Sebelius Never Told Obama of Healthcare.gov's Woes Despite 18-Plus Meetings? Really?

Obama and SebeliusNational Institutes of HealthAfter the disastrous launch of Healthcare.gov, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius publicly insisted that the president learned of the website's woes along with the rest of the country—on October 1, 2013, and thereafter as the slow-motion train wreck occupied public attention. But it turns out that Sebelius and Obama met many times in the year leading to the Obamacare portal's launch—"including at least seven instances in which the two were scheduled to discuss the new healthcare law." Did somebody forget to pencil a few important items on the agenda? Or is the administration just full of shit?

Back in October, Sebelius told CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta that Obama learned of trouble with the Healthcare.gov implementation and launch in "the first couple of days" after the site went live. She specifically denied that he had any hint of trouble earlier.

But The Hill's Kevin Bogardus and Jonathan Easley report:

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius was in frequent contact with President Obama and senior White House aides before the disastrous launch of the federal ObamaCare exchange last year.

While Sebelius has said the president was not aware of HealthCare.gov’s problems, more than 750 pages of documents obtained by The Hill through a Freedom of Information Act request show she made scores of visits to the White House.

The documents reveal that Sebelius met with or attended calls and events with Obama at least 18 times between Oct. 27, 2012, and Oct. 6, 2013, including at least seven instances in which the two were scheduled to discuss the new healthcare law, according to the secretary’s draft schedules.

She had breakfast or lunch with Pete Rouse, considered one of Obama’s closest advisers, at least three times. Moreover, Sebelius had scheduled calls or meetings with Valerie Jarrett, an Obama confidante, and White House chief of staff Denis McDonough.

Sebelius also met with or had calls with Chris Jennings, then a White House senior healthcare adviser, at least seven times in the roughly yearlong period.

Now, it's possible they just said "fuck work" and discussed favorite plot lines from Community (you know that Barry thinks he's a Jeff Winger, but he's really more of a Ben Chang.) But I suspect at least a little shop talk made its way into the chatter from time to time.

Of course, Healthcare.gov is just the public face of Obamacare despite the great many woes besetting the Affordable Care Act independent of the Internet. Maybe, instead of the disastrous website, they were discussing its impact on health costs, or employment, or taxes, or the availability of care...

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  • CampingInYourPark||

    I don't know why this is a story. Did Sebelius even know of the healthcare.gov woes before healthcare.gov went "live"?

  • CampingInYourPark||

    And also:

    What difference, at this point, does it make?

  • Drake||

    And, Chris Christie's traffic jam!

  • Sevo||

    "What difference, at this point, does it make?"

    None. None whatsoever!
    3.3m of the 50+m without insurance have 'signed up'!

  • Gadianton||

    3.3m of the 50+m without insurance have 'signed up'!

    For values of 'signed up.'

  • Nazdrakke||

    And values of insurance.

  • ||

    And how many people who were insured have lost their policies (or are facing sharply increased premiums)?

  • Michael S. Langston||

    Well everyone is facing increased premiums... but yeah - 9 million are to have admittedly lost their plans, while the employer mandate is still shelved.

    So even if you grant 2.5 million signed up, and assume they actually signed up for plans and have and can pay the premiums and co-pays and deductibles...isn't that still a net loss of 6.5 million?

    I mean a bill sold to everyone as reducing health care costs, helping the economy, and insuring the uninsured, has don't nothing but damage the economy, drastically increase health care costs, and while signing up a tiny fraction of the uninsured, it has actively caused many millions more to lose their insurance.

    All without the employer mandate which will compound this problem a great deal - 5 fold likely at a minimum.

    Yet he, his staff, and his supporters are all happy with the progress.

    sarc
    Besides - if you look real hard, you can find rightwingers who are racist and watch Fox! & really, as the FCC has demonstrated, aren't the nut gun owners who watch Fox a much greater threat to our society, than all of these so-called reductions in freedoms that the rethug-a-teabagg-in'-libumtarians constantly whine about?
    /sarc

  • jschmidt||

    As the senior manager of the project, she should certainly have known.As the CEO of the company, Obama should have asked the question. But of course that would have violated Obama;s policy of plausible deniability on everything.A Democrat Congressmen stalking Christie says if Christie didn't know about the bridge issue, then he is incompetent. Obama according to his own statements appears to know nothing about anything that goes on in DC. According to a Democrat of Congress, he must then be incomeptent at least, or corrupt at worse.

