In the Boston Bombing Case, 'Weapon of Mass Destruction' Is In the Eye of the (Government) Beholder

Dzhokhar TsarnaevBoston Police DepartmentEven for those of us who think there's no hole too deep into which to drop somebody who bombs innocent people, the "weapon of mass destruction" charge brought against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev seems a bit of a stretch. Isn't "weapons of mass destruction" an awkward term meant to encompass killing devices designed to take out cities and armies? As it turns out, though, the term is a bit loose. It's not so loose as to apply to anything, but it comes pretty damned close.

According to U.S. law (18 USC § 2332):

the term “weapon of mass destruction” means—

(A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title;

(B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;

(C) any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector (as those terms are defined in section 178 of this title); or

(D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life;

Chemical and biologial agents clearly aren't at issue here, but "destructive devices" are. So a peek at 18 USC § 921 reveals:

The term “destructive device” means—

(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas—

(i) bomb,

(ii) grenade,

(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,

(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,

(v) mine, or

(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;

(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and

(C) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in subparagraph (A) or (B) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.

The term “destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684 (2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10; or any other device which the Attorney General finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting, recreational or cultural purposes.

Yup. That really is a definition big enough to encompass both nuclear weapons and horrible but small explosive devices of the sort that caused such havoc in Boston. It'd probably cover you after an ill-considered lunch of chili, for that matter.

I don't think I'm expressing excessive sympathy — or any sympathy — for the (accused) Boston bombers when I suggest that laws with a touch of specificity seem more appropriate than statutes that paint with such a broad brush. In this case, something like "murder" should do just fine.

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  • Rimfax||

    Sounds like a potato cannon might meet those criteria.

  • ||

    lol. Great minds. That was my first reaction

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    Sounds like the fireworks store across the county line could be considered a WMD arsenal.

  • Xenocles||

    The Mass State Troopers who park at the stores in NH to bust people coming back are like Shock and Awe.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    We don't have to worry much about that here, even though our license plates do have county of registration.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Ugh. County plates.

  • Almanian!||

    OH uses numbers to denote the county. When we lived there the first time, we were in Putnam county. I kept my motorcycle plates cause....69...lulz.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    Now Geraldo Rivera is calling for fireworks licensing.

  • CE||

    Yeah, I didn't realize hand grenades are legally weapons of mass destruction. They made it sound like Saddam had nukes, when what he had was some WWI style poison gas.

  • Rich||

    (iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,

    (iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce

    Emphasis added. That narrows it down.

  • -Umbriel-||

    And what the hell is their distinction between "rocket" and "missile"?

    Hang on... the "rocket" line specifies "propellant charge", which would presumably mean a projectile self-propelled by the combustion of that propellant. The "missile" line, on the other hand could, by dictionary definition, mean any object propelled by any means at a target. The "charge" in that case refers to an explosive or incendiary payload. So if you throw an M80 or other firework with greater than a 1/4 ounce of flammable material in it, guess what? You've used a "weapon of mass destruction."

  • Robert||

    No, look at the last paragraph. It's not a destructive device if it's not designed as a weapon.

  • -Umbriel-||

    "Designed as a weapon" raises its own definitional issues. I expect that at the least it would cover Molotov Cocktails.

  • Xenocles||

    They booked that US national who fought in Syria (apparently for the wrong people) on the same charge for allegedly using an RPG. (Seems to have Facebooked about it.)

  • sloopyinca||

    I'm actually OK with the charges here. They (allegedly) intended to cause mass destruction with these weapons.

    Besides, perhaps it will go all the way to the SC and we'll get some clarity.

  • ||

    We're going to try them on their intentions, not the results?

    I can intend to kill 200 people with a rifle, but if I only kill 20, I would (and should) only be charged with those 20 deaths, and not the 180 I really wanted to commit, but didn't*.

    *For simplicity's sake we'll say that I didn't even make an attempt to kill them.

  • Acosmist||

    Definitely an actus reus to go along with their intentions, though.

    Seriously, it is hard to imagine me being more against your position here.

  • ||

    Great, I feel the same way.

  • ||

    I just low the idea that they should be treated as if they were wielding a massive weapon because they WANTED to inflict that kind of carnage--even though they were not capable of doing so with the tools they had at hand.

  • StackOfCoins||

    I agree; this is punishing intent, not actual damage caused. It seems the desire was to kill and maim in a highly visible way, which they accomplished with some success.

    At any rate, an actual jury trial is the appropriate way to go. Intent and the "why" factor are major subjects of interest, and a trial may shed light on them.

  • CE||

    We always try people on their intentions. Ever heard of the charge "attempted murder"?

