Brickbat: The First Shall Be Suspended

As students at a Phillipsburg, Pennsylvania, middle school were leaving for lunch, substitute teacher Walter Tutka told the last student to leave the classroom "Just remember the first will be last and the last will be first." The student asked where that phrase came from, and Tutka told him it was in the Bible. The student later asked him about it again, and Tutka handed him his personal Bible to look it up. The school board barred Tutka from substitute teaching for the rest of the school year for violating district policy barring the distribution of religious material.

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  • waaminn||

    You have got to admit that jsut makes a ll kinds of crazy sense dude.

    www.ImaAnon.tk

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    There are two kinds of crazy in this world: dudes who make sense of Roman numerals and dudes who don't.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Arabic numeralist!

  • Ted S.||

    I do all my caluclations in base i.

  • sarcasmic||

    There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who do not.

  • Aresen||

    I imagine you missed Ted S' joke.

    It probably went past you faster than the speed of light.

  • sarcasmic||

    It was a little to complex. I couldn't find the root.

  • niobiumstudio||

    You and your damn imaginary counting systems...

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    He should have told the kid to google it. He could have been teacher of the year.

  • Rich||

  • Juice||

    I'm ok with this.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Because the teacher showed him the source of a quote in order to answer the student's question?

  • $park¥||

    Because the teacher is obviously an idiot for even thinking to bring a Biblical quote to a public school. Like it or not, that stuff is verboten now.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Remember to make that same argument when it comes to drug busts, and SWAT, and tax demagoguery, the commerce clause, and civil forfeiture, and anything else where the weight of the state has become overwhelming.

    Other Biblical quotes:
    Nothing but skin and bones
    I escaped by the skin of my teeth
    There's a time and a place for everything
    Going the extra mile
    United we stand, divided we fall
    The writing on the wall

    And so on. It's pretty ignorant to believe that Biblical quotes aren't used almost every day in every school.

  • $park¥||

    Remember to make that same argument when it comes to drug busts, and SWAT, and tax demagoguery, the commerce clause, and civil forfeiture, and anything else where the weight of the state has become overwhelming.

    You make it sound like I don't use that exact argument. Stupid laws continue to exist because not enough people really give a shit about them. The selective outrage is just plain tiresome at this point. In most people's minds, there are no bad laws until they get affected by bad laws. And then they're only pissed because it affected them, not because it's a bad law.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    The selective outrage is just plain tiresome at this point.

    Selective outrage by whom? Almost everyone sane who posts here is outraged by all of the stupid laws.

    You make it sound like I don't use that exact argument.

    So when the next egregious eminent domain case comes down the pike, your position will be "like it or not, that's just how it is now"?

  • sloopyinca||

    Hey, I just wanted to say that I thoroughly enjoyed the death penalty debate with you yesterday. We obviously disagree on it's implementation, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. Cheers.

  • $park¥||

    Selective outrage by whom? Almost everyone sane who posts here is outraged by all of the stupid laws.

    Selective outrage by the type of morons who love the idea of the TSA protecting them until the TSA starts feeling up their child but then only hate the TSA for feeling up their child.

    So when the next egregious eminent domain case comes down the pike, your position will be "like it or not, that's just how it is now"?

    Many people around here like to sarcastically comment "THE LAW IS THE LAW, HURR DURR" and then bitch about how we're supposed to be a nation that follows rule of law not rule of man. You want a nation of laws? Then choke on every last shitty law that gets passed. Either that or do something about it. The fact that there are so few people who are willing to do anything about the shitty laws just shows what the people in this country actually want.

    You will never hear me champion a single stupid law, but that doesn't make them go away. I would LOVE for the country to return to some sense of sanity, but I'm just me and can't make it happen by myself.

  • Aresen||

    Even in the most free societies, there are stupid laws. Intelligent people know when to ignore them.

    Further, even the best laws can be applied stupidly. Good administrators know when to ignore violations.

    You need both well-written laws and intelligent administrators.

  • $park¥||

    Even in the most free societies, there are stupid laws. Intelligent people know when to ignore them.

    There are stupid laws that get selectively enforced based on the mood of the enforcers. Yes, most people do ignore them, but again, that doesn't make them stop being laws. And if an enforcer feels like busting you for not following it today, too bad for you.

    Further, even the best laws can be applied stupidly. Good administrators know when to ignore violations.

