Reason Morning Links: Libya Not Yet a Democratic Paradise, Greece Government "Teetering," Jack Abramoff Tells All

  • Factions within Libya's revolution have pledged allegiance to local military councils, and have no plans to put down their guns and stop fighting. 
  • The Weekly Standard spends some time with Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.):"Ryan's decision not to run for president means that when the GOP selects a nominee Ryan will relinquish his role as the most important Republican in America (a role he took on following the release of his Medicare-reforming budget in April). But it's clear that in Ryan's second act--prosecuting the case against Obama, boosting the eventual GOP nominee, and shaping the agenda--he still intends to play a big part."
  • NYT: "With the government teetering on the verge of collapse, the Greek cabinet offered its full support early Wednesday to Prime Minister George A. Papandreou for his surprise plan to call a referendum on the Greek financial crisis."
  • TPM has more details on the group of geriatric would-be terrorists who were plotting a domestic ricin attack.
  • Rep. Connie Mack (R-Fla.) makes congressman number 30 to call for Attorney General Eric Holder's resignation. 
  • Jack Abramoff has a new book out in which the disgraced lobbyist claims Ralph Reed confided that "Bush personally told him that his presidency would make all of us very rich."

New at Reason.tv: "EU Bans Free-Range Kids! Nanny of the Month October 2011!"

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  • Suki||

    Well, it is about time. Good, belated, Morning Links!

  • Jerry||

    This week they will be early because daylight savings has already started in Europe :)

  • Kristen||

    Daylight saving time is just starting in Europe?!?! Damn they're behind teh 8 ball....in 'Merika daylisght saving starts in April!

  • ||

    What the fuck is Day Light Savings Time?

  • Suki||

    And they use metric time, so it is way different.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Financial crisis: Eurocrats are terrified of democracy
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....cracy.html

    I wish I could convey the sheer horror that his proposal provoked in Brussels. The first rule of the Eurocracy is “no referendums”. Brussels functionaries believe that their work is too important to be subject to the prejudices of hoi polloi (for once, the Greek phrase seems apposite). Referendums are always seen as irresponsible; but, at a time when the euro is teetering on the brink, Papandreou’s proposal was seen as an act of ingratitude bordering on treason.
  • Restoras||

    It's going to be teh awezum to watch that train hit the wall at full speed. Then mayb, just maybe, I won't have to hear from my leftie friends why Europe is so much better.

  • Zeb||

    I'd like to congratulate the author of the quoted passage for not writing "the hoi polloi".

  • ||

    Yes, but -2 points for not using Greek letters.

  • Kristen||

    -eleventy billion for H&R not letting me post the actual Greek letters.

  • ||

    That's very annoying. I can understand blocking a comment in all Greek letters but to do so when they're just part of an English comment, well, that's a denial of our heritage. Our heritage, dangit!

  • Brett L||

    They fear we might use them to prove something with math.

  • ||

    Ah. Math fear is rife among reporters.

  • Almanian||

    Yes, that was the awesome.

  • ||

    Is this a trick to make me google 'apposite'?

  • cynical||

    Fuck Brussels.

  • EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy||

    The first rule of the Eurocracy is “no referendums”.

    Yeah, well look what happen to the Eurostitution when the let member state ask the people about it...

  • MiNGe||

    Factions within Libya's revolution have pledged allegiance to local military councils, and have no plans to put down their guns and stop fighting.

    Now this is what a legal and successful war looks like! As opposed to BOOOSH!!!!11!!!

  • o2||

    u mean because both wars just ended we can now compare them?

  • 02||

    and have no plans to put down their guns and stop fighting.

    fuck im so stupid i think that means the warz ended derp

  • ||

    both wars just ended

    define 'ended'.

  • o4||

    end of US combat ops. so lets compare outcomes shall we? iraq vs libya...

  • Chinny Chin Chin||

    Orrin,

    Why do you think it is logical to compare outcomes when the two situations' starting points were so very different?

  • o4||

    evidently minge does

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Signed, sealed, delivered: we won.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Facts are optional
    How sex-harass suits work
    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/o.....WKMH5eUuvM

    When you consider that, more than a decade ago, Herman Cain settled some unspecified sexual-harassment claims, you also need to consider that the only things you need to file a lawsuit are the filing fee and a printer. Facts are optional.

    Maybe Cain did harass some employees. But the dirty little secret among lawyers that defend business people from lawsuits -- and among those lawyers who bring them -- is that an enormous percentage of such claims are frivolous, if not flat-out lies.
  • Suki||

    More here

  • RoboCain||

    How is that a secret?

  • T||

    Cheaper to settle than fight, especially when it's a "he said, she said" case.

  • ||

    Beyond that this issue was settled in the 1990s. We had a president who got a blowjob in the oval office from an unpaid intern half his age and then lied about it both to the American public and under oath. And we were told this was a private matter and had no bearing on his fitness to be President. Indeed, Clinton was aquitted in the Senate and is now an elder statesman.

    And now these lying sacks of shit in the major media want to claim that the fact that Herman Cain may have hit on some delicate hot house flower 20 years ago is a big story? You have to be fucking kidding me.

  • Team Blue||

    Hey, it's okay when our side does it!

  • ||

    John,
    It is slightly worse that that for Clinton IMO.

    Clinton didn't just break a law that he signed (goes against everything we believe as Americans)
    He didn't just lie under oath and get away with it because he is the President.

    He actually raped a girl.f

    A whole lot more evidence against Clinton, a whole lot more credible witness against Clinton, than there ever was against Mike Tyson.

    (Only the people involved know for sure, but I believe based on the facts of the case that Tyson was innocent, and Clinton was guilty. And Tyson went to prison where Clinton did not)

  • ||

    As I understand, there was more than 1 Clinton rape victim.

  • ||

    He didn't lie under oath -- his "crime" was not correcting his lawyer's statement while he was on the witness stand, which is weak fucking tea to support an accusation of perjury.

    And there's no evidence he ever raped anyone. That's libel lawsuit material there, be careful.

  • CaptainSmartass||

    First off, Clinton was asked if there "is" a sexual relationship between him and Lewinsky. He said "No". That was borderline perjury, and the reason he was disbarred.

    Second, I think Clinton raped several women. He just seems the type to do it.

  • ||

    No. Watch the video of the supposed "perjury". It's his lawyer, while Clinton was being cross-examined, who objects that "there is no sex" and the supposed perjury was that Clinton didn't interrupt him to say that there was/is in fact sex.

    As for your second remark -- go to feministing with that shit.

  • ||

    He raped Jaunita Broderick

  • Ice Nine||

    And now these lying sacks of shit in the major media want to claim that the fact that Herman Cain may have hit on some delicate hot house flower 20 years ago is a big story? You have to be fucking kidding me.

    I don't know - why don't you run the question by Clarence Thomas.

  • ||

    This is even worse than Thomas. Thomas was before Clinton. The standard back then really was this stuff was a big deal. They had done in John Tower and the Senator whose name escapes me who kept the diary for the same reasons. At least with Thomas you could claim that up to that point these things really were a big deal.

    But Clinton ended all of that. The debate was settled, sexual harrassment charges against powerful men didn't matter.

  • WTF||

    John, you got it wrong, it was really:
    But Clinton ended all of that. The debate was settled, sexual harrassment charges against powerful Team Blue men didn't matter.

  • Maxxx||

    I'm holding my breath waiting for Obama to be asked if he was ever accused of Sexual Harassment.

  • Supreme Generalissimo Fluffy||

    Honestly, I doubt he ever was.

    He was never in a position where he had any authority over anybody.

    Being a community organizer is good for helping you hide from the problems that arise if you're a business executive, or a mayor or governor, or the president of a lobbying organization.

    The guy was too obscure to be a target.

    That, of course, doesn't exactly reflect too well on him either, though.

  • ||

    He was a professor, and I assure you that professors have to be wary of situations that can lead to those accusations.

    And of course legislators are common targets as well.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    No, he was a lecturer.

  • Weary American||

    He still is.

  • EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy||

    This.

  • ||

    the Senator whose name escapes me who kept the diary for the same reasons

    Bob Packwood (R-OR)

  • Supreme Generalissimo Fluffy||

    The claims may very well have been frivolous.

    But we now know one thing about Herman Cain:

    That when he gets a question that surprises or embarrasses him, he will lie. As his first instinct. "Oh shit! Tough question! Gotta lie!"

    When he initially claimed to not know about the settlements, he was lying.

    When he initially claimed he had turned the whole matter over to his HR person, he was lying.

    We know that.

    That's who Herman Cain is.

    So the question becomes: why not just support Romney? If you're going to back somebody who lies every time he gets a hard question, Romney is already there for you to support.

  • ||

    Doesn't that make them pretty much equal other than we know Romney actively worked against republican ideals?

  • ||

    Explain how Romney actively worked against republican ideals.

  • ||

    Good pint Herr Generalissimo.

  • Jersey Patriot||

    So the question becomes: why not just support Romney? If you're going to back somebody who lies every time he gets a hard question, Romney is already there for you to support.

    No need to restrict your scope.

  • EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy||

    But we now know one thing about Herman Cain:

    That when he gets a question that surprises or embarrasses him, he will lie. As his first instinct. "Oh shit! Tough question! Gotta lie!"

    So...your saying that he's as well qualified as the incumbent?

