Government Terror Alert Very Serious According to Politicians

news alerts orangeReasonWere the federal government still using its color-coded terror alert chart, it may have upgraded the terror threat status to red. The State Department closed embassies across the Muslim world today (most embassies in non-Muslim countries are already traditionally closed on Sundays), and politicians hit the Sunday talk shows to explain just how serious they believe the threat to be.

From NBC News:

The threats that led to the U.S. closing almost two dozen embassies abroad this weekend is based on intelligence that is reminiscent of the "chatter" preceding the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, a top senator on intelligence matters said Sunday. 

"The one thing we can talk about is the fact that there's been an awful lot of chatter out there," Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., the ranking member of the Senate Intelligence Committee said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press." He said the chatter is "very reminiscent of what we saw pre-9/11."

On Friday, Peter King said the threat was “very specific”, not as to where but only as to when. The State Department’s related travel advisory, meanwhile, suggested the threat from Al Qaeda would be ongoing through the month of August. On a likely related note, Interpol issued a global security alert suggesting jailbreaks in Iraq, Libya, and Pakistan may all be Al Qaeda-connected. 

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  • Faceless Commenter||

    "Were the federal government still using its color-coded terror alert chart, it may have upgraded the terror threat status to read."

    Yeah, someone, do that.

  • Michael Price||

    Will someone please do something about these fucking spammers?

  • Robert||

    I always mixed that up with the amber alerts, and now they got silver alerts.

  • ||

    Happy birthday to President Barack Obama. Detroit is a Alive and Osama bin Laden is dead!

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    It was "GM is alive and OBL is dead".

    Campaign slogans tend to be shallow but that one was actually factual.

  • ||

    The implication was what I said, jackass.
    http://www.theblaze.com/storie.....-bankrupt/

    Team Obama was doing the macho dance over OBL's corpse and claiming that Al-Qaeda was 'on the run' because of the drone strikes and Obama's genius military planning.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    I don't believe this weekend threat is that credible. The spies are in a win-win scenario by alerting everyone.

    Yes, Al Qaeda is making gains in Iraq, for example. They "ran" there it appears.

    And don't taint my computer up with links to the Beckerhead's web site.

  • ||

    I don't believe this weekend threat is that credible. The spies are in a win-win scenario by alerting everyone.

    True, I think it is overstated. I also do not think, however, that the drone strikes have been as effective as the government says they are. We've been bombing the shit out of Yemen and yet those embassies there are the one's that are supposedly most vulnerable.

    And don't taint my computer up with links to the Beckerhead's web site.

    Yes, because in Beckistan even the truth is tainted by BOOOOSSSSHHHHH.

  • Almanian!||

    As I sometimes say, just to Godwin things up, "Just because Hitler said the world is a sphere doesn't mean it's wrong...."

    B-b-but...BOOOOOOOOOSHITLER!

  • ||

    Boo, Shitler!

  • Almanian!||

    I don't believe this weekend threat is that credible

    And you surmise this - what - from your prayer group or knitting clatch or something?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    I'm naturally skeptical. I don't believe much of that I am told.

  • Almanian!||

    This is...laughable, based on your past posts.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    !TerroR PimP! you believe your infallible leader, you swallow it whole.

  • Jeff||

    That's funny. You seem to believe every stupid thing that falls out of your messiah's mouth, Obama's Buttplug.

  • Boba Fudd||

    Unless IT has been told by Obama or his acolytes.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    This administration is a low-pass filter for credibility. Even things that are credible lose their credibility once the administration repeats them.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    Fuck, PB, you are exposing yourself as a terror pimp.

  • Xenocles||

    Even f the threat were not credible, then it's an operational victory for the enemy since they were able to achieve a soft kill of the embassies they may have been targeting.

    If I am a terrorist, I win if I can disrupt you. I win even more if I can do so without even deploying my forces.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    "BUSH DEFEATS SADDAM HUSSEIN"

    true

    "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"

    true, he got another warmonger elected

    "BUSH DEFEATS TALIBAN, BIN LADEN IN HIDING"

    true, a nice setup from one war-criminal to his successor. obama executes OBL with his bare hands and uses OBL's head on a pike as a campaign prop. obama saves the world from terror....oh, wait, what's this article about?

    you are more shallow than your slogan.

  • Paul.||

    GM should be dead. It's a zombie car company.

  • Killazontherun||

    Detroit is a Alive Ghost Town and Osama bin Laden is dead a martyr!

    More truth than either Team can handle.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    I think you nailed it with that observation.

  • Killazontherun||

    Bin Laden is more popular in a large segment of the war than even Ernesto Warfag.

  • Killazontherun||

    segment of the war world . . .

  • RBS||

    LOL, what? I've never heard him called "warfag" before.

  • Killazontherun||

    I just made it up, homage to Shrike's Christfag.

  • Almanian!||

    OSAMAFAG!

  • RBS||

    Well, I thought it was hilarious.

  • Killazontherun||

    Thanks, hopefully it will catch on. The man deserves derision, scorn, and to be shat upon in the history books.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    Warfag? I wonder if Obama received homosexual love from Osama before turning around and strangling him to destroy the evidence.

  • Robert||

    I thought it was Che, Che, Ho Che Min.

  • Gene||

    Nice.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Sounds like Hillary campaigning to Black people.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    Anonymous administration leak:

    "NOW WE WILL HAVE AN EXCUSE TO BOMB TEHRAN!"

    War Boners are fully erect!

  • ||

    The terrorists have won!

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    The Tar Baby.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    Let's fool them and give up.

  • Almanian!||

    I like this idea.

    "Come on in and YOU try to run this joint."

    The bitter clingers would clean out al Q in a matter of weeks. You think IED's are a bitch? You ain't seen a hick whose hunting season has been interfered with.

    Problem solved!

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    The devious terrorists have once again out-thought the clever Obama and his team. Nothing will happen and the US Govt will maintain the high alert indefinitely.

    More interventions, more drone attacks, more no-fly zones...........

  • Westmiller||

    Bingo!
    The military-industrial complex wins again: even if nothing happens, the U.S. will be burning up taxpayer assets someplace.

    I suspect that Rogers is telling *everything* he knows: "there has been a lot of chatter" and "it's somewhere in the Arab world." That passes for highly credible intelligence these days.

  • CatoTheElder||

    It also passes for "very specific" according to our leaders even though they can't identify who, where, how, when with any specificity.

    "Florida Republican Rep. Tom Rooney, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, told Fox News that U.S. intelligence agents detected a “very specific” threat and suggested they have known about it for at least several weeks."

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....z2b2Ny12hJ

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Assuming the threat is really credible, divulging the details of the threat would give AQ (or whoever it is) a clue about our intelligence gathering methods, and give them hints about which details to change.

    Of course, it's also possible that the whole thing is bullshit meant to grease the skids for the next federal power grab.

  • CatoTheElder||

    That's a mighty big assumption.

    I quit giving government officials the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    A justifiable attitude to be sure. I'm just laying out other possibilities.

  • GroundTruth||

    The later possibility is the more likely at this point... or at least I assume.

    Something about the boy who cried "wolf".

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    Obama et al and the US Govt have been arming Al Qaeda for years. Why is the Govt so worried? Fuck, the DHS and the TSA are going to fuck up everybody's vacation plans this summer.

  • Killazontherun||

    What good is all that power if you don't use it.

  • Mike M.||

    That's what they were doing in Benghazi, and what they're desperately trying to cover up by intimidating and relocating everyone who was involved, even though the cat is really already out of the bag.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Yes, the cat is out of the bag. The CIA was in some super-secret Reagan Contra style arms deal. You figured it out.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    Palin's Bitch is being very sly today with the innuendos -- too much MSNBC and FOX. Maddow and Hannity make mushy brains.

  • Mike M.||

    Don't even respond to it. It's nothing but a shit-throwing "journolist" monkey that craves our attention.

  • Drake||

    Actually he's right for once although it was the reverse deal from Iran-Contra. This time we were giving back their captured people in exchange for Libyan weapons.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Yes, the cat is out of the bag. The CIA was in some super-secret Reagan Contra style arms deal. You figured it out.

    Interesting you should mention that.

  • Redmanfms||

    Iuhhhheeee, yeah. I've always thought that something was fishy about 3 of the dudes killed there being obvious Special Activities Division operatives and the specific targeting of the annex rather than the main complex, but citing Pravda as a source?

  • Anonymous Coward||

    You actually expect the American press to give you a whiff of the truth? Hell, the Guardian had to break the NSA story. Besides, there's Abby Martin to consider. If you like them smart, hot, and just a little crazy.

  • Redmanfms||

    You actually expect the American press to give you a whiff of the truth?

    Uh, yeah, where in my post did I mention the American press?

    Hell, the Guardian had to break the NSA story.

    Is the Guardian part of the Russian government-controlled media? No? Well alrighty then....

    Besides, there's Abby Martin to consider. If you like them smart, hot, and just a little crazy.

    I don't care what the newsreaders look like, trusting Pravda is like trusting the Devil. Sure, he might be delivering the unvarnished facts if it supports his agenda, but that doesn't mean he can be trusted to do so.


    Besides, Pravda (oh, sorry, RussiaToday) wasn't the source of the story and it was reported in the Washington Times (gasp, American!!!11!!11) as far back as January.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Uh, yeah, where in my post did I mention the American press?

    You didn't, but I did. Wasn't aware that was a point of contention.

    Is the Guardian part of the Russian government-controlled media? No? Well alrighty then....

    Alrighty then, what? Was there a point made?

    I don't care what the newsreaders look like, trusting Pravda is like trusting the Devil. Sure, he might be delivering the unvarnished facts if it supports his agenda, but that doesn't mean he can be trusted to do so.

    Forgive me, I was being facetious. I'll be sure not to make that grievous error in the future.

    Besides, Pravda (oh, sorry, RussiaToday) wasn't the source of the story and it was reported in the Washington Times (gasp, American!!!11!!11) as far back as January.

    "Uh, yeah, where in my post did I mention the American pressRT broke Benghazi?"

    Unclench'em man. Just exhale, and unclench.

  • mr simple||

    IME, RT is usually good on stories that don't involve Russia, but I'd be willing to listen to evidence to the contrary. Besides, how can you not trust an anchor with a nose ring?

  • Almanian!||

    How convenient.

    It's a good thing we're focusing on these timely, credible, existential threats rather than the Rethuglicans' phony scandals.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    Maybe this is all about fuel conservation. Make everybody cancel vacations and trips. Terrorists and anti-terrorists are both friends of the environment.

  • Butler T. Reynolds||

    Well, if the threat is credible, then by all means the NSA should have free reign! If not for wacko-birds like Snowden we probably would have won the war on terror by now.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    Fuck, DHS will have mandatory cavity searches at all state border crossings.

    Poor assholes driving cross-country.

  • AlexInCT||

    I see what you did there!

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    I am going to hide under my sofa until this whole awful mess is over. Let me know!

  • ||

    What about your wife? You're just going to let her be killed and violated (hopefully in that order) by those turrists?!

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    She'll be fine. She's heavily armed.

  • Paul.||

    I prefer them heavily legged.

  • Almanian!||

    I just saw a report that your sofa is, like, the WORST place to hide.

    Do you have a boat outside? Crawl under the cover, and then...

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to hide in the kitchen pantry now. Let me know!

  • Almanian!||

    "Derka derka! Muhammed jihad!"

    "THAT, my friends, is a credible threat. SHUT DOWN THE EMBASSY"

    "RELEASE THE KRAKEN!"

  • bassjoe||

    The fact that this "terror alert" happens within 24 hours of the hearing on the NSA surveillance program in Congress I'm sure is completely coincidental.

  • Almanian!||

    Shriek says, "BOOOOOOOOOSH CHRISTFAG!"

  • Almanian!||

    Chris Christie can snort my taint.

    I just like the sound of that. It came via the Tweeters last week.

  • Rich||

    "The one thing we can talk about is the fact that there's been an awful lot of chatter out there," Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., the ranking member of the Senate Intelligence Committee said

    With all due respect, there's always "an awful lot of chatter" on *Facebook*. What shall we do about *that*?

    Seriously, if all it takes to shut down embassies and travel is a few -- pardon me, a lot of -- clowns rambling on about how "the great Satan's really gonna get it soon", we are truly screwed.

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    With a name like Saxby.......

  • Gladstone||

  • Robert||

    With a name like Fleaby Hitler....

  • Dave Krueger||

    I believe everything the government says. I think it's pure coincidence that their electronic surveillance programs (the ones under fire because the government hasn't been able to provide any convincing evidence of their effectiveness) suddenly uncovered this unprecedented threat.

    I also happen to believe that the USS Maddox, innocently minding it's own business, was attacked by North Vietnam who was interested in bringing the U.S. more heavily into the Vietnam war because they didn't feel challenged enough by the South and thought taking on a super power would be much more fun.