    A really good administrator would know when a law shouldn't be and would move to eliminate it. If an administrator ignores a violation then they aren't fit to be an administrator.

  • Aresen||

    When you are rushing a person to hospital, you tend to ignore traffic bylaws. Intelligent cops know that is a time to ignore such violations.

  • $park¥||

    When you are rushing a person to hospital, you tend to ignore traffic bylaws. Intelligent cops know that is a time to ignore such violations.

    Do they?

    The officer, upon hearing of the alleged medical dilemma, called for an ambulance and continued writing the ticket.

    Now, I suppose you could get around your claim by saying this officer wasn't intelligent. But these are the people who become police officers. And if we have to wait for intelligent people to fill these roles then we might as well not have them.

  • Aresen||

    I had that precise incident in mind when I made the comment.

    The officer was a stupid fucking jerk.

  • $park¥||

    The officer was a stupid fucking jerk.

    Agreed. Now all we need to do is figure out how to get someone with enforcement powers that is having a bad day to not enforce a law that is inappropriate in this particular situation.

  • sloopyinca||

    We could start by abolishing their unions, qualified immunity and creating real citizens review boards to weed out the idiots.

  • Aresen||

    It's pretty ignorant to believe that Biblical quotes aren't used almost every day in every school.

    This^10

    The King James Bible had more influence on English speech than any dozen other books. Even the most radical atheist cannot go a day without using a phrase from the KJV. (It is my favorite version because the poetry is so great. Ecclessiastes and the Psalms are particularly beautiful.)

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Phillipsburg is in New Joisey, not Pennsylvania.

  • A Mathematician||

  • BlueBook||

    The higher, the fewer.

  • Bardas Phocas||

    Why wasn't the kid suspended for asking questions?

  • ||

    ^Nice.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Thank Gaia we can still suspend a teacher for showing a kid a primary source of a quote!

  • Bee Tagger||

    Some crafty kids should start a religion based around their history books. Voila, no more history class or history teachers.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    If that "history book" was written by Zinn, there already is a religion based around it. And the public schools are fully devoted to it.

  • ||

    I got my hands on a copy of APHotUS a while back to see if its contents were really as heinous as our ilk always claimed.

    They weren't They were far worse.

  • Zeb||

    I need to read that some time. I always want to tell people who tell me how great it is to shut the fuck up, but I think I ought to know what is in the book first.

  • ||

    I'm no fan of public education, so I don't much give a shit, but of all the reasons we have to kick public teachers in the balls (and vulvas), they had to choose this one? Seriously?

  • $park¥||

    Live by the stupid regulations, die by the stupid regulations.

  • SIV||

    Those damn right-wing fundies and their school book-banning again.
    I'm sure the ALA will get right on this.

  • SugarFree||

    Here's your first Culture War Cookie of the day.

    It's so exciting! How many will you get today?

  • SIV||

    Who started the culture war?

    Juice| 1.29.13 @ 7:30AM |#

    I'm ok with this.
  • SugarFree||

    Are you angling for another? That doesn't really cut it.

  • SIV||

    I presciently anticipated all the other Atheist Culture Warriors chiming in.
    Hazel wins the cookie for the assertion "Christian conservatives" use Biblical allusions as stealth proselytizing.

  • Way Of The Crane||

    I'm surprised that Tutka was able to get the Bible through the school's security in the first place.

  • ||

    I don't see any reason assault Bibles should be legal.

  • Ska||

    Who really needs an old and new testament?

  • sarcasmic||

    Bible pages make great rolling papers, so I've been told.

  • Tim||

    Don't even get into the Book of Mormon.

  • RBS||

    Assault Bibles? Like Dianetics?

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Somewhere John Travolta just shuddered.

  • Way Of The Crane||

    No one needs more than 7 Psalms in their Bible.

  • Bardas Phocas||

    Who is the 10th Psalm referring to?

    He sits in the lurking places of the villages;
    In the secret places he murders the innocent;
    His eyes are secretly fixed on the helpless.
    He lies in wait secretly, as a lion in his den;
    He lies in wait to catch the poor;
    He catches the poor when he draws him into his net.
    So he crouches, he lies low,
    That the helpless may fall by his strength.
    He has said in his heart,
    “God has forgotten;
    He hides His face;
    He will never see.”

