Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman & The Decline of Racism & Violence in America

Trayvon Martin will not go gently into that good night, and the poor kid’s ghost can and will haunt us, it seems, until justice is done.

His shooter, the neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman, has been arrested and charged with second-degree murder, so the wheels of the legal system, however slowly and imperfectly, are grinding forward.

But we can’t shake the death of 17-year-old Trayvon. That’s partly because it was senseless and avoidable. And also in part because his shooting is being ridden like Seabiscuit by everyone to benefit their respective political sides and agendas.

Figures such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton want to use the Martin shooting to say that when it comes to race, little to nothing has changed in America over the past 20, 30, or 50 years. Gun control advocates want to say that the shooting proves that America is awash in the blood of gun violence egged on by Second Amendment fundamentalists.

But neither of those things is true.

While there’s still a lot of work to be done, race relations are getting better, as is clear from the majority of black, white, Latino, and other respondents in poll after poll. Electing Barack Obama as president doesn’t give us a free pass on the nation’s ugly history, but it’s a pretty good indicator that things aren’t the way they used to be.

And gun violence in every way is way down from where it was just a few decades ago, when most states and localities started to allow more people to own and carry guns. That’s true even in Florida, which liberalized its gun laws years ago, leading people to worry it would become “the Gunshine State.” In fact, Florida’s death rate from guns is average for the country.

I’m saddened by Trayvon Martin’s death. I don’t think that George Zimmerman should have pursued him and confronted him after calling the cops.

But I also think that we can only negatively compound the tragedy if we insist on making it embody trends that are actually moving in positive directions.

About 2 minutes.

Produced by Joshua Swain. Camera by Jim Epstein. Written by Nick Gillespie and Kennedy, who also hosts.

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  • ||

    Can't watch the video if it's private...

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I don't think that George Zimmerman should have pursued him and confronted him after calling the cops.

    OBJECTION! Assumes facts not in evidence.

    What will always be evident, however, is that people will prejudge other people based on their appearance or perceived attitude or some other outward criteria. Man, woman, black, brown, red, white, yellow, old, young, gay, straight, fat, fit, tall, short or any other grouping you can think of. Our experience with members of any group will shape our perception of the group as a whole. It's an innate defense mechanism that we won't tamp down easily.

  • TELLMOFF||

    Trayvon was angry that he was racially profiled by Zimmerman. He punched him in the nose, jumped on top of him, and tried to grab his gun. Zimmerman had just as much right to be carrying a gun as any police officer. I have been confronted on other people's property and have explained my presence without attacking them.

  • plu1959||

    OBJECTION! Assumes facts not in evidence.

    Get outta my head, FoE!

    Anyways, sometimes I think H&R goes overboard in its periodic efforts to demonstrate that libertarians are not racists, even though we're against AA.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Against Alcoholics Anonymous? Racist!

  • Copernicus||

    Fist of Etiquette|4.24.12 @ 11:53AM
    "OBJECTION! Assumes facts not in evidence."

    and then you say:

    "What will always be evident, however,..."

    Seems you are guilty of the same sin. Easy to do though. Something about opinions, assholes, and the commonality of stinkiness.

  • SukieTawdry||

    Telling Zimmerman "we don't need you to do that" is not the same thing as telling him to stay away. This Kennedy chick grates.

  • o3||

    pendantic boar is boring

  • ||

    Boar?!?!?!

    Where?

  • R C Dean||

    Well, I know I'm bored.

  • SugarFree||

    Everyone have their confirmation bias in place? OK... GO!

  • ||

    So, what's your take on the latest episode of GoT?

  • SugarFree||

    For the most part, the nude scenes need better looking chicks.

    On a more serious note, I think they are spending too much time reinforcing character traits that are already established. We know Littlefinger is a conniving shit. We don't need 17 scenes of him talking to himself about what a conniving shit he is. Same with Joffery. If the audience don't know he's a psychopath by now, nothing is going to save them at this point.

