Wokka Wokka Wokka Wokka

New at Reason: Neil Steinberg goes on a politically incorrect eating binge.

Comments

[Jean Bart]

Frogs are tasty (well, their legs at least). This coming from a Frog. 🙂

Madog,

Try boa if you ever see it.

[Rob]

dhex:

Squirrel tastes sort of halfway between a rabbit and a raccoon.

[Corvid]

I grew up (and still live) in a rural area. When I was a kid, we didn't buy beef from the grocery store. We bought a cow once year, had it killed, and spent that weekend packing beef for the freezer. We sometimes killed our own chickens. Sometimes we stretched out our yearly hamburger supply by mixing it with venison. It was quite normal for me to come home from school and find a dead, gutted deer hanging in the barn.

It's not unusual, where I live, to see travelers stopping by the side of the road to take pictures of horses and cows and goats. As a kid, I used to make fun of these people. And I always figured they were the kind of people who grew up to become members of PETA.

Now I find out they also grow up to write know-nothing columns for the Chicago Sun-Times.

The entire column boils down to this: "Hey, I know nothing about animals, nothing about food production, nothing about farming, but I like me a good hamburger. Ain't them PETA people funny? Whoohoo!"

In recent years, I have cut back significantly on the amount of meat I eat. I like soy burgers and veggie wraps, because I also like growing vegetables. When I do eat meat, I seek out locally raised organic beef and chicken whenever possible. I avoid fast food restaurants. These are my personal choices. I would never suggest that other people be forced to eat this way, or that fast restaurants be outlawed, or any other such nonsense. I object to the practices of big agribusiness because my freedom is being limited, my ability to choose *not* to eat chemically tainted, hormone-filled, cardboard-tasting crap is being restricted.

That's why I make free-market choices to support organic food, local farmers markets and locally grown produce whenever possible by buying it, and by not buying the products I dislike. In other words, it *is* possible to be a organic and vegetarian friendly without being an eco-fascist, despite Mr. Steinberg may think.

[Rob]

I hear you Corvid. I still eat home/locally grown meat and produce whenever I have the opportunity. The taste is the thing.

What I'm railing against is the idea that there's anything "responsible" about organic/free-range products. They are a luxury product which only exists because the richest nation on earth can afford them. Let's all just acknowledge that fact and move on with our lives.

[cdunlea]

There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian or choosing what, if any, meat you eat. The problem comes in with the moral associations: that eating processed meat, or any meat, is "wrong" or "murder" or anything else. Sure, I think the beef my uncle raises on his family farm is better (and tastier) since he feeds it his grown hay and a better quality of feed, but I have no problem buying a packaged steak at Megamart either.

[s.a.m.]

What I'm railing against is the idea that there's anything "responsible" about organic/free-range products. They are a luxury product which only exists because the richest nation on earth can afford them. Let's all just acknowledge that fact and move on with our lives.

Really? Traveling around central and south America, I found all the subsistence farmers I came across were using organic methods for cultivation and livestock had pretty much run of the property, chickens even walked through the homes unrestricted. These farmers than sold much of their produce and livestock at local farmers markets. Only the large, exporting farms were using modern, chemical methods for exporting.

IMHO, "luxeries" are the chemical applications and hormone/antibiotic injections to produce more and better looking products.

[Critic]

Gee, I thought it was just a comedy piece.
It's hard to satirize PETA because they do it so well to themselves. It's like making fun of a clown.

[Corvid]

s.a.m. wrote:

IMHO, "luxeries" are the chemical applications and hormone/antibiotic injections to produce more and better looking products.

I agree. And they are destructive luxuries as well. Where I live, the indiscriminate use of pesticides and destructive factory-farm practices have severly reduced the local wildlife (such as quail and other wild game) and ruined the rivers, killing many fish. Our rural way of life, our traditions of hunting and fishing and farming, is being destroyed so that people in Chicago can eat cheap hamburgers. And just because I don't feel it's the government's responsiblity to stop that destruction doesn't mean I don't have a right to speak up about how much I dislike it.

[thoreau]

what's next, baiting fundamentalists with gay porn?

Funny you should mention it. Apparently at some point Jerry Falwell was selling videos of gays and lesbians putting on parades and kissing and whatnot. It was something along the lines of "Donate to my cause, and I'll send you an inside look at the gays' sinister plans for our country." The more you sent him, the more soft-core gay video you'd get. All so you could see just how decadent they really were.

I got this info from "Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do" by Peter McWilliams, his book on victimless crimes.

[The Lonewacko Blog]

According to the author, if we didn't kill cows for meat, all those cows wouldn't be needed. Thus, the only thing keeping cows alive is that we're going to kill them.

Huh?

"He?s better off on the dresser. No predators. No fear his crickets won?t show up on time."

It's a literally unnatural situation. Frogs are meant to be eaten by predators and in turn to predate.

