Non-Liberals Live Amongst Liberals, Deceptively Wearing Their Guises: Noted with Alarm

Eugenia Williamson in the Boston Phoenix in her confused mess of a feature called "Attack of the Hipster Conservatives" is alarmed that not all young people she marks as "hip" are standard modern American liberals.

She is confused about political terminology--she starts off saying "laissez-faire liberal" (which would have to mean libertarian) when she means modern statist liberal, saying that one of her French characters confuses people who expect him to be the former when he reveals he's actually a "conservative libertarian." It's also unclear exactly what that means, except that the author is going to continue to conflate those two (overlapping in some respects, but distinct) categories of conservative and libertarian.

She then gets shocked by "two floppy-haired fellows in skinny jeans and tight plaid shirts [who] were talking about how wrong it was to build a mosque near Ground Zero," a conservative stance (for some) with no libertarianism in it.

The whip-sawing category errors don't stop. Willamson compains that Urban Outfitters is selling (mostly ironic) Mitt Romney t-shirts (the kind-of conservative GOP presidential candidate) and then talks about Vice magazine "characterizing libertarianism as the natural result of disillusionment with the two-party system," then in an article with the word "conservative" in the headline says "in every urban enclave in every blue state contains a small, barely visible contingent of libertarians who move, undetected, in liberal social circles. Undetected, that is, until the veneer of consensus slips away."

The article goes on to interview various people of libertarianish or conservative or pro-Romney beliefs explaining that, in a plaint I'm sure will ring true to any person of free market sympathies in a modern liberal world, they really just prefer not talking about politics with people who they like who like them but who disagree profoundly on political matters. (There could be an actually insightful and perhaps even touching piece of journalism to be written on this topic, but it would require more effort and understanding than Williamson brings to bear.) One of her subjects, Zachery Caceres, identifies as a "progressive libertarian," far from "conservative" of course. (Not to be obtuse, what Williamson clearly is trying to get at is "people who value free markets strongly and probably don't believe in a lot of government wealth redistribution can look or act 'cool' too." But her terminological confusion isn't helping reader comprehension or making any better a case for the idea that this trend story with its usual small handful of examples exemplifies anything coherent or meaningful.) 

And the key statement about all this "politics vs. cultural signifier" theme, from David Benedetti, the tattooed and ear-plugged atheist Ron Paul fan who doesn't want to go to Tea Party gatherings, is: "I'm more comfortable with my friends, period. That definitely trumps any politics."

Williamson then wraps up with a beat that shows she does, or should, understand she's conflating some very different things in her story, when she quotes a liberal pal of Benedetti's saying that if Benedetti

was a social conservative, "that would be a deal-breaker. The fact that he identifies with those people is unattractive enough, but I could not be friends with someone that thinks same-sex couples shouldn't have the right to marry."

My Reason colleague J.D. Tuccille, who once lived in Boston Phoenix territory, remembers that "the Boston-Cambridge yuppie axis more libertarian-friendly than you might expect when I lived there in the early to mid '90s. Libertarian-ish Bill Weld was governor... Harvey Silverglate, the former Mass. ACLU head and still-prominent civil libertarian gave a speech at BU Lawcalling on physicians to refuse medical services to politicians who overregulate medicine. And I distinctly remember a marketing person at ZDNet, who was trying to organize a debate over Internet regulation, screaming in frustration across the office, "Goddamnit. Is anybody here NOT a libertarian?"

What the Phoenix is noting with alarm, confusion, and incomprehension is a real phenomenon, especially in an age when the only national political figure with bona fides about civil liberties, peace, and not locking people up for their consumption choices is an old Republican congressman and presidential candidate of libertarian philosophy, Ron Paul, subject of my new book Ron Paul's Revolution: The Man and the Movement He Inspired.

The existence of Paul and his fans vexes those tied to old liberal/Democratic Party loyalties while the old Republican is better on a wide range of issues of supposed importance to modern liberals than is President Obama.

While issues of the propriety of largely unregulated markets and income redistribution programs will continue to keep many (likely most) progressives from shifting libertarian, Paul's campaign has proven that old prejudices about the supposed social and even intellectual barriers between left and libertarian are shifting in many cases, as much as it pisses off the Suicide Girls.

Those like Williamson and her readers confused by the libertarian/conservative distinction should read, from Reason's July issue, "Fusionism Revisited" in which our own Matt Welch and Nick Gillespie on the libertarian side debate conservative Jonah Goldberg and Ann Coulter.

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  • Caleb Turberville||

    This is an attack on Steigerwald, Walker, and Suderman, isn't it?

  • SIV||

    One of those three is not like the others.

  • ||

    Yeah Walker was a hipster when no one was a hipster...

    Now he is just old.

    I am more interested in breaking down Mike Riggs hipsterness.

    That would be fun.

  • Caleb Turberville||

    Was Stossel ever considered a hipster? Loder? Drew Carey? Something tells me Veronique de Rugy has some hipster skeletons hanging in her closet.

  • ||

    Williamson must be very flexible to have her head stuck so far up her ass.

  • ||

    You mean there are people who aren't on TEAM BLUE but also aren't on TEAM RED!? Unpossible!

  • JW||

    Oh god, LAROUCHIES!

  • ||

    "The fact that he identifies with those people is unattractive enough, but I could not be friends with someone that thinks same-sex couples shouldn't have the right to marry."

    iow, she couldn't be friends with obama.

    noted that at du, DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, moderators have said that people who do not support same sex marriage can have accounts terminated for expressing that belief.

    however, they also say that they exist to support DEMOCRATIC candidates and party holders and what is ironic is that fawning over obama in DU is acceptable, but if obama tried to be a member, he doesn't meet their criteria

    the double standards are pretty amazing

  • John||

    They are tolerent and believe in free expression. Funny how they get stuck on certain things. Fifteen years ago none of those clowns had even thought of gay marriage. And few of them gave a shit about gay rights. Now here we are and gay marriage is the most important issue in the world. That is team politics at its best.