  • ||

    I agree about Littlefinger, disagree about Joffrey. George RR used scenes of Joffrey murdering cats to show what a little monster he is, HBO uses sex torture. Both are effective, but one has tits.

  • ||

    If I recall, in the books, Martin really drives home how much of a shit Joffrey is. Though he also does the same for Littlefinger.

  • ||

    He doesn't make it as explicit for Littlefinger, at least not yet. He does a bit of that for the 4th book.

  • ||

    It's like HBO says "we need lots of sex, but if we use mediocre women, no one can accuse us of exploitation! WINNING!"

  • ||

    If you guys are complaining about the GoT wenches, do yourselves a favor and do. not. watch. Girls. My god those sex scenes are harrowing. Why do I do this to myself? That show is like Jezebel come to life.

  • ||

    Actually Jezebel has been complaining that Girls is too white: http://jezebel.com/5903382/why.....s-on-girls

  • ||

    Of course they are. I'm surprised they aren't also bitching that there aren't enough handicapable, genderfluid Wiccans represented.

  • ||

    Saccharin Man has filled us in but good on the Girls skinny. Oddly, that is exactly how he described the sex scenes.

  • ||

    I read an interview where one of the writers from that show said that sex is a political act, and that can't be denied. No thanks, Dags. I'll spend the time punching myself in the balls instead.

  • $öç íñδ√ Sparky||

    Oh please, I'm betting you were going to do that anyway.

  • Ice Nine||

    The guy who writes Tyrion's dialogue needs to get an Emmy.

  • Virginian||

    An awful lot of it is from the books. If you haven't read them, I highly recommend them. It's hard to do an epic fantasy series that deconstructs and simultaneously plays it straight, but he manages.

    I think I'm going to go read it again.

  • Ice Nine||

    Oh yeah, and, coolest character in the show: Bronn.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Which one is Bronn?

  • ||

    Bronn is Tyrion's sidekick, the dude who defended him in the trial by combat in the Eyrie. They're going to have a spin-off buddy comedy.

  • ||

    It's called Blood Brothers. I can't wait.

  • ||

    Bronn line of the week: "There's no cure for being a cunt."

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Okay then, he is pretty cool.

  • SteakFury||

    They are going to lose me if we don't start seeing more naked Daenerys.

  • o3||

    yep got mine soo - please 'splain away the persistent othering of obama by political opinion leaders if not racism. >also, show ur work

  • R C Dean||

    Need examples of "othering" of Obama by "political opinion leaders."

    Show your work.

  • ||

    You shouldn't respond to Mary, RC. It's what she wants.

  • o3||

    orrin aint mary...sherlock

  • ||

    Sure, Mary. Whatever you say.

  • o3||

    oh and RC - please see birthers et al

  • R C Dean||

    "opinion leaders"?

    "othering"?

    Still not getting it.

  • tarran||

    How dare you microagress against the reality-challenged RC-Dean!

  • ||

    HI MISS MARY

  • o3||

    i'll get you...and ur lil dog too!

  • ||

    'splain away? Fuck obama.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I'm sorry, I'm ignoring all discussion about the race problem in the U.S., as I was informed most eloquently that we'd be post-race once Obama was elected. Since he's done nothing else of value at all, I figure that must be what he's focused on.

  • ||

    What, you've forgotten this horrible War on Ze Wimmins? You're slipping, Pro'L Dib.

  • Pro Libertate||

    That was solved when Hillary Clinton joined with the Hopeful One in a glorious sexual union.

  • ||

    I'm glad I'm pro-stone burners, since that just took my eyesight away. I have procedure scheduled for next week. I need you to be my eyes now, Pro'L Dib.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I didn't mean they had sex. I meant they unified the genders and the races. Kind of like an Atreides unifying with some sandtrout.

  • ||

    I think you did. I think you went Full Metal Harkonnen on me Pro'L Dib. And not me personally. Sandtrout wouldn't join with these two. Hillary retains too much water.