  • Xenocles||

    In case nobody has said it yet (unlikely), does this mean Bush was right about Iraq the whole time? Our guys were getting blown up every day over there.

  • SIV||

    That is the same "destructive device" definition as in the National Firearms Act, no?

    How the fuck did they lump those in with nukes, weaponized anthrax and nerve gas?

  • Xenocles||

    IIRC, the law in question far predates the modern understanding of WMD, which probably took off mostly in the run-up to OIF.

  • ||

    Good point. The domestic law definition won't necessarily mesh with the "act of war" definition a la Saddam Hussein and HIS (lack of ) WMD's.

    There are WMD's in the "War" arena. And then there are WMD's in the domestic crime arena. Same name, different criteria

  • SKR||

    The modern understanding came about from Guernica.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    So Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction.

  • Rich||

    Ah, the sweet smell of vindication. Or is it of corroboration? Oh, well, that smell ....

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    Damn, I guess I'll be turning myself in to the ATF... never.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    "(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes)...

    This language is actually in the law?

  • SIV||

    Yes.Gose guns are legal but cool anti-personnel shotguns are weapons of mass destruction.This sounds just like the NFA of 1934.

  • SIV||

    "goose guns" I wonder about punt guns and kiln guns?

  • Coeus||

    3 felonies a day...

  • CE||

    Before breakfast.

  • Generic Stranger||

    It is the NFA of 1934.

    Punt guns were mostly blackpowder muzzleloaders, and are therefor exempt (you can buy a blackpowder cannon without so much as a background check).

    Can't use 'em for hunting ducks any more, though. Federal law restricts you to ten gauge or smaller for that purpose.

  • ||

  • ||

    I thought that's why everyone carries around mutated anthrax: duck hunting.

  • UnCivilServant||

    Is that why I can't find duck lung on the market?

  • ||

    It seems like, as with most aspects of federal law, definitions, codes etc. are so vague andor expansive that all sorts of stuff can be shoehorned into meeting a definition that = a violation of some statute.

    Granted, their device(s) killed 3 and injured over 170 so it doesn't seem RIDICULOUS that they are classified as WMD. Iow, it's not exactly outrage worthy, but it does seem a bit of a stretch

  • Xenocles||

    Can't rule innocent men, &c.

  • ||

    Quibbling over how this law or that law is written is a waste of time. Most of them are written with loose definitions for exactly the purpose that Tuccille complains about.

    Until the intent of the authors of law are actually in line with liberty, until we stop electing Grahams and Pelosis and Fienstiens, we are wasting out breath. If we tossed the entire body of federal law today and started over, in ten years it would all look just like it does now.

  • CE||

    What do you mean "we"? I've never elected a Feinstein, yet a creature by that name claims to be my Senator.

  • Gladstone||

    In this case, something like "murder" should do just fine.

    Since they didn't kill any feds then he can't be charged with by the feds with murder. Can't allow those Massholes to bust him for murder.

  • Xenocles||

    I agree with this sentiment entirely. It's not how it was done that matters, it's the action itself. Murder is the crime, aggravating factors just seem to be gilding the lily.

  • Scott S.||

    Carmen Ortiz will get her redemption story!

  • John||

    And that sucks.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Unfortunately if this one escaped her clutches and the mortal coil no one would give a shite.

  • Coeus||

    Boston bombings: 6 things cops know that most Americans don't.

    1.) There is evil in the world.
    We can scramble for meaning and theories and existential answers but you don’t have to be a believer in the supernatural to see that some people just want to kill and destroy. Many commentators and reporters centered on the theme of why a person everyone describes as a nice, normal guy could do this.

    Study it all you want my friends. No one is immune from the influence of wickedness.

    2.) This is why we have seen the militarization of the police.
    This week’s events will not silence those who say that SWAT tactics and “military grade weapons” are not appropriate for civilian policing, but it will mute them for a while.

    Guess what: you want us to deal with bombers and mass murder? Then give us those tools.
  • Coeus||

    6.) This is what we face every day. Every. Day.*
    Shootouts with murderers? Well, not many of us have, but all of us are standing in line and ready for it.

    You can say, “I’m out of harm’s way because I’m not in a war zone” but if shooters and bombers have taught us anything it is that they can strike anywhere, anytime.

    I can’t think of any warrior cop that I know that would have hesitated one minute to go to Boston if called** or who thinks that kind of thing couldn’t happen in their patrol area.

    *bullshit

    **No shit. Who doesn't like overtime?

  • John||

    Yeah these clowns face this every day. And despite millions upon millions of dollars in militarized equipment, they still pissed their pants and let the guy escape.

