"John McCain left both his first wife and Mitt Romney for beauty queens"

Stop reading if you've already heard these, but I found this Harper's-style list of Palin/McCain zingers at a random political listserv on Yahoo!:

45: number of months Sarah Palin has been pregnant
20: number of months Sarah Palin has been governor

9,000: population of Wasilla, AK the town of which Palin was mayor                      15,000: the number of people at the rally announcing her nomination as VP

7: number of people in the Palin family
7: number of houses John and Cindy McCain own

72: years that John McCain has been alive
49: years that Alaska has been a state

1: number of times McCain and Palin had met before today
20 million: the number of dollars that the city of Wasilla was left in
debt when Palin's term as mayor ended

When John McCain started his campaign, Sarah Palin was not yet governor of Alaska.

John McCain left both his first wife and Mitt Romney for beauty queens.

A mystery grand prize goes to the commenter who writes the best addition to the list.

Comments

TWC-Shilling for NoStar (still) | August 30, 2008, 3:37pm | #

John McCain left both his first wife and Mitt Romney for beauty queens.


Going to be tough to do better than that, Mike.

Elemenope | August 30, 2008, 3:42pm | #

1: Number of children Palin has that will be deployed to Iraq.

1: Number of weeks, total, that she has thought about the Iraq War.

Adamness | August 30, 2008, 3:54pm | #

18 months: The amount of time Sarah Palin has had relevant experience.

18 months: The amount of time John McCain has left to live.

(Ok that might prove untrue, but you never know. He's old is all I'm saying.)

PP | August 30, 2008, 3:55pm | #

Am I the only one who thinks this post is in bad taste? I'd rather read a comparison Palin-Biden in spending, role of the government, free-trade, 2nd amendment, etc. etc.

But that's just me...

JB | August 30, 2008, 3:56pm | #

1: Executive of border state.

0: Obama's foreign policy experience consists of giving a speech in Berlin.

JB | August 30, 2008, 3:57pm | #

1: Number of Stalinist front organizations giving away a million Obama buttons this week.

Mike Riggs | August 30, 2008, 3:58pm | #

Sheesh, PP, there's plenty of thoughtful stuff at the convention blog. Take a load off and laugh a little.

Elemenope | August 30, 2008, 4:00pm | #

Obama's foreign policy experience consists of giving a speech in Berlin.

Because, clearly, working on nuclear non-proliferation doesn't count, nor apparently does taking a public and principled position on a foreign war.

alan | August 30, 2008, 4:07pm | #

2 for the price of 1: how many current and former
Vice Presidential contenders (Biden and Cheney) lobbyist Stephen Payne can get you access to for a mere few hundred thousand dollars 'donated' to the Bush Library.

Zubon | August 30, 2008, 4:08pm | #

I might be able to beat some of those, but all of them? I'm not that funny.

niXE | August 30, 2008, 4:09pm | #

1000000000000000000: Called out Sen Ted Stevens (R-AK) to "come clean" about financial dealings that are under fed investigation; Exposed corruption within own party; Nixed the bridge to nowhere; Replaced entire Board of Agriculture and Conservation because of conflict of interest; Resigned in protest from position of Ethics Commissioner of Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission in order to expose legal violations and conflicts of interest of Alaska Republican leaders, including the former state Attorney General and the State GOP Chairman (who was also an Oil & Gas Commissioner), who was doing work for the party on public time and supplying a lobbyist with a sensitive e-mail

0: Wife's Employer received $1,000,000.00 federal earmark, requested by husband, after her promotion

tim | August 30, 2008, 4:16pm | #

Obama's foreign policy experience consists of giving a speech in Berlin.

1 Number of times Bush traveled to Europe before becoming president

Mike Laursen | August 30, 2008, 4:22pm | #

Called out Sen Ted Stevens (R-AK) to "come clean" about financial dealings that are under fed investigation; Exposed corruption within own party; Nixed the bridge to nowhere;...

That's what I wonder about Palin. It looks like she might actually take ethics and all that stuff seriously. If so, is she going to be able to keep her mouth shut about all the shit she sees McCain pulling?

Andy Craig | August 30, 2008, 4:25pm | #

0: How much "experience" actually matters

0: Amount of substantive policy debate we have seen or will see between Obama and McCain

0: Chance that someone who should become President, will

David | August 30, 2008, 4:28pm | #

Palin has a secretary named McCain, and McCain had a secretary named Palin!

The Angry Optimist | August 30, 2008, 4:29pm | #

I can't decide if Andy Craig or David is the winner here.

Anti-Globalism | August 30, 2008, 4:30pm | #

38 million: number of people chasing a dream
3.8 million: number of ejaculations to the recent promotional photos of Palin

joe | August 30, 2008, 4:37pm | #

3: Number of Tylenol PMs JB needs to get to sleep after reading the campaign news on an average day in 2008.

joe | August 30, 2008, 4:40pm | #

Seriously, McCain trolls, not one of you could actually come up with something that can be counted? So you "score" stuff?

"0: Obama sux lolz!"

That's pathetic.