  • SugarFree||

    OYG! How did he survive in the desert with all that hair?

  • $park¥||

    Vladimir Putin?

  • sarcasmic||

  • SugarFree||

    I'm torn. I like seeing teachers fired, but I would much rather see them fired over the gross incompetence many display in a day.

  • $park¥||

    You mean incompetency?

  • SugarFree||

    Therefore, I didn't!

  • Zeb||

    And it was a substitute, so gross incompetence is kind of expected if not required.

  • Virginian||

    Wait I thought Reason was a bunch of cosmotarians who don't cover stories like this.

  • ||

    Depends on the contributor.

  • SIV||

    Charles Oliver predates the "cosmotarian regime change".

  • SugarFree||

    Ah, finally a really reason for a second Culture War Cookie. Don't wolf it down, we have a long day ahead of us and I don't want you to get a tummyache.

  • sloopyinca||

    Substitute teachers typically aren't in the teachers union. That's the only reason this guy got suspended. If he were one of those in the protected class, he would have walked away without even getting called in to the admin office. Hell, union teachers in LAUSD can make blindfolded students taste his bodily fluids and get a transfer while this non-union guy gets sent packing for a semester? Or just google "rubber rooms new york teachers".

    Some animals are more equal than others.

  • sarcasmic||

    I dunno. I mean, he had a Bible. Remember that tolerant liberals do not tolerate intolerance, and they view Christianity as intolerant.
    As such the harder they come down on this guy, the more tolerant they are.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    It's all starting to make sense now.

  • Zeezrom||

    The LORD thy State is a jealous God. Thou shalt have no other gods before It.

  • Zeb||

    Hmm. I had an English teacher in high school who assigned parts of the Bible as reading assignments. Because, you know, it's the basis of pretty much all western literature.

    Seems to me that separation of church and state should require public schools to treat religious texts just like any other text. If you don't believe in it, it's just a book.

  • SugarFree||

    Of course, the guy brought a personal Bible with him to his substitute teaching job. It's not exactly like lugging around a novel you just happened to be reading.

  • SIV||

    Those Bible-beaters never finish "the book" until the Lord calls them Home. Hell, they probably read it there too.The teacher should have directed the student to the library copy, assuming the school has one that is.

  • sloopyinca||

    They do, and he should have. But being a substitute, how is he supposed to know whether they have one or not. Besides, he had one right there.

  • sloopyinca||

    IMO, it's exactly like lugging around a novel you happen to be reading. Hell, had he pulled out one of the Twilight books, wouldn't any sane person be calling for his ouster? Also, anything by Dan Brown should result in summary termination.

  • SugarFree||

    I don't think he should have been suspended, but I also don't think he just happened to have a Bible.

    If he had been a Muslim and given a kid a Koran, Cytotoxic would be screaming for the drones to get in the air. If he had given the kid a book on Nietzsche or Dawkins, John would be having a stroke. He had had his personal copy of Zinn on hand to give a student, we'd all be calling for his head.

  • ||

    Most likely Zinn and Chomsky are part of the curriculum in some districts.

  • John||

    John would be having a stroke

    Bullshit. I don't really care if you agree with me or not. But please refrain from attributing views to me that I don't hold.

    I couldn't care less if he had had a Koran. That is a sorry effort Sugar Free. Just a sorry effort. You disappoint.

  • SIV||

    SugarFree just decided it was a good morning to go all "SECULAR HUMANIST TALIBAN" on a Brickbat post.

  • SugarFree||

    SugarFree just decided it was a good morning to go all "SECULAR HUMANIST TALIBAN" on a Brickbat post.

    3rd Culture War Cookie. My, my you sure are getting plump.

  • SugarFree||

    You freak out about creeping atheism all the fucking time, John.

    If a teach was dragging around a Dawkins book to hand out to a kid in school, you'd be incensed.

  • John||

    No I wouldn't. Show me a post where I ever said teachers don't have the right to express their views in class or that atheism or Islam has no place in the public square. You won't find one.

    That is bullshit and you know it. Take it back or go fuck yourself.

  • SugarFree||

    So you want nihilists with no morals teaching kids that it's OK to murder people?

    Because that's your standard description of atheists, John.

  • John||

    And of course SF, if it is okay for you to freak out about this, why is not okay for other people to freak out about a teacher handing out Dawkins? If religion is to be a verboten subject in public schools, then it ought to be verboten both pro and con.

