General Theory Explains Obama Book Catalogue, Hawaii Birth Certificate, and Cherokee Elizabeth Warren

Breitbart.com is getting new mileage out of its discovery of a 1991 literary catalogue which claims that then-aspiring author Barack Obama was born Kenya. 

Literary agent Miriam Goderich took responsibility for the birthplace error in a statement that Nick Gillespie recently called "definitive as definitive can be." 

But the Breitbart folks have now revealed a new facet of the story: that author bios sent out by Jane Dystel’s literary agency (now the Dystel & Goderich agency) are written and submitted by the authors themselves. Writer Steve Boman recounts his own experience with the agency during the nineties: 

In my dealings with Dystel, I found her exceptionally thorough and very professional. She had a template she wanted non-fiction writers to follow, and my writing partner and I followed her template closely...

All material she used in our proposals came directly from me and my writing partner. She edited our rough-draft proposals and gave us feedback, but the final versions were all ours. Our final versions, bio included, were then simply photo-copied, by us, and distributed to potential publishers. This was back in the pre-Google days, recall. 

I was asked to write the bio in the third person... 

Several years later, my writing partner and I returned to Dystel with what we thought was a better proposal... I have pulled that proposal out of my files, and it is sitting on my desk as I write this.

That second proposal logged in at 59 pages, including original art and writing samples. My bio for that proposal was five sentences long. 

The policy appears not to have changed. From the submission requirements at Dystel’s website:  

Finally, there should be a more formal narrative Bio of the author.

This is followed by links that serve as Support Material—reviews of previous books, recent articles by and about you from national publications, a schedule of speaking appearances, any national media appearances, etc.

Now this is all less definitive than Goderich’s statement. (And who wouldn’t take the word of an agent when there’s documentation to the contrary?) But it does show that what I always thought was Andrew Breitbart’s particular genius – the ability to string a story along by releasing bits of new information that contradict the subjects’ denials – appears to live on at the company he founded. 

Does this mean America must head back down the murky corridors of the birthers? Maybe not. I believe we can reconcile Obama’s legitimate Hawaiian birth certificate with the Kenyan-birth claims that, we now know, precede birtherism by nearly two decades. And as it happens, the Democratic Party has recently given us the example we need.  

Thanks to Elizabeth Warren’s heated Senate campaign against Republican Scott Brown, we now know to a pretty fair certainty that the Harvard law professor falsely claimed her family history included membership in the Cherokee Nation. It also appears that Warren used this fake affiliation to further her career. 

Warren’s fictional Cherokee history and Obama’s imagined Kenyan birth share a common point: Neither Warren nor Obama could know the absolute truth about events that took place when they were respectively not alive and newborn. But all children are susceptible to family scuttlebutt. Both Warren and Obama are exceptionally opportunistic people for whom “Close enough for government work” is a permanent way of life. 

So here’s my theory: Obama was born in Hawaii, but at some point in his life he considered it expedient to claim he was born in Kenya. In other words, the myth of the Kenyan birth was invented by Barack Obama himself. 

Maybe (as I suspect was the case for Warren) he was merely making vague reference to stories he’d heard as a child and did not know for sure that the claim was false. Maybe he believed that a foreign birth would confer some extra prestige or exoticism on an up-and-coming community organizer and prose writer. In any event, the only narrative that makes sense of all the elements is this one: Obama himself actively or passively originated the story that he was born in Kenya. 

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  • silverbull8||

    Apply this simple, 3-point, requirement equally to every US President, Vice President and candidates for those offices:
    1. They were native-born in the USA.
    2. At the moment of birth, both parents were married to each other.
    3. At the moment of birth, both parents were US Citizens.

    You will soon separate the eligible from those who are not eligible.
    Romney passes, and Obama fails.

  • IceTrey||

    Not number two.

  • Agammamon||

    And not number three either.

  • Hugh Akston||

    I would be satisfied with any candidate who has heard the song "Born in the USA."

  • ||

    I like number one.

    Its history is anti-colonial and supports local government vs central government.

    It is not needed today but there is no reason to think it would not be needed in the future.

    You never know when Aegon Targaryen is going to come with his two sisters and three dragons.

  • Starkweather||

    Yes. The Targaryens are a constant threat to America. Just like they are to Westeros. I mean really dragons? The WMDs of Westeros. Stay vigilant my friends.

  • Nooge.||

    I'm only on book three, but I sincerely hope that Daenerys burns it all down.

  • IceTrey||

    Definitely number three.

    SCOTUS
    Minor v Happersett

    "...all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    A passage in a philosophical text book does not get to be law just because you and a handful of other crackpots want it to.

    And your Supreme Court case does not support your view at all. If anything, it contradicts it.

    And Vattel is a French name. And the language in which he wrote his book was French. I don't care if his actual nationality was Swiss he was ethnically French from the French section of Switzerland. Hence froggy bastard.

    And no matter how widely read his work was it doesn't overrule reams of contrary precedent and the fact that colonial America followed British law in making jus soli with no regard for the citizenship of parents the primary requirement for citizenship.

    You also have to account for the fact that there has never been a single opinion in law expressed in support of your theory. The legal meaning of natural born citizen has always been recognized to mean what is normally inferred from that simple three word combination. ie someone who became a citizen as a consequence of their birth.

  • IceTrey||

    You must love to be wrong. That quote is from a Supreme Court majority opinion. You claim I am wrong yet you provide no cogent arguments or even links to any refuting me. Therefore it is an ad hominen attack and worthless. You don't even know the nationality of Vattel. While colonial America might have followed British common law, the post revolution America did not. Federal law is based on natural law and the laws of nations. You don't even know that british law was about subjects not citizens. I'm sure you don't know that non Christians born in Britain at that time were not subjects. Plus Britain currently does not grant citizenship to the children of non resident aliens. Plus if jus soli is required what about children born overseas to citizen parents? So your jus soli argument is wrong too.

    Your definition of "natural born citizen" is "born a citizen"? Why even use the word natural then? Define "natural" in "natural born Citizen".

  • Seamus||

    It means not conceived through IVF. (Our Founding Fathers were, if nothing else, foresightful.)

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    If you read the opinion you'll find that the reference to Vattel are some random musings by the writer where he quotes the old frog and then proceeds to contradict him.

    And I can't be bothered to argue because there is nothing to argue against. Like creationists and flat earthers birthers like you fall back on mythology against which there can be no argument because it is essentialy illogical on its face.

    The certificators I can forgive, they are simply ignorant bigots. But the NBCers couch their nativist bigotry in the oh so intellectuality of an eighteenth century book by an obscure Swiss philosopher (I know perfectly well that Vattel was Swiss, he had a French name and his language was French, hence frog bastard).

    Finally, I repeat, just because Vattel thought what he did, it doesn't make it law.

    And early America did follow English common law. And even if they did follow natural law, the opinio of some old frog does not determine natural law especially when no one, except you and your crackpot friends, agrees with him.

  • IceTrey||

    Hahaha. You are a joke. Crawl back into your hole Obot. I give you the opinion of 9 Justices and you give nothing but baseless ad hominen attacks. Just because you keep shouting "I'M RIGHT!" doesn't make it so. Saying there is nothing to argue about is the last refuge of a loser. Until you provide proof of your claims you are nothing but a waste of time.

  • sticks||

    What law, or ruling or part of the Constitution supports 2,3?

  • IceTrey||

    See above for 3.

  • ReformRealist||

    You realize No.3 would effectively bar many first-generation Americans from office. That is certainly not constitutional.

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    You have to realize that Ice Trey believes that some passage in a philosophy text by some old frog bastard is actual law. This in spite of the fact that it runs utterly counter to the law which was followed in colonial America and the logical understanding of everyone but him and a handful of crackpots.

  • IceTrey||

    Don't let him lie to you Reform. He's an Obot.

    SCOTUS
    Minor v Happersett
    majority opinion

    "...all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    I could counter your "He's an Obot" with "he's a bigot" with respect to you.

    However, I will not stoop to the ad hom as you just did.

    I have explained over and over that passages in philosophy books don't get to be law just because you want them to be. Nowhere in law is your definition of "Natural Born Citizen" stated.

    If the founders wanted that to be the definition they should have codified it. Otherwise everyone has to get by on the meaning that the the thre simple words in that combination convey.