  • Joe R.||

    Yet freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation has been part of the Libertarian Party platform since its formation in 1972--you know, back when Republicrats still thought it was deviant behavior.

  • Rob.||

    So what you are saying is that no blacks are allowed to be commentators at DU?

  • Emmerson Biggins||

    That would be a good troll project.

  • Lord Humungus||

    there's a strange strain of libertarianism in the punk rock circles I used to frequent. It was DIY, fight the system, think for yourself, etc etc mixed with "the government doesn't do enough to help people." and "the big corporations are out to kill us all."

    Dude, help yourself!

  • ||

    My experience with DIY punks was similar...but at the same time they would uncritically espouse socialism as the way to go.

    And i don't mean "Obama is a socialist" kind of socialism...I mean socialism socialism and they would call it socialism.

  • GILMORE||

    Those people are not 'libertarian' in any way. They're punks. They are confused. In one breath, they say, "FUCK THE MAN!!".... then whine that the man doesn't provide better social services.

    Sometimes they have an epiphany when one day they discover that their ideas make no sense.... and it can be a dangerous moment. Depending on the level of Jesus-susceptibility in their lives. They may overnight become doctrinaire republicans or democrats... but most often, they become bible-beating versions of either. i'd say it was sad, and that perhaps they were better off being incoherent and true to their childish selves, but most of the time they genuinely seem happier as jesus-freaks.

  • Brett L||

    " The new conservative archetype is more like Meghan McCain, the right-wing libertarian daughter..."

    Don't put that shit on us.

  • John||

    In Cambridge McCain is a libertarian. That says everything about Cambridge and nothing about McCain.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Hey! I'm a libertarian in Cambridge (sometimes).

  • John||

    To the rest of Cambridge you are not a "libertarian". You are crazy right wing tea bagging nihilist.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    They might think I'm an evil Republican because I have a job that actually pays me well to produce things and even requires my college degrees. Plus I have hunted before.

  • John||

    Tell them you own a gun and they will report you to DHS.

  • ||

    mccain, the guy behind mccain/feingold and who called MMA "human cockfighting" and thinks it should be banned?

    yea, bigtime libertarian!

  • ||

    Not John McCain. Meghan McCain. While I wouldn't call her a libertarian, she's definitely more libertarian than her father.

  • Joe R.||

    If by "more libertarian" you mean "has bigger cans," then I agree.

  • ||

    Why do you want Auric to get droned?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Why do you want Auric to get droned?

    He figured out I'm a Sox fan.

  • John||

    Why do you want Auric to get droned?

    He figured out I'm a Sox fan.

    Fuck you are on to me.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Well the guns I own are in Vermont because Mass is such a pain in the ass on gun ownership/places to shoot. They're so close to the border that I could play it off as defense against Canada. Is that ok, maybe?

  • wareagle||

    and how is Vermont, home of Howard Dean and Bernie Sanders, the home of freedom? I get the topography with regard to hunting, but seems the only thing one could hunt there would be maple syrup.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    and how is Vermont, home of Howard Dean and Bernie Sanders, the home of freedom?

    I never said it was, but it's got the best gun laws in the country (probably world). The hippies who moved into Burlington haven't killed that off yet.

    seems the only thing one could hunt there would be maple syrup.

    I've killed white tail deer and Eastern turkey. There's a ton of other stuff too (moose, black beers, ducks/tons of birds, coyotes, foxes, a bunch of rodent things to ), but I'm not into hunting as much as my parents. There are actually at least 3 different deer seasons (regular, archery, and muzzleloader).

  • wareagle||

    Really? I had no idea. Good for the hunters. Sounds like they are in fertile territory.

  • SIV||

    You used to be able to shoot fish in Vermont but I believe they stopped issuing licenses unless you already had one. The youngest fish shooting licensee was over 70 at the time. You can still legally shoot fish in a couple of SW VA counties last I checked, but not on Sunday.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    What about on your own land? You're allowed to hunt all sorts of crap without a license if it's on your own land...

  • Brett L||

    Well in that case, you must be this guy. Seriously, never, never, never roll up the sleeves of a blazer. Never, ever. If you're hot, remove your jacket.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    The only part of that outfit I might at some point wear is the shirt.

  • Scarcity||

    You must've overlooked the pocket square, AD. If you're wearing a jacket, throw a square in the pocket. Simple white linen is fine, but leaving out the square is only a few steps above wearing a short-sleeve button-up shirt and tie.

    OK, it's a lot of steps above that, but come on! It's so easy and looks much better!

  • Auric Demonocles||

    looks much better

    I think we have different definitions of "better".

  • tarran||

    Suspenders and a belt?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Did you see how skinny he is?

  • Brett L||

    He's going for the "dots his i's and crosses his t's but also is stupid enough to roll up the sleeves on his outergarments rather than removing them when hot" look. I'm sure its all the rage at the free-trade coffee houses he's been interviewing at.

  • Hell's Librarian||

    LOL. He looks like Dr Who.

  • Brandybuck||

    The "libertarians" I know in Cambridge are aghast at the idea that the Federal Government should spend less than it does.

    "You mean the states should have to pay more?!?!"

    [bangs head on wall]

  • John||

    Modern liberalism has degenerated into a giant theft scheme designed to steal from the young and give to the old and those in unions and academia. I would hope that at some point the marks would start to get wise no matter how much the con men sell it as a way to show how smart and tolerant you are.

