Dissenting Democrats and the Syrian War

The debate over Syria hasn't just opened up a split between pro- and anti-war Republicans. It has opened up a split between pro- and anti-war Democrats. Some of the Dems opposing the intervention are the sorts of dissidents you'd expect: Rep. Alan Grayson of Florida, for example, has a history of looking for left/right anti-establishment alliances, and it's not surprising to see him breaking with the president on this issue. (One of the most entertaining interviews I've seen in the last few weeks is this exchange between Grayson and an incomprehending MSNBC host.) This, on the other hand, might come as a jolt:

I never thought I'd agree with MoveOn and Sean Hannity at the same time.

Yes, MoveOn has a history of antiwar activism, but it also has a history of Blue Team loyalism. In voting to oppose the president's preferred policy in Syria, it has given the former priority over the latter. We live in interesting times.

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  • Killazontherun||

    Up on Drudge is this, if true, and it looks real enough to me on viewing, it ought to be the story of the year:

    Video: Syrian Rebel Admits Using Chemical Weapons...

    http://www.infowars.com/video-.....l-weapons/

    Prediction: Headline for 2014 Infowars Wins Pulitzer for Reporting in Syria.

    Consider, the source, but, holy shit, is this thing falling apart. What do you do, BO, declare bombing runs on our Al Qaeda allies as you are so wanting to do to Assad's regime, or pretend they are not who they are and are fully capable of doing something like this?

  • Irish||

    I think I'll wait for a non-Infowars source.

  • Killazontherun||

    My cheekiness was modeled on Nick Gillepsie's response when Glenn Beck turned out to be right about Anita Dunn being a Maoist.

    However, even the reports mainstream media, as that report mentions, get swept under the rug when they go against the Washington momentum:

    As we highlighted last week, Syrian rebels in the Damascus suburb of Ghouta admitted to a reporter that they were responsible for last month’s chemical weapons incident which western powers have blamed on Bashar Al-Assad’s forces, revealing that the casualties were the result of an accident caused by rebels mishandling chemical weapons provided to them by Saudi Arabia.

    Despite the fact that the report was written by credible Associated Press and BBC correspondent Dale Gavlak, it has received virtually zero mainstream attention.

  • Jon Lester||

    All else aside, the argument that only trained crews can handle chemical weapons, would also strongly suggest vast potential for disastrous mishandling.

  • TANSTaaFL||

    "I think I'll wait for a non-Infowars source."

    I'm the same way. Found these earlier this week. Atlantic and Washing Times are fairly credible outlets. As is the woman appointed to head the UN inspections. All express either doubt or acknowledgment of uncertainty and lack of evidence that Assad used CW

    Washington Times - very possible rebels used the Chem weap

    http://www.washingtontimes.com.....sads-regi/

    The Atlantic - "I find as of this writing that the events are still unclear." - formerly of the Policy Planning Staff in State Dept under Kennedy

    http://www.theatlantic.com/int.....lk/279255/

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    InfoWars informs me like no other web site.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    About 90% of the "news" you see at InfoWars is paranoid blarney, but the other 10% you're not going to get anywhere else.

  • Killazontherun||

    ^this. If you have a good bullshit detector, you should be making infowars a routine visit.

  • Emmerson Biggins||

    Also, usually the problem with infowars isn't factual accuracy. It's that they start with good facts and then draw overly strong to ridiculous conclusions. But really, I find their government-is-bad bias no stronger than "mainstream" government/my-team-is-good bias.

  • JW||

    One of the most entertaining interviews I've seen in the last few weeks is this exchange between Grayson and an incomprehending MSNBC host.

    [through earpiece] "Keep speaking the code phrases, over and over if necessary. Eventually his programming should kick in."

  • ||

    +1000 V chips

  • C. Anacreon||

    I haven't laughed so hard at anything in recent memory. He kept giving concise, very logical and supportable answers, and she basically kept sputtering "why aren't you following the MSNBC/Obama party line?" It really became pathetic when she started making up ridiculous farfetched "what ifs" to get him to say what would make him support an attack.

    What if Syria attacked Turkey? Really? And these people think they can ridicule Fox News?

    Also great when she ended with a "thank you" and he just kept quiet.

  • Brian D||

    I may probably never say this again, but I agree with Alan Grayson.

  • wareagle||

    ^^this. I never thought I would say that but his answers were clear, made perfect sense, and the questions he had were concise and straight-forward.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Yes. He used to be "my" congressman, and I don't think I ever liked anything he did. Then I move, and he does this. Ah well, better late than never.

  • Dweebston||

    There are no pro- or anti-war democrats, merely different stripes of social consciousness. Democrats never favor war, unless it serves the greater good!