    Yeah, that will produce a really good environment for learning.

  • SugarFree||

    And of course SF, if it is okay for you to freak out about this, why is not okay for other people to freak out about a teacher handing out Dawkins?

    I didn't freak out about it. I said he shouldn't be fired. Just pointing out the double standard about Christianity that pops up over and over again. And your ludicrous persecution fantasies.

  • decius||

    The wording of this blog post makes it sounds like Tutka merely handed the student his bible to look the phrase up - from other reporting on the incident it sounds like Tutka GAVE the student the bible to KEEP. If you think it is reasonable for a school district to have a policy against teachers using their position to do things like, say, distribute pamphlets about Scientology to all of their students, then you've got to ask yourself what side of that policy this action sits on.

    But why think critically about an issue when it presents a perfectly good opportunity to imply that those damn liberals and their evil attempt to uphold the separation of church and state are cracking down on our freedom to use the state to further our proselytizing!

    I remember when Liberatrians used to be about "free minds" as well as "free markets." It seems like it was a long, long time ago.

  • Incredulous||

    WTF?

    How would criticism of the school district's actions suggest that somebody is against "free minds?"

    Even if the teacher gave him the Bible, the student has a "free mind" to choose whether to read it.

    Also, do you understand the concept of punishment that fits the crime? Barring somebody from working for the entire year after this type of single violation of school policy seems extreme. How about a warning? That would seem far more appropriate.

  • sloopyinca||

    I can't start drinking this early in the morning, so I'll have to unread your last paragraph.

    But seriously, I just read the brickbat post on here at fist, but if you dig into the story, he gave the kid the bible without proselytizing. Also, the school has a long history of religious accommodation for students and faculty.

    If he presented it neutrally, and just told the kid, "it's in here. Look it up", then I have no issue with it whatsoever. His 1A rights to free speech should cover what he does, and he was making no effort to establish a religion in the name of the state.

  • ||

    Not all proselytizing necessarily involves an overt approach. I'm sure Christian conservatives have figured out how to make the "soft sell". As in go around quoting scripture randomly, and then hand someone a bible when they ask you about it.
    "Here, this is a great book! Read it!"

    If you wanted to proselytize in a place where you technically aren't allowed to prosalytize, that is how you would go about doing it.

  • sarcasmic||

    Since any mention of their beliefs could be interpreted as proselytizing, Christian teachers must stay in the closet, right?

    Into the closet you intolerant Christians!
    Tolerant people do not tolerate intolerance!
    If I was any more tolerant I'd have you executed!

  • sloopyinca||

    So, basically, finding the boundaries establish for proselytizing and staying just on the legal side of them is also a form of proselytizing and should be abolished as well?

    Why not just tell religious people that they have no 1A Rights in a public building anymore as it pertains to their religious beliefs?

  • John||

    Why not just tell religious people that they have no 1A Rights in a public building anymore as it pertains to their religious beliefs?

    That is exactly what Hazel wants. Religious freedom means the freedom to think, but not the freedom to act upon it or in anyway ever speak in public about it.

  • John||

    If you wanted to proselytize in a place where you technically aren't allowed to prosalytize, that is how you would go about doing it.

    Since when is proselytizing illegal? Did I miss when we turned into Saudi Arabia Hazel?

    I understand that if the guy had been using class time to convert people or otherwise not doing his job. But this was after class and all he did was hand the kid a bible and tell him to look it up.

    So that counts as "proselytizing" now? Really? and even if it is, so what? He can't express his opinions outside of class time? Amazing how the culture war turns people into oppressive intolerant morons.

  • Wastelander||

    "I can't start drinking this early in the morning"
    Neither can I, as I started several hours ago.
    Wasn't it a sockpuppet who recently bemoaned the departure of the commentariat here from the principle of "free minds and free markets" (or something fairly similar)?
    Back to mirelurking.

  • The Unknown Pundit||

    If he gave the book to the student to keep, it would appear that the teacher did indeed break school policy by handing out religious material to a student.

    One can discuss whether the year long ban for this violation of policy is warranted.

  • John||

    It doesn't appear he did. He loaned the book.

  • sarcasmic||

    "Never loan a book to someone if you expect to get it back. Loaning books is the same as giving them away."
    Doug Coupland

  • The Unknown Pundit||

    The article linked indicates that he gave him the book to keep. Tutka is a Gideon, he likely has a Bible with him all the time.