  • sarcasmic||

    It's one great appeal to emotion.

    Free healthcare feels good, helping to poor feels good, helping the elderly feels good, free college feels good, hating the rich feels good, hating the corporations feels good, being liked by the cool kids feels good...

    Not thinking feels good.

  • John||

    True enough. Think about how badly the young got fucked by all of this. First they gave them student loans that jacked up the price of college and made lefty profs the leisure class and the young indentured servants. Then they gave away cheap housing loans that made the boomers rich on home equity and owning a home impossible for most people under 30. And for the big finish, they are destroying the currency and bankrupting the government so government workers and cronies can retire early and leaving the young with the bill.

  • AuH2O||

    Yeah, and because we don't vote, we are going to get buttfucked on entitlement reform.

    But I would argue that one of the reasons that the young don't vote is because we don't get free money on nearly the same level as the elderly- there also are a lot more politicians who will make an ad of pushing granny off a cliff over threatened cuts to Medicare than a youngster being buried in debt or anything to do with student loan cuts.

    I mean, people always blame the AARP, but I think politicians would still earnestly tell old people, "You paid your whole life for these programs, and my rat bastard opponent wants to take what you paid into your whole life" completely ignoring that this isn't what they get- especially with Medicare, they get more than they paid in.

  • wareagle||

    if you remember, one of the memes of the Occutards was free college, and Obama always talks about "keeping it affordable", as though affordable means free.

    Anyway, the system has had 12 years to indoctrinate folks before they go to finishing school for more of the same. By then, it's 16 years of the state as nanny, your parents as idiots who likely sold out to the man, and if it went well, you teeming with a sense of entitlement.

    Congratulations to you for not having succumbed to that.

  • Keith3D||

    Also, being better than everyone else feels good.

    Yes practicing liberalism is a form of therapy for the liberal, it does nothing for the rest of society (except a bunch of unintended consequences of course if too many people engage in it). Look at the desire to raise taxes for "fairness" even when they agree it hurts the economy. What is the utility? The positive feelings the liberals themselves gain by doing it.

  • John||

    Good point. It is all about "look at me". And when you think about, that explains why so many hipsters are liberals.

  • Your Old TV||

    Liberalism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves... to other people's shit.

  • sticks||

    I never cared for those suicide girls. If they had any balls they'd all be dead right?

  • Lord Humungus||

    I know an ex-Suicide Girl. She's a mom now and real sweetheart, but you would never guess in a million that she posed barefoot all over.

  • John||

    Are they they tattooed and pierced out chicks who pose nude?

  • ||

    They are some of those women. Other such women appear elsewhere.

  • sarcasmic||

    Rule #34 dude, rule #34.

  • Lord Humungus||

    yeah, she does body piercings for a living now. I feel like a Puritan around her (and her multi-tattooed husband)

  • JW||

    I know an ex-Suicide Girl. She's a mom now and real sweetheart, but you would never guess in a million that she posed barefoot all over.

    Volvo Driving Soccer Moms

  • sticks||

    Well what I wanted from the show was live suicides of tattooed chicks. There should be a law against false advertising fo suicides.

  • ||

    The squeeze likes looking at those pics an dating those girls...I think they're nice from an arty point of view (most of them have good lighting and color), but not all that sexy.

  • John||

    I hate tattoos and piercings.

  • ||

    To each his own. I don't like tattoos and piercings on me. I don't mind tattoos on other people (the squeeze has plenty), and most piercings don't bother me.

  • John||

    In small doses I think it is okay. At some point I think it becomes a form of self mutilation and sign of something being deeply fucked up.

  • wareagle||

    it's another form of addiction. How many folks do you know who have stopped with a single tattoo? Once the attention and perhaps the pain from one die out, the need for another screams.

  • Joe R.||

    I have a single tattoo.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Before tats and piercings were popular, I dated a Goth chick who had a few tats and nipple piercings. Back then it was pretty exotic and erotic, but now? Meh - now I see old bag ladies and middle-aged moms with tats.

  • John||

    ^^THIS^^ I do a morning P90X type class at my local Y. Most of the people in the class are upper middle class rich over 30 moms. Nearly all of them have at least one small tattoo. When the soccer mom in the Lexus has one, it is no longer exotic or erotic.

  • Pagan Priestess||

    But are they new tats or old tats? My tat is several years past being able to legally drink. When I got it only sailors and chicks who ran with bikers had tats (both of which conditions were true for me when I got it).
    I show it off to the young idiots as an object lesson. You think your "body art" is cool? Wait until it's a blurry black blob and no one can tell what the hell it was supposed to be any more.

  • T||

    Use sunscreen. I'v got drinking age tats that still look fine.

  • Pagan Priestess||

    Allergic. But wouldn't help even if I wasn't, that tat never sees the sun.

  • John||

    Medium. They are not new. But they don't look horrible either.

  • Apple||

    My dad's tattoo taught me that lesson. It was already 30+ years old when I was a teenager. It was a skull and crossbones at one time. Now, at 76, it looks like he has a blurry, green, incandescent light bulb on his shoulder. Also, when I was a kid my grandfather had a tattoo of a boat with a sail reading "Edna". At this point he hadn't been married to my grandmother Edna for almost 40 years. Another lesson learned.

  • Pagan Priestess||

    Of course some tats are just fail from the moment they're born. My brother-in-law has a drunken self-inflicted tat on his arm. It was supposed to be a coiled snake around a sword in a stone. But the first time I saw it I asked him, "Why do you have a tattoo of an upright vacuum cleaner?"

  • sarcasmic||

    Everything in moderation.

