"How would Americans feel if films insulting the pope or Abraham Lincoln were produced?" - Zawahiri

Mohamed al-Zawahiri, brother of al Qaeda chief Ayman al-Zawahiri, says he called a "peaceful protest" in Cairo as part of the 9/11 anniversary attacks on U.S. embassies that left the U.S. ambassador to Libya dead and the U.S. embassy in Egypt in shambles. 

The putative cause of the attack in Cairo was anger over a satirical movie depicting the founder of Islam's life. The attacks in the adjacent North African countries, both of which last year saw secular autocrats toppled, came on a day commemorating the Zawahiri family's direct role in coordinated terror attacks that killed more than 3,000 people from more than 60 nations. 

"We were surprised to see the big numbers show up, including the soccer Ultra fans," al-Zawahiri tells CNN's David Ariosto. "I just want to say, how would the Americans feel if films insulting leading Christian figures like the pope or historical figures like Abraham Lincoln were produced?"

I believe the Catholic League's Bill Donohue can come up with a movie or two that made fun of the pope and the papacy. I don't think the Vatican gets a very fair shake in The Godfather III. (I also don't recall Donohue, though he has a sharp tongue, ever calling for violence against detractors of the Catholic faith.) As for Abraham Lincoln, the "Savage Curtain" episode of Star Trek certainly qualifies as an unintentional insult, Gore Vidal's Lincoln was adapted for the small screen without incident, and there was a movie out this summer called Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter, which didn't look to be traditionally reverent. Scabrous literature about the parental legitimacy and sexual behavior of Jesus H. Christ has been circulated since the earliest days of Christianity, and as far back as the 19th century anti-Christian writers like Léo Taxil were producing popular sellers in Europe. 

But there is no real point in rebutting Zawahiri's stated claims about a movie. I'm not even sure the movie Innocence of Muslims exists, given that producer Sam Bacile told the Wall Street Journal it had a budget of $5 million, and that doesn't match up with the production value in Bacile's trailer. (Bacile's "100 Jewish donors" seem to be the real victims here.) 

The purpose of the attacks in Egypt and Libya was for the Sunni leadership to show it can unleash mob attacks against American diplomatic assets. (There may be some historical exceptions, but it's more or less axiomatic than mob attacks cannot happen without government approval.) That point has been received by everybody except U.S. State Department employees

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  • sarcasmic||

    firstianth!

  • Rich||

    The purpose of the attacks in Egypt and Libya was for the Sunni leadership to show it can unleash mob attacks against American diplomatic assets.

    This.

  • WTF||

    The purpose of the attacks in Egypt and Libya was for the Sunni leadership to show it can unleash mob attacks against American diplomatic assets. (There may be some historical exceptions, but it's more or less axiomatic than mob attacks cannot happen without government approval.)

    Why do they feel so safe about committing an act of war against the U.S.?

  • ||

    Because they're fucking retarded. When their stupid shit provokes the federal titan into a full-scale deployment for war, they'll be claiming it isn't their fault.

  • WTF||

    Yeah, I seriously don't get it. They push and push, mistaking our forbearance for weakness, and then when they go too far and we unleash the military on them they try to play the victim.

    I somethimes think it would be better to just hit them with immediate, disproportionate retaliation to nip this shit in the bud and avoid worse destruction down the road.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    yep, people in a shitty situation where violence is always the answer will learn to be peaceful if we just level just one of there cities.

  • WTF||

    So, you're saying they don't understand retaliation as a consequence of their actions?

  • Ptah-Hotep||

    So, you're saying they don't understand retaliation as a consequence of their actions?

    No, they think the conseqence will be verbiage and nothing else. And they are probably right.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    yep, Iraq and afghanistan proved that we never retaliate.

  • Ptah-Hotep||

    WTF| 9.12.12 @ 9:26AM |#

    Well yeah, since we generally don't retaliate for their attacks against us until they finally go too far, I'm sure they don't understand why we are hitting back for the latest offense when we didn't for the ten previous ones.

    I did not say we never retaliate, I am saying we are normally very restrained.

    Not sure what Iraq was retaliation for, you?

