Obama Thinks He Was “Too Polite" at Debate, Joe Biden at 39 Percent, Jack Welch Says He Was Right: P.M. Links

  • President Obama thinks he was too polite at the presidential debate last week. "It’s hard to sometimes just keep on saying and what you’re saying isn’t true," the president said.  The campaign is now accusing Mitt Romney of hiding his abortion position by saying he wouldn’t do anything to restrict abortion rights, while a campaign staffer was caught on tape apparently helping someone register to vote twice.  Joe Biden, meanwhile, is polling at 39 percent ahead of Thursday’s vice presidential debate.
  • Jack Welch says he was right to question September’s jobs number, that its always based on subjective assumptions, and that attacks on him seemed more fit for Soviet Russia or Communist China
  • The House hearing on security failures in Benghazi revealed an inept bureaucracy, with questions of who knew what when and the usual measure of partisanship, while Dennis Kucinich pointed to decades of intervention leading up to last year’s in Libya as to why there are security failures in Libya, asking how many more Al-Qaeda there were in Libya now than before the intervention and how many surface-to-air missiles remain missing since.
  • The Electronic Frontier Foundation is challenging warrantless wiretapping by the federal government in Massachusetts. The feds argue the state secrets doctrine means their actions are exempt from judicial review. A military appeals court, meanwhile, will decide whether to unseal records related to the ongoing prosecution of Bradley Manning.
  • Pakistanis protests against the attempted assassination of a teen activist and held vigils for her while schools shut down. She is expected to be okay after surgery. Five Pakistanis, meanwhile, are dead in a suspected drone strike in the border region a few days after protests in the country against the practice.
  • Ayatollah Khamenei, the supreme leader of Iran, said that Western sanctions have been ongoing on Iran since 1979 and wouldn’t stop irrespective of the country’s nuclear ambitions. He also said Iran’s economic prospects are better than Europe’s as the rial drops in value.

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  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Pakistanis protests against the attempted assassination of a teen activist and held vigils for her while schools shut down.

    The Taliban are failing the hearts and minds part of leadership.

  • ||

    That girl showed serious courage, she'd been defying the Taliban for years.

  • $park¥||

    Bull, it's not like she was fighting for abortion rights or anything.

  • Enough About Palin||

    True, but she will never need an abortion because the Taliban cover her birth control costs.

  • AuH2O||

    What they lack in stairs and coat hangers, they make up for in cliffs.

  • ||

    Alex Karras dead at the age of 77.

    He wasn't just pawn in game of life.

  • AuH2O||

    Mongo is sad now.

  • AuH2O||

    I hear that in Heaven, they'll take the chinks and the niggers, but no Irish!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Ayatollah Khamenei,

    Ayatollah? I hardly knew her

  • Almanian's Evil Twin||

    Ayatollah you once, ayatollah you a hunnert time - STOP that

  • ThatSkepticGuy||

    Marge: Can we get rid of this Ayatollah tee-shirt? Khomeini died years ago.

    Homer: But, Marge! It works on any Ayatollah! Ayatollah Nakhbadeh, Ayatollah Zahedi . . . even as we speak, Ayatollah Razmara and his cadre of fanatics are consolidating their power!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

  • Randian||

    That was awesome. I want to be the Duke of Fall.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Fuck autumn. This is the time of year my home gets assaulted by Asian lady beetles and, this year, stink bugs. I want it to go straight from summer to Game of Thrones north-of-The-Wall frozen ice land. Freeze every one of those sons of bitches before they can get into my house. That is all.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    "...thus signaling the completion of his metamorphosis into Mr. Wintertime Asshole Man."

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    But I'm the opposite. I welcome winter. I guess I'm Bizarro Duke of Fall.

  • Paul.||

    Those of us who ski and snowboard also welcome winter.

  • db||

    Try Bayer Advance insecticide. Blue bottle. Stinkbugs die by the thousands within a day. The label doesn't say anything about the BMS but it sure kills 'em.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I will look into it. I'm the only structure for a mile around and I've had my frost, so the next warm, sunny day they will come at me like the zombie horde from the season finale of The Walking Dead. SPOILER ALERT!

  • db||

    Our house is in the woods and it's like your situation: stinkbug inundation. Spray it around all your windows and doors, and on the ground around your house. Be aware that it kills just about everything including spiders so if you don't want that, spray judiciously.

    Our side porch is littered with stinkbug corpses--this stuff really does the job. They don't die immediately but the next day you will start seeing the evidence it's working.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Excellent. It's all falling into place.

  • Generic Stranger||

    I'd take the Asian lady beetles over the Box Elder Bugs we're getting inundated with.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    He also said Iran’s economic prospects are better than Europe’s as the rial drops in value.

    Ouch.

  • tarran||

    The Iranian religious leaders know fuck-all about economics - and have been driving Iran's economy into the ground.

  • BakedPenguin||

    This. They have one of the least free economies in the world. Without oil, they would be begging for food.

  • Pro Libertate||

    If I were calling the shots, I'd invest that money in industry. Something unrelated to oil and, for that matter, nuclear weapons.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Why aren't you calling the shots? What have you done with your life?

  • Pro Libertate||

    Maybe I am calling the shots in Iran. How do you know I'm not?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Touché. You're doing a heckuva job, Libby.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I just want to see how much I can get away with. Right before Israel and the U.S. bomb Iran, I'll have the country relent and announce the mass conversion back to Zoroastrianism. Total liberalization of the economy and government, and the immediate commencement of negotiations for Persia Disney. And free pistachios for all tourists.

  • ||

    I'll have the country relent and announce the mass conversion back to Zoroastrianism.

    Those of us who lie in wait will not let you blaspheme the name of Ahura Mazda

  • T||

    Oh, so it's only cool when the Japnese do it? That's... well, you know.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Angra Mainyu shall be purged from Iran.

  • Paul.||

    The Iranian religious leaders know fuck-all about economics - and have been driving Iran's economy into the ground.

    How is this different from Europe?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Navy spy sold secrets to Russia for $3K a month

    Canadian Forces Sub-Lt. Jeffrey Paul Delisle walked into the Russian Embassy in Ottawa in 2007 and offered to sell secrets to that country's military intelligence agency, beginning an espionage career that lasted almost four years, according to court details revealed by CBC News after the naval officer pleaded guilty to spying.
  • The Hammer||

    Russia ain't what she used to be.

  • Jerry on the road||

    You have to be pretty stupid as military officer to walk into a foreign embassy, especially in your own capital city.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    A military appeals court, meanwhile, will decide whether to unseal records related to the ongoing prosecution of Bradley Manning.

    I'll save you the suspense.

  • Rich||

    You mean, whether they've been lost or accidentally destroyed?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Luke Skywalker Hotel

    The hotel is operating inside the former set of Luke's boyhood home, and while you won't find a lot of props here, you can visit Aunt Beru's kitchen, sit in the Lars family dining room, and have a drink at the well-stocked bar
  • ||

    Are the torched corpses in the lobby or out front?

  • ||

    Do the offer blue milk at that bar? How about an interpreter that speaks Bochi?

  • Randian||

    "Thank you, we're the Cantina Band. If you have any requests, shout 'em out.

    (*same alien different voice*) Play that same song.

    Alright same song, here we go!"
  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Not even Mallory Keaton could rack up a Trillion Dollar phone bill

  • Enough About Palin||

    What a hottie!

  • BakedPenguin||

    They should send out bills for that amount to all their customers. All you need is for one person to pay it, and you're set!

  • pmains||

  • Paul.||

    "There were so many zeros I couldn't even work out how much it was," she said.

    Interesting, this is the exact same response European officials have when you show them what their national debt is.

  • PapayaSF||

    *Rimshot*

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Jack Welch says he was right to question September’s jobs number, that its always based on subjective assumptions...

    Which shows the Administration's ineptitude for not more slowly and more realistically cooking those numbers. Instead they came out all burnt.

  • ||

    Yet another TSA horror story. A young woman dying of leukemia assaulted by TSA goons. Her shirt is lefted to look at her feeding tubes, an IV bag f saline solution is busted.

  • ||

    *lifted

  • The_Choctaw||

    I'm not thrilled about searching cancer patients either, but if you make it known that you're not patting down old ladies or people in wheelchairs or whomever you're sympathetic for -- well, terrorists would be stupid not to exploit that, no?

  • Rich||

    Or ... baggage handlers ...

  • Tulpa Doom||

    Terminally ill people are ideal recruits for suicide missions.

  • The Hammer||

    Oh shit, Stack's back. And this time her delusions are more specific!

  • Paul.||

    I live in Seattle but I don't watch Seattle local news... when did this stand-by-the-monitor trend start? I thought this was something only the Onion News Network did?

  • ||

    Obama's supporters think it wasn't "fair" that their man wasn't allowed to use a teleprompter at the debate.

  • Marshall Gill||

    This was posted a few days ago. I still remember the guy who said "you can't be expected to memorize an entire hour and a half long debate".

    "Obama supporters think" ?? I have yet to see any evidence of that.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Guess Obama should have done less Law Review and more Mock Trial.