  • John||

    Exactly.

  • ||

    Genital piercings are fucking hot. Anyone who disagrees is clearly a fool of the highest caliber.

  • Pagan Priestess||

    Genital piercings are insane. Aint no way my special happy places are getting stabbed with steel needles.

  • KMA Too||

    Yeah, well, then I'm a .50 Desert Eagle, 'cause "No pointed metal near my junk", please.

  • SIV||

    I hate it when a chick has a tackle box.

  • Longtorso||

    It's probably too late to comment, but I'm going to devote my life to bringing the phrase "tackle box" to the masses.

  • Brandybuck||

    I'm afraid of something getting snagged. Makes braces locked together seem tame in comparison.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Amen.

  • acidovorax||

    I've never looked at a woman and thought "she'd be so much prettier if only she drew some pictures on herself". With that said tattoos on women are a great signal that flashes "I put out".

    It's a love / hate relationship, really.

  • John||

    Women are attractive despite the tattoos not because of them.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Amen again.

  • Sudden||

    One of my wife's friends (also married) just got one. It's one thing to get a small and meaningful tatt somewhere. But when women go with these full stomach/back things, it just looks awful to me.

    However, men can pull it off. Sleeves tend to look badass.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Sleeves tend to look badass

    I actually think the opposite. If you were badass you wouldn't have needed to add anything.

  • Sudden||

    I don't mean badass in that it makes one look like a badass. I just meant they can look fairly cool at times. Ironically, they tend to look good up until you actually begin looking at the various artwork that makes up the sleeve and then realize it's just random crap drawn in such a way as to occupy the most skin possible.

  • Voros McCracken||

    "I've never looked at a woman and thought 'she'd be so much prettier if only she drew some pictures on herself.'"

    That's pretty much my opinion as well.

  • AuH2O||

    Down the road, not across the street kids.

  • Sudden||

    9 out of 10 suicide attempts are by women.

    9 of 10 suicides committed are by men.

    The misogynistic way of looking at that is that women are too stupid to be able to kill themselves. However, the slightly less misogynistic way of viewing that is that women are just "crying out for attention" whereas men mean fucking bidniz.

  • JW||

    Working in the arts has shown me that the artsy-liberal just assumes that everyone around them shares their addled political views.

    It's somewhat understandable, since I occupy that very, very small, almost invisible, slice in the middle of that Venn diagram, but it still amuses the hell out of me. It's like being a double-agent and hearing all the dirty secrets they never tell outside the inner circles.

    I just politely nod my head and smile.

  • John||

    It is a cultural thing. For most of them being liberal and a Democrat is like secular church. It is just what you do.

  • Scarcity||

    Reminds me of my three interminable years as a public school teacher.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Libertarianism is confusing to many.

  • JW||

    Look don't confuse how you confuse people and not how your politics confuse people. M'kay?

  • Lord Humungus||

    it confuses the hell out of my lefty and righty friends.

  • John||

    To the right - Libertarians just want their dope.

    To the left - Libertarians are just conservatives who just wan their dope.

  • sticks||

    I want everyone on dope. Good dope, good fun.

  • John||

    Hippie ;-)

  • sticks||

    Fuck the hippies. The yippies seemed okay, before my time though.

  • John||

    The beats.

  • sticks||

    The beats were a bunch of drunk winos/whiners imo. I've been able to get trough and enjoy yippie art/entertainment. Though not a single beat piece. Maybe one or two poems. Yeah Howl was good.

    /talking out my ass

  • sticks||

    Can you beat Fuck Communism? When postmasters said the post office couldn't deliver obscene material, you call 'em commie sympathizers. FUN!!!

  • gaoxiaen||

    The first couple of lines, anyways.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    The funny thing is that the people around Cambridge think I'm weird because I don't do drugs or smoke.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I think the basic premise - that people would be free to do what they want without harming others - is very counterintuitive if not anathema. "But what they want might include something I feel is wrong."

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Libertarianism is Actual principles are confusing to many.

    FTFY. And at no charge.

  • ||

    Everybody knows that libertarians only wear monocles of gold, jewelry of the finest slave-mined precious metals, and clothing of the smoothest silk and cotton. Top hats and curly mustaches, too. And fully automatic rifles slung across their backs.

  • NoVAHockey||

    I have my entourage carry the rifles. ivory handled pistols for me.

  • ||

    I think that's one of the main reasons statists hate libertarians so. They can't fuck with us because we have guns, and we know how to use them.

    Ivory-handled pistols? If you were any cooler, hell would freeze over, dude.

  • Ska||

    If he were any cooler, he'd be too chilly.

  • Brandybuck||

    I am only moderately armed. I am such a lusertarian.

  • GILMORE||

    Res Publica Americana|7.19.12 @ 3:34PM|#
    Everybody knows that libertarians only wear monocles of gold, jewelry of the finest slave-mined precious metals, and clothing of the smoothest silk and cotton. Top hats and curly mustaches, too. And fully automatic rifles slung across their backs.

    Rifle? Mmm. I find my flamethrower-equipped limousine far more effective when doing drive-by burning-down of Ghettos in order to snap up cheap real estate and flip it to developers. Who needs to waste decent brass on the vermin? I prefer to see them wasting in the streets from famine if they aren't laboring in my diamond mines.

  • ||

    especially in an age when the only national political figure with bona fides about civil liberties, peace, and not locking people up for their consumption choices is an old Republican congressman and presidential candidate of libertarian philosophy, Ron Paul

    Apparently the LP candidate for president, Gary Johnson, doesn't exist in Doherty's world.

  • Brett L||

    He's pushing a Ron Paul book right now, just go with it.