    And the previous guy. And certainly Bubba. And George the Elder backed down after we read his lips. And lets not talk about the things that ...

    Oh, screw it. There's no end.

  • ||

    This morning NBC was making a big deal that one of them got "a whole years salary". As if 30 or 40K or even a 100K is any kind of a settlement to a large corporation.

  • free2booze||

    It's still better compensation than a stained dress, and a dry cleaning tab.

  • Every MD In America||

    taking 40 percent or more of the haul and fronting the costs of the suit, there’s little incentive not to march down to the courthouse and file even the flimsiest case.

    Who knew?

  • Mike M.||

    This. There are two preferred ways that liberals smear people in the modern era: the first is to tar someone as a racist, and the second is to falsely accuse someone of rape and/or "sexual harrassment".

    Since the race card can't be credibly played against black conservatives, it naturally has to be the second for Cain, just like for Clarence Thomas.

  • RoboCain||

    This.

  • Supreme Generalissimo Fluffy||

    So what you're saying is that people back in the 90's somehow knew Cain would run for President 15 years later and somehow, impossibly, be the front runner?

    That is truly awesome and amazing planning. They really deserve a gold star for that.

  • RoboCain||

    That doesn't seem to be what he is saying.

  • Supreme Generalissimo Fluffy||

    It has to be what he is saying.

    He is saying that liberals want to smear Cain as a sexual harasser, because he's a strong black conservative.

    But in order to carry out this particular smear, they would have needed to create false allegations BACK IN THE 1990'S.

    And that's really, really good planning, if that's what they did.

    The Clarence Thomas thing was completely different, because Anita Hill sprang out of nowhere to talk about stuff that had happened in the past that she hadn't complained about at the time.

    That made it pretty obvious (to me at least) that she was contriving her complaint after the fact in order to attack a strong black conservative and try to keep him off the SCOTUS.

    But here, these women complained in real time. There was NO WAY anyone in the 90's could know where Herman Cain would be now. Making up a false allegation in order to cripple Cain politically BACK IN THE 1990'S would have required extraordinary foresight.

  • Mike M.||

    It's hardly limited to people who are striving to attain high federal office. This kind of incident can easily happen to you, to me, or to pretty much anybody.

    Take the Duke lacrosse players for example. These were nothing but freaking college kids for crying out loud, and some lowlife piece of trash nearly managed to ruin their lives with a false rape accusation because they did or said something she didn't like, she was trying to squeeze them for a bunch of cash, or both.

    I guarantee you that even to this day there are some people out there who still believe those guys raped her. And if any one of them should ever strive to get into politics as a conservative, you can bet that just the accusation alone will be used as a tailor-made smear job against them. The facts are basically irrelevant; that's how politics as a bloodsport works.

  • tarran||

    Actually, the fake rape allegation was not prompted by anything the lacross players had done.

    The accuser made her accusation after she attracted the notice of some cops that were gong to arrest her for disorderly conduct or some-such.

    She basically tried to ruin their lives in order to avoid a night or two in jail.

  • ||

    ""It's hardly limited to people who are striving to attain high federal office. This kind of incident can easily happen to you, to me, or to pretty much anybody""

    What passes for sexual harrasment these days is just insane. Telling a woman "nice hair" could do it if she gets offended. The problem is that it's no longer objective. It's all about how the woman feels about the comment.

  • RoboCain||

    In order to carry out this particular smear, they would have to dig up some alleged sexual harassment -- which everyone over the age of five knows is fiddlesticks wrapped in a tortilla of horseshit -- from back in the 90's. Which is exactly what they are doing, as opposed to some bullshit accusation of racism.

    Although I'm sure they'll eventually cook up some crap about Jews or Mexicans or something.

  • ||

    Most CEOs have been accused of sexual harrassment at some time or another. I think the original poster's point is that digging up this kind of dirt is a common liberal tactic.

  • cynical||

    That's why we must treasure the black women who are more or less on our side.

  • Joe M||

    So are we figuring Paul Ryan is running for Vice President at this point? He's still young, and I could see him planning on sixteen years in the White House in one capacity or another.

  • Lord Humungus||

    S.E. Cupp: Hard work, not higher taxes, will save the American economy

    The argument that Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals, have been having for decades hasn’t changed much. And now, though muddled and overly-caffeinated, it’s the same argument being taken up by the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street. Take away the name-calling and vitriol, and what you’re left with is a simple truth: Both sides fundamentally believe that the other improperly understands and applies economics.

    For the right, a free market with little government intervention will produce the most prosperity for everyone — an idea broadly known as Reaganomics, for its most famous champion. And for the left, the government should play a significant role in redistributing wealth among the less fortunate. Or as then-candidate Obama memorably said in 2008, “when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”
  • RoboCain||

    She is so much hotter with the glasses.

  • ||

    She is hot with or without them. But the glasses really work.

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    Sexual harrassment! You dirty, harrassing pervert!

  • ||

    I read somewhere where Cupp thinks it is "creepy" when men comment on her looks on the internet. Honey you go on Fox News like five times a week sitting side to the camera with a skirt split half way up your ass. What do you think men are going to talk about?

  • RoboCain||

    The word "creepy" has been so overused that it no longer has any meaning.

  • Lord Humungus||

    that's just plain creepy

  • ||

    Yes. And watch her on Fox News sometimes. She is always wearing a short skirt with her legs to the side of the camera. She has great legs. I am not complaining. But it is a bit rich of her to then complain when people notice.

  • Lord Humungus||

    does your wife know of your SE Cupp obsession?

  • ||

    If noticing a women has good legs makes me obsessed, I am obsessed with a lot more women than her.

  • Kristen||

    I'd be very, very worried if my s.o. didn't ogle other women.

  • ||

    ""But it is a bit rich of her to then complain when people notice.""

    No kidding. Sadly, if you told her that, sexual harrasment would depend if you look like George Castanza or George Clooney.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    This is true. Comparing casey Anthony with Jesse James is fucking mornic. Jesse may be a jerk, he may have given up the nicest piece of girl next door ass to ever hit hollywood, but he aint "creepy". Even my wife said that was a way out of line characteriztion of him. Casey Anthony??? Yeah, I'll take creepy. And Crazy Ass Bitch too.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    threaded comments,How do they work?!??!

    no really, how the FUCK do they work.

    according to PBrooks they don't

  • stonewyrm||

    I think looking is expected, but commenting is a bit creepy. Which makes sense to me. You might sneak a peek at a cute girl, but follwoing here down the street yelling "Nice ass" is a bit creepy.

  • The Millennials||

    But work is hard, and, like, I always got a Trophy and a Pat on the Back for showing up when I was little! And I got really good grades in college (cough - grade inflation - cough)! And mommy always told me to follow my dreams - and dreams make people millions!

  • RoboCain||

    "Not to be sexist? But I want to chain S.E. Cupp up in my basement"

    http://tinyurl.com/3ed2lnj

  • Lord Humungus||

    now that's creepy.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    [R]eason movie-lovers, you have to help me!

    A couple years ago, I started watching a movie that I didn't finish. Now I need to remember the title.

    It's a neo-noir, hyper-stylized violence, dark atmosphere, etc. The most distinctive thing that I can remember clearly is that one of the opening scenes is set at a large windfarm. It came out within the past five years, approximately.

    As I recall, it was a fairly limited-release sort of film, so hopefully one of you can help me!

  • Suki||

    "Contact" was not at a wind farm, it was a radio telescope farm.

  • JOhnny MAckson||

    You're probably thinking of this. Drop that zero and get with the hero. LOL

    Jess
    anonz.com

  • Joe M||

    Maybe this list will help?

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Unfortunately, I had already checked that list.
    No dice.

  • sarcasmic||

    I found it!

    http://xkcd.com/556/

  • Tim||

    Energy's Eleven, where Obama and his Barrack Pack take down a series of taxpayer funded green energy concerns.

  • ||

    Boom, Baby.

  • o2||

    Injury to former Marine spurs vets to join Occupy movement By Gary Strauss
    USA Today Published: November 1, 2011

    Spurred by an injury to one of their own, military veterans are mobilizing to increase their presence and profile in the Occupy Wall Street movement.

    Wednesday on Wall Street, the New York City chapter of Iraq Veterans Against the War and dozens of other uniformed veterans known as "Veterans of the 99%" are expected to mass near Wall Street, where Occupy began Sept. 17.

    "We're getting calls from veterans across the country who are extremely angry and appalled that someone who served two tours in Iraq got injured as a well-behaved protester,'' says Kimball, 27. "It's rallying vets across the country. We're just seeing the beginning of it."

    Joe Carter, a retired Army sergeant and head of the national Iraq Veterans Against the War association, expects increasing involvement from both retired and active-duty personnel.

    "We're hearing from 80-year-old former Marines,'' says Carter, who served two tours in Iraq. "Scott Olsen was willing to put himself on the line, so a lot more people are willing to take a more visible role."
    http://www.stripes.com/news/us.....-1.159483#

    Occupy Wall St finds money brings problems too
    By Ben Berkowitz and Chris Francescani
    NEW YORK | Wed Nov 2, 2011 8:14am EDT

    NEW YORK (Reuters) - Occupy Wall Street has raised more than $500,000 in New York alone to support anti-greed demonstrations and, seven weeks into the movement, protesters are finding that having money creates headaches.
    http://www.reuters.com/article.....DY20111102

  • T||

    IVAW, the bastard offspring of VVAW, in turn the bastard offspring of the 60s peace movement. And incidentally, a bunch of lying bastards.

