Morning In France

New at Reason: National strikes, piled-up garbage, civil unrest… Could France's bleak situation signal the beginning of a change? Matt Welch goes searching for the French Reagan.

Comments

[Josephine]

Not for nothing, did France insist (no, persist) on having that Chunnel built -- and fast.

[holger viking]

the rest of europe isnot like this. dont' take it out on us. and also don't go overboard either blaming the french. the US certainly does things, especially this administration, to irk and ire the rest of us. this current anti french wave we hear and read about seems like being sore that the france don't support american policy currently. that's not a cool thing because america should have the moral high ground. like with defence of isreal and being antiterror and all such.

of course the french do things to irk us. many EU rules, directives and such throw the political and social union into dissaray. the central bank fiasko with duisenburg and the french guy. the insistance until kofi that the UN Sec Gen. speaks french. there are things like that with the french. yeah sure.

i'm not a fan of the political entity. and don't like the "even our beer is better than yours" (i dont think so) attitude we get in france. however, i hear and see that this kind of thing happens to every european when travelling through out europe. read Bjoern Staerk's blog and you can see that there is a diversity of opinion in europe too. just as in america is. and still there are some pretty good things to see and do in france. you should go. (then tour scandinavia where the real party is!)

~~E "H.V." A

[Croesus]

Vive la France!!!

[PLC]

I don't think I'll bother going to France - my wife has been a couple times and her opinion was that France was filthy. From her discription, Paris sounds like a giant dung heap. With heroine addicts and plenty of muggings.

[Anonymous]

Don't worry about it, Lefty. Nothing is permanent. Nothing.

[Tim Stich]

Paris is grande, you merde heads! Check out the follies at the Lido. Then go down to see where Polanski's "The Tennant" was filmed. Cigarette?

[Anonymous]

ALL YOU FUCKING FRENCHY LOVERS ARE GONNA CRY WHEN I FRY ALL THOSE FRENCHIES.

[mouchon]

Oh oui, Matt, insultes-moi, you know I love it !

My dear Matt,
visiting London (and chatting with people who have worked or studied there) allows one to see the very obvious effects of the Thatcher reforms on English society: the worst transportation, health and education systems in the whole of Europe (inclusive "new" Europe 🙂 )

Thank god, we've saved our education system. Thank god our trains arrive on time and stay on their tracks. Thank god you can go to the doctor and get better and not spend a centime.

Our course I do agree that the number of fonctionnaires is a problem, and that they should work as long as in the private sector, etc.

But your article, Matt, is telling us there is some sort of civil war going on, that the whole country is on the brink of falling appart, and that only a new Thatcher could save.
Come on, admit it, la France est belle. And we don't want no Thatcher !

[Anonymous]

can anybody else wait until summer vacation is over??? gawd. one year of college and all of a sudden we get all this. sheesh

[D.Martin]

RE: "Do they have B-movie actors over there?"

No, but will Jerry Lewis do?

[Sacreblue]

A Frenchman is having his petit dejeuner on the sidewalk (coffee, croissants, bread, butter and jam) when an American, chewing gum, sits down next to him.

The Frenchman ignores the American who, nevertheless, starts a conversation.

American: "You French folk eat the whole bread?"

Frenchman (in a bad mood): "Of course."

American: (after blowing a huge bubble) "We don't. In the United States, we only eat what is inside. The crusts we collect in a container, recycle it, transform them into croissants and sell them to France." (The American has a sarcastic smirk on his face.)

The Frenchman listens in silence.

The American insists: "D'ya eat jelly with the bread?"

Frenchman: "Of course."

American: (cracking his gum between his teeth and chuckling) "We don't. In the States we eat fresh fruit for breakfast. Then we put all the peels, seeds and leftovers in containers, recycle them, transform them into jam and sell the jam to France."

The Frenchman then asks: "And what do you do with condoms once you've used them?"

American: "Why, we throw them away, of course."

Frenchman: "We don't. In France, we put them in a container, recycle them, melt them down into chewing gum and sell it to America."

[Croesus]

These posts are perfect examples of the national chauvinism bordering on racism that I wrote of. BTW, anyone who thinks that anti-French jokes, insults, and the like in the US started in 2002 isn't paying attention.

[Anonymous]

but Croesus fails to mention that it occurs just as much among the french. clearly he is only spreading the meme common among the french that Americans are racists.

[Croesus]

Anon. Poster @ 05:09,

Hmm, I never wrote that Americans are racists; I did write that this attitude is a kin to racism. But thankyou for your dissembling. 🙂

[Chinese Communist Party]

We would like to thank the US for turning a blind eye to Tiananmen!

[Somoza]

Thankyou USA! I appreciated your support over the years!

[Mubarak]

What would we do without US military aid? Thankyou so much America! You gave us the means to crackdown on liberal critics of my region and ban "The Matrix Reloaded!"

