MADDsteria

Taking those gory driver's ed videos to the next level:

Many juniors and seniors were driven to tears – a few to near hysterics – May 26 when a uniformed police officer arrived in several classrooms to notify them that a fellow student had been killed in a drunken-driving accident.

The officer read a brief eulogy, placed a rose on the deceased student’s seat, then left the class members to process their thoughts and emotions for the next hour.

The program, titled “Every 15 Minutes,” was designed by Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Its title refers to the frequency in which a person somewhere in the country dies in an alcohol-related traffic accident.

About 10 a.m., students were called to the athletic stadium, where they learned that their classmates had not died. There, a group of seniors, police officers and firefighters staged a startlingly realistic alcohol-induced fatal car crash. The students who had purportedly died portrayed ghostly apparitions encircling the scene.

Though the deception left some teens temporarily confused and angry, if it makes even one student think twice before getting behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated, it is worth the price, said California Highway Patrol Officer Eric Newbury, who orchestrates the program at local high schools.

[...]

“If I sit there and lecture somebody in a nice way, it's going to go in one ear and out the other,” he said. “In today's world, where they have all sorts of gore and fantastic things that kids can access on the computer, if you want to compete with that, you have to jar them emotionally.

“I want them to be an emotional wreck. I don't want them to have to live through this for real.”

Comments

Chris Potter | May 31, 2008, 2:00pm | #

Fake deaths are so cliche...

Chris Potter | May 31, 2008, 2:03pm | #

Of course, if they had done this at my high school, everyone would have been majorly pissed when they found out I was still alive.

Gahan | May 31, 2008, 2:07pm | #

This sort of crap makes me want to call that police officer's family and tell them he was killed in the line of duty, just for kicks.

Brandybuck | May 31, 2008, 2:07pm | #

At my high school one day, there was a spontaneous rumour that "Peter" had died. Everyone was talking about it all day long. But Peter didn't die, he was just out sick. When he walked onto campus the next day, one girl collapsed in a faint.

Ike | May 31, 2008, 2:11pm | #

Isn't this intentional infliction of emotional distress?

I would sue the pants off these fucking people

Episiarch | May 31, 2008, 2:11pm | #

This sort of crap makes me want to call that police officer's family and tell them he was killed in the line of duty, just for kicks.

And you'd get arrested and charged with some wildly inappropriate charge like violation of RICO or something because a) you're not cop, you're little people, and b) what you would have done wouldn't have been for the children.

Naga Sadow | May 31, 2008, 2:11pm | #

Gahan,

Not for kicks, as a rehearsal of the real thing. Numbers don't lie. Law enforcement has an incredibly high suicide rate.

Gahan | May 31, 2008, 2:13pm | #

"Our apologies to Officer Newbury's family, but if his fake death makes at least one person think about how many people are senselessly killed in the war on drugs, it is worth the price."

BakedPenguin | May 31, 2008, 2:14pm | #

Law enforcement has an incredibly high suicide rate.

If you were wondering where all the honest cops are...

Happy Jack | May 31, 2008, 2:19pm | #

The real lesson the kids learn is that it's okay for authority figures to lie, as long they think it's for your own good.

Andy Craig | May 31, 2008, 2:23pm | #

I went through more or less this exact same thing at my high school, though we knew the guy coming around announcing "deaths" was fake from the get-go. I'd be amazed if a majority of students actually believed it at this school. If the hyperdramatic rose thing didn't tip them off, then there's no way they wouldn't have known once the bell rang to switch classes and they found out the same thing was happening in other rooms. All of that's on top of the fact that DWI deaths are never "announced" like that in a school.

The whole thing was a complete joke to 95% of the students (and teachers). The 5% who got upset about it were the type who'd never drink any way, much less drink and drive.

Anonymous Coward | May 31, 2008, 2:26pm | #

What if they replaced "drunk driving" with "sex education" and would it have the same impact, not only on the students but the local community as well?

"They were killed in a sex-related accident."

That would be hysterical, with an empahsis on hysteria.

Naga Sadow | May 31, 2008, 2:26pm | #

Happy Jack,

The flip side is that as long as you say what the "authority figure" wants to hear you can basically do what you want.

Gahan | May 31, 2008, 2:38pm | #

There's also the 'boy who cried wolf' effect to be considered. Now nobody is going to believe it when someone really is killed.

Andy Craig | May 31, 2008, 2:42pm | #

If someone was really killed, they wouldn't be doing anything like that. There probably wouldn't be any official recognition at all. That's how it was at my school when a couple of idiots got killed hitting a telephone pole at 90mph- drunk and on various other substances. Not that that stopped the outpouring of melodramatic "tributes" and such from the students. They had no idea how to mourn, and I suspect most of them weren't actually mourning any way. It wasn't a big school- about 700 students across three grades- but it was big enough that I knew most of the people making a fuss had never known the girls in question. I hadn't.

J sub D | May 31, 2008, 2:43pm | #

Though the deception left some teens temporarily confused and angry, if it makes even one student think twice before getting behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated, it is worth the price, said California Highway Patrol Officer Eric Newbury, who orchestrates the program at local high schools.

