Obamacare Navigator Confuses Floridians About New Law's Nonexistent Credit-Check Requirements

Healthcare.govU.S. GovernmentObamacare being a new, confusing and really poorly implemented system that has Americans baffled and frustrated, the administration set aside millions of dollars to hire highly trained "navigators" to lead Americans through the bureaucratic thickets. Those navigators are hard at work, and in fine federal style, they're making a cock-up of the whole affair. In Florida, Anne Packham, the chief navigator, publicly insisted that applicants for coverage through through the exchange would be subject to a credit check before contradictory information from D.C, caused her to backtrack, again in public.

From ClickOrlando:

ORLANDO, Fla. -A day after saying that anyone signing up for the Affordable Care Act had to provide their credit score, the lead Navigator admitted that she had been providing factually incorrect information to the public.

Anne Packham, one of the people assigned by the state to help people navigate the government's website, asserted in an interview on Tuesday – and then later during follow up questions - that the credit check was put in place so providers can make an educated decision about who to insure.

"That's so that health insurance providers can make an educated decision about who to insure based on if someone is defaulting on all of their bills they may not want to have them as part of their health plan," she said during Tuesday’s on-camera interview.

A representative for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services said Wednesday credit scores have nothing to do with insurance rates under the Affordable Care Act.

The Department of Health and Human Services, by the way, seems so besieged by Obamacare confusion that it has laid off the "we can't afford the electricity for our Web servers and our press officers are starving in an alley" jive that prevails throughout the rest of the federal government. It's still posting press releases and pleading that it can only contradict its people in the field one at a time.

Confusion reigns!U.S. Government

So take a number and wait your turn.

As it turns out, applicants are run through credit agencies, but allegedly to confirm their identities, not their creditworthiness.

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  • Pro Libertate||

    What is this? Release the pythons of retribution!

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Would more pythons change anything?

  • Pro Libertate||

    These are trained attack pythons. Florida has not been idle.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    So the regular pythons are untrained attack pythons?

  • Swiss Servator, Zurichmania!||

    Correct. We need trained assault pythons...and if they fail, they end up as a snack at a Mounty Python location near you.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    What if my python cage can hold 10 pythons? Am I only allowed to put 7 in?

  • pan fried wylie||

    A python cage holding 10 pythons leaves Florida on light rail traveling at 55mph while a python cage holding 7 pythons leaves California on highspeed rail traveling at 75mph. In what state do the trains collide due to insufficient funding of public transportation and how many commerce-clause violations do they incur, combined. Remember to show your work.

  • sarcasmic||

    Both trains are stopped at the state borders, their illegal reptile cargoes are confiscated, and as a result of the delay the trains never reach their destinations.

  • SweatingGin||

    In a tunnel in Colorado, and all those pythons deserved it for supporting the looters.

  • Neoliberal Kochtopus||

    In a tunnel in Colorado, and all those pythons deserved it for supporting the looters.

    *fanfare*

  • Pro Libertate||

    Soon, we will be launching cyborg pythons from Cape Canaveral.

  • pan fried wylie||

    Soon, we will be launching cyborg pythons from Cape Canaveral.

    With a ship constructed out of pythons.

  • Pro Libertate||

    No. The cyborg pythons are the ship.

  • Rich||

    “Navigators will be among the many resources available to help consumers misunderstand their coverage options in the Marketplace,” HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said

    FTFY

  • Jordan||

    This has turned out to be even more DMV-like than even I imagined. This is fucking awesome. Which state is mailing paper applications? I forget. And Hawaii's exchange has yet to come online.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    That's just because of timezones, man.

  • Pro Libertate||

    It's time dilation. See, Hawaii, being so far away, is redshifted into gamma wavelengths, which means it takes weeks for light or other high-speed particles to get there.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    It also explains why Obama looks so old now. He only appeared young before due to the lag in our transmissions from Hawaii.

  • Pro Libertate||

    This is correct. He is also receding from us at the speed of light, which is why his communications make no sense. He's out of time synch with the rest of us.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Obamacare Enrollees Become Urban Legend

    Will the Floridians who have enrolled for Obamacare please stand up?