  • ||

    Coincidentally, "sandtrout" is Bill's nickname for her vag.

  • ||

    Coincidentally, "sandtrout" is Bill's nickname for her vag.

    Hillary's pet name for littler Bill is "Sardukaur". I have this on good authority.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Don't take my analogy too far. As neither is remotely a Kwittheshitz Hadenough, they'd never be able to survive the transformation. In fact, neither could survive the gom jabbar.

    Though I suspect that Clinton may be Baron Harkonnen in disguise.

  • ||

    Though I suspect that Clinton may be Baron Harkonnen in disguise.

    More of a Feyd Rautha. Even Bill is not that depraved.

  • Coeus||

  • Coeus||

    Ok, seriously. Did URKOBOLD make these?

  • wareagle||

    since we're still talking about race, looks like His Magnificence screwed that pooch, too.

  • Pro Libertate||

    No, that's only Fox News. Everyone else is still hugging in harmony.

  • wareagle||

    how's that working out?

  • Pro Libertate||

    Very harmoniously.

  • wareagle||

    kumbaya

  • Pro Libertate||

    On each American's deathbed, we will receive total consciousness. So at least we have that going for us.

  • Dan Bongard||

    Thank you for using your psychic powers to determine Zimmerman pursued and confronted Martin. I was worried I would have to wait for actual evidence of that to be presented.

  • o3||

    well if nancy grace doesnt have to wait...

  • Dan Bongard||

    That was probably pretty witty, but since I don't know who Nancy Grace is it kind of fell flat.

  • Ramjet||

    I wish I could unknow Nancy Grace.

  • BakedPenguin||

    If you are a straight man, never, ever look at Nancy Grace's underling Velez-Mitchell. The sight will haunt you for weeks.

  • ||

    Yeah, I've been meaning to have a word with you about that. IF there ever was a hate crime...

  • BakedPenguin||

    At least I didn't link to any more pictures of that horrifying sight. I had to do it once so everyone could understand the terror.

  • Jerryskids||

    Since I no longer bother with the comprehension when reading anything about this case, I feel free to make this comment:

    the wheels of the legal system, however slowly and imperfectly, are grinding forward

    That's not how grinding wheels work.

  • d||

    WTF is with the requirement to get an account?

    Oh, and, yeah, I didn't know Kennedy was psychic either. So multi-talented!

  • R||

    It was this or have every single thread covered in a mountain of troll shit.

  • Tman||

    What drives me crazy about this story is that there is nothing special about it at all. There are like 20 murders a day related to guns in the US, and all have of them have various racial/poverty/domestic/political angles that exploited properly would have the same OUTRAGEOUS OUTRAGE factor as this one.

    But no, media freakout over one murder.

  • David_TheMan||

    Yep there are murders everyday where a person kills someone in questionable circumstances and then admits it to the police amid conflicting eye witness accounts and doesn't get charged.

  • Coeus||

    Conflicting? From what I've heard the eye witness accounts all match.

  • David_TheMan||

    From what I've heard the police say one eye witness identified trayvon beating zimmerman and another witness says they saw Zimmerman straddling Trayvon.

    http://www.newser.com/story/14.....ayvon.html

  • Coeus||

    Mary Cutcher and her roommate say they went outside after hearing shots fired

    Sorry, try again. No conflict there.

  • David_TheMan||

    Mary Cutcher and her roommate say they went outside after hearing shots fired and spotted Zimmerman on top of Martin, "straddling the body, basically a foot on both sides of Trayvon's body, and his hands pressed on his back," Cutcher told MSNBC, adding: "Zimmerman never turned him over or tried to help him or CPR or anything."

    --
    Yes there is a conflict when they also they they heard Trayvon yelling.

    You may not like it but that is on you

  • Coeus||

    So the people who saw the yelling say it was Zimmerman, and some people who didn't see it say they think it was Martin. Not seeing a conflict in the eyewitness accounts.