Oh yeah. Government lies and simplistic propoganda are the main reasons I've never tried marijuana, LSD, speed, downers, psilocybin, or heroin. I also remained a virgin until my wedding night.

Oh wait ...

kevrob | May 31, 2008, 2:52pm | #

Did they send in fake grief counselors?

Kevin

Richard Upton Pickman | May 31, 2008, 2:55pm | #

I agree with Andy, there usually isn't this kind of public recognition. If there is, it is mostly as heavy-handed moralizing. There was a recent accident in Columbus Ohio where something like three teens were killed. The first part of the news story played up the tragedy of it all; the second half was with the police who found something like half a joint in the car and noted that the kids were at a party with 'drugs and alcohol'. The message was pretty clear in the news coverage - this is sad but these drug using teens deserve it.

As for our high school friends - I once missed a week of school because of mono. By the second day a friend of mine spread the rumor that I had died. The day I came back was pretty amusing....

Happy Jack | May 31, 2008, 2:55pm | #

What if they replaced "drunk driving" with "sex education"

Don't give them any ideas. I can see them hiring some Hell's Angels to gang rape a student in front of an assembly, just to highlight the pitfalls of showing cleavage.

Naga Sadow | May 31, 2008, 2:55pm | #

kevrob,

I prefer to look on all counselors as "fake", i.e., useless.

Naga Sadow | May 31, 2008, 2:58pm | #

Happy Jack,

Hopefully that student will be into that sort of thing and therefore everything would work out for everyone.

CharlesWT | May 31, 2008, 2:58pm | #

The ends justify the means...

Mr. Nice Guy | May 31, 2008, 2:59pm | #

Isn't there a tort for "intentional infliction of emotional distress" in California? I think in many states the "intent" can be "reckless outrageous conduct" of which I think this is an example. What the fuckety fuck!

Andy Craig | May 31, 2008, 3:03pm | #

That might be true, but we all know as a practical reality anything done a) by the police or b) "for the children" takes place outside the realm of the rule of law. This has both.

Also, they might be able to argue parens patriea. As despicable as this was, I don't want a precedent established where actual parents could be hauled into court for doing it.

Mr. Nice Guy | May 31, 2008, 3:03pm | #

"The intent of the act need not be to bring about emotional distress. A reckless disregard for the likelihood of causing emotional distress is sufficient."

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_infliction_of_emotional_distress

But then again, the intent here WAS to inflict emotional distress:
“I want them to be an emotional wreck. I don't want them to have to live through this for real.”

Andy Craig | May 31, 2008, 3:06pm | #

I'm not a lawyer, but as long as there was no chance of establishing a "parents can't do this either" precedent, I saw go for it. Though I don't know what group would get involved here. The ACLU?

Andy Craig | May 31, 2008, 3:08pm | #

Though I have a sneaking suspicion the judge in such a case might decide all of a sudden he has no problem with a jury nullification defense, and then they get to bring in all their "It saves lives!" and "It's for their own good!" arguments.

P Brooks | May 31, 2008, 3:19pm | #

If only we could convince the nice policeman that several of his co-workers had been dragged from their cars, beaten senseless, and set on fire by an outraged mob of middle class citizens fed up with their ham-handed statist idiocy.

"See? Behave, or it could happen to you."

M | May 31, 2008, 3:35pm | #

What happened to the "deceased" student when he was returned to the company of his peers?

Kelly | May 31, 2008, 3:36pm | #

I think we should all sue Balko/Reason for "intentional infliction of emotional distress" for posting this for us all to read.

Judi Hartwell | May 31, 2008, 3:42pm | #

On May 18, 2008 in N.C.,at approximately 11:20 P.M. Sunday night, Brandon Craver, age 18 and a high school Senior due to graduate in June of this year, was killed when the motorcycle he was riding home (within two miles of home) left the road in a sudden downpour of rain, hit a culvert, throwing him into a power pole then his body onto the pavement of a rural road. Another vehicle, not knowing what had just occurred, could NOT STOP in time and hit his still-alive body. In spite of this, Brandon still tried to speak to rescue personnel on the scene. He died a few hours later in the early morning hours on May 19, 2008. Brandon was also a senior volunteer firefighter. His department and colleagues responded to this call. Brandon had just taken and passed the agility test the previous day to become a paid firefighter for our city fire department.
This was NOT a 'drill' or 'staged scene'. This was reality in the worst way.
My son, his classmate, and Brandon's other classmates suffered and grieved immensely.
The depression I am seeing my son and others go through is indescribable. These kids will NEVER get over this completely. I witnessed their pain. It was and still is horrific.
To 'stage' an incident to provoke or invoke a response such as the one described in this article is incomprehensible, unethical, unprofessional, unwarranted and unforgiveable.
One would imagine that these supposedly educated people could have used creativity other than the one they chose to get their POINT across. Just a note, I am a former paramedic of 7 years. I only THOUGHT I had heard and seen just about everything until now.