    Nearly two weeks after the federal government launched the online Health Insurance Marketplace at healthcare.gov, individuals who have successfully used the choked-up website to enroll for a subsidized health insurance plan have reached a status akin to urban legend: Everyone has heard of them, but very few people have actually met one.

    The Miami Herald searched high and low for individuals who completed enrollment for a subsidized health plan through the marketplace, also called an exchange, launched by the federal government on Oct. 1 in 36 states, including Florida.
  • Paul.||

    Like the color laser printer that everyone said worked with Meditech. I couldn't find a working example, but everyone insisted they were out there.

    After two months of searching, it was all just a big misunderstanding and the laser printers didn't work the Meditech.

    See? The Obama administration is like an allegory for shit that doesn't work!

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Just remember to leave a trail of breadcrumbs as you wander through the enchanted forest of red tape, so you can find your way home.

  • Loki||

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!11!!!! *inhales deeply* BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!1!

    Oh, sweet, sweet schadenfreude, this is just so much fun to watch... until I remember that my insurance contributions through my employer are going through the roof, and I remember that we're all paying for this bullshit. Then I no other recourse but to reach for the nearest bottle of liquor.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    the lead Navigator admitted that she had been providing factually incorrect information to the public.

    They fired her, right?

    I crack myself up.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Florida Man Mistakenly Purchases Health Insurance Coverage For Pat Buchanan

  • Swiss Servator, Zurichmania!||

    +1 ballot position

  • Bee Tagger||

    Never before have there been so many Chads on Aetna's insurance rolls.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    +1 The Onion.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    These are trained attack pythons. Florida has not been idle.

    Will I die from laughter?

  • Pro Libertate||

    Surely by now you have seen what our pythons can do. Operate heavy equipment, use firearms, open doors. . . .

  • John||

    Don't forget your budding giant mosquito army as well.

    http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/.....l-florida/

  • Pro Libertate||

    You call them mosquitoes, we call them drones.

  • pan fried wylie||

    That's the attack bees and ants, you blabbermouth.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Shock and awe, not stealth, are Florida's three chief weapons. Wait, shock, awe, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Mouse.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Would a pack of velociraptors be able to defeat a pack of pythons?

  • Pro Libertate||

    Don't be silly. Some primitive species that couldn't hack it beat advanced, genetically engineered pythons?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    But pythons have been raised in a weak world. The raptors are like the Fremen, if the Fremen had had hundreds of other species of sandworm to deal with.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Weak world? I see you know nothing of Florida, where death is everywhere. It's like Salusa Secundus down here (shoots weird bug never seen before with high-powered multi-firearm).

  • Auric Demonocles||

    How did the Sardaukar fare when they faced the Fremen?

    If this was raptortimes, that bug would have been approximately 10x larger. They even dealt with temperatures so high that even approaching them is soon to destroy our entire civilization.

  • UnCivilServant||

    Actually that was the point where my final scream of "Bullshit!" caused me to abandon the attempt at reading it.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Lethargic pussies. We'd kick their asses.

  • General Butt Naked||

    "Good job"

    Ummm, you're doing it wrong. Pythons hate praise, it reeks of weakness.

  • creech||

    So, who has been fired? Didn't OGL compare this to a glitch Apple had with a new IPhone? And didn't Apple end up firing some people because of the glitch and its handling? AT least there's been no "Heck of a job, Brownie."

  • John||

    I know there is a lot of debate on here about how people will react to this. Time will tell and there is no point in having that debate again here. But one thing is for sure, if Obamacare doesn't completely destroy or seriously damage people's faith in the federal government's ability to manage things, it won't be because it didn't try really hard. This whole thing is like some kind of a giant teaching moment to the American public.