Episiarch | August 30, 2008, 4:42pm | #

5 1/2: the number of years John McCain spent as a POW

4 1/2: the number of children Sarah Palin has

Maxime Rainville | August 30, 2008, 4:48pm | #

634: Number of days Sarah Palin had been Governor when John McCain name her as his running mate.
767: Number of days Barack Obama had been a US Senator when he declared his intention to run for President.

* Obama was sworn in on January 4, 2005.
* Palin was sworn in on December 4, 2006.
* Obama declared on February 10, 2007.

Jonathan Hohensee | August 30, 2008, 4:53pm | #

5 1/2: the number of years John McCain spent as a POW

4 1/2: the number of children Sarah Palin has

I literally yelled "OH LORD!" reading that one

Elemenope | August 30, 2008, 5:01pm | #

Epi --

Ouch!

MacK | August 30, 2008, 5:09pm | #

I'm voting for Andy Craig's answers.

0: How much "experience" actually matters

0: Amount of substantive policy debate we have seen or will see between Obama and McCain

0: Chance that someone who should become President, will

The last 0: takes it over the top.

TUC | August 30, 2008, 5:16pm | #

5: Number of times in the last 20 years Palin has been in the birthing department of a hospital.

5: Number of times in the last 20 years Biden has been in the hair transplant department of a plastic surgery center.

jbf | August 30, 2008, 5:17pm | #

2: Palin's years of executive experience

0: Cumulative executive experience of McCain, Obama, Biden, and, for the heck of it, let's throw in Hillary.

0: the amount of good any of these jokers is going to do for the country

1: the number of personally motivated abuses of power whose details I can remember off of the top of my head being connected to each candidate on the republican ticket. (Tom Gosinski and Mike Wooten, though I don't have any sympathy for Wooten, and think this was a case of inappropriate action to combat a larger corruption)

TUC | August 30, 2008, 5:17pm | #

1: Number of pussies on the Republican ticket.

2: Number of pussies on the Democratic ticket

TUC | August 30, 2008, 5:20pm | #

1: Number of pussies on the Republican ticket.

2: Number of pussies on the Democratic ticket

1: Number of pussies on MSNBC between 8 and 10. (2 if you are forced to count Maddow)

John-David | August 30, 2008, 5:22pm | #

290 - Votes Barack Obama has missed in the current Congressional session.

407 - Votes McCain has missed in the same session.

69 - Position I'd like to get Governor Palin in.

TUC | August 30, 2008, 5:23pm | #

1: Number of MILFs John Edwards would "like to tag" on the Republican ticket

1: Number of GILFs Olberman would like to tag on the Democrat ticket

B | August 30, 2008, 5:29pm | #

2: Number of Vice Presidential candidates who have more experience than Barack Obama.

B | August 30, 2008, 5:31pm | #

" nor apparently does taking a public and principled position on a foreign war."

So I guess Medea Benjamin of Code Pink is qualified to be Secretary of State. Give me a fucking break.

Jerry | August 30, 2008, 5:33pm | #

How about a list for Democrats?
14,000: number of times Barack Obama mentioned Hope and Change in the past two years.
14: number of times Eliot Spitzer visited Hope and Change in the past two years.

mantooth | August 30, 2008, 5:38pm | #

0: The amount of influence a bunch of shut-ins commenting on a libertarian blog will have on the election.

dead_elvis | August 30, 2008, 5:38pm | #

100: percentage of my guts with which I can't stand lists like that that think they are clever but don't actually mean anything.

B | August 30, 2008, 5:38pm | #

12: Number of Months Obama was wrong about the surge.
5: Number of minutes it took him to remove his position on the surge from his website when he realized it was doing damage to his campaign

B | August 30, 2008, 5:40pm | #

"Seriously, McCain trolls, not one of you could actually come up with something that can be counted? So you "score" stuff?"

Christ allmighty, you are a total fucking idiot. You are the Keith Olbermann of this website.

B | August 30, 2008, 5:43pm | #

57: The number of states Obama thinks are in the United States of America.

B | August 30, 2008, 5:45pm | #

300-400:Number of times Obama said he was going to vote against FISA
0: Actual number of times the spineless piece of shit voted against it.

Jacob | August 30, 2008, 5:59pm | #

John-David FTW

Jack | August 30, 2008, 7:01pm | #

Episiarch wrote: "5 1/2: the number of years John McCain spent as a POW; 4 1/2: the number of children Sarah Palin has"

In the words of Kevin Pereira on "Attack of the Show" -- "Too soon, too soon."

But still funny in a nasty kind of way.

Lefiti | August 30, 2008, 7:23pm | #

$221,100 -- the yearly salary Sarah Palin can hope to make as vice president

$221 -- McCain's montly Viagra bill

Da Party Poopa | August 30, 2008, 7:35pm | #

45: number of months Sarah Palin has been pregnant

Correction, blowhards! Palin's 5th baby was born a month early, so she was pregnant 44 months! WONK! However, if you believe the rumors swirling that Trig, the 5th baby, was not actually borne by Sarah but by daugter Bristol, then it would only be 36 months.

