Bust out the Wet Noodle

As expected, the national NOW folks weren't too happy with their Morris County, New Jersey chapter president's comments regarding the Peterson case.

Comments

[Steve]

Just shows how much political hay there is to make out of this one.

[geophile]

Theoretically, it is possible for someone to be charged with the murder of a fetus that the mother had planned to abort anyway. Some might see this possibility as a glaring example of inconsistency in the argument of a pro-fetal-murder-statute and pro-coice advocate. But isn't all about choice, after all? A woman is allowed to decide not just the fate of her fetus, but the hour of its reckoning as well. The two beliefs need not be mutually exclusive.

To me, this is not an issue with the Peterson case. (I admit that I blanched slightly, for some reason, when that woman in the article referred to the unborn as the "Peterson Fetus.") Whether or not an unborn child was involved here, an adult woman was still murdered. If the death penalty is on the table at all, it should be for the primary murder of Laci Rocha, not simply applied due to "special circumstances" or whatever they're calling it now.

On a slightly related note, one thing that really bothers me is when we hear of some 15 year old girl giving birth in the school gym locker room to a baby (after informing no one of the pregnancy) that is inevitably found dead. Her lawyer tells her to say it was stillborn, she cries on the stand, and everyone goes home filled with understanding for her plight, and the case is sealed. And through all of this, we live in a society in which people who abuse their dogs are considered criminals. Where are the dessicated shrews from NOW on this one?

[Brad S]

New motto for NOW:

"NOW - We've Turned Baby-killing Into a Sacrament!"

[Harry Tuttle]

Geophile,

I suppose NOW's viewpoint would be that the 15 year old is just exercising her right to control her body. Personally, one of the reasons why I'm pro-choice is that I believe such amatuer abortions would happen more frequently if the procedure were illegal. Just as the war on drugs and prohibition demonstrate, making something illegal doesn't keep it from happening. It just moves further into the shadows.
Oh, and Geo, stop dogging yer dogs!

[Jim N]

I guess that NOW has joined the American Taliban Right Wing Christian Theodicy. Right guys?

Right?

[Steve]

Jim? Need a valium today?

[geophile]

Well Steve and Jim N, according to the Taliban themselves, burkas and beatings are a sign of respect to women. If NOW can believe that having Clinton respected women, why not extend the same brand of oblivious sunshine to the Talibanners?

[Brad S]

geophile - the way the Taliban treat women is not really a big women's issue. Burkas, beatings, not being able to own property, etc etc etc. That's not really a big deal. What is a big women's issue, though, is that the Augusta National Golf Club does not have any female members. What an outrage!!!

[Lonewacko]

Don't most pro-life arguments exclude cases such as rape, incest, mother's life endangered and perhaps underage pregnancies? I'm honestly not sure about the latter exception, but that would seem to rule out cases like the 15-year-old above.

[Jim N]

Steve, I figured some people would misunderstand my comment, but I didn't think you'd be one of them since you've been reading my posts for a few months now. Go here, read the comments, then read my above comment again. Then think "Ah! He's using irony! I get it."

The discussion in this thread is one of those simultaneously amusing and sad exhibitions. "A woman is allowed to decide not just the fate of her fetus, but the hour of its reckoning as well." No. If a fetus is a living human person with rights then it is not for the mother to decide to end that life. If it is not, then there is no point in talking about charging Scott Peterson with two homicides. Destruction of property -- maybe. Perhaps practicing medicine without a license, but no murder.

Sorry, no hair-splitting on this one.

[Xrlq]

As I recently blogged on the topic myself, opposition to fetal homicide laws strikes me as nothing more than mindless consistency-for-consistency's sake. Contrary to NOW's empty slogans, abortion is not legal because 100% of the population is 100% convinced that fetuses are 0% human and should have no rights at all against anybody. Rather, legal abortion is a necessarily messy compromise that arises from an ugly dilemma, in which society is forced to choose between either respecting the right of a pregnant woman to control her own body, or respecting the life of a developing (potential) human being, but not both.

This dilemma only arises, however, when the woman wants to kill her fetus. Any other time, e.g., during a wanted pregnancy, her interest in her personal freedom and the fetus's interest in life are aligned, and society has neither the need nor any good reason to pick and choose between the two.

Indeed, the very notion that it can never be legal for X to kill Y but illegal (and therefore murder) for Z to do so is inherently flawed, even in non-abortion contexts. An inmate on death row may be hours away from his lawful execution, but it would still be murder if another inmate bumped him off in the meantime.

[Tim Stich]

Back in the 90s I painted a pop-art style depiction of a woman being forced to bear a rapist's child by a faceless policeman, a doctor, and two smiling parents and a priest. It was displayed at a "bad art" exhibit in Portland, Oregon years ago. Chuck Palahniuk liked it I think. His exhibit at the show was next to mine I heard. If you are in Portland, ask Cybelvis for a private showing of the work at her house.

[Steve]

Sorry Jim. Sometimes that grounder takes a bad hop. E-5.

[geophile]

Not being pro-life, I can't say how common it is, but I am aware of those who are against abortion even in cases of rape. Incest may be a different story, but I've never heard of pro-lifers OK-ing abortion just because the mother is a teen.

[Oxley Stephanie]

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DATE: 01/20/2004 07:44:24
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