  • GILMORE||

    John, the 'teaching moment' is going to be "the wonders of progressive entitlements were OBSTRUCTED and STYMIED by the evil oppositionists". Have you ever met a liberal who admitted failure of *concept*? i havent. its always a matter of 'not enough money/time/support/the sun wuz in are eyes/the dog ate mah homework/cause racists', writ large

  • John||

    Of course not. But liberals like that are only about a 1/3rd of the population. The middle third that have been taken in by this bullshit, won't be as forgiving.

    Liberals will never learn. But they are not the majority or even close to the majority in the country.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Liberals will never learn.

    I;m not so sure of that.

    In the 70s & 80s they said that conservatives were liberals that had been mugged.

    Well, Uncle Sam is going to be mugging a lot of them soon.

  • John||

    True. Some do. I always give the example of Thomas Sowell who was an outright believing Marxist in his 20s. He learned.

    I think a lot of suburban liberals are pretty soft liberals. They are liberals because that is what is culturally acceptable and they honestly don't think they are personally going to have to pay for the various liberal programs. Obamacare is quickly shattering that illusion.

  • Calvin Coolidge||

    Every time my lack of faith in government is tested, they do something to renew it.

    I mean, the economic reasons why ACA is such a disaster are the real reason it will be judged a failure, but these IT issues are just icing on the cake. As an IT QA professional, just reading the list of screwups is fun.

    - Contracts were given to companies that were major campaign donors rather than companies that could actually do the work
    - Requirements were postponed until after the election. This needs to be hammered on more. They sacrificed the ability of the system to work properly in order to play political games. Good requirements are needed as early as possible in the process. But, once again, government comes through and lives down to my lowest expectations.
    - 55 back-end integrations, and not a single pre-release integration test. Nobody even though to coordinate the effort. Wow. Just wow.
    - No pre-release user testing. Again, this level of incompetence is only seen in fairy tales, which is what the ACA has become.
    - No stress testing. And then the lies. If I click on a link and immediately am redirected to a landing page telling my wait my turn, that is two lies in one! First, that it is the overuse of the site causing this, and second that there is a queue I'm waiting in, rather than just looking at a landing page, forever. Awesome!

  • John||

    And no one fired over the failure. Liberals are so paranoid and so committed to the cause, they have lost the ability of self criticism. The only way a liberal is ever fired is for not being sufficiently liberal. No liberal is ever fired for incompetence. Liberals should have a passionate interest in good, efficient government. They should be the first ones to demand accountability from government employees since faith in and good function of government is essential to their cause. But since they are so inbred and paranoid, they are the last ones to demand such. And thus their programs fail even more spectacularly than they should.

  • Jordan||

    Hell, they'll just use this as an excuse to get more funding. Government rewards failure.

  • John||

    For sure. And in doing so, it undercuts its reason for existence. It is one thing to fail at something small that not many people know about and that the media can lie and cover up and keep people from hearing about it. Most of government drones along doing damage but doing so in small ways that most people don't notice.

    But this thing is different. This thing affects everyone in the country. There is no way to cover up this failure. That is not going to turn out to be a good thing for liberals. Liberals can only succeed if the voters have at least some faith in the government and its ability to solve problems.

  • wareagle||

    you're giving liberals a lot of cover, john. First and foremost, they are about control. If that end is reached through an efficient means, then that is an unintended consequence.

    They believe in govt and, by extension, any application of it is good. Govt itself or the policies themselves are never the problem; sometimes, it's the obstructionists who refuse to recognize brilliance and sometimes it's a flaw in the delivery. But never does it cross their minds that the idea itself is screwed up.

  • John||

    Of course that is what they have devolved into. And that is self evidently insane. And that insanity is causing them to defend the indefensible and destroy the very government they claim to worship so much.

  • Brett L||

    The problem is not enough subsidies, its too expensive! Yeah, I figure this is the deal.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    As premiums rise do to the death spiral, screams for increasing the subsidies will surely follow.

  • Ruckus||

    If Sebelius or Obama would come out, and to continue the Apple metaphor, go all pissed off Steve Jobs and start shit canning people responsible for this failure, they'd get a morsel of my respect. No, respect is too strong of a word. It would be more along the lines of a sarcastic cheer you give a bad official when he finally gives your team a call. "Thanks for finally doing your job asshat, woohoo".