FloridaMoose | August 30, 2008, 8:11pm | #

2 - number of boobs on the GOP ticket

2 - number of boobs on the democratic tickt

FloridaMoose | August 30, 2008, 8:21pm | #

1 - number of infant diapers Palin is currently changing

1 - number of adult diapers Palin will be changing as McCain's VP

Hi, Jack! | August 30, 2008, 8:39pm | #

-5: Number of Daily Brickbats I've been enjoying since August 25.

Jim Bob | August 30, 2008, 9:15pm | #

Over 9000: the level of a certain commenter's man-crush on Obama (seriously, you got pissed off in this thread? When Obama is mentioned you lose all sense of perspective, you know that?)

da gauntlet | August 30, 2008, 9:18pm | #

0: number of friday funnies that have lived up to their name.

chris | August 30, 2008, 9:46pm | #

Jim Bob: Over 9000: the level of a certain commenter's man-crush on Obama

OVER 9000?!?! Whaaa--???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00_iYiqzwlc&feature=related

Syd | August 30, 2008, 9:49pm | #

1) Number of Alaskan politicians many Americans can name today.

1) Number of Delawarian politicians many Americans can name today.

Jim Bob | August 30, 2008, 9:57pm | #

"Construct Additional Pylons" can still make my head explode. LOL @ that video, though.

smacky | August 30, 2008, 9:58pm | #

0: the number of mystery grand prizes that are going to be awarded to a commenter who writes the best addition to the list. It's a hoax, I suggest we all leave!


...did I win?

bromo98 | August 30, 2008, 10:31pm | #

Since I'm pretty much not going to top any of these - I'm just going to vote for the one that made me laugh the hardest.

Anti-Globalism | August 30, 2008, 4:30pm | #

38 million: number of people chasing a dream
3.8 million: number of ejaculations to the recent promotional photos of Palin

Lefiti | August 30, 2008, 11:07pm | #

72 McCain's age according to his birth certificate

6,000 the earth's age according to Sarah Palin as a fundamentalist Christian

74 the avergare IQ of fundamentalist Christians

More than 50% - the chance of Sarah palin eventually becoming president

Mike | August 30, 2008, 11:09pm | #

1: Members of the 2008 GOP ticket with a developmentally disabled child

1: Members of the 1988 GOP ticket with a developmentally disabled child

John-David | August 30, 2008, 11:55pm | #

74 the avergare IQ of fundamentalist Christians

FAIL!

AW JEEZ NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN guy | August 31, 2008, 12:14am | #

[thought bubble]

Art-P.O.G. | August 31, 2008, 1:01am | #

This thread sucks. Too many wingnuts. I'm with AW JEEZ.

tarylcabot | August 31, 2008, 1:32am | #

some tastelessly funny comments, but will have to vote for mike

1: Members of the 2008 GOP ticket with a developmentally disabled child

1: Members of the 1988 GOP ticket with a developmentally disabled child

Mike Espinoza | August 31, 2008, 1:33am | #

26: Number of years John McCain has worked in Capitol Hill.

26: Number of years Sarah Palin has been out of high school.

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 1:58am | #

0: times Lefiti can prove that Palin is actually a fundie.

BoscoH | August 31, 2008, 2:26am | #

1: # of extra chromosomes Al Gore accused right wingers of having (link).

1: # of extra chromosomes Sarah Palin's newborn has.

RXS | August 31, 2008, 4:49am | #

Ok, drawing on some other comment:

3.8 million: number of ejaculations facilitated by the mental image of Sarah Palin

6.5 million: number of ejaculations delayed by the mental image of John McCain

Substantial: number of happy marriages the McCain/Palin ticket thus saved

Bingo | August 31, 2008, 6:13am | #

Attn fellow nerds:

C&C: Red Alert has been released as freeware, download here -> http://www.ea.com/redalert/news-detail.jsp?id=62

Elemenope | August 31, 2008, 8:40am | #

Mike's at 11:09 is pretty fucking funny.

ed | August 31, 2008, 8:43am | #

300,000,000: The number of Americans who think they can write jokes for Letterman.

ET | August 31, 2008, 9:17am | #

13,805: federal dollars spent on each Alaskan

Ralston Woods | August 31, 2008, 9:27am | #

LOL, Surely there is no one left taking McBush seriously after his latest little shocker, no one with any common sense that is.

WHistler
http://www.Privacy-Center.net

joe | August 31, 2008, 10:09am | #

$20,000,000: Debt level of Wisalla, AK (pop 8000) after Sarah Palin's term ended.

$20,000,000: Debt level of Hillary Clinton's campaign (votes: 18,000,000) after Clinton's campaign ended.

mantooth | August 31, 2008, 10:19am | #

Via Deadspin, Sarah Palin Sportscast:

http://deadspin.com/5043889/sweet-lincolns-mullet-the-sarah-palin-sportscast-video-is-here

Anon A. Mus | August 31, 2008, 11:02am | #

My vote is for FloridaMoose's "number of boobs" post! Excellent!

Episiarch | August 31, 2008, 11:57am | #

Where's my prize, Riggs?