  • ||

    "Obama supporters think" ?? I have yet to see any evidence of that.

    It'd be interesting if someone coducted two actual polls: one for registered Republicans asking if Romney should be allowed to use a teleprompter, and once asking registered Democrats the same question with regard to Obama.

  • db||

    Could you even make this up?

  • Paul.||

    Obama's supporters think it wasn't "fair" that their man wasn't allowed to use a teleprompter at the debate.

    They're correct, it wasn't fair. Look at it this way, you put Stephen Hawking in a debate with a retarded kid, is it fair that the retarded kid can't use crib notes? Hardly.

  • ||

    President Obama thinks he was too polite at the presidential debate last week.

    Oh please oh please overcompensate in the next one and be disproportionately aggressive and nasty. Oh god please.

  • ||

    I don't think he has it in him. When he's not being properly teleprompted, I bet he's a total wallflower.

  • ||

    No, that's just it, you see. He might decide that he has to be more tuff gai, and then would do it so ineptly that it would be ridiculous.

    Oh please oh please oh please...

  • ||

    No, that's just it, you see. He might decide that he has to be more tuff gai, and then would do it so ineptly that it would be ridiculous.

    I hope you're right. But no matter what tack he takes, I bet he implodes again. His record is horrible, he's useless without a teleprompter, and his opponent seems very, very competent,

  • ||

    Dude, if he utterly blows this next one, there may be mass suicides. IT'S SO DELICIOUS

  • BakedPenguin||

    Everything I've read leads me to believe he's actually a nasty, mean person. Since there are idiots who actually vote on "likeability", it would be hilarious if the mask slipped and it helped him gop down in flames.

  • Marshall Gill||

    gop down in flames? I don't think you can give Republicans credit for his complete and utter shittiness.

  • ||

    Dude, if he utterly blows this next one, there may be mass suicides. IT'S SO DELICIOUS

    I'm picturing downtown Chicago completely devoid of any signs of human activity, a lone tumbleweed blowing down Lakeshore Drive.

  • NeonCat||

    So, like Detroit.

  • C. Anacreon||

    That's Lake Shore Drive, aka LSD

  • The_Choctaw||

    Obama didn't calculate that Romney would just brazenly lie, I don't know why he didn't consider that since going into the debate, Romney really had nothing to lose as his campaign was in shambles.

  • ||

    So you're saying Obama and his staff are abject morons. I already knew that.

    OK, next excuse, idiot?

  • T||

    Obama didn't calculate that Romney would just brazenly lie

    What, did he figure that was his trademark move and the WWE refs wouldn't let the other guy use it?

  • Restoras||

    I hope he wears his mom jeans too. And shit-kickers. And a flannel shirt.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    You've had your fill of the Tears of the Kool-Aid Drinkers. His next debate will be better.

  • ||

    Don't rain on my parade!

  • ||

    You've had your fill of the Tears of the Kool-Aid Drinkers. His next debate will be better.

    I don't know. I'm really buying into all the "empty suit" rhetoric I've been reading from rightie pundits. I really don't think he has it in him to hold up against a skilled opponent, which Romney seems to be. I bet he implodes again.

  • gaijin||

    I don;t remember...how did he do with the McCain or Clinton (Hillary) debates?

  • ||

    I don;t remember...how did he do with the McCain or Clinton (Hillary) debates?

    I don't remember either, but that was back when he was all hopey and changey. He doesn't have that to run on anymore.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    McCain was too much of a puss to hit Obama's weak spots. Hillary did pretty well against President Not My Fault, but everyone on the left actually thought Obama was going to come in and change everything because that's what the media told them to believe.

  • The Other Kevin||

    That was my first thought. If he comes out all aggressive and angry, that will make for an even better show than the first debate.

  • ||

    Yeah, there is a shitload of potential for this next one, so many possible ways he can look idiotic. Oh I can't wait!

  • Pro Libertate||

    I'm reminded of Flounder, when he said "Boy, oh boy, is this great!"

  • Almanian's Evil Twin||

    Oh, it's "great" all right - right up until they smash your brother's Lincoln.

    *breaks beer bottle on forehead*

    C'mon - a laugh?

  • Pro Libertate||

    Hey, it got him a nice gig on Babylon 5.

  • AuH2O||

    That is Emporer Vir you are referring to!

  • The Other Kevin||

    I might actually watch this one.

  • Pro Libertate||

    He should just slug Romney, then get dragged out cursing. His supporters will love it and defend it to death, while the rest of us quietly prepare for the first Mormon president.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I suppose it is possible that he and his debate prep team saw Romney in that debate as aggressively over-the-top (who dares talk to Obama like that?) even as the rest of the viewers saw the governor as respectful if forceful. The Obama people might think that the public rewards asshole behavior toward ones debate opponent and go that route. I would enjoy seeing that, I admit.

  • ||

    There's so much potential here for another disaster for Obama. It's wonderful.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Seriously, I think he comes in with a little more emphasis on culture war nonsense, but doesn't get tough on anything other than that. His record is so awful on the economy, foreign policy, and civil liberties that I think he's very limited in what he can do.

    In a better world, he'd have resigned in disgrace by now. But in modern America, totally inept politicians caught lying multiple times just keep on going, because accountability is something for proles only.

  • Entropy Void||

    Please advise:

    HOW THE HELL WOULD A PRESIDENT BIDEN MAKE AN EFFING "BETTER WORLD"??!!11!!!11

  • AuH2O||

    "I'M OUT OF ORDER?! THIS TRIAL IS OUT OF ORDER! THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS OUT OF ORDER!"

  • Pro Libertate||

    Ooooh, the Al Pacino Gambit. Nice. I might despise him slightly less if he did that.

  • Almanian's Evil Twin||

    I'd fucking vote for him if he did that.

  • ||

    He should just slug Romney, then get dragged out cursing

    . . . hopefully in a fit of full-on ebonics.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Or in Swahili, just to fuck with us.

  • Beefkins||

    Arabic would cause the biggest commotion. SECRET MUSLIM

  • PapayaSF||

    "Crying 'Allah hu Akbar!' Obama leaped from behind his podium and attacked...."

  • ||

    Even if he were to become angry, he'd still look like a whiny pussy with a sense of entitlement.

  • The Hammer||

    Yeah, when you stamp your feet and your voice goes up 2 octaves when you get mad, it's hard to pull off "tough guy."

  • John||

    I think that is possible. When you are learning how to do something forensic, you tend to go from one ditch to the other before you figure it out. And Obama, since he has never had to debate anyone who was prepared and willing to go after him, is definitely a novice.

  • T o n y||

    Yep Hilary basically laid out the red carpet for him.

  • John||

    She did. Obama had never been on stage with a credible candidate before. That is why he looked so bad.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    She was likable enough.

  • Bobarian||

    That made me laugh.

  • Restoras||

    Concern troll is concerned.

  • Spoonman.||

  • ||

    Why waste your time arguing with completely closed-minded idiots?

  • Spoonman.||

    The audience at that blog is generally receptive.

    Not that guy, obviously.

  • ||

    YOU'RE NOT PLAYING BY THE RULES

  • The Hammer||

    Well done, Spoonman.

  • MJGreen||

    Damn it man, comparative advantage does not apply when one country is really, really good at producing one category of goods!

  • ||

    You don't understand. China has cheap labor therefor they are stealing all our good jobs....

    ...or something.

  • pmains||

    Does it take a while for comments to be published?

  • $park¥||

    Understanding what your psychic reader thinks about.

    Tips from a psychic on how to deal with psychics. This little gem is the best part:

    One of the biggest questions I get when I'm doing a reading is when? You tell somebody they're going to meet somebody--and they want to know what day, what hour? They want to know when because they're so stuck on time, and time does not exist in the fourth dimension.

  • Randian||

    I wonder, then, how the psychic knows that a being with limited temporal existence is going to meet *anybody* ever...

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Or that they had already met in the past.

  • PapayaSF||

    Because everybody meets somebody. Now, the real psychic trick would be to say: "You will never meet anybody new. Sorry."

  • LauraB||

    I thought time was the fourth dimension.

  • ||

    On the rare occasion when I am confronted by a psychic I simply ask credulously " You can tell the future?!"

    When they answer in the affirmative I say "So, you already know that I am not going to pay you."

    Works every time.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    "It’s hard to sometimes just keep on saying and what you’re saying isn’t true," the president said.

    If only that eloquent Obama had shown up at the debate!

  • ||

    If only that eloquent Obama had shown up at the debate!

    I want the Obama that has a complete meltdown and launches into a tirade, calling his opponent "a punk-ass, bitch-ass, trick-ass gray ghost, Mr. Charley, whitebread, silver spoon havin' muthafucka," all as Mitt Romney smiles serenely.

  • ||

    I would record that and watch it over and over until I lost consciousness from laughing. Oh, and vodka. Everything is better with vodka.

  • ||

    I would record that and watch it over and over until I lost consciousness from laughing. Oh, and vodka. Everything is better with vodka.