  • Michael S. Langston||

    Obama according to his own statements appears to know nothing about anything that goes on in DC.

    Not entirely true - as his knowledge simply fluctuates with needs.

    Just like his ability to "do something" is also constrained by this - when he doesn't want to do anything, he cannot, when he does want to, he will. Even if the law is against him - he doesn't care.

    For example - he doesn't like marijuana laws and hated DADT, and he might actually be leaning towards not liking NSA stuff.

    But he cannot fix that - even though it's to his sole discretion, because he's busy - or evil people stopped him - or his hands were tied.

    Conversely - not only does he know about things like murderdroning, but as a Constitutional Scholar he can explain to us all how killing people without due process is legal/Constitutionally compatible.

    Though he won't tell us - as part of his goal to become the most transparent administration ever - the DOJ, on the WH's behalf, has argued in open court that those killings are unreviewable by anyone ever. No one has standing ever.

    & let's not forget about bankruptcy laws and healthcare insurance (he knows enough here to tell every American what insurance they will be allowed forced to purchase).

    So when it's illegal for him to act - he acts. When it's well within his power - his hands are tied.

    Exactly like he knows more than anybody on vast areas of life, except the implementation of his signature piece of legislation.

  • World watchers||

    Lets see Libo She worked three years building that website at a cost of over $600 million to the tax payer and you have the nerve to suggest this should not be a story!! You must be bigger fool than you appear!!

  • World watchers||

    She worked three years building that website at a cost of over $600 million to the tax payer and you have the nerve to suggest this should not be a story!! You must be bigger fool than you appear!!

  • Brett L||

    Mendacious liars or breathtaking incompetents? Its probably both. I know these people think they can just survive each news cycle by doing the old Steve Martin "I forgot" routine, but I can say within my own circle of acquaintances, the statists are getting more and more uncomfortable when I bring up the inevitable fallibility of human endeavors and the government's ability to destroy innocents through simple inertia.

  • Sevo||

    Brett L|2.13.14 @ 2:42PM|#
    "Mendacious liars or breathtaking incompetents?"

    Don't light the Tony signal...

  • Swiss Servator, Befehl!||

    Or sound the shriek siren.

  • Hugh Akston||

    I'm sure Prince Barry always had a copy of the Guantanamo Prison Executive Report or maybe even the ol' Disposition Matrix on the table between he and Katherine when they met.

    His Majesty doesn't care for bad news.

  • Brett L||

    If only Comrade Stalin had known!

  • Almanian!||

    It's KathLEEN, not Katherine! Don't you talk shit about my girl!

    /sick puppy

  • SugarFree||

    Al paced back and forth in the hallway outside of Kathleen's office. The thought of her her ashen, slack skin made his impatient erection throb like a sore tooth. Meetings. Meetings all day. It was some cruel game she was playing, he thought. A way to hurt him by withhold what he needed most. The office door opened.

    "Kathleen," he said, half-sobbing and lunging at the door. It was just her aide.

    "Janice," Al said, grabbing the frightened girl by her shoulders. "When, Janice?" he begged.

    "Al, you need to calm down. She's in with The President of the United States Barack Obama and the Meeting is Very Important. They are talking about the implementation of The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act."

    "Fuck that noise, Janice. I need my Kathleen. My loins burn for her!"

    "Ew."

    "Don't 'ew' our love, Janice. You're just an aide. You don't know about love yet. Have you even had your first abortion, you silly twat?"

    "You know I'm working on it, Al," Janice hissed.

    "Get Kathleen out here right now or I'm going to make you watch me fuck and eat your abortion, Janice. I'll fucking split in half on my cock and tongue out the insides, Janice. You fucking know I will."

    "Fuck you, Al. All you make are empty promises."