Matt | August 31, 2008, 12:01pm | #

5: The number of Sarah Palin's children

5: McCain's size for Depends underwear

smacky | August 31, 2008, 12:26pm | #

6,000: The number of times McCain will say "my friend" in his next speech.

18: The number of months that pass between each of McCain's bowel movements.


Will Cindy McCain remain the First Lady if John McCain dies in office, and will she and Palin share the executive bedroom? These are the important questions.

Patricia | August 31, 2008, 1:55pm | #

After the beauty fails, "REALITY" will set in......after the first 2 yrs of marriage the "real issues" will be to surface....
and where will this bring our country????.....it is time for "americans" of all races to "WAKE" up....
to put away the boxing gloves...and pray for this country..........and for those "44" year old people that are too preoccupied with surviving and raising their families...they better sit up and be counted and take responsibility for where this country is going...and take a clear look at what the current actions will leave our future.... those kids...under "20" year old.
These kid's of "All races" are looking to us for directions....Yikes....why do I feel scare?????

JDM | August 31, 2008, 2:06pm | #

1: number of elections during which Reason has participated as nothing more than yet another mouthpeice for the Democratic party.

Who's hiring these people?

timmyg | August 31, 2008, 2:11pm | #

1 Bridges to Nowhere supported by Palin
0 Bridges to Nowhere supported by Palin after public found out about it

781,000 Population of Illinois 13th Congressional District
683,000 Population of State of Alaska

BDB | August 31, 2008, 2:15pm | #

17: The number of U.S. cities with a population larger than Alaska

40: The percentage of the U.S. population that lives in localities with a bigger population than the state of Alaska.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 2:18pm | #

"4 1/2: the number of children Sarah Palin has"

Epi, truly thou art the most politically incorrect poster here. LOL

BDB | August 31, 2008, 2:20pm | #

Can you imagine the outrage and derision from the GOP had Obama picked, say, Mayor Menino or Mayor O'Malley?

BDB | August 31, 2008, 2:23pm | #

Fun fact: Both Boston and Baltimore have about as many people as Alaska.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 2:24pm | #

"0: times Lefiti can prove that Palin is actually a fundie."

1: For Lefiti
0: For TAO

"The education section of the Republican Party of Alaska’s platform states “We support giving Creation Science equal representation with other theories of the origin of life. If evolution is taught, it should be presented as only a theory.” Do you support this position? Why?

A: I support this plank in the Republican Party’s platform. I believe society can have healthy debates on scientific theories, so equal representation of creation and evolution shouldn’t be an offense."

http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/aug/29/palin-issues-2002-alaska-gubernatorial-race/

smacky | August 31, 2008, 2:31pm | #

Oh yeah, an addendum to my last post:

5: The number of bowel movements McCain would have in office if elected two terms.

BDB | August 31, 2008, 2:51pm | #

Wasilla City Hall.

Party Pooper | August 31, 2008, 3:10pm | #

Infinity: number of stupid comments possible in the blogosphere.

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 3:37pm | #

A: I support this plank in the Republican Party’s platform. I believe society can have healthy debates on scientific theories, so equal representation of creation and evolution shouldn’t be an offense."

MNG - this doesn't prove she's a fundie.

Not to be rude, but don't be a dumbass, huh?

capelza | August 31, 2008, 3:44pm | #

"so equal representation of creation and evolution"

TAO...what is NOT fundie about that?

Crationism is not a scientific theory.

Should angels guiding our movements and keeping us from floating off into space be given equal billing to Gravity, too?

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 3:52pm | #

capelza - I'm not saying that the idea that creationism deserves a place in scientific discussion. I'm willing to criticize Palin in that regard.

I'm saying her advocacy for "equal billing" does not, on its face, make her a fundamentalist.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:09pm | #

TAO
Creation science (not even "intelligent design") to be given equal time with "other theories of life". Evolution must be taught with the disclaimer that it is "only a theory."

Not to be rude, but don't be a dumbass, that's pretty fundie.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:11pm | #

"giving Creation Science equal representation with other theories of the origin of life. If evolution is taught, it should be presented as only a theory"

That's what the plank that she straight up says she supports says. I love the "if evolution is taught" part...

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 4:12pm | #

MNG - it may be intellectually stunted, but it isn't fundie.

If Palin said that she believed it, that would be different.

Again, since reading isn't the strong suit of the day:

"I believe society can have healthy debates on scientific theories, so equal representation of creation and evolution shouldn’t be an offense."

Scientifically ignorant: yes.
Prima facie case for fundamentalist beliefs?: No.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:16pm | #

"I believe society can have healthy debates on scientific theories, so equal representation of creation and evolution shouldn’t be an offense"

As noted by someone else, that she then goes on to equate "Creation Science" (as I said, not even intelligent design but the Kenneth Ham stuff!) as a "scientific theory" deserving of "equal representation" is hilarious. WIth that level of stupidity that this woman appoints Education officials is troubling to say the least. But then, what can you say about someone whose educational achievement in life is a bachelors degree in journalism from the U. of Idaho? That's pitiful for an executive.

But hey, she is awful pretty!

