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Wright Speaks, Democrats Yawn

From week to week the Gallup and Rasmussen tracking polls can be lifesavers for that wholesome mass of Americans who don't want Barack Obama to be president. When the Jeremiah Wright videos were god-DAMN-ing their way across TV screens, the polls showed a big Obama dip, leading head Hillary Clinton saboteur (to her campaign, mostly) Mark Penn to gloating:
A look at the polls shows that Sen. Obama’s lead nationally with Democrats has been evaporating. The Gallup daily tracking poll shows Hillary leading Sen. Obama among Democrats by 7 points, and the latest Zogby/Reuters poll has Sen. Obama’s lead down from 14 points last month to just 3 points now. This suggests a strong swing in momentum in the race to Hillary since the Texas and Ohio primaries earlier this month.
That was a week and a half ago. This weekend's polls show Obama driving out front again. Gallup shows Obama leading Clinton 52 to 42 percent. Rasmussen shows Obama up 47 to 42 percent, and his positive-negative numbers (which Rasmussen has always clocked higher than most pollsters, and which had ducked into negative territory), are narrowly positive. Clinton's are heavily negative. Obama's rebound against John McCain isn't happening so quickly, but he's doing better than Clinton once again. Did the Wright story have no effect?

Well, it did—as much as it could have without some cultural underpinnings. Stanley Kurtz stumbled across something profound here.
Conservatives may think the revelations of Obama’s formative radicalism and his relationship with Wright are sure to sink him. While they may ultimately have that effect, the outcome is by no means certain. Contrary to liberal denials, Obama has been damaged by the Wright affair. Yet it’s also true that association with leftist and academic radicalism is no longer disturbing to large segments of the country.
Kurtz allows that "the culture is changing," and he thinks the media is pushing it. I agree, and the scope of that cultural change is what's saving Obama. I've been reading Rick Perlstein's upcoming Nixonland this week, and it makes sense to me why Obama's radical black connection isn't hurting him like the Victor Davis Hansons or Mark Steyns would expect. People just aren't that afraid of black radicalism anymore. Forty years ago white voters were literally, keep-your-gun-next-to-your-bed worried about an armed black revolt. When Stokley Carmichael would rant about what was coming to the white man, their minds would light up with images of Watts, Newark, Harlem. Perlstein quotes one hapless Iowa Democrat, who lost his seat in 1966, talking about a town hall meeting where constituents informed him that vicious blacks were going to attack Des Moines when they arrived from Chicago "on motorcyles."

I'm sure the Wright story damaged Obama with some white ethnic voters. But ripped out of a context where the sermons could have actually threatened whites, as opposed to making them feel uncomfortable, they were never going to sink him if he handled them well. And he did handle them well.
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Comments to "Wright Speaks, Democrats Yawn":

Verbal Kent | March 31, 2008, 9:44am | #

Hand me the keys you fucking cocksucker.

Rick Perlstein | March 31, 2008, 9:45am | #

"on motorcycles": that was poor John Schmidhauser, whom I interviewed, in Santa Monica, in his very happy retirement from a distinguished career as a legal scholar. I'm so pleased you pulled out that story. It really shows how utterly blindsided liberals were by the conservative backlash.

Things are different now. The old stories no longer signify. Now it's the right that's getting blindsided...

Episiarch | March 31, 2008, 9:52am | #

Wright Speaks, Democrats Yawn

Considering that the GOP hasn't brought all its guns to bear on anybody yet, I wouldn't be too presumptive about yawning. If Obama gets the nomination they're going to come down hard on him with both feet and I don't think Obama's shining armor will stand up to that. The Dems will start to take notice then.

The guy's a great orator and has great charisma, but he's relatively new to the game.

I'm thinking more and more that McCain will win no matter who he goes up against. With Obama, he'll beat him up over all the little things that an be dug up, from Wright to lack of experience to whatever else comes out (there will be more). With Hillary, her negatives are too powerful. Plus the internecine Dem battle will alienate the supporters of whoever loses, making space for McCain.

Oh well, lots more war for us.

JanetP | March 31, 2008, 9:52am | #

There is nothing that can be said to justify or explain Wright's hateful speech. It's sorta like the line in the country song: "Who're you gonna believe: me or your lyin' eyes?" We've all seen the tapes, saw his demeanor, and heard his words. It is what it is.

Apparently Obama has such strong emotional ties to this racist hate-mongering preacher that he is unable, or unwilling, to acknowledge that Wright's influence is inappropriate and indeed harmful.

If the American Citizens elect Obama despite the knowledge of Wright's influence over him it will be an acceptance, and a tacit blessing, of the union.

Cab | March 31, 2008, 9:53am | #

Wright hurt Obama then Bosnian sniper fire hurt Clinton, which put them back to square one.

Elemenope | March 31, 2008, 10:16am | #

Here's where Oprah could actually really help him. He and she are both considered by most to be "reasonable black people" and they both attended the "crazy black church" for many years.

If white people trust Oprah (and they do, for whatever reason) enough to believe that she isn't all scary and radical despite association with Wright, it is likely that Obama can use this to extend to him, especially since he has never said anything scary or radical himself.

It certainly isn't a radioactive handshake, nor a Willie Horton, and Republicans are gonna look like racist idiots if thy push it too far.

------

- Do you realize what would happen if they hook hands?

-The fourth dimension will collapse in upon itself and destroy everything. You stupid bitch.

Elemenope | March 31, 2008, 10:17am | #

if they shook hands. Damn it.

Bryan | March 31, 2008, 10:20am | #

For some of us, this Wright thing further helped Obama. Not for the message that Wright delivered, but for the response of Obama. He spoke to us about race without dumbing it down and without falling into stereotypes. It was a real response that showed that he believed the American people could be trusted with nuance. It is appealing.

joe | March 31, 2008, 10:24am | #

It's unusual to see someone try to start a racial panic and fail. I don't know if I've ever seen it not work before this.

Obama's 52% is the highest he ever scored in that poll, as is his 10% lead. The Speech not only turned around his slide, it is proving to be a greater benefit than the Wright affair was a detriment.

Ask yourself this: have you seen ANYONE making gloomy predictions about what the Wright connection will do to Obama in the general election who wasn't also predicting that it would sink him in his race vs. Clinton?

R C Dean | March 31, 2008, 10:24am | #

Here's where Oprah could actually really help him. He and she are both considered by most to be "reasonable black people" and they both attended the "crazy black church" for many years.

Except Oprah left Rev. Wright's flock. If she speaks out on this, it only highlights Obama's refusal to leave.

Dr. Freud | March 31, 2008, 10:25am | #

The other thing is that while Wright is a clown, he said some things that Americans need to hear. In particular, the fact that we weren't attacked on 9/11 because evildoers hate our freedoms but for other reasons that aren't so comfortable to talk about.