  • o4||

    support OWS = lying liers !

    soo ez even wingnutz can remember !

  • o4||

    facts i don't liek = [WINGNUTZ] meme! derp! so ez i never have to think!

  • KDN||

    If only their parents would have bought them that Notorious B.I.G. CD in middle school like they asked, they wouldn't be having these problems.

  • romulus augustus||

    Apparently the military is also mobilizing to give RonPaul more in contributions than the other candidates combined.

  • Ghost of Jose Guerena||

    Interesting that the cops are more dangerous to Marines than the fucking foreign enemies we fight.

  • ||

    To be fair, the Marines are allowed to fire back at the foreign enemies.

  • o4||

    +5.56

  • General James M. Scott||

    To be fair, the Marines are allowed to fire back at the foreign enemies.

    I'm working on that. Give me a week.

  • ||

    Pretty sure the foreign enemies have killed more Marines than cops, so this is way off-base and frankly insulting. But of course you'll be applauded here because H&R loves melodrama as long as it fits with their predetermined positions.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Why We Can't Escape the Eurocrisis
    EU and U.S. debt are interlinked through the banking system.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....43012.html

    The Federal Reserve has engaged in currency swaps with the European Central Bank to support the dollar needs of EU banks. The ECB deposits euros (or euro-denominated assets) with the Fed and receives dollars in return. It promises to repay dollars plus interest.

    The Fed maintains they cannot lose money because the ECB promises to repay the swaps in dollars. And yet, with the world awash in greenbacks, it is unclear why the Fed and the ECB even needed to engage in these transactions—except that it suggests funding problems at some EU banks. And if neither EU banks nor the ECB can secure enough needed dollars in global markets, there is a serious counterparty risk to the Fed. The ECB can print euros but not dollars. Sen. Richard Shelby (R., Ala.), ranking member of the Senate Banking Committee, was correct to raise concerns about the Fed's policy last week. Losses on the Fed's balance sheet hit the U.S taxpayer, not EU citizens.
  • Fist of Etiquette||

    As with most gut decisions, Ryan can't really explain it logically. “From a competitive and intellectual standpoint, the idea of the race was intriguing to me for sure,” Ryan says. "It made sense in my mind, but it has to make sense in your heart and your gut as well. I don’t know how else to describe it," he says. "My gut has never been wrong” about such decisions.

    That makes two potential Republican presidential candidates refusing to run because of their gut.

  • T||

    IBS is a bitch, yo.

  • Jersey Patriot||

    I think their gut tells them that the economy is still going to suck in 2014, so why take the rap for it?

  • Lord Humungus||

    NYC arrest records: Many Occupy Wall Street protesters live in luxury
    http://dailycaller.com/2011/11.....in-luxury/

    For each of the 984 Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested in New York City between September 18 and October 15, police collected and filed an information sheet recording the arrestee’s name, age, sex, criminal charge, home address and — in most cases — race. The Daily Caller has obtained all of this information from a source in the New York City government.

    Among addresses for which information is available, single-family homes listed on those police intake forms have a median value of $305,000 — a far higher number than the $185,400 median value of owner-occupied housing units in the United States.
  • ||

    But double asshole says they are all unemployed disabled veterans.

  • ||

    Well, to be fair it IS New York, where housing costs twice as much and you make twice as much. Also, many of those were probably parents' houses. But yeah, it's not surprising these are mostly upper-middle to upper class kids.

  • ||

    ""Well, to be fair it IS New York,""

    Many of the protesters are not from NY.

  • JD the elder||

    While I have no great love for OWS protesters, this is just dumb. Firstly, it's for those who live in single-family homes, which I suspect is a small minority. Secondly, $305,000 may be far higher than the median for the whole US, but it is extremely cheap for NYC, and relatively cheap for other parts of the northeast.

  • cynical||

    Over-privileged
    White
    Socialists

  • ||

    Among addresses for which information is available

    Hello bias. It doesn't take a six-sigma black belt to see that.

    That and the fact that you're not accounting for people who don't live in single family homes.

  • KDN||

  • alexdroog||

    Why did the Bieber article include a picture of Rachel Maddow?

  • Ice Nine||

    He is so much hotter with the glasses.

  • Joe M||

    The glasses really work.

  • RoboCain||

    That's just creepy.

  • ||

    +1.
    Also, sometimes reason h & r and /b/ are not very far apart.

  • Jerry||

    Wait, Bieber is having heterosexual sex? Stop the presses.

  • ||

    He is the one man in America who can make a credible claim the woman raped him.

  • WTF||

    Let's see how the paternity test turns out before we jump to conclusions.

  • Ice Nine||

    I'm guessing this is BS and just the next step in the "bad boy" promo evolution.

  • Ice Nine||

    I'm guessing this is BS and just the next step in the "bad boy" promo evolution.

  • Joe M||

    The article says he was aggressive. I wonder if he was ft³/min aggressive.

  • Ice Nine||

    Heh. Doubt it; he's sort of a smallish dude, isn't he?

  • o2||

    beeper is hot

    i wonder if he likez vetz

  • Cliché Bandit||

    SO, after the clarification yesterday on what the S stood for I can now present MY math on the subject:
    Assume-6" length x 2" diameter
    Assume-unidriectional effective volume.
    Total Volume arrpox 18.85cui/thrust

    1728cui/cuf
    this equals 91 thrusts to make 1cuf.

    Therefore 8 thrusts ever 5 seconds for 60 seconds makes 1cuf/min.

    Am I missing something here?

    In the words of Mythbusters, "Plausible"

    (however exhausting)

  • Joe M||

    Looks pretty reasonable, although that diameter is above average I think, in which case, congrats.

  • Ice Nine||

    Precisely. That is what he's missing. If you use real size numbers you get (if memory serves me) about 180 thrusts/min (= fatal).

  • Beloved Rev. Blue Moon||

    "You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor... and would have different CONCLUSIONS written on it that you could JUMP TO."

  • ||

    LOL, I just heard a donation-begging commercial for the outrage-interest-group-of-the-week on the radio claiming that 1 in 6 boys is raped before age 18.

    I mean, seriously? They didn't say how they know this, they just stated it as a self-evident fact.

  • Matrix||

    Bieber is a girl, therefore it is lesbian sex. No way Bieber could be the father. Biology 101.

  • $6M RoboTorso||

  • Jay Carney||

    Let's be clear about one thing, Fannie and Freddie entities are independent and therefore they are independent decisions. The White House is not involved, and nor should it be. That's appropriate.

    But there is a larger issue here. The economy is tough. People are hurting. And we understand that there's a lot of frustration out there because of that, and it's important that leaders, regulators, folks in the private sector as well as the public sector, be responsive to people's legitimate frustrations.

    We believe that there needs to be accountability and responsibility in the compensation practices of firms, and that's why we fought the ensure that the Wall Street Reform and Financial Protection Act included say on pay, which would let shareholders have a voice in compensation practices, and important clawback provisions that would recoup compensation pay prior to a company's failure. Again, so that's a broader principle at work here. The White House does not have a role in assigning pay for this independent agency, but I think more broadly, everyone needs to be sensitive to and responsive to the frustration that is being expressed by Americans all over the country about what they feel is an imbalance, perhaps, in these kinds of areas.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Bill Gates’s plan to assist the world’s poor
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

    Second, development isn’t just good for people in poor countries; it’s good for all of us. It used to be that the world was, roughly speaking, one-third rich and two-thirds poor. Now, the number of dynamic, healthy, highly educated countries is much higher, which is a recipe for prosperity. Imagine the world economy without Brazil, China, India, Indonesia, South Korea, Mexico or Turkey.

    If countries that are currently poor can feed, educate and employ their people, then over time they will contribute to the world economy. On the supply side, they’ll increase the production of key commodities such as food, keeping prices lower. On the demand side, as their citizens are more productive, they’ll become important markets for trade.
  • T||

    First graf and I'm already confused.

    This 60 percent decline in childhood deaths — reflecting advances in agriculture, education, health and sanitation — is compelling evidence of the increasing justice in our world.

    Increasing justice? WTF are you on about, Bill?

  • Matrix||

    Unpossible! Only the government can bring people to prosperity and generate wealth!

  • ||

    How come this guy doesn't get the Novel Peace Prize.... Seriously?

    Why is it the terrorist like Yasser Arrafat, or bomb happy fucks like Obama that get a peace prize?

  • ||

    ""bomb happy fucks like Obama that get a peace prize?""

    Well Obama was given the prize not for what he had did, but for what they hoped he would do. Stupid them.

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    News flash! ChapStick is full of dangerous chemicals, including known carcinogens, and you absolutely shouldn't use it, because it's "addicting" and deadly!

    Make sure have your bullshit meters properly adjusted before clicking.

  • Ice Nine||

    The parent company Wyeth is a 61.3 billion dollar pharmaceutical corporation.

    This alone is definitive evidence that ChapStick is evil.

  • Almanian||

    Susie Chapstick was sufficient evidence that ChapSuck is evil.

  • ||

    From a common sense perspective the risks of putting petroleum on your lips is not rocket science.

    Science, guys, it is made out of petroleum a substance more evil than even Evilinium.