    It really doesn't matter whether he gave him the book or loaned it to him. The policy is that teachers can not give students religious materials at school.

  • sloopyinca||

    So if the government passed a policy allowing, say, indefinite detention without due process, would you be OK with it? Nevermind the 4A and 5A protections that exist, because it's policy, right?

    Dumbass.

  • SIV||

    The policy is that teachers can not give students religious materials at school.

    Does this apply to librarians? Art teachers? Music teachers?

    It does solve the problem of the forcible redistribution of school supplies. Just by your spawn Buddha notebooks and kosher pencils.

  • ||

    I'm against allowing teachers to proselytize in public schools, and it sounds to me like this teacher was itching for an excuse to hand out bibles.

  • John||

    I am against morons who think that something being "public" means everyone loses their first amendment rights end at the door.

  • The Unknown Pundit||

    ...everyone loses their first amendment rights end at the door.

    It does when it comes to public schools and teachers handing out religious materials at public schools to the students. The fact that you can't see the sense in this rule proves the only moron in this is you.

    Why am i not surpised?

  • John||

    Why am I not surprised any sense of free expression goes out the door when your ox is gored in the Kulture WAR!!

    These sorts of cases shows who actually believes in the free exchange of ideas and who are just oppressive assholes pretending to believe in such. As long as he is not doing it on classroom time, I really couldn't care less if he is handing out copies of the Satanist bible. It is a free country. If your little special snowflake is too stupid to take someone handing them a piece of religious writing, said snowflake is probably too stupid to worry about anyay.

  • The Unknown Pundit||

    And obviously you still don't see the sense of the rules.

    Again, not surprised.

  • Aresen||

    I am a hard-core atheist and have no problem with Bibles, Korans, Torahs* or whatever else in schools, so long as the teachers don't present them to their students as THE TRUTH.

    Further, I really don't think one can be an educated person in English speaking countries without knowledge of the KJV, which has had so much impact that ignoring it leaves one incapable of understanding our cultural history. (Note that I am referring to its cultural impact, not to the Theology.)

    *I should probably add The Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital to that list.

  • Zeb||

    Teachers are government agents. They shouldn't be promoting religion while on the clock.

  • sloopyinca||

    Serious question: are they on the clock when class is in session, or when school is in session? Unless their duties specifically include activities between classes, I think they should be free to exercise their 1A rights then.*

    *Unless it infringes on someone else's rights. And freedom from speech is not a right.

  • Zeb||

    I think they are on the clock when they are in school. It's not as if teachers are just on break between classes. They are still expected to enforce rules and keep an eye on things and as such, they are still in positions of authority and agents of the state, so I think it would be inappropriate for them to promote religion in an active way.

  • sloopyinca||

    So if the conversation went like this:

    Teacher: "By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."

    Student: "Where did that come from?"

    Teacher: "From Richard Dawkins, a leading atheist. The quote is in this book. Take a look."

    Would it be OK to suspend him for a semester?

    Replace a Dawkins quote with one from the Koran. From the Talmud. From Buddhist literature. Or Hindu.

    Sorry, but he was giving the kid the bible as reference material, not as open proselytizing.

  • Zeb||

    I never said he did openly proselytize. I was speaking to the more general question as the discussion seemed to have been steered that way (you brought up walking around the halls in a sandwich board, which is a whole different thing from saying "it's from teh Bible, see"). I don't think that what this guy did was out of line and I said as much above.

  • Zeb||

    I do also reject the notion that religion and non-belief are somehow equivalent, but that is another matter.

  • sloopyinca||

    I do also reject the notion that religion and non-belief are somehow equivalent, but that is another matter.

    Agreed. But shouldn't both types of speech be granted the same protections under the 1A?

  • sloopyinca||

    Sorry, Zeb. I think there was a threaded-comments fail on my part. That was meant to be directed at Hazel Meade and The Unknown Peckerhead, not you.

  • Zeb||

    No worries.

  • John||

    Okay Zeb,

    can they push non religion? For every person that gets pissed off about this, there is probably someone who would get pissed off by them handing out a copy of Dawkins. Why shouldn't they be able to complain too?

    You see where this leads, to no teacher anywhere expressing a view about pretty much anything, which is a pretty stupid way to run a school.