  • David_TheMan||

    You mean the 1 person who saw a scuffle and only saw clothing because it was so dark and the police concluded was Zimmerman before going home.

    Over the people who actually saw Zimmerman straddled over a person and claim they heard Trayvon yelling.

    Sounds like you want to believe the evidence that supports your side, and want to disregard anything that doesn't fit your story of Trayvon getting what he deserved.

  • Azathoth!!||

    1 person, 'John', gave a close up account. He said Martin was on Zimmerman and it was Martin calling out.

    Kutcher was in her house during all this and described a guy in white on top of 'something' during her 911 call. She did not see anything like what's shes describing now.

    Zimmerman, for what it's worth, was wearing red.

    Her first revision was to 'the bigger guy' being on top of the 'smaller guy' as well as making inferences about who was on the bottom based on the pitch of the voice of the person screaming. This fell apart when it came out that the 'bigger guy' was Trayvon.

    She is now telling a story that has far more detail than her recorded conversation with 911 would allow. Ergo, she's lying.

  • Azathoth!!||

    Zimmerman yelling out.

  • David_TheMan||

    Yes Kutcher was in her house. As for her version of the bigger guy, seeing that she actually saw the dead body and Zimmerman and said it was Zimmerman on top of the boy I don't understand how you can then say she was describing Trayvon on top of Zimmerman.

    Like I said to the other guy, you want to ignore the fact that you have conflicting witness statements to try to make the argument that only the person that supports Zimmerman is telling the truth, and that clearly tells me where your head is at.

    Fact is like I initially said, you have conflicting witness statements, a unarmed kid dead, and a guy saying he killed him in self defense. Demanding a trial is hardly injustice for Zimmerman.

  • Coeus||

    Like I said to the other guy, you want to ignore the fact that you have conflicting witness statements to try to make the argument that only the person that supports Zimmerman is telling the truth, and that clearly tells me where your head is at.

    Cute, but complete bullshit. Myself, I was initially convinced that there was something shady going on with the case (a site search of my comments would confirm this). As more information came out, I realized that I had been repeatedly lied to by the media.

    You seem to have picked a "side", so I can see your confusion at someone looking objectively on what we know.

    Fact is, there is nothing conflicting about the stories except the account of who was yelling. Of course Martin was on the ground after the shot, he was fucking shot to death. That you keep bringing it up like it conflicts with any other story indicates dishonesty on your part. The conflict about who was yelling has one person who didn't see it (i.e. not an eyewitness) vs someone who did. I see no conflict in the statements of eyewitnesses.

  • David_TheMan||

    I haven't picked any side except to say there is clearly room to try Zimmerman and make him defend his actions.

    You seem to think that this situation is a attack on your and that no crime actually happened. Then you ignore or outright lie about there actually being a dispute regarding the events that occurred.

    As for you statement of eye witnesses, no one saw the start of the fight or when the trigger was pulled. We have different claims of who was yelling, and different claims of where each respective person was.

    I see you keep trying to ignore that

  • Coeus||

    You seem to think that this situation is a attack on your

    No, I think you're being deliberately dishonest about the facts. I have stated as much. How does that translate to an attack on me?

    Then you ignore or outright lie about there actually being a dispute regarding the events that occurred.

    Again, you are attributing things to me with no basis. What lie?

    As for you statement of eye witnesses, no one saw the start of the fight or when the trigger was pulled. We have different claims of who was yelling, and different claims of where each respective person was.

    For the last time, there is no conflict except for who was yelling. One person says they saw Zimmerman on the ground before the shooting, and one says they saw Martin on the ground after the shooting. As for who was yelling, I'm going with the eyewitness account, as opposed to the account where someone just heard it and guessed.

  • Coeus||

    (cont.)

    I would think someone such as yourself (i.e. one who wants to argue the facts of the case) would be aware of that fact. That you continue say it, despite it being pointed out several times in various ways, would indicate that you are deliberately lying. And unless you knew one or both of the people being discussed, I can see no reason for this behavior outside of you picking a "side", and defending it regardless of the facts. That you accused me of picking a "side" is merely confirmation of your mental state.