  • Hank||

    Take your hard earned money elsewhere and maybe in time Wyeth in time will learn not to put their customer's health at risk.

    They only have one customer? Then why all the fuss?

    I'll stop now. That site's too easy.

  • Ice Nine||

    All the others died of lip balm intoxication, perhaps.

  • Hank||

    The company outsource's animal testers so as not to get their hands dirty.

    Looks sciencey.

  • Kristen||

    Last time I was in the market for some lip balm, the natural crap was about 5x more expensive, so yeah - I'm sticking with the chemically goodness.

  • Jersey Patriot||

    This is why I switched to Blistex.

  • Brett L||

    What? Its wax, flavor and food coloring. OMG!!! Mineral oil!!! Repeat after me, the dose makes the poison.

  • Warty||

  • ||

    Bloomburg blames Congress for the mortgage crisis.

    "I hear your complaints," Bloomberg said. "Some of them are totally unfounded. It was not the banks that created the mortgage crisis. It was, plain and simple, Congress who forced everybody to go and give mortgages to people who were on the cusp. Now, I'm not saying I'm sure that was terrible policy, because a lot of those people who got homes still have them and they wouldn't have gotten them without that.

    "But they were the ones who pushed Fannie and Freddie to make a bunch of loans that were imprudent, if you will. They were the ones that pushed the banks to loan to everybody. And now we want to go vilify the banks because it's one target, it's easy to blame them and Congress certainly isn't going to blame themselves. At the same time, Congress is trying to pressure banks to loosen their lending standards to make more loans. This is exactly the same speech they criticized them for."

    http://www.capitalnewyork.com/.....-not-banks

    Didn't Bloomburg get MNG and Tony's memo that that is just a rightwing meme?

  • o2||

    correct its just a meme to foam the [WINGNUTZ]

  • ||

    Yeah, that is why some right wing nut like Bloomburg is saying it dipshit. I would say that if a liberal like Bloomburg admits it, it is not a right wing meme. Fuck you are stupid Orin. We really do need a program for you so you can understand the posts.

  • o2||

    bloomberg is a [REPUBLICAN] wingnutz

  • ||

    No fuckhead, Bloomburg is a liberal who ran on the Republican ticket in New York because it meant he wouldn't have a primary. And being a liberal doesn't mean you can't join the Republican party.

  • o2||

    republican [LIBRULZ] like mike huckabee and ron pual

  • ||

    Now you have stopped typing in English. Try again Orin.

  • teh real o2||

    ^spoofer john. take it ez ok

  • Almanian||

    You're so fucking stupid it's delicious. Yes, Bloomberg is ALMOST EXACTLY like Ron Paul.

    Thanks for bringing your unique brand of stupid to the party again, Urine.

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    On what fucking planet did you learn (or should I say attempt to learn) English?

    Because you evidently are unable to clearly communicate a thought or concept. If, that is, you are able to form or hold either one - for which there is, as yet, scant evidence.

  • o2||

    at leest im not a wingnutz that tihkz crazy things

  • KDN||

    38 years as Democrat, 5 as a nominal Republican, 6 as a centrist/liberal independent. Totally a true believer in small government and social conservatism.

  • Restoras||

    It really is amazing how stupid you are.

  • KDN||

    Bloomberg sold out the One True Party to get on a major party ticket without having to go through the purifying ritual of a primary. He is a right-wing monster.

    Thinking that governmental policy has adverse consequences is nihilism. Stating that problems have non-government solutions is also nihilism. Why is Bloomberg trying to destroy America?

  • MNG||

    Actually, even Fatty Bolger/Johny Longtorso has said here that the government deserves some blame, the private sector some. That's my view.

    What's a meme for either side is that only one of them is to blame. On the right it is all "ACORN and the CRA!!!"

  • T||

    The government created a system that incentivized poor behavior, and lot of people ran with that. I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for anybody involved. Everybody got greedy. Lenders, brokers, and buyers all wanted a piece of the pie .

    I could have gotten some ridiculous rates on an ARM, but the upside risk looked to be potentially huge. So I put more money down and got a fixed rate 15-year. So when the Bernanke prints enough money, my mortgage payment will be nothing! BUWAHAHAHA!

  • Citizen Nothing||

    My bank guy just called offering me a 3.8%, no point, 30-year refi.
    I'm only paying 4.5% now, but, what the hey, I figure I might as well lock in as low as I can get. Maybe even take out more cash. In about 10 years, my weekly grocery bill and my mortgage will be about the same, it looks like.

  • T||

    I can shave about 3/4 point off if I give them half a point up front. I'm shopping a vacation condo, so I've been looking at rates. They are stupid low right now. Every time I think they can't get any lower, they do. ARMs are down in the 2.5 range with some points, which is just insane to me. How do they even make money at that rate?

  • Restoras||

    There is no doubt the private sector got in on the action. Why wouldn't it? It was all enabled and encouraged by the government. It was like a rent-seeking boon they didn't even seek out.

  • MNG||

    "It was all enabled and encouraged by the government"

    Well, they were hardly having their arms twisted, most of them were trampelling over others to get in on the feeding trough. Most people thought housing prices would keep on rising and that betting on that was safe. They made killer dough on that bet for years and then when they went down they were in too deep. I actually imagine government had only a marginal effect apart from fed policy.

  • Supreme Generalissimo Fluffy||

    Most people thought housing prices would keep on rising and that betting on that was safe. They made killer dough on that bet for years and then when they went down they were in too deep. I actually imagine government had only a marginal effect apart from fed policy.

    I agree, although saying "a marginal effect apart from fed policy" is like saying "the bombing of Hiroshima didn't do that much damage, except for that day when they dropped the atom bomb."

  • MNG||

    Yeah fluff, no hyperbole there.

  • MNG||

    Because the effect of monetary policy on housing prices is equivalent to the effect of the atom bomb on Hiroshima.

    Noone disputes it has a significant effect, but WTF?

  • Supreme Generalissimo Fluffy||

    Not at all.

    In your own post, you wrote:

    Most people thought housing prices would keep on rising and that betting on that was safe

    People buy housing (like cars) based on the monthly payment.

    That means that steady interest rate declines will raise prices, because as interest rates drop you can finance a higher and higher sticker price with the same monthly payment.

    For almost 30 years through each Fed easing / tightening cycle, the rate peaks and troughs gradually got lower.

    That means that we had a generational period of time where Fed action, intentionally or not, always helped increase housing prices over the long term.

    OF COURSE people thought housing prices would always go up, outside of local variation. 30 years of data taught them to believe that.

    I don't blame CRA and I don't even blame Fannie. But there's no way to avoid blaming the Fed.

  • MNG||

    This is my point. Fed policy effects the rate of interest on the loans people use for major purchases. That's a significant effect but hardly equivalent to the effect the atom bomb had on Hiroshima. The entire idea is that it is a 'marginal' idea, this is why the monetarists supposedly prefered it to the more direct and heavyhanded Keynesian approaches they decried.

  • Supreme Generalissimo Fluffy||

    It might be marginal to the overall macro picture, but it certainly wouldn't be marginal to price increases in assets that are almost always financed when purchased.

    And that was our doom, right there: the expectation that housing prices would always rise led to a deterioration in underwriting standards, which itself led to further rapid price appreciation, which led to foreclosure data that justified further deterioration in underwriting standards in a self-reinforcing feedback loop.

    Until the whole machine got out of control and the Fed tapped the brakes too hard.

    Boom.

  • ||

    Common sense should have told the banks that they couldn't hedge away all risk anyway, but prisoner's dilemma ended up biting everyone in the ass. In the end, almost everyone was incentivized to do the wrong thing.

  • MNG||

    BTW-it seems to me that the bad mortgages were certainly a big problem, but the bundling, trading and insuring of them was pretty bad too...So I don't think it was just "making risky loans" that was the problem...

  • ||

    It was the only solution to making risky loans other than to reduce the total amount of debt of loans entirely for a bank. Plus they had willing buyers that thought they weer buying good loans, but never really asked.

  • ||

    Bloomburg disagrees. Since you missed it above, I will give the quote again.

    It was not the banks that created the mortgage crisis. It was, plain and simple, Congress who forced everybody to go and give mortgages to people who were on the cusp. Now, I'm not saying I'm sure that was terrible policy, because a lot of those people who got homes still have them and they wouldn't have gotten them without that.

    It is not a right wing meme. Bloomburg is saying it was all Congress and the CRA. Maybe he is wrong about that. But the fact that he is saying it, means not just right wing meme

  • MNG||

    That's terrible logic John, basically you are saying "since this guy who is not a right winger (though I will once again point out he only held office as a GOPer and spoke at the GOP convention) believes x, x can't be a right wing meme."

    When a side puts a meme out there it might stick, and even stick with people who are not wingnuts. That's the entire point of putting a meme out there John.

  • ||

    The whole point of you and your ilk calling it that is to imply that only right wing people believe it. That is not the case. Bloomburg believes it as well. And given his background in finance, would know something about the subject. And considering that he is a big government liberal and not the type to normally blame government, he has some credibility when he says it.

    Look, Bloomburg saying it is decent evidence that it is probably true. I am really sorry you are totally unable to process, understand or admit any fact that goes against your narratives. You really should seek some professional help for this problem. But in the mean time stop screaming Meme or other nonsense every time someone points out an inconvienent fact. It is just tiresome.