  • Sudden||

    He has a book out?!?!?!?!

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "I could not be friends with someone that thinks same-sex couples shouldn't have the right to marry."

    And this person probably believes that this statement proves him to be caring and tolerant.

  • sarcasmic||

    Well, duh.

    Tolerance means not tolerating anyone who disagrees with you.

    Inclusiveness means excluding anyone who disagrees with you.

    Caring means not tolerating intolerance.

    Equality means people who agree with you are equal, and everyone else is inferior.

  • ||

    unless he's obama. in that case, he gets a pass for being anti-gay marriage, pro DADT etc

  • Ska||

    lololololol

  • Brett L||

    Its interesting to RTFA and see that 1) Bostonian hipsters are liberonormative to a shocking degree and 2)All of the non liberals say things like "my friends are really important to me, so I just don' talk politics" while all the liberals say things like "it makes me really angry that my conservative friend doesn't agree completely with everything I believe."

  • sticks||

    If the friendship is worth a damn you can disagree about politics(quite fun at times) and still maintain the friendship.

  • NoVAHockey||

    it's all about them. their friends are an extension of themselves and no different than any other consumer product. it's not about engaging and learning about a person, but almost like buying an article of clothing. i don't look good in [these pants/standing next to you].

  • sarcasmic||

    In general I have one political conversation with liberals, and then they don't want to talk with me anymore.

  • Sudden||

    Exactly. One of my better friends is a borderline Green Kucinich guy. We both get our kicks badmouthing the teams, but when we get into specific policies, the chasms are large. Still, we respect eachother as people and as thinkers more than we do any TEAM BE RULED constituents.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    I live about a 8 minute walk from a huge center of Boston's hipster scene. I avoid talking politics. That alone annoys some people.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Boston's hipster scene: full of overgrown children living off their parent's money and government subsidies. Probably why the idea of "You didn't build it" took hold.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    One of my friend's brothers live on Beacon Hill. He's in undergrad right now. The average for a studio there is $1600.

  • Scarcity||

    Wow, that Suicide Girls screed is even richer than the subject of the article. She's bitching about being at a lame party and getting into an argument with a Ron Paul supporter who she caused to go "apeshit" because she explained that Ron Paul is a fascist.

    Wait, wha? Hard-core libertarianism = government takeover of private activity?

    Yes, because, she explains, he wouldn't be able to get his policies through Congress so his only option besides selling out his principles would be to "circumnavigate the Courts and the Congress and implement them anyway. In other words, he'd be a dictator. Why else would you run for President on a platform that so few people recognize as cognizant thought?"

    Ah, brilliant. Of course, she also refers to his ideas on privatization as "economic fascism." So at that point it is clear that in her edgy, tatooed little head, fascist == bad, hard stop.

  • John||

    Nothing says fascism like legalizing drugs, ending foreign wars, and cutting the size of the military.

    Love or hate Ron Paul. But calling him a fascist is true weapons grade stupid.

  • ||

    i may disagree with jonah goldberg on a lot, but he is correct that the word fascist , especially as used by liberals, simply means "stuff we don't like"

    it has no relation to the classic/historical definition

  • Scarcity||

    Sort of like the word liberal

  • Scarcity||

    The SG article links to a blog post that summarizes secret underside of the idea that you own yourself and your property thusly: "Well, given that life is property, and one has a human right to own private property…Oops! Slavery. That’s right, Libertarianism is simply the flashy, sexy politically correct new label for the Confederates of the 19th century."

    I wonder what that guy links to? Alas, I can't go any further down the linky rabbit hole, or I may never return.

  • Scarcity||

    At least they think we're flashy and sexy though, right?!

  • SugarFree||

    "Well, given that life is property, and one has a human right to own private property…Oops! Slavery. That’s right, Libertarianism is simply the flashy, sexy politically correct new label for the Confederates of the 19th century."

    Well, fuck-a-duck. She's stupid enough to be a troll here.

  • John||

    Too bad Tony is gay. We would even have her a boyfriend.

  • SugarFree||

    Ah, but is she stupid enough to pretend that coercion and defending yourself from being coerced is the same thing? Because that's what it takes to be a big-league idiot on the H+R circuit.

  • John||

    We will never know. But I think she has got everything it takes to be a first class troll.

  • Scarcity||

    There's still a chance for Tony to find love! That quote (re: slavery) was in a blog post that was linked to from the SG's post. And (I'm not going back to check, I'm retired from crazy today) I think the blog had a pic of a guy at the top.

  • Brett L||

    Maybe she read The Unincorporated Man as being anti-libertarian, so the shares were the libertarians?

  • Ska||

    I would have to beat myself for talking to her, so there is something to her statement.

  • wareagle||

    so she is ignorant of history, too.

  • SugarFree||

    Yeah, she's really knocking it out of the park.

  • The Hammer||

    Did she really say "Circumnavigate?"

  • Timon 19||

    Circumnavigate the Courts?

    Magellan the Courts? What?

  • Brandybuck||

    Maybe she meant circumcise

  • ||

    Her post was weapons grade, Apparently a 'statist' levels of stupid. And that was back in 2007. I bet she's even more bald ass crazy now.

  • ||

    I would probably make her head in explode in that I'm personally very straight-edged (I don't drink very much, I don't smoke pot or use recreational drugs) but believe those things should all be legal and as unrestricted as possbile. I'm also staunchly anti-war and and anti-state in general.

  • John||

    I have that effect on people when they hear my views on drugs and the criminal justice system.