    I don't even really drink, but I'd have to break out some alcohol for that one. I bet the aftermath would be funny. too I imagine Obama having an Al Gore-esque nervous breakdown, gaining a ton of weight, growing a 'fro, and cutting a rap album with Cornell West.

  • PapayaSF||

    He leaves Michelle for Andrew Sullivan.

  • C. Anacreon||

    I'm already laughing and tearing up at that one. Good job.

  • ||

    In France, life often creates perfect metaphors for politics. Socialist French President Francois Hollande and arch-conservative rival politician shared same mistress.

  • Almanian's Evil Twin||

    Oh my. That is simply, divinely exquisite.

    Yes - perfect!

  • wingnutx||

    I hope they used a paper plate.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    By this time, soap-opera fans in trailer parks are turning up their noses at the crude, unsophisticated, gauche, French politicians.

  • Emmerson Biggins||

    found this interesting.

    it's about intrade and presidential betting and stuff:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/.....ing-market

  • Emmerson Biggins||

    And oh ya. Pinnacle sports still has Obama in the 68 to 70% range. If you care.

    Starting to think a bet on Romney is actually a good one in that price range.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Will any of the betting sites accept US debit cards?

  • Emmerson Biggins||

    Don't really know. It has been a long time since I tried. Word on the street is that it is still doable, but it is a constantly shifting pain in the ass to figure out how.

    I have the same account that I opened a long time ago. I just make piddly 10$ bets a few times a year, because I can.

  • ||

    Try setting up an account on sportsbook.ag.

  • AuH2O||

    The Sexual is Political: Jezebel sex advice on facials, etc.

    This is my revenge for no one honoring my wishes and posting the study in the Morning Links for all the early risers to partake. But anyhoo, it has caused quite a stir at Jez, due to this part:

    People — women in particular — really need to get over the "is this degrading?" thing. If you have to stop and think about whether something is degrading or not, then it probably isn't. I understand there are complex emotions involved in sex, so everything isn't always black and white, but I also think that sometimes girls' brains become so clouded by bullshit "feminist" ideals — "thou shall not be treated like an object," "thou shall always be offended by men's pervy remarks" (as if we are not equally adept at dismissing them, and dishing them out) — that we spoil our own fun. Don't take yourself so seriously. In the midst of doing something you want and enjoy, why stop and think, "Wait, should I be getting off on this less and feeling exploited more?" It's pointless.

    The reactions are... fun.

  • AuH2O||

    To wit:

    People — women in particular — really need to get over the "is this degrading?" thing... I also think that sometimes girls' brains become so clouded by bullshit "feminist" ideals.

    Yeah, I'm so sorry that feminists ruined super-hot 19th century sex for everyone, what with their wacky ideas about "consent" and "owning our own bodies" and "being able to express our desires." Feminists fucking invented the idea that women should be free to be sexual, healthy, and happy.

    The issue isn't clouded by feminism. It's clouded by the intersection of feminism, porn culture, rape culture, femininity as performance, religion, biological urges, gut desires, relationships, power dynamics, heteronormativity, and whatever else your brain and your environment decided to throw into the pot. The issue gets mighty cloudy when women have to face the fact that what they desire in their guts and what they hold true in their heads don't always match up perfectly. And that's okay- it's okay to be in dialogue with yourself about what lines you won't cross, and what lines you'll cheerfully leap over, in pursuit of your happiness. Is it degrading? You're right that only women themselves can answer that question, or the other question: do I even care, in this case?

    cont..

  • AuH2O||


    But please, do not give me this eternal fantasy fiction bullshit about feminists being the ones to fuck up the bedroom. Feminism gave us the language to articulate our own desires; and as a result we are all novels in progress.
  • ||

    Stop rehashing last night's PM Links, you hack. Get some new material.

  • AuH2O||

    Epi, I swear to god, do not make me post pictures of Jos Truit again.

  • nicole||

    Besides, we didn't get that far into this one last night.

  • ||

    Don't you threaten me!

    (please don't post any more pictures)

  • AuH2O||

    If you violate our 20 Mile Perimeter around this island, we will launch our nuclear missiles!

    /Andre Braugher

    Seriously though, that show is pretty good so far.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Really? I had my doubts, but maybe I'll look at it.

  • ||

    Yeah, it's only two episodes in and I already really like it. This is why I always give Shawn Ryan shows a chance.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    I am enjoying it as well.

  • Spoonman.||

    Me too. They also resolved my not being able to tell anybody apart issues by making everyone wear different clothes.

  • Killazontherun||

    I'm surprised my brother did not catch the pilot episode. Andre Braugher is his favorite actor, and subs are his professional background.

    I asked him about it, and he stammered a 'shit, shit shit. Meant to record it.'

  • Spoonman.||

    Freely available on Hulu.

  • ||

    Feminism gave us the language to articulate our own desires

    "I want icecream"

    Such a wish was never uttered by a women before Gloria Steinem taught them to speak.

  • Rick Santorum||

    "Feminists fucking invented the idea that women should be free to be sexual, healthy, and happy."

    Why is it that so many feminists are unhappy?

  • Restoras||

    Nobody wants to really, really fuck them.

  • Randian||

    If any male is desperate enough to give her any attention, he gets what he deserves.

  • Coeus||

    The issue gets mighty cloudy when women have to face the fact that what they desire in their guts and what they hold true in their heads don't always match up perfectly.

    Understatement of the fucking decade.

  • nicole||

    Except that's something everyone has to face. Or maybe not, as a Vagina-American, I guess I don't know if guys are just born as totally emotionally coherent beings who never have to be introspective at all.

  • ||

    Fry: C'mon, Bender, let's go. This chick flick is getting me all barfy.

    Bender: Yeah. Emotions are dumb, and should be hated.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Are males temporarily Vagina-Americans when they are, um, well, you know?

  • nicole||

    No, that's when you're rapists.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Rapist-American? What about when we're in the womb in the first place?

  • AuH2O||

    Well, then, you are illegally occupying a sovereign Vagina-American. Honestly, I am surprised they didn't send in the Marines.

  • nicole||

    Duh, same thing.

    Look, I don't make the rules, I just learn them from Jezebel and apply them to myself.

    And I have never talked more about my own vagina than in the past week since I discovered that term. I'll stop soon.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Here's Olivia Wilde on the topic:

    [A]bout the end of her first marriage. “I felt like my vagina died,” she said. “Turned off. Lights out ... And you can lie to your relatives at Christmas dinner and tell them everything on the home front is just peachy. But you cannot lie to your vagina.”

    What followed her divorce was a man-eating sex bender that ultimately left her feeling so lonely she considered “a soft kind of lesbian relationship, just gentle kissing and scissoring.” That is, until she met someone — hi, Jason! —and fell “blissfully, hopefully, wildly in love.” Wilde said she was happy in her new relationship, except for the nagging worry that the hot monogamy (“We have sex like Kenyan marathon runners”) might not last. So, in efforts to protect herself, she outlined the rules for Olivia Land, a relationship Utopia:

    In Olivia Land, relationships can legally only last seven years, without an option to renew. That way it never goes stale. Can you imagine, if we only had seven years? We’d be so nice to each other, so kind, and appreciative and enthusiastic, like we were eating a really expensive bowl of pasta! And in Olivia Land people wouldn’t cheat nearly as much because there wouldn’t be the threat of spending forever with one bedfellow. It just wouldn’t be legal. There’s the issue of kids. Okay this is fun. (cont'd)
  • Pro Libertate||

    In Olivia Land, all the kids go to boarding school at seven. It’s like in Harry Potter!

    I would like to legalize prostitution. Hiring a sex worker in Olivia Land would be as easy, hygienic, and inexpensive as getting a pedicure. That way when away on business or just not in the mood, we could just hire a hooker for our loved one and keep them uninterested in cheating and keep them satisfied. These particular hookers would obviously have to be mute and possibly cross-eyed.

    In Olivia Land, the streets are paved with dark chocolate, and all the people are free of body hair and menstrual cramps.”
  • Killazontherun||

    Olivia Wilde left a message on my answering machine Saturday. I guess I should mention that she asked me to vote for Obama, but I really wished I could leave that part out.

  • Pro Libertate||

    In Olivia Land, you could call her back and offer her money.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I still don't get how it's JASON SUDEKIS

  • Pro Libertate||

    He offered her money: "Hiring a sex worker in Olivia Land would be as easy, hygienic, and inexpensive as getting a pedicure. That way when away on business or just not in the mood, we could just hire a hooker for our loved one and keep them uninterested in cheating and keep them satisfied."

  • Coeus||

    Except that's something everyone has to face.

    While there are exceptions, a guy with options isn't going usually going to, say, prefer big-titted women, but date a small chested one because she treats him like crap, and then lie to his friends about it.

    Look, most men admit we're obsessed with appearance of our potential mates. And we will tell anyone who listens what we're looking for (big booty, big titties, slim and athletic, whatever). We will then not turn down a woman who meets our stated criteria because of her level of assertion (be it high or low), and then lie about it to ourselves and others.

  • nicole||

    Yeah but you might think that waitress is really hot and want to screw her but know in your head that you actually want to be faithful to your wife and have a nice family life.