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    you seem to be arguing that we don't ever act properly (by attacking). Restraint and moderation should be virtues, but are being argued as weaknesses. Afghanistan and Iraq were debacles in retaliation (come on, Iraq was retaliation for Saddam supporting terrorism and tweeking the US's nose around sanctions).

  • Ptah-Hotep||

    you seem to be arguing that we don't ever act properly (by attacking).

    Not arguing that at all. I have no problem with us going after the people responsible for 9/11, even if that meant taking down the government harboring them. I also have no problem with the way OBL was taken out. Nation building is not something we should be doing in Af though.

    Iraq was a vanity war, IMO. We had no reason to go into Iraq. So what if they "tweeked our noses."

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    oh they understand the retaliation and understand they must retaliate for it. See Israel vs. Gaza.

    Ideally we could surgically remove the cancerous individuals, but that remains impossible. The only real solutions are to give up and get out or just eradicate them all.

  • Alan||

    The problem, of course, is blowback.

    Kill enough innocent people, and other innocent people stop trusting you - and most Muslims really are peace-loving people.

    As for insults about Abraham Lincoln and the Papacy ... bring them on.

  • Gray Ghost||

    They may not learn to be peaceful in general, L_I_T, but they might learn to be peaceful to us.

    Libya's fucked-up enough that, contra Cavanaugh's point about mob attacks happening only with government approval might not apply here.

    No such excuse for Egypt, of course. I think we can find better uses with which to put 1.5 billion USD/Yr. Let the Israelis and Egyptians get back to killing each other, if that's what the money was trying to prevent.

  • Gray Ghost||

    Bah, I need to learn to use preview.

    As I put in one of the other threads dealing with this event, we've spent a lot of money and time over the last 11 years, developing a clandestine intelligence and covert action apparatus. Might be time to let them earn their pay in Libya. Try them if you can, but we'll probably just end up killing them. (and about 20 other hapless people standing around them.)

  • thom||

    Or the government could just pull its assets out of their shitty countries, tell American citizens and corps that they're on their own, and proceed with a policy of ignoring these people. They don't produce anything we absolutely need to get from them and they have no interest in playing nice, so fuck em.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    yeah, egypt and lybia have never produced anything that we ever use on a daily basis....

  • thom||

    The USA gets under a quarter of its oil from Africa and the Persian Gulf. We could walk away. Regardless, I'm guessing that even if the USA shuts down its embassies in these countries they still manage a way to export oil.

  • thom||

    Not to mention that the bulk of our African and Persian Gulf oil comes from countries like Saudi Arabia and Nigeria.

  • JohnD||

    If you are implying we get oil from them, you are woefully ignorant. Egypt has no oil, We don't buy oil from Lybia.
    Duh!

  • ||

    Also: As long as Libya is selling oil to someone, it doesn't really matter if we a buy directly from them. It only matters if they stop selling oil to everyone.

  • MWG||

    Meh... It's a question of 'who started it?'. If you ask the average American it goes back to 9/11... if you ask the average Islamist or Muslim it might go back to the crusades.

  • Alan||

    It actually goes back before the Crusades, to the Islamic wars of conquest - but it goes back even further than that, too, to persecution of the Monophysite Christians by the Orthodox church.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g

  • R C Dean||

    Why do they feel so safe about committing an act of war against the U.S.?

    Why wouldn't they, as long as Obama and Hillary are in charge?

    Seriously, issue flamethrowers to the Marine detachments in our embassies. Have the Marines give a little demonstration, err, training exercise.

    If you've never seen a flamethrower in action (I have), you have no idea how fucking terrifying they are. After that demonstration, I guarantee no more mob assaults on our embassies.

  • Gray Ghost||

    The Nimitz museum in Fredericksburg, Texas, puts on a Pacific War re-enactment every few months or so. I want to say I remember one of the highlights of the atoll invasion re-enactment being their firing off the flamethrower. 'Click'-WHOOSH!. I might be confusing a flamethrower with the show's pyrotechnics and/or something I watched on T.V. though.

    (I do remember the noise being nowhere near as loud as either the tanks, or the 12 gauge that the sergeant was gleefully firing. The heat waves were memorable though.)