    I also believe the U.S. was completely neutral in WWII right up until Japan, completely unprovoked, decided to liven up their day by attacking Pearl Harbor.

    So it makes perfect sense that the U.S., after having its electronic surveillance programs exposed to the world, would suddenly pick up huge quantities of electronic messages by terrorists interested in attacking U.S. diplomatic (ie: CIA) offices because, you know, they hate us for our freedom.

    I believe all this because the U.S. government never lies and would never do anything that would jeopardize their lofty moral standards or risk losing the respect that all other nations have toward the U.S.

  • Killazontherun||

    I also happen to believe that the USS Maddox, innocently minding it's own business, was attacked by North Vietnam who was interested in bringing the U.S. more heavily into the Vietnam war because they didn't feel challenged enough by the South and thought taking on a super power would be much more fun.

    In my head, that was in the voice of Yes Man from Fallout: New Vegas.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Yes Man for White House Press Secretary!

  • Gladstone||

    Well the North Vietnamese did attack on the Maddox (which may have fired first) and did extremely minor damage (one machine gun bullet hole). This event and an apparent false alarm two days later was the Gulf of Tonkin Incident that LBJ used an excuse to further intervene in Vietnam.

  • Dave Krueger||

    But, the Maddox was not innocently minding its own business.

  • Gladstone||

    You know who else said they were innocently minding their own business?

  • ||

    Poland?

  • Nazdrakke||

    An awful lot of American dogs?

  • Almanian!||

    Every person standing on a corner minding their own business who was questioned by police? Ever?

  • CatoTheElder||

    I believe that President Clinton did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky.

    I believe that he attacked a chemical weapons plant in the Sudan to ensure our safety.

    I even believe that there's no inflation even though gas is $4/gallon, my grocery bills have skyrocketed, and my health insurance has doubled.

    All for the same reasons you stated. A democratic government is virtuous, and democratically elected governments never lie and are always peaceful unless provoked.

  • Mike M.||

    ROFL. That's awesome.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Wow, I forgot about the WMD's in Iraq! But I suppose it was obvious to everybody that Sadaam was out to enrich U235 from yellowcake despite the sanctions.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    I even believe that there's no inflation even though gas is $4/gallon, my grocery bills have skyrocketed, and my health insurance has doubled.

    I find it just a little too coincidental that the 2 things that don't get counted in the inflation index are the two facets of life that have skyrocketed in cost in the last decade. No inflation my ass.

  • Killazontherun||

    Chamblis said it was chatter awfully similar to pre-9/11. So I imagine some CIA guys caught some guys saying, 'One last night at the titty bar, my friends, and then we die soon.'

  • jester||

    Didn't just hear it. They saw it! The chatter.

  • Irish||

    Idiot college students decide to stage a robbery for a movie without informing local police, almost get shot at.

    “They had masks on, and the one had a gun in his hand, and it was clear they were ready to enter the building,” she said.

    Eight officers responded to the scene.

    A sergeant and two officers stormed into the coffee shop and saw what appeared to be two armed men. Police said one suspect froze and didn’t drop his weapon.

    One officer got ready to shoot when another intervened.

    “When he didn’t drop the gun, one of the officers reached out and pulled the gun out of his hand,” said Capt. Tim Staab of the Glendora Police Department.

    Normally I'm not on the side of the cops, but in this case those idiot kids are unbelievably lucky that this didn't end badly. Fucking morons.

  • MJGreen||

    Trying to shoot without a permit is one thing. Shooting with fake weapons without a permit or getting a cop to monitor? Fucking amateurs!

  • ||

    I applaud those cops for their restraint, they acted responsibly.

  • robc||

    Now if we can get the rest to show similar restraint.

    Considering that actually saw a "gun" in this case and didnt fire, it puts all those "I thought he was reaching for a weapon" cases in a different light.

  • Almanian!||

    FURTIVE. MOVEMENT.

  • MJGreen||

    A gun and a camera!

  • ||

    Disgusting:

    “The bottom line is we’re not broke, there’s plenty of money, it’s just the government doesn’t have it,” Ellison continued, “The government has a right, the government and the people of the United States have a right to run the programs of the United States. Health, welfare, housing – all these things.”
  • Irish||

    You'd better not call them Communists though. They aren't Communists. They just believe that all the property is the government's to be distributed as it sees fit.

  • Gladstone||

    What's wrong with "communism"? Nothing wrong with communities or communes. /Sheldon Richman

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    They just believe that all the property is the government's to be distributed as it sees fit.

    That's the opposite of what he said. He said "the government doesn't have it."

    He's calling for more taxes, which is awful but not communist.

  • Irish||

    “The government has a right, the government and the people of the United States have a right to run the programs of the United States. Health, welfare, housing – all these things.”

    You're shitting me Tulpa. His argument is that the money belongs to the government and that they have the right to collect as much of it as they want in order to run as many things as they want. Arguing that property inherently belongs to the government, that it is their right to take it, and that it's a problem that money is in the private sector is pretty much Communist ideology.

    He's also arguing that the government should run the housing market and health care. Combined that's like 40% of America's total GDP.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    His argument is that the money belongs to the government

    He didn't say that.

    and that they have the right to collect as much of it as they want in order to run as many things as they want.

    He did imply this, but that's not the same. Virtually everyone in government, from both parties, thinks the govt has the right to tax as much as they want of whatever they want. Is everyone in Washington and every state capital a communist?

  • LynchPin1477||

    If they all think like this guy, then they may not be too far off.

  • robc||

    Is everyone in Washington and every state capital a communist?

    Yes.

    Well, not everyone, but enough.

    And socialist, not communist, but really, hair-splitting.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    That's not hair splitting. There's a huge difference between socialism and communism. Ask the people who fled from communist Eastern Europe to (mostly) socialist Western Europe during the cold war.

    Communism is a horror that should not be blunted by conflation with milder stuff.

  • ||

    Ask the people who fled from communist Eastern Europe

    Hungary, for example, was nominally the People's Republic of Hungary; nothing about communism. The single party was called Hungarian Socialist Workers' Party: nothing about communism. The propaganda was that "we're building socialism"; communism was a distant, future goal.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Hungary, for example, was nominally the People's Republic of Hungary; nothing about communism.

    Holy fuck. Are you a Marxist professor just stepping out of a time machine from the 1960s?

    Whatever the official names were, Hungary was a communist country. There was no private property.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    I mean hell, none of the Eastern Bloc countries had communist or communism in their official names. Neither did the USSR or the PRC for that matter. I guess none of them were communist countries either.

  • Irish||

    His argument is that the money belongs to the government

    He didn't say that.

    Quote:

    The government has a right, the government and the people of the United States have a right to run the programs of the United States.

    Tulpa, he may not have explicitly said 'all money is the government's' but what he said has virtually identical meaning. He argued that the government has the right to take as much money as they want. In terms of policy, that is identical to arguing that all money belongs to government.

    I realize you're a huge fan of making arguments entirely based on semantics, but when two sentences functionally mean the same thing, there's not much point in arguing over minor word choice.

    Saying the government has the right to all the money it might want is the same thing as saying that the government owns all the money.

  • RBS||

    There is absolutely nothing you can say that will make the Tulpa Machine change its mind.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    How does that differ from anyone else here?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Semantics is pretty fucking important when we're talking about what someone said. It may feel good to exaggerate to villify your opponents, but by diluting the definition of communism you help the communists. Just as decades of the left calling everyone on the right "fascist" has made the word useless for identifying the villains of our time who fit the label perfectly.

    But to bring things back into the real world: in the 1960s, the effective tax rate for the highest bracket in the US was 90%. The Supreme Court ruled that there was no upper limit on the income tax rate once the 16th amendment was passed. By your definition, this means the US was effectively a communist country at the height of the Cold War. That's a pretty useless definition, no?

  • ||

    Is everyone in Washington and every state capital a communist?

    Replace 'communist' with 'statist collectivist' and answer that question.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    OK, but that's NOT THE SAME THING.

    The people Irish was inveighing against are not saying Van Jones and Ellison are fluffy lovers of liberty and capitalism, just saying that they're not communists.

  • Calidissident||

    I think Van Jones is an admitted Marxist

  • Paul.||

    Virtually everyone in government, from both parties, thinks the govt has the right to tax as much as they want of whatever they want. Is everyone in Washington and every state capital a communist?

    If they in fact believe, as you imply, that they have the right to tax us at 100%, meaning the state owns both the means and results of production, then yes.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    The government has a right, the government and the people of the United States have a right to run the programs of the United States.

    Correction: The government does not have rights. It has powers, which must be justifiable to the governed.

    Dammit, Ellison. Just when you say something I like, you come back in a few weeks and say something stupid.

  • ||

    I knew Ellison was a communist shitbag, but Christ, that almost made me puke. It sure is ugly with the mask gone.

  • AlexInCT||

    This guy isn't just a communist: he is a god damned profiteer to boot. People like Ellison see that the only way they will get to steal even more money is if their machine has more money flowing through it...

  • LynchPin1477||

    Wow. And this guy is a U.S. Rep?

  • PapayaSF||

    The first Muslim representative, too. Celebrate diversity!

  • Pope Jimbo||

    Well to be fair, Ellison has been holding a good deal of the government's money for them.

    When he was running it came out he had more than 40 tickets that he hadn't paid, and had only recently paid $25K for back taxes.

    Maybe he just thinks that everyone else owes back taxes and parking ticket money?

  • jasno||

    I wonder if the "increase in chatter" was due to the millions of smartasses who googled 'pressure cooker' and 'backpack' last week after the story broke about the blogger who was visited by her local police?

  • Anders||

    Of course its enormously serious and super secret. So I wish you'd forget about the fake scandals like the IRS, Ben's Gazzi, and the NSA.

    I wish I could elaborate more on just how serious this threat is but National Security. Let me tell you though, it has the hallmarks of 911, the Armenian Genocide, WW2, the Battle of Troy, and Agincourt.

    I have been briefed on this and it is like all the worst bits of the bible.

  • Contrarian P||

    It'll be 911 times a thousand.

  • Pope Jimbo||

    911K, Exploding Boogaloo!

  • AlexInCT||

    Jesus titty-fucking Christ!

  • The Late P Brooks||

    The situation is so dire the President granted his most esteemed Congressional emissaries more than an hour of his time.

  • Rich||

    "Let me be clear, people. We don't have much time, because I tee off at four. So, here's Valerie to give you the plan."

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    "Make no mistake."

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    "The one thing we can talk about is the fact that there's been an awful lot of chatter out there," Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., the ranking member of the Senate Intelligence Committee said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press." He said the chatter is "very reminiscent of what we saw pre-9/11."

    Is Chambliss admitting he saw terror-indicating chatter pre-9/11 and did nothing about it?

    Or is this just another instance of nuevo-once namedropping to shut up criticism?

  • Acosmist||

    The latter, I am sure.

    "9/11-caliber chatter" has a meaning only after 9/11, so, there's a possible explanation for why they didn't act on it. But it doesn't matter, because he's talking out of his ass anyway.

  • Nazdrakke||

    He said the chatter is "very reminiscent of what we saw pre-9/11.

    Which embassies were attacked on 9/11? I keep forgetting. Oh, that's right, none of them. So really this is nothing like 9/11 except that it's a useful tool for getting a certain percentage of the people to shut their brain off. Gotcha.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Depends on which 9/11 you're talking about. 9/11/2012 was of course the Benghazi attack and others.

  • Nazdrakke||

    9/11 doesn't mean Benghazi and you know that. When people talk about Benghazi they say "Benghazi."

  • Rich||

    WDATPDIM

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    I tend to agree, just mentioning the out he'll probably use if he's called on it.

  • Marc F Cheney||

    I tend to agree

    LOL. Could you say anything less Tulpa?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    not understanding this

  • Boba Fudd||

    He's implying that you're a yes-man for team blue.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    My point is that this may be a very crafty statement intended to both evoke the memory of the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks in most of the audience, AND provide a technically correct out if someone calls Chambliss on it. It's a common sophistry tactic, used very often by the BO admin and also by certain persons here at H+R.

  • Boba Fudd||

    I appreciate the honest assessment of BO. This is what separates you from Shrike. More please.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    there’s plenty of money, it’s just the government doesn’t have it

    Yet.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    The ‘Inclusive Prosperity Act’ would levy a sales tax on the trading of stocks, bonds and derivatives. Ellison estimates it would generate $300 billion in revenues annually.

    According to the bill revenue raised will go to several priorities and, “fund international sustainable prosperity programs such as health care investments, AIDS treatment, research and prevention programs, climate change adaptation and mitigation efforts by developing countries, and international assistance."

    Squandered then.

  • Ayn Random Variation||

    "....fund international sustainable prosperity programs..."