  • RyanXXX||

    "they still pissed their pants and let the guy escape"

    ^John FTW

  • SIV||

    The SWAT team at Columbine cowered under cars for hours. SWAT in LA recently "laid seige" to raped and stabbed hostages for hours long after the perps left. Both are instances of cowardice with the excuse-making of procedure.

  • Zeb||

    Warrior cop

    Ugh.

  • Irish||

    That stood out to me, too. No police officer should consider themselves a 'warrior.' You're a public servant, not a soldier.

  • Gladstone||

    This is the only real warrior. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oclf74WhkR8

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    But they wear camo and drive MRAPs!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Was that written by DUNPHY?

  • ||

    Nope, but see below

  • Invisible Finger||

    No one is immune from the influence of wickedness.

    That includes government employees issued weapons.

  • ||

    Speaking of "what cops know"... This is a great book I can recommend to anybody, whether a fan, foe, or in-between of the police.

    http://www.amazon.com/What-Cop.....0671750402

    For example, just in my career, the stuff I have seen, done, etc. is pretty amazingly varied and extreme (in some cases) in retrospect. I hate to sound like Rutger Hauer in his little speech before he dies, but oh the things I have seen and done... Cops ARE privy to some amazing, extreme stuff.

  • John||

    Sure they are. They deal with the dregs of society. There are lots of people out there you really don't want to meet. And we pay cops to deal with them. But that doesn't mean what you think it does Dunphy. Your seeing that and knowing that doesn't give you any vote on how such people are to be treated. You are paid to treat those people humanly and respectfully and by the letter of the law. If we just wanted you to shoot them or beat the shit out of them, we would go find plenty of people who would do that for free and save us the money on your paycheck.

  • ||

    I take great pride in treating people humanely and respectfully. Im one of the good guys, John. I have nothing but pride for how I have treated people. It's why I have universal respect - from perps, prosecutors, defense, business owners etc. There are lots of us out here, John - Good cops doing a hard job very well.

    That doesn;t take away from my point about the things we have seen and done and the insight it gives us into human behavior, especially at the extremes.

    So what do I "think it means" that it doesn't mean.

    Again, I stand by my record. It's exemplary. Don't criticize what you don't know about. Some of us are out there doing the right thing. Day in and day out. I take immense pride in that.

  • John||

    I have seen and done things at the extreme too. Here is the problem, you stay around that long enough your forget that it is the extreme and start thinking everyone is like that. That is where cops and DAs go wrong. And why they shouldn't do that job for more than a few years.

  • ||

    Not at all. It just means you have the proper mindset (and for dept-s it means you use good psychological screening CONTINUALLY throughout a career).

    I've done this job 20 yrs and I am damn good at it, but it's never eroded my sense of decency towards my follow man. it's ENHANCED it. I know that if you treat others with respect and dignity... in the VAST majority of cases you will get the same in return. It's a moral mandate, imo not just for cops but for everybody - you treat others with love and respect. The world would be a much better place if everybody would follow that.

    I have a VERY low use of force incident rate. Why? Because I have good command presence (physically fit, etc.) and also because I treat people with respect and know how to talk with people.

    This is ultimately a people job. Good cops learn how to interact with people and overwhelmingly if you do, you can get voluntary compliance most of the time - no need for force.

    We are out there. And ime, the vast majority of cops are good people doing their job well. They may fuck up occasionally, but they are trying to do the right thing and almost always succeed at it.

  • SIV||

    You make it sound like you are a CPS caseworker, or something.

  • ||

    God forbid. Good friend of mine is CPS and all I have to say is - more power to them. Having to do THAT job is not for me. Talk about thankless.

    Seriously, though if I can reiterate this - get the book

    http://www.amazon.com/What-Cop.....0671750402

    Whether a cop hater, lover, or whatever, it can only enhance your knowledge of what we do, know, how it affects us, plus it's a fascinating read and will give you a lot of insight into a "secret world" most people will never experience.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Despise this stuff.

    All of these amplifiers, thought/hate crimes, etc are designed to do one thing: Otherize.

    We have a perfectly good charge for someone who murders people: Homicide.

    If we think he's part of a foreign entity that seeks the destruction of the US then we have: Treason

    It fucking needs to be enough that you've murdered someone, without bullshiting about HOW you did it. These triple-doggie-dare criminal charges lead to the unequal treatment of crime victims by placing some victims in special categories, certain offenders in special categories, and certain weapons in special categories in gross violation of our constitutional rights.

  • ||

    Yea, the feds have to have SOME way to make this a federal crime. Mere murder (in most cases) isn't. Did you read the indictment? Commerce clause stuff included in it.

    I am glad there IS a federal nexus, since it opens up the death penalty, but I agree with your sentiment

  • Nazdrakke||

    Yeah, I read it. Commerce fucking Clause. It's like magic dust. Nothing it can't do.