  • Killazontherun||

    Rep. Grayson highlights what is at the heart of the problem here:

    http://www.usnews.com/news/blo.....anipulated

    "Well yes," Grayson said, "but I'm very constrained about talking about it. ... This has become a fundamental problem with our system: The information we do get is limited, but beyond that we are very constrained in discussing it."

    [questioning the official account of events], he said, is "actively discouraged."

    The four-page White House report on the alleged attack is no more than "a briefing paper with arguments in favor of attacking Syria" that "doesn't present both sides of the issue," Grayson said.

    "The administration wants to flood the zone by excluding other information or points of view," he alleged. "I think that it is interesting that the administration consistently refers to Assad doing this and Assad doing that and Assad doing the other thing without giving the public any evidence to support the proposition that Assad has done anything."

  • Killazontherun||

    How is it consistent with our form of government that junior dicks in the alphabet soup agencies authority be greater than elected members of the House of Reps? I use to be weary of the Ron Dellums types who cozied up to our enemies having access to this stuff, but no longer. If Hippietown, CA sends a rep to the House who demands access to the classified info in regard to secret exploding whale bombs to pass along to terrorist in Greenpeace that is just too fucking bad for the rest of us. Maybe we should rain in the building of secret whale bombs then.

  • Killazontherun||

    Maybe we should rein in the building of secret whale bombs then.

    I blame Peter Gabriel.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Isn't Games Without Frontiers the official theme song of the Syrian misadventure?

  • Killazontherun||

    Good one.

  • Jon Lester||

    ...hiding up in treetops, shouting out rude names...

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Whistling tunes we hide in the dunes by the seaside

  • Cdr Lytton||

    war without tears

  • Ted S.||

    I blame Peter Gabriel.

    You're smarter than that: you're stretching your mouth to let those big words come right out.

  • Killazontherun||

    Don't overestimate my intelligence. Many have gone down that road before you and have suffered grievously for it.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    I blame Peter Gabriel.

    You're gonna shock the monkey.

  • LynchPin1477||

    That Grayson interview was freaking amazing. The spin literally just bounced off him like he was some sort of robot.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Yeah, the world is upside down when I like the way Grayson handles an interview and think that Putin is more honest than anyone in the current administration.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Putin can afford to be honest. Most of his country likes authoritarianism.

  • Plopper||

    The reactions and the looks from the msnbc bitch were priceless.

  • Killazontherun||

    Get ready for the media to start pointing fingers at those townhall protesting crazies again, lady with sexy accent, rips John McCain a new asshole.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzH7BxFEzDs#t=60

  • Hyperion||

    He looks a little uncomfortable.

    I like to think of it as a prelude to how lots of them will look when they see a few million folks approaching DC with truck loads of tar and feathers.

  • Timon 19||

    Holy crap, that was awesome. McCain made to look the stooge that he is by a Syrian-American MILF.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    To ensure every child 'wins', Ontario athletic association removes ball from soccer

    According to Association spokesperson, Helen Dabney-Coyle, "By removing the ball, it's absolutely impossible to say 'this team won' and 'this team lost' or 'this child is better at soccer than that child.'"

    "We want our children to grow up learning that sport is not about competition, rather it's about using your imagination. If you imagine you're good at soccer, then, you are."
  • Lady Bertrum||

    This is child abuse.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    This was from a fake news show on the CBC.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    They also fooled news agencies with a story on sugar water.

  • Jordan||

    I think they're the ones who had a really convincing story about Krugderp declaring bankruptcy after trying to apply Keynesian derponomics to his household finances a while back.

  • ||

    Are you enjoying your Canadian satire superiority?

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    some say too much.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    Thanks :-)

  • Killazontherun||

    'France does!'

    Oh, Alex, that was painful to watch. Bless you, sweetie, but you just knocked a point in for Grayson when he wasn't even trying.

  • Hyperion||

    One of the most entertaining interviews I've seen in the last few weeks is this exchange between Grayson and an incomprehending MSNBC host

    So when did MSNBC become Fox News? There were stupid enough before, but now they're war mongers too!

    Proglodye: Hey, I bet you listen to Faux News!

    Me: Nope, I keep my war boner going by watching MSNBC!

    About the only thing that has made me laugh harder, today, outside of that interview, is this quote by Tim Stanley at The Telegraph:

    Speaking yesterday she made the standard humanitarian case for intervention but then added her own cute spin. Nancy told us that she asked her 5-year old grandson if he thought America should go to war. “No!” he replied, so she gave him a lesson in the importance of deterring the use of chemical weapons. There are two things to take away from that surreal anecdote. A) Nancy discusses foreign policy with 5-year olds. B) They know more about it than her.