    I'm not saying it's a mirror image, just that everyone has competing desires.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    wtf is rape culture?

  • Coeus||

    wtf is rape culture?

    Anything they find annoying. By linking it to a violent crime, they can justify using the sledgehammer of government to stop it.

  • Enough About Palin||

    Anything with a Y chromosome.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    It's sort of like a throat culture.

  • PapayaSF||

    Whenever any leftist refers to [negative term] culture, they mean traditional America.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    The issue gets mighty cloudy when women have to face the fact that what they desire in their guts and what they hold true in their heads don't always match up perfectly.

    snicker snicker snicker

  • AuH2O||

    Oh, just jesus fuck:

    The first answer is really disappointing. There's nothing wrong with being aware of the fact that sex is full of sociopolitical implications. It's not bullshit. Even if you engage in the act-- whatever act it is-- you should always think about how you approach it and consider what it means within the context of your relationship.

    Spontaneity doesn't mean totally absolving yourself of any social awareness, y'know.
  • Restoras||

    I think the first question of my next dating career will be did you go to college, not where did you go to college.

  • Killazontherun||

    Life is about editing out the shitty parts to make the most of the rest. Feminist fall squarely in the shitty part of life. I don't know how guys who date or marry them put up with their inane bullshit. Do you not value what you make of your own life?

  • nicole||

    You know what's worse than women who think like this? Men who do.

    My first boyfriend. Man. He was so uncomfortable with fun sexytimes.

  • Killazontherun||

    My wife has not a single political bone in her body, doesn't speak their language, and she's a damn freak in bed.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    If only I could meet a woman who doesn't speak English.

    (apologies to Costanza)

  • Killazontherun||

    Look for the gals driving the really big SUV's. You can't miss them.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    It's not that hard. Just move to another country.

  • Beefkins||

    *Go to Wal-Mart.*

    FTFY.

  • Killazontherun||

    At least women with who are gender-political I can understand their motivation as the cynical game that it is, but with guys?!? That is one way to get pussy, but I'm pretty sure it is not the best way.

  • Killazontherun||

    women with

    with women

  • nicole||

    Oh that wasn't the game at all; he was totally raised that way. Admittedly, his dad was a serious wife-beater and shit, which I imagine is a tough thing to come out of well.

    At the time I was only mildly annoyed by it, but the actual craziest thing he did was to complain, seven years after we broke up, that he had never been able to get over the relationship because I started dating someone else "right away" (few months later) so he never got a chance for closure...

    Also, having dated other guys who did not have these problems, I'm like, holy shit, that actually sucked.

  • Killazontherun||

    He bitched at you several years later? Goddamn. Did you ask him how many gallons of Hagen-Daz he's gone through over those years? Just asking cause he's looking chunky?

  • nicole||

    Yeah, I thought we were "amicably broken up" (meaning, didn't see or speak to each other for years, and I wasn't mad at him or whatever), until then. And it was a whole "you crazy bitch you ruined my whole life thing."

    I think the worst part is that for all of the intervening time he was totally dating someone too. I felt kind of bad for her. But also kind of not.

  • ||

    Thank Jeebus you escaped that, nicole. In my opinion, no one should stay in their first relationship too long, and should have a few to get some experience. We're all abject retarded idiots when we're 15-22.

  • nicole||

    As the child of parents who have been very happily together since they were in high school, I'm torn on the general subject myself. But, certainly, I was super glad to be clear of that one.

  • Killazontherun||

    You see him again, please do this in dramatic fashion. 'Whew! I really dodged a bullet with you, didn't I?'

  • ||

    So do feminsts sell indulgences yet?

  • AuH2O||

    Bill Clinton already bought them all, but you may be able to bum some off of Obama in a few years.

  • Pro Libertate||

    That whole business really killed any lingering credibility in the feminist movement.

  • ||

    "Don't take yourself so seriously."

    Excellent advice that jezzies will never take.

  • Enough About Palin||

    Saw the film Five Minutes of Heaven. This quote is very interesting.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1238291/quotes

  • Enough About Palin||

    And it's applicable to people ranging from Jihadists to T o n y.

    (BTW, Chrome spellcheck suggests that Jihadists should be changed to sadistic.

  • AuH2O||

    Shit, I really do need to learn to shoot before the debt collapses and we get London/Greek style riots.

  • Enough About Palin||

    Yup. I'm buying a shotgun next paycheck.

  • ||

    You don't have several already?!?

    And come to think of it, where the fuck is the Mosquito I ordered?

  • Tulpa Doom||

    You're better off buying one plus lots of extra ammo rather than buying several.

  • ||

    I do things with my shotguns other than shoot looters, Tulpa Dumb.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    "Basics" NRA courses are like $30-$50 (around here at least). Do it, dude.

  • db||

    Or find a club that has a good number of USPSA shooters who aren't assholes. We can train ya. Practice practice practice!

    BTW, I'll be at Knob Creek getting my mag dump on this weekend. On Saturday look for the guy in a reason t shirt with a 10" commando M16.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    Unfortunately I'll be in the PRC next weekend. The one with the redwoods, not the one with the wall.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    "It’s hard to sometimes just keep on saying and what you’re saying isn’t true," the president said.

    So this is his admission he's been lying through his teeth for three and a half years? It's about fucking time.

  • Coeus||

    Check this out, not a single sympathetic player in the whole bunch:

    Occupy members join narc in a bid to save her home.

  • ||

    Jack Welch says he was right to question September’s jobs number, that its always based on subjective assumptions, and that attacks on him seemed more fit for Soviet Russia or Communist China

    The assumption that government numbers can or should be trusted is a statist position.

    Governments have agendas. They are not going to produce numbers that conflict with that agenda. To not take that into account when judging government data is idiotic.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Frankly, a nongovernmental source for such statistics would be nice. Maybe the Censor should handle such things, too.

  • pmains||

    Gallup does an unemployment survey. No jobs numbers, though.

  • Raston Bot||

    ADP

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Jack Welch says he was right to question September’s jobs number, that its always based on subjective assumptions, and that attacks on him seemed more fit for Soviet Russia or Communist China

    Yes, how dare the peasants criticize Lord Welch!

  • Randian||

    You have evolved into a full-on concern troll.

  • ||

    Evolved? It was a TEAM BLUE concern troll from day one. Ignore it.

  • ||

    Even worse, it was fucking boring from day one. It could at least try to be insecure about its height like joe, or something.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    As opposed to comparing to country to the Soviet Union because you got called dirty names by your political opponents?

  • Randian||

    *seemed more fit* Please note the qualifier.

  • gaijin||

    wait, Jack Welch is running for office?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    What am I watching?

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Teh awesome, seems to be the correct answer. (Although I prefer Bill Monroe's old sanxian player.)

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I'd like to think that's how Chang and Eng Bunker spent their days on their North Carolina plantation.

  • Killazontherun||

    Every kid in North Carolina learns about them in school. It's a teacher's favorite day because there will be questions pertaining to 'did they do it? All four of them? In the same room?'

  • Ken Shultz||

    "Jack Welch says he was right to question September’s jobs number, that its always based on subjective assumptions, and that attacks on him seemed more fit for Soviet Russia or Communist China"

    He also said he should have put some question marks at the end of that tweet--like he did with the tweet he sent out the day before the unemployment numbers came out, which predicted the numbers would be funny...

    "Tomorrow unemployment numbers for Sept. with all the assumptions Labor Department can make..wonder about participation assumption??"

    ---Jack Welch

    http://professional.wsj.com/ar.....91012.html

    Interesting that nobody bothered Welch about it when he made the prediction--they only noticed when the prediction turned out to be true.

    And he's right in his assessment. The numbers are counterintuitive considering where the economy is right now. And he's right about there being nothing wrong with questioning the integrity of the system.

    Somebody's gotta watch the watchers.

  • ||

    Popular Tunisian children's magazine teaches kids how to build Molotov cocktails.

    Oh yeah, but democracy and peace are just around the corner.

  • Rich||

    At least those kids aren't learning about 'em from that awful Internet.

  • Rich||

    At least Tunisia apparently respects the First Amendment.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    Are you kidding? We did that in Boy Scouts.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: A Serious Man,

    Popular Tunisian children's magazine teaches kids how to build Molotov cocktails.


    Those will be important skills when le Boche decides to invade again!

  • T||

    Damn, I had to buy old Army field manuals, Poor Man's James Bond, and the Anarchist Cookbook. Kids these days!

  • Ken Shultz||

    What does Tunisia have to do with us again?

  • Loki||

    a campaign staffer was caught on tape apparently helping someone register to vote twice.

    But voter fraud is just a right wing meme! /derp

  • AuH2O||

    Oh, also, on the debate front, it would seem the emerging consensus among feminist blogs is that they didn't talk about abortion, contraception, equal pay, and women's healthcare enough:

    http://jezebel.com/5949281/wom.....hats-scary

    http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....n-vote-too

    I would like Mitt Romney so much more if during the next debate, he gets some question about "War on Women" and just tears the person a new asshole.