Judi Hartwell | May 31, 2008, 3:47pm | #

P.S. There was NO alcohol, drugs or other aggravating factors involved in Brandon's accident other than the fact he got caught in a sudden downpour of rain.

First Little Pig | May 31, 2008, 3:49pm | #

Ah "Scared Straight" brought back into the class room no less! Albeit without the anal rape analogies or the convict whose eye was dug out with a spoon by a fellow convict.

Good times.

Although I had never guessed you could do the same thing by only faking it! Brilliant!

/serious sarcasm

P Brooks | May 31, 2008, 3:58pm | #

And another thing- the sort of dweebs who could be recruited to participate in such a charade would probably not be considered "most likely to die in a flaming drunken crash" by their peers, injecting a certain amount of incredulity into the process.

Judi Hartwell | May 31, 2008, 4:00pm | #

To First Little Pig:

I believe that was a "RUSTY" spoon used to gouge that eye out!

Wolf | May 31, 2008, 4:07pm | #

"Boy!"

John-David | May 31, 2008, 4:10pm | #

God damn it. I just was starting to feel halfway decent about cops after reading how an off-duty officer helped save some people from 50 Cent's burning house. Now this story. Fucking cops.

John-David | May 31, 2008, 4:12pm | #

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/4062/family.html

Eric Newbury, 15654: [e-mail]

I assume 15654 is his badge number. Shocking he's a Raider fan.

Chris Potter | May 31, 2008, 4:19pm | #

P Brooks,

Maybe they recruited problem students in return for a reduction in detention time. Heck, you get out of class for the day, too.

Come to think of it, how do you recruit anyone for this? I mean, you can't just go up and ask them, "Do you want us to pretend you're dead for a few periods?", because then if they refuse they'll tell everyone else about it and it won't work.

John-David | May 31, 2008, 4:20pm | #

I see the oinkers at policelink are bitching about Obama's placement of porta-potties at a rally.

http://www.policelink.com/news/26729-obama-uses-police-memorial-for-porta-potties

Mark | May 31, 2008, 4:25pm | #

Should be "zero tolerance" for this kind of horseshit.

Judi Hartwell | May 31, 2008, 4:29pm | #

To Mark:

The law says you have to SCOOP up your HORSES--T. Wonder if they have one BIG enough for this load?

First Little Pig | May 31, 2008, 4:48pm | #

OK. I went and watched parts of Scared Straight on you tube to see how well I remembered it. I have decided that Cris Rock borrowed his on stage persona from the convict with the eye gouged out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEiwmcicOu0

He's the second convict up.

Stephen the Goldberger | May 31, 2008, 4:56pm | #

This is disgusting.

joe | May 31, 2008, 4:58pm | #

The nuns made us sit through a slide show of photos of people disfigured in car accidents, courtesy of two ER nurses.

Don't fuck with the nuns.

Episiarch | May 31, 2008, 5:18pm | #

I highly recommend this MAD TV sketch about "Scared Straight".

jb | May 31, 2008, 6:07pm | #

Via John-David | May 31, 2008, 4:12pm | #
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/4062/family.html


The link takes you to a roster of the CHP. Funny thing though, the music playing in the backround is the theme song from the television show Cheers. You know, the show where everyone is shown sitting around a bar getting drunk.

two ER nurses | May 31, 2008, 6:12pm | #

We don't disfigure people in car accidents, joe.

Detective Donut | May 31, 2008, 6:19pm | #

Oink ! Oink!

Jim Bob | May 31, 2008, 6:25pm | #

One day they'll just go all the way and slaughter one of the children in front of the other children. After all, children need to become acquainted with violent death in order to become inured to it.

It's for the children.

Jim Bob | May 31, 2008, 6:26pm | #

Also- and here's where I lose every parent I've to whom I have ever spoken- children, as much as adults, resent being talked to or treated as if they are stupid.

Jim Bob | May 31, 2008, 6:27pm | #

me tipe gooder

Erÿk Boston, J.D. | May 31, 2008, 6:28pm | #

This might even qualify for negligent infliction of emotional distress if the stress was sufficient to cause physical symptoms although some courts have allowed for recovery in the absence of physical symptoms in cases of someone being wrongfully told of a relatives death. (Western Union paid a lot of claims for this one)

As for intention infliction of mental distress (which carries two bonuses: punitive damages and damages from intentional torts can not be discharged in a bankruptcy), these are the elements:

Intent (which may include recklessness)
Extreme and Outrageous Conduct
Actual severe distress

Intent can mean reckless disregard for probable distress although, in this case, the fact that he came right out and said that he wanted the students to be "emotional wrecks" means a plaintiff won't have to bother much with proving recklessness. Further, the fact that the relationship here was one of trust and credibility (Yes, people should be able to trust the police although they certainly did much to kill whatever trust the students had.) makes the "extreme and outrageous" element easier to prove. If one of the students who were told this lie happens to be related to the "dead" students, the police are screwed. Minors are also considered more delicate than adults. The tricky element is the actual distress which usually means stress severe enough to require medical aid. Public utilities are generally held to a higher standard on this count and it is CA which is generally plaintiff friendly.