    Nevertheless, all that would do, is ensure that the bad guys would pack the demonstration with women and children, and send them at the embassy first.

    You can't let this shit stand. Well, I mean, we have in the past, and I don't think it turned out well.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    what should we do? shoot the women and children first? nuke the city shortly thereafter. you're sure short on policy suggestions...

  • Gray Ghost||

    My policy suggestion is that the United States identify who was behind the Libyan embassy attack and burning. Publicly. Then attempt to apprehend them for trial, or, if that's impractical---and it will be---kill them. Probably with a missile fired from a drone.

    For Egypt, demand an explanation from the Egyptian government as to why their security forces basically stood by and watched this happen. When their explanation comes out at dog-eating-homework level of plausibility, withdraw our aid and withdraw our embassy. Kick out their embassy from the U.S. Call it even.

    For future embassy assaults, call for help from the host nation. When it doesn't come, capture the first guy if possible and arrest him until the host nation police shows up. If a mob, shoot the first guy over the wall. Keep shooting. We've a carrier around there somewhere. Bring its aircraft by. Tell the host nation we're bringing them by and they really ought to do something to stop the riot, or we'll consider it an act of war. Proceed from there.

  • Ptah-Hotep||

    I like.

  • hotsy totsy||

    Me too

  • Alan||

    That's about right. Better than either doing nothing or exterminating everyone.

  • JohnD||

    sounds reasonable to me

  • JohnD||

    You really are a moron, aren't you?
    You shoot anyone ... ANYONE.. coming over the wall. Better yet, use the flame thrower, like someone else suggested. .
    Got it, moron?

  • JohnD||

    This was meant for "lost in Trans"

  • Cavpitalist||

    Why wouldn't they, as long as Obama and Hillary are in charge?

    Because they've proven to be vicious warmongers?

  • Invisible Finger||

    Why do they feel so safe about committing an act of war against the U.S.?

    Because the US wants to fight on too many fronts?

    Safety is the very heart of mob action. People feel safe in an angry mob as the mob is usually not the target. All the post-game sports riots usually injure a handful of innocent bystanders (aka not part of the mob) or a specific target and maybe .01% of the mob actually gets hurt or arrested.

    Even if the mob is dispersed, few ever actually suffer any consequences be the injuries or arrest.

  • John||

    SARAH PALIN: “Apparently President Obama can’t see Egypt and Libya from his house.”

  • Restoras||

    373 nations? Did every one split into north and south?

  • Tim Cavanaugh||

    D'oh. That's 373 foreign nationals from 61 countries. Thanks.

  • John||

    But I thought the Islamists only hated us because we are over there? This shows what bunk that is. They hate us because our culture is a direct threat to them. They know that most of the people in these countries would live a quiet Western style life if they had the opportunity. They blame us for that. As long as we live our lifestyle and that culture and lifestyle infiltrates where they are, they are going to hate our guts.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Before you get too critical, remember that American culture produced Sandra Fluke.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Also, Twilight and the Kardashians.

  • Restoras||

    I don't think American culture produced Sandra Fluke. Rather, I think she is a product of traditional, statist ideologies imported from Europe.

    Now this, on the other hand, is a product of American culture we can all be proud.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    what john forgot to say is that the solution to all this is to bomb them, invade them and set up a government so that we can teach them the error of their ways...right john.

  • Randian||

    Don't call it colonialism, LIT. DON'T YOU DARE

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    god forbid, those countries are shitholes, though I might be open to establishing some penal colonies.

  • John||

    That is right Randian, nothing says colonialism like a sovereign government that is free to ask us to leave. You are not a stupid person. But you let your prejudices make you full on retard on this issue. By your definition, the occupation of Germany was "Colonialism!" You are just amazingly stupid on anything relating to the war.

  • Randian||

    *eyeroll*

    Whatever you say, John.

  • John||

    Roll your eyes all you want. Did we not invade and occupy Germany? Did they not get a sovereign government until we decided to grant them on in the 1950s?

    That is exactly what happened in Iraq. And exactly what you call colonialism. So by your definition the occupation of post war Germany was colonialism, and that of course is patently ridiculous as are your views on this.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    your strawman is on fire. would you like another?