  • ||

    He's already softened his stance on abortion, and equal pay and free contracpetion are bullshit issues that he should unapologetically oppose.

  • T o n y||

    he should unapologetically oppose.

    I agree.

    Gee why are there no women libertarians.

  • ||

    Yes, because all "real women" ought to do as they're told and vote for the party that promises them the most free shit.

  • AuH2O||

    ASM, Tony believes that's what ALL people should do.

    You do have to admire the consistency at a certain point.

  • T o n y||

    Equal workplace rights is free shit?

    No really Romney should vocally oppose equal pay--and I won't say anything when you claim that the 30 point gender gap that elected Obama was because all those women are moocher parasites.

  • nicole||

    They're not moocher parasites, they just aren't willing to accept the tradeoffs inherent in life. You want to have kids? You don't want to work full-time for your whole adult life? You want to take years at a time off for child-rearing or pursue fields that are less stressful or physically demanding? Well I'm not surprised if you end up making less money.

    Equal pay for equal work is the right thing for employers to do.

  • ||

    Oh nicole, please don't get sucked in by the sockpuppet. That's what it wants.

  • nicole||

    I will not feed the troll even if it tries to collectivize me. I will not feed the troll even if it tries to collectivize me. I will not feed the troll even if it tries to collectivize me.

  • The_Choctaw||

    My echo chamber is slightly less echo-ey!!

  • T o n y||

    Let's just be clear. It's the Civil Rights Act of 1964 that protects nondiscrimination in the workplace. The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act clarifies that the statute of limitations on discrimination complaints with the EEOC (mandated by the CRA) begins on the date of the latest paycheck (responding to a SCOTUS ruling that put it on the initial wage decision).

    Is it libertarian doctrine that the 180-day statute of limitations on discrimination suits should apply only to the initial wage decision and not the most recent paycheck?

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Is it libertarian doctrine that the 180-day statute of limitations on discrimination suits should apply only to the initial wage decision and not the most recent paycheck?

    Are women really that dumb that it takes them six months for to figure out that their pay is not equal to a man doing the same job?

  • T o n y||

    I don't know about you but where I work you're not supposed to discuss your paycheck with coworkers.

    "Are women really that dumb..." Romney should use that line too.

  • BigT||

    Who decides what is equal work? For identical jobs, it is possible, but for anything non-identical it is impossible. A show-shoveler in Fairbanks should be making more than one in Tallahassee.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    The one in Tallahassee should be paid more because he has less opportunity to work.

  • AuH2O||

    ITT: We are all reminded that yes, Tony really is that stupid.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Equal workplace rights is free shit?

    There's these laws called the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Equal Pay Act of 1963. Perhaps you've heard of them, as they addressed these issues.

  • nicole||

    "Equal pay" [sic] and "free" [sic] contraception are bullshit issues that any right-thinking person should oppose.

  • 0x90||

    Shut up nicole. Only people who exist are allowed to comment.

  • NeonCat||

    Gender traitor! There's no room for your kind in today's America!

  • ||

    I was browsing a Jezzie post once and a woman articulated a point similar to yours about free birth control and one commentator actually told her to "turn in her vagina" because she's of no use to them.

  • nicole||

    How very unsurprising. I will be keeping mine though.

  • Marshall Gill||

    There are a few on the blog alone. Why are you so absolutely stupid?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    He's not stupid, he's mendacious.

  • T||

    No reason he can't be both.

  • ||

    This will come as a major shock to Mrs. OMWC.

  • AuH2O||

    The thing is, you realistically can't outlaw abortions, because otherwise we would have to have the police investigating more miscarriages than they possibly have resources.

    I suppose one could stop doctors from preforming them... but there was, and would be again, a massive black market.

    I mean, isn't that how the very-libertarian leaning black millionaire (TR Howard, I believe) made his money? Preforming illegal abortions for white girls?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    I'm not going to go into this a ton, but you can make that same argument replacing abortions with "murders" and miscarriages with "deaths".

  • AuH2O||

    I mean, it's a fair point, but it is generally a bit easier to peg a death as suspicious than a miscarriage, given the thousands of ways that the body can mess that up.

  • nicole||

    Not really. Abortion is like the drug war in that respect--there is no way to find out a "crime" has happened because no one involved has any desire to report it. Murder victims have family, friends, etc. The only similar complainants in an abortion case would be the potential father, if he objected--but he'd have to know about it.

  • ||

    Not really. Abortion is like the drug war in that respect--there is no way to find out a "crime" has happened because no one involved has any desire to report it.

    Usually it gets found out when it goes wrong and the woman needs medical attention for complications afterwards.

    I would imagine the cheaper you pay on the black market, the lower quality of skill you'd get.

  • db||

    Wasn't one of the main arguments for legalizing abortion that you couldn't lawfully pay a competent practicioner and so were stuck witg the kind of doctor who would run a back allet abortion clinic? They basically begged to pay for better service. Now, abortions are too expensive and need to be paid for by the government to ensure "access." How the debate has changed.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    Murder victims have family, friends, etc.

    Holy begging the question, Batman! Homeless guys who live in cardboard boxes in the alley are not exempt from murder laws, despite not having family and friends.

    Plenty of family members, friends, etc would notice that someone who used to be pregnant wasn't any more, with no explanation.

  • nicole||

    Plenty of family members, friends, etc would notice that someone who used to be pregnant wasn't any more, with no explanation.

    That's just silly.

    But please note, both you and Eduard, that despite our disagreements on this subject I was not making a moral argument at all, only a practical one. If neither the woman nor the doctor want to complain, how would anyone know? The only way is if the procedure is unsafe or unsuccessful--or if one of them told someone who wanted to tattle, or if one of them was a cop doing a sting, or if one of them was an informant wearing a wire, etc. A lot like with drugs.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    This line of criticism would also apply to honor killings. The relatives of the victim are also the perpetrators, and they won't be cooperating with the cops.

  • T o n y||

    And wouldn't that be a fantastic world to live in.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    The thing is, you realistically can't outlaw abortions, because otherwise we would have to have the police investigating more miscarriages than they possibly have resources.

    ???

    Abortion was illegal for a long time with no such problems.

  • ||

    I believe what they meant is that you can't realistically and effectively outlaw abortion.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    From the watchdog.org link about double-voting:

    Chief among the crimes outlined in the code, said von Spakovsky, is the requirement that “you can only register someplace where your claim to be a permanent resident. Obviously, you can’t be a resident of two states.”

    That's incorrect. You only have to have a domicile to vote in a district. We have tons of students from other states voting here in Pgh, and so long as they only vote here and not in their residence state, it's perfectly legal.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    "Well, I keep hearing about this so-called War on Women I have been waging, but frankly, I'm more concerned by the President's War on Truth."

  • Pro Libertate||

    Nice.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Uh, anyone got $1000 to lend me?

  • Rich||

    she allowed a stranger who'd donated said amount to nibble a piece of Ibérico ham off her collarbone.

    "Collarbone"? Is *that* what the kids are calling it?

  • Brett L||

    Ketamine cures depression. At least in mice with actual physical damage. I think I might be depressed again for the first time in 14 years.

    SSRIs are intended to increase brain levels of serotonin, but they do also, eventually, restore neurons. Ketamine is able to repair these synaptic connections in mice with near-miraculous speed. Indirect evidence from brain imaging supports the theory that this "synaptogensis" is the mechanism allowing for ketamine's rapid effects in humans as well.

  • SIV||

    I wonder if PCP works too?

  • BakedPenguin||

    Ketamine cures depression; MDMA is very likely useful for treating a lot of mental conditions, including PTSD; ibogaine "re-starts" receptors, meaning addicts can end any physical withdrawal symptoms from their drugs.

    At least Ketamine is schedule III, which means it's possible it might be approved for use in humans in 15 years or so. MDMA ibogaine are sched I.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    What are the chances Bob Schieffer doesn't ask BO a single question about the embassy attack at the "foreign policy" debate.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Is there something better than 100%? Because that's my answer. Or, if I'm wrong, it'll be styled in a manner forgiving the president before the question is even asked.

  • Rich||

    *cough*BLOWJOB*cough*

  • OldMexican||

    President Obama thinks he was "too polite" at the presidential debate last week.


    "Clueless" would be a better term to describe what happened.

  • OldMexican||

    The [Obama] campaign is now accusing Mitt Romney of hiding his abortion position by saying he wouldn't do anything to restrict abortion rights,


    Wait - wasn't that his position when he was governor or Massachusetts?

    while a campaign staffer was caught on tape apparently helping someone register to vote twice.


    Amateur - Dems do that blindfolded, arms behind their backs and with their clothes on fire.

    Joe Biden, meanwhile, is polling at 39 percent ahead of Thursday's vice presidential debate.


    Expectations are low, so he has the advantage!

    The advantage of nobody being suprised, that is.

  • OldMexican||

    Tony: "Equal workplace rights is free shit?"

    Tony hates women. He wants more of them to be unemployed.

    No, seriously - otherwise, why would he advocate to price women above their productivity? Only a true misogynist would advocate for "equal pay for equal 'work'(*)"



    (*) Euphemism for "job position", not really work.