Seitz | March 31, 2008, 10:27am | #

Hey, from what I hear, that JanetP is a real racist, hatemongering bitch. Of course, I base that on selected moments from about 1/100th of 1% of her life, but hey, I know what I saw.

Wright will go on Oprah, he'll explain or answer for his comments, and the only people up in arms about him will be people who would never vote for Obama under any circumstances.

That, of course, doesn't mean they won't find something else. If it hadn't been Wright, it would have been something else. Someday, the stupid Democrats will understand that they cannot inoculate themselves from attacks. The Republicans will find something, and if they can't, they'll make something up.

joe | March 31, 2008, 10:30am | #

Bryan writes: He spoke to us about race without dumbing it down and without falling into stereotypes. It was a real response that showed that he believed the American people could be trusted with nuance. It is appealing.

Elemenope writes: Republicans are gonna look like racist idiots if thy push it too far.

I think these two ideas work in synergy. The nobility and appeal of the ideas in Obama's speech, combined with the noticeable lack of politico b.s. spin, just makes the Jonah Goldberg/Victor David Hansen/Bill Kristol sneering at the speech and the idea look 1) mean and ungracious and 2) like dishonest campaign flacks.

You know those people in the spin room after a debate who say things like "Governor Bush cleaned John Kerry's clock" and "This was the debate in which Congressman Tancredo really broke though?" That's what people gainsaying the speech look like, and yes, we can absolutely count on the Republicans pushing it too far. What else are they going to talk about?

stephen the goldberger | March 31, 2008, 10:33am | #

I think a lot of this is also the result of the internet and the 24 hour news cycle. People have ridiculously short memories now. The wright story is stale after only one week.

Hopefully enough people will realize that the current financial crisis and what is to be done about it is of far greater import. Although my mother seems to still go on and on about Michelle Obama's "first time proud of america" comment, probably the lamest bit of mudslinging this election cycle. So who knows what will stick come november.

Episiarch | March 31, 2008, 10:35am | #

That's what people gainsaying the speech look like, and yes, we can absolutely count on the Republicans pushing it too far. What else are they going to talk about?

As Seitz said:

If it hadn't been Wright, it would have been something else. Someday, the stupid Democrats will understand that they cannot inoculate themselves from attacks. The Republicans will find something, and if they can't, they'll make something up.

The GOP hasn't even gotten started tuning up the Dem nominee yet, because there isn't one. They are sitting back and watching the Obama-Clinton cage match, to their amusement. Once somebody emerges victorious, they are going to beat on them like a narc at a biker rally.

Rimfax | March 31, 2008, 10:37am | #

Kurtz allows that "the culture is changing," and he thinks the media is pushing it.

Following it? Yes. Nurturing it? Maybe. Pushing it? No.

In that media success relies on popularity, even in the blogosphere, the room to "push" your consumers is minute. You either follow from the front, like the silverback that cuts through the bush to the front when the troop changes direction without him, in order to maintain your popularity. Or you carve your own path and hope for fans. You can try to push and you're popularity will suffer for it,...unless your fans are already there waiting for you.

joe | March 31, 2008, 10:38am | #

BTW, as significant as the trends in the Democratic race are, the matchups vs. McCain tell an important story, too.

Starting about March 5, when McCain wrapped up his nomination while Clinton and Obama kept flailing at each other, he began pulling ahead of both of them. The Gallup tracker shows a very slow but undeniable trend of McCain gradually moving from about 3 points behind both of them to about 3 points ahead.

What's significant here is the dog that didn't bark. There was no change in the trend when the Wright story broke - the same gradual decline that Obama was experiencing before the flap continued when the story broke, and when Obama gave his speech. Ditto Hillary vs. McCain.

This would seem to suggest that, while the Wright affair changed things in the Democratic race, the people who are still down on Obama for this are people who were never going to vote for the Democrat in the first place.

Rimfax | March 31, 2008, 10:38am | #

"you're" --> "your"

I am my own pedant.

Vermont Gun Owner | March 31, 2008, 10:39am | #

The guy's a great orator and has great charisma

Everyone keeps saying this, but every speech that I watch him give makes me oppose him even more. And it's not just the liberal content; I'm not sure what about his style that bugs me, but I think it might be that he is trying too hard to be charismatic. I don't give a shit about charisma, just talk about the issues.

Disclaimer: I haven't seen many of his recent speeches. I saw enough already to know I'm not going to vote for him. So, he may have changed his style.

Disclaimer II: I have defended Obama from a coworker who thought he was a Muslim who had said he would swear on the Koran if was sworn in (not that it did much good with her).

Elemenope | March 31, 2008, 10:39am | #

What else are they going to talk about?

If I were a democrat, I'd be scared to death of McCain pushing his whole "National Greatness" line. It's sort of tough arguing against a guy who says nothing but "Isn't America great; hey, aren't YOU great!" Sure, it's substanceless, but what are ya gonna do...say in a presidential election that America ISN'T great?

The conversation goes something like this:

McCain: America is great, and so we'll win, as we always do!

Donkey: Hey, what about Vietnam? We didn't win that one.

McCain: (pained far away look on McCain's face...)

And then pundits screech that they are attacking McCain's service and character.

joe | March 31, 2008, 10:42am | #

The GOP hasn't even gotten started tuning up the Dem nominee yet, because there isn't one. They are sitting back and watching the Obama-Clinton cage match, to their amusement.

Not so. The GOP has been training their fire on Obama for some time, since it became obvious Hillary couldn't win, and even before. Limbaugh trying to freep the primaries, the old Barack HUSSEIN Obama emails, Richard Mellon Scaife meeting with Hillary Clinton, Joe Scarborough still flacking the Wright story while minimizing the Tuzla flap - the GOP are doing whatever they can to keep Obama weak, because they know they're going to face him in the fall, and because they know he is the odds-on favorite to win.

Sitting back? Not hardly.

Elemenope | March 31, 2008, 10:44am | #

Disclaimer II: I have defended Obama from a coworker who thought he was a Muslim who had said he would swear on the Koran if was sworn in (not that it did much good with her).

Me too. Twice (with two different people). And I work in a place that has a half-dozen employees, and we're in New England of all places.

I don't get how people can be that cluelessly factlessly fucking stupid. Or maybe I do get it, but somehow I don't *want* to get it. Maybe it disappears into that same region of the brain that tells me I shouldn't make words up.

joe | March 31, 2008, 10:44am | #

Think we'll see TallDave on this thread?

heh

Indeed.

damon | March 31, 2008, 10:45am | #

It would be really interesting to see the GOP use the "let's not dumb this down" speech tactic while talking about the economy and Obama's economic policies (nightmarish plans). I'd be interested to know if that kind of plain (and potentially complex) discussion would wake some people up to the almost assured nasty repercussions of Obama's economic policy stances.