    But that will never happen. There is no accountability in an environment that rewards connections and intentions over production.

  • John||

    They might not get respect, but they could at least mitigate some of the damage. But Obama will never do that. Liberals value loyalty and commitment to the cause over all else. In addition, who knows how much Sibelius knows about the IRS scandal. The problem with being as dirty as Obama is, everyone around you basically owns you. He probably couldn't afford to fire Sibelius if he wanted to.

  • Ruckus||

    Yeah I'm not expecting the pres will fire Sibelius, regardless if it's a merit-able canning.

    I mean I'm not sure how some heads don't roll on this. This is one of the biggest cronyism failures ever. Like you said above, most gov. incompetence is isolated in small pockets or subsets of people, this things fucks over everyone.

    And this is just the exchange/implementation, not the cost and IRS problems everyone is going to deal with in the near future.

  • John||

    I bet no one does. You would think someoen would be fired. But I bet no one is. Hell, Lois Lerner took the 5th before Congress and all they did was let her retire.

  • SweatingGin||

    I'd imagine they'll get some mid and/or low-level employees at the contractor out. Parade a few scalps from there in front of congress when the hearings get going.

    In HHS? Unlikely.

  • Calvin Coolidge||

    "The only way a liberal is ever fired is for not being sufficiently liberal. No liberal is ever fired for incompetence."

    That is baked right in to their governing philosophy. Remember, nobody is responsible for outcomes. Your life is just a crap shoot, either you get lucky and are rich and successful or you are unlucky and live under a bridge. No decision you make or action you take can possibly affect this. Otherwise, we might have to concede that some people are responsible for their fate, and that undercuts the whole notion of the Nanny State.

  • John||

    True. But liberalism is sold as good government. It is sold to nonliberals as a way for people to solve their problems. When the reality of actual liberal government becomes apparent, it gets a lot harder to sell.

  • Calvin Coolidge||

    Yes, the further government programs move from simply mailing people a check, covered by a partly-invisible deduction from other people's paychecks, the harder it is for it to work properly. When your core competency is breaking things and killing people, trying to embark on a more complex social engineering project than simple wealth redistribution is a bad idea.

    I remember when they tried this in the 1990s under Hillarycare. I was younger then, and when I found myself in line at the Post Office or DMV, I'd loudly declare that I was glad the same lines would soon exist at the doctor's office. The response was always positive. People confronted by the relaity of government 'services' are less likely to want more of them.

  • John||

    Exactly. This was never going to be like Social Security.

  • Bardas Phocas||

    Pre-release Testing?
    That's defeatist talk.

  • Brett L||

    Obviously, they've found a solution to the gremlins who sneak in a put bugs in every other developer's code.

  • SweatingGin||

    Didn't you hear? All the developers hired at those contracting companies run by major dem contributors were Teathuglican plants.

    I missed out. Could have been collecting a Koch-check and a check from the actual work, just to sabotage it.

  • Brett L||

    Shit. Here I am working like a dope.

  • UnCivilServant||

    Here I am reading Reason at work because most of the office is still on a long weekend.

  • Brett L||

    Well, "working" consists of watching a program convert RTF to new Office 2010 and up "Rich Text". One point three million records down, seventy-thousand to go. All so electronic medical records can be PDF'd. Some days you march in front of the elephants in the parade, today I march behind them.

  • UnCivilServant||

    I don't really count waiting for the computer as 'work', even if they pay me to do it. It's more or less what I'm doing, but it doesn't need me to be here unless it explodes.

  • Jordan||

    - Contracts were given to companies that were major campaign donors rather than companies that could actually do the work
    - Requirements were postponed until after the election. This needs to be hammered on more. They sacrificed the ability of the system to work properly in order to play political games. Good requirements are needed as early as possible in the process. But, once again, government comes through and lives down to my lowest expectations.

    And yet proglodytes look at me like I'm from Mars when I tell them government responds to political incentives, not economic ones.

  • Invisible Finger||

    The good programmers are all Rethuglicans and Libertardians.