  • ||

    "When a side puts a meme out there it might stick, and even stick with people who are not wingnuts. That's the entire point of putting a meme out there John."

    Yeah, Bloomburg has been fooled by the right wing nuts. Jesus Christ MNG, do you understand how pathetic you sound? Give it up for God sakes. Admit it, you might be wrong about something. Does it ever occur to you that it is a bit odd that you are the only person on earth who is never wrong about anything?

  • ||

    Let's call is a "Banker Meme" or "Wall Street Meme". They are still desperately trying to avoid responsibility.

  • Apostate Jew||

    Exactly. If they thought they could get away with it, some would say, "Well, I didn't want to bundle those shitty loans, sell them, and then do whatever it is we do to make money when our products fail and then also get bailed out but Bill Clinton, George Bush, Al Sharpton and Alan Greenspan all put guns to my head and shouted, 'Do it motherfucker!' so I did it."

  • ||

    the government deserves some blame, the private sector some.

    "The private sector" isn't a monolithic entity. There are definitely plenty of players in the private sector who should have taken a fall for what happened, which is exactly why we opposed the bailouts.

  • Jersey Patriot||

    Rich guy with Wall Street power base doesn't blame Wall Street for financial crash. Knock me down with a feather.

  • ||

    US Department of Treasury plans to sell $846 Billion in bonds in the next 6 months.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/.....vious-year

    Ammo, gold and beans, Bitchez!

  • Jerry||

    They can only issue about $250 billion in new stuff before the debt ceiling is reached again.

  • ||

    Good, maybe the supercommittee that's created from the next debt-ceiling deal can work with the previous supercommittee, and together they can come up with a solution that's twice as good.

  • Lord Humungus||

    The Super-Duper committee!

  • Restoras||

    I laughed, and then cried.

  • Mike M.||

    This has to mean that either spending is going on the rise again, or that Obama and the republicans already have a deal in place for a significant payroll tax cut for next year.

  • ||

    "Bush personally told him that his presidency would make all of us very rich."

    I'm guessing "all of us" never included me. Otherwise, I'd think they were holding out on me.

  • Lord Humungus||

    FRENCH producers are planning to make a porn film about the scandal surrounding former IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn and his alleged sexual assault of a New York hotel maid.
    http://www.news.com.au/breakin.....6183123016

    Porn star Roberto Malone will play the lead character, "David Sex King" while Sandra Romain will play his wife, and Katia De Lys will portray the hotel maid, The Local reported.

    The production company, My Porn Productions, is asking members of the public to help fund the project, which has the working title DXK.

    The firm calls on people to donate a minimum of €50 ($US68) toward the movie's €200,000 production costs. In return, donors will have their names included in the credits and receive an invitation to the film's premiere.
  • Warty||

    I thought Sandra Romain retired. Maybe she figures this'll be her in to politics.

  • T||

    Worked for Cicciolina.

  • ||

  • Almanian||

    "This'll be her IN"

    heh heh!

  • ||

    Is Nika Noire still working?

  • ||

    Taking the Obi-wan point of view, I'd say no, the silicone disaster that currently goes by that name killed Nika Noir.

  • Montani Semper Liberi||

    How do those companies stay in business with free sites such as RedTube and the like around?

  • Almanian||

    Wait - you can get free porn on teh interwebs?

  • Lord Humungus||

    why has no one told me about this?

  • Almanian||

    No shit! This is HUGE!

  • Lord Humungus||

    or it will be, once you start watching.

  • o2||

    only justin beeper makez me huge

  • Ice Nine||

    It would be more historically accurate if Whoopee Goldberg played the maid.

  • ||

    Yuck.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    "I was a fool to think that people would want naked pictures of Whoopi Goldberg!"

  • ||

    How so? Katia de Lys is black.

  • Ice Nine||

    How so?! Whoopi Goldberg is black and ugly. That's how.

    Or did you think DSK's maid was attractive?

  • mr simple||

    $68? That's a lot of money to pay to jerk off in a theater.

  • ||

    Isn't that Mike Vandeboegh guy supposed to be pretty cool?

  • Lord Humungus||

    3,000 more six-figure pensions in CA
    http://campaign2012.washington.....ions-calif

    More than three thousand California public employees have retired since 2010 with six-figure tax-paid pensions, even as the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) provided the pension system up to $200 million in health insurance subsidies.

    As of July 2011, 12,199 retired California employees draw six-figure pensions, according to the watchdog group, California Foundation for Fiscal Reform (CFFR), up from 9,111 in March of last year. Three of the new six-figure pensions provide the retired recipients with more than $260,000 annually, with the most generous of the three worth $271,157 per year, according to CFFR.
  • Ad Hoc Latrine||

    I posted this in another thread but will put it here as well. Matt Ridley's speech at the Royal Scottish Academy in Edinburgh. It's about scientific heresy but focuses on climate science. It's a good read.

  • Ad Hoc Latrine||

  • Gray Ghost||

    I'm exhibiting a bit of the confirmation bias he warns against in his speech; still, the following quote made a lot of sense to me:

    ...[L]et me be quite clear. I am not a “denier”. I fully accept that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, the climate has been warming and that man is very likely to be at least partly responsible. When a study was published recently saying that 98% of scientists “believe” in global warming, I looked at the questions they had been asked and realized I was in the 98%, too, by that definition, though I never use the word “believe” about myself. Likewise the recent study from Berkeley, which concluded that the land surface of the continents has indeed been warming at about the rate people thought, changed nothing.

    So what’s the problem? The problem is that you can accept all the basic tenets of greenhouse physics and still conclude that the threat of a dangerously large warming is so improbable as to be negligible, while the threat of real harm from climate-mitigation policies is already so high as to be worrying, that the cure is proving far worse than the disease is ever likely to be. Or as I put it once, we may be putting a tourniquet round our necks to stop a nosebleed.

    Thanks for the link.

  • kinnath||

    Huzzah!

  • Jersey Patriot||

    When a study was published recently saying that 98% of scientists “believe” in global warming, I looked at the questions they had been asked and realized I was in the 98%, too, by that definition, though I never use the word "believe" about myself.

    "I believe the sun is the center of the solar system" or "I believe humans are causing the earth to warm" feels like "I believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of Heaven and Earth", even though they're very different. Unfortunately, we don't have a separate word that conveys "accepts the truth of a scientific theory".

  • MNG||

    Nerds vs. Narcos: Nerds Backing Down

    Plans by the hacker collective Anonymous to expose collaborators with Mexico's bloody Zetas drug cartel – a project it dubbed "#OpCartel" – have fallen into disarray, with some retreating from the idea of confronting the killers while others say that the kidnap of an Anonymous hacker, the incident meant to have spawned the scheme, never happened.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/tech.....sfeed=true

  • ||

    Yeah no kidding.

  • Restoras||

    Hilarious.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Nerds will always back down when confronted with actual force.

  • ||

    Bull. Haven't you seen the documentary "Revenge of the Nerds"?

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    As I recall, the nerds got brave after the black guys became their bodyguards.

  • ||

    Technically the other trilams didn't show up until they were already about to get beat up by John Godman.

  • No2ConJobs||

    Again, Europe debt crisis" are mainly right-wing Media non-sense.

    For if there was an ounce of real truth about "Euro debt crisis" THEN US Dollar would have gained against Euro, but instead it is Euro that is MUCH MORE VALUABLE than US Dollar. Given the FACT that Euro since its introduction in year 2000 at 1 to 1 to US Dollar has GAINED a MIGHTY, repeat for Republican lunatics, has GAINED a MIGHTY 40% against US Dollar.

    So How much longer does Euro have to be MUCH MORE VALUABLE than US Dollar for Americans to realize that "Euro debt crisis" is non-sense and that US is suffering from Republican lunatics, HOAX Democrats and above all right-wing lyinng Media and that is why Europeans have fundamental advantages over US, such as:

    1- All Europeans have health care, because they operate health care on socialized basis just as US operates the Military on socialized basis. So while all Euopeans have health care they spend a small fraction of what US spends on health care where for example 73% of WORKING people in Texas have NO health care.

    More:
    http://www.realnewspost.com/sa.php?a=39732

  • Lord Humungus||

    I'm sure the various leaders of Europe and the EU would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

  • Abdul||

    I found it hard to believe that a drug cartel kept much of their confidential files in a web-accessible format. It's not like their employees have to go to their corporate intranet in order to register for health benefits or something.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    My assumption is that they will target legit government agencies and companies. So if a cop lets say, is working for the zetas then they would hack the cops accounts or something like that. But one criminal enterprise against another seems somewhat strange to me.

  • ||

    "Factions within Libya's revolution have pledged allegiance to local military councils, and have no plans to put down their guns and stop fighting."

    If we're gonna castigate the rebels for fighting each other, it's really important not to let our enthusiasm be mistaken for Gaddafi nostalgia.

    I don't need a Gallup poll to know that no matter how bad things get in Libya, no one except for the former regime's kleptocrats and thugs will ever be nostalgic for Gaddafi.

    In other words, it's not as if vicious dictatorships were an excellent solution to ethnic and regional conflict. ...not to this libertarian's thinking anyway.

    But listening to some of my fellow libertarians, you'd think we were supposed to bemoan the Libyan people overthrowing their own dictator--just because of America's limited involvement?