I'm certainly not someone who would vote for Obama, I've read too many of his policy statements and platform positions, but I'm sort of shocked at how powerful his rhetoric is at soothing people. For instance, I don't agree with Joe that Obama is pointedly anti-spin, I think his spin is more polished and more subtle, and in that.... far more disturbing.

Mo | March 31, 2008, 10:46am | #

I like how people here are claiming that Obama is the only one without skeletons in his closet that won't stand up to partisan attacks. Do you really think that McCain's immune to dirty tricks?

Matt J | March 31, 2008, 10:47am | #

McCain will say something crazy. Give him time.

MikeC | March 31, 2008, 10:48am | #

McCain will say something crazy. Give him time.

Like confusing Sunni and Shia and saying that Iran is in bed with UBL?

Episiarch | March 31, 2008, 10:49am | #

Sitting back? Not hardly.

I don't know, joe. Do you really think this is the worst the GOP can hit him with?

I think they've been active, but are holding back. Why look like attack dogs (more than usual) when Hillary is doing their dirty work for them? If she manages to land the nomination through whatever child-sacrifice methods are necessary, she will have done far more for the GOP cause than they could have hoped for, because huge numbers of Obama supporters will hate her.

If Obama gets the nom they're going to really come after him, but they're not going to waste it now when Hillary might finish him for them.

Matt J | March 31, 2008, 10:50am | #

And I work in a place that has a half-dozen employees, and we're in New England of all places.

Home of that racial utopia known as Boston. Can't see any reason they wouldn't like Obama.

Episiarch | March 31, 2008, 10:51am | #

McCain will say something crazy. Give him time.

McCain says crazy shit all the time and no one seems to notice.

damon | March 31, 2008, 10:52am | #

Just curious:

Is there anyone on this forum who believes they are either Libertarian or very libertarian leaning that is not taken aback by Obama's economic policy suggestions?

Call me a graduated libertarian, but I've always felt that economic liberty is the underpinning of social liberty. In that, despite my dislike of a huge chunk of McCain's positions, I currently support the man because his economic platform (although still a little odious) whafts less of sulfur and fire than Obama's.

I mean, when the chips are down and we have to press that touch-screen, there's no doubt that I'll be choosing between McCain and a third-party candidate. Obama won't even be on my radar.

How do other big L Libertarians and small L libertarians feel about that?

joe | March 31, 2008, 10:52am | #

damon,

Policy disagreements aside, I just don't see John McCain having the level of knowledge and insight into economic matters that Barack Obama brings to the issue of race relations.

You can tell from that speech that Obama has been honestly and thoughtfully contending with the complexity of that issue for a long time. I don't think the same can be said about John McCain and economic matters. He's basically outsourced his economic policy to some conservative DC lobbyist/think tank types, in order to get them behind him and because he just don't seem to know or care very much about economic policy.

MikeC | March 31, 2008, 10:55am | #

How do other big L Libertarians and small L libertarians feel about that?

This small L libertarian is slightly concerned about Obama's economic plans but I believe the cost of McCain's plans for a neverending war will cost far more than any of Obama's feel good initiatives, both in hard currency and in American lives.

Matt J | March 31, 2008, 10:55am | #

Obama is a political aikido master. I think his strength against the GOP will be his ability to redirect the energy of their attacks back on them. Hillary will meet force with force and in the process reaffirm every stereotype about her.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 10:59am | #

The problem for Obama is that he's considerably further from the center than McCain, and with a late August nomination it's going to be hard for him to tack toward the center in time to win.

The Wright thing barely scratches the surface of his vulnerability from the right.

damon | March 31, 2008, 11:00am | #

Joe,

That may be true, but a fool who comes to the right conclusion is wiser than a scholar who comes to the wrong conclusion.

I'd rather vote for McCain if his general philosophy leads him to a more libertarian policy outlook than vote for Obama who's thoughtful analysis leads him towards a lite-socialism outlook.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:02am | #

Policy disagreements aside, I just don't see John McCain having the level of knowledge and insight into economic matters that Barack Obama brings to the issue of race relations.

lawlz

Too bad he didn't share that "knowledge and insight" with his pastor.

Vermont Gun Owner | March 31, 2008, 11:05am | #

How do other big L Libertarians and small L libertarians feel about that?

Out of the scenarios that are possible, I hope McCain beats Obama because of the large number of people who seem to think Obama can do no wrong. McCain will face opposition from the Democratic Congress, meaning we won't get tons and tons of new spending programs. Hopefully, the Democrats will finally grow a pair, and stop the war. While there is a slim chance of this scenario, it is far more likely than Congress standing up to Obama's spending proposals.

That being said, I'm still not voting for McCain. I'm going third party.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:06am | #

You can tell from that speech that Obama has been honestly and thoughtfully contending with the complexity of that issue for a long time.

So homestly and thoughtfully that he sat in Rev Wright's "God Damn America" "U.S. of KKK" "white people made AIDS to kill blacks" church for 20 years.

Here, let me fix that:

You can tell from that speech that Obama has cynically taken whatever position on race was politically expedient at the time and dressed it up in flowery rhetoric.

Edward | March 31, 2008, 11:06am | #

Fear of blacks may not sink Obama, but as Ron Pual proved, it's a great fundraiser for libertarians.

joe | March 31, 2008, 11:07am | #

damon,

So how does a blogger who defines his conclusion score? ;-)

Anyway, I was actually replying to your 10:45 comment, about how interesting it would be if the GOP spoke to the public like adults about economics, the way Obama spoke to us like adults about race relations. It was just a coincidence that it appeared below your 10:52 comment.

Obama was able to score such a coup because 1) he had enough eyes on him and 2) he obviously has a deep and mature understanding of the matter.

McCain, as the GOP nominess, probably has a high enough profile, but he lacks the understanding. Other Republicans might have the understanding to pull off such a trick, but an economic speech by some Congressman or Governor isn't going to top 3 million views on You Tube.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:08am | #

True, and Obama's proved fear of whites can help launch a political career.

joe | March 31, 2008, 11:10am | #

lawlz

Is exactly the same thing TallDave wrote a week and half ago, when I said that the Wright flap and the speech were going to help Obama.

Keep pimping it, d00d! You've got your finger on the pulse of America.

Elemenope | March 31, 2008, 11:10am | #

Edward | March 31, 2008, 11:06am | #

He's Back! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! Dondero was getting so boring.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:12am | #

about how interesting it would be if the GOP spoke to the public like adults about economics

Oh please, a socialist is going to tell the right to be "adults" about ecnomics? LMAO This from the guy who calls Hayek and Friedman hacks.