    She watched as a tranq dart caught him in the neck and he dropped to the ground.

  • ||

    It's like you can read my mind. The really depraved part of my mind that I keep hidden even from myself.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Well, that was an unfortunate read.

  • Almanian!||

    THANKS FOR LEAVING ME HANGING WITH THIS BONER, NUTRASWEET...YOU BASTARD!

    *shakes fist at computer screen*

  • SugarFree||

    And Epi showed up and jacked Al off and hot juices spattered on Janice and Al finally shut the fuck up.

    THE END

  • Almanian!||

    I AM NOT SATISFIED! I WILL HAVE JUSTICE!

  • SugarFree||

    [fires electrified net]

  • Invisible Finger||

    Having been involved in lots of IT projects, I can assure you that Sebelius is typical of IT project managers. Shitloads of meetings, insists on informing that everything is going swimmingly, looking for another job at the same time because the project is actually a disaster, not finding another job, suddenly becoming aware of the problems minutes before go-live.

  • UnCivilServant||

    There's another population of IT managers - those who have no clue about the technical information, and then yell if anyone tries to tell them why it won't work when and how they demanded it be done.

  • Almanian!||

    Yeah, this strikes me as the case here. Non-tech person "leading" a clusterfuck effort about which they are not an expert.

    Which is OK IF you're a good project manager and know what you don't knwo. And care. And ask the right questions, and have a "go to" person who is an expert and whom you trust and, and, and, and...

    And I'm betting Princess Sebelius has none of those qualities and did none of those things.

    Literally...

  • Almanian!||

    Also, "Don't give me problems, give me solutions!!! I pay you to make this shit work, not to tell me why it won't! Why the fuck am I paying you? FIX IT!"

  • Swiss Servator, Befehl!||

    Say, Almanian, when were you listening in on our Project Management Office conversations?!

  • Almanian!||

    Pretty sure all Workers of the World™ are in the same project planning meetings, just in parallel planes. The interactions and outcomes are the same, but the players are different.

    Pretty cool

  • Swiss Servator, Befehl!||

    So there really are an infinite number of frustrated PEGA architects?

  • Michael S. Langston||

    Smart managers, IT or project know that trying to detail all specifics to knowledge workers will almost always fail in the end.

    It's an easy rule to remember, but so many arrogant people forget so easily.

    You hire good people - then you tell them to do job X and you trust that they will and give them leeway to do so.

    You don't say - I need this programmed in PHP utilizing.... you say "here's what we need" and trust the experts to move in the right way.

    Though I will note - while I grant there are many petty tyrants all over the business world, and IT isn't excluded, most PMs & IT managers I've worked with at more than one company were good at knowing their job and their limitations.

    I don't expect anyone close to Obama to know they even have limitations; but I think your indictment/generalization that for PMs/ITMs, "the typical ones are just like Sebelius" in my experience, haven't been true... though I will say my current position may be clouding my judgement...

    & of course it all hinges on how one defines typical.... so I'll shut up now.

    Sorry - carry on

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Obama is more Magnitude.

  • Almanian!||

    Fucking magnitude - how does it work?

  • ||

    POP POP!

  • Hugh Akston||

    The mere fact that you call him that just proves that you're not ready for ObamaCare.

  • MJGreen||

    They did have the episode with Magnitude as the Obama stand-in, Leonard as McCain.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    "Shut up, Leonard. I know you weren't born in the country either."

  • ||

    I'll give you a third alternative: Sebelius decided not to tell her boss, who she's supposed to be accountable to, of the problems with the project she was reporting on. If she really kept these issues from him, her ass should be fired. Somehow though I doubt that Dear Leader will do so.

  • R C Dean||

    I think there is a very real possibility that the internal wiring of this administration is so thoroughly effed up that Sebelius didn't know, and that if she did, she didn't tell Barack.

    When you're debating the precise mix of breathtaking incompetence and mendacious dishonesty, its time to step back and say "what difference, at this point, does it make? They should all be fired, regardless."

  • ||

    Exactly. The precise mix of lying and incompetence is probably something we'll never get to know exactly, but we can clearly see that both are major factors. The exact percentages are irrelevant at this point.