  • Cascadian Ephor Xenocles||

    Who would have thought MoveOn was full of racists?

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    It's good to be the dictator.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "In voting to oppose the president's preferred policy in Syria, it has given the former priority over the latter."

    Either that or Obama isn't running for reelection.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Obama isn't running for reelection.

    yet

  • Hyperion||

    Needs moar war and blowback.

  • ||

    Obamacare is running for reelection in 2014.

    Shouldn't that be close enough?

  • Killazontherun||

    Translation table explaining the truth behind British politeness becomes internet hit

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....t-hit.html

    The last entry on the table is pure nationalist vanity.

    What British say -- You must come for dinner

    what they mean --

    It's not an invitation, I'm just being polite

    what Foreigners here --

    I will get an invitation soon.

    I can only speak for myself, my thought processes go like this -- Oh, shit! British cuisine tastes like vomit! How do I get out of this?

  • ||

    Although the author of the table is unconfirmed, it is thought it may have originally been drawn up by a Dutch company as an attempt to help employees working in the UK.

    That's what makes this story fun.

  • Killazontherun||

    A destiny that leads the English to the Dutch is strange enough; but one that leads from Epsom into Pennsylvania, and thence into the hills that shut in Altamont over the proud coral cry of the cock, and the soft stone smile of an angel, is touched by that dark miracle of chance which makes new magic in a dusty world.

  • Killazontherun||

    I was hunting for a few paragraphs from Thomas Wolfe on the watery and bland mush of English cuisine, when I that popped up. It was, hey, what a cowinky!

  • ||

    I'll take some homemade Guinness Pie or a nice English breakfast. Also Chicken Vindaloo if that counts.

  • ||

    Fish and chips!

    I do like that the British conquered the world so they could get decent takeaway at home.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    The takeaway was a fringe benefit; they were really trying to find the lost tribe of Dan, famed for their excellent dentistry.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    "takeaway" is my 3rd favourite British phrase.

  • ||

    The first is "dogging" and the second is?

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    WRONG

    "Petrol" and "Penultimate"

  • ||

    How is penultimate a Britishism?

    My best awkward moment was telling a story to a Brit that involved the phrase "my cousin and I were bummed." The look on his face was priceless until he registered I meant something totally different.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Because nobody on this side of the pond uses Penultimate in their regular speech.

  • ||

    bellend

  • C. Anacreon||

    I like how they so commonly use the verb "reckon", which we more associate with hillbilly talk.

    "The Prime Minister reckons the agreement will take ten days."

  • ||

    Oh yes a nice sack of fish and chips with a shit ton of vinegar poured in. Mmmmmmmmm.

  • ||

    “To eat well in England you should have breakfast three times a day.”

  • ||

    Maybe it's my 7 years of limey education but some of those are Americanisms too like "that's not bad" and "with the greatest respect."

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    With the greatest respect, Apatheist, I'll definitely bear in mind your limey opinions.

  • ||

    Yeah but we picked all those up by watching Monty Python.

    They are not so much Americanisms but simply Briticisms that Americans picked up.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Hammond you idiot. You probably put cheese on everything.

  • ||

    Sooo...

    Does this actually mean the British did authorize a strike on Syria?

  • Killazontherun||

    I'm just too numb by the shock some tongues find English food edible. The only decent food I had there was from Moroccans and Italians expats.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    "SPOTTED DICK"

  • Cdr Lytton||

    As a food, good. As a medical diagnosis, not so much.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Members of congress, especially those wearing the "D" brand of the Ruling Party, should keep in mind that they are NOT the president's subordinates. They do not answer to him, they answer to their own constituents.

    -jcr

  • Anonymous Coward||

  • Warrren||

    Rub it with your special ketchup!

  • Lyle||

    I called my Black Caucus Democrat congresswoman and asked her to vote no.

  • Nando||

  • Jesus H. Christ||

    " this exchange between Grayson and an incomprehending MSNBC host.)" That interview was APPALLING. The MSNBC bitch behaved like she was hired by the administration to push their agenda. It wasn't the usual not so subtle push to the left, but rather a complete assault on Grayson. This wasn't even supposed to be an editorial or opinion piece. This is what passes for national level journalism? The MSM can't die fast enough.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    "Work It" - Ylvis.

  • Warrren||

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    "The Fox" - Ylvis

  • Warrren||

  • Warrren||

    I've been bombed by Syrah.

  • ||

    Alcohol is a chemical.

  • Warrren||

    I did try launching my trouser missile.

  • Redacted||

    One of my Senators was actually one of the Dems that voted no in committee. This is a guy that votes with the party 95% of the time.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    You must be so proud. Did you send him a bouquet?

  • ||

    The proper response is to point at him and make the throat hiss.

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