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:19pm | #

TAO
Let's look at the plank which she gives unequivocal support to.

Evolution must be taught as "only a theory."

"Creation Science" must be given "equal representation" with "other theories of the origin of life."

When's the last time you heard a non-fundie talking like that?

Here btw is the first line of the wiki page on "Creation Science"

Creation science or scientific creationism is a movement within creationism which attempts to use scientific means to disprove the accepted scientific theories on the history of the Earth, cosmology and biological evolution and prove the Genesis account of creation

BDB | August 31, 2008, 4:21pm | #

She is a member of the Assemblies of God.

That's a fundie denomination, sorry. They make Southern Baptists look like Episcopalians.

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 4:22pm | #

oh MNG, please ravish us with your overwhelming academic and political credentials!

we should be governed by the Ivory Tower!

since you're seemingly constitutionally unable to be intellectually honest and just admit you don't have the evidence to call her a "fundie".

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:23pm | #

Her given church background is Assemblies of God, fundie and her current church, Church on the Rock, is supposedly a charismatic church.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:26pm | #

I have a doctorate TAO, yes.

You don't think Palin's educational achievements, relative to other executive level officials, is pretty unimpressive? We could go down the list if it would make it more evidential to ya...

Maybe she is that rare individual who has much more than her educational achievements imply. I don't argue that it cannot be the case, but that stupid evolution statement implies a lot I think...

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 4:27pm | #

and the religious bigotry of some libertarians raises its ugly head.

look, I used to be this way too, so I understand, but going around calling people names based on the church they attend is not constructive dialogue. It's demagoguery.

If you want to impute she's a fundie because of her Church, I should have every right, then, to impute that Obama is, ipso facto, a Black Liberation Theology follower.

Now can we see how stupid this is?

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:28pm | #

"we should be governed by the Ivory Tower!"

I detect a bit of bitterness there. Didn't do too well in college, TAO? Don't worry, it's never too late. Your local community college undoubtedly has a program for a non-traditional student such as yourself...

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 4:30pm | #

MNG - I'm not going to get into a pissing match about educational credentials, because it's frankly none of your fucking business.

I'll let you know, however, that your elitist bigotry has been noted. I'll let someone else in the know about my educational situation edify you as to why you're wrong.

BDB | August 31, 2008, 4:31pm | #

TAO--

If "fundie" doesn't mean a member of a far-out evangelical church I'm not quite sure what the word means, then. I think we're on different wavelengths here.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:32pm | #

"If you want to impute she's a fundie because of her Church, I should have every right, then, to impute that Obama is, ipso facto, a Black Liberation Theology follower.

Now can we see how stupid this is?"

I'm afraid it would only be yourself that would be stupid (but don't despair, see my previous post). The Assemblies of God is well recognized as a fundamentalist DENOMINATION. Obama is a member of the United Church of Christ which, as a DENOMINATION, is not recognized Liberation Theology.

"The World Assemblies of God Fellowship, or Assemblies of God for short, is the world's largest Pentecostal denomination"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assemblies_of_god

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 4:33pm | #

BDB - what I'm saying is that membership in a church does not, on its face, prove anything. Unless you really do believe Obama is a Black Liberation Theologian.

BDB | August 31, 2008, 4:34pm | #

TAO-

I don't, I think they're joined mainly for political/cultural reasons mostly. But it provides smoke that she is a fundie if not fire. I'll have to see more of her.

Really, I'm still vexed by this VP pick. It's extremely out of character for McCain.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:35pm | #

"I'll let you know, however, that your elitist bigotry has been noted."

Ohmigod, does it go in my personal record?

Do you not acknowledge that having a bachelors degree as her highest level of education puts her at the low end of the distribution of state executives on that variable?

BDB | August 31, 2008, 4:36pm | #

MNG, I'll just note that one of our worst Presidents ever (Wilson) was the only one with a PhD.

Truman, who you probably idolize, had nothing but a high school diploma.

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 4:37pm | #

The Assemblies of God is well recognized as a fundamentalist DENOMINATION.

Capital letters will make your argument more forceful!

Lemme get this logic straight:

The A/G is a Pentecostal Church, and many Pentecostals are evangelicals...so it therefore follows that Palin is, by logical deduction, a fundie?

Please tell me that Ph.D. of yours isn't in logic.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:38pm | #

I would hazard a guess that it would put her within the 5 least educated state executives if not the least educated.

Combining that with the amazing, as you yourself admit, "scientific ignorance" of her statement on evolution, makes me think she's probably not one of those who is much more than they seem on paper...

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:41pm | #

TAO

I'm not sure you understand what a denomination is. It's a common sociological and religous classification.


If Pentacostal does not equal fundamentalist I'm not sure what the hell does.

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 4:45pm | #

Ohmigod, does it go in my personal record?

Yeah, actually, it does. Just like the time you called Rush Limbaugh a "fat faggot" over and over and over and over again.

It's just revealing of your character.

If Pentacostal does not equal fundamentalist I'm not sure what the hell does.