  • ||

    some people have a hard time grokking the libertarian distinction

    believing that govt. should not have the authoritah to interfere with people's choices about (for example) drugs does not mean any particular libertarian does drugs. heck, it's entirely possible to be libertarian and think drugs are a moral evil

    what is key is how one views the role of govt, not how one views the morality of the act

    i don't think drug use is immoral , but there are certainly plenty of acts i believe are profoundly immoral, but should not be within the control of govt.

    liberals tend to lean towards "it's bad, so that's justification to regulate it" for various incarnations of "bad"

  • sarcasmic||

    liberals tend to lean towards "it's bad exists, so that's justification to regulate it"

    ftfy

  • Joe R.||

    heck, it's entirely possible to be libertarian and think drugs are a moral evil

    It's entirely possible to be libertarian and live on a commune.

  • Scarcity||

    When Chicago was debating the smoking ban people had such a hard time understanding my opinion.

    "You don't smoke. Don't you hate smoky restaurants and bars?"
    "Yes. I hate having to immediately wash my hair and every piece of clothing I wear out every weekend and I really wish there were more nonsmoking places to go."
    "So you're for the ban."
    "100% against it."
    And watch them go cross-eyed.

  • ||

    that's me exactly. i LOATHE cigarette smoke, and i benefited when the ban on smoking in bars was passed here.

    but i 100% oppose the policy where govt. has the power to ban smoking in such private establishments

    i admit i am ok with them banning smoking in govt. buildings, such as courts, etc.

    the distinctions are obvious.

    don't want to be around smoke? choose a smokeless bar (there were some prior to the ban) or stay out of bars. you have no sacrosanct right to go to a smoke free bar

    contrarily, courts are public places and if you want to file court papers, watch a trial, etc. you should be able to do so without smoke.

    imnsho

  • Invisible Finger||

    The one thing the smoking ban taught me is that I'm actually not allergic to smoke as much as alcohol. I thought the smoking ban - which I was against - would at least allow me to breathe at bars. Turns out I have an alcohol allergy and more than two beers really gets it going.

  • Rhinonamous||

    My sincere condolences.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    how wrong it was to build a mosque near Ground Zero

    That's actually not necessarily a political stance. For instance, I think that it's wrong of Doherty to spurn alt-text, but that's not a political stance.

  • ||

    +1. You can protest the construction of the mosque without advocating its prevention by force.

    For example, I don't like Islam. But do I believe I, or others, have any right whatsoever to restrict the building of a mosque? Absolutely not.

  • ||

    do you believe a libertarian has a right to picket, protest, and use other NON govt. means to try to prevent the building of same?

    honestly asking, not arguin'

    i'm not asking if you would do it, i'm saying do you think it's inconsistent or not for a libertarian who did that.

  • ||

    Sure, as long as the given libertarian isn't advocating the use of force to prevent its construction.

    "Your religion blows and it sucks that you're building a temple to its observance" isn't the same as bitching to the local planning commission to make the evil toweheads go away!11!!!(tm)

  • ||

    This is one of the biggest reasons why there will never be a liberaltarian fusion. Libertarians might think what you're doing is stupid, but we're happy to let you do it. Liberals think everything should be either mandatory or forbidden, and you'd damn well better like it that way. Disagreement can only mean you need to be re-educated.

  • David Emami||

    Really, liberals of today aren't really liberals anymore. I'm not talking about classical liberalism vs. post-FDR liberalism. Today's "liberals" are basically communitarians except when genitals are somehow involved. To the extent that they remain at all sympathetic towards drug legalization, it's really (as I see it, anyway) just nostalgia for the hippie era, not a principled position. After all, why should they push in one direction for marijuana when they're pushing hard in the opposite direction for absolutely everything else -- salt, soda, transfats, tobacco, yada yada yada?

  • ant1sthenes||

    I suspect that the non-liberal "liberals" only like abortion because they believe it mainly keeps the wrong sort of people from breeding too much.

    And I don't know that they're all that liberal about sex either. Certainly the nasty sort of feminists aren't. I imagine that, actual gays aside, they only embrace gay rights because the enemy isn't comfortable with gays. If the right stopped caring much one way or the other, they probably would too, or else they would rediscover the public health implications of sexuality.

  • ||

    To clarify, I don't see anything wrong with protesting the actions of others as long as you don't seek those actions to be reversed or punished by force.

  • ||

    don't most people who protest X want X not to happen?

    i mean protesting is a way of putting pressure on a person not to do what they are doing

    if they give in and decide not to do it out of fear of whatever due to the protests, is that "force" in your book?

    i understand one doesn't want GOVERNMENT force, but social pressure, ostracization and other stuff that can be brought about by protesting could be viewed as a kind of "force" i guess.

  • wareagle||

    don't most people who protest X want X not to happen?

    yes, but that does not mean they all want to force their will on everyone else. Chik-fil-A is an example; the CEO today went on the record re: something everyone with a pulse already knew - the company opposes same sex marriage.

    No one can force him to change his mind and his declaration will lead to some never buying his product again and to others supporting the business because they are of like mind. The point of differentiation comes when protest entails using the power of the state to get your way.

  • Killazontherun||

    I went there a decade ago because the person who accompanied me wanted to go and it was his turn to pick. It was out of some proto-hipster irony nastalga because in the 70's they were the only chain around with a chicken sandwich. By '02, every chain has a chicken sandwich better than Chik-fil-A, so it seemed to me a ridiculous choice.

    I only boycott Arby's. Not because their CEO is an Obama lapdog (he is) but because they have always sucked. Except for the odd milkshake thing.

  • Romulus Augustus||

    Call it a boycott or shunning. Nothing wrong with letting a business or group know that you oppose their doing X and you'll withdraw your patronage if they keep doing X.