    I see you keep trying to ignore that

    I have ignored nothing, and in fact have repeatedly pointed out that there was no dispute between what was seen. I am merely stating that the only eyewitness to the yelling (as apposed to someone who heard it and guessed) stated that it was Zimmerman yelling. There is no conflict between what was reported as seen by the witnesses.

  • d||

    I also wonder what her psychic intuition tells her about the (recently re-appearing) cuts and scrapes to the back of Zimmerman's head.

    And why didn't she stress that he is Hispanic? Would have been useful to combat the "racial profiling" rhetoric (not that Hispanics can't be racist -- witness "La Raza" -- but it would be less plausible to claim that if his alleged whiteness were played down a little bit).

  • wareagle||

    on the victim scale, black trumps Hispanic. In this narrative, we learned a new term - white Hispanic, because as everyone knows there are so many other kinds. Yes, some from the Dominican and Cuba look black but if "hispanic-latino" were not a Census check block, the vast majority would be self-identifying as white.

  • Coeus||

    In this narrative, we learned a new term - white Hispanic

    Oldest google news result for "white hispanic".
    March 28, 2012.

  • d||

    Yeah, they're "white"...except when they are not; when it comes time to play the affirmative action/victim card. I would say Zimmerman looks about as white as Obama, which is to say, not so much.

    Most Hispanics are not in fact "white" (whatever that means), but rather they are "mixed" (mestizo) due to the mixed-race relationships that produced the Central and South American population that we know today (I know this gets in the way of the myth that the Spanish "killed off" all of the natives, rather than the truth, which is that they interbred with those who survived the small pox, or whatever, but I digress).

    Only a few Hispanics are even close to being "pure Spanish" (not that that is something to celebrate; I'd rather be "pure Mayan").

    Hence, Zimmerman is not "white". QE-fuckin'-D.

  • ||

    Finally! A story on the Martin-Zimmerman case!

  • Fat Man & Little Boy||

    "Trayvon Martin will not go gently into that good night, and the poor kid's ghost can and will haunt us, it seems, until justice is done."

    Who's to say it wasn't?

  • ThemAPPLEs||

    That's food for thought.

  • Gerholdt||

    MOBILE, Ala. -- On Saturday, the Mobile Police Department answered a riot call that led them to the intersection of Delmar Drive and Pleasant Valley. Police arrived too late to witness the event but did find a bloody, beaten victim, Matthew Owens. Owens was rushed to a nearby hospital, University of South Alabama's Medical Center, where he was stabilized and later placed in the intensive care unit.

    According to a local news outlet, WKRG, there were several witnesses to the beating, including the victim's sister Ashley Parker. Parker says the beating occurred after her brother asked some teenagers to stop blocking the traffic in front of his house with their basketball game. The angry teenagers left but returned with three to four carloads of adults, say witnesses, returned shortly armed with weapons to confront Owens.

    Owens was quickly overwhelmed by the mob and beaten in the front yard of his home on Delmar. According to WKRG, the sister said she saw pipes, brass knuckles, even spray paint cans used as weapons. According to Parker, one woman said to her after the beating, "Now this is justice for Trayvon," referring to the 17-year-old shot by George Zimmerman on Feb. 26 in Sanford, Fla. Owens is white; witnesses say the alleged attackers are black.

    Owens has brain and head injuries from the beating. His sister said she is in fear for her family and prays that her brother heals soon.
    It did not say whether the attackers were wearing white hoodies.

  • R C Dean||

    And people wonder why I have a handgun with a high-capacity magazine.

  • Fat Man & Little Boy||

    The funny part is, that the potential are vastly outnumbered and under armed.

  • Fat Man & Little Boy||

    potntial "rioters"

  • wareagle||

    read that arrests are imminent. Outrage, however, is not.

