documentary called "Michael Moore Hates America". As I understand it, it isn't really about Moore, anymore than BFC was about Columbine. It will, however, have a camera crew hounding Moore for an interview.

[chthus]

MALAK,

Your wish is this guys command.

http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/

[richard]

"Bowling for Columbine" was a documentary? Horseshit. That movie was pure dogmatic drivel. Nothing in that movie was relevant to the killings. Where were the interviews of the kids who picked on the murderers? Or the interviews of the teachers who ignored the open and obvious dangers, yet could do nothing because of institutional incompetence? If that movie was a documentary, the Discovery Channel should show rerun "Bambi" to highlight the communication skills of deer.

If Moore truly believes in his movie, maybe he should lobby to close the weapons plant, or maybe he should build a manufacturing plant in Columbine so that parents wouldn't be tempted to drive for hours to go to work.

Does anyone seriously critique the shit that is spewed in "documentaries" anymore? Moore's movies are grounded in as much fact as the 861 tax movement.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

It's nice that the media has a fat, ugly, arrogant, hypocritical, lying dickhead on each side of the political spectrum.

Question: what is with MM's snaggle, yellow teeth? You would think he can afford to see a dentist, for Christ's sake.

[wellfellow]

Mr. Nice Guy,

Don't you see? He's "of the people", dentistry might remind people that he has money.

[Ironchef]

Corporate/Government critics have a place in a free society. Unfortunately blows all his credibility gained from his (barely) entertaining films when people find out the truth: they are not documentaries, only propoganda done through editing, pandering, and psudeo-emotional appeal.

He is a liar and a fraud. The more well-known he becomes, the further he sinks into his bed of lies.

[Eric]

Yes, in this case, Moore is an admitted liar.

[Pavel]

Let a hundred flowers bloom. Let a thousand Michael Moores contend.

[Phil]

"they are not documentaries, only propoganda done through editing, pandering, and psudeo-emotional appeal."

You just described all mass-media.

[MALAK]

Michael Moore is a fat pant-load. To continue referring to him as a documentary film maker is a disservice to those directors, of whatever political stripe, who actually understand what a documentary is. Somehow I have the niggling feeling that this IS just a publicity grab on his part. I'd like to see someone do a doc. film on Moore highlighting all his biases, faults, errors, lies, etc. Mind you, he'd probably sue anyone with the effrontery to try it.

[joe]

What'a particularly interesting is the reason why Disney won't release the film: because they fear Jeb Bush will cease the State of Florida's preferential treatement of the Disney Corporation.

One would think that such a chain of events would raise the interests of libertarians. Apparently not.

[Phil]

What'a particularly interesting is the reason why Disney won't release the film: because they fear Jeb Bush will cease the State of Florida's preferential treatement of the Disney Corporation.

Last I looked, the Florida legislature, not Jeb Bush, has say-so over the state budget and tax code, but it may be different on Planet Joe. In any case, since there isn't a single shred of evidence to support this conjecture aside from one sentence uttered by Moore's agent, we don't have to worry about its truthfullness anyway, unless we're Joe, in which case we buy it hook, line and sinker.

You really stepped in the shit on this one, Joe, as others above me have explained.

[MJ]

From Mike Thomas of the Orlando Sentinel:

"If the parks did get any tax breaks, they certainly didn't depend on Jeb Bush's goodwill. Jeb couldn't tax himself without the legislature. And lately he would have better luck getting four mules to sing in a barbershop quartet than getting the legislature to do his bidding.

But backed by the media coverage, Moore was off and running with the Bush Brothers conspiracy."

"Moore is a big fat liar.

Disney pays the same in state taxes as any other corporation doing business in Florida. Disney's one big advantage is that it enjoys governmental powers on its property through the Reedy Creek Improvemnet District. But this has been in place since 1967.

Lawmakers ordered an audit of the district this year in response to the threat of the Comcast takeover. But the alleged conversation between Eisner and Moore's agent took place a ago, long before Comcast and Reedy Creek were issues."-5/7/04

joe, just because Michael Moore says something does not make it interesting, or true. In fact, given what is now known about Moore's approach to filmmaking and publicity, whatever he says should be taken as untrue until proven otherwise.