  • ||

    You can oppose the practice of unpaid internships, without advocating their prevention by force :p

  • Scarcity||

    Once it's been debated on MSNBC or Fox, NO SUBTLETY ALLOWED! You have been outed as a Hannity-lover, AD.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Can we please get back to the serious issues? Like this missing alt-text.

  • The Hammer||

    Are you sure you're not a bot?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    I think therefore I am?

  • ||

    You pretend to think, therefore you seem to be?

  • ||

    Or rather, you appear to think, therefore you seem to be?

  • Mike M.||

    Is Urban Outfitters seriously carrying Mitt Romney tee shirts? That could end up being the worst-selling tee shirt in the history of tee shirts.

  • ||

    I don't even want to ironically wear the ironic Mitt Romney t-shirts, for ironic reasons that would be a secret to everyone around me.

    But some conservative hipsters might.

  • ||

    On a side note:

    Libertarianism: The extra layer of irony for the urban hipster who wants to have that extra edge.

  • Killazontherun||

    Brian, are any of your post less than two thousand words these days?

  • Brian Doherty||

    All of them are. This one is 835 words, for example.

  • SugarFree||

    PWN'D!

  • Killazontherun||

    Oh, like you didn't want to ask.

  • SugarFree||

    Take your pwn'ing like a man.

  • Killazontherun||

    I can't! I can't! I only play offense. Like expecting a wide receiver to be that guy out of the center pocket whose job it is to maim the quarterback. See, I don't even have the words for it.

  • Killazontherun||

    Even with my stigma induced double vision that only comes to 1670. I guess that means I was burned.

  • John||

    BURN!!

  • Killazontherun||

    It sounds like some people have been waiting for this day for a long, long time.

  • Brett L||

    They're like coyotes, once they smell blood on you, they'll turn on you, even though you're one of their own kind.

  • Killazontherun||

    Damn it! It is not even a life threatening gash. I will be The Last Coyote.

  • John||

    Pretty much Brett. If we didn't eat our own, who would we eat?

  • Tman||

    "the Boston-Cambridge yuppie axis more libertarian-friendly than you might expect when I lived there in the early to mid '90s.

    Um, what? Cambridge is essentially Stalin-east. Always has been. It's never-EVER- been libertarian friendly.

  • ||

    When I was living in Portland a hipster buddy of my room mate came into the living room while i was watching some show with Chomsky talking.

    He pointed at the screen and said "That guy is a communist". He was not being ironic or anything...he sincerely wanted to warn me about Chomsky's politics.

    Also in Portland i was out with my roommates and some hipster girls and i brought up fight club....anyway a cute blond hipster girl told me that Fight Club was socialist. At the time i never thought about it but she was right....i think she was looking to argue with me. Anyway i told her she was right it is socialist...still I liked it anyway cuz it was a fun book about being a man with a cool plot twist at the end.

    In all honesty Portland's hipsters from 2000 to 2005 politics when they actually talked about them were less in step with liberal politics then the punks of Seattle from 1993 to 1999.

  • AuH2O||

    In honor of the upcoming Season 2 of Alphas (which, if you haven't seen... really good show. Basically TV X-Men, but there's no Dazzler)...

    Also, SPOILERS, but seriously, watch that shit.

    "Libertarians exist. They are among us. They are our friends and our spouses. They are our sons and our daughters. Our neighbors, our coworkers. This is what we have been hiding. This is what we have been hiding. Sharing this truth may make things more messier; more complicated, but it will hold both sides accountable for their actions... And by sharing this truth, it will become evident to everyone that it is time to open their eyes, to open their minds, and to open their..."

  • The Hammer||

    No Dazzler? Why bother?

  • ||

    Isn't she dead in the marvel universe...or maybe I am thinking of Jubilee who is a 90s version of dazzler who got turned into a vampire.

  • ||

    I'm pretty sure they're both alive, and that Jubilee isn't a vampire.

  • ||

    Cyclops sends Pixie to check on her, and while the girls are chatting, Jubilee is one of many individuals to be mass infected with a bio-engineered virus by a vampire suicide bomber.

    It appears that Jubilee has been successfully transformed into a vampire and temporarily did the same to Wolverine after he came to rescue her.[40] She remains a vampire and was being detained in a holding cell beneath Utopia for observation.[41]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(comics)

  • ||

    Hearts? Legs? Mouths?

  • Killazontherun||

    If you have a facebook account, and you have progressive friends, you owe it to them to expose them to the racist and genocidal beliefs that their most cherished notions, like the goodness of minimum wage laws, are founded on.

    Spread it and expose them to light.

  • John||

    Like they would ever read it much less believe their lying eyes. Almost all of them are too far gone for that now.

  • Killazontherun||

    Enough ex-progs out there that even if you hit one percent within your stone throwing range you can make a significant impact on their lives.

  • NoVAHockey||

    "the progressive economists also
    believed that the job loss induced by minimum wages was a social benefit, as it performed the eugenic service ridding the labor force of the unemployable"

    damn

  • tarran||

    Of course, they didn't want the proles knowing their true intentions.

    So they put out a bunch of misleading propaganda that was widely promulgated by the government and by progressive media organs.

    And two generations later, people who had grown up bathed in this misleading propaganda believed it to be true.

  • ||

    I should say that this makes somewhat (though not quite) the same mistake that people make with the word "liberal". What people mean when they say "liberal" today is not what people meant when they said it 100 or 200 years ago. Similarly, what people mean today when they say "progressive" is not what they meant 100 years ago.

  • Killazontherun||

    No. that is a glib non response. You are making the error, not me, nor the author whose definitions are drawn from knowledge of historical happenings. An author who went through the trouble of digging through a mountain of text to get at the truth, whereas, you don't know what the hell you are talking about in relation to this essay. RTFA. The post-liberal, progressive economist understood that minimum wage and the welfare state could be used for the harm of the undesirable. Modern progressives are ignorant of the purposes of those laws.