  • radar||

    Wow - looked that up on the map because I used to go to Mobile frequently for work a few years back, and that's a fairly nice area maybe a mile or so from the store location I'd go to. Not the place you'd expect something like that to happen at all.

  • Coeus||

    Odd how there are no mentions of the victim's or perpetrator's race.

  • Jeff||

    Owens is white; witnesses say the alleged attackers are black.

    Odd how there is a mention of both.

  • Concerned Citizen||

    Don't get between a nigga and his basketball.

  • Coeus||

    You're right. My bad. I missed it. I think that the last month or so has been training me to look for it in the lead.

  • some guy666||

    Your point is?

  • some guy666||

    Your point is?

  • GILMORE||

    when it comes to race, little to nothing has changed in America over the past 20, 30, or 50 years...

    I beg to differ.

    The White Shadow (1978-81) doesn't even get re-runs. And that
    was some serious quality television.

    The White Shadow was the first ensemble drama on prime-time television with a predominantly African-American cast. With 54 episodes, it is the third-longest running drama with a predominantly African-American cast in the history of American prime-time television. Only Soul Food and The Wire have had more episodes

    I mean, can you imagine a show where the black characters are named Washingtion, Hollywood, and Coolidge, the italian guy is named Salami (who has a thing for impregnating older women), the jewish guy is Goldstein (who has a thing for being jewish), and the mexican guy is Gonzalez (who has a thing for stealing cars, joining gangs called, 'The Aztecs')... oh, and the coach is an Irish Catholic recovered-alcoholic. Oh, and it gets better! The entire premise of the show is to explore challenges of living in a multicultural society... WHICH ARE ALWAYS RESOLVED BY A BASKETBALL GAME~

    And it was supposed to be taken seriously

    That shit was funny even when it was contemporary! If broadcast now...it probably would generate a dozen different lawsuits from the NAACP, AIPAC, Italian American Lobby, La Raza...etc etc.... for 'lack of sensitivity'.

    They *totally* need to do a remake.

  • Harvard||

    Didn't hold a candle to Amos 'n Andy. "Lightening" was/still is, the funniest character on television.

  • David_TheMan||

    I don't think racism has declined but has become more internalized and quieted.

    Fact is though it will never be gone as long as humans live and if people stop harping about race they'll choose something else, so discussing racism seems and its rise or decline seems like a losing proposition.

    Violence though, that has gone down objectively and the liberal (true sense) gun laws that usually come in effect before the decrease in violence is something every community in the US should take note of.

  • Big Boy||

    What a piece of crap journalism.

    Didn't the writers keep up on the story? Didn't they follow the police testimony at the bail hearing? Didn't they see the bloody contemporaneous photo of Zimmerman's head injuries. It looks like they think the NY Times ans NBC News are the oracles of truth (supplemented by Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson).

    I expect more from REASON then this drivel.

  • sticks||

    drink?

  • The Bearded Hobbit||

    Don't mind if I do, thanks!

    ... Hobbit

  • Diomasach||

    http://www.examiner.com/articl.....-condition

    Glad to see racial violence is declining.

  • ||

    how refreshing. reason confronts hysteria with stats and logic.

    it would be wonderful if they would do the same with police violence (justified or not)

    you will note in article after article reporting on one or more incidents of police UOF's, they will NOT provide stats like in this article to support or refute (as they do here) the CLAIMs.

    i wish they would do the same.

    just the other day, a histrionic screed lamented the rising "police state" as supposedly exemplified by a couple of anecdotes.

    if we are seeing a rising police state, then we should be seeing a rise in police violence, disparately as compared to part I crimes, and on a per capita basis.

    does reason provide such statistical evidence?

    no

    does it exist?

    i have no idea, but then i am not making the extreme claim.

    there are a lot of people in the lay public who think crime is "out of control" to include violent crime

    the stats dispute that

    it's dropped tremendously over the last few decades.

    they hold similarly nonstatistically based ideas about the results of concealed carry

    reason, acts like these hysterics when it comes to their pet issues e.g. police violence

    they repeatedly claim it's out of control, but do not provide statistical backing for such claims

    i suggest a trip to BJS

  • Coeus||

    just the other day, a histrionic screed lamented the rising "police state" as supposedly exemplified by a couple of anecdotes.