I know. It's OK...you lack the education in religions to understand the differences between evangelism, fundamentalism. You also have enough bigotry to impart overly broad labels on a spectrum of beliefs.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:48pm | #

Since you like logic you should know what makes an argument by analogy apt or not. You presented the following argument by analogy:
"If you want to impute she's a fundie because of her Church, I should have every right, then, to impute that Obama is, ipso facto, a Black Liberation Theology follower"

But your analogy is inapt because your talking about Palin's denomination but not Obama's denomination.

BDB | August 31, 2008, 4:48pm | #

MNG do you think Truman was one of our greatest Presidents?

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:51pm | #

"you lack the education in religions to understand the differences between evangelism, fundamentalism"

TAO
You're just digging deeper. You're the one, @4:37 who equated fundamentalism and evangelicalism!

"A/G is a Pentecostal Church, and many Pentecostals are evangelicals...so it therefore follows that Palin is, by logical deduction, a fundie"

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 4:52pm | #

and I'm trying to tell you that the classification of an entire denomination as a "fundamentalist" is wrong.

And if you're going to quote Wikipedia that just blithely states that A/G is "fundie", I cannot help you.

There are fundamentalist Catholics, Jews, Hindus, nondenominational Christians, etc. etc.

If you choose to impart that label on Palin's church and by proxy impart it on her, that's your choice.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:52pm | #

TAO
Yes, I would have prefered to call him a "fat pussy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentacostal
"Pentecostalism is a fundamentalist religious movement within Christianity that places special emphasis on the direct personal experience of God through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, as shown in the Biblical account of the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2)."

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 4:53pm | #

no, I didn't equate them, MNG. I was spelling out your argument.

go learn something about religions, please.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:53pm | #

BDB
No.

I did like his stand on unions.

BDB | August 31, 2008, 4:54pm | #

Ok, well many think he is and all he had was a high school diploma.

And again, Wilson was horrid but was a PhD holding intellectual.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 4:58pm | #

Look, the Assemblies of God is classified in social scientific and religious studies research as a "fundamentalist" denomination. It is for a reason, as a denomination they have certain stated beliefs which are rather conservative (you can read the 16 principles of the AG on the wiki page I noted). Membership in a denomination that is classified as fundamentalist is often used, even above self-identification as a fundamentalist, as identifying a subject as a fundamentalist.

So yes, without an interview where Palin attests to all the tenets laid out in the pamphlet series "The Fundamentals" she cannot be absolutely classified as one, but her membership in recognized fundamentalist denominations and her wacky evolution beliefs provide some strong evidence that she herself is a fundie.

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 5:04pm | #

I see. So anytime I meet a Catholic I can assume that they're either abstaining from sex or (if they're married) using the rhythm method?

And I have yet to see any "wacky" beliefs about evolution. Claiming that there should scientific debate about nonscientific theories is dumb, yes. Which I've acknowledged.

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 5:10pm | #

So she believes that when evolution is taught it MUST be taught only as a theory and that does not qualify as a wacky belief about evolution? Or that Creation Science is a scientific theory deserving of equal representation? Not a wacky belief about evolutionary theory?

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 5:12pm | #

Hey TAO, maybe she joined a fundamentalist church which states its fundamentalist beliefs up front for the music or beauty of the building!

Mr. Nice Guy | August 31, 2008, 5:16pm | #

"We support giving Creation Science equal representation with other theories of the origin of life. If evolution is taught, it should be presented as only a theory.” Do you support this position? Why?

A: I support this plank in the Republican Party’s platform."

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 5:19pm | #

so, support of a political plank imparts a whole host of beliefs and worldviews concerning science and religion.

Ho-Kay.

regardless, I'll take these talking points right here as Obama's unmistakable beliefs..

Sound fair to you, then?

Neu Mejican | August 31, 2008, 6:25pm | #

TAO,

Palin attends a fundamentalist church. Whether that makes her a fundamentalist or not is an open question.

Why it would matter, I am not sure...until it affects her positions on specific policies, I don't care.

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 6:26pm | #

NM - thank you! That is exactly the point I was trying to express.

Elemenope | August 31, 2008, 6:52pm | #

TAO --

As I noted on another thread, if you're a supporter of creation science and you *aren't* a fundie, that's twice as bad, because you don't even have an excuse. At least a fundie can say "I literally believe this book and that's why!" What the hell is a non-fundie gonna say?

Party Pooper | August 31, 2008, 6:52pm | #

Ah, the Blog-O-Sphere™.
Where Hope reigns eternal for all god's idiots.

marley | August 31, 2008, 7:00pm | #

priceless: giving ever male social-con a raging woody to vote McPain-Palin

BDB | August 31, 2008, 7:38pm | #

Palin apparently thinks the Founders wrote the Pledge of Allegiance.

She said if the pledge was "good enough for the Founding Fathers, it's good enough for me!"

XX Dan Quayle, indeed. I like her less the more she talks.

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 7:39pm | #

What the hell is a non-fundie gonna say?

I dunno! I was just making the point that this could be Palin's version of intellectual nuance, as opposed to some attempts to divine her thoughts from one stance.