  • IceTrey||

    Please show in law your definition.

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    Speaking of SCOTUS decisions, remember the one that says, "the negro has no rights which the white man was bound to respect".

    The fact is that SCOTUS decisions are nowhere near as precedent setting as you want to think. Dred Scott was overturned when the country was found to hold new opinions.

    What makes you think that an obscure citizenship case would ever hold up when no one agrees with the principle stated therein today. Especially considering that the doctrine was stated in such a vague rambling way as to make the reader wonder why the hell the writer included it in the first place.

    Plain and simple, even if you are correct that Vattel's definition is what the founders were thinking, there is not a single legislator, judge, election official, prosecutor or attorney in the country who agrees.

  • IceTrey||

    You really are an ignorant moron. The Minor case was a voting rights case. You obviously don't know shit about the issue. Crawl back into your hole Obot.

  • IceTrey||

    It's constitutional because the qualifications for POTUS are IN the Constitution. Yes, Rubio and Jindal do not qualify for the Presidency. Life's a bitch.

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    Your definition of "natural Born Citizen" is not in the constitution.

    As far as the three million Americans other than you and your crackpot friends are concerned, Rubio and Jindal do qualify for the Presidency.

    More importantly every legal scholar with any standing agrees.

  • IceTrey||

    "Your definition of "natural Born Citizen" is not in the constitution."

    Neither is yours.

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    Except for the fact that mine is the one that every legal authority accepts today.

    Lok, I would have no problem accepting Vattel's view if that were the one accepted by modern jurisprudence. Problem is, it isn't.

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    Not just every legal authority, but every person now living in the United States of America.

    That is except for you and and a handful of nutcases.

  • IceTrey||

    Show that the SCOTUS accepts tour definition.

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    Simple question, if Vattel's doctrine is US law, why did the Clinton's simply not take B Hussein Obama to court and have him disqualified before he was even nominated? And if you think the Clinton's would not have used that if it was an option you're even crazier than I think.

    It's because they would be laughed out of any court before they had finished the first paragraph of arguments.

    Thing is, you can believe in Vattel all you want to. No one else does.

  • IceTrey||

    Why do you have such a hard on for Vattel? I have not used him anywhere on this thread. I give the words of a unanimous majority opinion in a SCOTUS case while you give nothing but childish ranting. Crawl back into your hole Obot.

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    You're the one with the hard-on for Vattel. Your entire argument rests on the idea that we should accept as law his phrasing. Plenty of guys from Paine to Gallatin expressed notions that I would have liked to have included in modern American law. I don't get my way, neither do you.

  • IceTrey||

    Wow you really are a retard. What part of "I gave you a SCOTUS opinion that defines NBC as "born in a country to citizen parents" do you not understand?

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    Furthermore, how about an answer?

    Why did the Clinton's simply not take B Hussein Obama to court and have him disqualified before he was even nominated?

  • ||

    I really only agree with number 1.

    Bastard anchor babies built this county asshole.

  • IceTrey||

    So McCain was not eligible?

  • ReformRealist||

    Again, he is talking about making those three points requirements for holding office. So if one of your parents was not a citizen at the time of your birth then you would not be able to hold office.

  • IceTrey||

    Yeah that's right. That's what all of this stuff about Obama's father is about.

  • ReformRealist||

    I don't agree with any of them. Number 1 I can see, but I still feel that if you've been a citizen for a while that you should be able to hold office as well.

  • IceTrey||

    The only office denied is POTUS.

  • ReformRealist||

    Yes and I believe not even that should be.

  • IceTrey||

    All you have to do is amend the Constitution. You should get right on that.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    2. At the moment of birth, both parents were married to each other.
    3. At the moment of birth, both parents were US Citizens.

    Yes, only those pure of the blood of the American race shall represent the Great Motherland!

  • IceTrey||

    The intention is so someone with divided allegiances does not become CIC of the armed forces.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    No. The intention is to narrow the pool of possible candidates down to a small sample of approved people as possible.

  • IceTrey||

    There are tens of millions of Americans of all types who qualify. Hardly a small sample. What about the age and residency requirements?

  • Joe R.||

    American voters are stupid, but not stupid enough to elect a secret enemy of the state.

  • IceTrey||

    It might elect someone who goes to war for their former country even if it is not in the best interests of the US. Stuff like that.

  • ||

    1. They were native-born in the USA.
    2. At the moment of birth, both parents were married to each other.
    3. At the moment of birth, both parents were US Citizens.

    2) This one is interesting. The gay marriage advocates would like this one, actually. If you wanted a catch all amendment to the Constitution to define and protect gay marriage, this is it. As per the Supremacy Clause, amending The Constitution to allow marriage be defined as between any two people to supercede any amendments or laws in their state constitutions. There is nothing in Constitution that says anything about sexual persuasion being a requirement for office, and I don't believe people would want to disqualify a gay president the opportunity to occupy the office of POTUS.

    The Constitution is pretty open on who qualifies, and I happen to agree with 1), though I could be persuaded to permit naturalized Americans to serve as POTUS if there was a specific length of time naturalized and having resided in the USA proper enumerated in the amendment.

    The only downside is if the definition was written as specifically between one man and one woman, but that would purposefully exclude a gay candidate for POTUS, and I don't think that would honestly fly with a majority of the populous.

    Though 3) sounds good in theory, it is unnecessary in lieu of 1) as it stands, or if amended to allow for naturalized citizens to serve as POTUS.

  • IceTrey||

    Silverbull is just wrong on number two. As long as they are citizens the parents don't have to be married.

  • Tulpa the White||

    I don't think he's claiming that's how it is, but how it should be.

  • IceTrey||

    Silverbull is just wrong on number two. As long as they are citizens the parents don't have to be married.

  • Starkweather||

    I disagree with all three. Why should someone who immigrated when they were a child was raised in the U.S., went to school, has a job, and a family here not be able to run for any office? Divided loyalties? Shouldn't that be up to the voting public to decide?

  • Tulpa the White||

    Shouldn't that be up to the voting public to decide?

    If we took that attitude, why bother having a Constitution at all? The Constitution is supposed to throw a roadblock up in the way of democracy.

  • Starkweather||

    I do think the Constitution should be followed no argument there. I just think that the Constitution should be amended to allow for American citizens outside the U.S. to run for POTUS. It is just my opinion.

    Nice straw man though.

  • Amakudari||

    I don't think he's claiming that's how it is, but how it should be.

  • Tulpa the White||

    That's an extremely smart thing to say.

  • Tulpa the White||

    (2) would exclude a person whose father died during the pregnancy, which is kind of rough, don't you think?

    That's in addition to having no plausible reason behind it. The native-born citizenship requirement (which doesn't require birth in the US, just immediate US citizenship after birth) is intended to make it less likely that the Commander In Chief has loyalties to another country. I don't see any purpose for (2) or (3) other than social engineering.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    That's in addition to having no plausible reason behind it.

    You can't be havin' any of those dirty faggots running for POTUS, now can we?

  • sloopyinca||

    **spit take**

    /James Buchanan

  • mad libertarian guy||

    I'm so glad you caught the sarcasm. I thought of putting the /sarc tag for a minute, then I said "fuck it; if you don't get it or think I'm being serious, I'm not talking to you anyways."

    It's good that a new woman with child hasn't fried your brain.

    Yet anyways.

    How is the bluegrass instrument?

  • sloopyinca||

    She's just dandy. We went and got a dog today (1/2 German Shepherd-1/2 Aussie Cattle Dog) for her. We now are the proud owners of 4 cats, 10 chickens and a dog.

    Oh, and her boobs are HUGE!!! so I'm doing wall also.

  • Tulpa the White||

    That's a very lucky wall.

  • sloopyinca||

    A lucky wall is an happy wall :-O

  • General Butt Naked||

    So what job do have lined up for the tyke; chimney sweep or textile factory?

    And don't tell me your baby's still unemployed, moocher.

  • sloopyinca||

    He/she's only been in the oven for 10 weeks. And he/she's gonna get the first year free as long as he/she comes out in December.

    His job: fucking the IRS out of a full year's deduction and being out of his momma's belly for only a week.

  • General Butt Naked||

    10 weeks, no job.

    If you want to be the charitable sort that's your business, but it's a bad sign when a youngster has had over two months in the womb and still isn't gainfully employed. He's probably in there playing the video games, listening to (c)rap music and having a good laugh at your naivety.