    I oppose the death penalty, personally, and one of the reasons I do is because of it's wildly erratic application, and the BS reasoning that goes into justifying it for politically convenient purposes.

  • John||

    Charge them with Treason. That carried the death penalty and is a federal crime. And if you can't make the foreign nexus for it to be Treason, then maybe it is just a local crime and should be left up to the State.

    No one made Massachusetts get rid of the death penalty. If the Massholes don't like the idea of this guy dying peacefully in prison, too bad. They are the ones that got rid of the death penalty.

  • ||

    THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^

  • SIV||

    The pressure cooker was wholly made in Massachusetts?

  • Gladstone||

    OT: Futurama cancelled. Again.
    http://www.hollywoodreporter.c.....ime-443943

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    That can't be an expensive show to produce. Maybe it can find another home.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Netflix

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I don't know what that is. My television set stops at channel 13, like God intended.

  • SIV||

    UHf is of teh debbil.

  • SouthernSeaDog(Y-tarian)||

    I really only have satellite for sports and news.

    The rest of the channels are shit..

  • RyanXXX||

    ...the horror. I don't understand how one could survive without at least Premium Cable

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Jenson Button accused McLaren team-mate Sergio Perez of driving dangerously during Sunday's Bahrain Grand Prix.

  • John||

    Isn't the mere act of driving an F1 car "driving dangerously'?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    "We'll have to have a little chat I think because I don't like banging wheels at 300kph. That's dangerous."
  • Almanian!||

    Pussies.

    Dani Pedrosa almost ran over his teammate Marc Marquez in Sundays MotoGP. They were doing 300+ kph down one of the straights. On two wheels.

    Big balls.

  • RyanXXX||

    Did anyone catch last sunday's Game of Thrones? Holy Shit, I knew that climax was coming since I've read the books, but it still blew me away.

    "A dragon is not a slave" = nerdgasm

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    NO SPOILERS

  • RyanXXX||

    FUCK YOU

    TYRION GAY-MARRIES HIS FATHER AND THEY SEND A GRUMPKIN TO KILL ROBB STARK

  • MJGreen||

    BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SNARKS!?!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I just saw it. WTF was in varys' crate?

  • ||

    Um, Varys spent like 5 mins explaining who it was.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I thought he was being metaphorical.

  • ||

    A metaphorical wizard metaphorically cut his metaphorical balls off?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I thought in Westeros Eunuch was a title for a position.

  • ||

    Hodor is crowned king.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    MATT DAMON

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Yeah! I am not a slave!

  • Alice Bowie||

    I feel that showing up with a machine gun and kill 23 six year old's is a case Use of Weapon of Mass Destruction. He killed way more people than this fellow...and that wasn't a terrorist attack???

  • John||

    What makes it a terrorist attack is that it is done for a political purpose. What is this guy's political purpose? You are right, calling it a WMD is just stupid and demeaning to the term.

    If you want to make this a federal case, then charge him with treason or terrorism or some act that has a foreign nexus. Otherwise, it is just another murder case in Boston.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • John||

    I thought Alice was a black dude.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Alice talks like a bitch, she gets called a bitch.

  • ||

    I feel that showing up with a machine gun

    So are you clueless or mendacious?

  • Alice Bowie||

    I think all random killings regardless of what is used to be prosecuted on the state-level murder charges.

    Why should it matter that the victims are Jewish or the Perp is an Arab or a Klansman ... It should all be treated as murder in the USA under state laws.

    I survived both 1993 and 2001 WTC Attacks. I consider myself a victim of this. I blame our foreign policy against the Arabs that started around 1947 and we haven't had a year of peace since.

    The word terrorist is the wrong word.
    The word terrorist is another way of say ENEMY. That is the word to be used. The self-righteous side always calls the other side terrorist. As the Arabs call us Terrorist

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I survived both 1993 and 2001 WTC Attacks. I consider myself a victim of this

    I find that highly unlikely.

    I was there in 93. Tell me, what was the weather like on that day? I remember it well.

  • Robert||

    It was the day I went to see the movie Falling Down, ironically enough.

  • Irish||

    I survived both 1993 and 2001 WTC Attacks. I consider myself a victim of this. I blame our foreign policy against the Arabs that started around 1947 and we haven't had a year of peace since.

    I'm sorry to hear that. That's really horrible.

  • RyanXXX||

    You've got nothing on the guy who was in Hiroshima on business and then flew back home to Nagasaki XD

  • Invisible Finger||

    On business? He worked for Mitsubishi, the target. It was government business.