  • RUExperienced||

    So what happens when people can't pay for the coverage? Do the companies get to drop you and then the feds fine you on top of it?

  • John||

    That would appear to be what is going to happen. Part of me thinks that there is no way Obama is that stupid. That he will waive the penaltax this year. But then I think that he is so arrogant that he would never admit failure like that. So, if I had to bet, I bet this thing rolls on by its own momentum and millions of people end up paying a penalty for not buying insurance that was unavailable for them to buy.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    If he waived the penaltax for the year, he'd be effectively giving the Republicans what they wanted. He can't do that!

  • John||

    That too. But if he doesn't, the result is going to be the one RUExpericned outlined above. That would be an unmitigated disaster. I am not sure that such a state wouldn't get the penaltax struck down by the courts. I can't see how they can charge a tax based on not doing something that they have made impossible. And even if it didn't, the Democrats in Congress who keep voting for this would catch hell. What happens if the Congress votes to override the tax? Do they finally turn on Obama?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Well, they can pretty much charge a tax for whatever reason they want, can't they? Isn't that the whole point of it "not" being a penalty?

  • John||

    I am not familiar enough with the law to be honest. But any government action has to have a rational basis. If the tax is based on people not buying insurance, it has to be possible for them to buy insurance. If they can't, it would be like taxing everyone who doesn't own a unicorn. I would imagine courts would be very dubious.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Well, I would think that's only if it's viewed as a punishment (i.e. penalty). If it's a tax for the purpose of revenue raising, I don't think the government is required to provide a way to avoid it.

    Of course, I'm an engineer, not a lawyer so who knows how accurate this is.

  • John||

    But even a tax has to have a rational basis. You can't tax people on the basis of things that are not reasonably possible. Imagine if they said you had to pay your property taxes via a special website and then the website went down and stayed down causing thousands or millions of tax payers to be late. No way would a court uphold the right to charge a late fee under those circumstances. If they want to tax based on not having insurance, it has to be possible for people to buy the insurance or that law has no rational basis.

  • creech||

    I will be shocked if more than a handful ever pay a penalty in 2014. Most everyone will simply check a box on their 1040 that says they have medical insurance, and put in some phoney policy number. Do you think the IRS is going to check millions of returns? No, they'll catch a few who will have been audited anyway.

  • John||

    That is a good point creech. I also wonder if there isn't going to be a lot of civil disobedience where people who have insurance refuse to check the box and also don't pay the penalty either. If you actually have insurance, you could always go back and prove it if the IRS tried to go after you. But if even a few million people do that, the IRS won't have the resources to go after anyone.

  • creech||

    John, I think the penalty is taken from one's refund so it's pretty hard to avoid...unless one doesn't have a refund coming, in which case I guess IRS bills you.

  • John||

    Creeech,

    A lot of people don't get refunds. So, those will be the ones who avoid it.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Probably some sort of dummy insurance companies will be used.

  • John||

    Pro,

    If I put down, I have policy number 79905 with the A Wiley Coyote Insurance Company, unless I am audited, who is to know?

  • Pro Libertate||

    Yes, but I could see even an additional line of audit defense being raised by fraudulent, shell insurance companies.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Pro Lib, put me down and when they call I'll vouch for you. You have policy #1337.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    If he waived the penaltax for the year, he'd be effectively giving the Republicans what they wanted. He can't do that!

    The Politburo will rebrand it, and the faithful will nod sagely and approve.

  • GILMORE||

    "As it turns out, applicants are run through credit agencies, but allegedly to confirm their identities, not their creditworthiness.""

    oh, good. they're both wrong. that's reassuring.

  • John||

    But remember, when this thing fails it will just prove the government running everything via single payer is the only answer.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    It would have worked if it wasn't for those hostage taking Rethuglicans shutting down the government after all of this "work" was already done!