Bottom line: if a suit in this matter survives summary judgment, someone will be collecting a big check.

Lawrence | May 31, 2008, 6:36pm | #

In my opinion, such staging of the consequences of drunk driving is just plain wrong - completely misguided. We do learn lessons from life, but only when they are real, I think. It is true that some teenage deaths are caused by drunk driving, but others are caused by other manifestations of teenagers' poor judgment - driving too fast for conditions that present themselves is a big one too. What made the kids at our little high school (classes of 100 students) pay attention to the way they acted in cars? - Three actual deaths. We all learned to park well onto the shoulder of the road when checking the radiator or doing any other kind of repair on the day a student who had parked a little too close to the busy road right in front of our school was decapitated as an inattentive driver plowed into the back of his car. That happened when I was in seventh grade. We all learned to drive well over to the side of the road when going around blind curves on the day another student was crushed by a large truck that hit him head-on. That happened when I was sixteen. We all learned to drive slowly at night on tree- lined roads on the day a boy from my class was killed driving too fast as he approached his driveway.That happened when I was seventeen.

It might be much more effective to tell the kids about an actual person who had attended their school and who had died as a result of drunk driving. Fakery just seems like constructing an opportunity for kids to thumb their noses at it. I wouldn't be surprised if a whole bunch of kids got drunk and drove home on purpose after having been subjected to what seems an incredible lack of respect for their ability to process reality. What's really awful is that it is giving them a condoned model of emotional manipulation. What are these people thinking?

Erÿk Boston, J.D. | May 31, 2008, 6:36pm | #

Disclaimer: none of the above is intended to be legal counseling or advice. Presented for academic discussion only.

Brian24 | May 31, 2008, 6:54pm | #

Why would anybody think this would "work" anyway? So the kids will come away thinking, "Wow, if one of my classmates died, I'd be really emotional and sad." But nobody gets behind the wheel thinking they're going to die.

Methinks one of those video game things, where they simulate the loss of reaction time when you've been drinking, would be a much more effective way of showing kids how dangerous it is to drink and drive. This just shows them "dying sucks."

prolefeed | May 31, 2008, 7:25pm | #

Radley -- Now you're shilling for Big Sobriety.

thoreau | May 31, 2008, 7:55pm | #

The whole thing was a complete joke to 95% of the students (and teachers). The 5% who got upset about it were the type who'd never drink any way, much less drink and drive.

I dunno, after that kind of trauma they might need a drink.

Chris Potter | May 31, 2008, 8:09pm | #

Brian24,

Good point. Maybe they should adapt this for Palestinian madrassas to cut down on suicide bombers.

ChrisH | May 31, 2008, 8:23pm | #

One reason why teaching kids about things like drunk driving "goes in one ear and out the other" is that at that age they have a hard time realizing that these things really happen and that they're not immortal.

So to cure this? Demonstrate that these kind of things *are* fake, and that kids who die this way come back and get a lot of attention.

This kind of brilliance can only be brought forth by the synergy of Law Enforcement and Government Schools.

John C Jackson | May 31, 2008, 8:30pm | #

The only thing I can say ( and I say it to my wife and 5 year old several times a day) is:

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

D.A. Ridgely | May 31, 2008, 8:46pm | #

At least now I understand what John was up to with all that "Paul is dead" business.

joe | May 31, 2008, 8:55pm | #

We don't disfigure people in car accidents, joe.

Yeah, the nuns would have killed me for that sentence construction.

Guy Montag | May 31, 2008, 9:15pm | #

JFC, stupid ploys like these always result in the opposite effect of what the "brains" behind them intend.

Why do they keep doing it? Does it skip a generation or something?

P Brooks | May 31, 2008, 9:51pm | #

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

You, too?

Judi Hartwell | May 31, 2008, 10:15pm | #

What is WRONG with these people is called NEURO-FLATULENCE...a version I coined from the term BRAIN FART...In this case, it was a MAJOR one and unfortunately SHARED by many!

Gas-EX anyone?

ktc2 | May 31, 2008, 10:25pm | #

Is it a crime to wish for the chewing of law enforcement?

No, but perhaps that movie should have been.

Hmm...too much to drink.

Xmas | May 31, 2008, 10:26pm | #

I think this is appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZTUIUkYp8s

lower case j | May 31, 2008, 11:59pm | #

if it makes even one student think twice before getting behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated, it is worth the price, said California Highway Patrol Officer Eric Newbury, who orchestrates the program at local high schools.

Every student in the high school has now been given a lesson on being skeptical of the claims made by authority figures.

Keep up the good work and God bless you Officer Newbury.

unhyphenatedconservative | June 1, 2008, 12:45am | #

I like Ike

Freedom Geek | June 1, 2008, 1:07am | #

Part of me hopes that a kid will kill themselves after hearing it...

chud | June 1, 2008, 1:53am | #

They've been doing this sort of thing for years. I actually participated in one of these staged events at my high school in the '90s. I had to play dead and the fire dept came and used the jaws of life on the car I was in and carried me away in a body bag.