  • John||

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2.....ests-made/

    Apparently the plot in Canada was controlled by an Al Quada cell in Iran. But Reason assured me that the Iranians hate Al Quada and would never work with them. This just can't be true.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/0.....-suspects/

    What they do have in common though, as the Foreign Affairs article points out, is a hatred of the U.S.—and, by extension, if these latest allegations prove true, Canada. By having the organization close at hand, some believe Iran’s leaders might hope to employ the terror group in the event a direct conflict with the U.S. or Israel break out.
    Whatever the case, as police continue their probe into the alleged plot, the exact role of Iran will be a crucial part of the investigation.
  • Calidissident||

    Just because a terror cell is located in a certain country doesn't mean it has the approval or support of that country's government. It's possible, but let's wait and see if there's any evidence to support that notion

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    True, but the Iranians can believe "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" just much as anyone else.

  • Calidissident||

    Like I said, it's possible, but the fact that the terror cell is located in Iran isn't proof of government involvement (and of course right now we're taking the authorities' word for everything. It's not like these guys haven't screwed up before)

  • ||

    Al-Qaeda elements “located in Iran.” No indication “state-supported.”

  • RyanXXX||

    Why the fuck would the Iranians use Al Qaeda to attack Canada? John are you one of those who think they are completely irrational nutzos?

    BTW, seeing as we are involved in financing Al Qaeda in Syria, we really shouldn't cast stones on this issue

  • Alice Bowie||

    I worked in four WTC.
    That building was a nine story building on the 8th floor which at the time was a trading floor for NY Merchantile and various other commodities outfits.

    I was going to park my car in the WTC parking lot that day but decided to leave it in 55Water St as I knew the guy down there and I could do it for free.

    At around noon, the explosion happened down in the PATH. Smoke came up. I was one of they GREY People coming out of 4WTC.

    I don't remember the weather

    Sep 11 was very clear...not a cloud in the sky. I got off the A train at 8:55 or so. I stood on church street across from the Krispy Cream next to Borders book store staring at the gaping hole in One WTC. I worked on the 38th floor and never went into the Building. I saw the explosion at 9:02. I never saw the plane...just the explosion.

  • Alice Bowie||

    To top it all off, on both occasions, I managed to get to 34th and 8th as my Sister worked in the Empire State building...which was evacuated both times. I met her both times and we took taxis home to Dyckman St.

    On, 911, I got home at 10:30 am via taxi...just in time to see my building go down on TV...That was one of the worst things I've ever seen or felt.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Forgive my skepticism. I apologize.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Dang Alice, your actually coherent when discussing personal tragedies.

  • General Butt Naked||

    goddammit...

    YOU'RE

  • Irish||

    Yeah, I feel bad for her now. I thought she was a sock puppet troll, but the fact that she went into so much detail makes me think that she's been through some shit.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Alice is a dude.

    ALICE cooper david BOWIE

  • Irish||

    You seem to know an awful lot about the trolls, General. Anything you want to tell us?

  • General Butt Naked||

    Yes, I have the worst fucking memory in the world. I remember ever inconsequential detail ever, but with anything important I'm like that dude from Memento.

    Seriously. I can remember word for word conversations I had with my parents as a little kid, but all the chemistry and math I've learned are fucking gone.

  • Irish||

    Got a head wound from your time in Liberia or something?

  • Coeus||

    You seem to know an awful lot about the trolls, General. Anything you want to tell us?

    Not trolls in general, just Cheech and Chong references.

  • Paul.||

    Alice, now you understand why New Yorkers can't be trusted with 16 oz sodas. Or own guns.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I don't remember the weather

    It was rainy and overcast.

    I was across the street when it happened. I was visiting my uncle and we went to the city that day. We shopped in Barnes and Nobles and I bought a copy of Lyell's Principles of Geology.

    At least you weren't this guy.

  • Underzog||

    The drive by media would say that the terrorism called for is done by a tiny minority who are not doing it for the cause of jihad and/or Islam because they are trying to whitewash the jihadist, terrorist activities in Boston.

    The drive by media (and maybe FNC as well) cover up for jihad in the name of Islam just as they cover up for homosexuals use of pederasty as an ersatz reproductive method. Apologetics for horrific vice and evil all around.

    "There's no need to fear. Underzog is here!"

    "We shall sodomize your sons...."

    From the Gay Revolutionary, quoted in congress

    "Pres. Obama will fight Islamic terror or his middle name isn't Hussein."

    Don Feder

  • SouthernSeaDog(Y-tarian)||

    This stuff, right here, is quality trolling.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    The drive by media (and maybe FNC as well) cover up for jihad in the name of Islam just as they cover up for homosexuals use of pederasty as an ersatz reproductive method. Apologetics for horrific vice and evil all around.