[Anonymous]

"YOU FUCKERS. WE'RE GONNA FUCKING RAPE YOU." --THE MATRIX: PRELOADED

[Chi-Muba-Somoza]

Thank you, USA, for being the greatest POLICEMAN OF THE WORLD!

(Glad WE don't have to pay for it.)

[Sacreblue]

Croesus, you're so observant! (Not!)

You see only anti-French jokes, insults, and the like. You're so blinded by your French heritage that you don't see the anti-American jokes, insults, and the like.

Is that why you're not paying attention?

[Anonymous]

Those postings can't possibly be by pauvre petit croesus - he would never present himself as such a parody of your stereotypical anti-american french nationalist.

[Croesus]

Sacreblue,

Have ever written what you've accused me of? No. Next time, try honesty.

[Croesus]

Anon Poster @ 5:36,

No, its likely you who are making the posts. Which is likely why you stay anonymous.

[Anonymous]

Stop using Croesus' name to post! Croesus can calmly criticize both the US and France. He would never turn into Joan of Arc in drag shrilly defending the indefensible just because someone dared to say something about his dear country. He can't be that ignorant about his own country yet full of distorted "facts" about the US like many of his country-"men."
Hell, he even knows that in France they have complete LIBERTY OF CRYPTOGRAPHY (Although it's still illegal to insult the President so be carefull)

[david f]

hey Croesus,

i've noticed "simpsons level" barbs over the years. but i really haven't noticed this anti french sentiment until recently. and you get yer francophiles, too. but either way, those who criticize should get over there and check it out before bitching. a lot of the criticisms of france i've heard resemble potential criticisms of new york, too. except there's more freedom in france now. can we swap HRC for anyone? anyone??

cheers and good weekend!
drf

imagine if this were about neocons instead of the french. then there'd be cries of "antisemitism" all over the place... (couldn't resist, ha ha)

[Anonymous]

David always assumes everyone is as ignorant as he is.
But he is cheerful.

[david f]

that's right. det har Du ret, din skid. jeg er skide tr?t af mennesker som Dig, der kommer her og fors?mer vores lille forum. men jeg antager, at Du er hverken glad eller klog. Du er ikke engang clever, skiderik. Du er bar en lille vatpik, der fors?ger at pisse over alt...

hau ab und schlei Di, scheisskerl. Du kannst mich mal. Du Feigling, und ist doch klar, warum Du Anonym bleibst. Weil a Feigling bist. Du bist schwach und ein Vollkornstrottel. Du scheiss Jogl und Klachl.

drf

[Croesus]

Anon Poster,

When you come out of the shadows, I'll begin to take you seriously. 🙂

[Croesus]

drf,

You can have le Pen for HRC. 🙂

[Anonymous]

David must be quite young if thinks that anyone is impressed by his knowing another language. Get over it, most of us are multilingual where I'm from.
As for posting anonymously, I don't really think it helps anyone to know me better if I stick some name up there.

cheers!
your faithful coward

[david f]

wow. most of you are bilingual where you're from. congrats. and which carnival do you work for (assuming from your abilities to guess my age)? would you freak out austin powers, too?

i'll second what our good friend Croesus said. in the meantime, Faithful (may i call you that, or would you prefer "Mr. Coward"), throw in a name or something that identifies you consistently, and we'll have some fun here. chatting and kicking around ideas.

until then.
drf

[Bill]

Hey, HEY! The name of this website is REASON.COM. Since some of you were obviously looking for a site named IRRATIONALITY.COM I must point out, you're at the wrong place.

[Croesus]

Wasn't Thatcher booted because of a new tax? And wasn't her primary claim to popularity the Falklands War?

[Timetraveller]

Greetings from the year 2020. Yes, France has turned out well. I am proud to say that our Islamic State is the most pure of all the States of the United German-Franco Empire! All of our beutiful women are covered by scarves and we now boast 263 atomic missles that are aimed at the hated American dogs! It is a wonderful place to live -- our French forces have restored Islamic rule to Iraq and are now preparing to launch an offenisve on the infidels in India. Meanwhile our standard of living is now equal to Central America! Truely the best of times! Vive la France!!! Allah is great!

[bardp]

Looking for a French Reagan? Do they have B-movie actors over there?

[Croesus]

mouchon,

There is some sort of psychosis in the US that desires the downfall of France; I can't say what drives it, but the national chauvanism in this area can be a kin to racism at times.

[Croesus]

bardp,

Reagan at one time was a prime actor; it was later in his career that he became a B-movie actor. After that he started working for GE, and that's where he honed his speaking skills and ideas - before GE captive audiences.

[Jough]

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/facility/osiraq.htm

This is the France I know and love...