  • John||

    It is not a straw man LIT. Randian claims that the US occupation of Iraq was colonialism because Iraq didn't get a sovereign government until we agreed for them to have one. First, that is not true. But even if it is, Germany was also invaded and occupied and didn't get a sovereign government until its occupiers agreed to give it one. So, doesn't that the occupation of post war Germany was "colonialism" by Randian's definition?

    Sure looks that way to me. Stop yelling "Strawman" and make an argument. You people do lose arguments occasionally. And it is possible for the other side to have a point.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    if we had gone into Iraq in the Gulf War, I'd agree, but we agressively attacked a country to set up a puppet government that allowed us to have preferential treatment. That a vague threat was presumed doesn't change what it actually was. If Iraq presumed to join Iran in an alliance, you can be sure that we would feel "threatened" again in short order.

  • hotsy totsy||

    Also see the Occupation of Japan. One important difference in setting up a sovereign government was the condition that there be freedom of religion.

    Didn't happen in Iraq.

  • John||

    No my solution is to kill them. What is yours? Let them kill our diplomats? Give in to their demands and punish the makers of this movie? If we locked up Terry Jones and everyone like him, I bet they would leave us alone. How does that sound?

  • Randian||

    Then why can't we leave Afghanistan again?

  • John||

    What does Afghanistan have to do with Egypt?

  • JohnD||

    Screw the nation building. Bomb them back to the freaking stone age. Wait... they wouldn't know the difference.

  • Randian||

    his shows what bunk that is. They hate us because our culture is a direct threat to them.

    How is this proof of that?

  • John||

    Why did they attack the embassy? Because some American made a movie that questioned the historicity of Muhammad. That is our culture. That is what we do. We question thing and people are free do such things. They exist in a culture like that because they can't answer rational arguments and they can only get people to adopt their way through fear or ignorance. So it doesn't matter what we are or are not doing over there. The world is not connected. What people are doing in America or other places is a direct threat to their entire existence. As long as people are free to make movies, question Muhammad, produce culture that is loathsome to religious fanatics but appealing to the masses, they are going to hate our guts and feel us to be a existential threat. No amount genuflecting and apologies on our part is going to change that.

    The only thing that could change that is letting them run our culture so that nothing we do ever offends them.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    just fly over to Lybia for us and start killing clerics for god's sake.

  • Proprietist||

    It's cyclical. Muslims originally became radicalized by decades of military interference in their affairs. Turning this annger into a religious and cultural crusade gave them a moral basis for their actions.

  • Robert S||

    Yeah you stupid fuck, this struggle between the West and the Islamic world is "decades" old.

  • Lisa||

    "It's cyclical." Nobody who says this crap knows what they're talking about. Fact.

  • Calidissident||

    Of course there has to only be one explanation for anything John. It is utterly impossible that there is more than one motivation behind a large group of people. Absolutely absurd to suggest that. And of course, dictatorships like Russia and China never have to worry about Islamic terrorism, despite occupying Muslim territories. It's all about our freedom!

  • Chris Mallory||

    They can only damage us if we are over there or if we let them come over here. Otherwise they are a bunch of 3rd world savages squatting in their own filth.

  • ant1sthenes||

    I remember when the Pope put a fatwa on Kevin Smith. Dark days. Is he still in exile in Pakistan?

  • Restoras||

    Dogma is one excellent movie.

  • aelhues||

    Excellent, even to many Christians, who have a sense of humor. I loved Alanis, as God!

  • WWNGD?||

    Only because she didn't speak.

    "Holy bartender... I get it."

  • Randian||

    Dogma is one excellent movie.

    *facepalm*

  • WTF||

    And remember all the Christian riots and killings over 'Piss Christ'? Yeah, me neither.

  • Brandybuck||

    I was working in a bookstore when both the book "Satanic Verses" and the movie "The Last Temptation of Christ" were out. The difference between Muslims and Christians: Some grizzle-beard with a turban put a fatwa on us. Cat "Peace Train" Stevens heartily endorsed the fatwa. Muslims around the world rioted. We were one of only two bookstores in San Diego who dared sell the book.

