"Don't Send Our Sons to the Iraqi Hell"

That's what they are chanting in Turkey, as polls show over two-thirds of the public oppose sending troops into the neighboring country. Thousands hit the streets to protest and police arrested some 60 Kurdish activists.

Still, that stabilizing influence of pre-emptive war should break out any day now.

Comments

[joe]

No problem. We'll just send Shrub to land on one of their aircraft carriers.

[Bush]

THOUSANDS of people taking to the streets in TURKEY?!? I don't think that has ever happened before. I guess it shows we made the wrong move.

[John Hood]

The news about the Turkish protests and survey data is important -- it underlines the kind of slanted propaganda that the average Turk is getting about Iraq. By contrast, Turkish politicians likely don't think that their troops are about to go into an "Iraqi Hell," which is why they decided to do it.

I repeat my prior observation, however: this is unwise. We should accept Turkish help in another way, such as a deployment of troops elsewhere in the world to free up U.S. forces for rotation home or to Iraq.

[matt]

Sounds like the protesters have a point to me. As the opposition MP Haluk Koc said, the US handed Turkey 8.5 billion dollars for their "cooperation." (or in other words, a bribe). To the average Turk, it probably looks like their government is just caving in to American demands (and I guess their right) and they're pissed off about it. I don't blame them...I wouldn't want to go to Iraq either.

[SM]

John Hood wrote,

"We should accept Turkish help in another way, such as a deployment of troops elsewhere in the world"

Which part of the world would you suggest they deploy to ?

[JJ]

Cyprus!

[SM]

I personally vote for Germany !!!

[MB]

Those goddamn Bush-hating liberal Turks!

http://www.instapundit.com/archives/011922.php

[Joe2]

Agence France-Presse....

Read the story very carefully. It sounds like "thousands" is actually only perhaps a bit over one thousand (if that), with that number being spread over a few different protests:

"In Istanbul, protestors chained themselves to the wire fencing of an American high school and shouted "We will not allow our soldiers to be killed" and "We will not be soldiers for the US." Anti-riot police detained six among the 100-strong group, Anatolia news agency reported."

"About 500 people attended a separate demonstration on Taksim central square and a third rally was held outside the offices of the governing Justice and Development Party (AKP) of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan"

"Forty activists, among them the local head of the Democratic People's Party (DEHAP), Turkey's main pro-Kurdish movement, were taken into custody in Mersin, while another 23 people were detained in Ceyhan, party spokesmen told"

and

"In the capital Ankara, dozens of members of trade unions, political parties and civic groups gathered in front of the parliament, where legislators on Tuesday voted for a government motion to dispatch troops to neighboring Iraq."

500 + "100-strong" + "dozens" + 40 + 23 = "thousands" at spacewar.com where coincidentaly the top banner ad is for peace merchandise. What's that song about things that make you go hmm...

[Ken]

You know what's been great about George Bush? The way he's made people care about people. It's true, most people didn't give a crap about Iraqis, Kurds, Turks, East Gibbipians, whatever, until he came along. Now so many people care about so many other people it just warms my heart. "What do the Turk's think"? I never used to care, but if it makes Bush look bad I now care more than anything. They should give Bush a motherfrickin Nobel Prize for making everyone care about each other so much.

[R.C. Dean]

Well, considering that the Turks and the Kurds are no longer killing each other, since we are sitting on their border, I would say that this particular war has definitely stabilized one of the world's hostspots, Jeff.

I note that the Turkish street had no problems with its soldiers dying in cross-border raids to kill Kurds, but now has a big problems putting its soldiers at risk to protect Kurds and other Iraqis. Remind me again why I should care what they think.

[joe]

"Which part of the world would you suggest they deploy to ?"

Greece! Greece! That'd be great!

[Fine]

Joe,

I agree. It's about time those Greek motherfuckers got what's coming to them. What in the hell is wrong with those people? Burying their dead upside-down? That's just odd.

[John Hood]

Which part of the world would you suggest they deploy to?

Afghanistan would be one idea, though it would have to be done carefully. We have troops in the country that could rotate home or to Iraq. There are also ongoing operations in several Middle Eastern and East African countries where a company or two of Turks might come in handy.

[Rick Barton]

I think I've got the answer to "What the Hell are they thinking?" The Bushies must figure if they send in Turkish troops, what ever other moves they make in Iraq will seem brilliant by comparison.

[Anonymous]

Good point, Jeff, it was so much better when Saddam Hussein was free to kill hundreds of thousands, terrorize millions, and support international terrorism. And of course, we all remember that speech when W said the whole project will be smooth and costless. Finally, as Americans (and libertarians) the last thing we'd want to support would be the possible spread of freedom and democracy.

[David Tomlin]

"It sounds like 'thousands' is actually only perhaps a bit over one thousand . . ."

It sounds like no such thing. You are making the baseless assumption that the article is describing every demonstration in Turkey, which is nowhere implied.

FOX (FOX!) confirms the 500 at Taksim Square, and adds "Hundreds of university students also demonstrated outside an Instanbul campus . . ."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,99472,00.html

What difference does it make what is advertised at spacewar.com? The source of the story is Agence France-Presse.

After checking CNN and BBC as well as FOX, I didn't find any confirmation of "thousands" of demonstrators across Turkey, but I found no contradiction of it either.

[Anonymous]

REASON's new motto: Stability Over Freedom.

[Lily Tomlin]

After checking CNN and BBC as well as FOX, I didn't find any confirmation of Santa Claus, tired of stepping in polar bear shit, moving his operation to Turkey, but I found no contradiction of it either.

[David Tomlin]

I'm confused. What evidence is there that there weren't 3000 or more people demonstrating in Turkey on October 8?

[Robert Hutchinson]

Finally, as Americans (and libertarians) the last thing we'd want to support would be the possible spread of freedom and democracy.

Of democracy? You're absolutely right.

I could spread freedom among those imprisoned for non-violent drug offenses by supporting immediate execution of all wardens and prison guards. Now, tell me, should I support that?

[joe 2]

"After checking CNN and BBC as well as FOX, I didn't find any confirmation of "thousands" of demonstrators across Turkey, but I found no contradiction of it either."

Exactly my point: Piss-poor journalism. Though I would cynically suggest it is intentionally misleading (sexed up). To me, 1800 (for example)is not "thousands", its "hundreds" or "several hundred". Saying "thousands" leads readers to have a number in their head ranging from maybe 3000, going up to as much as 20,000, after which you might say "tens of thousands". Surely a journalist knows this. Since the story mentions one protest with 500 people, it would be expected they would mention a different one if it had more than that figure (and state the figure). Perhaps there were 50,000 demonstrators. I see no direct contradiction, but it would be odd to tell where 50 people were protesting and not mention where the other 49,950 were marching.

If you don't care you hosts your news, I'd suggest going to http://www.newsmax.com and don't pay any attention to any of the conservative merchandise for sale or mistakenly think the right-wing advertising suggests the news presented at the site is custom tailored to appeal to conservatives.

[Douglas Fletcher]

"Greek motherfuckers"

I think the popular conception of them is "brotherfuckers," to be exact.

[PRO WAR]

You left-wingers are all for human right and the people of Iraq are being deprived of their human rights. SO that means you are all HIPICRATES!!!

[PRO WAR]

KILL ALL BILL AND HILLARY

LONG LIVE RUSH AND MIKE SAVAGE

[PRO WAR]

KILL BILL AND HILLARY

LONG LIVE RUSH AND MIKE SAVAGE

[Bachrach Amy]

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DATE: 05/21/2004 05:52:54
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