  • ||

    The problem becomes limited involvement becomes extensive involvement or total involvement. Philosophically I may be against a limited bombing campaign, but what I truly fear is our intervention, however slight, then makes us feel like we need to follow the "break it, buy it" policy of nation building, which has caused us nothing but grief and piles and piles of money we do not have. Saddam was a terrible person, but the war has hurt us more than any benefit we got from kicking him out. Same with all our worldly bases. The benefits just aren't worth the costs.

    A couple cruise missles are fine as long as thats all.

  • Leebig||

    But listening to some of my fellow libertarians, you'd think we were supposed to bemoan the Libyan people overthrowing their own dictator--just because of America's limited involvement?

    If you mean "America's killing of innocent people during air strikes for a vague objective that seemed stupid and unattainable at the time and now has been confirmed to have been stupid and unattainable" then yes.

    If you mean "America's helping bring to power people who may be more dangerous to us and to the region than Gaddafi was" then yes.

    If you mean "America's saying to every dictator in the world that if you end your WMD development programs we'll feel free to interfere in your internal conflicts a couple of years later" then yeah.

    So, in short, yeah.

  • ||

    congressman number 30 to call for Attorney General Eric Holder's resignation

    "And I still don't care, bitches. Talk to the hand."
    -Obama

  • MNG||

    Frank McCourt has agreed to sell the Dodgers, surrendering the team he fought to retain for two years and in two courts.

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/.....0881.story

    Think about how much this team has suffered from McCourt's idiosyncratic private ownership...

    Contrast that with the fact that the still undefeated and defending NFL champs are the only publicly owned team. Sure tests the idea that public ownership is always inferior to private ownership...

  • ||

    Just means he is a bad owner. The Packers were horrible in the 70s and 80s. The Yankees were horrible in the mid 1960s and early 70s when they were owned by publicly traded CBS. Then won seven world titles and eleven penents on the most idiosyncratic owner of them all.

  • Almanian||

    I dunno - I think the late Al Davis was maybe even more idiosyncratic than The Steinbrenner. Reminded me of Henry Ford toward the end - "I don't care if I'm driving my company/team to ruin - it's mine and I'll fuck it all up if I want to. Also, we're moving across the bay to another stadium....give me money."

  • MNG||

    I see the answer to my first question is yes, and that they are pretty close to a publicly traded corporation. More here:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....uby/110131

  • Almanian||

    Whatever - I don't care to have any ownership in a pro sports team (y'know, other than what we're already forced to do through confiscatory taxation to fund new stadia and stuff).

  • KDN||

    I don't have a dog in this fight; sports business is a world of bizarro economics, after all. But, LolHruby. That guy sucks.

  • MNG||

    I have to say even my liberal hackels got up when the city tried to engage in an emminent domain taking of the Raiders as intellectual property when Davis threatened to move, on the grounds it was critical to the well-being of the city. WTF?

  • MNG||

    "The Packers were horrible in the 70s and 80s."

    Were the Packers publicly owned in the 70s and 80s?

    "The Yankees were horrible in the mid 1960s and early 70s when they were owned by publicly traded CBS"

    The public ownership of the Packers is a bit different from that of a publicly traded corporation.

  • alexdroog||

    The Packers have been publicly owned since 1923.

    The 1950s, 1970s (save for 1972) and 1980s were rather forgettable for Packers fans.

    /Packers fan

  • Ad Hoc Latrine||

  • alexdroog||

    Ha! That's fantastic.

  • Ad Hoc Latrine||

    The whole series of pics is good. It's a bitch slap at some university's lame, institutionalized PC policy.

    One more.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    Hermione is smoking but the best is the Ninja.

  • ||

    If anything, what the Dodgers have suffered from is ambiguous ownership.

    For more than two years, it has been unclear who the owner of the Dodgers was going to be, and they've suffered as a result.

    As far as the Packers being publicly owned?

    I believer you're referring to the fact that part of their ownership is controlled by stock that was sold to private individuals back when they were in danger of moving the team.

    1) The private stock ownership is so small, and I believe non-voting shares--that there probably isn't much to learn from that example anyway.

    2) If the Green Bay packers were owned by their shareholders--that would NOT be an example of "public ownership" as you called it. People owning shares of stock is an example of private ownership.

    So, basically, you're full of crap--anyway you slice it.

  • MNG||

    The Packes style of ownership is a bit different from many of the companies that, say, the OWSers are complaining about.

    the team is operated as a non-profit organization
    if the Packers franchise were to have been sold, after the payment of all expenses, any remaining money would go to the Sullivan Post of the American Legion in order to build "a proper soldier's memorial." This stipulation was enacted to ensure the club remained in Green Bay and that there could never be any financial enhancement for the shareholders

    Shares of stock include voting rights, but the redemption price is minimal, no dividends are ever paid, the stock cannot appreciate in value

    No shareholder may own over 200,000 shares, a safeguard to ensure that no individual can assume control of the club

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.....ic_company

  • ||

    The Packes style of ownership is a bit different from many of the companies that, say, the OWSers are complaining about.

    Bwahahahaha!

    You're not going to be able to walk this one back, MNG. You exposed your foolishness in broad daylight and nothing will ever be the same.

  • KDN||

    Idiosyncratic is a decided understatement. Corrupt would be more accurate. Read the various posts on McCourt's shenanigans in Jonah Keri's rundown of the subject; they're mind boggling.

    http://www.grantland.com/blog/.....to-rejoice

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Oh for fuck's sake.

  • MNG||

    Indeed. Thanks for pulling Warty's weight in his absence.

  • Beloved Rev. Blue Moon||

    Oops, sorry. That response contains less than four sentences. Try reposting with more substance next time. FOURTH SENTENCE.

  • WTF||

    Stop it, CN. People with PhDs who probably make more than you are trying to have an adult conversation, with substance.

  • KDN||

    I'm upset I missed MNG's "I DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS!" moment. It must have been glorious if you're all still talking about it.

  • MNG||

    "must have been glorious if you're all still talking about it."

    Or we're talking with pathetic lives and lots of impotent lil' hate.

    If you go back to it you'll see it started with Epi saying that a lot of people here post so much they must have no or crappy jobs. I said, hey Epi you post a lot. And he said he didn't and that I did and probably didn't have a job. I replied that yes, I have a job and that I likely made more than he did.

    And the GOPartisan crowd has cherished it like a pair of Bristol Palin's panties ever since...

  • T||

    I think Andrew Sullivan is the one with a collection of Palin family undies. For a gay man he spent a lot of time obsessed with the cooters in that household.

  • J||

    OK, we get it, MNG. You have a "lil," impotent dick.

    And you hate tractor pulls.

  • Jersey Patriot||

    The Packers are a unique organization in American sports, and I think we should laud the cleverness that kept them in Green Bay and the NFL's commitment not to move them. That said, let's not get carried away: the Packers have won 2 Super Bowls since 1970. Jerry Friggin' Jones has won 3 since 1990.

  • ||

    The NFL is extremely hostile to the Green Bay style of ownership, hence the ban on such arrangements that was voted into effect shortly after the Packers went public.

    And they would move them in a second if they could get away with it legally. The NFL is concerned with one thing: money. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but let's not put a halo around Roger Goodell just yet.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Contrast that with the fact that the still undefeated and defending NFL champs are the only publicly owned team. Sure tests the idea that public ownership is always inferior to private ownership...

    I wouldn't make too much of that. Green Bay was great during the Lombardi era, but look how much they sucked in the periods between Lambeau/Lombardi and before Wolf and Holmgren took over, and laid the foundation for the team's current success.

  • ||

    Contrast that with the fact that the still undefeated and defending NFL champs are the only publicly owned team. Sure tests the idea that public ownership is always inferior to private ownership...

    The Packers are not government owned, which appears to be the tack you're taking here, cementing your status as a moron.

    They're publicly owned in the same sense that Apple is publicly owned.

  • No2ConJobs||

    Question:

    IF the Euro Crisis is REAL and not just US Media Lying CONJOB, then why has the Euro gained a MIGHTY, repeat MIGHT, KINLY, MANLY 40% against the US DOLLAR since 2000? If Euro was REAL crisis would not the Dollar be MUCH MORE VALUABLE than the EURO?

  • ||

    I think John Corzine whose company just went broke because it invested in Euro Bonds would disagree with you.

    Sell stupid somewhere else. We are all full up here.

  • No2ConJobs||

    John, WHY is the US DOLLAR worth 40% less if the Euro crisis is real? Why isn't the US Dollar MUCH MORE VALUABLE? Why is it instead that Euro is KING over American Dollar??

  • But are you free to gambol?||

    Would you be concerned about currency valuation if you were gamboling about the fruited plain?

    Gambol is king.

  • WTF||

    Troll fight!

  • Jeffrey||

    No2ConJobs is Dwight Schrute?

  • Almanian||

    WOW! Tell us more! I was not aware of this! Surely the dollar v. Euro value is the ONE TRUE MEASURE of all things! Now I can see that!

    Please - tell us MOAR, oh One of Great and Useful Knowledge!

    Or what John said.

  • KDN||

    he's absolutely right. There are only two choices in the world. Nobody is investing in anything else, anywhere.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Chocolate or Vanilla, bitchez!

  • Almanian Yellow Peril||

    Lacist!