    \

    Bold words coming from a grosser foss and a meeskeit faygeleh. where do you like the boychicks to schtup you, faygeleh? In the tuchus? In your pisk? Or maybe you're a bit kinky and like it in the pupik?

    Does your momma know you like to take it in the tuchus, or is Fanny too farschimmelt in the kop to know at this point?

  • RyanXXX||

    Why can't we ever have troll fights? Watching Tony "debate" this guy would be better than porn

  • Calidissident||

    That's a good point. Tony never argues with American, for example, despite the fact that he posts many comments about the evils of homosexuality and other things that Tony should find more objectionable than anything posted by one of the libertarian regulars here.

  • tarran||

    I think underzog is warming up to us; he hasn't called us Rhoemites once since he returned from his little 'vacation'.

  • ||

    wtf is a Rhoemite?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Short answer: Gay Nazi.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Such a good show....

  • Irish||

    I have no idea. I just googled it, and all the top hits I get are Reason articles with Underzog posting.

    That's some crazy shit.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Ernst Rhom was a big ol' gay nazi. Strangely enough, he looks sort of like underzog.

  • Irish||

    Holy shit, Underzog is a real guy?!?

  • General Butt Naked||

    Yeah, he's got a youtube channel where he plays the piano and sings.

    His music is about as pleasant to listen to as his comments are to read. And he's a fat bastard.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Irish would have realized all of this if he read my posts, and spoke Yiddish.

  • Irish||

    My mind has just been blown. If Underzog is real, then that raises the possibility that American is also real.

    That's a thought too horrible to bear.

  • General Butt Naked||

    BEHOLD!

    Fucking rachmaninoff too. He tortures that piece like it's an Ay-raby terrist. It should be a crime to play rachmaninoff like that.

  • Irish||

    I prefer Shostakovich for this quote:

    “I think it is clear to everyone what happens in the Fifth Symphony. You’ve got to be a complete oaf not to hear it … The rejoicing is forced, created under threat. It’s as if someone were beating you with a stick and saying, ‘Your business is rejoicing, your business is rejoicing.’ You get up, stunned, saying, ‘My business is rejoicing, my business is rejoicing …’ ”

    I love that quote.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Never heard that before. Didn't the soviets put that guy in a gulag?

  • Irish||

    They denounced him because he wrote music that they said wasn't pro-proletariat enough.

    I don't know how you can tell that classical music is in favor of the proletariat or not, but apparently the Russians could

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    At this point, it should also be noted that Chris Mallory has a Youtube channel; however, he doesn't post any videos, he just posts random racist comments on other people's channels.

    When he's not having cybersex with a 10-dicked winged dragon-centaur in Second Life.

  • Calidissident||

    Irish were you here when Mary Stack was around (I didn't post here, but I started reading the comments here a few months before registration)?

  • Irish||

    No. I only started reading comments maybe 8 months ago and only started posting 3 months ago or so.

    I hear about her a lot, though.

  • Calidissident||

    She was almost singlehandedly responsible for regular quadruple digit threads due to incessant trolling with multiple handles, the most famous of which (named "White Indian") was some sort of primitivist who always tried to call out libertarians as hypocrites (for not supporting primitivism basically). It was pretty absurd (kinda hilarious at first just cause it was so ridiculous) reading the comments here for those first few months. She has come back occasionally post-registration, but gets banned promptly. Some people think she's American. I'm not convinced (Mary was an Obama-loving leftist) but I wouldn't be shocked if it was her (just because she's crazy and was so insanely persistent in here trolling efforts, like American is)

  • Calidissident||

    *her

  • ||

    Care to gambol a while?

  • Irish||

    White Indian is where 'gambol' comes from. I know that.

    Because women used to gambol across the plains, free and beautiful, until the city statists came.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    'gambol' is still in the reasonable filter.

  • ||

    Much to the chagrin of MLG.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I turned that off because the only time anyone says gambol or koch it's a joke.

    I still perp reasonable. I just turned off the filters.

  • Irish||

    According to Reasonable, these are the words that get blocked.

    I disavow.
    gambol
    godesky
    market fundamentalist
    marxism of the right
    zerzan

    The only one of those I've ever seen is gambol. Are the rest Maryisms too?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Jason Godesky is a batshit insane anarcho-primitivist that Mary polarized most of her ideas from.

    Market fundamentalist is a Tonyism, if I remember correctly.

  • ||

    Wasn't Tulip complaining that peeps were using Reasonable to oppress him before he ran off in tears the other day?

  • Irish||

    No, that quote's from the Reasonable reviews in the Chrome app store.