  • IceTrey||

    Dude c'mon. Native means born in the country.

  • Amakudari||

    All stupid, 2 mindnumbingly so.

    I understand the original reason for restricting the office to native-born Americans, but are we really at risk of Tory sympathies? The fear was that the president would have sympathies for a foreign power, which is dangerous for a young country. I think voters are stupid but not that stupid. SLD that it should be enforced as long as it's in the Constitution.

    And those categories would just give rise to equally retarded Marriager and Citizenshipper groups. Then we'd be going through this every election cycle.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Not just a young country. Look at the trouble our undeserved sympathy for Israel has gotten us into.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    JOOOOOOOOOZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • IceTrey||

    The office is restricted to NATURAL BORN citizens.

  • Brian from Texas||

    Half this country's Presidents would not have been eligible if requirements 2 3 really existed.

  • Mo||

    Romney's dad didn't pass 1 and no one made an issue of it when he ran for president.

  • ||

    Considering you become a US citizen by marrying one, 3 is moot.

  • Mint Berry Crunch||

    So here’s my theory: Obama was born in Hawaii, but at some point in his life he considered it expedient to claim he was born in Kenya.

    Makes sense to me.

  • ||

    Obama himself actively or passively originated the story that he was born in Kenya.

    In such a world can Birthers really be considered so very crazy?

    Yes they are wrong but really only slightly.

  • ||

    In world where Obama did not know his birth place or actively hid it in the 1990s, is world where Birthers are probably not racist either.

  • sloopyinca||

    I'm a birther and I hardly consider myself racist. I would hope everybody on here knows me well enough to know my birtherism isn't based in race, but is based on Obama's persistent and calculated efforts to hide everything from his past that would change America's perception of him to that of a lying, cheating, sneaky son-of-a-bitch.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    I don't think the birthers are automatically crazy or racist (although some definitely fall into both categories), just wrong.

    The thing that doesn't add up for me is the idea that 18yo Stanley Ann Dunham travels to Africa, or wherever, while pregnant, and has baby BO there. Why? And it's known that she was back in school in Seattle shortly after his birth.

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.....stanl.html

    That's a lot of travelling in 1961 for a pregnant 18yo girl.

  • sloopyinca||

    Seattle to Nairobi is 8994 miles.
    Seattle to Honolulu 2680 miles.

    Either one is a lot of traveling for an 18 year old girl in 1961.

  • SIV||

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Right, but both is a hell of a lot of traveling.

    And why?

    Why go to a third world shithole in 1961 to give birth? Or is the theory that she was living there and before she became pregnant in Nov-Dec 1960 and then decided to leave immediately after giving birth?

    There's another conspiracy theory floating around that Barack was actually born in Seattle, not Hawaii, which fits the timeline of her known whereabouts better than the official HI birth story or the foreign birther theory.

  • Tulpa the White||

    I heard someone say that they read somewhere that his mother isn't really his mother.

  • SIV||

    She carried him to term. The actual embryo was grown in a vat from one of Patrice Lummumba's testicles that was removed by his CIA assassins 8 MONTHS BEFORE HE WAS BORN!

    Obama is LITERALLY one of America's figurative chickens come home to roost.

  • sloopyinca||

    You're confusing him with Trig Palin.

    (I'll leave the obvious "it's easy to confuse two mongoloids for each other" joke to someone else)

  • Killazontherun||

    There are oddities, like the Kenyan government dedicating the sight of Obama's birth, and many other strange things that have not been answered. But it still does not make sense for the reason you give. In the last stages of pregnancy, to travel to Kenya, at a time when it would have been hugely expensive to do so, just to come back a week later. I'd have to see those missing flight logs.

  • Mike M.||

    Stanley Anne Dunham was about the furthest thing from a normal 18 year old girl in 1961. She was a cultural anthropologist who was raised by her communist parents to despise the white-bread middle America of her birth from the time she was a child.

    Even when she was young, the Dunhams were constantly moving around, seeking out fellow travelers. She ended up spending most of her life seeking out and trying to help the "noble savages" of famed liberal fiction, and she started early.

  • Tulpa the White||

    The problem, sloopy, is that his birth in the US is backed up by official documents he had nothing to do with creating.

    Yes, he's a compulsive liar, but none of the many falsehoods he has uttered are backed up by the amount evidence that his being born in Hawaii is.

    And I don't think you're a racist, just someone who hates BO so much he'll latch on to anything. I can't really blame you for the hate, as I for the most part share it, but you have to hate in the right way, not the wrong way.

  • sloopyinca||

    You mean the birth certificate that took years to disclose and has been called a forgery by many experts in the field? Not to mention his SSN being from CT. And the fact that the government he is in charge of has blocked access to his Selective Service Registration info (or lack thereof). And the fact that Obama's grandmother said she was at his birth in Kenya. And the fact that he has blocked all access to any information about his status in high school or the colleges he attended. And the fact that there is an actual Kenyan birth certificate for him. And the fact that he has hidden (and refuses to disclose) any passport information from his early life.

    Look, I don't care if he was born in Kenya. I think his mother would have passed on her citizenship to him anyway and he'd be in the clear to run for President. I just like pointing out that the man is and has been a serial liar and deceiver his entire known life (about the last 10 years or so). He capitalized on his Kenyan birth and lineage when it was useful (like when he got went to Occidental and Harvard), and when it looked like he had a shot at becoming a presidential candidate, he scrubbed the world of most information he could find that would possible disqualify him. Of course, he kept the hard-luck story but changed the first chapter to what was necessary to reach his objective (born in the USA).

    Again, I don't care where he was born. I think he is still eligible to be President, but I think he was born in Kenya.

  • Tulpa the White||

    If I were president and a bunch of yahoos demanded to see my private personal information I'd tell them to go pound sand. Big mistake by BO in even whetting their appetites.

    And we're going to need identities and credentials of the "experts" who think the BC was forged, source for the CT-issued SSN along with proof of authenticity, source for Obama's dead grandmother's quote, and to subject the supposed Kenyan BC to the same nitpicking those "experts" gave the Hawaii one.

    Sorry to disrupt your conspiricizing with a request for proof, but that's the way the world works, bub.

  • sloopyinca||

    Birth Cert info here. The man's credentials here.

    FTA: "Paul Irey is a retired pioneer in professional photo typography with 50 years experience. Mr. Irey’s expertise goes back to 1967 when he started Bergan Graphics in Fort Lee, N.J. At one point Bergan Graphics had 60 employees working ‘round-the-clock, so Mr. Irey is no small player in his business."

  • sloopyinca||

  • Tulpa the White||

    I"m floored by the fact that BO's SSN is publicly known.

    But as Snopes reasons, it's hard to see how that indicates anything unless you're claiming he never lived in Hawaii, which I don't think anyone did.

  • sloopyinca||

  • sloopyinca||

    Here is a copy of the Kenyan birth certificate. Feel free to scrutinize it all you want or get an expert to do so.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Well this is sad to see, sloopy. You've gone totally off the deep end.

    Do you even see which websites you're linking to?

  • sloopyinca||

    I know. I wish it were more widely reported.

    Did you feel the same way when people were talking about the National Enquirer story about John Edwards and Reille Hunter?

  • sloopyinca||

    Lastly, here is the Washington Times' story on the Selective Service System blocking public access to records of Obama's registration.

    Here is The Western Center For Journalism's analysis. I cannot attest to their site, but they raise valid points.

  • IceTrey||

    The Presidents always release their records. Bush did.

  • Tulpa the White||

    I think he is still eligible to be President, but I think he was born in Kenya.

    You haven't read the Constitution either?

  • sloopyinca||

    You haven't read the Constitution either?

    But IMO the five-years thing making his mother have to be 19 to confer citizenship would never pass any constitutional scrutiny. If she is an American citizen, I do not care how old she is/was. Her citizenship is passed to her offspring.

    It would be akin to saying any child today born to a minor parent while out of the country would not be an American citizen. And I just know that would never stand if taken to court.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Well, this is a pretty muddy topic.

    If both parents are US citizens who are merely traveling abroad temporarily when birth occurs, I don't think there's any doubt the offspring should be a natural born citizen of the US. But if they're actually living permanently outside the US or one parent is not a US citizen I could see potential loyalty problems.