    In the meantime there was a small peaceful protest by Christians in front of a movie theater. No one was afraid to enter the theater.

  • KDN||

    Seriously. What a stupid comparison. Americans mock and insult our own historical figures constantly. Has this guy never seen any cartoon made in the past 70 years?

  • WTF||

    Cartoons are probably 'haram', so I would guess not.

  • The Renegade||

    "No ticket."

  • Drake||

    Nice straw man there, Zawahiri. I know I would run screaming at the closest embassy of the country in which the film was made. Then kill a few people who had nothing to do with the film (and probably no knowledge of it's existence before I started screaming).

    It's the only way they will learn to respect my childish paranoia and crazy superstitions.

  • Pro Libertate||

    If it will keep the peace, we should agree to allow the production of a porn film about Abe Lincoln. It'll be hard not to attack an embassy over it, but we will be strong in the interest of equity and world peace.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    Pro...given the breadth of porn...much like the Simpsons...its probably already been done.

  • The Renegade||

    If I weren't at work....

  • Pro Libertate||

    Precisely. We can impress them with our ability to anticipate their needs.

  • Mensan||

    I don't know about Lincoln, but it's definitely been done with Washington and other presidents (no nudity, but probably NSFW).

  • Gray Ghost||

    Close enough, ProL? (I know I saw the original link to this here.)

  • Cavpitalist||

    4 Whores, and Seven Beers to Go

  • aelhues||

    It's called an excuse.

    His justification is hillarious though. As if there haven't been multitudes of movies/TV shows/books/cartoons/speeches/// that make fun of various American and Christian, ideals/beliefs/saints///. Many of those projects were even given US tax money...

  • Pro Libertate||

    There have to be hundreds of things they could trump up to justify this. It smells of something planned, not spontaneous.

  • John||

    Let's take Zawahiri at his word. Fine, this is the new standard of behavior. Then I guess he will understand when a mob of Americans burns down the first Mosque where the Imam calls Christians and Jews monkeys.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    burn down? who do you think we are, animals...gun them down in a swat raid.

  • Bean Counter||

    There's a reason everybody lets Wookies win and nobody cares what a droid thinks - A droid won't rip your arms off and beat you to death with it.

  • John||

    There was a time when we were the people who ripped people's arms off.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    (wistful sigh)

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    I just want to say, how would the Americans feel if films insulting leading Christian figures like the pope or historical figures like Abraham Lincoln were produced?

    I'd probably feel like not watching something that insulted something I cared about. I'd probably not feel like murdering someone not even responsible for it and then carting his body around like a trophy.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    you must be one of those faggots that accepts uppity women too...

  • Drake||

    Working up a murder-rage and dealing with pushy broads do both involve a lot more effort and energy than changing the channel and pretending not to hear.

  • Bean Counter||

    It must be hard trusting your life and your eternal destiny to a god who can't even defend himself, but has to depend on illiterate mobs to avenge insults. At least the Bible has stories CLAIMING that Yahweh Himself did his own dirty work from time to time. Apparently, Allah is only fierce if somebody else is holding the sword.

  • KDN||

    Allah : Muhammad :: Kuato : George.

    The Quran makes complete sense now.

  • Zombie Jimbo||

    Was Abe Lincoln- Vampire Hunter, insulting? I read the book (someone left it at the pool) but didn't see the movie.

    Dogma was extremely insulting to my religion, but also hilarious.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    it was so poorly produced and acted, I'm sure Abe would have been horrified...

  • ||

    how would the Americans feel if films insulting leading Christian figures like the pope or historical figures like Abraham Lincoln were produced?

    I would have a huge amount of trouble coming up with two shits to give. Same would apply for anti-Duran Duran or anti-Minnesota Vikings films, and I have loved both of those things since I was knee high to an imam.

  • ||

    And who really gives a damn for a flaky bandit?

  • Mensan||

    I've been a fan of Durand-Durand ever since I discovered when I was 13-years old that Barbarella was rated PG, and I could rent it from the video store without getting my parents to rent it for me.