"China alone produces some 60 billion pairs a year, and experts fear the entire country will soon be deforested. This never registers with green types"

Green types are certainly concerned with deforestation, and in the unlikely event that chopsticks are to blame for China's dwindling forests, then they should be concerned. Perhaps it doesn't register because, oh I dunno, it's either false or not widely known?

"Chewing luxuriously, I dangle before myself the mental image of a calf in its little stall to see if it upsets my gustatory pleasure. Not a qualm. I?ve spent 17 years in a little box at the Chicago Sun-Times, where I work, and nobody is having a pity party for me."

What an ijit.

[ws]

I have many asian friends who relish cat and dog meat. I think we should popularize these meats and piss PETA even more.

[Swamp Justice]

I think veganism is a truly libertarian philosophy. Animals cannot give consent or contract to use their "goods", thus humans should not take the animals' goods by violent force.

[cdunlea]

Frankly, if people really gave a damn about sanctifying the "natural situation" of living things to the extremes PETA takes it, we would all be living in caves wearing animal skins, hiding from mountain lions and other humans, going out only to hunt for food and gathering herbs to cure deadly diseases, like tooth infections.

After all, that's what humans did for over 97% of the time we have existed on this planet.

[speedwell]

Vegans who are real libertarians (such as myself) would shrug at Mr. Steinberg and tell him that what he puts in his mouth is his own damn business and that maybe instead of making childish taunts he should just grow up and let other people decide what they want to put in their own damn mouths.

[Heather]

Word, speedwell.

Though my take on this is that since human beings have the ability to understand the suffering of other creatures, which other predators don't seem to have, and we understand the idea of "hunting to extinction", we have obligations that other predators don't. Kill your prey quickly cuz a human can grok the idea that "slow death by disembowelment hurts". But then again I come from the "Oh no, kitty!" side of philosophy. I know this is a world where might makes right, but what's so ridiculous about raising and killing our food animals in a compassionate manner?

Of course, this article made me crave a big ol' steak so I know the walls of my glass house don't need cleaning. Good to know!

[Matt]

Amen, Speedwell.

It always kills me when "Libertarians" taunt people for buying or not buying a particular product for ethical reasons. Isnt this a form of capatilistic protest? Yes, PETA and other groups push for regulations that may be unwieldy and therefore rightly done away with, but dont criticize someone who CHOOSES not to eat meat, or buy Farm raised salmon or whatever because of environmental/ethical reasons, they are engaging in the best form of protest, equivalent to changing the channel at the sight of an exposed breast.

[speedwell]

Heather, thanks. Guess I didn't make it clear that I AM a vegan. Actually I agree with you mostly about the compassion toward animals; I consider it to be a mark of maturity and self-esteem to not want to cause needless suffering. But it's not the main reason I stopped eating meat--in fact it was something I thought of once meat was no longer part of my diet.

However, I didn't want to actually say so in the above post because I don't want to be holier-than-thou. People mature at their own rates and that's fine by me.

[Constantine]

Not only is this lame-- PETA is, for the most part, a performance art troupe, and Neil is only engaging in his own little experiment with performance art and getting paid for it -- but Neil is a friggin' wimp. Eating fois gras and veal for a week? Crickets? Sushi? Big friggin' deal. It sounds like he's going through the menu of trendie urban hipster foodies. He derides "organic" methods of farming as "luxuries" by indulging in other sorts of luxuries himself.

This guy ate at McDonald's every day for an entire month as a journalistic experiment. Neil isn't fit to shine this guy's shoes when it comes to food journalism.

[Douglas Fletcher]

Yeah, but Neil is smarter than that guy. The guy that ate at McDonalds felt like he was going to die by the end of the month.

All those memory burgers, it must have been horrible.

[SteveInClearwater]

My Spousal Unit seems annoyed with my plan to stuff whichever of our two cats dies first and use them a door stop.

Oh wait, my brontosaurus burger is burning!!

[Corkie]

Eating organic food may not be as "responsible" as commonly thought. If all farming in N. America were organic, three-fifth's of our forests would have to be cut down to grow the same amount of food grown with conventional methods (since without pesticides, growth hormones, and GM, yields are much lower.) Advances in conventional farming techniques have more than doubled yields in modern times, allowing us to produce more food with a dramatically smaller footprint.

Organic food is also less safe -- the manure from livestock used as organic fertilizer is more likely to carry e-coli.

Corkie

[Don Gorske]

Golden Arches for a whole MONTH?! Piker! Call me when you've had your 10,000th Big Mac, then we'll talk.

[Rick C]

This is not the first I've heard of people doing something just to piss-off the self-righteous PETA types. Go, Neal!

(I had veal parmesan twice for dinner this week. Yum.)

[Brad S]

mmmmmmm...meat tastes good.

[dhex]

meat is deliciously murderous, but this column was stupid.

what's next, baiting fundamentalists with gay porn?

[Shady O'Grady]

I am not a vegan. I think that the more the baby calf suffers, the better the veal will taste. This article, however, is a classic Reason non-article, setting up straw men and assuming motivations of anyone who eats organic food. There is not one iota of information is the rambling piece of journalistic toilet paper, it wasn't even mildly entertaining. Don't you people have editors?