[david f]

good morning and happy friday--

hey croesus -- while i think your statement is a bit strong, and i don't think for a minute that the average person who walks on by on Deming St. knows thing one about france in the larger sense. i think you're on to something that's more of a recent trend:

this francophobic attitude to me seems like the conservative sheep bleating and following along with georgie, rummie, wolfie, panties (damn, what a giveaway)...

people will have positive and negative experiences. sure, la france, c'est belle, mais il y a plus d'autre pays, qui sont belles aussi -- or something like that. it's been quite a while (what i butchered was that there are many other countries that also are beautiful, too) -- and all are worth the visit.

and the point is that these comments, ruminations, etc. are simply the flip side of the same coin of all the america bashing (based on TV or michael moore) i experienced in my 5+ years in europe (and no, i speak danish without discernable accent, so i wasn't picked out as "an american"). damn, read the blogs from over there, and the steady drumbbeat of anti- americanism is huge. and both suck because they're based on ignorance.

i didn't like that crap there, i don't like this krap now. how many here who go out and bash the french have had anything beyond the cab driver or idiot waiter? no? thought so. now go to new york and experience the same thing.

i'm definitely not a francophile or a europhile. i'm 100% opposed to the eu on Libertarian grounds, but this ignorance drives me up the fucking wall.

cheers and happy friday (sorry for starting out on a bummer note),
drf

[Anonymous]

American-bashing has played a central role in French politics and society for at least the last 50 years. It's only in the last year or so that Americans have started bashing back, yet the French have the "gall" to get all hysterical about chauvinism, nationalism, etc. Please - let's just be thankful that most Americans haven't been paying attention to the portrayal of America by French media and politicians over the years, otherwise this nastiness would have started long ago.
Paranoid conspiracy theories - like recent books about 9/11 - and the required showing of Bowling for Columbine (without out any explanation of its lies and distortions) in French schools, it's all part of the same need to create an obsession re: America so France never has to look in the mirror.
The French tend to know a lot about Vietnam, not much about Algeria. A lot about the Patriotic Act, not much about the 500 Algerian protesters floating in the Seine from a time when France felt threatened by terrorism & that France has always more or less functioned under a Patriot Act with seemingly no interest into what their secret police are up to. A lot about US racism, not much about France's - except denials and you know those synagogues burn so easy. A lot about slavery in US, not much about the fact that the French decided - after much internal debate - that slavery within the hexagon would lead to social unrest and so they should participate and profit from the slave trade without having it take place on their soil & how they supported the Confederacy - though luckily for the Union they were distracted by Mexican resistance to Napoleon III's attempts to set up shop there. They "know" all about how abortion is illegal in the US, but not that the laws are much more permissive in many US states than in France where French girls have to trek to Spain to get abortions.
As Revel says, French politics would collapse if the US failed to exist - hatred of US is what holds them all together.

[mugabe]

Vive La France!

[castro]

Vive La France!

[Arafat]

Viva La Francia!

[Sadaam]

Je t'aime ma patrie, ma France

[Hungry African Guy]

Hey Pierre, I know you don't like that genetically modified food, but can't I have just a bite.

[Sweating African Guy]

Jean-Francois - Yeah, DDT sucks for rats, but can't you spray a bit over here.

[greenpeace hippy]

I wish the US was more pacifist like the French governm....OH SHIT WHAT'S THAT! BOOM#^$!**!!!!!

[Liberian dude]

We need US to help us! (that French SWAT team only picks up the white guys..what about us?)

[Racist Arab Girl]

I hate being gang raped in the stairwell. Sorry if that sounds racist Mr. French Elite.

[French Jew]

my thoughts are controlled by Volfovitz
my thoughts are controlled by Volfovitz
my thoughts are controlled by Volfovitz
I only imagine seeing the Protocal of the Elders on sale at Lutte Ouvrier & FN meetings

[EASTERN EUROPEAN]

Sorry, Mr. Chirac, I won't speak out of turn again.

[Lefty]

There will be over 600 people killed in Los Angeles alone this year, every state is broke, the feds just jumped our national debt to the highest in history and you're talking about garbage in Paris. How's about we take care of our own back yard before we start solving other contry's problems?

[Geotech]

When my dad was a Merchant Marine back in the 60's, he found that the French in Paris bars ALWAYS pestered him simply for being American. They'd piss and moan about how he didn't know what it was like to be occupied by a foreign power and crap like that. And then, just because he was an angry, confrontational bastard (and still is), he'd let them know that he was also from Texas. Their heads really spun then.

Another funny one. My maternal great-grandmother was half-French, half-German. When my grandmother got married, my gr-grandmother asked my grandfather if he was Jewish. He of course, told her yes. She was very rude to him after that. Then she found out he was actually just an Anglo-Irish Ohio farmboy, so she no longer had a reason to hate him, which really irked her.

[Scheller Nicole]

EMAIL: [e-mail]
IP: 62.213.67.122
URL: http://psybnc-account.1st-host.org
DATE: 01/20/2004 08:41:32
The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius.

[Mezey Jennifer]

EMAIL: [e-mail]
IP: 217.96.219.200
URL: http://preteen-sex.info
DATE: 05/20/2004 06:36:53
Unusual ideas can make enemies.