BDB | August 31, 2008, 7:45pm | #

TAO all this may be true but Palin's comment on the pledge is beginning to make me wonder if she is the sharpest knife in the drawer.

BDB | August 31, 2008, 7:46pm | #

And this is coming from someone who doesn't think George W. Bush is stupid.

Elemenope | August 31, 2008, 7:56pm | #

BDB --

Of course he ain't stupid. His folksy "aw shucks" crap was a conscious (and disgustingly disingenuous) inflection. All one has to do is watch him paste Ann Richards at the gubernatorial debates to know he isn't a moron.

Elemenope | August 31, 2008, 7:59pm | #

I was just making the point that this could be Palin's version of intellectual nuance, as opposed to some attempts to divine her thoughts from one stance.

Fair enough. Just in my experience there's a difference between "nuance" and "muddling through a public answer in an attempt to piss off as few people as possible".

Elemenope | August 31, 2008, 8:02pm | #

She said if the pledge was "good enough for the Founding Fathers, it's good enough for me!"

The truth of it is way funnier. I *love* telling social conservatives that the pledge was written by a proud socialist and watching their heads spin in place.

BDB | August 31, 2008, 8:02pm | #

"The truth of it is way funnier. I *love* telling social conservatives that the pledge was written by a proud socialist and watching their heads spin in place."

Me too. This is why it's important to know history.

Kip | August 31, 2008, 8:10pm | #

"If you want to impute she's a fundie because of her Church, I should have every right, then, to impute that Obama is, ipso facto, a Black Liberation Theology follower.

Now can we see how stupid this is?"

1 - Number of intellegent statements on this snarky thread.

Autodidact | August 31, 2008, 8:11pm | #

"I detect a bit of bitterness there. Didn't do too well in college, TAO?"

Neither did Joe Biden.

Kip | August 31, 2008, 8:13pm | #

"If you want to impute she's a fundie because of her Church, I should have every right, then, to impute that Obama is, ipso facto, a Black Liberation Theology follower.

Now can we see how stupid this is?"

1 - Number of intellegent statements on this snarky little thread.

Jennifer | August 31, 2008, 8:48pm | #

Truly an historic event: instead of two boobs on the Republican ticket, we've got three.

BDB | August 31, 2008, 9:20pm | #

What Jennifer? You mean you aren't going to vote for McCain because he has someone with a vagina on the ticket? OMG!! YOU MUST NOT BE A PROUD WOMAN!

/sarcasm

Danielle | August 31, 2008, 9:57pm | #

"I detect a bit of bitterness there. Didn't do too well in college, TAO?"

Neither did Joe Biden."

"Writers come from master-of-fine-arts programs now. If you add up the college education of Steinbeck, Hemingway and Faulkner, you get to spring break of freshman year."

- Thomas Wolfe

Wulf | August 31, 2008, 10:29pm | #

The "fundie" argument killed the thread. Thanks, guys.

varla | August 31, 2008, 10:49pm | #

Mike at 11:09 - please claim your prize Monday between 8:15 and 8:22 am EST

muchsarcasm | August 31, 2008, 11:11pm | #

0.78: The number of dollars Barack Obama's state gets back for each dollar it gives to the federal government (2008).

0.80: The number of dollars Joe Biden's state gets back for each dollar it gives to the federal government (2008).

1.19: The number of dollars John McCain's state gets back for each dollar it gives to the federal government (2008).

1.83: The number of dollars Sarah Palin's state gets back for each dollar it gives to the federal government (2008).

Dave2 | September 1, 2008, 12:55am | #

I guess The Angry Optimist is the sort of person who refuses to say that O.J. Simpson killed his wife or that the universe has existed for more than five minutes. After all, we can't prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

nemo | September 1, 2008, 3:59am | #

So it is sexist if you do not support Hillary Clinton for president but it is not sexist to make jabs at Sarah Palin and deride her for (GASP) being a loving mother and (GASP) attractive?

Got it.

Stephen | September 1, 2008, 6:45am | #

5 - The number of Palin's children

4 - The number of Palin's children

Jim Bob | September 1, 2008, 7:35am | #

The "fundie" argument killed the thread. Thanks, guys.

Mrs. Nice Guy's straight-faced assertion that he has a doctorate did it for me. Lying about your credentials on the interweb is so '90s.

Mr. Nice Guy | September 1, 2008, 8:15am | #

Sorry Jimmy, some people have doctorates and I'm one of them. Several people on H&R either have one or are working on a terminal degree (well, I guess they claim to). Thoreau and Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job are two I can think of right off. I've discussed this before on H&R (though only in response to the question "so what degree do you have blah blah"). Mine is in political science. I do not work in academe but for a private firm which does some survey work but mostly secondary data analysis (hence my love of the US Census) for governmental offices and/or private firms.

As I said to TAO I'll say to you: it's never too late for you to get one, especially considering all the great programs that "liberal statist politicans" have brought you in the last several decades.

Elemenope | September 1, 2008, 9:04am | #

Jim Bob got pwned. Especially the part about "liberal statist programs"; classic smackdown.