  • Paul.||

    I think there is a very real possibility that the internal wiring of this administration is so thoroughly effed up that Sebelius didn't know

    I believe this to be true by definition. When you believe with all your heart that you can even attempt to do the things that the Obama administration believes is within it's grasp, let alone statutory authority, you're guaranteed to fail.

  • Michael S. Langston||

    I think there is a very real possibility that the internal wiring of this administration is so thoroughly effed up that Sebelius didn't know...

    That may be - but let's not let her off that easy. If she didn't know, it was willful and active ignorance, as it seems newspaper articles utilizing zero monies to actively research the problem can still write articles which seem to have more & better facts that the admin or his staff.

    I mean didn't this thing fail months ago - and they're still claiming they don't really know what's going on?

    & didn't when it failed, Obama claimed he'd fix it, but he's too busy murderdroning and being transparent to learn code?

    So did he know things then he doesn't know now?

    Sorry - I forgot. They know things when it helps them, and are actively kept stupid when not knowing is preferred.

  • ||

    Or is the administration just full of shit?

    DING DING DING DING...we have a winner!

  • MJGreen||

    the president learned of the website's woes along with the rest of the country—on October 1, 2013

    It's still shocking to me that this is their strategy for covering his ass. "He is the President, but he only learned about it afterwards!" If only that could work for us plebes. I'm sure your typical manager would love to get away with the excuse, "In fairness, I'm only learning there's a problem now, so I can't be responsible for it not being fixed."

  • Michael S. Langston||

    The buck stops... with people who report to me... or with the minority party... or with presidential opponents... or possibly even with prior president(s), but where ever the buck does stop, the President will make sure in the end that the whole reality of it is confusing, untrue, nuanced, and more. Why? Because in every single case - the President must make sure the buck stops elsewhere.

    New Presidential Motto:

    The buck stops elsewhere.

    Which is all apart of Obama's grand strategy... let's call it: Presidential Obfuscation Strategy™.

    Because on top of actively ensuring the buck stops elsewhere, isn't the WH also doing everything in their power to increase the POSs?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Now, it's possible they just said "fuck work" and discussed favorite plot lines from Community

    I was going to suggest they all went out in the driveway and played "horse" for an hour.

  • MJGreen||

    Maybe the first time, but why would Obama want to keep losing to Sebelius?

  • Sevo||

    He was too busy conceptualizing the fate of the universe and considering what executive orders he might issue to grant eternal life!
    And then, hey! What's this? He read it in the papers a week or so later!

  • Paul.||

    "By elevating can-do attitudes above accurate-and-sometimes-gloomy status reporting, such project managers undercut their ability to take corrective action. They don't even know they need to take corrective action until the damage has been done. As Tom DeMarco says, can-do attitudes escalate minor setbacks into true disasters"

  • The Late P Brooks||

    "Don't give me problems, give me solutions!!! I pay you to make this shit work, not to tell me why it won't! Why the fuck am I paying you? FIX IT!"

    KEEP HITTING IT.

    HARDER!

  • Almanian!||

    I just spent $5B on a bigger hammer. Success is just around the corner!

  • BiMonSciFiCon||

    I see Obama as more of a Tom Haverford type. Flashy, selfish, puts himself in the spotlight at the expense of others.

  • Sevo||

    The man is an incompetent amateur who compensates by lying. The boot-lickers among us accept the lying since, hey, he's the FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT! Yes, it's nothing other than the expectation and acceptance of incompetence.
    It is a measure of the success of our government that such slimy people can be around the nuclear button and (so far) be kept from pushing it.
    But let's not shove the sleaze-bag too far; there is no knowing what extremes such an asshole will take when threatened with exposure.

  • Paul.||

    The boot-lickers among us accept the lying since, hey, he's the FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT!

    WRONG! Bill Clinton was the First Black President(tm).

  • Paul.||

    She specifically denied that he had any hint of trouble earlier.

    This is how Sebelius becomes Ambassador to France, or Spain or some such vacation spot. You do get that, right? It's called protecting your boss.