  • sloopyinca||

    I can't. Loyalty is developed through one's life. It's not hereditary. And as far as I'm concerned, citizenship can and should be conferred by either parent. Dual citizenship isn't that uncommon. Once someone reaches adulthood, they can make a decision what nationality they will permanently adopt. It's unfair for that decision to be made for them.

  • IceTrey||

    @sloopyinca

    It's already passed SCOTUS scrutiny.

    http://en.terra.com/latin-in-a.....n/hof15600

  • Killazontherun||

    I'll have to disagree. I do care as a matter of principle, an American president should shit the red, white and blue when he takes a crap, the founders were right to leery of divided loyalties, and a guy going around calling himself a Kenyan should not be president. I care as a matter to the facts, though I still lean to him being born here, if you are right, everything he ever signed into law is null and void. At to the present we are building to a crises of legitimacy, and his supporters should be leaning on him to clear this up by opening up the college transcripts.

  • Tulpa the White||

    shit the red, white and blue

    Grape soda addiction, receptive anal sex, and hemorrhoids is a strange combination of qualifications.

  • Killazontherun||

    Anything less is a dereliction of duty to country.

    He he he, duty.

  • Mensan||

    "... American president should shit the red, white and blue when he takes a crap ..."

    So, the president should have a lower GI bleed, have biliary cirrhosis or hepatitis, and be receiving treatment for radiation poisoning?

  • Mensan||

    And Tulpa already covered this, and I should learn to read down the thread before commenting.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Yours sounds more scientific (and grape soda is more green than blue anyway).

  • IceTrey||

    In '61 Hawaii gave BC's to anyone who asked. The more citizens they had the more money they got. It was a real nightmare.

  • Jennifer||

    I've concluded that Birthers are actually deep-cover Democratic operatives, which is why, whenever I read a political thread discussing the myriad ways Obama is trashing the constitution, the Birther Demos inevitably appear en masse and derail the discussion with rants about Kenya, and presidential names typed in ALL CAPS because the names contain words like HUSSEIN which clearly does NOT originate from any of the countries in EUROPE so how can this be LEGAL [blah blah].

    I imagine the Birthers all hanging out in their extinct volcano hideout, and whenever an Internet thread mentions the word "Obama" plus TSA or NDAA or "close Guantanamo" or other keywords, a red light flashes and a siren blares and the Birther Keyboard Commandos all slide down their brass firepoles and rush to their computers to type comments like "Of COURSE he wants to FORCE all Americans to convert to ISLAM because that's what people BORN IN KENYA and named HUSSEIN do...."

  • SIV||

    Go ride your inflatable Obama doll Jennifer.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    Whether its a Birther thinking Clown was secreted in Kenya or Clown wanting us to think that very thing, why the lies to others or yourself?

    I don't think there is any evidence whatsoever suggesting Clown's honkey half ever touched down in Africa once in her life, much less before spawning Clown. Aren't all these people - Clown included I guess - worried about anyone actually checking facts? Bizarre, but maybe a Freudian slip all the same that way.

  • JeopardyJackson||

    That's because Sarah Palin is Obama's *real* birth mother, duh!

  • Just Dropping By||

    While I'm sure that Obama did submit a draft of this bio (which is certainly what was required by every place I've ever submitted a paper to for publication), why would he claim he was born in Kenya when he was writing an autobiography that mentions being born in Hawaii? It's exceedingly bizarre to tell a lie in your bio blurb that you know will be contradicted by your own book. (Obama personally claiming to have been born in Kenya is also radically inconsistent with the common criticism of him that he's been planning to run for president since adolescence at the latest.) This situation seems most plausibly explained by an editing goof in shortening the bio for the brochure.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    I agree. This is critical enthusiasm for (valid) Elizabeth Warren shenanigans bleeding over into a 'false-positive' about Clown's origins one more time.

    Fact is, nobody will ever know the real truth about Obama - that he's a mutant Klingon from their energy-moon Praxus. He's got'em all fooled.

  • Starkweather||

    Praxus blows up dude.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    Praxus blows up dude.

    Not for a long time.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    The bio blurb was published in 1991, and referenced an upcoming book called Journeys in Black and White for which Barack had already received a sizable advance.

    Dreams was published in 1995. A story revealed in a recent biography is that Barack suffered from writers block and was unable to proceed with the original book. After several years the publisher threatened to sue to get the advance back. At which point Barack sent his notes to friend William Ayers, who either helped him write Dreams or ghost wrote it for him.

    Given that narrative, it is entirely possible that Barack lied about his birth place, either to get the advance in the first place, or even earlier to get preferential academic treatment as a foreign student.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Cut off

    And that lie was a source of his writers block that prevented him from completing the original book.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    Even if Clown did it, that's like twenty-one years ago and at worst will be chocked up to clerical error or whatever.

    The silliness of Birthing has muddied the water with too much muck to get any points on this, even if Mitt's minions tried.

  • Killazontherun||

    Nope. This one stings. Tim and Nick would not be talking about it, neither would I if it were the standard birther fare. Don't bet against Breitbart, they already set things in motion to catch some people lying with follow ups.

  • Starkweather||

    I am not a birther. In fact, if Obama up and said I was born in Kenya but I am an American I still think he should be able to run for POTUS.
    I do think the fact that he is a lying liar from Liarsville is something that every voter should know so I applaud the Breitbarts for bringing this "mistake" to the publics attention.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Way too many moving parts to that theory to survive an Occam-off against the blurb writer making a mistake explanation.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    By the writer you mean Barack, right?

    Cause the publisher required their authors to submit there own bios.

  • Tulpa the White||

    The author-submitted bios were not necessarily just copied and pasted into the pamphlets.

    And if you're hanging your hat on Boman's claims, there are two problems: it's a he-said-she-said of him vs. the blurb writer, and there's no proof that his case was typical even if he's telling the truth.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    I'm not hanging my hot on anything.

    I'm just pointing out that there's a lot of weird shit in his background up to and including the unsealing of the Ryan divorce records when O ran for Senate.

    And we know for a fact that he's a pathological lying pos, based on his public record since winning the Senate seat.

    I think Baracks been a lying pos his whole life and at this point maybe even he doesn't know what the truth is.

    The most mysterious part to me is how and why so much of his past is sealed and unavailable for public scrutiny. And I include his birth certificate in that.

    Getting a fucking copy of someone's BC doesn't take an act of god and yet in his case it did. WTF???

    And who has the juice to seal all of his other records and why the fuck aren't the media crawling all over that to dig out facts by means fair or foul?

    Anyone with a brain can see there's some weird spooky shit going on with this guy. And I'm really sick of dumbfucks that just shrug their shoulders over it.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Getting a fucking copy of someone's BC doesn't take an act of god and yet in his case it did. WTF???

    Link to a PDF of your birth certificate?

    Oh, you don't want to divulge personal records. OK.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    I'm not running for president yet.

    When I do, I'll post it for all to see.

  • sloopyinca||

    Getting birth certificates for another person can be tough. Apparently getting divorce records unsealed and released is a bit easier.

  • Tulpa the White||

    You marry a Delta Quadrant chick you deserve whatever you get.

  • Killazontherun||

    Did you ever get that photocopy from the first edition where he makes that claim? Would apreesh.

    Obama personally claiming to have been born in Kenya is also radically inconsistent with the common criticism of him that he's been planning to run for president since adolescence at the latest.

    Assumes he was even aware there were qualifications for the office. I've seen no evidence that he has read the constitution.

  • Len Bias||

    "why would he claim he was born in Kenya when he was writing an autobiography that mentions being born in Hawaii? "

    Hey, it takes practice to get good at lying, especially when making sure your claims are consistent. He was a novice back then.

  • Killazontherun||

    Never mind you lying piece of shit.

    I bought an e-book, converted to pdf to do an easy search of the word Hawaii. 71 mentions of Hawaii, and he never mentions being born there.

    However, he talks about his grandpa a lot. The sad story of his grand pa going blind.

    I remember how, the first time I took
    her back to Hawaii, Gramps nudged my ribs and said Michelle was quite “a looker.”

  • Tulpa the White||

    I was born in Illinois. If I wrote an autobiography and you did a search for "Illinois", you probably wouldn't find the page where I talk about where I was born, because I'd say the city name, not the state.

