Flag Day Preparations

Here we go again. Yesterday, the House approved this amendment to the constitution: "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States." The vote was 300-125.

It says here that Senate approval isn't likely.

This old column on the topic is as valid as ever.

Comments

[Jim N]

Good call, James!

[thoreau]

James-

Please, keep your mouth shut! They might get ideas!

[Croesus]

Everyone going to put out their flags for the D-Day anniversary (June 6)?

[david f]

actually we will, but the big bash will be next year. (60 years)

i was in europe for the 50th, and got to hear a whole bunch of bullshit how the marshall plan was "economic cultural imperialism" and how disappointed many eurotypes were that the us didn't fold up and go away in 1989, too. (my argument that the marshall plan hindered growth and was a macrocosm for being against subsidies, protectionism, welfare, etc. fell on deaf ears. sigh)

and last year we thought of the lady lex getting sunk June 4, 1942...

onwards,
drf

[Jim Walsh]

THE FIRST AMENDMENT*

*void where prohibited by law...

[Jay D]

I saw this story last night and was hoping there would be a blog on it this morning. This is just another example of how our government doesn't have the slightest idea what freedom is. It is this very type of legislation that renders our national symbol more and more meaningless.

I wonder if this would impact the use of "American Flag Zig-Zags".

[joe]

It's bad enough to limit speech that has political content. This is limiting speech BECAUSE of its political content.

[david f]

over memorial day weekend we were visiting people at a lake in southern michigan. on this lake, people proudly flew flags of their preceived roots (since many of these people couldn't pick out ireland, italy, or greece on a map, we doubt if they actually know anything about those countries except for what they see on, for example, "the godfather") over their domains.

the us is one of the few countries in the world where flying other flags is legal. that right, the right to protest (even in such insulting, jackass ways as burning a flag) are some of the things, not for protection of government sponsored symbols, is why the vets deserve our gratitude and respect. living in denmark, where their flag is considered to be the first national flag in the western world, and the danes fly it at every possibility (for example pin them on christmas trees, birthday cakes -- it's a party flag!!), i saw how important it is to be able to protest national symbols. if we protect our symbols the same way the euroweenies do, we're just taking another step to be like them. our liberty (fast disappearing) is a major point of differentiation between us and them.

now, for people who are so disillusioned that they would want to burn a flag, why are you still in this country? even though you should have that right to protest peacefully, if you burn a flag, you're not protected from the verbal opinions or contempt of the rest of us.

dr. johnson, we have a whole bunch of (world ignorant) scoundrels here...

drf

[Jay D]

Well said, David!

[Croesus]

david f,

So, in other words, you're a "euroweenie" if you protect your national flag by some legal means, but get the hell out of the US if you actually excercise your free speech rights by burning a flag?

Someone has to explain to me again why burning a flag is so scandalous, and why nationalism (a collectivist ideology if there ever was one) still has such deep roots.

BTW, david f, recall that Dr. Johnson was keen on slamming the revolutionaries for wanting liberty for themselves, while keeping others in chains (slaves that is).

[david f]

hey Croesus!

good call on dr. johnson there! 🙂

and no, the euroweenies comment is for those who jump at every frickin cause to be rampant in nationalism. that euro song contest, watching collective sporting events, like the olympics, stuff like that. jeez. that "hand of god" play. that kinda stuff. how everything contains a component of nationalism and the Bad Religion "them and us" concept.

and at no time would i say that people should get the fuck out of america. well, maybe a few times, but not generally like that. but if someone is resorting to such a provocative statement, it would be interesting to hear why that form of protest is chosen, and why not try living somewhere else (even just to get a different perspective).

so, maybe someone would protest that way. they should be allowed, of course. they're not protected from our verbal comments or contempt. and asking that question is my way in that posting of showing contempt. of course, for those who wish to protect the flag (tom delay etc) i have other statements of contempt for them...

so it's not a "you may but get the fuck out if you do at all" either-or. sorry if it was read that way. it should be a "okay you're doing this. i don't like it, but it's a protest"...

cheers!
drf

[The Mountain Goat]

I'll be flying my flag proudly. Of course, my flag reads "Don't tread on me."

First thing we should do is round up those VFW geezers. In my area, they collect old flags and burn them. So what if that is the proper protocol for a flag that is ripped or has touched the ground? Its the same act, and congress wants to ban the act.

Perhaps congress should instead trademark the flag, and then charge anyone who sells flags with trademark infringement. When flags are outlawed, only government will have flags. Then when some yahoo burns a flag, the feds can get a conviction for destruction of government property, arson, vandalism, and burning outdoors without a permit.

[Croesus]

The Mountain Goat,

National flags, crests, symbols, etc. cannot be trademark according to the Lantham Act (1947) - basically the modern TM act. GATT says the same thing. The US doesn't want some other country granting TM to the US flag, or their own flag, and vice versa.

[david f]

hey Mr. Goat!

gadsen flag -- very cool. my good friend flies one proudly on his front porch in belmont, Mass. (he also has a concealed-carry permit)...

here's one -- we could all wrap the flags in plastic and make some sort of environmental martyr statement about it... then, the lefties would be for banning burning, because of global warming and all! heh heh heh.

very nice.

drf

[Croesus]

I perfer the Conch Republic's flag myself. 🙂 Fits in with my status as a Epicurean. 🙂

[david f]

🙂

[Heather]

people who are so disillusioned that they would want to burn a flag, why are you still in this country?

To avoid being victimized by US foriegn policy. Geez!

[David 2]

I still need to fix the page up a bit, but you may want to check this article out:

http://davidm2.home.mindspring.com/archive/99bh24.htm

[david f]

hey David M 2 -

to be brutally honest, nice commentary. and the most important point, "for crepes sake, right lane slow, left lane fast" is at the bottom of the page!

drive up the edens and you'll see those with left lane fever to the extreme!

Heather,

nice! we can see the violence inherent in the system (a python paraphrase/quote for every situation)

cheers all!
drf

[thoreau]

I don't plan to ever burn the flag, unless they ban flag-burning. Then I'll burn it, along with a copy of the new amendment. And when they drag me to jail I'll shout "Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"

And when I get out of prison I'll move to an anarcho-syndicate commune.... 😉

[Brian]

I'm with you Thoreau...it's never occurred to me to burn the flag, but now I kind of feel like standing in the Capitol rotunda and setting one ablaze. With a cigarette.

[James Merritt]

Amazing that the congress critters think it is necessary to have a constitutional amendment to prohibit flag desecration, but not cultivation, distribution, or possession of hemp and pot. Using the latter experience as a template, all the congress has to do is pass a law that establishes traffic in flags or us-flag-design items as interstate commerce, by definition, whether or not it occurs entirely within the boundaries of a given State. Then, the commerce clause's regulatory power can be used to prohibit anything to do with flag production, distribution, or use. No awkward or problematic constitutional amendment needed!

[The Mountain Goat]

Or how about:

The U.S. Constitution ? 1789
All rights reserved... Not valid in all places. Subject to change without notice. Good for a limited time only.

[3rdear]

More like...

THE FIRST AMENDMENT*

* void where prohibited by the USA Patriot Act.

and the following is a correction on behalf of Mr. Goat.

The U.S. Constitution ? 1787...

[3rdear]

Well I guess the actual year is debatable since the ratification process started in 1787 and the government apparently did not fully begin operating under it until 1791 after all the states had successfully ratified and the federales confirmed it.