    I almost typed 'falling on your sword', but Sebelius is still alive, both physically and politically, so no one has yet fallen on any swords.

    At best, she merely moved out and drew fire.

  • creech||

    Any CEO in America who was this clueless for so long about what was going on in his corporation would have either been fired or had the decency to resign by this point in his tenure. But this guy will retire, and collect millions in fees for books and lectures about how glorious was his term in office.

  • Paul.||

    Any CEO in America who was this clueless for so long about what was going on in his corporation would have either been fired or had the decency to resign by this point

    Well, or been given a massive bailout. This is 2014 afterall.

  • Killaz||

    Haven't seen her name in the news in months. It seemed like a scrub job even. Surprised you found a pic of Sebelius with the president that hadn't been carefully edited with her out of it.

  • Almanian!||

    I do love the ones of The Pres, Sebelius and Pelosi, all laughing and carefree.

    Better times - GOOD times....

  • Killaz||

    It was like the night of the Lufthansa heist. Everyone was festive, laughing it up and sharing the score. Oblivious to things to come.

  • Aresen||

    Simplest explanation: She did not want to give the boss bad news and kept hoping everything would magically come together in the end.

    I have seen that in too many organizations: Tell the boss what he wants to hear, not what he should know.

  • Pope Jimbo||

    I've seen it a lot too. However, I have always been diligent when dealing with these project managers in sending them a lot of detailed CYA messages so that when the shit hit the fan I could point out that I had been warning everyone I could months in advance.

    Surely, there were a lot of mid level managers who were writing memos that said "We might - might - get the web site up by the go-live date, but there is no way it will be able to accept payments" Or other shit like that.

    Why can't the congress critters start an investigation and ask for all the e-mails from the mid level managers? I bet there are all sorts of smoking gun messages there.

  • Michael S. Langston||

    ^This^

    I'm ok with the idea that others get to make decisions I don't, but if I know a decision to be potentially harmful, I at minimum explain the risks to those making those decisions.

    Whether they read it or not - I have at least put it out there that I disagree, so if the possible negative consequence happens, I can at least say "I told you so".

    Though in corporate lingo it comes out like "I'm not sure I understand the need to assign blame. Per attached, I thought we openly discussed this possible risk prior to approval. Correct me if I'm wrong or missing something here, but it the results came directly from a risk which was identified and communicated to all parties prior to approval...."

  • Drake||

    I don't think Obama cared to hear any of this management bullshit for even a second. My guess is that he sits around with Sebelius and other toadies talking about how awesome Obamacare and Obama himself is.

  • Michael S. Langston||

    More likely Obama loves their BS - irrelevant human interaction talk is well within his abilities - it's reality he's unable grasp.

  • Almanian!||

    You know, srsly - why hasn't The Administration (PBUI) appointed Boyd Crowder as Press Secretary? SRSLY? How awesome would Boyd Crowder be as secretary? TOTALLY awesome, that's how.

    "While I do understand your curiosity about the nature of the internal workings of the President's administration, and your belief in the need for its inner workings to be displayed to the public, I remind you to be very congnizant about the....ramifications of seeing things you are NOT prepared to see. Things that most human beings never WANT to see. Things that - well - things that we don't much talk about here in Harlan County. Now - while I understand allll that, I think you and I BOTH know what we really need to talk about, and that's the Teathuglihadists and their obstruction of everything that is holy and good in this world....IDN'T THAT RIGHT, BOYS?"

    *four roughnecks arise from behind podium holding shotguns*

  • Mint Berry Crunch||

    Boyd Crowder - the man who says 40 words when 4 would do.

  • Tony||

    You guys can't fathom why one might not jump on the equivalency train and prefer Obama to Bush. Here's why: Bush's biggest fuckup, among many, was a 10-year war based on lies that got thousands upon thousands killed, started in response to an unrelated terrorist attack, the worst ever, that he failed to prevent. Obama's biggest fuckup was that a website didn't work for a while.

  • PapayaSF||

    It's hard to choose Obama's biggest fuckup.

    The worst domestic policy catastrophe since Prohibition?

    Doubling the national debt while crippling the economic recovery?