  • ||

    No, seriously - otherwise, why would he advocate to price women above their productivity? Only a true misogynist would advocate for "equal pay for equal 'work'

    Reality and economics are sexist.

  • T o n y||

    There are plenty of data showing discrimination against women in hiring and wages for exactly equivalent work.

    But as always the anecdotal universe inside your head trumps data.

  • ||

    So clearly the solution is to have the geniuses in government draw up overly-broad laws and let lawyers descend upon comapanies like locusts filing lawsuits everytime a woman feels she got shafted.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Those studies have been frequently debunked, too, because they generally don't compare apples to apples.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    You mean you should factor in things like 'maternity leave'?

    WAHHH?!?!?!?

  • T o n y||

    Two from Wikipedia: studies show fewer replies to identical resumes with female names. Study showing more jobs going to women in orchestras when using blind auditions.

    Prejudice can be unconscious. It's a real thing. It doesn't account for all of the pay gap, or even most of it. But it's a fact of human society and the only question is whether something should be done about it or women should be told to suck it up, forever.

  • Calidissident||

    So now we need the government to review all hiring decisions of course. And we don't need to worry about the government bureaucrats being affected by these same prejudices. They're Superior Beings unaffected by conditions that plague us mortals

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony,

    Two from Wikipedia: studies show fewer replies to identical resumes with female names.

    What? No linkey-link?

    Anyway, resumes for what job? I wouldn't reply to any women if the job was something like, oh I don't know: logger. Bouncer. Chip 'n Dale dancer.

    The fact is that, all other things being equal, the perception that men will be more productive than women on certain jobs is not prevalent because of sexism but because of experience. If one could perfectly hire a woman willing to do the same job as a man for less pay, there would be more women firefighters, or stevedores, because it would mean more profits for the company. Since this is not the case, there's something more in play that affects this decision to employ women that trumps self-interest. You may want to call it "discrimination"; people that are not that simple-minded know it is PRODUCTIVITY.

    The fact is that women are paid exactly what their level of productivity allows, considering the types of jobs men and women take, their preferences and work hours. Unmarried, uncommited women actually get more money than men in equal jobs, compared to married, committed women. There's no discrimination involved, and even if there was, people have a right to associate themselves with whomsoever they wish.

  • PapayaSF||

    News flash: After millions of years of evolution, men and women do not treat each other in precisely identical ways. So, what should the government do to change this?

  • T o n y||

    I love it when libertarians support restricting people's right to sue.

    So is it libertarian doctrine that the statute of limitations on filing a complaint with the EEOC should begin with the initial wage decision and not the most recent paycheck? Could you explain why one is more small government than the other?

  • Tulpa Doom||

    Libertarian doctrine is that the EEOC should not exist.

  • T o n y||

    Libertarian doctrine is that totalitarianism is OK as long as nobody votes for it.

  • Jordan||

    So now having the right to pay someone whatever you wish is totalitarianism? Congratulations on rendering yet another word completely meaningless.

  • T o n y||

    In a world where almost everyone is in an employer/employee relationship for most of their waking lives, maximum employer rights and minimum employee rights is a totalitarian situation. And there's no deducible reason why employers should have maximum rights and employees should have none. That obviously leads to lower standards overall. The right not to be discriminated against at work on the basis of sex is a perfectly valid right considering almost everyone has to go to work.

    Libertarians become egregious on the matter when they start reflexively supporting government restrictions on employees' liberty such as right-to-work laws.

  • Jordan||

    ...maximum employer rights and minimum employee rights is a totalitarian situation.

    Everyone has the same rights. Employees get to set the terms of access to their property just as employers do. They can also trade whatever they wish for somebody else's labor, just as employers can. If you can't get someone to agree to your preferred terms, then that's life.

    Libertarians become egregious on the matter when they start reflexively supporting government restrictions on employees' liberty such as right-to-work laws.

    What horseshit. Supporting trespassing laws is supporting government restrictions on my liberty to enter your house.

  • T o n y||

    Supporting trespassing laws is supporting government restrictions on my liberty to enter your house.

    Exactly. You're using government force to put your finger on the scale to favor property owners over people who want to steal stuff. Fine. You guys also want to put your finger on the scale to favor employers and the wealthy over workers and the poor. Less defensible.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    Employees have the same right as the employers...to walk away from the employment agreement.

  • T o n y||

    And there wouldn't need to be interjections of antidiscrimination rules if there didn't exist workplace discrimination to an extent such that merely being a woman or minority makes you disadvantaged in society--a society in which the competitions of capitalism are alleged to produce more freedom and a better life for people. If you are born with a competitive disadvantage then there are two possible responses: tough shit, take it up with Darwin, or mandating a system that works more as it's claimed to.

  • nicole||

    If you are born with a competitive disadvantage then there are two possible responses: tough shit, take it up with Darwin, or mandating a system that works more as it's claimed to.

    Actually, the only option is the first one. Or have we just not done enough mandating yet?

    My grandmother took care of me as a kid and you know what she used to say more than anything else? "Life's not fair." Granted, it took me years, but I did learn it.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    My grandmother took care of me as a kid and you know what she used to say more than anything else? "Life's not fair." Granted, it took me years, but I did learn it.

    I hate that saying, since more often than not it's used to justify someone directly and intentionally screwing you over rather than communicating that the impersonal fates don't always treat everyone equally.

    Back to the point, you can either see the government as having a duty to treat everyone equally (as libertarians generally do), or as having a duty to balance inherent inequalities in the world by creating its own inequalities (as leftists do). The first task is much easier to do, of course.

  • nicole||

    I hated it forever too, and for the same reason (my mom uses it in the way you cite). My nan is one of the only people I've ever known to say it in the better spirit of the thing. The fates dealt her some real shit cards and all she ever did about it was remind herself that god had a plan. There are some things I don't completely admire about her but the acceptance of that kind of cosmic unfairness is something I aspire to every day.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    Screw acceptance. I always used to curse God. Now that I'm an atheist I just curse whatever happens to be nearby at the time. There's a plastic pumpkin in my doorway that's absorbed enough cursing to stretch from here to the trojan asteroids.

  • nicole||

    Cosmic unfairness only, Tulpa. I curse it too, but I don't find it terribly productive to do so.

  • ||

    I'm short. That means I will get treated differently by employers. When do I get my discrimination protection? When do ugly people get discrimination protection? Fat people? Dumb people?

    Welcome to the real world Tony. People are born differently from each other, and people interact with other people in different ways because of those differences. No law can change that, nor should any law attempt to change it. That's just how private transactions work. Capitalism makes us free and prosperous. It was never supposed to make us equal.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    In a world where almost everyone is in an employer/employee relationship for most of their waking lives, maximum employer rights and minimum employee rights is a totalitarian situation

    This is Marxist dialecitism that should be dismissed out of hand.

  • Lord Humungus||

    along with Marxism.

  • OldMexican||

    and Tony.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony,

    In a world where almost everyone is in an employer/employee relationship for most of their waking lives, maximum employer rights and minimum employee rights is a totalitarian situation.

    If the employees called their employer" "Comrade Commissar," then what you suggest is true.

    If not, you're simply engaging in Marxoid moralizing.

    And there's no deducible reason why employers should have maximum rights and employees should have none.

    Maybe because they don't. Both employer and employee are humans and thus enjoy the rights of life, liberty and property, exactly what they have.

    The right not to be discriminated against at work on the basis of sex is a perfectly valid right considering almost everyone has to go to work.


    You're begging the question, you moron.

    "You have a right to work because you have a right to work" except you're simply conflating the right to work in general (a non-existent right) with the right to work unhindered by sexism.

    Libertarians become egregious on the matter when they start reflexively supporting government restrictions on employees' liberty such as right-to-work laws.

    You must've been born yesterday. Government has been restricting contractual and property rights of EMPLOYERS for a better part of 100 years, and you think there's a war on employees?

  • T o n y||

    Apparently the word "Marx" is a get-out-of-argument free card.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony,

    Apparently the word "Marx" is a get-out-of-argument free card.

    No, it's a word that describes the foundation from whence your arguments stem. That's all.

  • T o n y||

    Maybe Marx got a few things right.

    I'll even concede Ayn Rand got a few things right. Hitler loved animals.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony,

    Maybe Marx got a few things right.

    Yes, for instance: He mooched from poor Engels for a while, obtaining more of a stipend from him than a lawyer, and got away with it.

    But his economics still suck. Bohm-Bawerk totally demolished Marx's theory of exploitation so elegantly that you almost feel sorry for the willy German.

  • BigT||

    "Religion is the opiate of the masses". Marx got that right.

  • The Hammer||

    Tony, of course, lives in a world of strict caste systems, where the noble employee is oppressed by the evil employer but is never able to become anything else or work for another employer.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: The Hammer,

    Tony, of course, lives in a world of strict caste systems


    Simple world for a simpleton.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony,

    There are plenty of data showing discrimination against women in hiring and wages for exactly equivalent work.

    See? What did I tell you? The equivocator-in-chief freely exchanges "work" and "productivity."