    I lol'd at "sustainable". It's such an overused "progressive" buzz word that they just randomly throw it in anywhere.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    I don't think it's randomly thrown in; "sustainable prosperity" is a leftist pipe dream that fits in with the climate change shout-out.

  • PapayaSF||

    The ‘Inclusive Prosperity Act’

    I despise it already, and know it will never work.

  • DJF||

    “”Government Terror Alert Very Serious According to Politicians”””

    I always take Government Terror very seriously.

  • anon||

    Another day, another line of bullshit fed to us by our rulers.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    The BO administration is like a credibility black hole. (no racism intended)

    Even if these threats were originally credible, once they touch them the credibility is gone.

  • Rich||

    "I've been briefed on them, and, believe me, they're credible!"

  • Anonymous Coward||

  • Sunken Idaho||

    A lot of the "chatter" concerned top Al Qaeda leaders dismissing the pagan offering of Smurfs 2 and instead going to see Denzel & Wahlberg in 2 Guns. Lock your doors.

  • Rich||

    He said the chatter is "very reminiscent of what we saw pre-9/11."

    What with being in Arabic and all.

  • SugarFree||

    Hugo Schwyzer attempts suicide AND a new Doctor is revealed. Go home, Sunday... you're news drunk.

  • ||

    Not everyone can handle the amount of self-loathing needed to be a 'male feminist' who pontificates on the shame of 'white male privilege'.

  • SugarFree||

    I wonder if he tried to take some poor woman with him, like the last time he tried to kill himself.

  • Irish||

    He did do it at his mom's house.

    Sidenote: Is there anything slimier than trying to off yourself at your mother's house? You're seriously going to make your mom walk in on your body and have to deal with that?

    Everything Hugo Schwyzer seems to do victimizes a woman in some way. He's like every negative thing feminists say about men, and yet he claims to be one of them.

  • ||

    You mean like how so many rabidly anti-gay preacher dudes eventually get caught with rent boys? Because it's the same thing.

  • Redmanfms||

    Everything Hugo Schwyzer seems to do victimizes a woman in some way. He's like every negative thing feminists say about men, and yet he claims to be one of them.

    Which is a character trait shared, to some degree, by nearly all leftist/feminist men. Which I've long thought is the reason behind the visceral hatred feminists/leftist women have for men, because all of the men surrounding them as fellow ideological travelers are scumbags who treat women like dirt.

  • SugarFree||

    Good point.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Is there anything slimier than trying to off yourself at your mother's house?

    Nope, he's about as slimy as they come. Ironically enough, making your mom find your remains in her own home is about as close as one can come to emotional rape that one can come.

    What a piece of shit. Too bad he didn't finish the job.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    If your mother is Andrea Yates it probably wouldn't be so bad.

  • RBS||

    The California community college professor who recently announced that he will no longer teach a course called “Navigating Pornography” attempted suicide on Thursday night.
  • AlmightyJB||

    Yeah, getting paid to porn serf with college girls and than losing that would be pretty depressing.

  • Ted S.||

    I wish I had porn serfs.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Navigating Pornography

    "Is that a compass in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"

    The sextant double-entendres do get a little tiresome after a while.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Damn, I thought they were gonna get the red haired chick from AbFab to play the new doctor. That would've been good. Nope, just another lanky brit.

    In hot sauce news, I just completed my first batch of Butt Naked Savina Sauce for the summer and it's fucking good. Gonna put this shit on everything.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Do you grow your own Savinas? Bars around here have been coming up with some version of a Hot Hamburger with jalepenos and pepper cheese and their hottest wing sauce. Lovin it.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Yeah, I got 4 growing now. Three of them have green pods, but one of them is covered in beautiful red globes. I didn't have enough to make powder so I decided to make some sauce.

    It's a simple recipe:

    2 cups chopped peppers
    2 cloves garlic
    1/4 med sweet onion
    salt, pepper, brown sugar, vinegar to taste
    water to thin as I blend them

    I have a squeeze bottle that holds 2 cups and after cooking the above it fills exactly. I'm considering doing the same recipe but with ghost peppers, once they ripen.

    Some people go nuts with all sorts of fruit and spices in their sauce, but I like it to be simple. That way I can use it on everything without a flavor clash.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Yeah that looks awesome. Thanks for sharing the recipe. I have a bunch of jalapenos ready to be picked now. Was thinking about doing some fresnos because my wife likes them but never got around to ordering the seeds. I've never had a savina or a ghost pepper. Pretty hard to come by around here unless you grow them. I may just have to do that:) I love habenaros.

  • General Butt Naked||

    The savinas taste like habaneros but are a bit sweeter and hotter. Ghost peppers are just fucking hot, but when added to stuff kinda taste habanero-y.

  • mr simple||

    You sure do know how to make a fella's mouth water.

  • Ted S.||

    You mean the hot peppers don't clash with whatever else you're eating?

    (I had a friend in college who was from Cambodia, and when I commented that some of the Cambodian food he was making was too spicy, he said that it was actually quite mild.)

  • General Butt Naked||

    No, they don't clash. Once you start eating really spicy food it becomes addictive. It's like food is missing something if it doesn't have some heat.

    Kinda like eating something vegetarian for dinner. Sure you may get filled up but you feel like you didn't really eat.

  • AlexInCT||

    "No, they don't clash. Once you start eating really spicy food it becomes addictive. It's like food is missing something if it doesn't have some heat."

    That's because your taste buds have been damaged and you no longer taste things right... ;)

  • Boba Fudd||

    I want some. Now that the kids are eating supper with the grown ups I've had to scale back my capsaicin intake, to my dismay. A good sauce would be handy.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Damn, I thought they were gonna get the red haired chick from AbFab to play the new doctor. That would've been good. Nope, just another lanky brit.

    Another lanky Brit?!? It's Malcolm fucking Tucker!

    (no prediction of his future performance as the Doctor or the direction of the show)

  • Cdr Lytton||

  • Anonymous Coward||

    “I took an entire bottle of Klonopin,” Schwyzer told the Weekly.

    Klonopin is a muscle-relaxing drug typically used to treat seizures, panic disorder and anxiety.

    Oh look, teen girl, cry-for-help suicide, not put on dress blues, stick your service piece in your mouth and pull the trigger.

    He made a few waves in February when he invited porn star James Deen to lecture at Pasadena City College.

    Jenna Haze wasn't available?

    Schwyzer, who has tenure, was reportedly worried that the fling would ruin his career because he has been an outspoken critic of middle-aged “creeps” who pursue considerably younger women.

    Guilt + Projection = Tenure. So that's what I did wrong in college.

  • Boba Fudd||

    Of course, he fails. What a miserable piece of shit. I think that life is a greater punishment for him than death...maybe.

  • Render Unto Caesar||

    Up next, stories about how metadata collection aided in saving the day!

    NSA to the rescue!

    Very convenient timing for the security hawks...

  • Jerry on the boat||

    How dense do they have to be? Hey you guys, let's just put out a terror alert so that news about the NSA can be reshuffled to the dustbin. And of course Peter King is leading the troops, they must be really afraid of the wacko birds.

  • AlmightyJB||

    They're Super Cereal this time!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h05YfP_8UsU

  • General Butt Naked||

    I had no idea that there was a jew gene.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Jewess Jeans
    they're skin-tight, they're out of sight
    Jewess Jeans.

    She's got a lifestyle uniquely hers
    Europe, Nassau, wholesale furs.
    She's read every best-selling book
    She's a gourmet blender cook.
    She's got that Jewess look.

    Jewess Jeans
    they're uptight, alright
    Jewess Jeans.

    She shops the sales for designer clothes
    She's got designer nails and a designer nose.
    She's an American princess and a disco queen.
    She's the Jewess in Jewess Jeans.

  • Almanian!||

    +Gilda Radner

  • Calidissident||

    Well obviously there's no way to tell if someone is religiously Jewish from DNA, but ethnically Jewish people do have unique DNA markers, as they are largely descended from a Middle East population that migrated to various places, so it is possible to tell them apart from preexisting local populations via DNA testing.

  • Irish||

    There are tons of Jewish descendants living in Africa descended from Jews who had immigrated there thousands of years earlier. They claimed to be descended from Jews but no one believed them until DNA testing became available. They ran the exact DNA test you describe and it turned out that they were actually descended from Jews who had migrated 1500 years earlier.

  • Calidissident||

    It's not conclusive, but mutliple studies have provided some evidence for the notion that Ethiopian Jews are partially descended from Middle Eastern Jewish populations (though the most recent ones suggest that the migration took place 2,000+ years ago, not 1,500, which would fit in with the fact that Ethiopian Jews did not celebrate Hannukah until modern times, as it celebrates events that took place in the 2nd century BC). I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that if this is indeed the case, that the migrating Jews mixed with the local people

  • General Butt Naked||

    Are you saying that the jews are a bunch of inbreds?

    That's kinda hitler-ish, dude.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    That's something Hitler actually admired about the Jews -- their ability to maintain "race purity" for thousands of years.

  • General Butt Naked||

    If jews are a race and part of being in that race is believing that you are chosen by god for being in that race, isn't that some racist shit right there?

    I mean, if I started telling people that white people are god's chose people, you'd think me racist, no?

    I think people walling themselves off is just as stupid as walling others out.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Everybody's racist. And if you disagree you're racist too.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Not to mention that they flood the supermarkets with their sucrose-contaminated Coke and then don't buy it, forcing the rest of us Gentiles to drink it.

  • BlueBook||

    I dunno about that, but those IDF babes certainly seem to have the hawtness gene.

  • Boba Fudd||

    Never searched for IDF babes before, but I'm glad I did. Thanks. I will send my son to Israel during his college years.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Iseal followed by pointing out that Russians who fail this test will, of course, have full rights but will, in the interest of public order, be required to display a red sickle and hammer emblem prominently on their clothing while in public.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    You know, the Israelis had pieces of flair that they made the Russkies wear...

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    There's a Putin Bar in Israel?

  • AlmightyJB||

    In Russia, DNA test you. I was taught that all Russians were bastards.

  • Render Unto Caesar||

    Advice from friend while waiting in the JFK airport: "I'll be there to get you in a minute. Don't talk to any Russians."

  • AlmightyJB||

    "authorities were stunned that the group broke “operational security” — meaning they talked likely knowing it would be picked up by intercepts."

    that's cause they know they can create more havoc with chatter than actual operations. Now they just need to leave a few backpacks laying around.

    http://news.yahoo.com/us-offic.....itics.html

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Good catch.

    If the CYA mentality didn't pervade our security apparatus this would have been taken as an obvious false alarm/diversion.

    9/11 proved that a successful terrorist attack on your watch is OK as long as you can claim you didn't know about it.

  • BlueBook||

    "President Obama!"

    "Yes?"

    "Some men in the Middle East are chatting!"

    "Shut...

    Down...

    EVERYTHING."

  • Bam!||

    Nonsense. This isn't Boston. Obama would probably just shutdown his enemies.

  • Cytotoxic||

    The Corporate Right-Wing Agenda Is Driving Thousands of Americans to Attempt Suicide
    The very same austerity policies that Republicans in Washington are constantly pushing on us are the same policies that are driving Americans to kill themselves.

    http://www.alternet.org/commen.....qus_thread

  • Irish||

    Alternet is psychotic. There's no point in reading them. Alternet is the place that Huffington Post commenters look at with shock, horror, and disgust.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Amazon Is Worse Than Walmart
    The company's war on bookstores and book culture is increasingly supported by, yes, the Obama administration.

    http://www.alternet.org/amazon-worse-walmart

    War. Book culture.

  • Sevo||

    Cytotoxic| 8.4.13 @ 7:25PM |#
    "Amazon Is Worse Than Walmart
    The company's war on bookstores and book culture is increasingly supported by, yes, the Obama administration."

    No way I'm clicking on that link, but one of the brain-dead Chron columnists was griping that Obama delivered a speech at an Amazon warehouse:
    1) Amazon pays some of the employees almost minimum wage!
    2) Amazon's warehouses are big! The workers have to walk long distances!
    3) Amazon requires warehouse workers to lift heavy stuff!
    I'm pretty sure Andrew Ross (the brain-dead) never mowed a lawn.

  • General Butt Naked||

    But they're not exactly the kind of middle-class jobs some might imagine.

    I wouldn't imagine a job putting stuff in boxes would be middle class.

    They mostly involve picking, packing and shipping the millions of goods the world's largest online retailer sells to consumers all over the country.

    Ummmmm, and?

    Average annual salary, including bonuses: $29,000 - 54 percent lower than average salaries for all job postings nationwide, Indeed.com said.

    Ohhh, indeed.com, indeed. Dang. Fuck if that ain't a good livin' for a single guy.

    Based on a quick survey of job descriptions and employee experiences recounted online, an awful lot of walking is involved - the warehouses in Tracy and Patterson (Stanislaus County) are in the 1 million-square-foot range - there's some heavy lifting, the shifts are long and the breaks (30 minutes for lunch) are few and short.