  • Almanian||

    What we need is info on how to subscribe to his newsletter...

  • Citizen Nothing||

    In other news, the Zimbabwe Dollar is up 40% in value this year vs. the North Korean Won.

  • FlyoverCountry||

    Finally! Investment news I can use!

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    IF the Euro Crisis is REAL and not just US Media Lying CONJOB, then why has the Euro gained a MIGHTY, repeat MIGHT, KINLY, MANLY 40% against the US DOLLAR since 2000?

    If the Euro is so powerful, why are Germany and France shitting their pants that the Greeks will go back to the drachma and leave the EU?

  • Almanian||

    Also, since that pussy Bank of America backed down on implementing their $5 fee, I'm vowing NEVER to get an account with them. Impose the fee and link it to the legislation on every bill you send, you pussies! Backing off? Giving in the pressure? You SUCK.

    Who's with me boycotting these pussies?!? 5/3 and Chase forever!!

  • Almanian||

    "forever"

    ...or until they're bought out or merge or something.

    I almost typed "fail", but we know banks can't "fail" any more.

  • Ad Hoc Latrine||

    USAA. They refund ATM fees. Plus, mobile phone check deposits.

  • Ray||

    USAA is awesome, but not open to everyone.

  • sarcasmic||

    I boycotted them after I sent a credit card payment by registered mail, saw that they received it three days before it was due, and yet they still charged me a late fee because they said payment is considered to be received when they open it, not when it arrives.

  • Almanian||

    I'm just pissed they're NOT charging their customers the $5. I will never get an account with them - pussies!

  • sarcasmic||

    Try getting charged $30 because although the envelope containing your payment was delivered days before it was due, they waited a week to open it.
    Then see how pissed you are at them.

  • ||

    Kids, don't try this at home.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Yeah, that's actually a pretty common trick they employ to skim more money from people.

    Fuck BoA.

  • MNG||

    This is crazy. You'd rather pay the fee to make a political point? You're worse off in the head than Mitch McConnell...

  • Almanian||

    Yeah, cause you know how serious we are on H&R, Mung. Don't be a dumbass this early in the morning, please.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    24/7, Almanian. You know that.

  • MNG||

    I really think CN got bit by a liberal's dog on his paper route the way he's been trolling me lately.

    My dogs are always fenced CN...

  • sarcasmic||

    If he does have a paper route then he is more productive than the average liberal.

  • MNG||

    Here comes the GOPartisan nut that said that liberals should be euthanized, but of course to other GOPartisans here that is less of a deal than me saying I probably make more money than Epi.

    I wonder, is H&R really becoming LGF-lite because of a sudden influx of wingnutz because of a sitting Democratic administration, or, as I've long thought, there's actually just one or two people behind all these handles (MiNGe/sarcasmic/restoras/MWG/Alamanian/WTF/Pip/Gobbler/etc). They all post short posts with similar viewpoints and structure and unlinked handles....

  • WTF||

    Gee, a bunch of people on a libertarian website have similar viewpoints! That's so unpossible, unless they're all the same person!!111!!

  • MNG||

    I was talking about you and a some others named WTF, not the libertarians.

  • WTF||

    PWN'D!

  • sarcasmic||

    liberals should be euthanized

    You're really hung up on that.

    I figure it's because you would love to see Boosh and the rest of the Republicans hanging by their necks, but are afraid to say it openly.

  • MNG||

    "I figure it's because you would love to see Boosh and the rest of the Republicans hanging by their necks"

    I'm not mentally disturbed like you.

    I think Republicans are for the most part people who just weigh certain values differently than I do.

    Bush was not my fav President but he seemed like a decent guy, hardly evil.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    ...he seemed like a decent guy, hardly evil.

    See, here's yer problem.

  • sarcasmic||

    I'm not mentally disturbed like you.

    No, you just can't tell when someone is exaggerating, or more likely you will recognize when someone is exaggerating and insist they're serious.

    Doesn't really matter.

    It's not like your opinion matters in any way shape or form to anything or anyone of any importance on the planet.

  • sarcasmic||

    I probably make more money than Epi

    I said "more productive", not "more money".

    Most liberals I know are parasites who either work for the government or soak of government programs.

    They may make more money than the conservatives I know, but they produce nothing of value.

  • sarcasmic||

    the GOPartisan nut

    So says the Team OBummer gimme a hummer nut.

  • Pip||

    I post short posts because I am efficient. You and Herc are the long-winded outliers.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Heh heh. Yeah, MNG, somebody does seems obsessed with somebody.

  • MNG||

    Is there a thread I've posted on in the past few days where CN hasn't trolled me?

    My fav was when he popped in to say "this is the dumbest post ever, I'm not going to say why"

    Look, I really keep my dogs fenced, mine didn't bite you...

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Heh, heh. Honestly, I'm gonna have to pitch a first-person account to Field & Stream.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    It's kind of like that old joke about the fisherman who goes to "heaven," but after he gets a strike every time, without fail, over and over and over, he realizes where he actually is.

  • MNG||

    Just can't stop yourself, huh CN?

    You really need a hobby if your route ends so early.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Yep. Can't be heaven.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    (Even when I change the lure -- watch:)

    Oh, for fuck's sake!

  • Citizen Nothing||

    But I think "24/7" could prove to be a goodie, too.

  • MNG||

    Three posts in a row in respone to "you just can't stop yourself"? Yep, obsessed.

    My dog has had his shots, at least I thought so...

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Took three casts. Maybe it is heaven.

  • J||

    MNG, your defensiveness is getting shrill. Best retreat.

  • sarcasmic||

    Can't fix stupid.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    He's just a principled idealist.

  • ||

    More than three thousand California public employees have retired since 2010 with six-figure tax-paid pensions, even as the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) provided the pension system up to $200 million in health insurance subsidies.

    These selfless, diligent servants of the public weal turned their backs on the private sector and evil profit-seeking in order to make the world a better place!

  • Almanian||

    I like the overhead shots of the crowds in Oakland dispersing as the tear gas flies in. They look like ants running when you hit them with the bug spray. Cool!

  • No2ConJobs||

    Doubtless you have been reading/hearing lots of news from US Media about Europe, Greece & Euro. And as usual most of it are either lies, or twisted by the right-wing Media in US to suit their agendas. So given that I find RealNewsPost.com as one of the news sources that always posts the real news and real facts, I thought best to report here to you all about the real facts about Europe, Greece & Euro.

    Euro debt crisis is mainly US right-wing Media LIES

    "Europe Debt crisis" are mainly right-wing Media LIES and non-sense.

    Because:

    1- If there was an ounce of real truth about "Euro debt crisis" THEN US Dollar would have gained against Euro, but instead it is Euro that is MUCH MORE VALUABLE than US Dollar. Given the FACT that Euro since its introduction in year 2000 at 1 to 1 to US Dollar has GAINED a MIGHTY, repeat for Republican lunatics, has GAINED a MIGHTY % against US Dollar.

    2- Debt is KEY part of Capitalisim and in fact very good IF it is put into good use. So the Debt that Europeans have is MAINLY very good Debt since it is put into good use, it is used to invest in Eurropean people and cities from providing them with FREE health care for Taxes they pay, to providing them with FREE COllege education for Taxes they pay to giving them modern Transporation systems such as High speed Trains in Germany, France as a result of which public transporation they depend much less on polluting Middle Eastern Oil since these are electric powered. However most of US Debt is bad debt since it is wasted on unnecessary Wars and a Gargantuan Military. Which FACTS you can instantly see proven by Euro being MUCH MORE valuable than US Dollar which means the World is telling you with their money that they much rather keep their money in Europe because European economies are going to do much better than US because Europeans are investing their Debt & Taxes much more in their people.

    So How much longer does Euro have to be MUCH MORE VALUABLE than US Dollar for Americans to realize that "Euro debt crisis" is non-sense and that US is suffering from Republican lunatics, HOAX Democrats and above all a right-wing lyingn Media/Cabal and that is why Europeans have fundamental advantages over US, such as:

    1- All Europeans have health care, because they operate health care on socialized basis just as US operates the Military on socialized basis. So while all Euopeans have health care they spend a small fraction of what US spends on health care where for example 73% of working people in Texas have NO health care.

    2- European Governments do not waste the people's money on Unnecessary Wars (Vietnam war, Iraq War, etc.) or on a Gargantuan Military.

    3- Europeans have many more Socialized services, which means get much more Value for our Taxes, compared to Americans, such as:
    we can go to University practically for FREE, compare this to US where a basic BS degree can cost you an INSANE $100,000+ and more saddling you with debt for years to come even if you get a good Job.

    With the above said, some Euro weakening is in fact very good for European economies, specially weaker ones like Greece, since Euro is way over priced compared to US Dollar and other currencies. For example why would you want to go to Greece when you can goto Turkey which has just as nice a beaches as Greece but currency that is 30% less than Greece's currency.

    With that said, here is what you can Bank ON:

    US Dollar will NEVER EVER, repeat for Republican lunatics and lying right-wing Media in US, NEVER EVER, be as valuable as Euro since Europeans are not suffering from Republican lunatics, HOAX Democrats (ie Obama) and above all a right-wing (LYING) Media. As a result Europeans have the fundamental advantages that they have over US, which again simply means Europeans get much more value for their Taxes, which means Europeans operate a sensibly more portion of their economy on Socialized basis and not just the Military, Police, etc. on Socialized basis as is the case in US. Such as for example ALL Europeans like all other developed nations have Universal Nationalized health care (NHS) as a result of which while ALL Europeans have health care, they are spending 50% LESS on health care than in US which does not have something as necessary for operation of a modern society as health care for all by operating health care on socialized basis!