    More people dependent on government than ever?

    Fumbling in international relations to the point of making the US an international laughing stock, and leading to a resurgence by Al Qaeda.

    Shredding the constitution on a weekly basis?

    Losing control of the House, and possibly this year, the Senate, too? (Though that's good, from my POV.)

    Quite a legacy.

    At least Iraq went from a dictatorship to a democracy, so the result, while costly, had an upside. What's the upside of the Obama catastrophe? "Hey, we destroyed the health insurance system at a cost of hundreds of billions, and most people now pay more for insurance, but a few lucky people pay less!"

  • Michael S. Langston||

    Don't forget - every single policy Bush had that he and his party labeled as evil, his administration doubled down on and is hoping to cement into law permanently.

    Or did I miss when Bush claimed he could murderdrone people but no one could ever question him about it ever....

  • Almanian!||

    Hey! Look everybody! Tony's here to talk about the last president! The one who's been out of office for 5 years! The one no one here loves anyway, but Choney likes to pretend we all do!

    Tony, everyone! Tony!

  • Drake||

    BOOOOOOSH!

  • CampingInYourPark||

    zzzzttt...brrrpp...ttthhttt...
    "Activate talking point 4, paragraph 8. Code name: Booooosh!"
    zzzttt...brrrp...ttthttt.

  • Tony||

    Bushit. This place is crawling with Republican apologists and all you have to do is look on this fucking thread. Chris Christie's very real corruption scandal? No big deal! Why, when a bunch of made up shit about Obama is a big deal? Who the fuck knows?

  • SpitzersBlackSocks||

    Did someone not let the dog out? He left a stinking pile in the middle of the living room.

  • Tony||

    Fuck off. Bush was a radicalizing event for tens of millions of people in this country. Without Bush, liberals would still be the starry-eyed idealists who never win elections they were in 2000.

    Bush and his Republican Congress really, really fucked this country up. They never should be in power again, ever. That is as good and true as any principle ever dreamed up.

  • Mint Berry Crunch||

    Hey, don't look at me. I vow I will never support a Presidential candidate who was in the Senate and went along with Bush's plan to launch that Iraq War you're so upset about.

    Can you make the same promise?

  • Tony||

    Fuck no. I said (to paraphrase) never having Republicans in power is the most overwhelmingly important imperative for this country, and all other considerations mean nothing in comparison. So if Hillary is what accomplishes that goal, Hillary it shall be.

  • ||

    Fuck no.

    That's because you're a sycophantic piece of shit. As you admit, as long as a politician has a (D) next to his name it doesn't matter how much of a slimeball he is, you'll be on your knees and ready to worship. *SLURP SLURP*!

  • ||

    *or she

  • Tony||

    Not because of the (D) but because of the lack of an (R). I didn't say I fell in love with anyone. I was radicalized against Republicans because they will destroy this country if they get their grubby stupid hands on it ever again.

  • SpitzersBlackSocks||

    Damnit kids, I'm not going to tell you again.

    Take the dog outside. He obviously ate something that didn't agree with him, and now he can't control his bowels.

  • Michael S. Langston||

    Yawn - you're tiresome.

    To prove it - I'll save you time - cut and paste this for tomorrow:

    If you just look at this objectively, it's obvious that my ideas, and people who think like me, are superior to any alternative. Therefore, anyone who disagrees must be evil and as such, is a crazy gun toting Rethug-a-teabagg-in'-libum-atarian.

    PS: My way is perfect - every alternative offered is evil and only exists in anyone's fevered imagination because of Fox News, Bush, or the racists.

    Yeah, I know the PS might seem a little redundant - but better to repeat yourself once in a single post than to take time out to create 40 posts with the same thing in it.

    Though maybe I'm giving you too much credit... curious - do you even know that your schtick is the same in every case?

    Better question - do you know what it means when you have a single answer for everything?

    But honestly I'd rather you not reply. You are tiresome and this is likely my last post to you with anything approaching a cogent thought.

    Sorry to others here if it took me too long - but I'm done soon with anything other than mocking (though will likely eschew that as well - what a waste of time - might as well argue with the Westboro folks - same argument "believe like we do are you're evil").