    Oh jesus, imagine someone actually having to work for a living. I know this chronicle writer can't.

    At the same time, health insurance is offered for full-time workers, as are stock grants, a 401(k) plan, and a career advancement program for which the company will pick up most of the tab, "regardless of whether the skills they learn are relevant to a career at Amazon."

    The bastards.

    Amazon says it currently employs over 20,000 people...

    THE BASTARDS!

  • General Butt Naked||

    Oops, linky for sevo's favorite columnist.

  • Sevo||

    Got it.

  • Sevo||

    GBN, it looks like you found Ross' column; where?
    I looked to see if I could link it, but couldn't find it.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I googled "sf chronicle amazon obama" and got a link.

  • Sevo||

    GBN, I should have done that. I tried a search on the SF Gate site and should know better.

  • BlueBook||

    Books are made with the flesh of murdered trees. Why do bookstores hate the Earth Mother?

  • Boba Fudd||

    +1 Shel Silverstein.

  • Irish||

    Everyone should read that article. It is goddamn wonderful.

    And Amazon felt confident enough last week — with Wall Street satisfied, bookstores reeling and the Justice Department going after publishers — to radically slash prices on many best-selling hardcovers to nearly unseen levels: $9.09 for Sheryl Sandberg’s “Lean In,” $11.65 for Dan Brown’s “Inferno.” That’s less than most paperbacks, and led one bookseller to call it a brazen “declaration of war.”

    “They’ve devalued the concept of what a book is, and turned it into a widget,” said Melville House publisher Dennis Johnson, one of Amazon’s most prominent critics. He also alleged that major publishers were afraid to speak on the record about Amazon’s tactics for fear of retribution.

    OH NO! They've made books cheap?!?! Those monsters! Why do they want poor people to be able to buy less expensive books? Why do they want to help literacy among the poor and lower middle classes?

    Not only that but 'they've devalued what a book is?' I don't even know how that's possible, since a book is only the collection of words between the covers and what they tell you. That would imply that it's impossible to devalue a book simply by selling it differently.

    I'm probably wrong though. I'm not a Melville House bookseller, unfortunately, so I lack the credentials for my opinion to matter.

  • Sevo||

    "I don't even know how that's possible, since a book is only the collection of words between the covers and what they tell you. That would imply that it's impossible to devalue a book simply by selling it differently."

    Well, some books are 'devalued' as soon as they're printed regardless of how they are sold.
    I was given "The Great Unraveling" by Krugmen; the paper was worth more before the words were printed on it.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Krugmen

    Oh my gawd, it's multiplying! RUN!!!

  • Sevo||

    Yer lucky you didn't misspell something...

  • General Butt Naked||

    Dude, I'm the worst speller in the world.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Obligatory:

    "Beware of the Krug!"

  • CatoTheElder||

    “They’ve devalued the concept of what a book is..."

    I'm sure that there were monks back in the 15th Century who said the same about Gutenberg.

  • Agammamon||

    I'm just waiting for Amazon to stop screwing around and cut stop charging paper prices for e-books.

  • Sevo||

    Agammamon| 8.4.13 @ 9:06PM |#
    "I'm just waiting for Amazon to stop screwing around and cut stop charging paper prices for e-books."

    C'mon. You got an app that'll do that, beat their butts into the ground.
    Until then, it's the market clearing price and not a penny less.

  • Agammamon||

    What app?

    And I know they're charging full price because they can. I'd just like to see them cut the prices by 25% or more (and put all the B&M stores out of business overnight) so I can get the books I want in e-book format in the first place - lot's of stuff I read isn't available as an e-book.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    You had to link to the comments section, didn't you? Now I want to kill myself too.

    The Corporate Right-Wing Agenda Is Driving Thousands of Americans to Attempt Suicide but they can't afford the bullet/rope/entire jar of pills/sharp knife to get the job done.

  • JeremyR||

    Corporatism is really left wing, since it relies on a big government...

  • AlmightyJB||

    Unique trend? Trend maybe but not unique.

    http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickP....._pageNum_1

  • mr simple||

    Maybe they meant unique as in it's the only trend that occurs.

  • The Hyperbole||

    that's nice and I'm glad it fits the Gun-nutters narrative (I kid I love guns and their owners) but how do those stats fair against the overall drop in crime rates that has been going on for decades now. If the drop in crimes isn't significantly above the average it's kinda specious to pin it to some behavior that you just happen to agree with.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Good point. It certainly flies in the face of the wild west narrative though.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "The International Court of Justice in The Hague has been asked to revisit a 2,000-year-old case–convening a re-trial of Jesus Christ and prosecuting those responsible for his unlawful conviction.

    "Dola Indidis, a Kenyan lawyer who is former spokesman for Kenya’s Judiciary, has built his case on facts which you already know: that Jesus’ trial before Pontius Pilate was invalid, because it was “conducted in a manner contrary to a fair trial.” Indidis hopes to persuade the ICJ to issue a declaratory judgment that the trial judgment and sentence entered were badly done, and were therefore null and void.

    "According to the Jerusalem Post, Indidis is reportedly attempting to sue Tiberius (emperor of Rome, 42 BCE-37 CE), Pontius Pilate, a selection of Jewish elders, King Herod, the Republic of Italy and the State of Israel. A Kenyan TV report adds Palestine to that list of criminal offenders who are being sued by Indidis on behalf of a group called “Friends of Jesus.”"

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/k.....the-hague/

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    No mention of Satan.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    As "ruler of this world" he claimed sovereign immunity.

  • Sevo||

    "Dola Indidis, a Kenyan lawyer who is former spokesman for Kenya’s Judiciary, has built his case on facts which you already know: that Jesus’ trial before Pontius Pilate was invalid, because it was “conducted in a manner contrary to a fair trial.” "

    The problem here is that there was no "Jesus", so claiming a fictional trial of a fictional character was invalid sort of leaves you as a laughing-stock.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Hmmm, I forgot that I'd left the sevo signal on. Hi, sevo!

  • General Butt Naked||

    It's like dunphy, but with jesus.

  • Sevo||

    'It's like dunphy, but with unicorns.'
    Fixed.

  • Sevo||

    Hi, Eduard!
    Yep, if I'm looking and someone makes silly comments about junior, it's likely to get a response. Promoting superstition is pretty obnoxious.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I actually *wasn't* agreeing with the Kenyan. I suppose technically it could be considered trolling, but it's the good kind - the kind that lets you respond by expressing your innermost feelings.

  • Sevo||

    Eduard van Haalen| 8.4.13 @ 9:14PM |#
    I actually *wasn't* agreeing with the Kenyan."...

    I didn't think you were; I thought you were just tossing some bait out there. And my response was to your post, not to you personally.
    Hey, a Sunday evening kicking comments back and forth; no harm done...

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    My troll-fu is the best - it has no equal.

  • ||

    My troll-fu is the best - it has no equal.

    That's bold especially since American made an appearance up thread. Your troll-fu is legendary, but I don't know about without equal.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    We'll see if you still believe that when you're licking the cheese from demons' toes in hell for blasphemy.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Couldn't be any worse than arguing with you.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Wow, GBN, that's quite the catty response. You remind me of the ex-girlfriend I had to pee on.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Wouldn't you have to have a girlfriend to have an ex girlfriend?

  • Agammamon||

    If *you* peed on *her*, who's really the catty one?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    You guys are not helping my self-confidence much.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Leave it to a Kenyan lawyer to fuck everything up.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Pretty sure there were many people named "Yeshua" (the Hebrew equivalent) in first century Judaea. Probably a bunch of them from Nazareth.

  • Sevo||

    Tulpa (LAOL-VA)| 8.4.13 @ 9:12PM |#
    "Pretty sure there were many people named "Yeshua" (the Hebrew equivalent) in first century Judaea. Probably a bunch of them from Nazareth."

    You bet! And Jesus did a hell of a job on the roof last week.
    Did you have a point?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    You put Jesus up in the hot sun with nails and wood? You should be a co-defendant.

  • Sevo||

    Tulpa (LAOL-VA)| 8.4.13 @ 9:17PM |#
    "You put Jesus up in the hot sun with nails and wood? You should be a co-defendant."

    Your fantasies are, well, boring. Or ugly.

  • Agammamon||

    Uhm, there are no court transcripts so how can anyone possibly know that the trial was “conducted in a manner contrary to a fair trial."?

    I mean there's not any reliable evidence the Christ even *existed* let alone what happened at his trial.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Dude, if jesus never existed, how the hell will I know how to feel about queers and abortions?

    I'd have to like think about stuff, and stuff.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    There's as much evidence for Jesus existing as there is for Socrates existing.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    More actually.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    So, at least two disciples writing about him?

  • Sevo||

    Tulpa (LAOL-VA)| 8.4.13 @ 9:14PM |#
    "There's as much evidence for Jesus existing as there is for Socrates existing."

    You've posted that lie several times. It remains a lie; are you trying for the shreek level of lying piece of shit?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    So, uh, what is the evidence of Socrates existing, and is it better than the evidence for Jesus?

  • The Hyperbole||

    I'm no historian or theologian but this is interesting. Socrates and Jesus aside, what exactly constitutes proof that one existed and who would be the earliest person that it is posible to prove existed?.

  • Sevo||

    The Hyperbole| 8.4.13 @ 9:31PM |#
    "I'm no historian or theologian but this is interesting. Socrates and Jesus aside, what exactly constitutes proof that one existed and who would be the earliest person that it is posible to prove existed?."

    See below. "Proving" a person of X name existed in pre-history isn't really possible, which fact Xians hope to use to confuse the fact that there is zero evidence of god-junior's existence.
    Suffice to say, there is some pretty strong evidence that a teacher named Socrates existed and there is zero evidence that some miracle worker named Jesus did.
    The false equivalence is used by superstitionists in the hopes no one will notice, right Tulpa?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Sevo, your original claim was that Jesus didn't exist period. Not that Jesus didn't perform miracles. i'm afraid I'm going to have to flag you for goalpost-moving.

  • Sevo||

    Tulpa (LAOL-VA)| 8.4.13 @ 9:59PM |#
    "Sevo, your original claim was that Jesus didn't exist period."

    Well, that's not bad for a sophist.
    You're right; I should have simply stated there is and was zero evidence for that person.
    I stand corrected. Now what sort of sophistry are you going to offer?

  • General Butt Naked||

    I guess socrates doesn't have a bunch of gay ass followers carrying his water online millennium later.

    There are a bunch of assholes "just asking questions" though.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "I guess socrates doesn't have a bunch of gay ass followers carrying his water online millennium later."

    Are you familiar with the Socratic Method? Are you aware that's a way for jerks to imitate Socrates by asking questions in the form of propositions with which they pretty much have to agree? Isn't that annoying as heck? And didn't Socrates start it?

  • General Butt Naked||

    Can you read?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "There are a bunch of assholes "just asking questions" though."

    You think I didn't read it? Did you phrase your point in the form of a question? If not, how it truly be Socratic?

  • Anonymous Coward||

    I guess socrates doesn't have a bunch of gay ass followers carrying his water online millennium later.

    We usually call them law professors. Not bad for a perpetually poor, crotchety old man with a death wish.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    I guess socrates doesn't have a bunch of gay ass followers carrying his water online millennium later.

    Platofags!

  • Sevo||

    Pretty simple.
    The existence of Socrates requires no connection to a mythical being nor to miracles; it may be true he didn't exist, but no great evidence is required to prove his existence.
    The existence of a junior does require extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary existence.
    So, while I have no concrete proof of Socrates existence, I have no requirement of proving magic to accept what evidence there is. If you chose, please offer proof of junior's existence, including the extraordinary evidence.
    This is simply one more example of Tulpa's sleazy sophistry.
    Hey, Tulpa, you asshole! I thought you claimed you were going away since you'd been called on your bullshit too often!

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    One thing is for sure: Socrates exists in our hearts whenever we force people to question their deeply held suppositions and they lash out in anger.

    (Or when we rub our membra on our students' legs)

  • Sevo||

    Tulpa (LAOL-VA)| 8.4.13 @ 9:55PM |#
    "One thing is for sure: Socrates exists in our hearts whenever we force people to question their deeply held suppositions and they lash out in anger."

    What school gave you the degree in sophistry?

  • Agammamon||

    Really dude, show me some evidence that comes from Christ's actual lifetime and not, say, a century later.

    Show me the evidence (outside of the bible) where the census of Quinrinius required everyone to return to their towns to be registered.

    Explain how to reconcile the biblical description of the census in Luke can be reconciled with Mark's description of the birth happening during Herod's reign.

    In addition, no historical sources mention a census of the Roman world which would cover the entire population. Those of Augustus covered Roman citizens only, and it was not the practice in Roman censuses to require people to return to their ancestral homes.