The whole leftist philosophy of economic policy is built around an emotional appeal for the government to take care of people. It's practically the definition of infantilism.

Elemenope | March 31, 2008, 11:13am | #

True, and Obama's proved fear of whites can help launch a political career.

What the hell does this even *mean*?

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:16am | #

Is exactly the same thing TallDave wrote a week and half ago, when I said that the Wright flap and the speech were going to help Obama.

Dude, what world are you living in? Do you see a single poll that has Obama ahead of where he was pre-Wright in the general?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#charts

LMAO You can't see that big convergence where he hemorrhages votes to McCain? He went from up 6 to down 2.

Sheesh, I guess Obama-love is blind.

Sheesh, I guess

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:16am | #

True, and Obama's proved fear of whites can help launch a political career. What the hell does this even *mean*?

You do know Wright helped OBama get started in politics?

damon | March 31, 2008, 11:19am | #

Joe,

You're certainly right about Obama's eye-and-mind share.

McCain isn't an especially compelling speaker either. Having more affinity towards the right than the left, I have spent countless hours with my stomach in knots, bemoaning the apparent lack of willingness on the GOP's part to offer up candidates with strong vocabularies, solid rhetoric, and a commitment to engaging the intellect of voters. (Please, no jokes about "that doesn't exist in the GOP" etc.) I'm a fairly bright guy, and among my friends who are conservative I count several extremely intelligent individuals who's understanding of economic, fiscal, and foreign policy is detailed, nuanced, and extensive.

Of course, we do not constitute the majority, but I wish the GOP (and DNC for that matter) would not cede intellectualism in favor of dumbed-down rhetoric so easily.

I lived in Europe for nearly 16 years, and despite protestations of some of my American friends (who studied abroad for one or two semesters, living exclusively among hyper educated oxfordians and cambridgeans)I see no major difference in the intellectual capacity or knowledge of the common European and the common American. Yet, at least in the UK and Germany, politicians, even when pandering, tend to remain explicit, detailed, and intellectually challenging when speaking on issues of policy.

Having worked in politics here in the US, I'm well aware of the sound-bite strategy and the common belief among pundits that the US citizenry somewhat requires mono-syllabic utterances and easily-pronounceable words. I think this is bunk. Maybe common US voters are overly sensitive to perceived elitism or haughty language, but I would very much wish for more candidates who debate on an intellectual level above that of the average 9th Grade highschool debate team.

Obama, to his credit, is better than most, but I don't find him inspiring or even convincing, because I notice he conveniently sidesteps most opposing views rather than addressing them head on. As a previous poster mentioned, this akido-like ability is powerful, but to me ultimately unfulfilling and perhaps even sinister.

I won't pine here for British Parliament, but I would pine for similar discourse.

Maybe if our political culture where more one of debate rather than differentiation.... I'd like to think those are the same thing, but in practice perhaps they are not.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 11:19am | #

What no one mentioned is that McCains lead in the Rasmussen poll over Obama has been cut in half in the last week. The previous poll had him +10, now its +5.

damon | March 31, 2008, 11:20am | #

TallDave,

To my knowledge, I have never called Hayek a hack. Nor Friedman. I admire both.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:22am | #

Yeah, 10 was probably an outlier. 5 is probably about right.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:23am | #

Sorry, damon, I mistook that for a joe comment.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 11:24am | #

I wouldn't vote for Obama because I have any special love for him. Its the fact that the thought of John McCain having a nuclear arsenal scares the living daylights out of me.

joe | March 31, 2008, 11:27am | #

Keep laughing, TallDave. Maybe, someday, you'll actually turn out to be right about something.

You can't see that big convergence where he hemorrhages votes to McCain? You mean the one that started a week before the Wright story, a couple days after McCain wrapped up the nomination? Yes, genius, I'm the one who brought that up first. I guess you missed that part.

How's that "this will sink Obama" thing turning out? It's funny, he started trending upward at almost exactly the same time you declared him dead.

BTW, the RCP average has McCain up 0.2% in the general election. Not 2%. Quite the statistical genius, aren't you?

Episiarch | March 31, 2008, 11:28am | #

If Obama really wants to win he should change from aikido to Weirding Way style.

JanetP | March 31, 2008, 11:29am | #

Seitz | March 31, 2008, 10:27am
"Hey, from what I hear, that JanetP is a real racist, hatemongering bitch. Of course, I base that on selected moments from about 1/100th of 1% of her life, but hey, I know what I saw."

You certainly sound like you could be a disciple of Jeremiah Wright. My guess would be that a generation of children under his tutelage would sound just as hate-filled and disrespectful as you.

damon | March 31, 2008, 11:29am | #

Episiarch,

"Put your hand... in the BOX"

joe | March 31, 2008, 11:30am | #

damon,

Yet, at least in the UK and Germany, politicians, even when pandering, tend to remain explicit, detailed, and intellectually challenging when speaking on issues of policy.

I think this has to do with their P.R. systems promoting "responsible parties" intead of "catch-all parties."

When you have to try to make your message appeal to 60% of the public, you're dealing with an audience that is going to include people with different viewpoints on issues, so the smart money is on avoiding statements that come down strongly on one side or the other. When you're just hoping to build on your party'ls 39% plurality, you can push a substantive message with a discernable ideology.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 11:31am | #

McCain needs the support of Republicans to energize enough voters to go to the polls and support him against whomever the Democratic nominee is.

Among my very Republican relatives his support ranges from grudging to non-existent to active opposition.

He does fairly well with independents and moderate Democrats, but I don't think this will be enough without a strong Republican turn out.

If enough Republicans are ambivalent enough and stay home on election day, the Democrat wins. Fund raising currently seems to point to that being the most likely outcome.

joe | March 31, 2008, 11:31am | #

My guess would be that a generation of children under his tutelage would sound just as hate-filled and disrespectful as you.

Now get off my lawn.

Punks.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 11:32am | #

Yeah, McCain's fund raising is anemic. He could only afford to run his first general election ad in one small state (New Mexico).

Abdul | March 31, 2008, 11:33am | #

McCain has said that's he's not going to use the Wright stuff. If it comes back in the general election, it'll be unaffiliated with the official campaign. Obama would be smart to buy some insurance against the charge of anti-Americanism. Maybe a couple flag pins, burning a Noam Chomsky book, shoulder checking Sean Penn into rush hour traffic, etc.

That said, I don't think polls show that America is unconcerned about Obama's connection to Wright. The polls reflect that between Wright and Hillary's Tuzla bullet-dodging fantasies, the public thinks the latter were far more revealing about the candidate's character.