Kaganspawn | June 1, 2008, 2:53am | #

On the 1-10 scale of outrage over police misconduct it's a 3 or 4. Yes, it represents a mindset that it is OK for the G to lie as long as they think it is for the people's own good. That's the really pernicious part.

As to the legal issue, although shocking someone by faking the death of someone close to the victim has supported emotional distress claims, in this case the officer would almost surely enjoy qualified immunity for the act undertaken in good faith in the performance of duty. Not to mention that distress claims are very hard to prove and courts are skeptical a priori because a significant number of emotional distress claims are bogus.

Never Left (High School) | June 1, 2008, 3:28am | #

C'mon folks just another gay-as-shit object lesson that works on maybe teen-age girls emotionally. Not that it will save a single life, so save it for the drama class.

Radley, at least when they're doing this they aren't busting down doors in raids and killing people. Maybe high school drama classes aren't so bad as long as they give important roles to wannabes like cops.

scape | June 1, 2008, 5:21am | #

Isn't there a tort for "intentional infliction of emotional distress" in California? I think in many states the "intent" can be "reckless outrageous conduct" of which I think this is an example.

Something along the lines of not being able to "yell 'death' in a crowded classroom?"

What usually gets my head shaking when reading about horseshit like this is that a full morning was wasted on the performance and assembly – and I’ll assume most of the afternoon with discussions, gossip and jokes about it – as another school day is spent on non-academic pursuits.


Tauber said she is aware that drinking and driving is occurring among the student population.
“I just know in my heart this was worth it,” she said.

Nice for her. It’s ironic that early morning shock therapy is administered in an educational institution – in the hopes of causing juveniles to use their brains and think about actions and consequences – with the justification that it just, somehow, feels right.

Elemenope | June 1, 2008, 8:27am | #

...in this case the officer would almost surely enjoy qualified immunity for the act undertaken in good faith in the performance of duty...

Um, what part of a policeman's duty (as written) includes "scaring the shit out of kids (for their own good)?"

Also, that qualified immunity goes out the window because the stated reason was to inflict harm, which cannot be in good faith except as an act of justification (i.e. to save either that or someone else's life from *immediate* harm). That is clearly not the case, unless there is a bar somewhere on the campus of that school, and kids often drink at it before driving home.

Episiarch | June 1, 2008, 8:38am | #

“I just know in my heart this was worth it,”

And I just know in my heart that doing an eight ball is worth it--after all, I paid for it, didn't I? So can I use that as my defense if I get busted?

parse | June 1, 2008, 9:51am | #

Numbers don't lie. Law enforcement has an incredibly high suicide rate.

Numbers don't like? What's that saying--"figures don't lie, but liars figure"?

According to Allen Kates, author of a book on police and PTDS, n 1997, (according to the Census Bureau), the general population experienced 20.2 suicides per 100,000 people. For the same year, according to the same source, the suicide rate for police officers was 18.1. He goes on to say that overall, statistics are inconclusive.

Naga Sadow, what's your source for the claim for an "incredibly high" suicide rate for law enforcement?

John C. Randolph | June 1, 2008, 10:10am | #

So, sadism is the new standard for propaganda?

-jcr

Elemenope | June 1, 2008, 10:39am | #

parse --

Call it pension fraud, if you wanna, but there is a decently well-reported tendency for cops who have suicided to have their deaths reported as an "accident" so that the widow and kids get covered by any pension and/or life insurance that normally doesn't pay out in the event of a suicide. Police are in a unique position to be able to manipulate facts like this and CYA.

I like to call it "compassionate corruption". Now if only they could be not douches to the little people, we could get somewhere.

The Wine Commonsewer | June 1, 2008, 11:13am | #

This is definitely over the top but I'll bet most parents are okay with it.

Secondly, who thought this through? How many times do you think MADD and the CHP can pull this off before the word gets around? Once, that's how many times. The public school community is a vast network and every kid knows some other kid's little brother or sister. Word travels like a prairie fire. Next time an idiot cop drops a rose on a "dead" kid's chair somebody in the class will activate a whoopee cushion, or belch, or yawn, or giggle.

If you want to play Scared Straight with the kids, why not use real stuff like they did when I was a victim of Traffic School (in lieu of a big fine and points on your record). We got to see movies of actual accidents, drunk driving and otherwise. It was so cool, they spared no details, there was blood and bodies and, Dude, it was a mess.

Was it effective? I doubt it.

Episiarch | June 1, 2008, 11:19am | #

TWC, I think this would work.

red green | June 1, 2008, 11:26am | #

There are 1oo% too many law enforcers in our schools. And what are we to think of Clinton/Obamas suggestion of 100,000 more cops? My feeling is ,more cops,more problems.

parse | June 1, 2008, 11:36am | #

Call it pension fraud, if you wanna, but there is a decently well-reported tendency for cops who have suicided to have their deaths reported as an "accident" so that the widow and kids get covered by any pension and/or life insurance that normally doesn't pay out in the event of a suicide.

Where is it reported?