    From what I've seen, the 'historical evidence' of Christ's existence is that some guy named Jesus existed at around that time and preached. About 99% of the 'facts' of Christ's life don't match the historical record.

    Based on that level of accuracy, we could say that freaking Atlantis existed.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    You talk about disputes over the circumstances of His birth, not debate over His existence.

    And I'm no expert, but getting lists of taxpayers, citizens or not, seems like something a revenue-hungry empire might do, but something that aristocratic Roman citizens might not record since it was beneath them to notice such things.

  • Agammamon||

    The Romans were pretty good record-keepers - you don't get to be a large empire for long unless you are.

    And the birth bit is just the start. Almost nothing of the description of Christ's life, where it isn't outright contradicted in other parts, in the bible matches the historical record.

    As such, my opinion is that saying that "hey we've got evidence that some dude named Jesus existed in approximately the right timeframe" is the equivalent of the Atlantis freaks pointing to some submerged rock and saying "well, it almost matches Plato's description - close enough".

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I'm not denying the Romans kept records - I'm just wondering if all the records survived.

    They used to doubt there was a Pontius Pilate. Then they found an inscription with his name.

    Even the Jesus Seminar people - who try to throw out as much of the Bible as they can - don't deny that the Biblical descriptions of Jesus refer to an actual historical personage. St. Paul was describing such a person within a generation.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Totally missed Eduard's post for some reason.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    The Romans were pretty good record-keepers - you don't get to be a large empire for long unless you are.

    They may have been good record-keepers, but there's been a lot lost in the intervening 2000 years. Pontius Pilate was prefect of an entire province for a decade and there's very, very little evidence of anything he did outside of Christian accounts. The first physical evidence that he existed was a building fragment discovered in 1961.

    If it's that tough to confirm the existence of a high-ranking govt official, what chance does a whacky hillbilly executed preacher have?

  • Agammamon||

    Which was my damn point from the beginning - there's practically no evidence 'Jesus' existed and none for the Christ.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    No, it means that the alleged absence of Roman government records doesn't prove there was no Jesus. There are plenty of records from His followers, a reference in Josephus, a reference in Tacitus, Pliny describing faithful Christians who kept the faith unto death - evidence which is generally more contemporaneous than the evidence for various Roman historical figures.

    Do you you doubt the writings of numerous private persons because they're not backed up by extant government records?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    And, really, are there other private citizens whose existence is confirmed by existing Roman govt records? Most of the records I've heard of relate to government employees like emperors and governors.

  • Sevo||

    Eduard van Haalen| 8.4.13 @ 10:22PM |#
    "No, it means that the alleged absence of Roman government records doesn't prove there was no Jesus."

    OK, now I am calling idiocy.
    Anyone reading that post will presume it was typed by an idiot.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    But that's crap. Very, very few people who existed at that time have any evidence of their existence, so lack of non-Christian evidence for existence doesn't have any implications for existence.

    It's dirty pool to throw out his followers' writings and then say there's no evidence.

  • Sevo||

    Tulpa (LAOL-VA)| 8.4.13 @ 10:22PM |#
    "But that's crap. Very, very few people who existed at that time have any evidence of their existence,"

    Are you really that stupid? Are you a bleever such that you'll abandon any claim of logic.
    Listen, asshole; extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
    Got any? Or are you just cruising on stupidity?

  • Irish||

    ^^ This subthread is terrible and I hate it.

  • Sevo||

    Irish| 8.4.13 @ 11:06PM |#
    "^^ This subthread is terrible and I hate it."

    I'm curious; why do you hate stupid bleevers called on stupid bleefs
    You claim to be a rational person, but you gripe when I call people on superstitions.
    Why is that?

  • Irish||

    I'm curious; why do you hate stupid bleevers called on stupid bleefs
    You claim to be a rational person, but you gripe when I call people on superstitions.
    Why is that?

    Because I really don't care if people are religious and I find it annoying when you start flame wars over dumb religious topics.

    It is possible to be an atheist and really not care about the religious beliefs of other people. In fact, that's one of the benefits.

  • Calidissident||

    I'm not a Christian, and as such, do not believe Jesus Christ was the son of God and all that, but I still think there most likely was a prominent Jewish religious figure named Jesus who preached new teachings. Perhaps he claimed to be the son of God, or maybe that was all made up by his followers afterwards, but I don't think the fact that I don't think he was divine means he didn't exist at all

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.4.13 @ 11:08PM |#
    "I'm not a Christian, and as such, do not believe Jesus Christ was the son of God and all that, but I still think there most likely was a prominent Jewish religious figure named Jesus who preached new teachings."

    Great.
    Got any evidence?

  • Calidissident||

    Not including the Bible, there a few 1st century non-Christian historians who make reference to Christ in their writings. While it's true that these accounts were not written during his lifetime, that doesn't mean they aren't evidence of his existence (evidence is not the same thing as proof btw. I'm not sure how you could prove the existence of someone who lived in the first century and was not a military or administrative leader). Herodotus was five years old when the Second Greco-Persian War ended, and wrote about it decades later, but no one would suggest that The Histories are not evidence about the Greco-Persian Wars.

  • Agammamon||

    Also, "sue the state of Israel"? How can you sue an entity that both didn't exist at the time and has no continuity to the entities which *did* exist?

    At least asbestos lawyers can only sue you if they can show a chain of business purchases back to a business that manufactured or sold asbestos - and those guys have been instrumental in getting wide latitude out of the courts.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    If the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is to be believed, the Sanhedrin has been meeting in secret for 2000 years so they probably should be suing them.

  • Agammamon||

    Whelp, I suppose if you're crazy enough to bring this sort of lawsuit you'd probably believe that crap to.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    The banks have the money -- or they wouldn't be banks -- and they are run by Jews...

    How are you guys not getting this?

  • Calidissident||

    The Republic of Italy also didn't exist and doesn't have much continuity with the Roman Empire, besides having the same capital and holding the descendants of the Romans

  • Hyperion||

    Just drove back across the Mason-Dixon line and arrived south of line, again.

    I had a news free weekend, and now I see that there was some terrorist alert and gubmint can't decide if the biggest threat is Jesus or Socrates?

  • Agammamon||

    ". . . and gubmint can't decide if the biggest threat is Jesus or Socrates?"

    That *was* the terror alert.

  • Hyperion||

    I has a confused... So was it Jesus, or Socrates, or Godzilla that is under our beds?

    Oh... you mean gubmint is the threat!, ... is there any NEW news?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    That's one big bed!

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    The only good part in the 2000 Godzilla movie:

    "We lost him, sir."

    "What?"

  • Hyperion||

    Well, maybe Islam will win and I will get a harem with my forced membership.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Passion or Apology?

    You decide!

  • Agammamon||

    https://www.everquestnext.com/

    Procedurally generated content
    Sandbox play
    Deformable terrain (including buildings)with player-generated content and permanent changes
    Voxel engine

    If this plays out, then screw ESO.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Thanks for ruining sexism for everyone else, jerk!

  • Agammamon||

    So . . . you're just finding out that IDF chicks are hawt?

    And are you saying that the US, Canada, Western Europe (among others) are also trying to steal Paletine?

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    We want this?

  • Agammamon||

    Apparently having women in your military means that you're trying to steal Palestine.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "You sold all our land...in exchange for watching some chicks Twerking?"

    "But, Achmed, you should have seen the butts on them..."

  • Agammamon||

    Uh, among 'civilised' countries, damn near every single one has women in their militaries.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    And very few have conscription of anyone, so I'm not sure what American! is on about.

  • Agammamon||

    Neither am I - well, outside of kneejerk anti-Semitism and anti-non-Americanism.

  • Agammamon||

    So you're a sexist, anti-Semite, anti-non-American?

  • Agammamon||

    Oh, and let's get back on topic - what the fuck is your point in the original post?

  • Irish||

    There is a difference between having women in your military and conscripting them.(real libertarian ain't it!)

    I am not an anti-Semite.

    Yes, but conscription is wrong in general. Conscription is no more wrong when it's conscripting women than it is when it's conscripting men.

  • Irish||

    I honestly don't know whether Jewish females are more attractive than gentile females. I'd like to see a study done on it, although political correctness has probably prevented one from ever being published.

    The fact that American thinks we can run a study to prove whether one race is more attractive than another, something which is totally subjective, says so many hilarious things about him.

    Never change, you eugenicist psychopath.

  • Calidissident||

    "Next you're going to tell me I think fat women are ugly because of the patriarchy? Because it's all "subjective" right?"

    Beauty is completely subjective in that a given person could potentially be attracted to anyone. There are some real guys out there that are really into fat women, for example. That said, there are obviously general trends in what men find attractive. 99% of straight men are going to find Megan Fox or Salma Hayek more attractive than Rosie O'Donnell. How much beauty standards are biological versus cultural is difficult to measure, though science suggests that both are factors. Because different cultures and groups may find a given woman more attractive than other groups will, it's difficult to objectively quantify attractiveness, since that would be heavily weighted by the population size of each group.

  • Calidissident||

    "If you are willing to concede that fat women are found by 99% of men to be unattractive, you must admit that some facial types are also unattractive."

    That wasn't my point at all. My point was (illustrated with the following example) this: If Cultural Group A finds a woman of Facial Type A more attractive than a woman of Facial Type B, but Cultural Group B holds the opposite view, how can you say which woman is objectively more attractive? By which cultural group is larger?

  • Irish||

    something which is totally subjective

    Next you're going to tell me I think fat women are ugly because of the patriarchy? Because it's all "subjective" right?

    Since there are countries which think obesity is a sign of wealth and therefore find it attractive, I would say that what people find attractive often is based on culture.

    There are African tribes that use those lobe stretching things to stretch out their earlobes, and even their lips. That would be considered disgusting in America, but African tribes find it attractive and normal.

    Most of the world has relatively 'western' standards of beauty in modern times because the west has been hyper-powerful and most nations that have tried to become successful have therefore adopted our culture. That doesn't change the fact that if, say, Mauritania became a super power people might very well fall into their cultural sphere and start finding fat women attractive.

  • Calidissident||

    I learned in an anthropology class that there was a study taken that looked at the beauty standards regarding body figure in many different cultures around the world, as well as different points in time of certain cultures, and while there were differences in what size was considered ideal, almost all of the cultures had a preference for an identical or similar ratio of body proportions. Which supports my assertion that beauty standards are to some extent both biological and cultural

  • Calidissident||

    "How can these very subtle differences be explained by culture?"

    Where did I imply that women having different facial features is due to culture? And if you noticed, I have explicitly said more than once in this thread that culture is not the sole determinant of beauty standards. I think biology is extremely important, and in my opinion more important than culture, especially when we're talking about, as you say "subtle differences" between two women. I think the vast majority of men in the vast majority of cultures would find the first woman more attractive than the second. It's a lot more complex when you're comparing girls of different looks, ethnicities, races, etc. (and in case you forgot, you started this thread by wondering whether Jewish women as a group are more or less attractive than non-Jewish women).

  • General Butt Naked||

    So . . . you're just finding out that IDF chicks are hawt?

    Are they? Just about every 18 year old Israeli girl is required to serve in the military. How many have we seen pictures of? 40? 50? I bet you could put together a "Girls of Walmart website and have more hot chix.

  • Agammamon||

    Well, based on the internet and my own (limited) experience from the times I've been there - yeah, I'd say there's a higher percentage than in our military.

    Personally I think its because Israel has people from all over the world and mixing races tends to create more attractive people than not.

  • Agammamon||

    Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. They have a bajillion different types of white, brown, and black people. Just because a lot of them have 'one single drop' of Jewishness doesn't make their dominant racial make-up jewish.

  • Calidissident||

    Judaism does not condemn interracial marriages, it condemns interfaith marriages. Not that I would expect you to be aware of that

  • Calidissident||

    "Judaism is faith based on worshiping a nation, the Jewish people. Not a religion, a people"

    A people who were/are historically defined by their religion. There are a lot of Spaniards that have distant Jewish ancestors who converted (or more likely were forced to convert) to Christianity during the Inquisition, I seriously doubt Israel would let them in based on that alone. The fact that many ethnically Jewish people today are not very religious, if at all, does not change the fact that Jews have historically been defined by their religion. There is a Jewish ethnic group, but to deny the importance, even today, of a specific religion to that group is asinine. To prove your point, you need to provide evidence that a Jewish person condemning the marriage of a Jewish person to someone who was not born Jewish, but converted, is socially accepted.

  • Acosmist||

    So um, awesome things happen?

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Barack Obama’s new role as America’s presidential scold

    Obama is disappointed with the American people. They’re not up to his standards. He’s troubled by their values and their eagerness to make money

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Me, Mencken, and the 'Bamster -- as drinking buddies?!?

    Fuck.