    You really need to re-think the process of adding people to the troll list. MNG and I are now on it and neither of us fits the profile of a troll. Also I was able to increment my ignore-count (assuming that's what the number next to the name is on the list) by just unignoring and ignoring over and over again. Well, unless several other people happened to be ignoring me at the same time, which I think unlikely. That's just asking for abuse from a dishonorable user who has a grudge against someone.

    --Tulpa

    I actually feel kind of bad about Tulpa taking his ball and going home. Sure he can be incredibly smug and condescending, but he's just so delicate and fragile.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    but he's just so delicate and fragile.

    Speaking of that, fuck all you motherfuckers. I'm going to sleep.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Am I on the list?

  • ||

    The auto list is short now. I can't speak for anyone else but after registration it hasn't really been necessary.

  • Irish||

    No. The only people on the list are legitimate trolls.

  • ||

    Tulpa isn't on the auto-block list, the only people who have him blocked are those who choose to do so.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I think when it started people that got blocked by a certain number of people could be auto-blocked and tulpa was one of those. There was a list of names to block and he was on there.

  • ||

    Yeah but you could individually reallow him.

  • ||

    Yes all Maryisms. Not so fun fact, Mary nearly drove John insane. That shit was hilarious for like the first week and then it was a couple months where every last post of the day and every weekend post got so big it would crash my browser. They would only do one maybe two posts a weekend then too so they got huge.

  • Irish||

    Tony: What these libertarians don't get is that taxes and regulations are the price we pay for civilization.

    Underzog: (Spouts random zionist bullshit) HAVE NO FEAR! UNDERZOG IS HERE!

    /Troll fight

    I don't think it would be as fun as you've built it up in your head.

  • ||

    Anyone seen Oblivion?

    Saw it this afternoon and really liked it, but I'm not as critical as some. Thoughts?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    are these people for real?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    #17 Why did numerous mainstream media outlets openly suggest that “right-wing extremists” were behind the bombings in the immediate aftermath of the attack?

    I think that question is quite pertinent and deserving of an answer.

  • Irish||

    Yes, but the answer is obvious. They wanted it to be right wing extremists and wanted to smear their opponents as dangerous and violent.

    There's no conspiracy there.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I want them to admit it.

  • Calidissident||

    To be fair, conservative pundits were definitely hoping it was Muslims. Both sides love to exploit tragedies for political gain. Of course, since liberals have more influence in the MSM, they have more sources to spout their propaganda from than conservatives do in that arena

  • Irish||

    Here's the thing. As much as i hate the way conservatives comport themselves when they start salivating over the possibility that it could be a Muslim, there is at least some reason to suspect it will be a Muslim. At this point, the vast majority of people attempting to commit terrorist attacks will be Muslims.

    What's astonishing about the left is that they're intent to blame people who have yet to actually commit one of these attacks. The tea party hasn't been linked to any damn thing. The left is therefore wrong every single time they try to blame the tea party, and yet the keep doing it.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    As much as i hate the way conservatives comport themselves when they start salivating over the possibility that it could be a Muslim

    Conservatives or Neoconservatives?

  • Calidissident||

    In the MSM, is there any difference?

  • Calidissident||

    "Here's the thing. As much as i hate the way conservatives comport themselves when they start salivating over the possibility that it could be a Muslim, there is at least some reason to suspect it will be a Muslim. At this point, the vast majority of people attempting to commit terrorist attacks will be Muslims

    What's astonishing about the left is that they're intent to blame people who have yet to actually commit one of these attacks. The tea party hasn't been linked to any damn thing. The left is therefore wrong every single time they try to blame the tea party, and yet the keep doing it."

    I don't fully agree with you int hat there have definitely been right-wing incidents of terrorism in the US in recent years, enough that it's definitely a possibility (though not a probability) when there's an attack. I do agree that it's idiotic and vile how the media tries to blame the tea party, as none of the recent perpetrators of right-wing terrorism have been in any way affiliated with the Tea Party (and then of course the MSM also tried to associate a nonpolitical perp like Loughner with the Tea Party). I think both sides should refrain from accusing groups when there isn't any evidence as to the identity of the attackers.

  • Irish||

    Yes, but the 'right wing' terrorists are consistently not small government right wingers. The media jams racist criminals, libertarians, Nazis, fascist organizations and the tea party together and when any of them do anything they call it right wing terrorism. But none of these groups have anything to do with each other.

    Not only that, but look at the dude who crashed his plane into that IRS building. He still gets called 'right wing' even though he quoted the fucking COMMUNIST MANIFESTO in his suicide note. He was an anti-capitalist, not a tax protester.