  • Killazontherun||

    I ran a check under 'born' (46 instances) before I wrote the above just to cover my ass. There isn't a reference to his birth as the gentleman above claims.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Better check "birth" too, along with dozens of other possible formulations.

    Or you could read the book.

  • Killazontherun||

    You're not making any sense as usual, Tulpa. 'Honolulu','Hawaii' and 'born' cover all possible relevant set in checking the veracity of the above claim. To read it as you suggest would mean losing focus on the purpose of the search, to check a claim, and thus likely to miss it if it was even there. Why are you so dense, btw?

  • Tulpa the White||

    "I entered the world on a sunny day in Oahu."

    Part of my research involves machine extraction of information from natural language sources...it ain't easy. (Epi forgive me)

  • Killazontherun||

    That sentence is not there. I ran the search. I applaud you though for finding a set that utterly destroyed my statement above.

  • Tulpa the White||

    The point is there are dozens if not hundreds of ways of saying it. And that's assuming it's even said explicitly, rather than just being obvious when things stated pages apart are considered together. Like if my putative autobiography talked about my father driving to the hospital on I-90 and then three pages later says they passed through Loves Park and then four pages after that mentions my birth.

  • Paul.||

    If the details of his birth have to be cobbled together by statements made pages apart, doesn't that make his birth in hawaii the conspiracy, not terse other way around?

  • sloopyinca||

    I always assumed the book just said, "I was born a poor black child". Or was that another famous biographical work?

  • Tulpa the White||

    "This guy hates cans!"

  • IceTrey||

    "The Autobiography of Navin R. Johnson"

    It's just a phone book.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Or you could read the book.

    Don't do it man, you'll never get those hours back. Fuck.

  • Longtorso||

    why would he claim he was born in Kenya when he was writing an autobiography that mentions being born in Hawaii

    Because it's more likely he wrote the bio than he wrote, or even read, the book?

  • ||

    or he didn't actually know where he was born and discovered that fact during the course of writing the book.

    Lots of plausible explanations here.

  • sloopyinca||

    Lots of plausible explanations here.

    Yeah, and the one thing that is part of every plausible explanation is that Obama is a mendacious scumbag that would say or do almost anything untrue or malicious to advance himself. For evidence of this, see every single campaign he has ran and his (rather expensive) concealment of his entire life from ages 18-30.

  • General Butt Naked||

    You know who else concealed their entire life from age 18-30?

  • sloopyinca||

    Neil Patrick Harris?

  • Banjos||

    Jesus H. Christ?

  • ||

    Superman?

  • Tulpa the White||

    Lots of plausible explanations here.

    Let me know when you find one.

    So far, the explanations you and SIV have been shoving out there are SNL birther parody material. (which they desperately need)

  • ||

    Let me know when you find one.

    Hey Tulpa why did the agent think Obama was born in Kenya?

    You lose.

  • ||

    So here’s my theory: Obama was born in Hawaii, but at some point in his life he considered it expedient to claim he was born in Kenya. In other words, the myth of the Kenyan birth was invented by Barack Obama himself.

    I posted this on another thread but it seems apropos here:

    I agree with the people who think this pitiful excuse for a Prez simply inflated his resume at every given opportunity and simply is getting tripped up in the wash. He reminds me of that freak show who claimed he was Sidney Poitier's son (Poitier never had a son), David Hampton, who was the subject of that Will Smith piece de resistance, Six Degrees of Separation.

    I really think, even though it makes the Obama Fellating Press Corpse totally incompetent and partisan, that this is designed to re-ignite Birfers, Freepers, and Coast to Coast nutjob conspiracy loons to distract from O's abysmal presidential record.

    It should also be noted that Gov. Jan Brewer vetoed legislation specifically designed to appeal to Birfer types. The idea of the bill is not without merit, as public officials should be thoroughly vetted, but it did smack of "Birferitis."

  • General Butt Naked||

    The way I look at it Groov is that we have an absolutely awful president that pursues policies that are terrible not only from a liberty perspective but a utilitarian one as well; why spin yarns about his birth place when there is so much more to rightly criticize. Fuck, the shit people come up with is more convoluted than Ken Shultz's justifying his Romney support.

    Not only that, but burrthizm just gives the Obama minions in the media justification to dismiss valid criticisms as the ravings of conspiratorial minded freaks. Yeah let's lump ourselves in with the joos/bildeberger/fema camp/illuminati crowd.

    Hell, he could have 5 secret gay muslim canadian fathers, but if his policy positions were the same as Ron Paul's I could give a whit.

  • Killazontherun||

    Not only that, but burrthizm just gives the Obama minions in the media justification to dismiss valid criticisms as the ravings of conspiratorial minded freaks.

    You're fear of them is the only power they have. A tipping point has been reached. The birthers can no longer be considered by an intellectually consistent person who is also paying attention to what's going on to be the problem. They didn't make up the fake narrative. Obama and his people did. The birthers may interpret the fake narrative more literally that you or I, but would you bet your career on them being wrong and you and I being right?

    The saddest part of all of this is, the country is still not ready for a black president, at least a liberal Democratic one, because the fourth estate refuses to do its job when vetting and critiquing one. Fortunately, they are losing their relevance.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I'm just saying how it is, really I could care less which piece of shit that ain't a champion for liberty holds the nation's highest office. I think, right or wrong, that when you throw your lot in with a bunch of paranoid freaks your good message gets conflated with their bad one.

  • Killazontherun||

    No, it no longer gets dismissed that easily. It was the brow beating of '08 that lead to this. If now is the time for proper vetting than so be it.

    You see what Tulpa is doing? He is worried how this might splash mud on Romney. I, like you, don't give a fuck about Romney or whether or not the Republican establishment comes out smelling like roses. I'd rather hang with the 'paranoid freaks' than have anything to do with those THIS SYSTEM finds to be respectable.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Hey man, I'm on your side; most of the people I know would classify me as paranoid freak. I just think the birth thing is the wrong thing to be paranoid about.

    I think Obama is just crafty enough to use this as a way to paint his critics as loons. I also think that he's not releasing more information just to fan the flames, as this bullshit is a distraction from minor things like the assassination of American citizens. Or the war on cancer patients waged by Mr.s Obama and Holder.

    Hell, he probably loves this shit. It makes his enemies seem crazy and deflects how horrible of a job he's done.

  • Tulpa the White||

    I'm unclear on the reason BO should release any personal information to birthers. As I said before, if I were prez and my opponents demanded my school or birth records I'd tell them to fuck off.

  • Killazontherun||

    There was time, the previous few generations at least, where scavenging through the records of politicians was a routine activity of the mainstream press. I recall a flurry of interest from them in the flight records of George H Bush from the 1980 campaign in regard to what they feared to be an 'October' surprise. Then it wasn't the lunatic fringe who spoke of those things, it was them. Not many years ago they pursued the records of his son with the same vehemence. Now only the lunatic fringe would give a damn about records. Funny that.

  • Killazontherun||

    I get that, and pretty much assumed we're on the same page. The thing that really sparked my interest in this is an excerpt from the Maraniss book where he interviews a friend of O's from his college days who spoke at length of Obama's contrived identity. To me, this interesting stuff. Would you not want to know what is going on in Nero's head if you were a Roman citizen? Empire burns, instead of playing the violin, he finds a photographer and tells the camera, hi there you. This is your lucky day. Now, go on, snap that photo. You know you wanna!

  • Tulpa the White||

    He is worried how this might splash mud on Romney.

    Not in the slightest. Romney will disavow it.

    It does reinforce the perception that Obama opponents are nutjobs, though.

  • Paul.||

    "why spin yarns
    about his birth place when there is so much more to rightly
    criticize."

    Easy. Because you're never going to get any MSM traction on criticizing anything he does as president. So the only thing you got left is to dig at the scab of disqualification from office. As a non-birther, this concept makes some sense.

  • PapayaSF||

    One reason he might have claimed Kenyan birth at one point: perhaps some college financial aid for foreign students? Of course his college records are sealed, and maybe this is one reason why.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I've heard this, but I also know a bunch of guys going to school from other countries and they don't have it easy. Most get no aid at all.

    A lot of programs give preference to Americans. And if there is a Kenyan student association, or whatever, you'd probably have to be right off the boat to get any cash.