  • Irish||

    It's hilarious that he's whining about people who care too much about Kim Kardashian and Kanye West since that's the primary demographic that got Obama elected.

    When you win young people by 30%, I don't think you have the right to complain about how vapid and stupid kids these days are. That's your voting base.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    How is this diverging at all from the "pure power politics" playbook?

    When I hear about a demagogue bemoaning the ignorance of the demos, I don't even give it a thought.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    He won by being a celebrity like Kardashian and West. So if he deplores celebrity culture, he's cutting the ground out from under himself.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    But now he's put on the *gravitas* and insulting his base: "He who does not put down his ipod and follow me is unworthy of me..."

    "And by the way, how many people did Kim Kardashian drone? Huh? Yeah, I didn't think so."

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    I don't see how this is any kind of problem (for him).

    Insulting your base is the name of the game, once they have served their purpose.

    I don't need to supply fun and incendiary historical examples, do I?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    The Cybermen turning on the guy who freed them from their tomb?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1MbDua5nOg

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Can we invent a term for going Godwin by obliquely referencing Dr. Who?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    When you win young people by 30%, I don't think you have the right to complain about how vapid and stupid kids these days are. That's your voting base.

    Are you kidding? He knows they'll still vote for his side anyway. This is just a Danza slap.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Yup. And all those supporters think he's talking about other Americans. Like those stupid teabagging loserdopians.

    His main selling point is making his supporters feel smug.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Just like that guy who didn't exist.

  • Agammamon||

    Socrates?

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    I don't even think you need the Obamabots as the focus of the statement (although they are a splendid example).

    We all, always complain about the idiots, and all, always think that is the other guy.

  • Calidissident||

    Eh, I know of a lot of middle aged women that care way too much about the Kardashians

  • Hyperion||

    Awww, that's so sweet. I would like to cordially invite him to kiss my fucking ass.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    The funny thing for me is that his analysis is so lacking in historical knowledge, even the part of history that he himself lived through.

    People have obsessed over celebrities since movies, vinyl records, and radio gave birth to the modern concept of a celebrity nearly a century ago. It just wasn't possible to do it in real time until now. Internet celebrity chasing has just replaced the tabloids and magazines of old, which are withering and dying.

  • Irish||

    People have obsessed over celebrities since movies, vinyl records, and radio gave birth to the modern concept of a celebrity nearly a century ago.

    Yes they have.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Maybe what burns his ass is that the (relatively) modern culture of celebrity worship detracts from the far more antiquated institution of emperor worship.

    He's progressive, after all...

  • VG Zaytsev||

    You know who else was let down by his people?

  • ||

  • The Deacon||

    The problem here is that there was no "Jesus", so claiming a fictional trial of a fictional character was invalid sort of leaves you as a laughing-stock.

    lolwut

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.4.13 @ 9:58PM |#

    "The problem here is that there was no "Jesus", so claiming a fictional trial of a fictional character was invalid sort of leaves you as a laughing-stock."
    lolwut

    Well deacon, I'm laughing.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    It's only preseason game 1 and I'm already sick of Cris Collinsworth.

  • Aloysious||

    Who isn't?

  • The Deacon||

    Point taken.
    When will NBC realize that he's useless?

  • Calidissident||

    It's not so much his commentary itself that I dislike (although I'm not a fan of it). His voice makes me want to strangle kittens

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    he's the reason I don't buy the Madden games anymore.

  • ||

    Ugh. 60 Minutes is doing a piece about a Massachusetts elite force of State Troopers that combat gangs in Springfield. The number of military comparisons is nauseating.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Here's a crazy idea -- let's make all LEOs swear the same oath to the constitution that military troops have to.

  • General Butt Naked||

    How would that change anything?

    Here's what congress has to affirm:

    I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

    That's worked out really well, and I'm sure the pig unions will totally abide their warriors being fired for not following the constitution. Cops fucking hate the constitution.

  • Render Unto Caesar||

    Hear, hear!

  • ||

    Apparently America needs an even more militarized police force to combat the scourge of drugs and the gangs that peddle them. Urban America is no different than Afghanistan, don't you know?

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    (As much as I hate to exaggerate when discussing an issue of this gravity, here I go...)

    At this point, what don't they have that the actual army does -- broadly speaking? Literal artillery? Bombers? Submarines?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    At this point, what don't they have that the actual army does

    The UCMJ.

  • Agammamon||

    Respect for their 'enemies'.

  • Sevo||

    Agammamon| 8.4.13 @ 10:17PM |#
    "Which was my damn point from the beginning - there's practically no evidence 'Jesus' existed and none for the Christ."

    It's not that there is "practically"; there is none. Zero.
    The idiots claiming there was some god-junior have zero evidence.

  • Calidissident||

    Why are you posting this here?

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.4.13 @ 11:11PM |#
    "Why are you posting this here?"
    Uh because it's part of the thread.
    Why are you asking?

  • Calidissident||

    I meant why didn't you reply to the comment where it was posted? Not that it really matters, I was just curious

  • Sevo||

    Because Deacon thinks it's a matter worthy of discussion.
    If you don't, you can skip it.

  • The Deacon||

    It's not that there is "practically"; there is none. Zero.
    The idiots claiming there was some god-junior have zero evidence that I will consider

    FTFY

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.4.13 @ 11:16PM |#
    "It's not that there is "practically"; there is none. Zero.
    The idiots claiming there was some god-junior have zero evidence that I will consider"

    No, idiot, I'll be happy to consider evidence.
    Idiots claiming superstitions have to offer it. And you, as an idiot, have none.

  • The Deacon||

    Try this

    CORNELIUS TACITUS (55 - 120 A.D.) Tacitus was a 1st and 2nd century Roman historian who lived through the reigns of over half a dozen
    Roman emperors. Considered one of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Tacitus verifies the Biblical account of Jesus' execution at the
    hands of Pontius Pilate who governed Judea from 26-36 A.D. during the reign of Tiberius.

    "Christus, the founder of the [Christian] name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius. But the
    pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, by through the city of
    Rome also." Annals XV, 44

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.4.13 @ 11:34PM |#
    "Try this"

    Try this: People claiming someone existed X years ago and that someone did, well, stuff, isn't worth shit.
    Evidence, please, or stuff it. I'm tired of hearing bleevers claim their bleefs are anything other than their fantasies.
    You're welcome to your fantasies, but don't bother claiming they are other than that.

  • The Deacon||

    I think we're talking past each other then, I'm sorry.
    What would constitute evidence?

  • Calidissident||

    Sevo, "evidence" and "proof" are two different things. By your standards, there isn't evidence for the existence of the vast majority of historical figures

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.4.13 @ 11:46PM |#
    "I think we're talking past each other then, I'm sorry."
    We're doing nothing of the sort. You're claiming the existence of a mythical being; prove it.

    Calidissident| 8.4.13 @ 11:58PM |#
    "Sevo, "evidence" and "proof" are two different things. By your standards, there isn't evidence for the existence of the vast majority of historical figures"
    Please provide evidence (not claims) of a mythical being.

  • Calidissident||

    I have not argued for the existence of a Jesus who was the Son of God. Quit moving the goalposts

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 12:07AM |#
    "I have not argued for the existence of a Jesus who was the Son of God. Quit moving the goalposts"

    So anyone named Jesus fills the bill.
    Stuff it.

  • Calidissident||

    "So anyone named Jesus fills the bill."

    Not at all. I think that a man named Jesus, who lived in Palestine in the early first century AD and was a religious leader who either founded, or was the inspiration for, Christianity, existed, and I think there is evidence for the existence of such a person. I do not believe in a Jesus who was the Son of God, nor do I believe that there is any unbiased evidence of that.

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 12:45AM |#
    "and I think there is evidence for the existence of such a person"

    Yeah, I'm sure there was someone named Jesus who lived and that time in a place near there.
    Did you know a person who was abducted was found in a body of water?

  • Calidissident||

    I see you conveniently left out the rest of my post. I didn't simply claim that their is evidence that someone named Jesus lived in Palestine. There was a pretty significant part that came after that.

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 12:53AM |#
    "I see you conveniently left out the rest of my post. I didn't simply claim that their is evidence that someone named Jesus lived in Palestine. There was a pretty significant part that came after that."

    Yes, I did, since it is irrelevant.
    I'm sure you can find some guy named Jesus, and you can find some stuff he wrote and you can find some other reason to claim this or that.
    But, ya know, I'm tired of reading posts by idiots who think that matters.
    Try dealing with reality instead of superstition.

  • Calidissident||

    "Yes, I did, since it is irrelevant."

    Not to the argument we're having

    "I'm sure you can find some guy named Jesus, and you can find some stuff he wrote and you can find some other reason to claim this or that."

    If you don't disagree with the notion that there is evidence for the existence of a non-divine Jesus who was still the founder or inspiration for Christianity, then why have you spent so much time arguing against people who have simply been arguing just that?

    "But, ya know, I'm tired of reading posts by idiots who think that matters."

    Define "matters." I don't really care either way or the other whether or not he existed. You're clearly the one who thinks it matters.

    "Try dealing with reality instead of superstition."

    I am dealing with reality. I'm not religious, not a Christian, and do not think Jesus was divine (for the umpteenth time)

  • ||

    You're in the definite minority among historians if you deny the existence of a historical Jesus. The mainstream view among secular, academic historians is that there was a religious teacher named Jesus of Nazareth who preached during the time period the Gospels described.

    The circumstances of his birth and whether he performed miracles and was resurrected from the dead is another debate entirely.

  • Sevo||

    A Serious Man| 8.4.13 @ 11:17PM |#
    "You're in the definite minority among historians if you deny the existence of a historical Jesus. The mainstream view among secular, academic historians is that there was a religious teacher named Jesus of Nazareth who preached during the time period the Gospels described."

    Well, no. There is not one (ONE) shred of evidence that such a fantasy person existed.
    Now if you have evidence, I'd love to see it.

  • Agammamon||

    My point is that even if a preacher named Jesus existed, that doesn't make him an avatar of Jehovah, but that's what people mean when they talk about him. As such, there's no such thing as Jesus Christ anymore than there are square circles.

  • ||

    I'm not arguing your broader point, but historical scholarship about ancient persons and events is different than scholarship over things that happened recently.

    2,000 years from now people might question whether George Washington crossed the Delaware and dismiss it as a fairy tale like when he chopped down a cherry tree.

  • Sevo||

    A Serious Man| 8.4.13 @ 11:55PM |#
    "I'm not arguing your broader point, but historical scholarship about ancient persons and events is different than scholarship over things that happened recently."

    Irrelevant. Got proof of some guy who performs miracles? Who rose from the dead?
    Let's see it.

  • The Deacon||

    But this is a different discussion than what we were having. Why are you changing the topic?

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.5.13 @ 12:08AM |#
    "But this is a different discussion than what we were having. Why are you changing the topic?"

    Deacon, why are you lying?

  • Sevo||

    Tulpa (LAOL-VA)| 8.4.13 @ 9:21PM |#
    "If the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is to be believed,"

    Yep, Tulpa, just keep posting bullshit.

  • The Deacon||

    Man rejects God not because of intellectual demands nor scarcity of evidence, but a moral resistance that refuses to admit his need for God.

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.4.13 @ 11:20PM |#
    "Man rejects God not because of intellectual demands nor scarcity of evidence, but a moral resistance that refuses to admit his need for God."

    Uh, no. Man rejects imaginary friends, since, as adults, there is no need of them.

  • Sevo||

    Eduard van Haalen| 8.4.13 @ 9:39PM |#
    "You talk about disputes over the circumstances of His birth, not debate over His existence."

    OK, Eduard, you're working on the 'I'm real stupid' award here.
    Got one shred of evidence that some god-junior existed?
    I'm waiting to see it.

  • ||

    Josephus and Tacitus both referred to a historical Jesus that was crucified by Pilate and was considered the Messiah by his followers.

  • Sevo||

    A Serious Man| 8.4.13 @ 11:33PM |#
    "Josephus and Tacitus both referred to a historical Jesus that was crucified by Pilate and was considered the Messiah by his followers."

    Yeah, and I've heard people "refer to" unicorns.
    Are you familiar with the term "evidence" and what it means? It really doesn't mean people talking about mythical beings.

  • The Deacon||

    Let's say Jesus was in fact real. What would it mean for you?

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.4.13 @ 11:43PM |#
    "Let's say Jesus was in fact real. What would it mean for you?"

    Uh, it would mean I'd have to be nice for Santa Claus.
    What sort of stupid question is that?

  • Agammamon||

    That I would be forced into a particular mode of behavior to satisfy some bloodthirsty post-human intelligence's whims under threat of infinite punishment for finite transgression of that being's code of conduct.

  • The Deacon||

    which sayings of Jesus back this point up?

  • ||

    The rich man and Lazarus Luke 16:19-31.