I'm not making claims about the frequency of cop suicide. I'm asking people who want to make claims about it to document their assertions.

xcore | June 1, 2008, 11:56am | #

Hmm. I wonder what is next? Perhaps after students nationwide catch on to this practice, MADD will suggest that students should actually be murdered and their deaths attributed to drunk driving during the presentation- because the greater good will ultimately be served.

Elemenope | June 1, 2008, 11:58am | #

Parse, let us unravel this fangzong fengkuang de jie, shall we?

At 9:51, you quote approvingly the following to rebut Naga Sadow's assertion:

According to Allen Kates, author of a book on police and PTDS, n 1997, (according to the Census Bureau), the general population experienced 20.2 suicides per 100,000 people. For the same year, according to the same source, the suicide rate for police officers was 18.1.

OK, but then you go on to state that:

He goes on to say that overall, statistics are inconclusive.

If you are using both of these statements to bolster your criticism of Naga Sadow's comment, then you are presenting a standard for evidence that is epistemologically insurmountable, becasue it requires evidentiary support and then degrades the utility of such support all in one stroke.

Then, in a fit of hilarity you demand evidentiary citations for my assertions, even after asserting via Mr. Kates that statistics are, indeed, inconclusive.

What would you have us do? We make an assertion, you reply with "support it!" and then tack on an assertion that support is useless.

This of course is predicated on the assumption that you actually cited Mr. Kates because you approve of his conclusions, and not because you are a budding degenerate sophist. I'm willing to go with the charitable assumption that you in fact were asserting that in good faith.

Episiarch | June 1, 2008, 12:07pm | #

LMNOP, you seem to be the rare person who becomes more eloquent when they are stoned. So it was wake and bake today, then?

Elemenope | June 1, 2008, 12:21pm | #

So it was wake and bake today, then?

LOL, no, not today. Why do you ask?

Episiarch | June 1, 2008, 12:27pm | #

I just found your response to parse to be reminiscent of shit I used to say when high.

Elemenope | June 1, 2008, 12:38pm | #

So you must also be one of those rare folks who wax eloquent while baked, eh?

Bill Cooke | June 1, 2008, 12:45pm | #

It would have been funny had someone not found out that this was a hoax and shot one of the "deceased" students because he thought the student was a zombie.

Episiarch | June 1, 2008, 1:31pm | #

So you must also be one of those rare folks who wax eloquent while baked, eh?

I refuse to answer this question on the grounds that it may incriminate me.

liberty mike | June 1, 2008, 1:38pm | #

Red Green-

You can be more assertive. It is more than just your feeling. More cops equal more problems.

Judi Hartwell | June 1, 2008, 2:31pm | #

My EX is a COP...but certainly no asset to his profession by any means. The fact he left me and our son,who was 6 years old at the time, for a 17 y/o butt-ugly bimbo from hell EX was 38 at the time) and has refused to speak to our son who is now 18, for the past 10 years says it all. He later married this "kid" who now is a COP even though she had threatened to KILL my young son and me.

Go Figure.

But not ALL COPS are like this Newberry guy or my EX. Few and far between as they may be, some are truly dedicated and frustrated with their jobs.

Officer Newberry and MADD clearly went beyond the point of REASON.

As I stated earlier, my son and his classmates REALLY lost a classmate just two weeks ago TODAY...from a motorcycle accident in which NO DRUGS OR ALCOHOL were involved. This young man was due to graduate from high school June 9, 2008. He was also a volunteer firefighter.

Their REAL GRIEF is beyond words. I pray they do not hear of this story.

Nathan | June 1, 2008, 3:21pm | #

The deeper problem here is the way law enforcement has come to hold the people of the country in contempt. Their heart is often in the right place, but they don't respect the people they serve anymore. Consequently, we get officers saying things like "if I told you the truth it would go in one ear and out the other.You idiots are too easily distracted by shiny objects on Youtube." Few things will insulate people from your message like condescension.

J sub D | June 1, 2008, 3:41pm | #

I refuse to answer this question on the grounds that it may incriminate me.

Nah. While often coherent, you are never eloquent. :-)

parse | June 1, 2008, 3:47pm | #

Elemenope, you claimed a decently well-reported phenomenon. I asked you to cite some of the reports. Feel free to to cite them or to continue to avoid the question with suspicions about my motives for asking, whichever seems more useful to you.

For the record, I don't know whether rates of law enforcement suicide are "incredibly high" or not. Kates' conclusion--based on some evidence that they are not, and other evidence to the contrary, and the difficulty in evaluating the evidence that exists, strikes me as reasonable. If you have data that demonstrates otherwise, I'd be genuinely interested in seeing it.

Robin | June 1, 2008, 4:04pm | #

I think the tort of intentional infliction of emotional shock would be easy to prove on these facts, the problem would be damages, which would likely be very minimal.

It's interesting that there is virtually no support to be found in these comments for the actions of the police. I'm cheered that I'm apparently not the only one disgusted with their antics.

Eddie | June 1, 2008, 7:14pm | #

GAA!!! if I had a nickle for every time I faked my death....