Episiarch | March 31, 2008, 11:33am | #

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

If Obama recites that litany and hires Paul Atreides as his campaign manager, I will vote for him, solely to see a campaign managed by someone whose name is a killing word.

joe | March 31, 2008, 11:35am | #

N.M.,

If enough Republicans are ambivalent enough and stay home on election day, the Democrat wins.

This is one area where the Wright flap could help McCain - giving the Republican base a reason to go to the polls.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 11:38am | #

Some case studies.

Father-in-law, Korean war & Vietnam vet, always voted Republican. Is now saying he will vote for Nadar as a protest vote (Ventura would probably get it if he enters).

Aunt...has always voted Republican, mainly due to pro-life plank. Has declared for Obama

Mother, very very very staunch Republican...thinks McCain can't handle the economy, but may be the lesser of evils. Not impressed with Obama, hates Clinton. She'll vote for McCain against Clinton, and probably against Obama. Is disgusted with the choices.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:38am | #

LOL joe, I'll stop laughing when you stop saying such hilarious things.

You mean the one that started a week before the Wright story, a couple days after McCain wrapped up the nomination?

Uh no. The polls break precisely when the scandal does.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#charts

How's that "this will sink Obama" thing turning out? It's funny, he started trending upward at almost exactly the same time you declared him dead

I never said it would sink him or declared him dead. I said it would hurt him, and it has.

Your bizarre assertion that the Wright scandal helps Obama is supported by nothing except the voices in your head.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:41am | #

Its the fact that the thought of John McCain having a nuclear arsenal scares the living daylights out of me.

I miss the old Cesar that used to complain we weren't focusing on the issues.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 11:41am | #

War and Peace is sort of the biggest issue there is, Dave.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 11:42am | #

In other words, no one is going to die over what Wright said.

joe | March 31, 2008, 11:42am | #

LOL joe, I'll stop laughing when you stop saying such hilarious things.

You wrote that a week ago, when I said that Obama was coming back and the story was over.

Uh no. The polls break precisely when the scandal does.

No, they don't show that. It's tough to see on the RCP poll, because the dates are compressed so much and the line is thick. The Gallup tracker shows it much more clearly.

I said it would hurt him, and it has. That must be why he is at his highest number ever in the Gallup poll, with his largest lead ever.

Because of my head. Face it, TallDave. You bet against the American people, and lost. You assumed the public could be stampeded with a racial panic, and you were wrong.

God bless America.

Episiarch | March 31, 2008, 11:45am | #

Here's a bit of advice for both joe and Dave:

Don't trust polls. They're, like, totally wrong and stuff like, all the time.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 11:46am | #

To add to the case studies.

My mother would contribute money to the Republican nominee if it were not McCain.

She is not contributing to the RNC this year.

She is the base that funds the machine that McCain would need to compete against Obama.

Money doesn't decide elections on its own, but McCain will need some serious skills to get heard above the message that Obama's war chest will buy.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:48am | #

You wrote that a week ago, when I said that Obama was coming back and the story was over.

And here we are still talking about that "dead story." Reality 1, Joe 0.

No, they don't show that

Yes, they do. To call that a coincidence is pretty ridiculous even for you.

That must be why he is at his highest number ever in the Gallup poll, with his largest lead ever.

LOL Are you high? He's down 3 to McCain. The last Gallup had him up 2.

Face it, TallDave. You bet against the American people, and lost.

LOL I'm betting a good chunk the American people are too smart to vote for a candidate a 20-year relationship with the likes of Wright and his loony hate sermons, whatever his race. You seem to they're too dumb to notice.

Kolohe | March 31, 2008, 11:50am | #

Epi-
And I guess one of Barak's and Michelle's kids will be the actual God-Emperor?

Thinking about it, it sometimes does seem like Obama is of House Atreides, Clinton is House Harkkonen, and McCain is House Corrino.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 11:50am | #

What this means to me as an independent...

The Republicans are the party running the unelectable candidate.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 11:51am | #

NM that seems to go against conventional wisdom, that says McCain was the only electable one if the field.

Episiarch | March 31, 2008, 11:54am | #

Thinking about it, it sometimes does seem like Obama is of House Atreides, Clinton is House Harkkonen, and McCain is House Corrino.

McCain is Jose Ferrer?

joe | March 31, 2008, 11:54am | #

I've a great idea, TallDave: why don't you make some references to laughter, to show how totally not shaken you are by the fact that it's not working?

And here we are still talking about that "dead story." Yes, talking about how the story is dead, and how the polling is demonstrating exactly the opposite of what people like you were predicting.

There are the American people, and there is you, TallDave. They've left you behind.

PC | March 31, 2008, 11:55am | #

Wright himself is not as big of an issue as how Obama handled it. With all the awkward comments his wife is making, when he threw his grandma under the bus he really did his damage for the general. Then after throwing his grandma under the bus he used the phrase "typical white person" which was definitely awkward, especially considering it was from someone that was half white himself. Discussing race is a third rail and Obama had to touch upon it, but racial sensitivity goes both ways and sacrificing his white relative to justify Wright's rants is not going to help him in the general. I personally think most of this stuff is trivial but that is unfortunately what voters make their decisions on.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 11:56am | #

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.asp

Obama has 38 million on hand.
McCain has a little less than 8 million.

Yes folks that is about 1/5th of Obama's resources.

Now the RNC does have more money to kick in to help than the DNC, but they need a lot of that for congressional races.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:57am | #

What this means to me as an independent...The Republicans are the party running the unelectable candidate.

The antiwar people won't vote for McCain; he's tied very closely to a policy of helping the Iraqis develop some semblance of a stable liberal democracy. It follows that if Iraq goes badly, he will lose (which isn't the end of the world, really. I suspect Obama is much more moderate than he lets on (hence the vague rhetoric)).

The September Iraqi provincial elections will be something to watch. If the turnout is high, the moderates do well, the media coverage is extensive, and there's relatively little violence, there may a bump in public perception, as there was in the first elections.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 11:57am | #

NM, then again, if money mattered that much Romney would be the Republican nominee.

JanetP | March 31, 2008, 11:57am | #

Let it be remembered that the presidential election is not only about the person who sits in the oval office. Many people come into government on the coattails of the president. He/she will make appointments of Supreme Court Judges, and many appointments of Federal Judges. These are L I F E T I M E appointments - we don’t get rid of them when the next president is elected.

The president also appoints the U.S. Attorney General and U.S. Attorneys for the 93 federal districts. These are the people who make the decisions about who, and what crimes, should be prosecuted. The group of officials named shape our country just like Congress.