    But as always the anecdotal universe inside your head trumps data.


    Concepts and logic seems not to permeate through yours.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    I was just watching an excerpt from the 1992 presidential debates. My God have we fallen far. There was definitely some sloppy thinking and buzzwordism back then, but it was much more subtle and the thoughts expressed were so much more sophisticated than we see now in presidential debates.

  • db||

    I was talking to a coworker today and she mentioned how devoid of real policy specifics the current debates have been. She said people should be bringing numbers and backup data. I pointed out that Ross Perot tried that in '92 and got laughed at. People don't want specifics, because they would have to face the facts and our the survival of political world right now is predicated upon being able to deny uncomfortable facts.

  • ||

    I'm sure that has nothing to do with the vast increase in utterly mindless partisanship that seems to have cropped up as well, as encouraged by both TEAMs and the politicians that inhabit them and the media that fellates them.

    Having to actually not be a completely empty suit means the really stupid and venal power-seekers might not be able to get in, so by golly, make it so they can, because after all, they're the ones who want it the most.

  • Tulpa Doom||

    Excellent point. You're endangering your status here.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    In the last eight-ten years, Milennials and their fucked-up educational backgrounds have become much more prominent in politics.

    Is it any surprise that their candidate of choice is a self-esteem-fluffing poz that tells them how wonderful they are, and how much free shit he's going to give them that's paid for by someone else?

  • Tulpa Doom||

    Every generation is bad with wanting free stuff. The Millenials will have to work hard to match the Boomers in that regard. Though the entitled "self esteem" talk of the M's is beyond wearisome.

    It's strange that the only generation that has any sense is the one I happen to be a part of. ;)

  • Calidissident||

    And your proof of this is ...? (Are you generation X, btw?)

  • The Hammer||

    The SNL debate skits have gotten infinitely worse.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I love it when libertarians support restricting people's right to sue.

    So is it libertarian doctrine that the statute of limitations on filing a complaint with the EEOC should begin with the initial wage decision and not the most recent paycheck? Could you explain why one is more small government than the other?

    Speaking strictly on my own behalf, I'd say EEOC queers the deal from the git-go.

    Also, "sue" not same as "negotiate'.

    Try again.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Speaking strictly on my own behalf, I'd say EEOC queers the deal from the git-go.

    How exactly do they "queer" it? Do they use the semiotic vocabulary of camp culture to subvert heteronormative mores and cultural paradigms?

  • T||

    How exactly do they "queer" it? Do they use the semiotic vocabulary of camp culture to subvert heteronormative mores and cultural paradigms?

    More in the bends it over and buggers it vigourously sense.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    How exactly do they "queer" it?

    Sarcasm, or butthurt?

    I'm too thirsty to touch that tarbaby.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Just yankin your chain. Don't take it too seriously.

  • OldMexican||

    Harvard Study Finds That Fluoridization Of Water Causes Lower I.Q.

    NEW YORK, July 24, 2012 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Harvard University researchers' review of fluoride/brain studies concludes "our results support the possibility of adverse effects of fluoride exposures on children's neurodevelopment." It was published online July 20 in Environmental Health Perspectives, a US National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences' journal (1), reports the NYS Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation, Inc. (NYSCOF)

    "The children in high fluoride areas had significantly lower IQ than those who lived in low fluoride areas," write Choi et al.

    Further, the EPA says fluoride is a chemical "with substantial evidence of developmental neurotoxicity."


    Maybe people will finally rise up and protect the sanctity of their bodily fluids if a study finds that fluoridization of the water makes men not have boners. In the meantime, I'll keep driking bottled water, thank you very much!

  • ant1sthenes||

    Low IQs, but healthy teeth? It's like a eugenics program for creating the ultimate actor. I sense the hand of Hollywood behind this.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony,

    Let's just be clear. It's the Civil Rights Act of 1964 that protects nondiscrimination in the workplace.

    Actually, it forbids discrimination, not protect non-discrimination. The difference is NOT subtle, by the way, otherwise lawyers would not get as rich.

    Is it libertarian doctrine that the 180-day statute of limitations on discrimination suits should apply only to the initial wage decision and not the most recent paycheck?

    The idiot has been trolling here for years and he is still very confused about the libertarian position on such contract rights-violating laws such as the EEOC and the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

    Get it through your think skull, numbskull: The libertarian position is one of non-initiation of aggression, and that includes butting in on other people's business, which includes employer-employee agreements.

    The fact is that people discriminate ALL THE TIME, because we all have preferences. I choose to be with one kind of people, you choose other kinds. I choose Rocky Road, you choose Strawberry Shortcake. I choose to employ women, you can choose to employ men. In the end, it is the productivity of people that determines who gets chosen for a job, if one is really, REALLY interested in the bottom line. This will not change nor will ever change, no matter how many laws Congress decides to crap out of their butthole.

  • T o n y||

    A dessert is not a sentient person with violable rights. You are approaching Todd Akin levels of ridiculousness here.

    Your problem is capitalism (or anarcho-capitalism) is an end to you, not a means to an end such as human prosperity and happiness. If we're going to be forced to live in a capitalist society, and it produces such outcomes as people being less likely to be able to participate in it and improve their lives merely because of which sex they were born as, then that is not a defensible aspect of capitalism, and it's not OK just because it happens in capitalism.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony,

    A dessert is not a sentient person with violable rights.

    "Why doesn't anybody choose me? Aw, boo hoo hoo! There ought to be a law!"

    Same rationale.

    You are approaching Todd Akin levels of ridiculousness here.

    Your comparisons are getting way out there, too.

    Your problem is capitalism (or anarcho-capitalism) is an end to you, not a means to an end such as human prosperity and happiness.

    Again with your problem with concepts. It's like Ted Striker's problem with drink.

    Capitalism is a process, nitwit. It cannot be an end to itself. What I am about (and you're not) is liberty.

    if we're going to be forced to live in a capitalist society,

    Not "we". You have the freedom to start a commune somewhere out there. It has been tried many times before; I believe the only survivors are the Shakers and Oneida.

    [...] and it produces such outcomes as people being less likely to be able to participate in it and improve their lives merely because of which sex they were born as

    So you're obsessed with outcomes, are you?

    then that is not a defensible aspect of capitalism,

    I see. And you think I believe "capitalism" is an end to itself? It is clear that egalitarianism is the goal for you, damned the torpedoes.

  • T o n y||

    What I am about . . . is liberty.

    And I'm about rainbows and puppy dogs.

    Liberty to you entails anarcho-capitalism, a situation that I feel, and can back up with examples, would actually be one of the least liberated societies imaginable.

    I'm just saying capitalism (if you prefer, an organic society of free trade with no rules whatsoever except perhaps to protect the interests of elites) is supposed to have a purpose: improve the freedom and living standards of human beings. If it is not doing that, what's the point? If it's not doing it fairly, then we have a society in which people are disadvantaged by how they were born, something that social attitudes combined with government action has always been necessary to overcome.

    But you don't think the question of whether it should be overcome is even valid, since the only thing that matters is "liberty"--as you define it, so strictly it begins to resemble slavery.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony,

    Liberty to you entails anarcho-capitalism, a situation that I feel, and can back up with examples, would actually be one of the least liberated societies imaginable.

    I understand. For Tony, liberty = not having to be responsible. No effort.

    Again, you want Man to be like before the Fall.

    I'm just saying capitalism [I edited the stupid Toniesque definition out] is supposed to have a purpose: improve the freedom and living standards of human beings.

    No, capitalism has as a purpose the successful trading of goods and services after production. The process involves capital gathering, capital investment and transformation. You have been told this many times, so unless you happen to suffer crippling blows to the head every day, I don't understand why you insist on obfuscating.

    If it's not doing it fairly,

    Oh, don't tell me - fairly, based on your keen insight. Am I right?

    since the only thing that matters is "liberty"--as you define it, so strictly it begins to resemble slavery.

    Freedom is slavery!
    Up is down!

  • Calidissident||

    How does refusing to enter into an agreement with someone else, or doing so only under specific terms that they also have to agree to, violate their rights? I thought you didn't think rights existed? And a majority of workers are women, so I don't see how they're less likely to participate in it

  • T o n y||

    I never said rights don't exist. I said they are human conventions rather than magical commandments handed down from a deity. As such, what they are and how they apply can be determined by intelligent people who live in the real world. In that real world, systematic discrimination occurs. In my moral book, if we're going to subject women to the raw competition of capitalism, we owe it to them not to let them suffer a permanent disadvantage.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony,

    I never said rights don't exist. I said they are human conventions rather than magical commandments handed down from a deity.

    Which means - they don't exist to you. A "human convention" is as dismissable as all of them.

    And rights DO exist, Tony, they're not mere conventions: They're entirely based on self-evident truths, they're axiomatic. For instance, you own yourself. Now, tell me that ain't true, Tony - go on! Tell me it ain't so, Tony, c'mon!

    In my moral book, if we're going to subject women to the raw competition of capitalism, we owe it to them not to let them suffer a permanent disadvantage.