    22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

    25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

    Also the always popular "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father, but by Me."

  • ||

    Ugh. You don't think it's significant that two reputed historians, one a Jew and the other a Roman senator, who had no incentive to lie or endorse Christianity, make reference to Jesus?

    Both accounts talk about Jesus in a way that clearly shows they thought of him as a real person. When you're researching a person who lived 2000 years ago, that's pretty solid evidence.

  • Irish||

    Sevo's idea of 'reasonable evidence' in this case is absurd. If you say that his followers wrote about him, Sevo demands non-Christian sources. You supply non-Christian sources, and he decides to just discount them.

    Sevo, I also don't understand this aspect of your argument:

    "Let's say Jesus was in fact real. What would it mean for you?"

    Uh, it would mean I'd have to be nice for Santa Claus.
    What sort of stupid question is that?

    A historical Jesus could have existed who was NOT the Son of God and in no way supernatural. That's actually the belief I have. I think someone like Jesus existed, but that he was just a cult leader or mystic and in no way supernatural.

    I don't know why you equate the existence of a possible historical Christ with the idea that this would mean Christianity is true.

  • Sevo||

    Irish| 8.4.13 @ 11:54PM |#
    "Sevo's idea of 'reasonable evidence' in this case is absurd. If you say that his followers wrote about him, Sevo demands non-Christian sources"

    No Irish, I demand nothing of the sort. In fact I reject the supposed "Roman evidence"
    The point is simple:
    Claim some fantasy of supernatural powers? Fine.
    Let's see evidence matching those claims. Got none? Well, in that case, your claims are bullshit.
    I want to make this clear: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
    You think there was some magical being who could perform miracles? Let's see the evidence.
    That's all I'm asking; put up or shut up.

  • Calidissident||

    You're moving the goalposts between "evidence of the existence of a historical Jesus" and "evidence that Jesus actually was the son of God." Those are two different things, and aside from Deacon and EvH, most people in this thread who you are arguing against have argued for the former. If I'm not mistaken, Irish is an atheist, and I think I could best be described as an "agnostic Deist"

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 12:06AM |#
    "You're moving the goalposts between "evidence of the existence of a historical Jesus" and "evidence that Jesus actually was the son of God.""

    Bullshit.
    The Xain "Jesus" is either god-junior or there is zero reason to include the guy in the bible.
    YOU are moving the goalposts hoping to find a Jesus who lived then.
    BTW, Jesus did a hell of a job on the rook last week.

  • Calidissident||

    "The Xain "Jesus" is either god-junior or there is zero reason to include the guy in the bible."

    So Joseph Smith actually had to be a prophet of God, or he didn't exist? There is plenty of reason to include the guy in the Bible if he was the inspiration for the religion of Christianity. That doesn't mean Biblical accounts about the miracles he supposedly did, or being the Son of God born of a virgin are true. I'm not hoping to find a Jesus who existed. I really would not care if he didn't, as I've stated multiple times that I'm not a Christian

  • Sevo||

    ..."I really would not care if he didn't, as I've stated multiple times that I'm not a Christian"

    Oh, well...

  • Calidissident||

    "Oh, well..."

    I think it's pretty clear from this thread that you care far more about whether or not Jesus existed than I do

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 12:30AM |#
    "I think it's pretty clear from this thread that you care far more about whether or not Jesus existed than I do"

    Could be. How interested are you in the existence of unicorns?

  • Calidissident||

    "Oh, well..."

    I think it's pretty clear from this thread that you care far more about whether or not Jesus existed than I do

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 12:19AM |#
    "The Xain "Jesus" is either god-junior or there is zero reason to include the guy in the bible."
    "So Joseph Smith actually had to be a prophet of God, or he didn't exist?"

    I can't believe the number of idiots here.
    You claim son-0-god is jesus? Well, let's see the evidence that it's both true and that junior existed.

  • Irish||

    The Xain "Jesus" is either god-junior or there is zero reason to include the guy in the bible.

    This is blatantly untrue. All that matters for Jesus' inclusion in the Bible is that Christians believe he is the Son of God.

    If Christians believe he is the Son of God, they would include him in the Bible. That doesn't make it true. The fact that people say he existed does not imply that he was actually supernatural.

  • Sevo||

    Irish| 8.5.13 @ 12:25AM |#
    "This is blatantly untrue. All that matters for Jesus' inclusion in the Bible is that Christians believe he is the Son of God."

    So reality is irrelevant to Xians?
    How do those unicorns gambol?

  • Calidissident||

    "So reality is irrelevant to Xians?"

    Do you disagree with this? Isn't that true if your belief (that JC didn't exist in any way, shape, or form) is correct as well?

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 12:48AM |#
    "So reality is irrelevant to Xians?"
    Do you disagree with this? Isn't that true if your belief (that JC didn't exist in any way, shape, or form) is correct as well?"

    Uh, what?
    What are you asking?
    It's not my bleef that junior didn't exist; it's a lack of evidence that he did.
    Tell me about how Santa Claus exists, please.

  • Calidissident||

    "Uh, what?
    What are you asking?"

    I'm asking you to answer your own question - do you think reality is irrelevant to Christians?

  • Sevo||

    "I'm asking you to answer your own question - do you think reality is irrelevant to Christians?"

    Xians are a mystery to me; I have no idea.

  • Irish||

    So reality is irrelevant to Xians?

    I would argue yes, since I don't think Jesus had superpowers.

    That has nothing to do with whether or not there was a historical Christ figure.

  • Sevo||

    Irish| 8.5.13 @ 12:53AM |#
    ..."That has nothing to do with whether or not there was a historical Christ figure."

    So anyone named Jesus will do? In which case, why to Xians go all goo-goo about the guy?
    I mean, he was working on my roof last week.

  • Calidissident||

    "So anyone named Jesus will do?"

    Multiple people have stated multiple times that that is not what we're arguing. Seriously, you're making Tonyesque strawmen and non sequitirs right now

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 1:03AM |#

    "So anyone named Jesus will do?"

    Multiple people have stated multiple times that that is not what we're arguing. Seriously, you're making Tonyesque strawmen and non sequitirs right now"

    Bullshit.
    You are claiming there is a son-o-god fantasy person.
    Prove it, or stuff it.

  • Calidissident||

    "You are claiming there is a son-o-god fantasy person."

    No, I am not. You are blatantly lying. Prove that I have argued that Jesus was the son of God, or shut up. In fact, you will find multiple instances where I have stated the opposite

  • Nazdrakke||

    No, I am not. You are blatantly lying. Prove that I have argued that Jesus was the son of God, or shut up. In fact, you will find multiple instances where I have stated the opposite

    Is it possible Buttplug or Tony pulled some kind of Borg assimilation attack on Sevo?

  • Calidissident||

    I think it's possible. It's like he's literally morphing into his most hated enemies before our eyes

  • Sevo||

    "Is it possible Buttplug or Tony pulled some kind of Borg assimilation attack on Sevo?"

    Nope.
    It is obvious that various folk do not like being called on their Xian bullshit.

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 1:17AM |#
    "You are claiming there is a son-o-god fantasy person."
    No, I am not. You are blatantly lying. Prove that I have argued that Jesus was the son of God, or shut up. In fact, you will find multiple instances where I have stated the opposite"

    So what are you claiming? That there was some guy named Jesus who lived then?
    Goody for you.

  • Calidissident||

    "So what are you claiming? That there was some guy named Jesus who lived then?
    Goody for you."

    Yeah, that's exactly what I'm claiming. You have such great reading comprehension. Is English your first language?

  • Sevo||

    Irish| 8.5.13 @ 12:53AM |#
    "That has nothing to do with whether or not there was a historical Christ figure."

    So any guy wondering down the street will do?
    Hey, I'm christ! Why not? I claim it and Irish is gonna go for it, right?
    Hint, Irish, there is no "historical" christ figure. It's sky-daddy crap.

  • Sevo||

    A Serious Man| 8.4.13 @ 11:48PM |#
    "Ugh. You don't think it's significant that two reputed historians, one a Jew and the other a Roman senator, who had no incentive to lie or endorse Christianity, make reference to Jesus?"

    Are you kidding? "Make reference to" /= proof of existence.

  • Irish||

    Christ would have been an executed cult leader in an outlying Roman province. How much proof would you need? References from a few historians are about as good as you're ever going to get for a non-Roman who held no political power.

  • Sevo||

    Irish| 8.4.13 @ 11:58PM |#
    "How much proof would you need?"

    Any at all Irish and you have none. Zero.

  • Calidissident||

    You didn't ask for proof, you asked for evidence. Those are two different things, and Tacitus and Josephus referencing Christ in the first century is evidence of existence

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 12:03AM |#
    "You didn't ask for proof, you asked for evidence"

    I'll bet you thought that was clever, didn't you?
    OK, let's see evidence. There is none. None.

  • Calidissident||

    If you have a definition of "evidence" different from that accepted by secular historians, or virtually everyone with knowledge of the English language, then I suppose that's true.

  • The Deacon||

    He won't define evidence because he doesn't exist.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Guys, this is Sevo's conversational modus operandi -- and not just on this topic.

    You might as well just let him be...

  • Sevo||

    Gozer the Gozerian| 8.5.13 @ 12:45AM |#
    "Guys, this is Sevo's conversational modus operandi -- and not just on this topic.
    You might as well just let him be..."

    Yeah, it's tough, so don't bother trying to offer evidence. It's just too hard!
    Why, you might get called on your bullshit when what you thought was evidence isn't anything like it, right, Gozer?
    Kinda like when you got called on bullshit?

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.5.13 @ 12:22AM |#
    "He won't define evidence because he doesn't exist."

    Yeah, that evidence is hard to come by when there is none.

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 12:22AM |#
    "If you have a definition of "evidence" different from that accepted by secular historians"

    I don't need such; there is zero evidence.
    If you have some, let's see it.

  • Calidissident||

    I (and multiple other non-Christians in this thread) have provided it multiple times. You simply refuse to consider it "evidence" even though it is considered as such by the vast majority of secular historians and people in general.

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 12:47AM |#
    "I (and multiple other non-Christians in this thread) have provided it multiple times."

    Cite, please. I didn't realize how stupid you are.

  • Calidissident||

    "Cite, please. I didn't realize how stupid you are."

    Tonyesque projection to along with Tonyesque logical fallacies. It's obvious you're either too stupid or stubborn to comprehend any citation I could give you, so I won't even bother

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 1:33AM |#
    "It's obvious you're either too stupid or stubborn to comprehend any citation I could give you, so I won't even bother"

    Oh, poor idiots who can't quite find support for their claims. So sad!
    Oh, and stuff it, asshole.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    I suppose that I ought to leave this here, as a testament to Sevo's character and his reference to "bullshit."

    Read all the way down, if you want the picture...

  • Sevo||

    Yeah, I did Gozer.
    You're really pissed about being called on your bullshit, aren't you?
    Well, stuff it up your ass.

  • Agammamon||

    Tacticus wasn't around until the 2nd century AD - Tacticus is a better source (or at least closer temporally) but he wasn't even born until after Jesus died.

  • ||

    None of us were alive when Thomas Jefferson was president. Does that mean all contemporary scholarship about him will be useless a thousand years from now?

  • Sevo||

    A Serious Man| 8.4.13 @ 11:50PM |#
    "None of us were alive when Thomas Jefferson was president."

    Stupid squared!
    Anyone claiming Jefferson was son-0-god?
    A stupid man has just proved it.

  • Calidissident||

    "Anyone claiming Jefferson was son-0-god?"

    That's not relevant to A Serious Man's point about whether or not scholarship after someone is dead is valuable. Furthermore, nobody here is using Tacitus, or Josephus, or any of the other non-Christian historians, to argue that Jesus was the son of God. Those sources do not support the notion that Jesus was the son of God. They do, however, support the notion that a person called Jesus Christ existed and was either the founder or inspiration of the religion of Christianity. That is all anyone in this thread is claiming

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 1:53AM |#
    "Anyone claiming Jefferson was son-0-god?"
    "That's not relevant to A Serious Man's point about whether or not scholarship after someone is dead is valuable"

    Oh, yes it is.
    You claim someone lived and produced miracles, you need really strong evidence.
    I'm really tired of Xians claiming that s-o-g's existence needs no more proof than Socrates.

  • Calidissident||

    "Oh, yes it is."

    No it isn't, because his point is valid in discussions other than those about Jesus. It wasn't specific to this argument.

    "You claim someone lived and produced miracles"

    Who is "you?" Neither A Serious Man nor myself has claimed that Jesus produced miracles. And no one has claimed that Tacitus, Josephus, etc. are proof or evidence that Jesus performed miracles. Do you understand the meaning of those sentences? You seem to have very poor reading comprehension skills, because you keep accusing people of believing Jesus was divine, even after they repeatedly tell you that they do not believe such a thing.