    Your progressive pals do not get off the hook. Ignorance is not a valid excuse.

  • Killazontherun||

    But, I'm most offended because I wrote my post above with the words that I wrote them in anticipation of the response you gave to avoid anyone writing that vapid defense. Fucking heartbreaking how stupid some of you are.

  • Killazontherun||

    I mean, you see the car coming a mile away, so you avoid crossing that road, as I'm clearly making that cautious move here, 'If you have a facebook account, and you have progressive friends, you owe it to them to expose them to the racist and genocidal beliefs that their most cherished notions, like the goodness of minimum wage laws, are founded on., yet the driver is so reckless I get hit on the curb anyway. Fuck, that is annoying!

  • John||

    At what point, and it will happen, does old line boring 1960s New Left liberalism, finally be considered the stale, conformist, old person's ideology it is?

    Regardless of what you think of it, we are now 40 years past the 60s and the Left hasn't had a new idea during the entire time or really since the 1930s. You can call it a lot of things, but you can't call it, new, cutting edge, or hip.

  • Apple||

    I suspect most hipsters have a lot more friends with libertarian leanings than they realize. These would be the friends who don't talk about politics because they still want their lefty friends to come to their shows and buy their art. And fuck them.

  • John||

    If being a libertarian relieves you of the danger of having a hipster friend or even having to associate with hipsters, where do I sign up?

  • John||

    That could make a good T-Shirt

    Libertarianism: It is like hipster repellent.

  • Brett L||

    Yes. I have kept my politics inside me so I could my penis inside her a time or two.

  • ||

    I've converted a few lefty girls. All it takes is repeatedly laughing at their stupid opinions. I'm not sure if it stuck after I ceased banging them, but who really cares?

  • Aresen||

    "...until the veneer of consensus slips away..."

    I lost my veneer a few weeks back. If you have it, please return it. No questions asked.

  • Killazontherun||

    I have to warn you, jokes at Brian's expense come back with claw and fang today.

  • John||

    Veneers are cagey little bastards. They are always slipping away when you are not looking.

  • LJackman||

    The SuicideGirls article is entertaining. In a single article she managed to compare Paul supporters to the Weather Underground and Abortion Clinic Bombers, compare Ron Paul to Fidel Castro and Adolf Hitler, and argue that a libertarian philosophy is equivalent to fascism. It's been awhile since I've read an article that profoundly idiotic.

    If that doesn't warrant a "Tits of GTFO" response, I don't know what does.

  • Kuze||

    One of the biggest failings of liberal thinking is the inability to understand the actual position of opposing beliefs. Perpetual failure of the 'ideological Turing test'

  • Auric Demonocles||

    I remember there was an article about that linked from H*squirrels*R maybe a year ago.

  • GeneralAntilles||

    I did some googling, and I think it's Jonathan Haidt you're looking for. The book about liberals' inability to connect with the world-view of conservatives is The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion.

    Seems like interesting stuff. I do a lot of volunteer work in open source, which is generally infested by leftists (socialists and their near-relatives, in particular), and I've encountered rather striking misconceptions about what libertarianism and conservatism is actually about.

    I had an encounter last night, in fact, where a self-described socialist was floored that I didn't have a problem with gays being married or that I supported legalizing all drugs (yet don't use them myself).

  • TindWeee||

    OK wow so who comes up with all that crazy stuff. Wow.

    www.New-Anon.tk

  • Tulpa the White||

    "conservative libertarian." It's also unclear exactly what that means

    DONDEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

  • Brandybuck||

    "That band that was so edgy, they would go out on stage and refuse to play. The crowd would go wild! The critics couldn't stop writing about it!"

  • GILMORE||

    The only person semi-qualified to write an article like the one referenced would be Mike Moynihan = a true-blue, Reason-brand Monacle wearer who now writes for the Hipster Bible in the Mecca of the Hipster Universe...

    (aka, Vice Magazine in Williamsburg, Brooklyn)

    I've lived in Wburg for a dozen years, and it most certainly deserves its reputation as the navel of hipster corpus - much of what has come to be known as such originally germinated here and progressively spread around the country

    Regarding the political leanings of the hipster-species, I have commented before = it is unfair to label them as having ANY genuine 'political' leanings or affiliation, primarily because the True Hipster, the honest to god beast, maintains a transcendent superiority to such petty, materialist things, and will proudly demonstrate their complete and utter ignorance of any actual policy or philosophies of governance. Oh, sure - some have a read a book or 2, and may at times mention it offhand... but when prodded, will admit (or inadvertently reveal) a profound lack of understanding of the actual ideas contained therein. If one points this out to them, the reply will be a shrug and a, "hey man, lighten up". Frankly, it's NOT COOL to have any particular 'serious' understanding of most things not somehow related to indie music or where to get decent drugs.

    I suspect the people the author refers to are just 'young people', not proper 'hipsters'.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    "when she quotes a liberal pal of Benedetti's saying that if Benedetti was a social conservative, "that would be a deal-breaker. The fact that he identifies with those people is unattractive enough, but I could not be friends with someone that thinks same-sex couples shouldn't have the right to marry."

    Honestly, I wouldn't want to be friends with this pal, myself. The kind of person who picks their friends to have an echo chamber of their own presumptions tends to be an asshole.

  • steve walsh||

    "those people", indeed.

    I'm a libertarian in Massachusetts disguised as a 54 year-old white Boston born and raised Irish Catholic guy. She'll never see through this...

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