  • Greg Gauthier||

    And the drum beat goes on... :(

  • ||

    "I just want to say, how would the Americans feel if films insulting leading Christian figures like the pope or historical figures like Abraham Lincoln were produced?"

    ----------------

    I've officially and utterly excluded this son of a bitch and his disciples from consideration as members of the human species. Choke in a pool of your own shit.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    so what, martians now?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    One thing that they don't understand in the Middle East is that mainstream American culture is not an "honor culture," thusly, we don't have the cultural pressure to defend our "honor" against every slight, real or imagined.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    of course when we show up and start killing people, they get mighty confused...

  • WTF||

    Well yeah, since we generally don't retaliate for their attacks against us until they finally go too far, I'm sure they don't understand why we are hitting back for the latest offense when we didn't for the ten previous ones.

  • aelhues||

    So in other words, they react to the slightest provocation, like children, and wouldn't understand the concept of restraint? Yeah, that sounds about right.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    yep, invasion is required. or maybe just some CIA covert assasinations. Then...finally...they'll understand and refraim.

  • Ptah-Hotep||

    yep, invasion is required. or maybe just some CIA covert assasinations.

    Nope, just have the Embassy Guards do their job. Kill anyone who attempts to harm our people. They will get the message not to mess with our stuff and people.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    Really...really!!!! You think that the embassy just let them walk in and kill our people. Are you the world's biggest moron or just play one on the internet?

  • Ptah-Hotep||

    Really...really!!!! You think that the embassy just let them walk in and kill our people. Are you the world's biggest moron or just play one on the internet?

    Then you explain to me how they did it? If our troops were not staffed and equipped at the level to protect our embassy our leaders are idiots. How heavily armed were the attackers again?

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    you read one article about an attack on an embassy and you assume Obama set up the diplomats to be killed by a disorganized mob? WTF man, WTF. I'm sure the guards took out a few protesters themselves when they were being attacked. You tend to defend yourself with whatever means necessary. Its not like these guards were armed with wiffle bats.

  • Ptah-Hotep||

    you read one article about an attack on an embassy and you assume Obama set up the diplomats to be killed by a disorganized mob?

    No, I read an article that says a mob came over our embassy wall, tore down our flag and put up another one. And an article that says our Ambassador was killed along with staff members. I did not read anything about the attackers being killed. They may have been. I hope they killed scores of them, but I doubt it or it would have been reported.

    You tend to defend yourself with whatever means necessary.

    Yes, and our embassy should have been staffed and equipped with enough firepower to kill every asshole who came over the wall. It is not like we did not know these places are dangerous and shit.

    Just to be clear, I am not blaming our people for the actions of stone-age barbarians. I just wish our folks would have been able to send all those fuckers to see allah. The people who should have protected our embassies should also be held to account as well.

  • WTF||

    I don't know, LIT, but I would likely refrain from punching Junior Dos Santos in the face because he would likely beat the fuck out of me in return. So fear of retaliation does affect human actions.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    Or maybe he would refrain and you would merely be charged with assault. Now, if instead of punching you, he came by three days later and shot you, would you accept that was an appropriate response?

  • Rich||

    "How would Americans feel if films insulting the pope or Abraham Lincoln were produced?"

    By golly, let's take a poll and find out!

  • aelhues||

    We might protest by refusing to spend money on the films, instead pirating them to watch for free?

  • BarryD||

    Uh, Americans aren't a bunch of stone-age throwbacks who get all butt-hurt if someone questions the divine nature of our icons.

    And the Pope? Hell, a good portion of Americans have a lower opinion of the Pope and his baby-raping piece of shit "church" than we do of Mohammed, that's for certain.

  • Spartacus||

    They *should* be angry about being ruled by Turks and Mongols for 1000 years. I guess they just didn't have the balls to riot on Tamerlane.

  • Zeb||

    The American response to this is disgusting. All they should say is something like "In the US there is freedom of speech and of the press. As such the US government takes no position on any speech by a private citizen."

  • Mike M.||

    "Don't call us violent animals or we'll cut your head off!"