    "I'm really tired of Xians claiming that s-o-g's existence needs no more proof than Socrates."

    Except that most people in this thread have not argued that Jesus was the son of God

  • Agammamon||

    I meant Josephus is the more reliable.

  • Calidissident||

    That is true, but they are still pretty close to contemporary. If you're going to discount Tacitus's account because Jesus died before he was born, then you have to discount most of his writings. As I mentioned above, Herodotus was five years old when the Second Greco-Persian War happened, and wrote about it decades later, but that doesn't mean The Histories (while certainly not viewed as an entirely accurate historical account) are not evidence about the Greco-Persian Wars.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    {Smooches}

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Top Gear was a bit too patriotic tonight.

  • Agammamon||

    Are . . . Are you watching the American abomination or the Brit one?

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    The British one.
    Series 20 Episode 6.
    Ended with 15 minutes on British made cars and heavy equipment.

  • Agammamon||

    Usually when they talk about british cars they're quite unimpressed. Can often get some pretty good snark over their domestic produce.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Yeah, but they've been patriotic before. But today was a bit over the top. Clarkson almost wept.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    This was a typically over the top, if undoubtedly soul-stirring, 10-minute riposte to anyone out there (say, a passing German or Italian) who might think the British motor manufacturing industry is “a busted flush”. Quite the contrary said Clarkson & Co, and to prove it they decided to list just how much vehicle engineering, design and construction still goes on in the UK. And get every manufacturer and supplier in Britain to send examples of their work to a “gathering” in London.
  • The Deacon||

    GAIUS SUETONIUS TRANQUILLUS (69 - 130 A.D.) Suetonius was a prominent Roman historian who recorded the lives of the Roman
    Caesars and the historical events surrounding their reigns. He served as a court official under Hadrian and as an annalist for the Imperial
    House. Suetonius records the expulsion of the Christian Jews from Rome (mentioned in Acts 18:2) and confirms the Christian faith being
    founded by Christ.

    "As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, [Claudius] expelled them from Rome." Life of Claudius 25.4

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.4.13 @ 11:45PM |#
    "GAIUS SUETONIUS TRANQUILLUS (69 - 130 A.D.) [...] confirms the Christian faith being founded by Christ."

    How stupid are you?
    Some guy, 100 years after the supposed events, hearing people talk about something, "confirms" that thing?
    And that thing is some claim of fishes and loaves?
    How stupid are you?

  • The Deacon||

    Tell me who invented Christianity?

    Jesus? The 12 apostles? Lies, like truth, must have origins.
    What was the motive of the first believer?
    What did they get out of this elaborate, blasphemous hoax?
    It must have been a deliberate lie, not a sincere confusion.

  • ||

    Who wouldn't want to be crucified and martyred? Clearly those apostles invented Jesus out of whole cloth so they could all die agonizing deaths. Makes total sense!

    It raises the question over how many Scientologists would be willingly to be fed to the lions or boiled in oil to preserve the faith of L. Ron Hubbard.

  • Calidissident||

    L. Ron Hubbard is actually a good comparison, because we can conclusively prove his existence given how recently he lived. The fact that he was full of shit doesn't mean he didn't exist

  • The Deacon||

    L Ron who? I never met him. No proof.

  • Xenocles||

    "Chrestus" was a common Roman name. There is little reason to believe it was a corruption of the word "Christ." The Jews were also known for making their own disturbances unrelated to the Christian cult, see Masada, for instance.

    Scholars are also divided on whether Chrestus was an agitator whose actions influenced Claudius's decision or an adviser who prompted him to act.

  • ||

    Er, mistakenly posted this in a dead thread earlier. A friend of mine sent me this. BoingBoing is reporting the same story although they're being careful not to make any definitive statements.

    The founder of Freedom Hosting has been arrested in Ireland and is awaiting extradition to USA.

    In a crackdown that FBI claims to be about hunting down pedophiles, half of the onion sites in the TOR network has been compromised, including the e-mail counterpart of TOR deep web, TORmail.

    Anyone know if this is a thing? Or are people being paranoid?

  • Agammamon||

    I saw something about this on Ars - it wouldn't surprise me if TOR is compromised.

    As one of the largest anonymizers its been a target of law enforcement for a while.

  • The Deacon||

    I'm doubting Sevo's degree in history and reading historical documents.

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.4.13 @ 11:58PM |#
    "I'm doubting Sevo's degree in history and reading historical documents."

    I'm doubting your ability to offer evidence for your argument, since you've yet to do so.

  • The Deacon||

    I'm now puzzled at to evidence of what.
    You've yet to define "evidence"

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.4.13 @ 11:54PM |#
    "Tell me who invented Christianity?"

    Some idiot like you? HIH would I know?

  • The Deacon||

    you must have some theory on the origin of the Jesus myth.

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.5.13 @ 12:14AM |#
    "you must have some theory on the origin of the Jesus myth."

    All primitive societies invented superstitions to explain what at the time was unknown.
    And most primitive tribes claimed a 'supreme leader' as an excuse to kill others.

  • The Deacon||

    you didn't answer the question.

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.5.13 @ 12:23AM |#
    "you didn't answer the question."

    You either can't read or you chose not to.
    Bleef in some mythical beings is (or should be) what primitives bleeve.
    Is that hard to grasp? How stupid are you?

  • The Deacon||

    You're right.
    Christianity is for people who are screwed up. People who don't understand why their kids are a handful. People who don't know if there family loves them. People who don't know if they can keep their marriage together another day nevermind another year. it's for people who don't think they can even make it to next week because everything around them is going crazy.

    But since you got that all figured out, go nuts.

  • Sevo||

    Nice try deacon.
    Idiot bleevers are all those wonderful things. Including idiots.

  • The Deacon||

    I'm doubting this Sevo is real. I think he's a made up persona.

  • Calidissident||

    He's definitely real, he's a regular, respected poster. His rantings on the lack of existence of Jesus aren't reflective of most of his posts here

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    As I state above, he is known to argue this way, and not only about evidence for the historical Jesus...

  • Sevo||

    Gozer the Gozerian| 8.5.13 @ 12:50AM |#
    "As I state above, he is known to argue this way, and not only about evidence for the historical Jesus..."

    Yep, it's not only the claim of evidence of junior that gets my attention.

  • Calidissident||

    True, but I think you would agree that he's not a troll or made up persona. I don't really mind his style of argument when he does it against Tony, because Tony is almost always wrong, and always annoying.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Oh, definitely, Cal.

    However, if you want to actually have an elucidating or intellectually mature discussion, well... Let's just say that Sevo isn't your man, although you might be fishing in the wrong pond to begin with.

  • Sevo||

    "His rantings on the lack of existence of Jesus aren't reflective of most of his posts here"

    Well, yes they are. I try to avoid fantasy always.

  • Calidissident||

    I meant that most of your posts aren't about Jesus, but ok, whatever

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident| 8.5.13 @ 12:51AM |#
    "I meant that most of your posts aren't about Jesus, but ok, whatever"

    WHAT? Most all of my posts this evening have to do with the mythical existence of a god-junior and the statement of fact that there is absolutely not one shred of evidence of his existence.

  • Calidissident||

    I meant "most of the posts you make on this website in general" not "most of the posts you've made in this thread tonight"

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    My troll-fu is still excellent. Next, I will explain how atheism is a religion. A tasty deep-dish pizza of a religion.

  • Sevo||

    "Next, I will explain how atheism is a religion."

    And you'll get laughed at.

  • The Deacon||

    Question: Which teaching of Jesus advocated killing of unbelievers?

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.5.13 @ 12:44AM |#
    "Question: Which teaching of Jesus advocated killing of unbelievers?"

    Question: Why does deacon bleeve in mythical characters?

  • The Deacon||

    Jesus wasn't mythical. So answer the question.

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.5.13 @ 1:08AM |#
    "Jesus wasn't mythical."

    Prove it, asshole. I'm tired of dealing with idiots who think their superstition is worth the time of rational people.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    and Jimmy, when they assigned a whole army of police officers to stop him, what did he do? he made them partners.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    So if Bob Marley didn't shoot the deputy, who did?

  • The Deacon||

    Non-Christian sources had nothing to gain by their admissions of Jesus Christ. On the
    other hand, the Christian witness had everything to lose. Many paid for it with their lives.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Why "argue" with one person that spews invective and a group that concedes your point, if it is limited to the existence of an historical figure?

  • The Deacon||

    you're right. Sevo is a rubber dummy. I'm out.

  • Sevo||

    Gozer the Gozerian| 8.5.13 @ 1:34AM |#
    "Why "argue" with one person that spews invective and a group that concedes your point, if it is limited to the existence of an historical figure?"

    I'm sure you thought there was a comment buried in there.
    Now, got any evidence of a Jesus? Or are you simply one more ignoramus?
    I'm waiting to hear.

  • Nazdrakke||

    It's gotten a little.. strange in here this evening.

  • The Deacon||

    Xians are a mystery to me; I have no idea.
    so attack attack attack!!!

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.5.13 @ 1:15AM |#
    "Xians are a mystery to me; I have no idea.
    so attack attack attack!!!"

    No,
    Stupid, stupid, stupid.

  • The Deacon||

    Calling someone stupid is attacking them.
    Do you have anything constructive to add?

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.5.13 @ 1:28AM |#
    "Calling someone stupid is attacking them.
    Do you have anything constructive to add?"

    After you post "attack attack attack!!!"?

  • The Deacon||

    our caricature Sevo has not offered an alternative origin story for the Jesus myth.

  • Sevo||

    The Deacon| 8.5.13 @ 1:28AM |#
    "our caricature Sevo has not offered an alternative origin story for the Jesus myth."

    Our idiot Deacon has not offered a single bit of evidence for the claim of the mythical being which substitutes for the moral compass which Deacon obviously passes off to Deacon's fantasy. Right, Deacon? You make no choices without consulting with your imaginary friends? Have I got it here?
    No, I have not offered an "alternative" since offering an "alternative" to a fantasy is not really an issue.
    Our Idiot Deacon has yet justify his/her superstition. Oh, and Deacon, watch out for black cats. Idiots such as yourself find them worrisome.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Did Billy Batts really deserve to be killed by Tommy?

    Important questions need answers.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    He was bustin' his balls, and he really wasn't a funny guy...

  • ||

    Never bust a wise guy's ball. Now get your fuckin' shine box!

  • The Deacon||

    Except that most people in this thread have not argued that Jesus was the son of God

    He was either the Son of God, a liar, or a lunatic.

    Pick one please.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    I doubt that most of the commentariat accepts the Gospels as accurate historical accounts, so that argument won't fly with them...

  • Acosmist||

    Sevo got servoed

  • triclops||

    What a fucking surreal thread.
    I've never seen someone react this way to the idea that there was a first century preacher in Israel named Jesus who started the most successful cult ever. The evidence is not conclusive, but it certainly isn't without merit.

  • ||

    To conclude this bizarre thread, I also saw on 60 Minutes a piece about the 'Africa Mercy', a floating hospital staffed by Christians who sail around Africa removing tumors and giving life-altering surgeries to impoverished third-world Africans. None of the doctors or staff are paid; in fact they actually have to pay the organization for the privilege of working on the ship.

    So regardless of whether Jesus was the Son of God, he certainly has inspired people to do some pretty awesome things for others.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Conclude...?

    But, in all seriousness, you will just get someone like Sevo, retorting with shit like, "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet," the Spanish Inquisition, televangelism, etc. The fact that all of it blatantly violates the instructions of Jesus is, of course, irrelevant.

  • Greendogo||

    I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I'll sound like my dad for saying this, but it sounds like we should be preparing for a false flag operation or something to loop us back into a hyper-sense of insecurity so that the NSA programs and other military nonsense can be justified to the voters.

    I say if there is some kind of "terrorist attack", whether it be by true "terrorists" or by some "false flag" operation, we stick to our ideological guns.

    No new "Security" programs or spending, no new wars, no new lies.

  • Anders||

    Let me be clear, as the President and Lord of the Ringpiece, it is MY duty to...protect the American people. And the people of my homeland in SomewhereStan, uh, that wasn't supposed to be on the teleprompter.

    We cannot allow the typical DC politics to get in the way of National Security. Or my golf game. Or, uh, Michelle's permanent vacations.

    We need to work together to defeat the global terror rastas which is why I have sent Congress my new immigration bill to make everyone in AQ and Meixico a US citizen today. And also a new Remake Detroit Bill which will cost $20tn - OBL is dead, Detroit is a bit rusty, but I'm gonna rebuild that boy out of solid platinum yo.

    Yeah and Fox News, Limbaugh, and all you haters - just remember, they are woman haters and the true terra rastas.

  • BeBraveUSA||

    "The one thing we can talk about is the fact that there's been an awful lot of chatter out there," Sen. Saxby Chambliss
    Hey batter batter batter, swing!

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