    If you want the American dream? Move to Denmark

    So you want a fact based Video proof of how screwed up USA is compared to most of the European countries, or countries that have much less of income gap between the Rich & Middle class? You want to see how Northern European countries, Japan, etc. that have much more of Socialized services and much more of an active Government in income distribution and creating a more fair and balance society have much better economies and societies across almost all measures, from people's life expectancy, to child mortality, to college education, to percentage of people in jail, to MUCH LOWER Unemployment, to much less Debt, etc. etc. then check out this Video:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/view/lang///id/1253

  • Lord Humungus||

    It's like Herc, minus the fun.

  • Resto Druid FTW||

    I lol'd at this^

  • T||

    And the [BRACKETS]. Those were key to the Herc oeuvre.

  • ||

    Where'd he go anyway? I miss him.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    He's saving up for more [BRACKETS).

  • Joe M||

    Congrats on earning your ignore so quickly.

  • Almanian||

    Let me add my "yup" to Lord H's assessment.

    I had such high hopes you'd be another Hercule...dashed like Humpty Dumpty.

    Damn...

  • cynical||

    How about we invest as though the debt crisis is real, and you invest as though it is a right wing lie, and then we're poor and you're rich, you can gloat? That seems fair.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Didn't read LOL

  • ||

    Sure tests the idea that public ownership is always inferior to private ownership...

    Of course it does.

  • Almanian||

    I don't lknow why, but this made me laugh out loud. HAH!

  • ||

    Can we just go ahead and change the name of the Dept of Education to Ministry of Ignorance?

  • kinnath||

    Minstry of Bliss.

  • cynical||

    No, the name is supposed to be the opposite of what it does. Ministry of Love = Torture, Ministry of Truth = Propaganda. Ministry of Education works just fine.

  • ||

    The Dodgers should be put up for sale on Craigslist. Fuck MLB.

  • MNG||

    I think it illustrates the problem of having large entities upon which many people's livelihoods depend being run by the whims of one crazy-rich ass man.

    This is one reason why I find the corporation hate on the left to be so goofy; corporations are usually a much more rational, less arbitrary business form than a sole proprietorship.

  • Supreme Generalissimo Fluffy||

    That's because their management is usually timid, easy to intimidate, and incented to avoid problems.

    But when you're dealing with one man, there's always the chance he'll wake up one morning and not want to take your shit that day.

  • MNG||

    That's right. And he might not want to take your shit for some crazy ass reason which is detrimental to the entire project.

    That's my point, collective decision making is often less arbitrary and whimiscal. When the whim is inspired it looks good, when it's stupid prejudice or what not it's less pretty...

  • Supreme Generalissimo Fluffy||

    That's my point, collective decision making is often less arbitrary and whimiscal.

    Right, but often arbitrary decision making is desperately needed.

    Corporate officers stand in a fiduciary relationship to their shareholders. That means that they are effectively obligated by the nature of their position to both rent-seek when such opportunities are available and to grovel before power when not doing so might cost money.

    There are few entities with a more craven record, in terms of standing up for their own rights, than US public corporations.

    They're good at moving capital overseas to avoid taxation and regulation. I'll give them that. But at everything else they pretty much suck.

    Look at it this way: if I'm the officer of a corporation, and my country's President comes to me and says, "We want you to manufacture poison gas that we can use to exterminate a troublesome minority group. And we'll pay top dollar!" my fiduciary duty to the corporation requires me to say yes.

    Saying no would be completely arbitrary and capricious. It would probably result in huge losses for the business. All the people who work for the business might be fucked. But it would be completely necessary.

  • T||

    Collective decisions cluster around the mean. You won't get the inspired moment of genius, but you also won't get the moment of batshit crazy. It's yet another risk avoidance mechanism by corporate America.

  • KDN||

    [O]ne crazy-rich ass man.

    Proctology magnate Hugh Jasz.

    This is one reason why I find the corporation hate on the left to be so goofy; corporations are usually a much more rational, less arbitrary business form than a sole proprietorship.

    The corporation bogeyman of the left is, by far, the worst thing about them. Whenever I'm in a conversation with or reading some article by a lefty and this trope comes up, I immediately tune out. It's literally too stupid to argue against.

  • MNG||

    I can understand the view that corporations are artificial entities created with certain characteristics that make them fine capital raising devices but perhaps less than ideal members of the polity and therefore certain restrictions on them in that area are justified (though even here many on the left forget the value of the first part, corporations raising capital and putting it to productive use is good for everyone).

    But I think to hate corporations per se and in a knee jerk way is as stupid as the reflexive and absolutist union hate I see here a lot.

  • KDN||

    I can understand the view that corporations are artificial entities created with certain characteristics that make them fine capital raising devices but perhaps less than ideal members of the polity and therefore certain restrictions on them in that area are justified (though even here many on the left forget the value of the first part, corporations raising capital and putting it to productive use is good for everyone).

    But I think to hate corporations per se and in a knee jerk way is as stupid as the reflexive and absolutist union hate I see here a lot.

    A perfectly arguable point, though I disagree with the thought that organizing in such a structure for the purpose of pursing profit singles them out for that treatment. The reason we harp so much on unions when the subject comes up is that they are substantively the same thing, though initially set up for a different purpose (as are non-profits, governments, etc).

    I personally hate some unions (the CWA and NJEA are at the top of the list), but that has more to do with their conduct than their existence. Regarding politics, I simply think that any restrictions on corporations should extend to their assorted cousins. It's awfully silly that IBEW Local X can endorse and campaign for certain pols without anyone batting an eye or thinking anything is amiss whereas Verizon would be excoriated if they did the same.

  • ||

    I think it illustrates the problem of having large entities upon which many people's livelihoods depend being run by the whims of one crazy-rich ass man.

    If you don't want to take that risk, don't choose a livelihood that depends on him.

  • GILMORE||

    "When it comes time to saving the Constitution, that means some people gotta die,"

    Oh, crap.

    T-minus 10 secs before this becomes cited as the normal thought-process of constitutional libertarians.

    At least our new breed of geriatric wanna-be terrorists is as feckless as the jihadi mooslem variety.

  • Supreme Generalissimo Fluffy||

    The same thought process is reflected every time someone takes the oath to join the military.

  • T||

    The Constitution can only be saved by blood, Fluffy. Blood makes the ink flow!

    Or something. It's been over 20 years since basic, so I may be misremembering things.

  • General James M. Scott||

    Hey! I had to destroy the Constitution in order to save it!

  • ||

    """When it comes time to saving the Constitution, that means some people gotta die,"""

    Yeah, when was the last time troops die actually defend this country instead of this county's interests.

  • ||

    I think it illustrates the problem of having large entities upon which many people's livelihoods depend being run by the whims of one crazy-rich ass man.

    This is intrinsically paternalistic nonsense.

    And my point about MLB is this: Fuck those guys. Why should MLB get final approval of the buyer? The team should go to the highest bidder.

  • MNG||

    "Why should MLB get final approval of the buyer?"

    Because one team can't play itself and make much money?

  • T||

    I dunno. It seems like the Internet has lots of sites that make money when people play with themselves.

  • Jersey Patriot||

    And my point about MLB is this: Fuck those guys. Why should MLB get final approval of the buyer?

    Why can't you serve Whoppers in your McDonalds franchise? Same thing.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Why should MLB get final approval of the buyer?

    Anti-trust exemption.

  • ||

    Freedom of association. If the team doesn't like the terms they can leave MLB and play in a different league.

    Why should every team in the American League have to spend three or more days playing in Detroit?

  • ||

    Because one team can't play itself and make much money?

    I shouldn't bother, but- the "team" is composed of assets which include "membership" in the league and a schedule.

    What you really meant to say is, "This exclusive club of billionaires, who have carved out for themselves an exemption to normal anti-trust law, derive great self-satisfaction from their ability to behave like a collective of tinpot dictators."

  • ||

    And membership in the league comes with strings attached. This is contract law 101.

  • Warty||

    Substantive discourse
    Means you agree with my views
    Swimming in cash vat

  • Cliché Bandit||

    MNG you dumb douchebag
    I read the long diatribes
    dumber now I am

    And Warty, LINERICKS!!!

    MNG who says he has a PHD
    Comments with more substance than Warty
    He enters debate
    Becomes quite irate
    And stops to drink his own pee

  • Cliché Bandit||

    MNG is an ass of great proportion
    He comments with much self contortion
    When John comes along
    And signs his own song
    We all wish the thread had an abortion.

  • Lord Humungus||

    +1 Poetry Grant

  • Warty||

    Hickory, dickory, dock
    Right as a fucking stopped clock
    Has a PhD
    Much better than thee
    Hickory, dickory, dock

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I see Righthaven continues to make the news. Bankruptcy on the horizon.

    But even as the company has refused to pay Hoehn, it has continued paying attorneys to litigate other cases in Nevada, Colorado and South Carolina.
  • Kim ||

    I like him

  • Nike Dunk Low||

    thanks

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