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    The sons of the Prophet are brave men and bold And quite unaccustomed to fear, But the bravest by far in the ranks of the Shah, Was Abdul Abulbul Amir.
    If you wanted a man to encourage the van, Or harass the foe from the rear, Storm fort or redoubt, you had only to shout For Abdul Abulbul Amir.
    Now the heroes were plenty and well known to fame In the troops that were led by the Czar, And the bravest of these was a man by the name Of Ivan Skavinsky Skavar.
    One day this bold Russian, he shouldered his gun And donned his most truculent sneer, Downtown he did go where he trod on the toe Of Abdul Abulbul Amir.
    Young man, quoth Abdul, has life grown so dull That you wish to end your career? Vile infidel, know, you have trod on the toe Of Abdul Abulbul Amir.
    So take your last look at the sunshine and brook And send your regrets to the Czar For by this I imply, you are going to die, Count Ivan Skavinsky Skavar.
    Then this bold Mameluke drew his trusty skibouk, Singing, "Allah! Il Allah! Al-lah!" And with murderous intent he ferociously went For Ivan Skavinsky Skavar.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    They parried and thrust, they side-stepped and cussed, Of blood they spilled a great part; The philologist blokes, who seldom crack jokes, Say that hash was first made on the spot.
    They fought all that night neath the pale yellow moon; The din, it was heard from afar, And huge multitudes came, so great was the fame, Of Abdul and Ivan Skavar.
    As Abdul's long knife was extracting the life, In fact he was shouting, "Huzzah!" He felt himself struck by that wily Calmuck, Count Ivan Skavinsky Skavar.
    The Sultan drove by in his red-breasted fly, Expecting the victor to cheer, But he only drew nigh to hear the last sigh, Of Abdul Abulbul Amir.
    There's a tomb rises up where the Blue Danube rolls, And graved there in characters clear, Is, "Stranger, when passing, oh pray for the soul Of Abdul Abulbul Amir."
    A splash in the Black Sea one dark moonless night Caused ripples to spread wide and far, It was made by a sack fitting close to the back, Of Ivan Skavinsky Skavar.
    A Muscovite maiden her lone vigil keeps, 'Neath the light of the cold northern star, And the name that she murmurs in vain as she weeps, Is Ivan Skavinsky Skavar.

  • R C Dean||

    how would the Americans feel if films insulting leading Christian figures like the pope or historical figures like Abraham Lincoln were produced

    I'll go with bored and apathetic.

  • Lost_In_Translation||

    or too busy riding our jetskis to give a fuck....wheee benefits of a capitalism and free society.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    "How would Americans feel if films insulting the pope or Abraham Lincoln were produced?" - Zawahiri

    We would no doubt thwow him to the fwoor and stwike him vewy woughly, centuwion!

  • Dr. Frankenstein||

    "How would Americans feel if films insulting the pope or Abraham Lincoln were produced?" - Zawahiri

    Lew Rockwell would be happy to oblige. In fact I'm sure Lincoln is the object of the daily two minutes of hate there.

  • Invisible Finger||

    "How would Americans feel if films insulting the pope or Abraham Lincoln were produced?" - Zawahiri

    Personally, I would feel like a mature adult: I wouldn't give a shit.

    I'd bet there is already some gay Abe-On-Pope porn out there already.

  • Lisa||

    If Muslims made films insulting Abe or the Pope, we would say that we deserved it for having the nerve to build embassies and consulates in other countries.

  • macsnafu||

    I'd be thrilled to see a movie that treats Lincoln like the bad guy he really was. The Pope? I could care less.

  • Gadianton||

    I just want to say, how would the Americans feel if films insulting leading Christian figures like the pope or historical figures like Abraham Lincoln were produced?

    Gee... I guess the media forgot to report on the Mormons rioting outside the theaters where The Book of Mormon was being performed.

  • DavidNJ||

    "The Life of Brian" which was done by the Monty Python cast was certainly a mockery of the story of Christ. There were no riots that resulted. Lincoln was absolutely savaged in his day.

    An issue I have with Tim's analsysis is whether the Libyan government was really strong enough to stop the attacks. It appears they depend on militias for support and some of those militias may be hostile to the U.S. even if the Libyan government didn't support the attack.

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