The Angry Optimist | September 1, 2008, 10:22am | #

As I said to TAO I'll say to you: it's never too late for you to get one, especially considering all the great programs that "liberal statist politicans" have brought you in the last several decades.

I thought those programs brought me massive collegiate-level grade inflation and the lessening of the worth of my degree.

Government can not only get me my education, it can make me taller and get me a pony! and a girlfriend!

Thanks Government!

Episiarch | September 1, 2008, 10:23am | #

The "fundie" argument killed the thread. Thanks, guys.

This was a thread about insulting Palin's retarded child, and you fucking ruined it. Now that's retarded.

Mr. Nice Guy | September 1, 2008, 12:27pm | #

"Government can not only get me my education, it can make me taller and get me a pony! and a girlfriend!"

Education, yes. And maybe stem cell research and neonatal care assistance can make you taller. And there was a 40 acre and a mule thing going on at one point, so maybe a pony. But somehow I don't think they can help you on the last one TAO, even the government can't work miracles. ;)

Mr. Nice Guy | September 1, 2008, 12:31pm | #

"This was a thread about insulting Palin's retarded child, and you fucking ruined it. Now that's retarded."

Look Epi, I'm gonna dispel a few myths, a few rumors. First off, the retarded don't rule the night. They don't rule it. Nobody does. And they don't run in packs. And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows. You might be screaming "No, no, no" and all they hear is "Who wants cake?" Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake.

Episiarch | September 1, 2008, 12:38pm | #

Jerri: Mr. Noblet wants me to snitch on a friend.

Jellineck: Snitching doesn’t seem like you, Jerri.

Jerri: Oh, it’s not what you think. It’s not like snitching on a real person. She's--

Jellineck: Gay?

Jerri: Retarded.

Jellineck: Yes, most of them are.

Jerri: Most who are what?

Jellineck: Most gay people are retarded.

Jerri: Does that mean Kimberly Timbers is gay?

Jellineck: I don’t know. Hey! Make a pass at her and find out. She'd have to be retarded to turn you down.

Jim Bob | September 1, 2008, 1:18pm | #

Well, Mrs. Nice Guy, I was going to guess that if you do have a doctorate it's in education, one in a series of doctorates for retards that also, happily enough, includes political science.

You don't scare me. Work on it.

As I said to TAO I'll say to you: it's never too late for you to get one, especially considering all the great programs that "liberal statist politicans" have brought you in the last several decades.

Yeah, yeah, I'm going to get a doctorate at some point. I started college late and I'm still working on my first bachelor's degree.

But "liberal statist politicans?" WTF are you talking about? When have I ever said anything about academics here on H&R? Why do you assume that, because I think you're a douchebag, that I am also your ideological opposite?

Jim Bob | September 1, 2008, 1:18pm | #

For the record, whatever "liberal statist politicans" means, I do not support liberalism, statism, or politicians.

Uh-huh! | September 1, 2008, 1:53pm | #

1: The number of "Barak O-Boners" that a certain lefty commenter has in his fat mouth

5: The number of said "O-Boners" that he can actually take at once

Tsu Dho Nihm | September 1, 2008, 4:57pm | #

Palin apparently thinks the Founders wrote the Pledge of Allegiance.

She said if the pledge was "good enough for the Founding Fathers, it's good enough for me!"

Man, that is seriously disturbing. Then again it's not really surprising. "Conservatives" in the Republican party seem to have embraced the socialist pledge as their own mantra.

PapayaSF | September 1, 2008, 7:24pm | #

OMG, she doesn't know the origin of the Pledge of Allegiance? That does it, I'm going to vote for the guy who doesn't know how many states there are.

smacky | September 1, 2008, 11:45pm | #

I won the prize! Oh, my. It was breathtaking. And it hurt A LOT. But I secretly liked it. Don't feel bad, most of you wouldn't have wanted it, anyway.

smacky | September 2, 2008, 2:42am | #

Just kidding. I haven't received official notification of my new crowning achievement in potty jokes...yet.

TallDave | September 2, 2008, 1:06pm | #

2: Number of unrepentant terrorists Barack Obama is friends with.

6: Number of years John McCain was a POW.

Neu Mejican | September 2, 2008, 3:01pm | #

TAO,

Palin attends a fundamentalist church. Whether that makes her a fundamentalist or not is an open question.

Why it would matter, I am not sure...until it affects her positions on specific policies, I don't care.

The Angry Optimist | August 31, 2008, 6:26pm | #
NM - thank you! That is exactly the point I was trying to express.

No problem.
So far I have found these policies that are affected by her beliefs:

1)She supports abstinence only education rather than sex education for children despite that fact that research shows abstinence only programs do not decrease sexual activity, but do increase unwanted pregnancy and transmission of STD's...this is somewhat ironic.

2)She supports force being used to prevent women from making their own reproductive choices.

Neu Mejican | September 2, 2008, 3:03pm | #

it's never too late for you to get one, especially considering all the great programs that "liberal statist politicans" have brought you in the last several decades

Correct me if I am wrong, but for TAO that would be called "The GI Bill."

Davis | September 5, 2008, 11:47pm | #

Stupid!