    Nope, no rising police state at all. Move along, nothing to see here.

    Just tell the approximately 70% of the population that lives in a "Constitution-free zone" that shit.

  • Harvard||

    I'm guessing he cheerleads the cops because meaningful employment seems beyond him.

  • Jerryskids||

    if we are seeing a rising police state, then we should be seeing a rise in police violence, disparately as compared to part I crimes, and on a per capita basis.

    does reason provide such statistical evidence?

    no

    does it exist?

    i have no idea, but then i am not making the extreme claim.

    IIRC, you pointed out the other day that there were plenty of facts and figures out there in the OJP 5-year household survey on UOFs. Of course, those stats are not quite as authoritative as the FBI crime figures since - as they point out somewhere right near the top - there is no requirement for the centralized collection of statistics.

    IOW, the most reliable source of statistics says there is no reliable source of statistics.

    FWIW - 74% of the respondents who reported UOF incidents said the UOF was excessive. But you knew that.

  • Tagalog||

    It's unknown as yet (at least to the general public) if George Zimmerman pursued and confronted Trayvon Martin. Martin may in fact have pursued and confronted Zimmerman, and assaulted him.

  • Bucky||

    see, i knew someone was paying attention...

  • Harvard||

    Zimmerman was. "Any caliber you want so long as it begins with the number four".

  • rho||

    Kennedy works as well on YouTube as on cable TV.

    Indictment on TV or the Internet: you decide!

  • ||

  • ||

    Oh, for god's sake. I have been out. I came home and ran to link to that, but I see y'all have already had at it. Sorry for the redundancy there.

  • David_TheMan||

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/.....index.html

    Nothing about this?

    Oh, doesn't fit your story of "white men" being under attack by tha gubment and the coloreds angle huh?

  • Coeus||

    Nothing about this?

    Why would that be mentioned? Everyone is already aware of it. It was on the 24hr news cycle for weeks. And shows back up whenever there's a trial update.

    Got a link to the Alabama story from CNN? Go ahead, look for one. I'll wait.

  • David_TheMan||

    Why wouldn't an attack on someone be mentioned? So what if it is in the news and there are updates.

    I don't need a link to the Alabama story on CNN, I have a fox news version, the #1 network.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012.....ess-claim/

    So what do you have to say now?

    Still gonna cling to the evil gubmint and mainstream media having it out for the "po wittle white man"?

    Get out of here. Zimmerman and white people are persecuted by because people wanted a trial for him.

    Idiots from every race attack people from other races, some with racists intent, but mostly they attack each other. At the end of the day the real problem isn't who they attacked but that they did it and they should be punished for that aggression.

    Rubes like yourself though see it only as a means to promote a racial agenda, by trying to play the victim card and it is pathetic.

  • Azathoth!!||

    Ah, so it isn't on CNN--unlike the one you linked from last August in which the animals got no sympathy from the media or whites in general even while whites were being reviled for what this attack said about 'their racism'.

    When CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS and MSNBC are all running hysterical pieces about the Alabama case then you can say the two/three cases are being treated equally.

  • David_TheMan||

    No one made an argument about CNN. If you want to cry about it though feel free to do so, it doesn't interest me.

    Oh poor whites, some being called racists, sure must be tough.

    It doesn't matter than a man was killed, nope, it is that some white people were called racists. LOL.

    All of them don't have to do a damn thing about any story.

    Fact is both stories are nationally reported, and instead of realizing the differences that you have one case where a man has been beaten and an investigation is on-going and the other a 17 year old unarmed boy was killed by a 28 year old man and the police didn't even complete a good investigation and let the killer walk away scot-free on the ridiculous notion of SYG which doesn't apply.

    Like I said, you are very transparent with the white male victim card.