Obama has demonstrated that Jeremiah Wright has enormous influence over him. It has also been ably demonstrated that Wright has an agenda that is offensive to the majority of Americans. Likewise, it appears that Michelle Obama is simpatico with Wright’s agenda.

Do we really want these people making appointments that will last for the rest of OUR lives?

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 11:58am | #

Cesar,

The conventional wisdom hasn't done much to illuminate this election cycle, imho.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 11:58am | #

Janet, you really think hes going to appoint Wright to the Supreme Court? You're sounding just a TAD nutty.

joe | March 31, 2008, 11:59am | #

Here, btw, is the Gallup tracker. Scroll down for Obama-McCain and Clinton-McCain.

Note how the trend lines in both races look exaclty the same, with McCain overtaking both Clinton and Obama at the same time, following exactly the same trajectory.

I eagerly await the explanation of how the Wright story harmed Hillary Clinton's general election chances to exactly the same degree Obama's.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 11:59am | #

Obama has 38 million on hand.

Too bad for Obama that he's forced to spend it all on a primary.

Shorter Janet P | March 31, 2008, 11:59am | #

BOOGAH BOOGAH HES A SCARY BLACK MAN AND HIS WIFE IS A BITCH BOOGAH BOOGAH!

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 12:01pm | #

The story will be dead forever, never to be revived again if Obama wins Pennsylvania, which would prove he wasn't hurt that much with white working class voters.

joe | March 31, 2008, 12:01pm | #

Er, here:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/election2008.aspx

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 12:05pm | #

Janet, what exactly is "Wright's agenda" anyway?

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 12:06pm | #

I've a great idea, TallDave: why don't you make some references to laughter, to show how totally not shaken you are by the fact that it's not working?

LMAO I can't help it if you're funny.

I eagerly await the explanation of how the Wright story harmed Hillary Clinton's general election chances to exactly the same degree Obama's.

Obviously it hasn't, when you bother to look at more than one poll.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_clinton-224.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#charts

See how different those graphs look?

lawlzez

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 12:06pm | #

Cesar,

I agree.
The role of money is often over-emphasized.

Money can not shine a piece of shit, as they say, but Obama already has considerable appeal, unlike Romney.

If McCain is going to go negative and try and exploit something like the Wright affair, he would need money to do that while also trying to stay positive.

I don't see it happening.

He's too old.
Too much of a hawk.
Too much of a hothead.
Too much of a flip-flopper.
Too easily called out on his crazy talk.
Too weak on core conservative issues.

At least that is how I see it.

It is a long way from November, however.

Who knows how things will look by then.

TallDave is correct, of course, that what happens in Iraq in the interim will determine to a large degree how important the war is to the campaign.

What happens in the economy will be even more important.

And remember* Obama is advocating to "do something to help" while McCain is saying that those who got screwed on their mortgage deserve their pain (to the ears of the left) while at the same time saying that "greedy speculators" need to be punished (that's anti-investment to ears like my mother on the right). His message is too weak on both ends if the economy ends up to be the most important issue (when isn't it).

*This sentence was designed to test your working memory.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 12:09pm | #

NM I'll think he'll be attacked on those. The attacks on Obama seem to consist of:

He went to Wright's Church
His wife is a bitch (strangely this was used on Hillary Clinton and Teresea Kerry as well)
Hes libruh

Not as strong.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 12:12pm | #

NM I'll think he'll be attacked on those. The attacks on Obama seem to consist of:

Ha! You haven't even begun to see the real attacks. This is still just the primary. Wait till we get to taxes, government health care, gun rights, etc.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 12:13pm | #

This is still just the primary. Wait till we get to taxes, government health care, gun rights, etc.
Well, thats better than constantly attacking his wife.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 12:14pm | #

Cesar,

The other thing I have noticed about attacks on Obama is that they are all couched in some sort of carrier phrase like

"Well sure he's intelligent and charismatic, but..."

FWIW, I think he is a bit of a lite-weight on policy, but he is smart and has been working hard to surround himself with people who can shore up his proposals.

And, when it comes down to it, the best president is the one that knows how to surround himself with talented people.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 12:16pm | #

Note to Obama operatives.

TallDave just gave away the gun plan.

It consists of "the same old Republican attacks."

I think Obama's camp may be preparing for that already.

NM | March 31, 2008, 12:16pm | #

gun plan = game plan

That was an interesting typo.

Elemenope | March 31, 2008, 12:17pm | #

Obama has demonstrated that Jeremiah Wright has enormous influence over him.

He did? When was this? The speech I missed where Obama denounced whitey, apple pie, and Amerika? Oh wait, even *Wright* doesn't stand for that (it really helps if you watch the *whole* sermon and also have a passing familiarity with teh Bibelz).

Shit, there goes that theory.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 12:18pm | #

It consists of "the same old Republican attacks."

You mean like asserting that Americans have a right to bear arms?

I love when quoting the Constitution is called an attack.

J sub D | March 31, 2008, 12:19pm | #

Here's a bit of advice for both joe and Dave:

Don't trust polls. They're, like, totally wrong and stuff like, all the time.


I've lied every single time I've been polled. I'm not even close to unique in that regard. I also encourage others to lie to pollsters. I hate the nosy bastards and want them unemployed. You all can help with my anti-polling campaign by answering their questions either randomly or 180° out.

In advance, I thank you for assisting a noble cause.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 12:22pm | #

I've lied every single time I've been polled.

Yeah, I remember when the exit polls had Kerry way ahead on election day in 2004; they thought they had it won but it turned out people were voting for Bush but not telling pollers.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 12:23pm | #

Democratic front-runner Sen. Barack Obama’s (Ill.) religion also came into play when the panelists were asked about accusations that Obama’s Trinity United Church of Christ is a “racist” organization.

[Bishop Harry Jackson, chairman of the High Impact Leadership Coalition] said that while he disagrees with some of the statements made by the church’s leader, accusations like that are part of “a conspiracy that wants to silence the voice of the church.”

These are the folks that are supposed to be scared of Obama because of his association with Wright, aren't they?

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 12:25pm | #

These are the folks that are supposed to be scared of Obama because of his association with Wright, aren't they?

I thought it was folks who didn't agree that AIDS was created by a white supremacist U.S. gov't to kill black people.

joe | March 31, 2008, 12:26pm | #

See how different those graphs look?

No, not really. They both show a dip at the same time, to about the same degree. Of course, it's tough to tell exactly, because the graphics are so lousy and they don't let you zoom in to see a shorter period of time, but there doesn't seem to be much difference.

lawlzez Ah, more forced laughter. It really comes across as that Clinton-esque hyena bark when you keep forcing it like that.