  • Jerry||

    I'm pretty sure there is some exchange program (similar to Fulbright) that high-ranking government officials in Africa use to send their own kids to college in the U.S, paid for by the U.S.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Link or STFU.

  • Killazontherun||

    RTFA or STFU.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Can't RTFA until there's an FA to R.

  • Killazontherun||

    RTFA or STFU.

  • Amakudari||

    Aid as a foreign student, probably not.

    Aid as an American born in a Third World shithole, maybe, and I can see it being a merit on his application. Schools love boasting about campus diversity, and I guarantee you there aren't that many passable candidates born in Kenya.

    Assuming he said he was born in Kenya during his application, of course.

  • Tulpa the White||

    As I said before, there are a lot of moving parts here. It's like imagining that your morning toast came from a nuclear submarine.

  • Amakudari||

    I'm not making any firm assertions here. I'm just saying that it's a conceivable lie. There's no evidence for it -- and I think asking for his school records is kind of dick-ish -- but there are potential advantages.

    I'm only refuting the idea that someone saying he's an American born in the Third World would have no potential benefit to his application.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Holy shit you guys are grasping at straws.

    Native-born US citizens and foreign-born US citizens are treated identically for financial aid.

    Unless your claim is that BO isn't a US citizen at all, which... well, good luck with that one.

  • Amakudari||

    Federally, sure.

    But I do think that having a background being born in a crappy country would help a bit to coax more out of private aid.

    Also, FWIW, the Fulbright (not something similar to the Fulbright) does exist for foreign students, but it's mostly for graduate school.

  • Tulpa the White||

    The Fulbright is available to US students too, so I don't see the advantage in claiming to be a foreigner. Plus, I don't think anyone is claiming he was saying he was a foreign national when applying to college (though it has been a surprising couple of days around here).

  • General Butt Naked||

    In my experience, as noted above, with foreigners I know that go to school here getting aid is a huge pain in the ass for them.

    As of now, I'll take my anecdotes over someone else's "maybe he could of gotten a better deal as a Kenyan" until I see some numbers.

    There's a difference between informed speculation and grasping at straws.

  • Tulpa the White||

    That's what I've heard too, and while I obviously haven't personally experienced the PITA of getting aid as a foreign student, there are scads of fellowships and internships that are only available to US citizens. I've never heard of a US-based aid package that was only available to foreign nationals.

  • General Butt Naked||

    When my girlfriend was applying to grad schools she was flat-out told that being an American(and a woman) is a plus because she'd be more likely to get fellowship/grant moneys.

    She's in STEM so I don't know if it's the same situation for humanities.

  • Tulpa the White||

    A lot of the STEM fellowships are for national-security related fields, hence the citizenship requirement.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Yup, she actually worked briefly under a prof that got DARPA money.

  • Amakudari||

    Not saying it's an advantage, just that that's the federal program that pays for foreign students to study in the US. And there is one huge difference: the Fulbright funds educational exchange. That means Americans would get it to study abroad.

    It would not apply at all in Obama's case, as he would be American. I think people are getting confused on the difference between foreign-born and foreign. The former would, if anything at all, have an advantage as Americans with a unique background. The latter have to jump through hoops. (And I would know, as both my fiancée and I have been foreign students for graduate school.)

  • IceTrey||

    If he was foreign born he's not a US citizen. His mom was too young to pass on citizenship and his father was not a citizen.

  • Tulpa the White||

    He traveled in and out of the US many times before becoming powerful, so if your claim is that he's a noncitizen then you have to believe his passport is forged or the State Dept (from long before he was a political figure) didn't notice his HI birth certificate was forged.

  • Finchster||

    Mark Steyn had the same as Tim. Can't link right now, but look at his latest column.

  • ||

  • Finchster||

    Thanks, Joshua.

    When it comes to conspiracies, I'm an Occam's Razor man. The more obvious explanation of the variable first line in the eternally shifting sands of Obama's biography is that, rather than pretending to have been born in Hawaii, he's spent much of his life pretending to have been born in Kenya.

    After all, if your first book is an exploration of racial identity and has the working title "Journeys In Black And White," being born in Hawaii doesn't really help. It's entirely irrelevant to the twin pillars of contemporary black grievance – American slavery and European imperialism. To 99.99 percent of people, Hawaii is a luxury vacation destination and nothing else.

    Whereas Kenya puts you at the heart of what, in an otherwise notably orderly decolonization process by the British, was a bitter and violent struggle against the white man's rule. Cool! The composite chicks dig it, and the literary agents.
  • Tulpa the White||

    He's not an Occam's Razor man if he thinks this is anything more than a fuck-up by a blurb writer.

  • Killazontherun||

  • PapayaSF||

    You clearly know nothing about how the publishing industry works if you think a "blurb writer" writes an author's biography, and that an author could somehow miss, for 16 years, a glaring error in the first sentence.

  • Tulpa the White||

    I suppose you have credentials in the publishing industry? Not that it matters since you're an anonymous Internet persona (like me!) anyway.

  • Paul.||

    How many glaring biography errors exist mis-stating the author's country of birth that weren't corrected on a subsequent printing (provided there was one)?

  • PapayaSF||

    Yes, actually, I do. Author bios are almost always written by the author (or by someone else based on material provided by the author). They're always edited and proofread by one or two other people. If there are major changes, the author sees it again, and maybe the final version before it goes out. Finally, the author gets at least one copy of the final product.

  • BoscoH||

    And maybe at the time, he never considered that the truthiness of the story could eventually catch up with him.

    He will get a pass on this because everyone expects a d-bag to act like a d-bag. Nobody is that surprised.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I think there's a point to be made here somewhere about how truth and absolute truth are much more important to people on the right.

    I think the thing that really drives Birthers crazy about the left is that people on the left really don't care whether Obama was born in Kenya. It just doesn't matter to them.

    I think it drives me kinda nuts too that very few of the people who were gonna vote for Warpath Warren before? could give a rip if she falsely claimed to be a Native American.

    A lot of people on the left don't give a damn what the truth is--they're just voting against whatever the right wants anyway.

    In those cases, if we want to make progress, I think it's really important to make fun of the voters themselves. Make 'em feel the contradiction in their bones.

  • Len Bias||

    I agree. Distractions like the rule of law, constitutional muster and transparency only seem to matter when the GOP is in charge, and get in the way when the lefties run the show.

    I've yet to hear a lefty say he/she believes ObamaCare is constitutional, but I've heard plenty say it shouldn't be struck down.

  • PapayaSF||

    The ones I know think so, because to them, good=constitutional, and bad=unconstitutional.

  • Len Bias||

    I guess the two are one and the same. Both involve not caring about what the actual document itself says or Supreme Court precedent.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I think the thing that really drives Birthers the left crazy about the left birthers is that people on the left birthers really don't care whether Obama was born in Kenya America. It just doesn't matter to them.

    ...A lot of people on the left right don't give a damn what the truth is--they're just voting against whatever the right left wants anyway.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I've long argued around here that the partisans on both sides struggle to become the caricatures their opponents make them out to be.

  • ReformRealist||

    I don't agree. Some very good investigative journalists are lefties. You're conflating lefties with partisan Democrats. There are people on the left who have integrity and are consistent in their views. I've also seen people on the right show a lack of concern for the truth or justice. Just look back to the Bush years.

    Obama lying about his origins is bad (if he did), but whether he was born in Kenya or the US we should judge him by his record. If you thought he was a good President would you care if he was born in Kenya or the United States?

    In any case, I believe an amendement that allows naturalized citizens (especially those brought as kids) to run for the Presidency would help.

  • Tulpa the White||

    If you let him serve as president in violation of the Constitution (even a part you think is stupid) then you can kiss the rule of law goodbye.

    That said...there is NO evidence for him being born in Kenya or anywhere other than Hawaii.

  • ReformRealist||

    The rule of law has already been ignored on much larger issues recently.

    That should be our main focus.

  • ||

    You could say the same thing about a lot of right-wingers and WMDs and Iraq.

    A lot of the left was obsessed with the TRUTH when the was in Iraq was on. They were convinced that the war was based on lies, and could not understand how the crazy right didn't give a shit whether the justification was lies or not.