[JayD]

I'm reminded of a great saying:

"It's not that I don't like children...I just can't eat a whole one."

[glenn]

This was a goddamn smart way to expense a decadent meal and get paid in the process. All for a really pointless little column.

[Mo]

I thought this story was going to be about Fozzie the Bear (or did you eat him too? Wokka Wokka Wokka). You should've had some venison too, Neil. I sometimes get dirty looks when I tell people that I like the taste of elk and deer (you're eating Bambi's mom/dad). They usually laugh when I tell them that it's unfair (to myself and animalkind) to decide which animals are ok to eat based on how cute they are instead one should decide by their deliciousness.

[Warren]

"Whether you consider Jumpy fortunate or oppressed is a good barometer of where you come down on the general animal rights debate. "

Not in my case. I'm all for force feeding critters to make them tender and tasty. I have no patience with enviro wackos of any stripe, including the animal rights puddinheads.

But I do have convictions about the responsibilities of pet ownership. The fact that this is a frog your talking about is not lost on me. You kid could rip its legs off for amusement and then only response it would invoke from me is one of nostalgia (oh those carefree summer days of creative amphibicide). But I do think your frog would be better off (and you and your son would be happier with him) if he got a little exercise and honed a few skills. Like I said, it's a frog so I can't be bothered to care one way or the other. I'm more disappointed with my girlfriend's cats (they're lives are barely more active than your frog's, and that's only because the have to scratch after they shit). But again they're cats so I can't be bothered. Now, the things I see people doing with they're dogs can get me upset (keeping big dogs in the house, feeding dogs from the table). I swear I'm going to decapitate the next blockhead that tries to justify such irresponsibility with "oh but he loves it". Of course he likes it asshole, he's just the pet, your kid might like playing in traffic, that don't make it OK. You're the owner, it's your job to be responsible for his health and well being! Indulging your pet's sloth and culinary preference don't cut it. But at least it's better watching some people with their kids.

[Madog]

I usually try to find the most unusual food I can when I go out. Definitely try kangaroo, ostrich, iquana, rattlesnake, or anything else you might not usually think about. You'll be surprised how good they can be.

[some guy]

I am sorry to hear about Neal's lack of success; horse is a fine meal.

"Indulging your pet's sloth and culinary preference don't (sic) cut it." Gee, Warren, what would? A little frog treadmill for him to hop until YOU decide he's had enough? Grubworms until YOU think it's time for him to have a cricket again? I say leave the goddamned frog to his life of Riley.

[Greg Newburn]

I'm no fan of PETA's, but when I see them on the talk show circuits proposing certain standards for how animals should be kept and treated before slaughter, and even in the manner of death, I can't help but think they're onto something. Sure, I know that their agenda is probably much more radical, and that it's just a cover or whatever the latest O'Reilly-esque critique might be. But, to the degree that they keep the debate focused on those issues, I don't think they're that bad.

[s.a.m.]

Wow, where was Neal when the effort by some fringe whacko groups was attempting to free African American slaves back in the day?

What a cheesy article. I always felt that PETA was low, but I see that those directly opposed to PETA's actions sink even lower.

[cdunlea]

Neil is so WRONG. Everybody knows beef tastes vetter than veal, especially charbroiled.

I used to work in a restaurant in leftie Cambridge MA famous for its haute cuisine and its devotion to serving fresh game. Venison was always on the menu, but once a year we had Game Week (which the employees called Zoo Week). Basically, anything higher than insects was eligible to show up on the menu (which changed daily). Beaver, squirrel, llama, ostrich (natch), even leg of lion was there. The only one of these things that actually grossed me out while cooking was making a stock from bear bones--the rib cage looked too human.

[dhex]

what does squirrel taste like?

i've always been curious.

[cdunlea]

That was about 12 years ago, but from memory it was well-cooked (squirrels are rodents, even farmed/fattened ones from specialty farms are pretty dirty), and stringy. I recall we used it as an appetizer served with a berry sauce like a tapas dish.

[joe]

Ooooohhhh, how transgressive! What a rebel! He dared to stand up and say shove it to vegan crowd. Steinberg must have balls that size of watermelons.

You know you're dealing with an honest and knowledgable student of the environmental movement whe he says that "you never hear" enviros speak out against deforestation in China. What a maroon.

[Corvid]

If all farming in N. America were organic, three-fifth's of our forests would have to be cut down to grow the same amount of food grown with conventional methods (since without pesticides, growth hormones, and GM, yields are much lower.)

I don't think that's true. Organic yields are smaller, but not dramatically smaller, than the yields of conventional methods. The real difference is that organic farming is more labor intensive, and therefore not well-suited to large-scale production designed mainly for export.

Organic food is also less safe -- the manure from livestock used as organic fertilizer is more likely to carry e-coli.

Manure is frequently used as fertilizer in conventional farming. It is not an exclusive or defining feature of organic farming.

[Gallers Donna]

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DATE: 05/20/2004 09:40:52
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