    Because we all know (wink-wink, nudge-nudge) women are all stupid.

    Anyway, the case was closed a few posts ago: Tony, the misogynist, wants women to be unemployed by having them priced above their productivity. Why, oh why do you hate women so much, Tony? Why?

  • T o n y||

    For instance, you own yourself. Now, tell me that ain't true, Tony - go on! Tell me it ain't so, Tony, c'mon!

    Fine. I don't own myself. My feudal lord and master does. That was once "self-evident" too.

    I told you there is evidence of systematic discrimination beyond any differences in productivity. The US Constitution agrees with me that people have a right not to be discriminated against on the basis of sex. It's not self-evident, but neither is self-ownerhsip, no matter how much you want to play the "I'm right because I say so" card.

  • ||

    All forms of discrimination are going to decrease regardless of what laws are passed. That's because unreasonable biases are unprofitable.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: heller,

    All forms of discrimination are going to decrease regardless of what laws are passed. That's because unreasonable biases are unprofitable.


    People like Tony don't care. He's too impatient for that - he wants Man to be like before the Fall and he wants that now!

  • Tulpa Doom||

    The unprofitability of unreasonable hiring decisions can be exaggerated. Look at all the hoops applicants have to jump through in the hiring process for a "real job" that have nothing to do with performance on the job itself.

    When someone explains to me how dressing up in uncomfortable, impractical suits and picking the proper color for the tie is a predictor of ability to do a job for which you dress casually and sit in a cubicle all day, I'll agree with you.

  • nicole||

    Signalling, baby, signalling. Bullshit of course, but it's almost certainly the answer.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    dressing up in uncomfortable, impractical suits

    If you think a business suit is uncomfortable, it's because your tailor sucks.

    And please tell me you don't buy off-the-rack...at least tell me you wear made-to-measure, if not bespoke.

  • nicole||

    I never understand the "nice clothes are uncomfs" thing. I mean, I'm sitting here in jeans and a sweater, but I love stuff with structure. As Liz Lemon says, sometimes a lady likes to keep her blazer on.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Indeed. How can anyone pass up a chance to look like Prof. Badass?

    Glen plaid, though is a tier 2 suit. Every man should have, at least, a navy blue suit. Add a charcoal and a tan suit and that makes up the tier 1 suits that every man should own. Afterwards, they may add a seersucker, a tweed.

  • nicole||

    Now drooling over Paul Stuart. Want all of the things.

  • nicole||

    Seriously though, HM, do you know of good bespoke options that are not astronomically expensive? For men I mean. Because I know someone who agrees with you wholeheartedly, but it's never seemed wise to go with the cheaper options now available on the innertubez.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Seriously though, HM, do you know of good bespoke options that are not astronomically expensive?

    Well, my grandfather and father were master tailors, so that's where I got my bespoke. Now, I do all my stuff overseas in Asia now. I can recommend Rajawongse as I have personally been there, so I would trust them to do an internet purchase.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Oh and I've heard good things about Thick as Thieves.

  • nicole||

    Seriously, thank you so much. We have been looking literally for years, but never knew someone who had done it that we could trust.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    You're welcome.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    HM- any recommendations of the traveling hotel types?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    HM- any recommendations of the traveling hotel types?

    I know some folks who got stuff from Joe Hemrajani and they seemed pleased with it, but I have never had stuff made by him myself.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Much appreciated!

  • Tulpa Doom||

    I interviewed for my current gig wearing a $12 suit jacket I found at Salvation Army thrift store which just happened to fit me, plus an almost-matching suit pant from JC Penney. To date that is the only suit I own.

    You're saying every man should own 3 different suits? Screw that. Not all of us are made of money.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    You're saying every man should own 3 different suits? Screw that. Not all of us are made of money.

    You don't have to buy all 3 suits at once! A good suit should last 30 years, as long as you choose a timeless style and you keep the same physique.

    Building a wardrobe is a gradual process.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Kilts. Kilts are the smartest option when interviewing. Nothing says "I fucking dare you to hire me" quite so well.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    There's one guy at my company who wears kilts everyday. He also has a massive beard that looks like Hanks in Castaway. It's a bit out there for a software company.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tulpa Doom,

    The unprofitability of unreasonable hiring decisions can be exaggerated.

    Unless the business goes under. Right? RIGHT?

    Look at all the hoops applicants have to jump through in the hiring process for a "real job" that have nothing to do with performance on the job itself.

    Oh, you're breaking my beating little heart.

    When someone explains to me how dressing up in uncomfortable, impractical suits and picking the proper color for the tie is a predictor of ability to do a job for which you dress casually and sit in a cubicle all day, I'll agree with you.

    It would show me that you're not taking the job too casually.

    I wouldn't hire you if you came in wearing a Hawaiian, shorts and flip-flops. Wouldn't matter your red Ferrari, one bit.

  • hotsy totsy||

    If you're not going to wear a suit to a job interview, when the hell would you wear it?

    There's something a bit narcissistic about people who have to dress "comfortably" at all times. Just being in a job interview should make you uncomfortable. It's a challenge that you are supposed to be rising to.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Just being in a job interview should make you uncomfortable.

    Sounds like you need better self esteem.

  • Ayn Random Variation||

    ""It’s hard to sometimes just keep on saying and what you’re saying isn’t true," the president said."

    He finally admitted he's full of shit!

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony,

    And there wouldn't need to be interjections of antidiscrimination rules if there didn't exist workplace discrimination to an extent such that merely being a woman or minority makes you disadvantaged in society

    "Begging the question, sir, may I?"

    The problem is that the only way to "prove" discrimination is to look at the racial or gender makeup of a company and correlate with population sizes - hence, quotas. You cannot prove discrimination otherwise, unless you can presume to read minds.

    If you are born with a competitive disadvantage then there are two possible responses: tough shit, take it up with Darwin, or mandating a system that works more as it's claimed to.

    Pretty much saying: You want to make people virtuous, by force if necessary. Paradise on Earth.

    Egalitarianism as an end in itself. QED.

    By the way, who gets to judge what is a "competitive disadvantage"? What does that entail, Tony? Your diatribes suggest you would be the very person that would shoot Harrison Bergeron.

  • YinxDoo||

    Seems like a pretty solid plan to me man.

    www.EasyPrivacy.tk

  • OldMexican||

    Oh, and last, Tony:

    NOBODY IS ENTITLED TO A JOB!

    Not you, not me, not anybody. Your fairness argument rests on this fallacy, so your argument for fairness is equally fallacious.

  • T o n y||

    Didn't say that. I said people are entitled not to be discriminated against on the basis of sex. Like the US Constitution.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Dumbass, the U.S. constitution forbids the government to discriminate. Try as the corporatist right and progressive left might, businesses are not an arm of the state.

  • ThatSkepticGuy||

    Is there a Master List of debate excuses anywhere?

    So far I've come across:

    Altitude
    Not enough caffeine
    Jim Lehrer
    Was bullied by Romney
    Preoccupied by wedding anniversary
    Actually secretly WON the debate, by staying silent and letting Romney BS
    Four minutes more than opponent was "not enough time"
    John Kerry's fault
    Corporate Media's fault
    Played it cool cuz FOX made everyone think he was an "angry black man"
    Too polite

  • Pro Libertate||

    Reality is racist?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Was depressed after he saw his mom's porn pics.

  • OldMexican||

    I would be depressed if I saw *his* mom's porn pics. I would probably choose hemlock over debating Romney, but the later comes close enough to self-immolation.

  • Rufus J. Firefly||

    Tony, as a business owner all I can say is,

    W.T.F?

    On what planet on you on to think laws are stacked in favor or employers and land owners? You'd love Quebec. The comrades would love you here.

    Your side has managed to push things way the other side now.

    I pay almost 20% up front on payroll taxes to "social costs" and vague idiotic concepts progressives arbitrarily come up with. Know how that hurts my ability to grow, Tony?

    /slaps him off the side of the head.

  • Rufus J. Firefly||

    should read 'on what planet are you on.'

  • Ken Shultz||

    Tony is impervious to logic.

  • ||

    I don't think he has it in him. When he's not being properly teleprompted, I bet he's a total wallflower.

    He's a mass murdering serial killer. He openly admits he has a hit list of who he will order hits on.

    Mean and nasty is possible, if he quits trying to hide what he's actually like.

  • Sevo||

    T o n y| 10.10.12 @ 5:40PM |#
    "There are plenty of data showing discrimination against women in hiring and wages for exactly equivalent work."
    No, shithead, there are no data showing that.

    "But as always the anecdotal universe inside your head trumps data."
    But, as always, shithead claims the high moral ground. I hope you get fucked the a rusty shovel, shithead; you deserve nothing other.

  • Proprietist||

    Paglia obliterates the Democratic Party and Obama, ditches for Green Party, praises Mark Levin and the Right-wing critics of the police state over the Left, blasts the idea that government can spend its way out of recession. Good stuff...

    http://www.salon.com/2012/10/1.....ng_images/

  • YinxDoo||

    lol thats pretty funny when you think about it.

    www.Total-Privacy.tk

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