Seitz | March 31, 2008, 12:26pm | #

You certainly sound like you could be a disciple of Jeremiah Wright. My guess would be that a generation of children under his tutelage would sound just as hate-filled and disrespectful as you.

Really? Because I didn't think I sounded hate filled at all. See, it was called satire. I was making fun of your ignorance up there. But now that I think of it, it was probably lost on you, due to said ignorance.

Obama has demonstrated that Jeremiah Wright has enormous influence over him.

Demonstrated it? How, exactly. Please provide examples and be specific. And I'm not talking words, I'm talking actions. How has he demonstrated this? I await your response. Good luck!

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 12:27pm | #

TallDave,

It consists of "the same old Republican attacks."

You mean like asserting that Americans have a right to bear arms?


No.
I mean like attempting to show that the Democratic candidate is trying to take your guns away, no matter what their position on the issue, or how low down their priority list "gun control" is.

joe | March 31, 2008, 12:28pm | #

Don't trust polls. They're, like, totally wrong and stuff like, all the time.

They're useful for seeing trends in the rearview mirror, since each poll is wrong (and stuff) in its owns special, constantly-replicated way.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 12:29pm | #

Obama can use Bill Richardson to talk on the gun issue.

An easy strategy to weaken attacks on the 2nd.

joe | March 31, 2008, 12:29pm | #

You mean like asserting that Americans have a right to bear arms?

Sure, look at the huge role that gun rights have played in the campaign so far. Uhh.....

Well, anyway, Obama took that far left, individual-right-to-bear-arms position on the 2nd Amendement. Uh....

Umm....

Scary black guy! I don't like his church!

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 12:31pm | #

FWIW Obama did say the second amendment is an "individual right" but I don't know his Senate record.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 12:32pm | #

The best thing the Republicans have is taxes. But McCain wouldn't take the "no new taxes" pledge, so hes not exactly solid on that either.

I totally agree with him on trade, but "The jobs aren't coming back, my friends" statements will probably make him lose PA and OH.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 12:33pm | #

No, not really. They both show a dip at the same time, to about the same degree.


LMAO No they don't! They go in opposite directions! Clinton actually spikes at exactly the same time Obama drops.

Trust me joe, with a comic talent in absurdism like yours in action, laughter is never forced.

joe | March 31, 2008, 12:35pm | #

Oh, look, more forced laughter.

We can all the see the chart, Dave. If you were so certain you were right, you wouldn't have to crow about it.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 12:36pm | #

Cesar,

Obama's record, you can decide if the source is trustworthy.

http://www.gunlawnews.org/Senators/Barack-Obama-4.html

whiterpeople | March 31, 2008, 12:37pm | #

As progressive young white people we have no right to criticize the views of Obama's wife and pastor, or to think they reflect negatively on Obama, because to do so is the equivalent of BOOGAH BOOGAH racism. Thank you.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 12:38pm | #

Sure, look at the huge role that gun rights have played in the campaign so far.

We were specifically talking about issues that had yet to come up.

I have to give the Dems credit: they've come a long way on the gun rights issue, as well as on taxes (in the old days, who would have thought a Dem congress would consider tax cuts as a stimulus? O joyous day!).

Unfortunately, this issue is tricky for Presidential Dems, because it comes down to Supreme Court decisions and thus SC appointments. With 80% of American telling pollsters they believe Americans have a right to bear arms, the Roberts/Alito crowd look pretty good on that issue.

It will be interesting to hear Obama try to square that corner. A good opportunity to move to the center, maybe.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 12:38pm | #

Cesar,

So my read of the issue is that it is very very low on his priority list.

He isn't gunning for the gun owners, but he isn't actively advocating for them either.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 12:39pm | #

Even if there was a President who was gung-ho for gun control, it would never make it through Congress--even a Democratic controlled one--thanks to the Jon Testers and Jim Webbs in the Democratic Party.

Dave-

Yes, they have changed a lot. My state party even contains pro-gun planks in its platform.

yeah right | March 31, 2008, 12:39pm | #

TallDave's laughter is forced. Joe's is sincere.

Perhaps we should have a laughing contest, to see who can out-laugh the other guy.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 12:40pm | #

Ok, "whiter people", lets start talking about Cindy McCain's drug addiction then and how she stole OxyContin from charities.

See? Its just stupid.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 12:41pm | #

As far as SCOTUS nominees.

Obama taught constitutional law and would likely have a good sense of how to pick competent judges. His statements on constitutional issues seem pretty solidly mainstream.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 12:43pm | #

We can all the see the chart, Dave.

Apparently not you. Look at the 3/15 arrow. Clinton actually spikes to a lead over McCain just as Obama is cratering. She goes from 43 to 48. Obama goes from 48 to 45.

If you were so certain you were right, you wouldn't have to crow about it.

LMAO I'm not crowing, I'm laughing.

It would be a lot harder not to laugh.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 12:43pm | #

NM I'd like to see Obama release his academic writings. That would tell us a lot.

joe | March 31, 2008, 12:43pm | #

The fact that the gun issue hasn't come up so far - not when John McCain started running his general election campaign, not when the GOPers were tripping over each other to see who could denounce the Democrats the loudest when the Republican primary was still contested - should be an indication that they don't see that as a rich vein to mine.

They could try to work the "he doesn't really mean it" argument, and might get some hard core gun people (ie, people who were going to vote Republcan anyway) to believe them, but "There is an individual right to bear arms, subject to reasonable regulation" is a pretty centrist position, and well to the right of what Democrats were saying in the 80s.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 12:44pm | #

In other words, TallDave et al. will have a hard time making Obama's SCOTUS appointee potential a big issue, particularly given his statements about "individual rights" in regards to guns.

Can you see McCain and Obama having a discussion about the constitution coming out with McCain looking like the knowledgeable one?

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 12:44pm | #

Joe, he still despeately needs to pick an unabashadly pro-gun VP.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 12:46pm | #

And then of course we come to this week, where Clinton's Bosnian Trip Of Terror drives her down.

Odd parallel with Kerry there. I guess they never learn.

Mo | March 31, 2008, 12:46pm | #

TallDave and joe,

Get a room.

joe | March 31, 2008, 12:46pm | #

Yes, TallDave, they both start dropping against McCain right before that 3/15 arrow, and they both slide down to 3-4 points back.

It looks like she's "spiking" because she had only recently gotten to that 3-4 point lead, while Obama had been there for some time. But their trajectories after that are almost indistinguishable.

We can all see the chart. It doesn't show what you're claiming. It shows them both dropping behind McCain over the same time frame.

joe | March 31, 2008, 12:48pm | #

Oh, it also shows one other thing: Obama is now 0.2% behind McCain, while Hillary remains about 3 points back.