  • GILMORE||

    THEY KNEECAPPED THE BABY IN THE CRADLE AND IT DIED ON THE VINE BEFORE THEY THREW IT UNDER THE BUS

  • sarcasmic||

    That's what the major media and Democrat machine (redundant I know) will say.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    If I click on a link and immediately am redirected to a landing page telling my wait my turn, that is two lies in one! First, that it is the overuse of the site causing this, and second that there is a queue I'm waiting in, rather than just looking at a landing page, forever. Awesome!

    It's not like they put a "Customer Service" sign on the exit door.

  • GILMORE||

    it reminds me of when you ask a call-center employee to speak to their boss (after an hour of getting nowhere), they happily agree, press a button and send you back to the waiting list. F.Y.T.W. FTW

  • UnCivilServant||

    Funny, during my call center days, our supervisor button actually conferenced in a supervisor. That must be why we were outsourced, we were actually doing the job we were supposed to do.

  • GILMORE||

    Yes, you were one of the good ones.

    Many very large corps that built up huge resources in the Bangalore Customer-Service outsourcing frenzy, however, have completely lost touch with how their call-centers deal with people. Jesus, try calling *Microsoft* about something... you can spend hours being bumped from idiot to idiot before someone takes pity and sends your call back to America.

  • sarcasmic||

    Just got a notice from my employer saying I stay on their prescription drug plan or, if I'm eligible, go onto Medicare Part D. If I choose neither, then monthly premiums will go up 1% for every month of no coverage, and stay that way. For example if you go twenty months without coverage, when you get insurance it will by law cost 20% more than most everyone else.

    So that's how they're going to to after shirkers. Not only will they be penaltaxed, but when they do get insurance it's going to cost extra. Forever.

    They can't ding you for preexisting conditions, but they can ding you if you don't have preexisting insurance.

  • sarcasmic||

    So people who don't know this, like irresponsible young people, are going to be in for a heck of a surprise when they finally get insurance after seeing their tax return confiscated a few years in a row. Wow. Or they probably won't get insurance because they won't be able to afford it.

    MARKET FAILURE! GREEDY INSURANCE COMPANIES! SINGLE PAYER NOW!

  • Neoliberal Kochtopus||

    Yep. They're just going to clamor for increased subsidies and MOAR LAWS on the insurance companies. This is why the shutdown was a necessary strategy - letting this thing inflict its pain on everyone is no way to govern.

  • sarcasmic||

    They're too busy ruling to bother with mundane things like governing.

  • blcartwright||

    The Dems tipped their hands in the Shutdown. Obamacare was designed to inflict maximum pain and inconvenience on the public in order for them to blame the evil insurance companies and plead for single payer.(I've always believed it was designed to drive private insurance providers out of business)

  • SweatingGin||

    It really is progressives-gone-wild, isn't it? I thought they were doing a lot to punish people with the shutdown, but I'd forgotten about a lot of the punishment aspects of Obamacare.

  • sarcasmic||

    It really is designed to fail. Elaborately designed to fail in an epic fashion. And the insurance companies will get all the blame.

    Just as the housing bubble was a result of regulation and blamed on a lack of regulation, the failure of health insurance will be a result of regulation and blamed on a lack of regulation.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    It's not designed to do anything. For it to be designed, they would have had to take the time to plan it, which would have required reading it.

  • John||

    They didn't design it to fail. They are not that smart. No one is more shocked this thing is a disaster than the progs who designed it. They actually thought it would work and make things better. To the extent they had a long plan towards single payer, it was that they figured Obamacare would work so well and be so popular people would naturally demand more of it and they would get single payer as a result.

    I don't believe the conspiracy theories for a moment. Remember, these people don't understand how markets work. For this thing to have been designed to fail, the designer would have had to have understand markets and how to exploit them to make the system fail. No way are Progs that smart. Progs live in a fantasy world where dictates make things come true in the real world and where incentives don't matter. When you remember that, it is pretty obvious they designed this thing thinking it would work.

  • Calvin Coolidge||

    They absolutely think it will work. They believe in the numbers on paper - get enough young people to buy, extract enough taxes from people who won't notice them, and use them to give free (or cut rate) stuff to everyone else.