Sparky | June 1, 2008, 7:40pm | #

"If you want to play Scared Straight with the kids, why not use real stuff like they did when I was a victim of Traffic School"

They could show the best traffic school movie ever, "Road Rage: Death Flips the Finger."
("So when you go out for a drive, remember to leave your murderous anger where it belongs -- at home.")

http://www.snpp.com/episodes/AABF10

shecky | June 1, 2008, 9:19pm | #

This reminds me of a very amusing short snippet on This American Life where the theme was "Summer Camp". The segment was some folks sharing their summer camp stories, specifically what was described as a "left wing Zionist" summer camp, and it's rather dramatic lesson on anti semitic persecution. You can hear the story here, at about the 21 minute mark(click on the "Full Episode" link to hear). Actually the whole hour long episode is worth a listen, but the relevant story is a couple minutes long. What kind of nut thinks it's useful to scare the fuck out of kids this way?

Hat Pines | June 1, 2008, 9:36pm | #

The real lesson the kids learn is that it's okay for authority figures to lie, as long they think it's for your own good.

So when they hear that the Ziosupremacist Stuart Cohen lied about the WMD's to trick the country into going to war, the students will have no problem with that becuase it was for the good of the country.

Michael Ejercito | June 1, 2008, 9:40pm | #

It's interesting that there is virtually no support to be found in these comments for the actions of the police. I'm cheered that I'm apparently not the only one disgusted with their antics.

Could they not use the very real case of Princess Diana, who died eleven years ago?

swillfredo pareto | June 1, 2008, 9:44pm | #

Its title refers to the frequency in which a person somewhere in the country dies in an alcohol-related traffic accident.

And to put a shiny capstone on this nonsense, the title of the program overstates annual alcohol-related traffic deaths by about 100%. Of course truth is the least important component in this theater of the absurd.

the innominate one | June 1, 2008, 10:51pm | #

lmnop:

Here is a lesson in statistics and semantics.

The statement "He goes on to say that overall, statistics are inconclusive." should be read as "He goes on to say that overall, [the] statistics [on this topic] are inconclusive [because the difference between 18.1 suicides per 100,000 individuals and 20.2 suicides per 100,000 individuals isn't large enough to draw any strong conclusions]."

Now, can you back up your claim of falsification of cause of death for cop suicides with any citation at all?

IMHO, your statement is that of an unbelievably ignorant jackass.

Elemenope | June 1, 2008, 10:57pm | #

The statement "He goes on to say that overall, statistics are inconclusive." should be read as "He goes on to say that overall, [the] statistics [on this topic] are inconclusive [because the difference between 18.1 suicides per 100,000 individuals and 20.2 suicides per 100,000 individuals isn't large enough to draw any strong conclusions]."

You should give Bible lessons, what with interpolation skills like that!

Did you read the book? I fucking doubt it. In that case, you have no frickin' clue how that "should be read". I'd say something about unbelievably ignorant jackasses, but you already tarred that feather grandly.

Art-P.O.G. | June 1, 2008, 11:42pm | #

Could they not use the very real case of Princess Diana, who died eleven years ago?No, because young people are incapable of understanding history.

Douglas Gray | June 1, 2008, 11:48pm | #

This sort of condescention is an immediate turn off for teens.

The Wine Commonsewer | June 2, 2008, 12:07am | #

Princess Who?

:-)

The Wine Commonsewer | June 2, 2008, 12:08am | #

LMNOP ran outta brownies I see. :-)

The Wine Commonsewer | June 2, 2008, 12:28am | #

the title of the program overstates annual alcohol-related traffic deaths by about 100%.

Swillfredo, nice point. I took the title at face value. After seeing your comment I looked it up. Truth is that the title overstates the problem by almost 200%.

I was actually surprised at how much alcohol related traffic deaths have come down in the last 20 years. And that isn't per mile driven, it's actual numbers, meaning that the death rate has dropped more than it appears in that there are so many more people driving than there were 20 years ago.

Jim Walsh | June 2, 2008, 12:35am | #

The real lesson the kids learn is that it's okay for authority figures to lie, as long they think it's for your own good.

Hell, they're learning that from the current administration...

Kaganspawn | June 2, 2008, 1:47am | #

lmnop

I say nothing of the allegations regarding your possible bakedness, but respond that it would not be so easy to get past qualified immunity here. The cop and administrator would testify that they did not intend to shock the students enough to inflict (lasting) harm. Emotional distress cases are about the degree of outrageousness. The "eggshell plaintiff" rule is strong in these cases. The defense that the faked death report was for an educational purpose (yes, for the children) would mitigate how outrageous a jury would find the act. Of course the action was despicable but the jurors are after all not reasonoids but sheeple.

Art-P.O.G. | June 2, 2008, 6:18am | #

It can be bad to project the mentality of a completely mature person onto a minor, but these are high school kids. I would like it if parents were outraged whenever the 'establishment' condescends to their children.*


*This isn't really, in my mind an "if we can only reach just one" sort of scenario, because they willfully manipulated a whole crapload of kids.

parse | June 2, 2008, 7:41am | #

Elemenope, any luck finding those decently well-reported studies you mentioned?