  • Calidissident||

    "Yes, but the 'right wing' terrorists are consistently not small government right wingers. The media jams racist criminals, libertarians, Nazis, fascist organizations and the tea party together and when any of them do anything they call it right wing terrorism. But none of these groups have anything to do with each other."

    Agreed. Most "right-wing" terror incidents I can think of in recent years are either Neo-Nazis or anti-abortion activists. McVeigh may be the exception, although he's far from the average small-government right-winger

    "Not only that, but look at the dude who crashed his plane into that IRS building. He still gets called 'right wing' even though he quoted the fucking COMMUNIST MANIFESTO in his suicide note. He was an anti-capitalist, not a tax protester."

    Great example. The media pretends like left-wing political violence in this country doesn't exist, but you have incidents like this, the Discovery building shooting, the attempted FRC attack, ecoterrorism, etc. that say otherwise. And Occupy Wall street has been more violent than the Tea Party.

    I think the reason it doesn't get talked about is that the left wing media of course wants to ignore it and focus on right wing violence (or potential violence), while conservative media prefers to focus on Islamic terrorism

  • Coeus||

    This guy has a theory.

    What is unreasonable is the impulse to blame mainstream conservatives, including the Tea Party, a diffuse mass movement that has never been linked to any violence. Never forget that after the Tucson massacre of 2011, the New York Times editorialized that “it is legitimate to hold Republicans and particularly their most virulent supporters in the media responsible”–even though it was that the killer had no political motive.

    What the hope-they’re-white crowd really wishes for is a reason to treat their domestic political adversaries as enemies of the state.
  • Irish||

    James Taranto is the shit. He also pissed off all the liberals because he wrote an absolutely spectacular takedown of that terrible Gabby Giffords article in the times.

    It consisted of him going argument by argument and pointing out the dozens of logical fallacies the article engaged in.

  • Coeus||

    He also pissed off all the liberals because he wrote an absolutely spectacular takedown of that terrible Gabby Giffords article in the times.

    The left feels that, in order to show the proper respect to Gabby, we must pretend that we're also brain damaged when she speaks.

  • Irish||

    The left believes that you shouldn't be allowed to disagree with someone who has suffered a tragedy. If something bad happens and the person it happened to wants you to give up all of your rights, you should.

  • Tman||

    His abortion piece about Gosnell was devastating, in both historical reference and general outlook at the results that were horrifying to contemplate.

    The same dude who was responsible for Roe v Wade on trial 30 years later for slaughtering infants.

    Well done government!

  • Calidissident||

    Is there any proof, aside from Steve Emerson's assertions on Hannity, that the Saudi guy that was initially a person of interest is actually getting deported?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    They are worried. Letterman just made a Rand Paul hair joke.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Mall ninja 10/22

    Place your order today!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Dan Bylsma became the fastest coach to 200 wins.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I don't know how, but he gets everybody to buy into the system he's got. It's like a cult, the first thing a new guy will talk about in the local media is getting used to the system, and how everybody's using the system.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

  • ||

    The lady is cute.

  • ||

    Dude's already been fired.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    That's fuckin' shit.

  • Irish||

    Well, he fucking sucked, even beyond the "fucking shit" part.

    Um...I'm A.J. and I graduated from West Virginia University. Um, so I'm used to being from the East.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I think they were both flustered by the cussin'

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    How do you explain that on your resume?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    As "gay fuckin' shit", of course.

  • Irish||

    No, he didn't say gay. He was trying to say the name of a guy who ran in the Boston Marathon whose name ends in 'Ghey.' Apparently the guy is Kenyan.

  • Irish||

    AJ seems like a pretty cool guy though. His posts are like 'Man, sometimes things don't workout, but thanks to everyone for the support!'

    That's how you handle a fuckup, people.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    The best twitter feed for North Dakota anchor

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Scott Shackford ‏@SShackford 2m
    I have reached the point where I can't tell whether Reason commenters are being sarcastic or not.
  • Irish||

    SUCCESS!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

  • WomSom||

    Roll that beautiful bean footage!

    www.Dodge-CISPA.tk

  • SharePointCharlie||

    Maybe we should start calling nuclear weapons "Weapons of Massively Mass Destruction."

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    My God! Tuccille just posted something and I agree with every word!

    What's that flying outside my window...

    Are those...pigs?????????????????????

  • ||

    (iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce

    I wonder how much gunpowder is in an M-80?

    "Son, when I was a kid, we threw weapons of mass destruction at each other on the 4th Of July, just for shits and giggles."

  • Invisible Finger||

    Hate me if you must...

    Put this guy on trial, and me on the jury, for murder and my first reaction is "guilty".

    Put him on trial, and me on the jury, for "Using Weapons Of Mass Destruction" and my first thought is "nullification".

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