  • Coeus||

    Oh poor whites, some being called racists, sure must be tough.


    It was pretty tough for Matthew Owens.

    Fact is both stories are nationally reported, and instead of realizing the differences that you have one case where a man has been beaten lynched.

    There, fixed it for you. As the rest of that paragraph is pure conjecture, it can safely be ignored.

    Like I said, you are very transparent with the white male victim card.

    Well, you didn't say that, but I grant you were probably thinking it. So what's the deal here? Are we gonna pretend that the media doesn't play up white-on-black crime like it's an epidemic? That they aren't so keen on doing so and have so few examples that they call anyone who isn't black white, just to get the stories? Why is mentioning this fact playing a white male victim card? What do you think we're trying to win? Why does admitting this fact anger you so much?

  • David_TheMan||

    It is pretty tough for Trayvon, you know being dead at 17 for simply trying to walk home. No sympathy for a dead kid though, but bleeding heart for Matthew Owens.

    I wonder what could be the difference between the two outside of being human beings.

  • Coeus||

    I wonder what could be the difference between the two outside of being human beings.

    Well, for starters, one was undeniably lynched, and the other was killed in a (poorly) disputed self defense claim. A claim which gets more and more likely as new information continues to come out.

    I ask again, why does acknowledging this make you so angry?

  • Coeus||

    Rubes like yourself though see it only as a means to promote a racial agenda, by trying to play the victim card and it is pathetic.

    What agenda?

  • David_TheMan||

    Clearly white victimization at the hands of the blacks and evil government and media.

  • Coeus||

    My agenda is white victimization? To what end? All I did was mention a few facts.

    Again, why does this make you so angry?

  • LarryA||

    the neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman

    Every media story uses the "neighborhood watch" label. Is it valid? I REALLY REALLY WISH someone would cover that. (Kennedy?)

    I remember an early report that there was no Neighborhood Watch organization in the community. No media has ever interviewed/mentioned any other NW members. AFAIK no one has contacted Neighborhood Watch. (http://www.usaonwatch.org/)

    Was Zimmerman actually a member of NW? Was he trained and equipped as one? Had he coordinated with law enforcement? Was he following NW procedures?

    Or was he simply out on the end of a long rope calling himself "Neighborhood Watch?"

  • David_TheMan||

    He was a NW leader, their Watch program simply wasn't nationally registered, which it doesn't have to be.

  • DanaLynn||

    There is one reason for the declining crime rates - underreporting. Here is one rare example of reporting the truth being reported:

    http://www.theagitator.com/201.....ed-crimes/

    People that live in major cities know the declining rates are a sharp contradiction to what they see with their own eyes. Failure and dropout rates for inner-city schools, as well as demographic trends, belie the completely fabricated trend of lower crime rates. The declining rates are also in stark contrast to huge increase gang activity across the US over the last 20 years.

    Underreporting is the status quo. The truth will eventually surface. By the time people find out, it'll probably be a nearly insurmountable problem. In other words, it will likely play out much like the problems with our economy.

  • DanaLynn||

  • Maggie||

    When my Mom was in college (early/mid-60's), she went to dinner after play practice with some friends, one of whom was a young black man. The waiter kept bringing the wrong order for him till Mom yelled at him. That restaurant no longer exists, and in the last 20-25 years of my adult existence, I've never had to yell at a waiter for bring the wrong thing for my black friends or relatives.

  • joy||

    His shooter, the neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman, http://www.petwinkel.com/pet-red-bull-c-54.html has been arrested and charged with second-degree murder, so the wheels of the legal system, however slowly and imperfectly, are grinding forward.

  • Big Boy||

    You've been drinking the Brady Campaign's coolaid.

    America is not awash in gun violence (the numbers are very much DOWN.) And Most gun violence is black on black murder caused by everything but the gun.

    The second Amendment is no more involved than the First (associate with drug pushers and gangstras and you'll come to a bad end).

    You do write for REASON not for Emotion.

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