Nigel Watt | June 2, 2008, 9:35am | #

They did this at my high school in Dallas a few years ago (maybe 3?), except they staged the accident with real cars. Everybody knew it was fake beforehand, so nobody who wasn't a troglodyte was affected.

R C Dean | June 2, 2008, 10:10am | #

Hell, they're learning that from the current administration...

And have learned it from prior administrations, and will learn it from future administration, forever and ever, amen.

moo | June 2, 2008, 12:51pm | #

re: Episiarch- RICO law deals with corrupt organizations, not calling an officer's family and telling them that he died.

Demonstrations like this are the same as the boy who cried wolf. We say that kids today are numb to their surroundings. Wouldn't this just add to it? Show them a fake death. Tell them "Just Kidding, but it COULD have been real" then expect them to react when it does happen.

Doesn't make sense.

Jstpasngthru | June 3, 2008, 10:45am | #

You guys still don't get it, do you? We can tell you til we're blue in the face about drunk driving and still every minute someone dies. If we "adults" now have to result to "shocking" you into thinking twice about it, then so be it b/c I'd rather my sons freak out for a day or so and really THINK about it than experience for real that a friend(s) died; or worse, I get "the call." Sorry some of you feel it's all so "cliche" or that lying isn't the way to go, but THINK about WHY we go through all the trouble...in the horrible end you lose a friend; we lose our child.

speedwell | June 3, 2008, 1:18pm | #

Jstpasngthru, we get it... you'd better believe we get it... we get that you're willing to put your children through torture to save them from death. You're just one step away from the woman who killed her kids to save them from Hell.

emopants | June 3, 2008, 3:16pm | #

they did this at my highschool in 1995-1999. First thing I did when I got home that day: got really drunk.

no one was shocked, and no one paid attention. even the teachers were bored.


besides, they didn't do that when students were *really* killed by drunk drivers.

Phil E. Drifter | June 7, 2008, 8:31am | #

I am absolutely livid about this. I just got done watching channel 6 (ABC in Philly) and some fucking n*gger (hey, just kidding, just like your tactic) was defending CHP's doing this.

Of course, the guy interviewing this bitch never used the word 'lie,' shame for him, he asked 'won't this damage your credibility because of this...(and i'm waiting for him to say lie) hoax?'

I swear to god if they ever did this in front of my kid and i found out about it, i would go stormin' in and threaten to kill every one of those motherfuckers. (Hey, i'm not actually going to do it, i'm just trying to prove a point, like these fucking retards.)

Phil E. Drifter | June 7, 2008, 8:34am | #

Let me just add that someone dies in a DUI every 15 minutes because THAT'S THE ONLY DRUG WE'RE ALLOWED TO USE, and none of the illegal drugs I've tried (and I've tried cocaine, psychedelic mushshrooms ('shrooms), k, just about everything but heroin or meth, and not a single one i've ever done was nearly as dangerous as alcohol.

Wanna know why these drugs are illegal? Because minorities brought them with them when they emigrated to this country.

Read all about it at http://www.tinyurl.com/1mn

Phil E. Drifter | June 7, 2008, 8:53am | #

Uncle Sam outlawed them so he could stuff his prisons with 'nonviolent offenders' so they could use them for prison labor, since the south lost the civil war and slavery was outlawed in 1865. And it holds true. (You can't be blatantly racist so white people get busted in these victimless crimes too, but rest assured they're white people who don't matter.)

I wrote a letter to the Philly Metro in Nov. Below I will write it's transcript, since it's only 145 words (they also changed my title, which *was* 'Open Letter to Mayor-Elect Michael Nutter':

Our drug laws are unconstitutional
Want to drastically decrease murders in Philly? Stop arresting nonviolent people simply for possession of "controlled" substances. These laws are unconstitutional, outlawing plants it ehe most asinine idea ever conceived, and the truth is plants can't be patented, that's one reason they were outlawed. Another reason is because their use (opium, cannabis a.k.a. "marijuana," cocaine, 'shrooms) were minority habits, NOT because they were more dangerous than alcohol; in fact, none of them are nearly as dangerous. Outlawing them gave Uncle Sam an excuse to stuff his prisons with minorities. To quote Marc Mauer from "Race to Incarcerate," "In 1995, African-Americans made up 13% of the [US] population and 15% of all drug users, yet they comprised 33% of people arrested, 53% of those convicted and 74% of those sentenced to prison for drug possession."
------------------
Your tax dollars at work, folks.

You can see the jpg of it at http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj48/phillydrifter/drugs/071117PhillyMetro.jpg

Feel free to contact me at phillydrifter (at) yahoo dot com, or subscribe to my blog at http://blog.myspace.com/sexg0d (yeah, i know, it's not what people expect; they see my blog and it's all about 'Things corporate media won't tell you: It's not a war on (some) drugs, it's a war on minorities.'

GGIrl | June 13, 2008, 1:35am | #

seeing the real thing will scare you straight. Going to 4 funerals in 1 week will scare you straight. Watching a mother being pulled off her 19 year old sons casket will scare you straight. Maybe if they had seen that they wouldnt have driven that night. maybe they would have called someone. Whatever it takes to keep that from happening again.