    Even if it worked on paper, it would need to get through the Legislature. And, even today, the Legislature is busy tweaking the incentives and punishments. If the end result even approximates a market equilibrium, it will be by pure chance.

    The most likely scenario is that everyone keeps postponing the penalties and taxes for their favorite groups, meaning that we get the premium death spiral as every sick person signs up while the well people are allowed to wait until they get sick.

  • sarcasmic||

    Conspiracies are hidden. This is right out there in the open for anyone to see.

  • John||

    Again, for this to be designed to fail, the designer would have have to understood how markets and incentives work. If you have ever met a committed prog who understood either of those things, you have met one more than I ever have.

  • sarcasmic||

    It is designed as a bridge to single payer.

  • John||

    To the extent it was, it was becuase they thought it would work so well and be such a success that people would naturally demand single payer.

    If you want to know what progs actually thought, read what their conservative toadies were saying in 2010. Toadies like Brooks and Frum were not saying this thing was going to fail and bring on single payer. They were saying this thing was going to be popular and work so well the Republicans would be a permanent minority party for not sharing in its success.

    That is what progs thought. Toadies like Brooks and Frum never utter a word outside what the hive is thinking. And that is clearly what they thought.

  • sarcasmic||

    Single payer is a holy grail for leftists. Like with gay marriage, they will lie and cheat and do anything required in order to get what they want.

  • John||

    Sure they will lie. But you don't have to lie when you honestly believe your idea is going to be a huge success and empower you to do even greater things.

  • Invisible Finger||

    With apologies to R C Dean, this is the extent of systems analysis you get from attorneys.

    Finding loopholes is one thing, probably a form of debugging. But it ain't systems engineering.

  • John||

    It is also the product of a system being created by committee. Everyone wanted their pony with no regard to how it would affect the functioning of the whole.

  • blcartwright||

    I do believe, from the time it was passed, that Obamacare was designed to drive private insurance carriers out of business, and if anything went wrong for the consumer in the process, the company would be the villain and the govt the savior.

  • John||

    And just imagine if the public option had gotten into the final bill. If their building of a website went this badly, imagine how big of a disaster building an entirely new insurance company would have been?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    It might actually distress me less if I truly believed this thing was hatched by a cabal of villainous supergeniuses with a PLAN.

    I think it's a ramshackle Rube Goldberg broken clockwork shanty of a thing, cobbled together by a bunch of blind idiots guided by their honest hearts and good intentions, and they will be astounded when the whole thing collapses spectacularly under it's own weight.

  • John||

    Exactly. I won't even pretend to speculate about how they will rationalize this thing. But there is no question in my mind all of true believing progs thought this thing was going to be a huge success and are now more shocked than anyone at what a failure it is.

  • sarcasmic||

    True believing progs are still disappointed that they didn't get their holy grail of single payer, and are praying for this to fail so they can get their holy grail.

  • UnCivilServant||

    I'm worried about who will be crushed during the collapse.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Who put that apostrophe there?

    Fekkin skwerlz.

  • Brett L||

    Idiot celebrates Obamacare's 50,000 enrollees per week.

    Great. So at this rate, we're only 10 years away from solving the problem. Assuming a static population.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    And of course, it doesn't take into account multiple signup/cancellations (if someone actually managed to get through, that is).

    The most pathetic aspect of this is that the article argues that state-run exchanges are having more success, which is a perfect argument to not have a federal exchange system in the first place. Just let states like California or welfare cases like New Mexico (births paid for by Medicaid: 70%) set up their own exchanges and if they're that great, more states will adopt those models.

  • R C Dean||

    And, of course, so far at least most enrollees haven't bought any insurance.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I'm worried about who will be crushed during the collapse.

    You and me both, brother.

  • blcartwright||

    "That's so that health insurance providers can make an educated decision about who to insure..."

    A representative for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services said Wednesday credit scores have nothing to do with insurance rates under the Affordable Care Act.

    They aren't even saying the same thing - the navigator claimed credit reports were being used to determine to insure or not, while HHS said they were not being used to set rates.

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