    I think the reality is that both sides usually ignore facts when they don't work in their side's favor. Most people on the right thought the war was just whether or not Saddam had WMDs, and most people on the left consider Obama American even if he happened to have missed the plane to Hawaii by a few hours.

  • KPres||

    Ahhh...so this is what Andrew Breitbart and his coroner were murdered over. I'd been wondering about that.

  • ||

    his coroner were murdered over.

    What?

  • ||

    oh

    http://rt.com/usa/news/coroner.....tbart-456/

    yeah I don't think I can go down that particular rabbit hole. The only exit out looks to be madness.

  • WWNGD?||

    Obama will say whatever needs to be said to get him ahead at the time. He is a slime ball con artist who conned his way into the highest office in the land.

  • Registration At Last!||

    " It also appears that Warren used this fake affiliation to further her career."

    Citation, please.

    (Or, more likely, when hell freezes over.)

  • PapayaSF||

    She promoted herself as Native American when law schools were desperate to prove themselves "diverse," and then stopped doing so when it could do her no good.

  • tarran||

    Dude,

    That's a lie; she did it to meet people like her. The fact she never got around to going to networking events was because she was sooo busy doing her philosophizing to lay the intellectual foundations for the Occupy movement. ;@

  • VG Zaytsev||

    That's a lie; she did it to meet people like her..

    People that lie about their ancestry?

  • General Butt Naked||

    Citation, please.

    Ummm, she didn't get her recipes published on the merits of her cooking, but rather that she was presenting an authentic Cherokee crab dip recipe. When I found out that, I fucking puked all over my pants. Jesus, I ate that shit and my white guilt compelled me to pretend to like it. Now I look like a goddamn fool so fuck you and fuck the horse you rode in on. Fucking ersatz Tonto.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Who could've known that crab omelets weren't authentic Cherokee Pow Wow Chow?

  • PapayaSF||

    The mayonnaise was the most amusing anachronism.

  • Sevo||

    "(Or, more likely, when hell freezes over.)"

    Hope you have your ice-skates handy:
    "To make matters worse, there is a strong inference that Warren nonetheless used her “minority” status to obtain prestigious law teaching positions at several Ivy League universities under affirmative action."
    There's more:
    Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/23934.....k8bReDG.99

  • ||

    So here’s my theory: Obama was born in Hawaii, but at some point in his life he considered it expedient to claim he was born in Kenya.

    I'll wager $50 this little gem was made up by Obama himself to impress a girl.

  • mauricegirodias||

    It helps to understand publishing in the early '90s a bit. Back then, the memoir was everything. The more Oprah, the better. And being a Kenyan-born author was gonna bring in the bucks better than Hawaii.

    /Memoirs are still big, but the absolute craze ended either when the New York Times Magazine did a piece on the huge money spent on the incredible "lives" of folks who'd, you know, gone to Iowa for MFAs at 23. Or when Heather Havrilesky, then at Suck, did a piece about getting her mom to make dad sleep with her, after The Kiss, or James Frey. Actually, it was mostly over by James Frey.

  • sticks||

    Since no one else has said it. I'll say it. Pow Wow Chow is racist!

  • IceTrey||

    Here's a funny thing or maybe strange. His bio says he is African-American and born in Kenya. The problem is, if he really was born in Kenya he is not an American at all! His mother was 18 when he was born but under the law at that time she would have had to have been 19 to pass on her citizenship.

  • Tulpa the White||

    The "-American" appelation is used for foreign-born immigrants too, not just native born citizens.

    The overwhelming majority of "African-Americans" have no foreign ancestors among their recent ancestors, so that's probably why we automatically assume African-American means native born.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I got a buddy from Libya , and I always refer to him as African-American just to be safe.

  • IceTrey||

    If he was born in Kenya he is not a naturalized immigrant he's an illegal alien.

  • Tulpa the White||

    With a forged passport and/or a forged birth certificate that the 1970s State Department couldn't tell was forged.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I once saw a news show where the anchor referred to Nelson Mandela as "African-American", as in "Nelson Mandela, South Africa's first African-American president.."

    I'm sure this all came as a big shock to Mr. Mandela.

  • SIV||

    Maybe apocryphal butI heard Mrs' Jay Leno was speaking at some event in South Africa and referred to a unity of "white Africans and African-American Africans" in a politically-correct confusion as to the acceptability of the term "Black Africans".

  • SIV||

    5 pages of Google search results heard variations on a similar anecdote.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I believe that it has probably happened a lot. People on teevee say shit trying to be all sensitive and correct without stopping to realize that they're speaking nonsense.

    Not to mention that people on teevee are notoriously stoopid.

  • Mensan||

    This reminds me of an amusing exchange I witnessed during a public speaking class in college. One of my classmates, a young white man who had been born and raised in Namibia, gave a speech about his recently completed journey to become a naturalized U.S. citizen. He said that he was now officially an African-American. Several of the black students took exception to his use of the phrase, but the strongest objections came from a young black man from the Bahamas. After a little back and forth, the black man revealed that he was not a U.S. citizen, but a resident alien, yet he still insisted that he was African-American, and that the white man was not.

  • SFC B||

    In college a rugby teammate of mine was a white guy from South Africa. He was the only South African on campus so he was the representative of SA on the campus' "African Student Union" group (or whatever it called itself).

    The other students didn't have an issue with it, but apparently the professor who was the group's sponsor threw a hissy fit.

  • ||

    The other students not caring but the professor freaking out... ah, how would people know what to think without professional grievancemongers telling them?

  • Tulpa the White||

    Technically he's a European-African-American...

  • Mensan||

    I thought the amusing part was that the Bahamian was insisting that he was an African-American despite being neither African nor American.

  • Bam!||

    That wasn't just a news show: That was CNN!

  • ||

    I forget which Olympics this was, but some American reporter referred to a black British athlete as African-American, to which he responded that he wasn't American. After being corrected the reporter still kept with the "African-American" bit, seemingly totally incapable of listening to what this guy actually wanted to be referred to as. Just kept repeating the PC incantation like it was magic.

  • SIV||

    Former Reason intern James Taranto suggested the possibility that Barack Obama wasn't lying if he mistakenly believed he was born in Kenya.

    I could imagine the Dunhams truthfully introduced their grandchild-0f-color as "his father was Kenyan" and if someone mistakenly assumed that made the boy a Kenyan national (such as the admissions office at Punahou school)they might not be so quick to correct the error particularly if it might void an offer of enrollment and scholarships.

  • Tulpa the White||

    I can imagine a blurb writer fucked up.

    See how much simpler my imagination is?

  • SIV||

    Nobody cares what you think.

  • sloopyinca||

    SIV, that's an horrible thing to say. An horrible thing.

  • Tulpa the White||

    I've got a human encyclopedia, Alex Trebek, on my side.

    Who've you got?

  • sloopyinca||

    Wouldn't he be an human encyclopædia?

  • Tulpa the White||

    I'm not giving you the satisfaction.

  • sloopyinca||

    I'm not giving you the satisfaction.

    Too late, Tulpa.

  • Tulpa the White||

    WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO THE WALL!!!

  • Tulpa the White||

    Good.. no one should care what an anonymous Internet commentor thinks. They should evaluate every argument based on its content, not its origin.

    Of course, that's going to be a problem for your argument.

  • SIV||

    My hypothetical scenario offers a charitable explanation for any future revelations of Obama self-identifying as "Kenyan-born" in the past. One in which he wasn't lying to gain some advantage.

  • Tulpa the White||

    In other words you're assuming the conclusion (ie, that it will come out that he really did self-identify as Kenyan-born).

    We in the industry call that "begging the question".

  • Paul.||

    Hmm, I thought it was "towing the lion"?

  • Killazontherun||

    You have a detailed description from one of the clients of the agent above in TC's post. If you read the article he cites you will find she applied it as a SOP every time he dealt with her. The prevailing evidence of this report, the '91 info had not been changed but recycled later, and was up on the website until '07 when it was quietly changed like a lot of things then (look up data base missing Supreme court case citings natural born citizen -- here I'll help -- http://www.americanthinker.com.....ppear.html

    The preponderance of evidence strongly suggest the manipulator here is Obama, and the agent lied for her former client.

  • Tulpa the White||

    The Boman stuff is he-said-she-said and not even surefire assuming he's telling the truth. Maybe he wrote his bios in a way the pamphlet writers liked and BO didn't? I'd think it's less plausible to claim that the pamphlet people copied the author's bio verbatim.