  • Zeb||

    I actually defended the teacher above. Pointing someone to a text which answers a question they had seems pretty reasonable. I wouldn't have a problem with assigning the Bible as a reading assignment in a literature or philosophy class. And I think that a Dawkins book could appropriate in a philosophy or science class (depending on the book). If a teacher was handing out books and saying "religion is stupid, read this to find out why" I'd have a problem with it.

    But, more generally and not necessarily applicable in this case, I think a line is crossed when a teacher, who has authority over students and is an agent of the state actively promotes religion to students.

  • crashland||

    He simply said something nice to the last kid and the kid asked about the source. OMG!!!! Turn the horror up to eleventy!!!!

    Stupid me, I thought we could speak freely in this country.

  • The Unknown Pundit||

    Stupid you is correct.

    He violated school policay by handing out religious materials to the student.

  • John||

    And rules are rules. First Amendment, freedom of expression, a free exchange of ideas in a school all pale in comparison to the RULES.

    Does that authoritarian cock taste good?

  • $park¥||

    And rules are rules. First Amendment, freedom of expression, a free exchange of ideas in a school all pale in comparison to the RULES.

    That's right. You want different rules, start your own school.

  • sloopyinca||

    That's fair, Sparky. But only if state schools are, rightfully, abolished.

  • $park¥||

    But only if state schools are, rightfully, abolished.

    I'm with you on that.

  • The Unknown Pundit||

    I wouldn't know.

  • sloopyinca||

    Um, the 1A trumps school policy, you stupid cuntstain troll. And in the context the kid requested, he was handing out reference materials, not religious ones.

  • $park¥||

    Um, the 1A trumps school policy

    I dunno, I'm not sure I can agree with you here. The school isn't stopping the guy from expressing his views, they're just making him do it somewhere else.

  • sloopyinca||

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    I'd say the school, being funded by government, is violating the 1A in both ways I highlighted.

  • $park¥||

    I'd say the school, being funded by government, is violating the 1A in both ways I highlighted.

    Fair enough. I think it's a dick move for the school, but within their rights to do it. Of course, as has been said, this would be an easier thing to deal with if it were a private (non-government) school.

  • sloopyinca||

    Agree to disagree on whether or not they should have the right to do it, but agree that the solution is abolition of public schools.

  • sloopyinca||

    Um, the teacher should be able to roam the halls with a sandwich board calling for people to repent a long as class isn't in session and he's not neglecting his teaching duties.

    And someone should be free to mock him mercilessly for doing so.

  • The Unknown Pundit||

    Um. no.

  • John||

    Um yes., Sorry but appeals to authority are frowned upon in this establishment. If the rules don't allow him to do that, the rules are wrong.

  • The Unknown Pundit||

    So the school board can't set rules for the teachers.

    Got it.

  • sloopyinca||

    Not that violate the Constitution, dipshit.* Could they set a "rule" that says the teachers must submit to a cavity search whenever they walk on campus? Or that their cars are subject to search at the principal's discretion even if parked off campus?

    *They could at private schools.

  • sloopyinca||

    Why not? Does the 1A not exist in your world?

  • $park¥||

    Hold on a second there sloop. Does the school not have the right to eject the teacher from their grounds?

  • Guy Incognito||

    Dude, you totally missed a chance to say "Hang on, sloopy. Sloopy, hang on."

  • $park¥||

    Doh. Well my excuse is that as old as I am I'm still not that old.

  • Zeb||

    I don't know about that. Teachers are still working when in the halls between classes. They have authority and should not be able to use that position to promote religion.

    That said, this was just showing someone a book and being punished for it is ridiculous. And getting rid of government run schools would fix all of it.

  • Zeb||

    And also, the students are compelled to be there. They don't have the option of going somewhere else if the teacher with the sandwich board is following them through the halls telling them how great Jesus is.

  • The Unknown Pundit||

    He's member of the Gideons, Hazel.

    I suspect you are correct. Of course Tutka would likely never to admit to it publicly.

  • crashland||

    Seems like somebody who cares about freedom in Phillipsburg needs to run for the school board. Now if the quote came from a condom wrapper...

  • The Unknown Pundit||

    Does that authoritarian cock taste good?

    I wouldin't know. The last I looked, you were the one sucking God's dick, not me.

    LOL

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