  • Whahappan?||

    The post is about Obamacare. Why the fuck should we ignore the subject of the post to focus on Christie? Whenever there's a post about Bridgeghazi everyone shits all over Christie. You're brain doesn't work very well.

  • Michael S. Langston||

    Obama and his supporters are serious and firm and mean it when they use the word nothing in this goal they have: nothing will be allowed to remotely tarnish, even by for a microsecond the emperor's clothes.

    100 years from now there will be books about Obama's birth and how "the birds sang out in US English/Swahili 'Glory to all heaven and earth. On this day a true moral, warrior poet, a real savoir of human kind, has been born'."

  • PapayaSF||

    Christie just should have sicced the New Jersey Division of Taxation on that mayor. We know from the Tony and Shriek types that that sort of thing is not a scandal.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Bush and his Republican Congress really, really fucked this country up.

    No shit. Without that idiot Bush, Obama would still be living on kickbacks as an Illinois state senator.

  • Tony||

    I consider this sort of opinion to be tantamount to pissing on the graves of the Bush war dead.

  • Paul.||

    You mean the Obama war dead.

  • Tony||

    No, I mean the Bush war dead. Obama didn't start any wars. Especially none based on lies.

  • Michael S. Langston||

    I consider this sort of opinion to be tantamount to pissing on the graves of the Bush war dead.

    &? Most consider you an incredibly tiresome, immoral, POS.

    You don't seem to care.

    Why should anyone here care what a *coward then thinks about the respect due living and deceases war vets?

    *Though I could be wrong here - but since you like trying to define respect to war dead, please tell us about your military background which gives you such a deep understanding of the sacrifices required?

    You know, the sacrifices which force you to take an innocuous comment on a blog and pretend they're pissing on the war dead?

    On second though - no need - I'll just believe you. I mean why else would you appear that upset if the military and war are things you're completely unfamiliar with.. because you know, you never signed up, never trained, never planned for it, never got deployed.

    I'm sure with your level of anger you got some good war stories, right?

  • Almanian!||

    BOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

  • Michael S. Langston||

    Ah... Tony's day:

    Get up - mooch money off of any friends and family still willing.

    Drop by Reason for a few - attempt to deflect all critiques about Obama towards Bush, Fox News, and other evil.

    *note to self - in case I ever accidentally consider any arguments on Reason might be well thought out, just remember, I am perfect and good, so are the people who think like me. All good people think like me. Therefore everyone else must be wrong and evil.

    Watch soaps my stories.

    Steal/mooch lunch, masturbation

    Shower (every other day)

    Logon to Reason - deflect critiques, obfuscate, and try not to let own that when I masturbate I picture Obama.

    Check out online educational opportunities. Complain on DailyKos how I would be soooo much better if only everything I wanted weren't run by evil corporations for profit, I could afford a good college too.

    Steal/Mooch alcohol.

    Sit down, scratch a$$. Contemplate that life doesn't seem to have worked as I thought.... natch. No bad thoughts.

    Logon to Reason....

    Rinse.Repeat.

    If you can stand playing in the slime anyway...

  • Tony||

    Nobody asked you to come suck George W. Bush's cock either.

  • Pulseguy||

    Tony is impotent. He can't masturbate. But, that is Bush's fault too.

  • World watchers||

    That's there story for everything and they're sticking with it until they bankrupt America!!

  • Ken Shultz||

    Why would she bother talking to Obama about anything?

    He's an idiot.

  • Pulseguy||

    That's probably a reasonable statement. By now anyone close to him must know he is an imbecile.

    I can hardly wait for the memoirs of his aides to come out after his tenure. I think once the dirt starts to come out, it will shock everyone.

  • RishJoMo||

    What a crazy idea man.

    www.GoAnon.tk

  • Pulseguy||

    The funny part is she thinks by saying he was never informed it lets him off the hook. It makes him look more stupid.

    I hire someone incompetent. I'm an idiot. I hire someone incompetent and I am blissfully unaware they are incompetent. How does that make me less of an idiot?

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