    And the link you give is for a completely different webpage with no relation to the alleged 2007 edit. Not sure what you're trying to prove there, other than that things change on the Internet sometimes.

  • Killazontherun||

    Are you having a stroke that prevents you from noticing transitions or from connecting dots?

  • Tulpa the White||

    My training as a mathematician makes me wary of connecting dots.

  • Killazontherun||

    I'd assume you would say that, but it does suggest reduced cognitive functionality due to some form of trauma nonetheless that you are unable to see the similarity of happenstance I pointed to above.

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    Not to mention his SSN being from CT.


    Where his SSN is from would depend on where he was living at the time of applying for a Social Security Card.

    Babies weren't instantly registered in 1960. Universal automatic registration of newborns did not start until the 70s or 80s. Before that no one got a SS Card until they got their first job.

    And what evidence do you actually have that "his SSN...[is]...from CT"?

  • General Butt Naked||

    And what evidence do you actually have that "his SSN...[is]...from CT"?

    Larry the Cable Guy did a bit on it, that's pretty much iron-clad.

  • Mensan||

    Until 2011, SSN was issued based on ZIP code. Obama's SSN corresponds to a Connecticut ZIP code.
    06814 = Danbury, CT
    96814 = Honolulu, HI
    That looks an awful lot like a typo to me.

  • sloopyinca||

    OK. By itself, it could be "a coincidence." But if one person has this many coincidences surrounding their birth...coincidences that are rarely, if ever, chronicled to have happened to other people...then I'm gonna have to call shenanigans.

    It's either a long series of coincidences (statistically unlikely to say the least), or a concerted effort to manufacture a history to fit a newly-needed narrative.

    Oh, and if these were all just coincidences, why the need to fight for their suppression in the courts, why the need to refuse release of personal and collegiate records and why the need to hide passport and Selective Service information from public view?

  • Tulpa the White||

    ZIP codes have 5 digits while SSN prefixes only have 3, so they can't be pinpointed that precisely to a geographic location. My understanding was that the prefixes are allocated for an entire state. Plus, there are 45 zip codes that are off by one digit from 96814, so it's likely that most states contain one of them.

    And of course, if they screwed up the mailing address, how did BO ever get his SS card?

    Not that any of this matters; requesting that it be sent to a CT address doesn't make it more likely he wasn't born in HI. Even if he wasn't born there, why wouldn't they have requested it from HI?

  • Mensan||

    According to www.socialsecurity.gov:

    The first three (3) digits of a person's social security number are determined by the ZIP Code of the mailing address shown on the application for a social security number.
  • Michael Hihn||

    Thanks, Tim for such a non-hysterical rendering. But I have one question. I won't do ad hominem on Obama either, but ....might a Kenyan Black have a higher rank than an American Black in that school's diversity standards?

    I do find it insightful that the Kenyan birth was most likely invented by the President for some reason.
    Keep in mind, that he will be a Kenyan, unless and until every Birther in America PERSONALLY sees the original, long form, birth certificate. Bet on it.

  • Tulpa the White||

    might a Kenyan Black have a higher rank than an American Black in that school's diversity standards?

    Don't know about Harvard personally, but the selective schools I've been involved with are more desperate for American minorities than foreign ones.

    There are also a shitload more financial aid and govt job opportunities for citizens than non-citizens. (though I'm not sure if our resident birthers have moved on to claiming BO isn't even a citizen)

  • SIV||

    African-Africans were in much shorter supply when Obama was attending prep and undergrad schools. His dual nature kind of makes him a "two-fer" to boot.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Moldavian-Laotians are in extremely short supply too, but guess what, they don't get special consideration for financial aid or admissions.

    And are you now claiming that BO isn't even a citizen? Because otherwise he wouldn't be considered an "African African".

  • SIV||

    African-American AND African, hence a "two-fer".

    Laotians are handicapped being low achieving members of the discriminated-against-in-college-admissions political/racial category known as Asians.

  • Tulpa the White||

    This isn't really a smoking gun, since there's the possibility that the bios in the pamphlet were not the same as the bios submitted in the proposal. I'd be surprised if they were never edited/massaged after submission.

    And just because one author never had the blurbers insert material into his pamphlet bio doesn't mean they never inserted material.

  • 3D Games||

    Play free 3D Games online on 3DGames77.com!

  • Lyle||

    When is Obama going to talk to the nation about this?

  • JimDee||

    Any country that buys a Hawaiian birth certificate signed by "U.K.L. Lee" deserves the government it gets.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog.....ertificate

  • db||

    That's pretty hilarious.

  • JimDee||

    I can hear the guffaws in the Oval Office now.

  • sloopyinca||

    If it were just the birth certificate thing, I would probably believe him. Or if it were just the unusual fact that he has a Connecticut SSN number with having never once lived there, I would probably believe him. Or if it was just his grandmother saying she was at his birth in Kenya, I could dismiss it as an old person being confused. Or if the current administration just blocked the records of his Selective Service Registration, I would likely believe him. Or if he merely hid his college records and scrubbed every part of his life up until he appeared on the Chicago political landscape 10 or so years ago, I could believe him. Or if it were just this "literary flub" by an editor that went against her own printed policy, I would dismiss it.

    Sure, coincidences happen. But this many oddities and contradictions, coupled with his concerted effort to hide and scrub the world of any records pertaining to his youth and young adulthood lead me to believe the man is not who he (presently) says he is.

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    To which I say, if the Clinton machine was unable to dig up anything on him there really can't be too much.

    Too which my other personality replies, "What the fuck does B. Hussein Obama have on the Clintons that have made them afraid to expose him?"

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    The fact is that if the birthers claims are true we are dealing with a conspiracy on a simply staggering scale.

    We are dealing not just with fraud and perjury by BHO himself but also with malfeasance by hundreds if not thousands of officials from the Hawaii Health Department to the State Department and state government agencies in between.

  • sloopyinca||

    How do you figure? It would take the head official at the Hawaii Health Department to craft a policy that certain records are not to be disturbed unless under direct order. He could cite privacy reasons and the injunction filed by the Obama 2008 campaign. (This is essentially what happened)

    Those records weren't commonly referenced, since the overwhelming % of requests were for COLB's that were much more current and maintained in a computer archive.

    As far as the SSN records, they were released (on his tax returns, which are part of required disclosure). The Selective Service Registration records requests were held up in court until after Obama's swearing-in. Once in office, he could simply issue an executive order denying a request for any candidate's records, which would cover his.

    The rest of it was simply a matter of contacting the schools he went to and requesting that they not release any information, under threat of lawsuit, and that those records remained sealed.

    As far as the scrubbing of public domain info, like speeches where his Kenyan birth/heritage were discussed, or the "literary flub" that went uncorrected for 16+ years but was changed right after he announced his run for the WH, that stuff is pretty easy when you have the Chicago political machine behind you.

  • Tulpa the White||

    BO must have had a passport all these years. Your contention requires that either (a) he was clandestinely naturalized as a child, (b) it's forged, or (c) the State Dept (in the 1970s/1980s, not the current one) didn't notice his BC was forged when they issued it.

  • ||

    I've never given much credence to the birther theory, but ...

    Maybe Obama's mother gave birth to him in Kenya, then flew to Hawaii, had herself driven to the hospital, and claimed she gave birth on the plane or in the ambulence, so she could get him a US birth certificate. Perhaps she wanted to make sure there was no question about his US citizenship, or didn't want to deal with having to get a foreign registration of live birth or whatever.

  • ||

    On a side note ... te Trig-birthers are always saying it's not believable that Sarah Palin would get on an aircraft and fly 12 hours back to Alaska in labor to give birth in Alaska.

  • Mo||

    Honolulu to Nairobi is between 31 hours to 54 hours total with 2 stops. And that's today. I'm guessing back in the 60s, it took significantly longer and required more stops.

  • Tulpa the White||

    And smuggled him through customs in a carry on bag, I guess?

  • Kreel Sarloo||

    There's no customs between flights from the lower 48 to Alaska.

  • ||

    What you should really be asking is, what makes anyone think she even went to Kenya around the time Obama was born? Didn't she meet her husband, get married and give birth, while studying in the US ?

    Did she ever live in Kenya at all?

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