Neu Mejican | March 31, 2008, 12:49pm | #

NM I'd like to see Obama release his academic writings. That would tell us a lot.

Certainly those are already in the public domain.
I assume that as a professor he had to publish in peer-reviewed journals.

Hmmm....

A quick google scholar only turns up political writings.

joe | March 31, 2008, 12:49pm | #

Odd parallel with Kerry there. I guess they never learn.

This is who still flogs the Wright story.

Spend a little more time outside the bubble, d00d.

stuartl | March 31, 2008, 12:52pm | #

Damon @ 10:52, good questions. I've had them myself. I'm a small l libertarian (actually more of a classical liberal)

Is there anyone on this forum who believes they are either Libertarian or very libertarian leaning that is not taken aback by Obama's economic policy suggestions?

Yes, I will not vote in the general election for someone who supports "fair" (government set) wages. I lived through the 70s. Maybe Obama can find a way to fudge this in a way similar to his Wright fudge. BTW, I did vote for Obama in the primary, because Hillary is the worst of the three.

Call me a graduated libertarian, but I've always felt that economic liberty is the underpinning of social liberty.

Agreed, wealth and security make it easier to worry about liberty.

In that, despite my dislike of a huge chunk of McCain's positions, I currently support the man because his economic platform (although still a little odious) whafts less of sulfur and fire than Obama's.

Yes, but McCain's easy belief in the suppression of political speech stinks pretty badly as well. McCain really doesn't get the law of unintended consequences.

Elemenope | March 31, 2008, 12:55pm | #

I'd like to see Obama release his academic writings. That would tell us a lot.

I would too, if only because he writes pretty decent speeches and so is probably a decent writer all around; constitutional law tends to be interesting in any case, and it isn't often you get presidential candidates generating position papers on such issues.

On the other hand, I wrote some pretty crazy shit just for the fun of it in my academic days, and so position papers and unsigned notes and suchlike may indicate more accurately his areas of academic *interest* rather than his actual *positions*.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 12:56pm | #

LOL whatever. If you can't read a chart, try looking at the individual poll numbers. You can clearly see Obama runs much better against McCain before the scandal.

P Brooks | March 31, 2008, 12:56pm | #

*Reading up from the bottom*
Mo | March 31, 2008, 12:46pm | #

TallDave and joe,

Get a room.
That's all I need to know.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 12:57pm | #

This is who still flogs the Wright story.

LOL that's odd, I could have sworn he was in the title of this story.

TallDave | March 31, 2008, 12:59pm | #

Oh, it also shows one other thing: Obama is now 0.2% behind McCain, while Hillary remains about 3 points back.

Yep, Hillary ran as well as Obama until the Bosnian follies.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 1:00pm | #

I think no matter who gets the Presidency, our taxes are going up.

Matt J | March 31, 2008, 1:03pm | #

The "grandmother under the bus" accusation really seems like reaching to me. We all have fucked up baggage when it comes to race - white or black. Lots of us have relatives and close friends we love dearly who happen to hold some views we find repugnant. But, because we know the totality of their being we don't disown them. I hear things at family reunions in Mississippi that curl my toes. What he said was refreshing because it's true. I think most people got his point. The ones that single out the phrase "typical white person" are the ones that will never vote for a black guy anyway.

whiterpeople | March 31, 2008, 1:04pm | #

Ok, "whiter people", lets start talking about Cindy McCain's drug addiction then and how she stole OxyContin from charities.

We can do that. Everyone likes good gossip. But Cindy McCain's misbehavior doesn't indicate anything about her husband's ideological orientation.

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 1:05pm | #

Well, McCain supports the drug war and supports policies which would throw 99% of the people in this country into jail for doing what Cindy McCain did. So why didn't she go to prison like everyone else?

whiterpeople | March 31, 2008, 1:13pm | #

I honestly don't know much about the story, Cesar. If there is hypocrisy and corruption involved, that doesn't surpise me. My point is it may reflect badly on McCain, but it doesn't say anything about his policy positions. Whereas Obama's close associates seem to indicate that Obama may be more of a race-based leftist than we realized.

joe | March 31, 2008, 1:14pm | #

Wow, you don't even know how to read a line chart, TallDave?

Let me help you out.

Pull up the RCP page. Take a ruler, and lay it vertically on the screen, with the right edge lined up with Hillary's peak vs. McCain. You will see that the straight edge crosses the Y axis right at the "/" in the date "3/15/08."

Then, click over to the McCain/Obama page. Lay the ruler at his peak, and follow it down to the Y axis. Once again, you will see that the straight edge crosses the Y axis at the same point - the "/" in the date "3/15/08."

Since the Y axis represents the date, we can conclude that Clinton and Obama both started dropping off against McCain at the same time - a few days before 3/15/08.

This is fourth grade stuff. WTF is wrong with you?

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 1:17pm | #

It does say something about his policy positions. It suggests McCain believes in rehab for some, prison for others.

If I did what Cindy McCain did I'd be doing hard time.

As for "race based leftist", what the fuck does that mean? Give me one "racial" policy where he differs from Hillary Clinton or any other liberal Democrat.

GILMORE | March 31, 2008, 1:18pm | #

I'm sure the Wright story damaged Obama with some white ethnic voters.

(in German secret-agent accent)

"Zere ARE no white ethnic voters"

....Novelties, parrrrty tricks...

BakedPenguin | March 31, 2008, 1:20pm | #

He's Back! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! Dondero was getting so boring.
Oh, c'mon. Dondero is much better entertainment than Edward. Listening to Dondero is like listening to a North Korean minder instruct you on how the US conspired to start the Korean War. His baldface contrafactual assertions are so brazen, the Ministry of Truth would have a hard time putting them out. Combined with his constant appeals to authority, ad hominem, and post hoc, he's like a Dada performance artist.

Edward, to paraphrase Scott Thompson, is like if someone taught your grandmother - the one who doesn't speak English - to swear phonetically. No actual arguments, no substance, just a chimp making obscene ahnd gestures.

joe | March 31, 2008, 1:22pm | #

As for "race based leftist", what the fuck does that mean? Give me one "racial" policy where he differs from Hillary Clinton or any other liberal Democrat

No, no, Cesar - he's a SECRET race-based leftist.

A Mauritanian Candidate, as it were.

damon | March 31, 2008, 1:23pm | #

Time for some perspective:

www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com

Cesar | March 31, 2008, 1:26pm | #

I still don't even know what "secret race-based leftist" means. Sorry, I was born in the early '80s so these secret 1960s codewords aren't hard-wired into my brain.

joe | March 31, 2008, 1:29pm | #

I can't tell you, Cesar.

It's a secret.

Art-P.O.G. | March 31, 2008, 1:33pm |